NationStates Jolt Archive

What are your thoughts on the blue state lovers in this country? Please, take a moment to let us know....

What are your thoughts on the blue state lovers in this country? Please, take a moment to let us know....

The left and right each have thier good ideas. I think folks who ither go all left or all right are tools.

I still find it amusing that the 'left wing' (if you can call the democrat party that) party is blue, and the right wing (or further right wing) party is red. Everytime a 'red state' is mentioned the obvious comes to mind.

What a balanced poll...
So the left is either a menace, a threat, misguided or uninformed?

I still find it amusing that the 'left wing' (if you can call the democrat party that) party is blue, and the right wing (or further right wing) party is red. Everytime a 'red state' is mentioned the obvious comes to mind.

:D

Sorta like Mt-tau's flag?

Great poll man.

Misguided.

This poll is completely worthless. It's like saying who do you want as president? George W. Bush, George w. Bush, Big George W, or Georgeyboy.

a good strong one-party system is clearly what this country needs.

This poll is completely worthless. It's like saying who do you want as president? George W. Bush, George w. Bush, Big George W, or Georgeyboy.

Yeah, I thought about some extra options:
-Ignorant
-Spiteful
-Hateful
-Despicable
-Unprincipled
-Immoral
-Disgusting
-Disturbing
-Deranged
-The super happy fuzzy swell rabbits of joyland

None of the above I guess.

I'd say that we're a menace, though, only to your mom.

This scientific poll definitvely proves (as of right now) that 57% of the population believes liberals are misguided...

I'd say that we're a menace, though, only to your mom.

LMAO; poor mom...

This scientific poll definitvely proves (as of right now) that 57% of the population believes liberals are misguided...

LOL, sorry, my 'guide' abandoned me and I had no way of knowing which was the right path. :p

What a balanced poll...
So the left is either a menace, a threat, misguided or uninformed?
I was a bit puzzled there too.

To liberal or to conservative = bad.

I for one absolutely despise politics since all it is is backstabbing, lying and bullshiting.

LOL, sorry, my 'guide' abandoned me and I had no way of knowing which was the right path. :p

I'm in Portland right now too, Cumulo; wanna get married? (Unless, of course, yer a dude; gay marriage is wrong. Wanna shack up?)

I'm in Portland right now too, Cumulo; wanna get married? (Unless, of course, yer a dude; gay marriage is wrong. Wanna shack up?)

Unfortunately for you, I'm a dude. And, oddly enough, gay marriage wasn't wrong here some months ago. But then, it became wrong again shortly thereafter. :D

Unfortunately for you, I'm a dude. And, oddly enough, gay marriage wasn't wrong here some months ago. But then, it became wrong again shortly thereafter. :D

I want to say I was just kidding about that shacking up thing (unless you're interested. Just kidding! (Unless you are.))

I want to say I was just kidding about that shacking up thing (unless you're interested. Just kidding! (Unless you are.))

LOL. I'm still living with my parents, they'd wonder where I went. :p

Yeah, I thought about some extra options:
-Ignorant
-Spiteful
-Hateful
-Despicable
-Unprincipled
-Immoral
-Disgusting
-Disturbing
-Deranged
-The super happy fuzzy swell rabbits of joyland
Wow what an amazing open minded individual you are :rolleyes: Because no one of the other side could be anything other then derogatory options

Close minded people are horrible. They think they're always right, automatically hate the other side and so on and so forth.

Close minded people are horrible. They think they're always right, automatically hate the other side and so on and so forth.
They got them on all sides ... it really is a shame ... so much we can learn from eachother they really are missing out on a lot of things by automaticaly dismissing the opposition

They got them on all sides ... it really is a shame ... so much we can learn from eachother they really are missing out on a lot of things by automaticaly dismissing the opposition
/agree

Hmmm... what, there could be no positive selections on this poll? We must focus on the negative? How very sad. :(

Hmmm... what, there could be no positive selections on this poll? We must focus on the negative? How very sad. :(
It's the way the extreme lefts and rights think. They only see the negative with their opposing side. It's awful

Hmmm... what, there could be no positive selections on this poll? We must focus on the negative? How very sad. :(
I predict a long disapointing life from someone who cant come to grips with what their opposition is and learn to LEARN from them
Life will always be a battle to them rather then a learning experience ... its going to be a long life

What American Left?

Even Nader is pretty far right.
You yanks don't even have universal healthcare.
Or the metric system.
I thought I'd throw that in because I don't really know what's wrong with your backwards country.

-Deranged
-The super happy fuzzy swell rabbits of joyland

Their the ones I would have picked, happy happy joy joy when you agree with them, and deranged when you disagree.
Its a combination of cowardice encouraged by poor values taught by parents, who dont value courage in their kids, as they have none themselves, and way, way too much drug taking.
But for the poll, I chose, misguided, as despite all my frustration with the naive and too laidback values of modern western youth, I truly feel sorry for them, and want to help.

What American Left?

Even Nader is pretty far right.
You yanks don't even have universal healthcare.
Or the metric system.
I thought I'd throw that in because I don't really know what's wrong with your backwards country.

Um thats why it is the "american left" as left of standard for AMERICA not the world as a whole

They may not be "left" by your standards but they are "left" by american standards (which was said)

This thread wins the covetted Most Retarded Poll of the Month award. Kudos!

What American Left?

Even Nader is pretty far right.
You yanks don't even have universal healthcare.
Or the metric system.
I thought I'd throw that in because I don't really know what's wrong with your backwards country.

When the hell did the metric system become liberal and the english system conservative?

This thread wins the covetted Most Retarded Poll of the Month award. Kudos!
just month?

just month?

The amount of retarded polls on NS necessitates a monthly award.

Their the ones I would have picked, happy happy joy joy when you agree with them, and deranged when you disagree.
Its a combination of cowardice encouraged by poor values taught by parents, who dont value courage in their kids, as they have none themselves, and way, way too much drug taking.
But for the poll, I chose, misguided, as despite all my frustration with the naive and too laidback values of modern western youth, I truly feel sorry for them, and want too help..
Laidback values? My mom and dad I'd say are pretty serious liberals (and I'm in California) if i get a C on a test my mom will get pissed. My mom encourages me to do good in school and everything else I do and so does my dad. Having really high values is bad man. Calm down, lay back the uptightness and think about stuff. (BTW I don't do any drugs and neither do my parents). Why are all left wings classified as potheaded hippies and all right wings classified as complete nutjobs? Because we always need someone to hate, someone to attack, someone to kill. Humanity, in reality sucks complete ass. We always are killing each other, because basically, it's how a human is programmed. Our world is full of people hating each other bombing each other and killing each other. Why? Because they're different. Once again I say, humans have to be one of the lowest races ever.

Their the ones I would have picked, happy happy joy joy when you agree with them, and deranged when you disagree.
Its a combination of cowardice encouraged by poor values taught by parents, who dont value courage in their kids, as they have none themselves, and way, way too much drug taking.
But for the poll, I chose, misguided, as despite all my frustration with the naive and too laidback values of modern western youth, I truly feel sorry for them, and want to help.

So, I've never done illegal drugs in my life (well, I've drank alcohol underage. Wine, with my uncle's family, and it was disgusting), I don't smoke, and I don't plan on drinking (alcohol is disgusting). My parents aren't "drug taking" either.

I would appreciate if you were going to insult anybody, it not be my parents.

When the hell did the metric system become liberal and the english system conservative?

;) Because the metric system is smart. :)

I only kid, I just find it funny when the term 'liberal' is a cuss on FOX because it's so leftwing to Bill O'Reilly. I'm just worried - what happens when Bush hears that the Liberals are in power in Canada?

The actual 'left' or just 'less Right' of the USA doesn't seem to have a spine.

Come on - you could have recounted in Ohio.
Kerry also heavily looks like the father (not grandfather) from the Munsters.

America , you guys make me nervous you gun totin nutters :sniper:

You are ruled by the media and your influence is affecting the rest of the free thinking world at a pace that is scarry . You shoot more americans yourselves than have ever been killed in any war you may have started on piss weak evidence and whilst I have enormous sympaty for the victims of Sept 11 the reaction by your leaders ever since stinks

How on earth did dubbya get reelected ????

Their the ones I would have picked, happy happy joy joy when you agree with them, and deranged when you disagree.
Its a combination of cowardice encouraged by poor values taught by parents, who dont value courage in their kids, as they have none themselves, and way, way too much drug taking.
But for the poll, I chose, misguided, as despite all my frustration with the naive and too laidback values of modern western youth, I truly feel sorry for them, and want to help.
Another long life in the making ... thoes who do not understand their oponents strength are not likly to learn from them ... pity really

America , you guys make me nervous you gun totin nutters :sniper:

You are ruled by the media and your influence is affecting the rest of the free thinking world at a pace that is scarry . You shoot more americans yourselves than have ever been killed in any war you may have started on piss weak evidence and whilst I have enormous sympaty for the victims of Sept 11 the reaction by your leaders ever since stinks

How on earth did dubbya get reelected ????

You sound like a Greenday Album.

Except more Lyrical.

America , you guys make me nervous you gun totin nutters :sniper:

You are ruled by the media and your influence is affecting the rest of the free thinking world at a pace that is scarry . You shoot more americans yourselves than have ever been killed in any war you may have started on piss weak evidence and whilst I have enormous sympaty for the victims of Sept 11 the reaction by your leaders ever since stinks

How on earth did dubbya get reelected ????
Because we're America and think that since we're fatter, stupider and ruled by celebrities and the media we can do whatever the hell we want to without any retribution. That is why Bush got re-elected. Seriously, I'm thinking of moving to Britain once I'm older and done with college (I'm 14 atm).

Ruled by suits, run by idiots and surrounded by crazy asses, proud to be a fuckin American.

You sound like a Greenday Album.

Except more Lyrical.
The new Green Day album really sucked. I like the message they're trying to get across but the album was really awful.

The new Green Day album really sucked. I like the message they're trying to get across but the album was really awful.
There were a few select songs that I found alright but as a whole yeah not a fan of that album

There were a few select songs that I found alright but as a whole yeah not a fan of that album
Holiday/Boulevard Of Broken Dreams was the only one I really liked.

Holiday/Boulevard Of Broken Dreams was the only one I really liked.
That that was my fav too (though over played) getin back to soundin a bit like good riddance

Im really glad that my political statement managed to get diverted onto the good and bad of a greenday album :headbang:

There were a few select songs that I found alright but as a whole yeah not a fan of that album

If I hear Boulevard of Broken Dreams one more time on the radio - I'm going to slit my wrist with Tucker Carlson's bowtie.

I still find it amusing that the 'left wing' (if you can call the democrat party that) party is blue, and the right wing (or further right wing) party is red. Everytime a 'red state' is mentioned the obvious comes to mind.
I think that was the liberal media's way to trying to turn the tables on conservatives...since, in the past, communism was always "red" (i.e. Red China, The Red Menace [Russia], Red Commies, etc.). Personally, I think it makes sense, though. All of us "red"neck conservatives vs. the elitest "blue"bloods on the left. :D

As to the topic: I think the left and right mostly agree on basic ideals...what we disagree on is how to achieve those ideals.

Topic: Freedom

Conservatives: Less government/laws = more freedom.

Liberals: More government/laws = more freedom.

Of course, I'm conservative, so I'll never understand how more laws = more freedom. ;)

BTW, I voted "Misguided".

Im really glad that my political statement managed to get diverted onto the good and bad of a greenday album :headbang:
More worthwhile then the origional debate

I think that was the liberal media's way to trying to turn the tables on conservatives...since, in the past, communism was always "red" (i.e. Red China, The Red Menace [Russia], Red Commies, etc.). Personally, I think it makes sense, though. All of us "red"neck conservatives vs. the elitest "blue"bloods on the left. :D

As to the topic: I think the left and right mostly agree on basic ideals...what we disagree on is how to achieve those ideals.

Topic: Freedom

Conservatives: Less government/laws = more freedom.

Liberals: More government/laws = more freedom.

Of course, I'm conservative, so I'll never understand how more laws = more freedom. ;)

BTW, I voted "Misguided".

Overly simplified strawman

Liberals think that select laws will remove some of the institutanalized discrimination ... they dont want laws for the sake of laws rather to iron out some of the built in issues (not saying it is always the best stratagy but its some of the way they see it)

I think that was the liberal media's way to trying to turn the tables on conservatives...since, in the past, communism was always "red" (i.e. Red China, The Red Menace [Russia], Red Commies, etc.). Personally, I think it makes sense, though. All of us "red"neck conservatives vs. the elitest "blue"bloods on the left. :D

As to the topic: I think the left and right mostly agree on basic ideals...what we disagree on is how to achieve those ideals.

Topic: Freedom

Conservatives: Less government/laws = more freedom.

Liberals: More government/laws = more freedom.

Of course, I'm conservative, so I'll never understand how more laws = more freedom. ;)

BTW, I voted "Misguided".

I take issue with the "elitest 'blue'bloods on the left"... since when are leftists for elitism? And though there are some rich liberals, there are also some rich conservatives.

Of course, it was a sort of joke, so perhaps I shouldn't be taking it so seriously. :rolleyes:

This is true I suppose . USA is like a runaway steamroller , aint much gong to stop it now so f%#$ it we may as well post about the greenday album . about as pointless as chewing gum to solve a maths problem :rolleyes:

I think that was the liberal media's way to trying to turn the tables on conservatives...since, in the past, communism was always "red" (i.e. Red China, The Red Menace [Russia], Red Commies, etc.). Personally, I think it makes sense, though. All of us "red"neck conservatives vs. the elitest "blue"bloods on the left. :D

As to the topic: I think the left and right mostly agree on basic ideals...what we disagree on is how to achieve those ideals.

