NationStates Jolt Archive

Why do almost all people feel the need to be correct on everything all the time? Is it jsut the self-esteem boost, or is there more to it than that?Even when faced with utter refution, most will still continue on, wilfully shutting out the anachronisms of their beliefs. Is all of that really necessary?

They fear loosing...

Except for Buben, n one else seems to have an answer. Dang, I was hoping maybe we could reach some sort of conclusion.

Ever consider that some people might actually like people to go through life something other than ignorant...?

I don't know about you, but I like knowing what the hell I'm doing...

i would say the "i am better then you - i win" feeling. to pretty much everyone, thats a damn fine feeling. much better then the "your right, your better then me" feeling.

i realize this makes no sense whatsoever, and its worded poorly at that, but i like this thread and felt i should contribute something.

Why do almost all people feel the need to be correct on everything all the time? Is it jsut the self-esteem boost, or is there more to it than that?Even when faced with utter refution, most will still continue on, wilfully shutting out the anachronisms of their beliefs. Is all of that really necessary?

Easy. We don't want to be compromised by other people on that kind of level. Well, most of us don't. Not all people are like that. It's human nature to hold your ideas to a higher regard than someone else's, and it's only natural that many of us will express this. Often colorfully.

God knows I'm no exception. It runs in my family; you can literally show my grandfather volumes of information against his objective and he'll just get more obstinate about it. I think it's great.

Ever consider that some people might actually like people to go through life something other than ignorant...?

I don't know about you, but I like knowing what the hell I'm doing...
So always stick to your guns and damn the expense, eh?

You're mistaking someone who seeks to win a force of argument contest for someone who wants to be actually right.

So always stick to your guns and damn the expense, eh?

No.

Always seek the truth, even if it proves you to have been completely wrong before.

Easy. We don't want to be compromised by other people on that kind of level. Well, most of us don't. Not all people are like that. It's human nature to hold your ideas to a higher regard than someone else's, and it's only natural that many of us will express this. Often colorfully.

God knows I'm no exception. It runs in my family; you can literally show my grandfather volumes of information against his objective and he'll just get more obstinate about it. I think it's great.

Thats my thoughts on the matter as well. Kind of an innate superiority complex in us all.

No.

Always seek the truth, even if it proves you to have been completely wrong before.
Oh, I misunderstood your post, then.

Oh, I misunderstood your post, then.

Heh, nice demonstration of my point.

Being right, I feel, is much more important than convincing people that you're right, and is much more important than letting people think they're right, or convincing yourself that you're right.

Screw warm fuzzies, the truth is sexy.

Heh, nice demonstration of my point.


Quit making fun of me! :mad: :D

Quit making fun of me! :mad: :D

It was technically a compliment. :D

Actually, I hate being right all the time - I'd rather not step over the debris and state to a pair of glassy eyes "Toldja so".

Then again, who listens? :(

I don't really feel the need to be right all the time. I just am.

On a side note, if I don't know, I shut my trap before I make myself wrong.

Actually, I hate being right all the time - I'd rather not step over the debris and state to a pair of glassy eyes "Toldja so".

Then again, who listens? :(

Yeah. I usually get that feeling when I predict one of my friends is about to do something stupid which will later cause them grief.

I've started keeping my predictions to myself lately to keep from getting the "I know you told me" glare.

I always try to understand points of view of those with different belives. I show them few problems with their ideas and then listen what they have to say. I'm not perfect but I next try to convice them that I'm not right and they are not either. The problem is that every debate between "liberals" and "socialists, "atheists" and "theists" or "authoritartians" and "libertarians" always ends on the "war of words", that means that every one is arguing about "freedom", "good", "truth", "God", etc. Besides there are few girls and guys that aren't really ignorant, like "science is better than religion". Ok, different belives, different points of view... But sadly some just don't accept that they can EVER be wrong... Well, I'm not an exception but I'm trying to be open-minded.

What's annoying is that it's very hard to get people to agree on definitions.

I, for instance, consider myself open-minded.

I've pondered the possibilities of more religions than the average Joe has heard of.

I've considered various forms of thought from throughout history.

I even started out, as a kid, going to church.