Topic: Freedom

Conservatives: Less government/laws = more freedom.

Liberals: More government/laws = more freedom.

Of course, I'm conservative, so I'll never understand how more laws = more freedom. ;)

BTW, I voted "Misguided".
Kind of interesting how the tables have turned these days. Bush is a Republican. Republicans are Conservatives. Observe. Now we have a LARGER government than before, laws that DAMAGE our freedoms, pointless laws and complete idiocy. I find it really hard how people think Bush is doing a good job.

This is true I suppose . USA is like a runaway steamroller , aint much gong to stop it now so f%#$ it we may as well post about the greenday album . about as pointless as chewing gum to solve a maths problem :rolleyes:
Yup back to the important debate. The older Green Day stuff I find to be a lot better.

This is true I suppose . USA is like a runaway steamroller , aint much gong to stop it now so f%#$ it we may as well post about the greenday album . about as pointless as chewing gum to solve a maths problem :rolleyes:
That has nothing to do with it I was talking about the fact that the origional poll was setup so bias to make it absurd and fairly useless

That has nothing to do with it I was talking about the fact that the origional poll was setup so bias to make it absurd and fairly useless
Yup

As to the topic: I think the left and right mostly agree on basic ideals...what we disagree on is how to achieve those ideals.

Topic: Freedom

Conservatives: Less government/laws = more freedom.

Liberals: More government/laws = more freedom.

Of course, I'm conservative, so I'll never understand how more laws = more freedom. ;)



I almost hate to bring this into discussion, but how about the Patriot Act? From what I can understand from the right-wing rhetoric, all of these laws/restrictions/etc are supposed to make us safer and free from terrorists. I'd say freedom is the ultimate goal there. Thus, according to the President and his friends, in this case, more laws=more freedom. Hmm.

And another topic I hesitate to bring up, but if conservatives are so hard up for less government/laws, why all the hoopla with abortion? Theoretically, conservatives should be against a law outlawing abortion, since that's just another restriction on the lives of private citizens. Right?

Just a thought. Or two.

Signed,
A Southern Commie Socialist Christian

That has nothing to do with it I was talking about the fact that the origional poll was setup so bias to make it absurd and fairly useless

Yeah. Sorry I hijacked Mirco's rather insightful post. ;) I just think that the whole topic is trite and banal by now. This arguement can go on forever when you have all the options of:
"Misguided"
and everyother negative buzzword usually reserved to explain why Bill O'Reilly can tell you to shut up before every commercial break and still get away with it.

That has nothing to do with it I was talking about the fact that the origional poll was setup so bias to make it absurd and fairly useless

Living in the good ol USA Im guessing you dont see the irony that we can see from the outside . It isnt the poll thats absurd it is that internally you seem to see alternative options when over the last 50 years guns have gotten completely out of control and shootings are normal , your kids feel its necessary to go to school and kill everyone they can . Your government (whoever it is) leaves you to fend for yourselves and does not care for the sick , poor sick people probably dont vote anyhow . Your legal system is more like winning the lottery if someone dares to be politically incorrect in any way or god forbid give you a poor haircut . AND my country is heading blindly down a near identical path

There are good points to the USA and I have friends from there but your "system" and the arrogance of your leaders is reflective of the people

So, I've never done illegal drugs in my life (well, I've drank alcohol underage. Wine, with my uncle's family, and it was disgusting), I don't smoke, and I don't plan on drinking (alcohol is disgusting). My parents aren't "drug taking" either.
I would appreciate if you were going to insult anybody, it not be my parents.

Yes well, your one of the few, I guess.
I wasnt insulting anyone either, todays youth do take too many drugs, even more than their 80's parents, and even probably more than their hippy grandparents.
Taking any drugs is bad, and Im talking from experience.
I dont even drink coffee now!

Living in the good ol USA Im guessing you dont see the irony that we can see from the outside . It isnt the poll thats absurd it is that internally you seem to see alternative options when over the last 50 years guns have gotten completely out of control and shootings are normal , your kids feel its necessary to go to school and kill everyone they can . Your government (whoever it is) leaves you to fend for yourselves and does not care for the sick , poor sick people probably dont vote anyhow . Your legal system is more like winning the lottery if someone dares to be politically incorrect in any way or god forbid give you a poor haircut . AND my country is heading blindly down a near identical path

There are good points to the USA and I have friends from there but your "system" and the arrogance of your leaders is reflective of the people
Nice little rant that really does not have much to do about my comment nor the origional topic ... you can step down off your soap box now this is not the discussion at hand

Your diversion seems less productive then our discussing green day songs ... I think we should go back to that

Yes well, your one of the few, I guess.
I wasnt insulting anyone either, todays youth do take too many drugs, even more than their 80's parents, and even probably more than their hippy grandparents.
Taking any drugs is bad, and Im talking from experience.
I dont even drink coffee now!
I'm part of today's youth the only drug I take I guess you could say is caffeine from sodas, and not in the weird addict manner where you nearly kill yourself. Friend of mine from Japan knows this guy who nearly died from to much caffeine.

Okay I'll get back in my box , what was the question :D

Yes well, your one of the few, I guess.
I wasnt insulting anyone either, todays youth do take too many drugs, even more than their 80's parents, and even probably more than their hippy grandparents.
Taking any drugs is bad, and Im talking from experience.
I dont even drink coffee now!

You basically said that liberals' parents are druggies.

I'm a liberal, and my parents aren't druggies. If you don't mean for something to be taken literally, please don't post it in such a matter-of-fact way.


I agree, though. Drug use is out of hand.

Laidback values? My mom and dad I'd say are pretty serious liberals (and I'm in California) if i get a C on a test my mom will get pissed. My mom encourages me to do good in school and everything else I do and so does my dad. Having really high values is bad man. Calm down, lay back the uptightness and think about stuff. (BTW I don't do any drugs and neither do my parents). Why are all left wings classified as potheaded hippies and all right wings classified as complete nutjobs? Because we always need someone to hate, someone to attack, someone to kill. Humanity, in reality sucks complete ass. We always are killing each other, because basically, it's how a human is programmed. Our world is full of people hating each other bombing each other and killing each other. Why? Because they're different. Once again I say, humans have to be one of the lowest races ever.

Having high values is not bad at all, if more people had them, western society wouldnt be in such a mess.

And no I wont calm down and join your club of happy happy nice warm fuzzy feelings joy joy rabbits, Id rather be realistic, and not sweep todays problems under the carpet, just so as not to unenhance group collective calm, isnt that how you modern kids say it?

And I agree with the last statement on humans, like a famous person once said, 'the more I get to know people, the more I like my dog better'.

Having high values is not bad at all, if more people had them, western society wouldnt be in such a mess.

And no I wont calm down and join your club of happy happy nice warm fuzzy feelings joy joy rabbits, Id rather be realistic, and not sweep todays problems under the carpet, just so as not to unenhance group collective calm, isnt that how you modern kids say it?

And I agree with the last staement on humans, like a famous person once said, 'the more I get to know people, the more I like my dog better'.
I didn't sweep anything under the carpet and I don't like joy joy rabbit fuzzlyness and whatnot of the manner.
I hate politics.

So what bands are you people listening to these days?

I'm part of today's youth the only drug I take I guess you could say is caffeine from sodas, and not in the weird addict manner where you nearly kill yourself. Friend of mine from Japan knows this guy who nearly died from to much caffeine.
The same could be said of all my friends back when I was in highschool ... hell even post highschool ... they were not drug users ... I do have a drink every now and then but I am over 21 and it ends up to be an average of once every 5+ months between parties (I work 72 hrs a week ontop of school including weekends ... I dont have any time for anything else)

I'm part of today's youth the only drug I take I guess you could say is caffeine from sodas, and not in the weird addict manner where you nearly kill yourself. Friend of mine from Japan knows this guy who nearly died from to much caffeine.

Same here, I was under that much stress once, I was drinking coffee non stop for almost a year.

I didn't sweep anything under the carpet and I don't like joy joy rabbit fuzzlyness and whatnot of the manner.
I hate politics.

So what bands are you people listening to these days?
Eighties bands, like Australian Crawl, and I still like Morrissey.
I am fond of Pearl Jam but, despite their political leanings.

Same here, I was under that much stress once, I was drinking coffee non stop for almost a year.
Never been that far but see my fair share of 48 + hrs of school work shifts myself ... when school is on I drink a lot of pop and when summer hits I switch to watter and coolaid lol

Your american left wing is more to the right than our canadian rigth wing. So your republican right wing must be the devil!!!

Seriously, how can you guys call democrates leftist or socialist?

Eighties bands, like Australian Crawl, and I still like Morrissey.
I am fond of Pearl Jam but, despite their political leanings.
Pearl Jam is deffinatly quality ... love their remake of last kiss

Overly simplified strawman

Liberals think that select laws will remove some of the institutanalized discrimination ... they dont want laws for the sake of laws rather to iron out some of the built in issues (not saying it is always the best stratagy but its some of the way they see it)

Even that's not entirely true. Liberals just favor different laws. Liberals are entirely for the elimination of drug laws, for instance.

You basically said that liberals' parents are druggies.
I'm a liberal, and my parents aren't druggies. If you don't mean for something to be taken literally, please don't post it in such a matter-of-fact way.
I agree, though. Drug use is out of hand.

Your simplyfying my statement into a direct insult at his parents which it wasnt, of course not every leftys parents took drugs, just as every rightys parents didnt shoot a gun.(Ill make America an exception to that last one.)

And yes drug use is wayyyyyyyyy out of hand.

Never been that far but see my fair share of 48 + hrs of school work shifts myself ... when school is on I drink a lot of pop and when summer hits I switch to watter and coolaid lol

Give me Dvorák or Grieg any day of the week. :p

Never been that far but see my fair share of 48 + hrs of school work shifts myself ... when school is on I drink a lot of pop and when summer hits I switch to watter and coolaid lol

I was drinking nearly 30 cups a day for a year!
I was addicted, and stopping wasnt easy either, especially on people around me.

Pearl Jam is deffinatly quality ... love their remake of last kiss
Favs are Green disease, Bushleaguer, Love Boat Captain, Black and too many more to mention.

How on earth did dubbya get reelected ????

It's really quite simple. It's because we're not spineless quivering neo-Chamberlain U.N. whores. Forgive us if we don't run to the latest "Peace in our time!" proclamations. We're America, we're used to cleaning up your messes. We gave you Euro-peons from the mid 60's to Sept 11, 2001 to do something about the Islamic terror crisis brewing in your backyard. You signed meaningless treaties with the terrorists (I.E. Arafat, Khomeini) and hoped you'd appeased them. Well your problem came to our shores and killed 3000 Americans, so we'll do any damn thing we feel to solve the problem. Are you going to stop us? O that's right, you can't even defend your own nation.

Stiff upper lip chap, we'll do it right. Just like we did with Mad George, Kaiser Wilhelm, Hitler, soviet communism and Y2K. Plus we've got the valuable lessons of British history to guide us. We've seen your utter failures in:

Imperialism, colonialism, warfare, monarchy, global leadership, state religion, diplomacy, parliamentary government, public education, solving crime and of course universal health care.

You've provided stunning examples of how NOT to do all those things. Rest assured we won't be repeating your mistakes. At least your country did something right though and re-elected the Mr. Blair and the Labor party. Thus proving yet again that people like you are the kook minority and not worth taking seriously. Cheers!

I was drinking nearly 30 cups a day for a year!
I was addicted, and stopping wasnt easy either, especially on people around me.
Yeah I had the advantage that all through highschool and beyond I did a marching band thing and because pop is a diaretic I had to drop pop every summer

I have a feeling that has helped me keep from being adicted because during the school year specialy when I am teaching a few classes now I get pretty close to that 30 cups :) (tend to drink mt.dew and bawls lol)

Liberals are entirely for the elimination of drug laws, for instance.
I'm a bleeding-heart liberal, and I support drug laws.

Favs are Green disease, Bushleaguer, Love Boat Captain, Black and too many more to mention.
:) I tend to be a fan of all rock but I am "light" on 80's bands (I mean there are some like metalica and van halen that played through the 80's that I like) but have a tendancy to dislike a lot of the pop or hair bands of the day

What a balanced poll...
So the left is either a menace, a threat, misguided or uninformed?

It's a trick he picked up from FOX news after they started getting their polls answered by liberals.

They had a poll that asked if Reagan should be put on the 10 dollar bill and the result was 90% yes. Then some liberal blogs put the word out and the result was 70% no a few hours later.

Then they changed the poll to ask if Reagan should be put on the $1 bill, the $5 bill, or the $10 bill.

Your simplyfying my statement into a direct insult at his parents which it wasnt, of course not every leftys parents took drugs, just as every rightys parents didnt shoot a gun.(Ill make America an exception to that last one.)

And yes drug use is wayyyyyyyyy out of hand.

You said:

"Their the ones I would have picked, happy happy joy joy when you agree with them, and deranged when you disagree.
Its a combination of cowardice encouraged by poor values taught by parents, who dont value courage in their kids, as they have none themselves, and way, way too much drug taking."

This was regarding calling liberals either "deranged" or "happy happy..."


How does this not mean that you are implying liberals' parents don't have values, and take too many drugs?

You really thoguht Green Day's older stuff was better? I don't know. I really liked American Idiot. I liked the message they were conveying and enjoyed the music.

I'm not sure why all Americans are getting bashed on this board. It seems to bge fairly common, and completely uncalled for. Bash the extreme partisans, but don't spew crap like "the attitudes of the leaders reflect those of the people," because that's bullshit. The attitudes of the leaders reflect the attitudes of fity-one percent of the people who bothered to vote. That isn't a majority of the country, that's a one-point majority of about sixty percent of the country. Making statements like that just makes you seem uneducated, extremely biased, unaware of current events, or some combination of the three.

I'm a Democrat. I believe in Social Security, welfare, gun control, no preemptive wars, and defense of civil liberties. I also am an avid shooter, come from a middle-class family, and mock rich people. I don't understand how any of those stances are any of the options quoted in this poll, which is why I didn't bother to respond on the poll itself. Again, bias is bad; it's what ripping the country apart. Listen to your opponents, sometimes you can hear something worthwile. (or at least something that can be exploited for personal gain)

Jk, that's just my inner facist speaking up.

You really thoguht Green Day's older stuff was better? I don't know. I really liked American Idiot. I liked the message they were conveying and enjoyed the music.

I'm not sure why all Americans are getting bashed on this board. It seems to bge fairly common, and completely uncalled for. Bash the extreme partisans, but don't spew crap like "the attitudes of the leaders reflect those of the people," because that's bullshit. The attitudes of the leaders reflect the attitudes of fity-one percent of the people who bothered to vote. That isn't a majority of the country, that's a one-point majority of about sixty percent of the country. Making statements like that just makes you seem uneducated, extremely biased, unaware of current events, or some combination of the three.

I'm a Democrat. I believe in Social Security, welfare, gun control, no preemptive wars, and defense of civil liberties. I also am an avid shooter, come from a middle-class family, and mock rich people. I don't understand how any of those stances are any of the options quoted in this poll, which is why I didn't bother to respond on the poll itself. Again, bias is bad; it's what ripping the country apart. Listen to your opponents, sometimes you can hear something worthwile. (or at least something that can be exploited for personal gain)

Jk, that's just my inner facist speaking up.

Not a fan of the song it was rater juvinile I thought there were a lot better ways to get your dissatisfaction across then bashing a large portion of the populace

It's really quite simple. It's because we're not spineless quivering neo-Chamberlain U.N. whores. Forgive us if we don't run to the latest "Peace in our time!" proclamations. We're America, we're used to cleaning up your messes. We gave you Euro-peons from the mid 60's to Sept 11, 2001 to do something about the Islamic terror crisis brewing in your backyard. You signed meaningless treaties with the terrorists (I.E. Arafat, Khomeini) and hoped you'd appeased them. Well your problem came to our shores and killed 3000 Americans, so we'll do any damn thing we feel to solve the problem. Are you going to stop us? O that's right, you can't even defend your own nation.

Stiff upper lip chap, we'll do it right. Just like we did with Mad George, Kaiser Wilhelm, Hitler, soviet communism and Y2K. Plus we've got the valuable lessons of British history to guide us. We've seen your utter failures in:

Imperialism, colonialism, warfare, monarchy, global leadership, state religion, diplomacy, parliamentary government, public education, solving crime and of course universal health care.

You've provided stunning examples of how NOT to do all those things. Rest assured we won't be repeating your mistakes. At least your country did something right though and re-elected the Mr. Blair and the Labor party. Thus proving yet again that people like you are the kook minority and not worth taking seriously. Cheers!

No, this post is not worth taking seriously.

First, your use of the phrase "Islamic terror" implies that it is worse than other kinds of terror (ie, the Oklahoma City Bombing). Second, Al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan, which is far from Europe. Third, 3000 Americans is nothing compared to:
Drunk driving deaths per year
Genocidal murders per year
Abortions per year (for you life-preservers)
AIDS deaths per year
Natural disaster deaths per year

That doesn't make it right, but it puts it in to perspective. Why are we so eager to go to war, when we have worse problems at home?

Enough with the rhetoric, please.


On a side note, though I disagree with many American ideals, some of the anti-Americanism here I agree is out of hand. Some of the anti-liberal is as well, but that doesn't make it right.

It's really quite simple. It's because we're not spineless quivering neo-Chamberlain U.N. whores. Forgive us if we don't run to the latest "Peace in our time!" proclamations. We're America, we're used to cleaning up your messes.

Translation "We are brainless drooling Neo-Conservative whores. We like to think that we have large penises and so we identify with the most macho swaggering jackass that's pissing all over us because we like to pretend that he's laughing with us."

We gave you Euro-peons from the mid 60's to Sept 11, 2001 to do something about the Islamic terror crisis brewing in your backyard.

"We stirred up the middle east political climate to brew terrorism, conflict and hatred to make sure that no stable government could ever control any of the oil there. Saddam threatened to become dangerously stable and we almost had an excuse to go to war with him. It wasn't quite enough of an excuse to convince anyone with a brain, so we settled for convincing American Republicans."

You signed meaningless treaties with the terrorists (I.E. Arafat, Khomeini) and hoped you'd appeased them. Well your problem came to our shores and killed 3000 Americans, so we'll do any damn thing we feel to solve the problem. Are you going to stop us? O that's right, you can't even defend your own nation.

"Fuck you"

Stiff upper lip chap, we'll do it right. Just like we did with Mad George, Kaiser Wilhelm, Hitler, soviet communism and Y2K. Plus we've got the valuable lessons of British history to guide us. We've seen your utter failures in:

Imperialism, colonialism, warfare, monarchy, global leadership, state religion, diplomacy, parliamentary government, public education, solving crime and of course universal health care.

"And we've decided that it's our turn to do that."

You've provided stunning examples of how NOT to do all those things. Rest assured we won't be repeating your mistakes.

"We'll do it in cowboy boots, and with a mountain of foreign owned debt. You limey buggers were rich as theives when you tried it."

At least your country did something right though and re-elected the Mr. Blair and the Labor party. Thus proving yet again that people like you are the kook minority and not worth taking seriously. Cheers!

"Brains are overrated. Look at the dinosaurs, they had brains like walnuts and they were badass."

I'm actually in England.

Translation "We are brainless drooling Neo-Conservative whores. We like to think that we have large penises and so we identify with the most macho swaggering jackass that's pissing all over us because we like to pretend that he's laughing with us."



"We stirred up the middle east political climate to brew terrorism, conflict and hatred to make sure that no stable government could ever control any of the oil there. Saddam threatened to become dangerously stable and we almost had an excuse to go to war with him. It wasn't quite enough of an excuse to convince anyone with a brain, so we settled for convincing American Republicans."



"Fuck you"



"And we've decided that it's our turn to do that."



"We'll do it in cowboy boots, and with a mountain of foreign owned debt. You limey buggers were rich as theives when you tried it."



"Brains are overrated. Look at the dinosaurs, they had brains like walnuts and they were badass."

I thought I answered his post in a more civil way. Even if someone says something idiotic, it is not in your best interest to "prove" how idiotic they were with sarcasm. Rather, point out their obvious flaws. It makes you much more understandable.

I meant American Idiot as in the album as a whole. But I did like the song too.

Polarizing politics is.... A menace. A threat. Misguided and Uninformed.

The left and right each have thier good ideas. I think folks who ither go all left or all right are tools.

I love youfor saying this.

What left? The only real left I meet are Democrats Abroad. All the others just seem to be Diet-Republicans. There isn't a real left in America.

Seriously, the American liberals are more on the right than Canadian conservatives.

For one, the Canadian conservatives like universal health care. Practically all Canadians except fringe right-wing groups and the upper-middle-class want to keep universal health care. The only alternative that is occasionally brought up is the two-tiered system, which is far from America's total lack of universal health care. No sane Democrat would advocate a Canadian system and survive an election.

The Canadian conservatives also like immigration. They promised to up the annual quota, at least.

Canadian conservatives are also traditionally wary of American influence and pro-British, although this has changed with neoconservatives like Stockwell Day and Stephen Harper.

It's very frustrating when people associate leftism with the Democrats. It makes absolutely no sense, because the Republican Party has embraced neoliberalism and the Democrats are pretty much on the far right economically. This two-party system limits room for understanding greatly because there is so little variation even between the two. On the other hand, there is a lot of variety amongst the true leftists, and they are entirely ignored in mainstream discussion. Yet when leftists call themselves exactly that, they are assumed to be liberals.

Calling liberals "leftists" is propagating a misnomer, and it only hurts real leftists that don't want to be associated with the Democratic Party of the United States.

Seriously, the American liberals are more on the right than Canadian conservatives.

For one, the Canadian conservatives like universal health care. Practically all Canadians except fringe right-wing groups and the upper-middle-class want to keep universal health care. The only alternative that is occasionally brought up is the two-tiered system, which is far from America's total lack of universal health care. No sane Democrat would advocate a Canadian system and survive an election.

The Canadian conservatives also like immigration. They promised to up the annual quota, at least.

Canadian conservatives are also traditionally wary of American influence and pro-British, although this has changed with neoconservatives like Stockwell Day and Stephen Harper.

It's very frustrating when people associate leftism with the Democrats. It makes absolutely no sense, because the Republican Party has embraced neoliberalism and the Democrats are pretty much on the far right economically. This two-party system limits room for understanding greatly because there is so little variation even between the two. On the other hand, there is a lot of variety amongst the true leftists, and they are entirely ignored in mainstream discussion. Yet when leftists call themselves exactly that, they are assumed to be liberals.

Calling liberals "leftists" is an affront to real leftists that don't want to be associated with the Democratic Party of the United States.

Thanks a bunch! I really like being insulted by those I agree with! :headbang:

A large number of "American liberals" (which I'll call just "liberals" from now on for ease of typing) are for universal health care. I don't know where you get any information that they're not.

Also, a large number of liberals are pro immigration.

And please explain to me how the "Democratic Party" advocates right wing economics?



The Democratic candidates themselves may be right of the average, but much of the democratic populace are truly "liberal". Maybe not far left, but at least left-center.



EDIT: And, if I'm wrong, and I am one of the minority, then I better get out of the US while I still can...

Calling liberals "leftists" is propagating a misnomer, and it only hurts real leftists that don't want to be associated with the Democratic Party of the United States.

Like myself.

LMAO; poor mom...

nah, she likes it.

I always thought that the Democrats were conservative and the Republicans slightly more conservative, that's how it's always looked to me :)

(I'm most likely wrong :headbang: but oh well...)

It's really quite simple. It's because we're not spineless quivering neo-Chamberlain U.N. whores. Forgive us if we don't run to the latest "Peace in our time!" proclamations. We're America, we're used to cleaning up your messes. We gave you Euro-peons from the mid 60's to Sept 11, 2001 to do something about the Islamic terror crisis brewing in your backyard. You signed meaningless treaties with the terrorists (I.E. Arafat, Khomeini) and hoped you'd appeased them. Well your problem came to our shores and killed 3000 Americans, so we'll do any damn thing we feel to solve the problem. Are you going to stop us? O that's right, you can't even defend your own nation.

Cleaning up our messes? Vietnam, Chile, and Greece are three good examples of where that didn't happen.
UN whores? Neo-Chamberlain? Chamberlain's UK wasn't a member of the UN. The League of Nations doesn't have the similar capabilities as the UN does, so that wasn't a viable option back then. Plus, the UK was in no way capable of putting up as tough a resistance against fascist Germany before the Munich conference than when Poland was invaded and he knew it.
Our problem went to your shores? That's crap. I don't see mad Arabs burning EU, German, or French flags, so what makes you think that Europe is responsible?

Stiff upper lip chap, we'll do it right. Just like we did with Mad George, Kaiser Wilhelm, Hitler, soviet communism and Y2K. Plus we've got the valuable lessons of British history to guide us. We've seen your utter failures in:

Imperialism, colonialism, warfare, monarchy, global leadership, state religion, diplomacy, parliamentary government, public education, solving crime and of course universal health care.

Do it right? WWI was the biggest fuck up in diplomatic history, due to French nationalism and American diplomatic incompentence stemming from isolationism. Soviet communism was combated in an immoral manner, since it was more of a war between America and the USSR and not Freedom vs. Opression. And Imperialism isn't just a British failure. Americans practiced it too and still practice it today.


You've provided stunning examples of how NOT to do all those things. Rest assured we won't be repeating your mistakes. At least your country did something right though and re-elected the Mr. Blair and the Labor party. Thus proving yet again that people like you are the kook minority and not worth taking seriously. Cheers!
Exactly: Bush. Repeating our mistakes? We did: Bush. Besides, Blair got reelected mainly due to the fact that the other big party was also for the war and that his economic policy is doing Britain good. The war cost him votes.

What are your thoughts on the blue state lovers in this country? Please, take a moment to let us know....

Gladly! I'd just like to point out [as I'm sure somoene else already has] that it is nominally disappointing to see no options in favor of the 'American Left;' as much as I disapprove of their politics you do have to leave some avenue for disagreement open if you want to make for a constructive debate or for that matter a poll where people will actually vote on it.

American Liberals, as a general rule, strike me as generally being very well read and very informed people--it's unusual to find a collective mass of people who are so well versed in the goings-on of the world today. Many are involved with or have been through some manner of higher education, which may or may not have anything to do with their political affiliations. Unfortunately college isn't the real world and people who go gain significant advangates over those who don't, but miss out on things like learning how the real world works. College is not teh real world. Neither is grad school no matter how hard they try. Since High School isn't exactly what I'd call an outlet for political expression, many people find college is their first opportunity to engage in debates of this nature, and for a lot of people it changes the way they think about things. That's sort of what it's supposed to do.