People who want to think I'm a 'poor lost soul' are still going to assume I'm close-minded because I can note that various things are logically impossible, and that there's no reason to believe they exist.

For too many, being open-minded means agreeing with them.

Some interesting points in this thread.

I personally hate being right all the time except when it comes to spelling. I love pointing out when the teacher's got it wrong. :p

Call me weird. I just do.

I think people don't like to be seen as wrong.

Broadcast News (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092699/maindetails) (1987)

Paul Moore: It must be nice to always believe you know better, to always think you're the smartest person in the room.

Jane Craig: No. It's awful.

'nuff said.

Yep.

Especially since everyone calls you a cynic. Even if all you are is right.

And nothing is more depressing than not having anyone you can talk to without having to dumb it down.

I am so smart, I make myself sick.

Why do almost all people feel the need to be correct on everything all the time? Is it jsut the self-esteem boost, or is there more to it than that?Even when faced with utter refution, most will still continue on, wilfully shutting out the anachronisms of their beliefs. Is all of that really necessary?

Because a person's beliefs carry a long way into the extension of one's personality in "the real world", a.k.a. contact with other people. Our beliefs are a simulacrum, of sorts, of our own person (mind, body, and soul). Therefore, any given point many people try to make is a part of him/her. Admitting one is wrong takes a great deal of inner strength - many people lack that strength. They build up their world, their personal niche around certain beliefs they hold up to be true. If someone comes along and tries to dismantle that world, the world that person literally put blood, sweat and tears in, most people go into a denial fase, be it agressively or rather defensively. So, when fighting an argument, one must consider that one is NOT attacking "just a faulty argument", but quite possibly something a certain person used to construct his/her entire world around.
For instance, when peole who strongly believe in God get to hear all day long that "there is no God", or "the Bible i quite a good romantic novel" they feel attacked on a personal level - hence, they react quite fiercely. The other way round: I personally, as an "evolutionist" (for lack of a better term), get pissed out of my socks because some bozo wants to refrain children from hearing "the truth about the world" (aka evolution) and instead have them reciting all them damn Genesis parts that make man master of the world etc. etc. - I feel that as personal attack, and even more: as an attack of the world's integrity. Therefore, debates are not just "debates", they are symbolic battles which hold a very different value for almost everyone involved - and analogically; arguments are not just "words", they are weapons, in some cases like knives, in some cases like atomic bombs, and they should be wielded accordingly: with very great care and compassion.

Anyway, that's my opinion, that's my observance on (human) nature.

Well said, Druid.

I have dedicated my life to being as wrong as possible in my own special way. :D

Well said, Druid.

Seconded. Damn! Druid, you wrote that like a poem. I've heard the argument before, even with many of the same terms, but not quite so flowingly. Excellent. Save that to your hard drive; its a keeper. :)

Why do almost all people feel the need to be correct on everything all the time? Is it jsut the self-esteem boost, or is there more to it than that?Even when faced with utter refution, most will still continue on, wilfully shutting out the anachronisms of their beliefs. Is all of that really necessary?

It doesn't matter if you're right or not. It only matters if you have the power and influence to make your opinion count, (whether that be as a politician, religious leader, activist what have you). You can debate on NS all day long but it's like Cnut trying to drive back the sea, you're not going to convince anyone to reconsider their opinions and accept they are wrong.

That's my two pence....

Seconded. Damn! Druid, you wrote that like a poem. I've heard the argument before, even with many of the same terms, but not quite so flowingly. Excellent. Save that to your hard drive; its a keeper. :)

Thanks folks, you got me blushing ;)

Anyhow, now just have to get my dissertation to read just as fluidly :p

So, when fighting an argument, one must consider that one is NOT attacking "just a faulty argument", but quite possibly something a certain person used to construct his/her entire world around.
Generally you are right about the perception of ones world. The problem is that this perception doesn't correspond to the Truth - absolut and ultimate.
Few months ago after I reached "ego loss" level during one of my meditations I started thinking about two options: everyone is wrong OR everyone is right. Everything is truht or everything is false. Just admit that you aren't god-like all-knowing creature. Today I belive that there is something like "ultimately true reality" but it cannot be described by words. When you use some system, idea, even a word (I like using "God" for example) you are closing from the reality. Humans are only one of many species. The only that we know of - that mastered language. Now, does it mean that our language is perfect at describing ones reality? No. Does it mean that it's possible to describe our reality with mathematics, physics, etc.? No. Why so? History of science - you will always find "more" in our reality - more details, more data but NEVER everything.
My friend once said that everytime he's talking with someone about "God" and that person doesn't accept that concept - he uses "the One" to label the whole universe. He's smart enough to use words that others accept. It's shame that I too often fail on that one.