Liberalism is the Hotel California of political ideologies. The individual notions or people behind it [eg. compassion, tolerance for minorities and an 'equal opportunity' for all citizens vs Joe Walsh, Don Henley, Glen Fry etc etc.] are actually rather good and I have a hard time finding fault with them as individual concepts [or, in the case of the Eagles, musicians].

But for one reason or another it falls apart when you try to make an ideology [or, in the case of the Eagles, an album] out of it. Its hard to put a finger on any one thing and say "That's what I don't like about liberalism [or Hotel California]," but this stems more from my not being able to determine where to start rather than any particularly glaring shortcoming in my understanding of liberalism and its principles.

My biggest concern with it, I suppose, is it teaches us that society has a greater value than the individual. This is true in some senses; like say in a war or an economic struggle when one dude really isn't going to make all that much of a difference. Liberalism tells us that society will provide and diminishes the expectation that the individual should be able to provide for himself.

If you want to see someone succeed, the best way to do it is equip him with the means [eg. a bigger friggin paycheck] and motivation to get ahead and make a better life for himself. I myself am personally responsible for zero [count 'em, zero] beggars on the streets, so why am I paying them?

A liberal might answer "well, you're part of society, and so are they. We're all in this together, after all," but where's the logic in that? Did I vote for the job-killing federal minimum wage increase that lost that guy his job in the first place? No. Did I even vote for the bastard who put that bill through? You bet your ass I didn't. If anything, liberal policies are likely the real problems here; things like raising the minimum wage and imposing new restrictions on private enterprise tend to have bad results on jobs. Consider the steel industry--a very specialized field where workers will have a devil of a time finding another job that suits their skills and pays anything close to what they were making before. If the Federal Government comes in and says "you need to pay all of your workers x amount more," labor costs go through the roof and the owners are more likely to look into cutting jobs and resorting to outsourcing or mechanization. The workers are fucked.

Raising taxes does the same thing. When you want to start pimping out your superfunds in the name of the public interest, that money comes straigh tout of my pocket--and the pockets of the poor folks who are fortunate enough to have an already shit-for-pay-job in the first place. It creates a vicious cycle where the only apparent solution is to raise the minimum wage, but then we're back to square one what with all the job killing.

Basically what I'm saying here is I have respect for the ideas behind liberalism, and I think respect for your fellow man is a healthy thing to have; but you have to be careful when you decide to make a policy of it.

Thanks a bunch! I really like being insulted by those I agree with! :headbang:

A large number of "American liberals" (which I'll call just "liberals" from now on for ease of typing) are for universal health care. I don't know where you get any information that they're not.

Also, a large number of liberals are pro immigration.

And please explain to me how the "Democratic Party" advocates right wing economics?



The Democratic candidates themselves may be right of the average, but much of the democratic populace are truly "liberal". Maybe not far left, but at least left-center.

From a world view, democrate are right-right-center... You tend to help more big corporation than small buisness. Kerry's wife is at the head of heinz and you act like is a communist. I understand the average left american may have more left view, but it only show your not well represented by the democrate.

Gladly! I'd just like to point out [as I'm sure somoene else already has] that it is nominally disappointing to see no options in favor of the 'American Left;' as much as I disapprove of their politics you do have to leave some avenue for disagreement open if you want to make for a constructive debate or for that matter a poll where people will actually vote on it.

American Liberals, as a general rule, strike me as generally being very well read and very informed people--it's unusual to find a collective mass of people who are so well versed in the goings-on of the world today. Many are involved with or have been through some manner of higher education, which may or may not have anything to do with their political affiliations. Unfortunately college isn't the real world and people who go gain significant advangates over those who don't, but miss out on things like learning how the real world works. College is not teh real world. Neither is grad school no matter how hard they try. Since High School isn't exactly what I'd call an outlet for political expression, many people find college is their first opportunity to engage in debates of this nature, and for a lot of people it changes the way they think about things. That's sort of what it's supposed to do.

Liberalism is the Hotel California of political ideologies. The individual notions or people behind it [eg. compassion, tolerance for minorities and an 'equal opportunity' for all citizens vs Joe Walsh, Don Henley, Glen Fry etc etc.] are actually rather good and I have a hard time finding fault with them as individual concepts [or, in the case of the Eagles, musicians].

But for one reason or another it falls apart when you try to make an ideology [or, in the case of the Eagles, an album] out of it. Its hard to put a finger on any one thing and say "That's what I don't like about liberalism [or Hotel California]," but this stems more from my not being able to determine where to start rather than any particularly glaring shortcoming in my understanding of liberalism and its principles.

My biggest concern with it, I suppose, is it teaches us that society has a greater value than the individual. This is true in some senses; like say in a war or an economic struggle when one dude really isn't going to make all that much of a difference. Liberalism tells us that society will provide and diminishes the expectation that the individual should be able to provide for himself.

If you want to see someone succeed, the best way to do it is equip him with the means [eg. a bigger friggin paycheck] and motivation to get ahead and make a better life for himself. I myself am personally responsible for zero [count 'em, zero] beggars on the streets, so why am I paying them?

A liberal might answer "well, you're part of society, and so are they. We're all in this together, after all," but where's the logic in that? Did I vote for the job-killing federal minimum wage increase that lost that guy his job in the first place? No. Did I even vote for the bastard who put that bill through? You bet your ass I didn't. If anything, liberal policies are likely the real problems here; things like raising the minimum wage and imposing new restrictions on private enterprise tend to have bad results on jobs. Consider the steel industry--a very specialized field where workers will have a devil of a time finding another job that suits their skills and pays anything close to what they were making before. If the Federal Government comes in and says "you need to pay all of your workers x amount more," labor costs go through the roof and the owners are more likely to look into cutting jobs and resorting to outsourcing or mechanization. The workers are fucked.

Raising taxes does the same thing. When you want to start pimping out your superfunds in the name of the public interest, that money comes straigh tout of my pocket--and the pockets of the poor folks who are fortunate enough to have an already shit-for-pay-job in the first place. It creates a vicious cycle where the only apparent solution is to raise the minimum wage, but then we're back to square one what with all the job killing.

Basically what I'm saying here is I have respect for the ideas behind liberalism, and I think respect for your fellow man is a healthy thing to have; but you have to be careful when you decide to make a policy of it.
Well said. Just as Christians should not be able legislate morality, neither should liberals. I have no problems with the morals most liberals support.

Thanks a bunch! I really like being insulted by those I agree with! :headbang:

A large number of "American liberals" (which I'll call just "liberals" from now on for ease of typing) are for universal health care. I don't know where you get any information that they're not.

Also, a large number of liberals are pro immigration.

And please explain to me how the "Democratic Party" advocates right wing economics?



The Democratic candidates themselves may be right of the average, but much of the democratic populace are truly "liberal". Maybe not far left, but at least left-center.

A large number may ideally want universal health care but are afraid of the tax burden that comes with it, and a larger number still will be content with a two-tiered system (privatized and nationalized industries running alongside each other). Others are content as long as reforms are made. Being pro-immigration isn't in itself leftist, as the Canadian conservatives are pro-immigration.

I also haven't see anything done about the rising corporations that are taking over the planet. Instead, these corporations are often defended by liberals, citizens and politicians alike.

And you speak of politicians and people having different agendas. It's true that politicians don't often look out for their constituents' best interests, but then why are the constituents voting for the party and identifying themselves as the party's guaranteed voters?

A leftist consistently supporting the Dems as the lesser of the two evils is really no more a Democrat than an independent.

From a world view, democrate are right-right-center... You tend to help more big corporation than small buisness. Kerry's wife is at the head of heinz and you act like is a communist. I understand the average left american may have more left view, but it only show your not well represented by the democrate.
Supposedly, she has no ties to the corporation. :rolleyes:

However, just 'cause someone does work in a corporation they are not necessarily inherently evil. Sounds like you maybe generalzing a bit.

From a world view, democrate are right-right-center... You tend to help more big corporation than small buisness. Kerry's wife is at the head of heinz and you act like is a communist. I understand the average left american may have more left view, but it only show your not well represented by the democrate.

So by "you" you mean Kerry and other politcally apt democrats.


I agree, my views are not well represented by democrats, but they're certainly not represented by republicans. The problem is we have to put out a "moderate" to combat a "moderate". I of course do not consider Kerry or Bush to be a moderate. I consider Kerry slightly right and Bush far right (though some of his ideas are pretty left wing... the immigration thing, for example).

But as I said, for a democrat in the US to have any political say, they have to be the US version of moderate.


I wish it were not the case that we had a two-party system, but we do.


Anyway, I'm done arguing for tonight. Goodnight to all.

Well said. Just as Christians should not be able legislate morality, neither should liberals. I have no problems with the morals most liberals support.

I must nitpick.

A liberal or Christian moral structure is no different from my own, it's their value structure that differs. A moral is something that most of us are born with; call it instinct if you will but basically what it tells us is is to prefer not to beat up other people or burn down their house etc etc. I'm a firm believer in a moral objective and while I'm not prepared to argue about it at length in a topic not designed for it, I must offer this clarification.

But regardless, I understand your point and agree.

I must nitpick.

A liberal or Christian moral structure is no different from my own, it's their value structure that differs. A moral is something that most of us are born with; call it instinct if you will but basically what it tells us is is to prefer not to beat up other people or burn down their house etc etc. I'm a firm believer in a moral objective and while I'm not prepared to argue about it at length in a topic not designed for it, I must offer this clarification.

But regardless, I understand your point and agree.

True, true. My terminology was perhaps misplaced. Still I fail to see how forcing some one to help others is any less of a dictation than forcing them to do anything else.

Supposedly, she has no ties to the corporation. :rolleyes:

However, just 'cause someone does work in a corporation they are not necessarily inherently evil. Sounds like you maybe generalzing a bit.

Being a buisness school graduate, im not that much against corporation... :rolleyes:

It's just that I here in Canada, big corporation and politician tend to sleep together to help each other. So I prefer small buisness where the number make it more harder to see monopolistic manoeuvre.

As i said before, our prime minister Paul Martin seem pretty close to Kerry when it come to opinion. But never in my life I could picture Paul Martin has being a leftist.

True, true. My terminology was perhaps misplaced. Still I fail to see how forcing some one to help others is any less of a dictation than forcing them to do anything else.

I've heard this [the idea of 'forcing some one to help others'] called "Moral Cannibalism" and I think I like the sound of it. If I want to give money to someone on the street I'm perfectly within my rights to do so and I can't say as I'd disapprove of people who make a habit of doing it; but it's a completely different game when the government beats down your door telling you to give money to the bum.

A lot of people tell me I'm a callous asshole, but the fact of the matter is I'm not responsible for my predecessors, and I'm not responsible for the conditions in which these people live. It would be like if they made you and all your classmates pay for the lunch that the nerd couldn't get because his money was stolen. It's admirable to do on your own but it's a contradiction to make a law of it.

Besides, private charities do tons more for poor folks than the government will. Give a bum $20 and he'll buy a bottle of Jack, but if you give him a goddamn bed or some food he won't have much choice but to use them as such.

Being a buisness school graduate, im not that much against corporation... :rolleyes:

It's just that I here in Canada, big corporation and politician tend to sleep together to help each other. So I prefer small buisness where the number make it more harder to see monopolistic manoeuvre.

As i said before, our prime minister Paul Martin seem pretty close to Kerry when it come to opinion. But never in my life I could picture Paul Martin has being a leftist.
Well he's only called left, cuz he's left of something else. :D

Yes. Liberal republicans, like Dubya, are rather obnoxious lately.

Barely leftist.

Oh, what an unbiased and informative poll this is.

Oh, what an unbiased and informative poll this is.

Heh, I can say reasonably safety that most* (if not all) of the people complaining about the poll are left.

*highlighted in bold for you rediculously nitpicky types.

Heh, I can say reasonably safety that most* (if not all) of the people complaining about the poll are left.

*highlighted in bold for you rediculously nitpicky types.

Yes.

Much like, if you set fire to people, most of the people complaining will be people.

Well, I know this is hardly a revolutionary new idea, but it seems to me that what are most dangerous are those who think they have answers to everything. The world's a wacky, wild, confusing place.

What's the deal with invasion? Taxation? Immigration, emigration, exportation, molestation, copulation, urbanization, the United Nations? Damned if I know. But, the way I see it, at least I know I'm an idiot in over his head.

What are your thoughts on the blue state lovers in this country? Please, take a moment to let us know....
Such an unbiased poll. :rolleyes:

Not allowing for democratic fair choices in your poll speaks volumes of your extremism.

Yes.

Much like, if you set fire to people, most of the people complaining will be people.
ROFL. that's some poignant shit right there.

What are your thoughts on the blue state lovers in this country? Please, take a moment to let us know....

Where's the 'still scary right-wingers' option?

Their the ones I would have picked, happy happy joy joy when you agree with them, and deranged when you disagree.
Its a combination of cowardice encouraged by poor values taught by parents, who dont value courage in their kids, as they have none themselves, and way, way too much drug taking.
But for the poll, I chose, misguided, as despite all my frustration with the naive and too laidback values of modern western youth, I truly feel sorry for them, and want to help.

Excuse me?

Rock 'N' Roll Never Felt So Good by GWAR. Awesome song! Woohoo!

Well folks, I thought when I set this poll out to run, it would be pretty evident it was a joke - even tried to be funny in my first 2 posts before I got called away. Now, reading all the replies, I have come to a few conclusions:

1. Folks from the American Left on Nationstates dont have much of a sense of humor.
Or maybe are just oversensitive? Is it the right, too? Is the political invective so extreme here that someone posting a poll like this (even the "threat or menace" option is a Simpsons paraphrase) is assumed to be serious?

2. A lot more Americans hate America than I thought.
Wow, I was stunned by how many folks had nasty stuff to say about the US - from Europeans I get it (despite their many good qualities, no one has EVER accused the Continentals of having a good sense of humor -the French LOVE Jerry Lewis!) From the English I KINDA get it - though the English have Monty Python, Douglas Adams, Faulty Towers, Rowan Atkinson, etc. etc. they also have their share of the humorless. However from the folks in THIS COUNTRY, I don't get it. Whatever our country's faults (and we all agree she has 'em, we just disagree on what they are) there is so much good here that the flaming of the US stunned me. I was actually out at work (got called on a trouble call) and was talking to an Australian lady who has moved here; she kept saying though she loved Australia, the second she came here she knew she would have to move here. Maybe the anti-US US posters just take things for granted here?

3. Some people think post-Nimrod Green Day in any way compares to pre-Nimrod Green Day.
Nuh-uh.

Well folks, I thought when I set this poll out to run, it would be pretty evident it was a joke - even tried to be funny in my first 2 posts before I got called away. Now, reading all the replies, I have come to a few conclusions:

1. Folks from the American Left on Nationstates dont have much of a sense of humor.


There was no way to tell it was a joke.

Remember, this same garbage is seen on Fox all the time.


Or maybe are just oversensitive? Is it the right, too? Is the political invective so extreme here that someone posting a poll like this (even the "threat or menace" option is a Simpsons paraphrase) is assumed to be serious?


If someone who despises you pokes you in the arm often enough, in the same spot, it'll still hurt if your friend pokes that very same bruise.


2. A lot more Americans hate America than I thought.


The elections were about 50/50. Half of the voting public despise the other half to some degree. That's ONLY the voting public.


Wow, I was stunned by how many folks had nasty stuff to say about the US - from Europeans I get it (despite their many good qualities, no one has EVER accused the Continentals of having a good sense of humor -the French LOVE Jerry Lewis!) From the English I KINDA get it - though the English have Monty Python, Douglas Adams, Faulty Towers, Rowan Atkinson, etc. etc. they also have their share of the humorless. However from the folks in THIS COUNTRY, I don't get it. Whatever our country's faults (and we all agree she has 'em, we just disagree on what they are) there is so much good here that the flaming of the US stunned me.


We trained Bin Laden and Saddam's troops. We have every right to be annoyed at this fact. It is the societal duty of every generation to try to negate the faults of the one before it, moving as close to a truly pleasant society as is humanly possible. You make it sound like people shouldn't be upset at organized crime because we have nice fountains in the parks.


I was actually out at work (got called on a trouble call) and was talking to an Australian lady who has moved here; she kept saying though she loved Australia, the second she came here she knew she would have to move here. Maybe the anti-US US posters just take things for granted here?


Or we know more about the US than a 'newbie' does, since we've lived through more of the BS than she has.

I love parts of America. I have no obligation to give a damn about the rest.

The elections were about 50/50. Half of the voting public despise the other half to some degree. That's ONLY the voting public.

No, half the voting public thinks there is a better way. On most of the issues (even the supposedly hot topic ones like abortion rights) I can see and sympathize with the views of the other side - I just think whichever side I vote for has a better way.

We trained Bin Laden and Saddam's troops. We have every right to be annoyed at this fact...You make it sound like people shouldn't be upset at organized crime because we have nice fountains in the parks.

Our politicians don't rule by divine right; they screw up as much as the rest of us. While hindsight is 20/20, and certainly we should learn from mistakes of the past, there is a difference between "man, we screwed that up. Lets do better" and "man, we screwed that up because we are evil, stupid and arrogant; at least all of you are - I'm moving!" Not everyone was that bad here, but a lot of folks were.

I love parts of America. I have no obligation to give a damn about the rest.

Sure you do. We all do. And the very fact you are discussing it proves you do give a damn about the rest. We all have an obligation to try and make right what we think is most wrong in our country.

Heheh, this poll reminds me of one of my first arguments against "bad application of democracy", aka giving only one choice. :p

I can hear the republican voices in the back: "dammit, this IS a good poll! We can't allow people to make a WRONG choice, now can we? What kind of democracy would that be?"

1. Folks from the American Left on Nationstates dont have much of a sense of humor.
Or maybe are just oversensitive? Is it the right, too? Is the political invective so extreme here that someone posting a poll like this (even the "threat or menace" option is a Simpsons paraphrase) is assumed to be serious?


Sadly I've seen many people make a thread like this (from leftwingers going the other way as well) that are completely serious. I've also learnt that no matter how obvious you think a joke is, a few people on here will still bite.


3. Some people think post-Nimrod Green Day in any way compares to pre-Nimrod Green Day.
Nuh-uh.


Agreed.

I stand in direct opposition to *both* the left and right - I consider them both a threat to American libertarians.

2. A lot more Americans hate America than I thought.
The way I see it, I was just born here. I have no obligation to feel love or pride or whatever for this country. It doesn't represent what I believe on any level. I mean, yeah, liberty, justice, etc, but I think it's fair to say that, with the exception of some dictatorships, those are universal values and are generally the underlying principles of most governments. I look to Europe and see more of my ideas in action, and I hate it that the US is pretty much the opposite.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go enjoy this lovely day at a baseball game.

What a balanced poll...
So the left is either a menace, a threat, misguided or uninformed?
Easy question... YES!

I'm sorry, I gotta disagree about Green Day. They were a good, if kind of redundant punk band. Now, they have moved past the teenage punk music into some more serious rock. I think their best days lie ahead of them.

Well folks, I thought when I set this poll out to run, it would be pretty evident it was a joke - even tried to be funny in my first 2 posts before I got called away.

I knew it was a joke... that's why I was joking with ya about it earlier.


But, when I saw people actually arguing, I just shook my head. I decided if they didn't see it was a joke that's their problem.


I knew that the left would complain if they didn't see it as a joke.

What I didn't know is that people on the right would say this was in any way a fair poll. They did, to my chagrin.



It just goes to show, some of the people on both sides of the political spectrum have issues. I better also say that I'm not calling people who didn't get the joke dumb, as I know this is a forum and sometimes people can get a little hot about these issues. So, sorry if I offended anybody. :rolleyes:

This scientific poll definitvely proves (as of right now) that 57% of the population believes liberals are misguided...

Just to reiterate...

Seriously people, how could you take this comment as anything but a joke? Well, I guess it's once again the fact that it's on a forum... it loses some of it's humanity. Maybe a smiley at the end would have done it. :p

3. Some people think post-Nimrod Green Day in any way compares to pre-Nimrod Green Day.
Nuh-uh.

Who cares? It's all annoying whiney repetitive dirge either way.

3. Some people think post-Nimrod Green Day in any way compares to pre-Nimrod Green Day.
Nuh-uh.

Nimrod, Dookie, and American Idiot are their top albums, hands down. All the rest of it kind of sounds the same. Especially on 1039 smoothed out slappy hours, their first one, all the songs are the same. But Warning, what a load of crap that is.

same thing that's wrong with the right. Poor leadership, corporate puppets, and illegal funding. I agree, this country is great, but that doesn't mean I have to ignore the obvious faults with our political system. I'm a democrat simply because they at least pretend to not be for big business, and pretend to care a whit about the environment.

To be honest, they are rather weak. They just don't have much of a backbone. They need to dare to defy capitalism and take a stronger stance in favor of gay rights and increasing freedom. Compared to leftists in many other nations, the American left is really quite pathetic.

I still find it amusing that the 'left wing' (if you can call the democrat party that) party is blue, and the right wing (or further right wing) party is red. Everytime a 'red state' is mentioned the obvious comes to mind.

I was thinking the same thing.

I'd say for various reasons that the American left is horrendously disorganized. It hasn't really made all that many accomplishments since the forties.

Your Opinion Of The American Left
What American Left?

America Left?

Doesnt exist. Even the 'most left people' of the states are too right for me. Sorry, but I cane across this on that one Left-Winged American message board who bans and puts swastikas on right-winged people. Only problem was, they though I was too left and they banned me along with the right-y's.
Very Liberal of them, wouldnt you say?

This scientific poll definitvely proves (as of right now) that 57% of the population believes liberals are misguided...
I'm beginning to think that this guy is a troll.

When the hell did the metric system become liberal and the english system conservative?
Don't you know? French = liberal ;)

How on earth did dubbya get reelected ????
Because he can keep away the Democrats with their gay love.

I think that was the liberal media's way to trying to turn the tables on conservatives...since, in the past, communism was always "red" (i.e. Red China, The Red Menace [Russia], Red Commies, etc.). Personally, I think it makes sense, though. All of us "red"neck conservatives vs. the elitest "blue"bloods on the left. :D

As to the topic: I think the left and right mostly agree on basic ideals...what we disagree on is how to achieve those ideals.

Topic: Freedom

Conservatives: Less government/laws = more freedom.

Liberals: More government/laws = more freedom.

Of course, I'm conservative, so I'll never understand how more laws = more freedom. ;)
Does the media invent the party colours? I thought that the incumbent party was always red?

Looks like you're already a victim of the media. Funny how Democrats are portrayed as elitist despite so much of their support coming from trade unions. I'm guessing you're referring to the Hollywierd elite. Big deal, the corporate elite overwhelmingly supports the Republicans. :rolleyes:

Topic: Freedom
Many liberals see conservatives as people who make a lot of laws to restrict freedom. So what exactly are you talking about?

ps, thanks for making the first decent post of the thread :)

Hmm, the blues. Well first off I am annoyed they got the better color. I dislike red. Now if I could choose my fellow Reps would get green. Green is the best.
I don't have any particular dislike for Blueys, as long as they aren't dogmatic then having opposing views in a country is always healthy.
The only time I dislike Blueys is when they are self-hating USians. If they spend their time sucking up to EUians by letting them know how much they hate the US and how racist and evil they feel the US is. It adds nothing to healthy debate and is simply an attempt to be liked by a group of people they desperately wish to belong to.
I think Blueys get the image of being elitist because they pretty much control higher education, their politicians are easily as wealthy as any Reds. They recieve large amount of corporate money also and yes they have Hollywood and most other artists of anytype on their side. Unions can hardly be called the representatives of blue collar people anymore. They exist to make their leaders wealthy and to feed money to the Blues. When a member, who may be a Red watches his money go to fuel Blue canidacies then I guess he probably doesn't feel it is helping him too much.

I never, never hate someone only for their politics. It is a pathetic reason to base your likingor disliking of someone on.

I'm beginning to think that this guy is a troll.
I believe he said he was joking.

Previously Jalula said "This scientific poll definitvely proves (as of right now) that 57% of the population believes liberals are misguided..."

I'm sorry but WHAT? The only options of this "scientific" poll as you put it are negative. Also, do you really think that all of the population has voted on this poll? If any less than 100% of the population has not voted on this poll you can not say that 57% of the population thinks liberals are misguided.

This is probably the stupidest thing you have done yet. Keep goin and you might break the record tho!

We're America, we're used to cleaning up your messes. We gave you Euro-peons from the mid 60's to Sept 11, 2001 to do something about the Islamic terror crisis brewing in your backyard. You signed meaningless treaties with the terrorists (I.E. Arafat, Khomeini) and hoped you'd appeased them. Well your problem came to our shores and killed 3000 Americans, so we'll do any damn thing we feel to solve the problem. Are you going to stop us? O that's right, you can't even defend your own nation.

At least your country did something right though and re-elected the Mr. Blair and the Labor party. Thus proving yet again that people like you are the kook minority and not worth taking seriously.
Listen you hateful, arrogant xenophobe, you Americans have no idea how good you have it. The Middle East is not Europe's responsibility when it's American foreign policy that's fucking up the place.

Might does not make right, and you have not learned the lessons of history. The British believed that they were going to bring democracy to this and that region of the world.

If you knew anything about British politics, you would know that the only reason Blair got back in was the atrocious state of the opposition, and his decent handling of the economy. It was no green light to US neocon policy which poodle Blair went along with. 70% of the British people are against the Iraq war, so I guess Mircosis is in the "kook majority", right?

Previously Jalula said "This scientific poll definitively proves (as of right now) that 57% of the population believes liberals are misguided..."
This is probably the stupidest thing you have done yet. Keep goin and you might break the record tho!
I'm beginning to think that this guy is a troll.
This is flabbergasting. I guess I am new to these boards, and internet boards in general, so when I made a joke post & quoted statistics, people would realize it was a joke. I was wrong. HOWEVER, having been proved that I was wrong, I posted that it was a joke, and folks needed to lighten up...and STILL I'm getting flamed. Hmmm. Now I guess I have to complete the converse experiment, start a joke post that is over-the-top anti conservative, and see if the lack of humor is spread evenly across the spectrum...
Seriously people, how could you take this comment as anything but a joke? Well, I guess it's once again the fact that it's on a forum... it loses some of it's humanity. Maybe a smiley at the end would have done it.
What I didn't know is that people on the right would say this was in any way a fair poll. They did, to my chagrin.
Thanks man. At least someone gets it. And yeah, I noticed the crazed posts from the right as well.
Nimrod, Dookie, and American Idiot are their top albums, hands down. All the rest of it kind of sounds the same. Especially on 1039 smoothed out slappy hours, their first one, all the songs are the same. But Warning, what a load of crap that is.
Yeah, and I bet you like Red Hot Chili Peppers post BloodSugarSexMagic better that pre BloodSugarSexMagic, too. No accounting for taste, I guess.

And another topic I hesitate to bring up, but if conservatives are so hard up for less government/laws, why all the hoopla with abortion? Theoretically, conservatives should be against a law outlawing abortion, since that's just another restriction on the lives of private citizens. Right?