Well... One can say "yeah, you're the all-knowing guy, he?". Nope. But I'm willing to debate and my world-view is VERY flexible and open to changes. For example 2 years ago I would rather burn my cross than wear it.

I don't use words as arms - I use them as tools - to shape our reality - not to enforce my own.

Happy, cheerful day to everyone!

Generally you are right about the perception of ones world. The problem is that this perception doesn't correspond to the Truth - absolut and ultimate.
*snip*
I don't use words as arms - I use them as tools - to shape our reality - not to enforce my own.

That's what I meant as well. Reality is always subjective - and constructed, using personal beliefs. And the primary tool for that, language, is, indeed, always a personal construct - however much it may be a socialized concept (readings on the linguistics might clarify this - I'm thinking Lévi-Strauss, Bourdieu, and others who seem to be escaping me know).
And I, myself, always strive to be tolerant in the useage of arguments because I know that they may "harm" others. The fact that you do not use "words as arms" does not mean that some other person perceives it the same way. To that other person, your "words" might very well be "arms", your "argument" might very well be "an attack". That's why I advocate compassion and tolerance.

The fact that you do not use "words as arms" does not mean that some other person perceives it the same way.
Very good point. I think that the real problem is not "Christians vs. Atheists" or "Communists vs. Capitalists", etc. People just don't want to notice meta-levels of this. WHAT is freedom? WHAT is an ideology? WHY some people belive in God? WHAT is a human-being anyway? That kind of questions. Not just shallow "my faith/ideology/science is better than yours!".
I think that there are few kinds of persons:
* those who seek but don't think they know.
* those who seek but think they know.
* those who don't seek but don't think they know.
* those who don't seek but think they know.

I admit that I'm this second type. I've made a pool just out of curiosity.
Click here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=419082

Broadcast News (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092699/maindetails) (1987)

Paul Moore: It must be nice to always believe you know better, to always think you're the smartest person in the room.

Jane Craig: No. It's awful.

'nuff said.


The point made yet again.

Apparently getting ripped to shread in a debate has made you bitter and nonsensical. Good luck with that.

Just because you are sarcastic and make personal attacks when you don't understand another person's point of view doesn't mean you have "won" a debate. Perhaps if you were more interested in understanding opposing views instead of "being right all the time" you'd be less aguementative.

Ahhh. Somebunny needs a hug. :fluffle:


I accept your apology.

Why do almost all people feel the need to be correct on everything all the time? Is it jsut the self-esteem boost, or is there more to it than that?Even when faced with utter refution, most will still continue on, wilfully shutting out the anachronisms of their beliefs. Is all of that really necessary?
selfesteem, yes, superiority complex, fear of losing control, etc.

I accept your apology.

<sigh>

Just knock it off.

If you wish to debate me on issue, go for it.

But your habit of posting in various threads that you don't like me is approaching griefing.

And is juvenile.

Grow up.

<sigh>

Just knock it off.

If you wish to debate me on issue, go for it.

But your habit of posting in various threads that you don't like me is approaching griefing.

And is juvenile.

Grow up.


Why are you so compelled to attack? For a second there, I thought that you were making a genuine attempt to be real and apologize for your behavior...obviously, I was wrong.

I don't know you...all I know is your manner of name-calling and sarcasm (which is just a form of anger).

Your drive to conquer in a "debate" is telling....can't you just listen a little without trying to shred people?

If you mean in the forum of debate, it tends to be somewhat significant to actually have facts on your side. It would mean there is veracity and understanding (usually) to your POV or POA, but i've noticed as well that a point of an argument is really a matter of discourse and play and not so much fact, especially around here.
I personally endeavour to be right about things without the need for the approval of others - i simply desire STRONGLY to have a better understanding of myself and the <universe> i interact with on whatever level(s).