Just a thought. Or two.
Totally. It fairly infuriates me that social conservatives feel that they have a licence to talk like libertarians just because they may be for a free market.

So what bands are you people listening to these days?
Belle & Sebastian, Thin Lizzy and Opeth mainly.

The same could be said of all my friends back when I was in highschool ... hell even post highschool ... they were not drug users ... I do have a drink every now and then but I am over 21 and it ends up to be an average of once every 5+ months between parties (I work 72 hrs a week ontop of school including weekends ... I dont have any time for anything else)
Wow! Are you in school full-time? How do you work 72 hours a week? Do you sleep?

I thought I answered his post in a more civil way. Even if someone says something idiotic, it is not in your best interest to "prove" how idiotic they were with sarcasm. Rather, point out their obvious flaws. It makes you much more understandable.
Aah, but Domici was funny. (Whereas I was just angry... how I hate xenophobia.)

Liberalism tells us that society will provide and diminishes the expectation that the individual should be able to provide for himself.
You're thinking of socialism. American liberalism is influenced by this but they are not the same. US liberals seem to be for regulation capitalism, not anti-capitalism. They seem to be for government temporarily tiding people over between jobs, not for complete government care package (although it often does not work out like that).

Your points about the minimum wage were completely right though.

This is flabbergasting. I guess I am new to these boards, and internet boards in general, so when I made a joke post & quoted statistics, people would realize it was a joke. I was wrong. HOWEVER, having been proved that I was wrong, I posted that it was a joke, and folks needed to lighten up...and STILL I'm getting flamed. Hmmm. Now I guess I have to complete the converse experiment, start a joke post that is over-the-top anti conservative, and see if the lack of humor is spread evenly across the spectrum...

Oooo a jokeryness. Sry man, didn't see the post stating it was a joke and the original post had no indication of being a joke. I didn't take it as a joke because I have actually met people that stupid on internet forums.

I stand in direct opposition to *both* the left and right - I consider them both a threat to American libertarians.
Your endless "I am a Libertarian!" sign-holding is getting a bit tiresome.

What are your thoughts on the blue state lovers in this country? Please, take a moment to let us know....
The perfect people...

The perfect people...

to wrangle cattle on the open plains?

The most I know on the American left is that film The Last Supper

I thought I answered his post in a more civil way. Even if someone says something idiotic, it is not in your best interest to "prove" how idiotic they were with sarcasm. Rather, point out their obvious flaws. It makes you much more understandable.

Not really. That's the mistake liberal politicians keep making. Thinking to themselves "well I have the truth on my side, when intelligent reasonable people of good will put all the facts on the table then they're sure to make the right choice."

Then they go to present their economic plans to the public and conservative politicians say "it's your money! Bums and welfare queens are stealing from you, grrrr! I have an 8th grade education, vote for me"

And the liberal politicians say "well if you'll just take a look at subsection 'E' of paragraph 45 of my 8 year projected economic growth outlook you'll see that employment can be expected to rise by 3% over the next 8 years if we follow my plan and violent crime is likely to drop by 5% over a similar period thereafter."

And the conservative says "It'll drop by a hundred percent if we lock all the bastards up! grrr! vote for me."

And all the voters hear is "grrr vote for me I'm tough and I'm no more educated than you so you know I'm not smart enough to keep secrets," from the conservative.

And when they listen to the liberal they hear, "bla bla bla money talk... no easy solutions... help people... be nice... I'm a homosexual..."

People only listen to intelligent speech when it's wrapped in the form of a joke, why do you think that people are leaving the retarded 24 hour news networks in droves and getting their news from the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. Stupid jackass conservative beats intelligent prudent liberal hands down, but funny intelligent liberal wipes the floor with both of them.

Not really. That's the mistake liberal politicians keep making. Thinking to themselves "well I have the truth on my side, when intelligent reasonable people of good will put all the facts on the table then they're sure to make the right choice."

Then they go to present their economic plans to the public and conservative politicians say "it's your money! Bums and welfare queens are stealing from you, grrrr! I have an 8th grade education, vote for me"

And the liberal politicians say "well if you'll just take a look at subsection 'E' of paragraph 45 of my 8 year projected economic growth outlook you'll see that employment can be expected to rise by 3% over the next 8 years if we follow my plan and violent crime is likely to drop by 5% over a similar period thereafter."

And the conservative says "It'll drop by a hundred percent if we lock all the bastards up! grrr! vote for me."

And all the voters hear is "grrr vote for me I'm tough and I'm no more educated than you so you know I'm not smart enough to keep secrets," from the conservative.

And when they listen to the liberal they hear, "bla bla bla money talk... no easy solutions... help people... be nice... I'm a homosexual..."

People only listen to intelligent speech when it's wrapped in the form of a joke, why do you think that people are leaving the retarded 24 hour news networks in droves and getting their news from the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. Stupid jackass conservative beats intelligent prudent liberal hands down, but funny intelligent liberal wipes the floor with both of them.

Hmm, it seems you have a point here. :p

Then they go to present their economic plans to the public and conservative politicians say "it's your money! Bums and welfare queens are stealing from you, grrrr! I have an 8th grade education, vote for me"

Let me guess...hard core liberal?
All conservatives are dumb and inflammatory and all liberals are dry and intelligent?
And the reason all the dum-dums in the US vote conservative is they are too dumb to realize they are being duped?
I don't suppose you see anything elitist, egotistical, or fundamentally UNliberal about any of that, do you?

Let me guess...hard core liberal?
All conservatives are dumb and inflammatory and all liberals are dry and intelligent?
And the reason all the dum-dums in the US vote conservative is they are too dumb to realize they are being duped?
I don't suppose you see anything elitist, egotistical, or fundamentally UNliberal about any of that, do you?

Last I checked, the majority of human beings are idiots.

The trick is that average people are intimidated by logical argument that lacks emotional zeal.

There is reason to believe, for instance, that Dubya's mentally retarded act is, in fact, an act, to make him seem like an average Joe. An average Joe who has access to the largest arsenal of weapons in history. But hey, they can identify with him.

And before you start pulling the "Liberal Commie!" bull, I was a republican up until I heard the term "Axis of Evil", and became moderate that very instant.

I refuse to be part of a party run by a preacher. Both sides are full of idiots, but the liberals at least do have people who are intellectual. The right is led by people who win by emotional appeals.

They're both corrupt, they're both insipid, they're both bad for the country.

But at least one doesn't make its living off of acting like they're fresh from the trailor park.

Last I checked, the majority of human beings are idiots.
Wow. Well, good luck pal. Maybe, someday, come back and visit the rest of the human race.

Wow. Well, good luck pal. Maybe, someday, come back and visit the rest of the human race.

Nah. You can keep your people with mule girlfriends.

I'll stick with the med students I've been dating.

Nah. You can keep your people with mule girlfriends.

I'll stick with the med students I've been dating.
Nothing says success like bragging about it on the internet!

Nothing says success like bragging about it on the internet!

And nothing says defensive like negative insuation.

-Ignorant
-Spiteful
-Hateful
-Despicable
-Unprincipled
-Immoral
-Disgusting
-Disturbing
-Deranged
-The super happy fuzzy swell rabbits of joylandGeorge Bush it is.

Excuse me?

Sounds like I got a bite :p

The most I know on the American left is that film The Last Supper

Great movie.

And pratically a documentary on liberals! ;) :D

I'm sorry, I gotta disagree about Green Day. They were a good, if kind of redundant punk band. Now, they have moved past the teenage punk music into some more serious rock. I think their best days lie ahead of them.

Rubbish. Dookie was their best album, and therv'e been going downhill ever since.

:) I tend to be a fan of all rock but I am "light" on 80's bands (I mean there are some like metalica and van halen that played through the 80's that I like) but have a tendancy to dislike a lot of the pop or hair bands of the day
Try listening to some early 80's Aussie stuff like Australian Crawl, songs of theirs like Daughters of the Northern rivers, Errol, Boys light up, and my favourite Downhearted, are just gold.

You said:

"Their the ones I would have picked, happy happy joy joy when you agree with them, and deranged when you disagree.
Its a combination of cowardice encouraged by poor values taught by parents, who dont value courage in their kids, as they have none themselves, and way, way too much drug taking."

This was regarding calling liberals either "deranged" or "happy happy..."


How does this not mean that you are implying liberals' parents don't have values, and take too many drugs?

I told Liberals, the comment wasnt aimed directly at his parents, he hasnt taken further issue with it since, and to be frank, it really doesnt involve you.

What are your thoughts on the blue state lovers in this country? Please, take a moment to let us know....

Here's my thoughts: Your poll is biased and retarded, therefor clearly demonstrating your lack of ability to start a thread based on centrism and unbiased interest in the subject. Your mind is already made up, and thus, it becomes a simple excercise in tedious bullshit repetition to participate in your right leaning thread.

In the future, if you want non biased opinion, start a non biased thread with poll options that favor, at once, both sides, and again, neither. In closing, I will lend my biased opinion to your biased thread. You're a neo-facist. There, happy now?

I told Liberals, the comment wasnt aimed directly at his parents, he hasnt taken further issue with it since, and to be frank, it really doesnt involve you.

Wait... there's a person on here named "Liberals"? :eek:

If so, sorry, I misunderstood. I apologize.

Here's my thoughts: Your poll is biased and retarded, therefor clearly demonstrating your lack of ability to start a thread based on centrism and unbiased interest in the subject. Your mind is already made up, and thus, it becomes a simple excercise in tedious bullshit repetition to participate in your right leaning thread.

In the future, if you want non biased opinion, start a non biased thread with poll options that favor, at once, both sides, and again, neither. In closing, I will lend my biased opinion to your biased thread. You're a neo-facist. There, happy now?
You know, he was joking. He said so himself.

What are your thoughts on the blue state lovers in this country? Please, take a moment to let us know....
The American left, like the American right, is rife with fruitcakes and wild Hickory nuts! I'd be hard put to say which has more. :D

Here's my thoughts: Your poll is biased and retarded, therefor clearly demonstrating your lack of ability to start a thread based on centrism and unbiased interest in the subject. Your mind is already made up, and thus, it becomes a simple excercise in tedious bullshit repetition to participate in your right leaning thread.

In the future, if you want non biased opinion, start a non biased thread with poll options that favor, at once, both sides, and again, neither. In closing, I will lend my biased opinion to your biased thread. You're a neo-facist. There, happy now?

Dude, he's already stated twice that it was a joke, and even I (a liberal) got the joke before he had to say it the first time!

Please, read the thread before posting.

Listen you hateful, arrogant xenophobe, etc etc

My aren't you a hateful little leftist. America screwed it up hmm? I guess we are guilty of being the only nation on the planet to support Israel's right to exist. O what horrible hateful, arrogant, blah blah blah , etc we've been for that. I know your kind would MUCH RATHER prefer we let the Arabs finish what Hitler started. But those darn Jews who control the American neo-con government just won't let you have your jew free world. So sorry.

How would you know anything about being mighty? Your country was England's bitch for centuries. It appears you need the history lesson, Britain never spread freedom or democracy. They were just another euro-colonialist looking to rape and pillage for their own wealth and glory. Number of American colonies through history, zero. Still zero, get over it and drop the imperialist straw man.

70% against, rriiiiigght. No more pot for you or your kook minority friend. There's the door, buh bye!

Wait... there's a person on here named "Liberals"? :eek:

If so, sorry, I misunderstood. I apologize.

Actually Ive gone back, and checked and there is no person called 'Liberals' so although it appears now the comment was about you, but it wasnt aimed directly at your own parents, of course not every leftys parents were drugtakers, bnut alot of them were, sorry for the misunderstanding I caused.

Dude, he's already stated twice that it was a joke, and even I (a liberal) got the joke before he had to say it the first time!

Please, read the thread before posting.

HAHAHA..look at me, I'm laughing...hahaha

sarcasm

Number of American colonies through history, zero. Still zero, get over it and drop the imperialist straw man.



So the Eisenhower Presidency's installation of the Shah in Iran somehow doesn't count as colonialism? Wow, I must have checked out of "white is black world" momentarily, so sorry.

HAHAHA..look at me, I'm laughing...hahaha

sarcasm

Wha?

Number of American colonies through history, zero. Still zero, get over it and drop the imperialist straw man.


The Phillipines. Most of what was then Mexico. Puerto Rico. Hawaii. Bunch of islands in the Pacific.

What else? Dollar imperialism. Ever heard of South America and the Monroe Doctrine?

Ever heard of England starting that for their own interest? Ever heard of the fact that until World War Ii America never had the power to back it up?

HAHAHA..look at me, I'm laughing...hahaha

sarcasm
Well, I guess even the mighty Max Barry has critics...I suppose I can suffer this with good grace and dignity.

Of course, the Maxinators critics at least READ HIS BOOK, whereas Mr. Peevish here has CLEARLY NOT EVEN read the post...
But enough. I said I would be a man and not sink to his level. This is me breathing.

But COME ON!!! I said, like a billion times, that it was a joke! I SUPPOSE I CAN HARDLY EXPECT THE TEEMING UNWASHED MASSES TO UNDERSTAND THE BRILLIANCE OF MY HUMOR, BUT AT LEAST THEY COULD UNDERSTAND IT IS HUMOR!
But I'm done. No more flaming. Lets just all get along.

Allright, folks. All is calm again. My Doctor assures me that "Mother's Little Helper" will stop these posts. Just go about your buisiness, nothing to see here.

This thread wins the covetted Most Retarded Poll of the Month award. Kudos!

re·tard·ed (r-tärdd)
adj.

1. Often Offensive. Affected with mental retardation.
2. Occurring or developing later than desired or expected; delayed.

How is the poll delayed? It seems fast to me.. ;)

The American left has its uses, as does any minority party. They are needed to keep the other side from taking complete controle of the counry. However. with the recent bipartisan passing of a bill in Florida which gives gunowners the right to use their guns on fleeing criminals, i don't know if they can even be counted on to balence the system any more. :(

Let me guess...hard core liberal?
All conservatives are dumb and inflammatory and all liberals are dry and intelligent?
And the reason all the dum-dums in the US vote conservative is they are too dumb to realize they are being duped?
I don't suppose you see anything elitist, egotistical, or fundamentally UNliberal about any of that, do you?

No, not all conservatives are idiots. Classic conservatives have an actual point. Neocons are not necessarily stupid, some are just evil. Most are a balance of the two.

I've said this before, but to believe that the party of huge corporations and proflogate military spending (at the behest of huge corporations) is somehow in favor of family values or blue collar ethics is just stupid. To pretend that it is such, is evil. Most conservatives are a balance of the two. Just foolish enough to allow the Republican party to exploit their xenophobia and egoism to vote for them.
Essentially, Conservatives come in 3 varieties.
1) Those who are evil and ignorant. (the Bible Belt)
2) Those who are so evil that hell has opened up and consumed them bodily.(Lee Atwater)
3) Those who are so dense that time and space have collapsed around them forming a black hole removing them from the space time continuum. (the state of Texas)

Only the first of those is still around to vote in any meaningful sense. For those who are wondering, the most morally favorable variety of republican is exemplified in Jessica Simpson, a woman who is so mind-boggelingly stupid as to not know whether tunafish is either a chicken or a fish and that buffalo wings are made of buffalo meat... from the wing of the buffalo. She still suffers from the low-grade moral blot that makes her take joy in the fact that other people can't afford to buy Prada handbags. If you are any less stupid than Jessica Simpson then you have no excuse for voting Republican.

Liberals come in 3 varieties.
1)Those who are ignorant, but virtuous. (sitcom writers)
2)Those who are Intelligent but amoral. (stand-up comics)
3)Those who are Intelligent and virtuous. (Gore Vidal)

I picked misguided, because they're not nearly far enough to the left. :p

No, not all conservatives are idiots. Classic conservatives have an actual point. Neocons are not necessarily stupid, some are just evil. Most are a balance of the two.

I've said this before, but to believe that the party of huge corporations and proflogate military spending (at the behest of huge corporations) is somehow in favor of family values or blue collar ethics is just stupid. To pretend that it is such, is evil. Most conservatives are a balance of the two. Just foolish enough to allow the Republican party to exploit their xenophobia and egoism to vote for them.
Essentially, Conservatives come in 3 varieties.
1) Those who are evil and ignorant. (the Bible Belt)
2) Those who are so evil that hell has opened up and consumed them bodily.(Lee Atwater)
3) Those who are so dense that time and space have collapsed around them forming a black hole removing them from the space time continuum. (the state of Texas)

Only the first of those is still around to vote in any meaningful sense. For those who are wondering, the most morally favorable variety of republican is exemplified in Jessica Simpson, a woman who is so mind-boggelingly stupid as to not know whether tunafish is either a chicken or a fish and that buffalo wings are made of buffalo meat... from the wing of the buffalo. She still suffers from the low-grade moral blot that makes her take joy in the fact that other people can't afford to buy Prada handbags. If you are any less stupid than Jessica Simpson then you have no excuse for voting Republican.

Liberals come in 3 varieties.
1)Those who are ignorant, but virtuous. (sitcom writers)
2)Those who are Intelligent but amoral. (stand-up comics)
3)Those who are Intelligent and virtuous. (Gore Vidal)

Bravo. You went ahead and negated any need for me to point out that hard-core liberals are the stupidest, most intolerant, most close-minded, and most hateful people in the world, seeing as everything you posted is nothing more than inflamatory hate-speech.

I would've voted for "A menace," if it weren't for the fact that American liberals are too stupid, unorganized, and blinded by their hatred and rage to realize that every day they push middle-America further and further towards the right. Come to papa, baby. :D

Bravo. You went ahead and negated any need for me to point out that hard-core liberals are the stupidest, most intolerant, most close-minded, and most hateful people in the world, seeing as everything you posted is nothing more than inflamatory hate-speech.

I would've voted for "A menace," if it weren't for the fact that American liberals are too stupid, unorganized, and blinded by their hatred and rage to realize that every day they push middle-America further and further towards the right. Come to papa, baby. :D

I hardly see how anything I said indicated hatred or rage. Mostly just pity. Unless you're just obsenely rich. You see if you vote republican you're shooting yourself in the foot. Some democrat voters are doing the same, supporters of Joe Biden and Lieberman for example, but for the most part republican voters are just screwing themselves and attacking the only people who are trying to give them some good advice.

Take the recent republican "sodomize the working class" bill. The one that makes it so that ordinary people can't file for bankrupcy, but really rich people can. Before you say that bankrupcy is just a means for people to defraud the poor imperiled credit card companies, 90% of bankrupcy cases are due to catastrophic medical emergencies, or divorce. i.e. by voting republican you fucked yourself.

If you'd like to demonstrate to me how my opposition to the republican party is somehow unwarranted, I'd like to hear it, otherwise I'll just have to assume that you're an idiot for thinking that disagreeing, vehemently, with republican politics is somehow "hateful" in the abstract. I.E. you belong in the "Jessica Simpson" branch of the republican party, except instead of taking joy in other people being too poor to afford Prada, you take joy in their disappointment at seeing them be unhappy to be aware that America is being flushed down the toilet by "your team," while you indulge yourself in your ability to be ignorant of the harm your party is inflicting on the country.

I'd say that we're a menace, though, only to your mom.

Yeah. She's one helluva drunken...I'll stop there XD

No, not all conservatives are idiots. Classic conservatives have an actual point. Neocons are not necessarily stupid, some are just evil. Most are a balance of the two.
I've said this before, but to believe that the party of huge corporations and proflogate military spending (at the behest of huge corporations) is somehow in favor of family values or blue collar ethics is just stupid. To pretend that it is such, is evil. Most conservatives are a balance of the two. Just foolish enough to allow the Republican party to exploit their xenophobia and egoism to vote for them.
Essentially, Conservatives come in 3 varieties.
1) Those who are evil and ignorant. (the Bible Belt)
2) Those who are so evil that hell has opened up and consumed them bodily.(Lee Atwater)
3) Those who are so dense that time and space have collapsed around them forming a black hole removing them from the space time continuum. (the state of Texas)

Dude, I love this. But you must be either:
1) Egotistical, closed minded, and inflammatory to get attention (Al Franken)
2) So egotistical and opaque to new ideas that you honestly believe anyone who doesn't agree with you at this second is an idiot (Howard Stern)
3) So incredibly inflammatory that EVERYTHING you say has to be over the top (Al Sharpton)

Honestly, what is your goal here? Do you believe that conservatives will read this and be converted? Do you believe other liberals will read this and be inspired?

This kind of stuff is great if you whole goal in life is to piss everybody off on both sides or, like Al Franken and Ann Coulter, you wanna make a lot of money off being an ass.
I hardly see how anything I said indicated hatred or rage. Mostly just pity. Unless you're just obsenely rich. You see if you vote republican you're shooting yourself in the foot. Some democrat voters are doing the same, supporters of Joe Biden and Lieberman for example, but for the most part republican voters are just screwing themselves and attacking the only people who are trying to give them some good advice.

Take the recent republican "sodomize the working class" bill. The one that makes it so that ordinary people can't file for bankrupcy, but really rich people can. Before you say that bankrupcy is just a means for people to defraud the poor imperiled credit card companies, 90% of bankrupcy cases are due to catastrophic medical emergencies, or divorce. i.e. by voting republican you fucked yourself.

If you'd like to demonstrate to me how my opposition to the republican party is somehow unwarranted, I'd like to hear it, otherwise I'll just have to assume that you're an idiot for thinking that disagreeing, vehemently, with republican politics is somehow "hateful" in the abstract. I.E. you belong in the "Jessica Simpson" branch of the republican party, except instead of taking joy in other people being too poor to afford Prada, you take joy in their disappointment at seeing them be unhappy to be aware that America is being flushed down the toilet by "your team," while you indulge yourself in your ability to be ignorant of the harm your party is inflicting on the country.
This is even better. FIRST, describe how insulting, derogatory rhetoric isn't hate speech (white supremacists would be proud - even the "I don't hate them. I just pity them." stuff works great for them!) THEN spout of some one sided jabbering on a complex issue, include some statistics that originated from an INCREDIBLY liberal source and misquote them even still, and then challenge anyone to argue! You should have your own talk radio show, dude! I love it!

The American left, like the American right, is rife with fruitcakes and wild Hickory nuts! I'd be hard put to say which has more. :D


Heh, I actually find myself really disliking a lot of people in RL who have the same political ideals as me. Bloody hippies.

My opinion of the American left is that it would be nice if there was one. :p

Heh, I actually find myself really disliking a lot of people in RL who have the same political ideals as me. Bloody hippies.
Amen brother. I'm conservative, but the most irritating political activist on my campus is hard-core republican. I'm always getting yelled at by folks who know I'm conservative, and therefore MUST share the same view with this Neo-Con extremist nutbag...

My aren't you a hateful little leftist.
I'm not a leftist. I see you are a part of the "idiot Right" that equates lack of support for Bush with communism.

America screwed it up hmm? I guess we are guilty of being the only nation on the planet to support Israel's right to exist. O what horrible hateful, arrogant, blah blah blah , etc we've been for that. I know your kind would MUCH RATHER prefer we let the Arabs finish what Hitler started. But those darn Jews who control the American neo-con government just won't let you have your jew free world. So sorry.
Everyone except the likes of Iran and Arabia supports Israel's right to exist. The EU is its biggest trading partner.

How dare you accuse me of being a Nazi. I have Jewish friends, and they would agree with what I told you. Here's another thing they agree with: with its torture camps for Muslims, the USA of today is closer to Nazism than any European country.

How would you know anything about being mighty? Your country was England's bitch for centuries.
Way to miss the point, jackass. I know might doesn't make right because my country was a colony.

It appears you need the history lesson, Britain never spread freedom or democracy. They were just another euro-colonialist looking to rape and pillage for their own wealth and glory. Number of American colonies through history, zero. Still zero, get over it and drop the imperialist straw man.
You misunderstand. Britain thought they were spreading freedom, when they were merely imperialist. I'm saying that America is the same. I cannot believe that you can say with a straight face that America only wants to spread freedom. Brits were saying the EXACT SAME THING 100 years ago.

Number of American colonies through history, zero. Still zero, get over it and drop the imperialist straw man.
The Phillipines? Hawaii? Peurto Rico? ( The latter two are still a colonies.) You Americans are just as imperialist as any Euro-power in the 19th century.

70% against, rriiiiigght. No more pot for you or your kook minority friend. There's the door, buh bye!
That's right, the majority of Brits are not warmongering gun-toting neocons lusting for war. Blair's majority was cut by over 60%, because of the war. But you didn't know that, did you?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4521337.stm

No more creatine for you, cowboy.

----

I can't believe someone can be so hateful to people who never did anything to him. This guy should be banned.

The Phillipines? Hawaii? Peurto Rico? ( The latter two are still a colonies.) You Americans are just as imperialist as any Euro-power in the 19th century.


The US also has quite a few colonies in the Pacific, incidentally. And I do mean colonies, in addition to a few satellite nations.

Seems I've missed a little fun ....Northern Fox , your the type who are of greatest concern . You cocksure arrogance proves nothing and your attitude to the rest of the world's population (bar the ones you apparently rescued) is tragic .

I am NOT anti american , our society (Australia by the way not Britain)is rapidly declining and following a path near identical to yours and it is sad because this really is the lucky country...USA has set the example and were blindly following it down what I see as a sad path , I still dont understand why

Now get this straight, your passion over the death of 3000 americans at the hands of terrorists is noble . Do you feel the same about the number of American shooting victims killed at the hands of Americans every year , are you as passionate about that ? I doubt it unless you've felt that pain personally ...what have you personally done to bring about gun control reforms ?? remember you guys butcher more of your own than any lunatic terrorist could ever manage

I apologize that this has gotten way out of hand and way off topic and Im sorry for enticing Northern Fox to speak his mind but I had to reply to his rubbish

The US also has quite a few colonies in the Pacific, incidentally. And I do mean colonies, in addition to a few satellite nations.
It could even be argued that the States west of the Mississippi are also a part of the American Empire.

There's an American left? When did this happen and why did nobody inform me?

The Phillipines? Hawaii? Peurto Rico? ( The latter two are still a colonies.) You Americans are just as imperialist as any Euro-power in the 19th century.


Ummm . . . Hawaii is a colony?

As for Puerto Rico, if I understand correctly, they do not want to become a state or become independent. I could be mistaken, though.

It could even be argued that the States west of the Mississippi are also a part of the American Empire.

Well, if I understand the idea correctly and empire is a single government that controls other countries. The Federal government controls 50 states (up until the US federalised 'state' was understood to mean country), several countries in central America and the middle east, and several protectorates and commonwealth nations.

The only ingredient missing is a single sovreign ruler. Oh, wait, Bush has the Unilateral power to make (if not declare) war, appropriates money for his own agenda (the sole province of the Congress), and was never duly elected.

Viola, the United States is actually the Washingtonian Empire.

Well, if I understand the idea correctly and empire is a single government that controls other countries. The Federal government controls 50 states (up until the US federalised 'state' was understood to mean country), several countries in central America and the middle east, and several protectorates and commonwealth nations.

The only ingredient missing is a single sovreign ruler. Oh, wait, Bush has the Unilateral power to make (if not declare) war, appropriates money for his own agenda (the sole province of the Congress), and was never duly elected.

Viola, the United States is actually the Washingtonian Empire.
You kick ass dude. Seriously. Master of hyperbole and exaggeration. King of the inflamed political argument. Conqueror and destroyer of intelligent debate. Sovereign of the soundbite.

Well, if I understand the idea correctly and empire is a single government that controls other countries. The Federal government controls 50 states (up until the US federalised 'state' was understood to mean country), several countries in central America and the middle east, and several protectorates and commonwealth nations.

The only ingredient missing is a single sovreign ruler. Oh, wait, Bush has the Unilateral power to make (if not declare) war, appropriates money for his own agenda (the sole province of the Congress), and was never duly elected.

Viola, the United States is actually the Washingtonian Empire.
You kick ass dude. Seriously. Master of hyperbole and exaggeration. King of the inflamed political argument. Conqueror and destroyer of intelligent debate. Sovereign of the soundbite.

Dude, I love this. But you must be either:
1) Egotistical, closed minded, and inflammatory to get attention (Al Franken)
2) So egotistical and opaque to new ideas that you honestly believe anyone who doesn't agree with you at this second is an idiot (Howard Stern)
3) So incredibly inflammatory that EVERYTHING you say has to be over the top (Al Sharpton)

Na. I'm hardly closed to new ideas. Conservatives don't have any new ideas. Destroying social security is something that they've been trying to do since FDR implemented it. The bankrupcy thing is something they've been trying to do since at least 1910. At this point Neo-Con politics are so thoroughly debunked that to give them credence you have to be an idiot or just new to the debate. If you are the latter you should have done your research and not spouted off pro-Bush ignorance.

It is possible to be a reasonalbe and moral classic conservative. I.E. you believe in the seperation of church and state, pro-capitalist, limited government intervention etc. This means that unions should be free to form, government can neither tax, nor give money to religious institutions, and yes, you're opposed to government social welfare programs. I don't agree with all of that (most of it, but not all of it) but I'm willing to concede that they have a point.

The neocon position is so thoroughly filled with such blatant lies that those who espouse them must be evil, the truth has been out for so long that those who believe them are all stupid. Not merely misguided, or on another side of the debate than me, but stark, gibbering, drooling-on-their-shoes, votes-on-the-basis-of-willingness-to-eat-meatloaf, idiots.

Honestly, what is your goal here? Do you believe that conservatives will read this and be converted? Do you believe other liberals will read this and be inspired?

Nope, just expressing an honest opinion.

This kind of stuff is great if you whole goal in life is to piss everybody off on both sides or, like Al Franken and Ann Coulter, you wanna make a lot of money off being an ass.

Ann Coulter and Al Franken are not two sides of the same coin. Ann Coulter advocates state sanctioned murder (not the death penalty for murder, but political executions) to "physically intimidate liberals into realizing that they can be killed too," all Al Franken does is look up stuff that conservatives say and get the real statistics. To compare one to the other as somehow equivalent is just idiotic.

This is even better. FIRST, describe how insulting, derogatory rhetoric isn't hate speech (white supremacists would be proud - even the "I don't hate them. I just pity them." stuff works great for them!) THEN spout of some one sided jabbering on a complex issue, include some statistics that originated from an INCREDIBLY liberal source and misquote them even still, and then challenge anyone to argue! You should have your own talk radio show, dude! I love it!

It isn't. Hate speech means that you advocate the destruction or disenfranchisment of a population. If I advocated bombing red voting districts or classifying the Republican party as an organization that has risen in rebellion against the united states (making anyone who registered as a republican ineligible for office) that might be hate speech. Saying that you are angry at those who advocate stupidity, vice, and hypocrisy isn't hate speech. It's anger. If I didn't display it you'd call me one of those "spineless liberals who sits on the fence and is afraid to speak up for what he believes in."

I'll say it again. There is such a thing as a moral and reasonable conservative. You know how you recognize them? They have pro-Kerry bumper stickers on their SUV's.

There is no middle ground here. If you're pro-Bush you're either an idiot or you're evil.

There is no middle ground here. If you're pro-Bush you're either an idiot or you're evil.
:) Once again dude, if you ever feel like rejoining the human race, just say so. There is probably room left for you, somewhere.

:) Once again dude, if you ever feel like rejoining the human race, just say so. There is probably room left for you, somewhere.

I'm a fully paid up member. It's the Arien race I've opted out of (that's not a misspelled allusion to the xenophobia and white-supremacy so rife in conservative politics these days. Aries is the taxanomological name for sheep).

And I don't remember who the first person you told to join the human race was, but it wasn't me.

please dont call it the left,..

really its the far right and the even further right, when compared to global politics and most importantly british politics since thats where the terms left and right came from originally

I'll say it again. There is such a thing as a moral and reasonable conservative. You know how you recognize them? They have pro-Kerry bumper stickers on their SUV's.

There is no middle ground here. If you're pro-Bush you're either an idiot or you're evil.

Funny thing - you Americans don't seem to realise that all of your politics is conservative. All of it. Not necessarily all of your politicians, or all of your ideals, but your politics, Bush or Kerry, unswervingly further right than, say, good old Blighty, even though we be your 51st state.

You kick ass dude. Seriously. Master of hyperbole and exaggeration. King of the inflamed political argument. Conqueror and destroyer of intelligent debate. Sovereign of the soundbite.

As my initial entry into this debate pointed out, conservatives are impervious to intelligent well reasoned debate. They're shackled to this outdated chauvinist ethic that implicitly judges all behavior based on gender appropriatness, but only recognizes character flaws, not actual virtues. That's why there's such opposition to feminism in conservative politics.

To a conservative:
There is no real strength, only cruelty. That's why Jeb Bush, intending to demonstrate how Dubya has always been strong told a story about how Dubya used to shoot him with a BB gun as a hobby.

There is no prudent position, only radical opinions. That's why anyone they disagree with is either an indecicive fence sitter or a dangerous enemy.

There is no intelligence, only faith, and intellectual snobbery.

Even a normal chauvinist will acknowledge that it is possible for a person to demonstrate a virtue that is out of the ordinary, but will just assume that members of the "appropriate" group are demonstrating a virtue until proven otherwise, and those outside of it are demonstrating flaws until proven otherwise.

e.g. an angry woman is demonstrating an inability to control her emotions, and angry man is displaying virile aggresive defense of his position. A peacemaking woman is demonstrating a feminine ability to establish communication and see other people's points of view, a guy who does that is a fag.

But neo-con's put these run of the mill chauvinists to shame. To them a liberal can be both cowardly, indecisive and stupid, while also being an elitist intellectual and a dangerous militant radical. Modern mastry of double-think.

New Watenho']Funny thing - you Americans don't seem to realise that all of your politics is conservative. All of it. Not necessarily all of your politicians, or all of your ideals, but your politics, Bush or Kerry, unswervingly further right than, say, good old Blighty, even though we be your 51st state.

That's like saying that all our politicians favor having a public deficit. Under Clinton our debt stopped growing, but we weren't "in the black" yet. Under Bush our debt has, once again, surged. By this logic Clinton is pro-debt, only less so than all the republicans of the last 30 years.

Kerry favored allowing ordinary people to buy the same health insurance that Senators get. That's not exactly socialized healthcare, but Bush not only opposed that idea (on the grounds that it would increase spending ha!) but his decisions while in office show that he is actually against poor people being able to get health care.

Kerry is hardly a socialist (we actually have a socialist party, and I think they ran a candidate) but he is to the left of Bush, and we're not going to get an actual leftist government until we've had a succession of presidents each to the left of his predecessor. I'd say Kucinich had been pretty left-wing in his politics. He advocated legislating marijuana the same way we do tobacco and alcohol. That's why he only just barely got over 1% in a few districts in the primaries.

There's an american left?!

Oh by the way.. the terms left and right come from France, not Britain.

Why bother posting a poll that has no choices but one? :rolleyes:

This poll gets my vote as 'single-worst-devised NS poll of A.D. 2005'.

I'm not a leftist. I see you are a part of the "idiot Right" that equates lack of support for Bush with communism.


Everyone except the likes of Iran and Arabia supports Israel's right to exist. The EU is its biggest trading partner.

How dare you accuse me of being a Nazi. I have Jewish friends, and they would agree with what I told you. Here's another thing they agree with: with its torture camps for Muslims, the USA of today is closer to Nazism than any European country.


Way to miss the point, jackass. I know might doesn't make right because my country was a colony.


You misunderstand. Britain thought they were spreading freedom, when they were merely imperialist. I'm saying that America is the same. I cannot believe that you can say with a straight face that America only wants to spread freedom. Brits were saying the EXACT SAME THING 100 years ago.


The Phillipines? Hawaii? Peurto Rico? ( The latter two are still a colonies.) You Americans are just as imperialist as any Euro-power in the 19th century.


That's right, the majority of Brits are not warmongering gun-toting neocons lusting for war. Blair's majority was cut by over 60%, because of the war. But you didn't know that, did you?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4521337.stm

No more creatine for you, cowboy.

----

I can't believe someone can be so hateful to people who never did anything to him. This guy should be banned.

He won't be banned but you will be warned for flame/baiting as per the post quoted above.

Expect a telegram from me shortly.

How can I be sure that I'm speaking the truth that leftists don't want to hear? Within 2 replies free from racist remarks or profanity there is a call for me to be banned. That call is brought forth by the "Free speech" loving, "debate" supporting, "open minded" left. Once again practicing their tactic of "If you can't beat them, get the government to censor them."

Ian, your nation became free because real men worked, planned and struggled towards making England relinquish it's control. (And pressure from America post WWI) Half-men like you gave England the confidence that Ireland could remain subjugated for centuries. Empty words and empty rhetoric have never freed anyone. Not your people, not Europe-twice, not Afghanistan and not Iraq. Blood, sweat and action are needed. BTW, the Philippines are and have been a sovereign independent nation. Hawaii is a state with all rights and privileges of being a state. Puerto Rico has seen it's citizens repeatedly express their will at the ballot box to remain a part of the US. We mainlanders would love for that tax sinkhole to succeed. Also, the spell checker is your friend. Game, set and match. Perhaps you should be more angry about how the schools have failed you so badly.

Cowboy? Well let me say a big "YEEEHAW!" to that. I'm guessing step #21523 in The Anti-American Rhetoric Handbook now tells you to insinuate I think real life is all a John Wayne movie.

You've missed more than a little fun Mircosis. It can be rather enjoyable pointing out the iceberg sized logic holes of the left. That "cocksure arrogance" from being the greatest and most successful nation on earth today. The "attitude to the rest of the world's population" comes from watching you people make the same mistakes again and again yet learning nothing from it. It baffles our minds how after 2 centuries of failure you people still think you can "negotiate" and "get along" with evil. What Americans do to Americans is tragic and something we need to deal with. What a death cult masquerading as a major world religion does to us is another matter entirely. Perhaps you should think twice before telling us how to run our own matters as it refers to foreign nationals. You don't see us telling you how to handle the hundreds of thousands of "poor Indonesian refugees" using all manner of boats to try and "seek a better life" in Australia. Nor do we comment on how the "heartless Australian people" use their "naval warships to bully them into returning to lives of poverty and squalor."

Cowboy? Well let me say a big "YEEEHAW!" to that. I'm guessing step #21523 in The Anti-American Rhetoric Handbook now tells you to insinuate I think real life is all a John Wayne movie.

You've missed more than a little fun Mircosis. It can be rather enjoyable pointing out the iceberg sized logic holes of the left. That "cocksure arrogance" from being the greatest and most successful nation on earth today. The "attitude to the rest of the world's population" comes from watching you people make the same mistakes again and again yet learning nothing from it. It baffles our minds how after 2 centuries of failure you people still think you can "negotiate" and "get along" with evil. What Americans do to Americans is tragic and something we need to deal with. What a death cult masquerading as a major world religion does to us is another matter entirely. Perhaps you should think twice before telling us how to run our own matters as it refers to foreign nationals. You don't see us telling you how to handle the hundreds of thousands of "poor Indonesian refugees" using all manner of boats to try and "seek a better life" in Australia. Nor do we comment on how the "heartless Australian people" use their "naval warships to bully them into returning to lives of poverty and squalor."

Wow. So much hypocrisy in such a little space. "Negotiate with evil"? Perhaps you should read up on our intervention in central america and take a look at the murderous regimes that we admit to instaling there. Do you really think that the exact same politicians who do that are in fact trying to remove evil and tyranny from the Middle East? Why haven't we invaded Saundi Arabia?

Iran was in the process of democratizing before we invaded Iraq, and now they've put that debate on the back burner to focus on how much they hate us.

The Republican party has done more to "negotiate with evil" than any group in this country's history. "give us oil at a good price and we'll give you missles, guns, and money to support your dictatorial regime, try to stabalize your political climate and we'll donate bombs, guns and money to replace you with a newer less compotent dictatorial regime." That's what we did in Nicaragua, Iran, Panama, Guatemala, Honduras... We tried it in Iraq, but then backed out and let the Kurds get massacred. Then we decided that it's easier to just attack him with rent-a-troops.

How can I be sure that I'm speaking the truth that leftists don't want to hear? Within 2 replies free from racist remarks or profanity there is a call for me to be banned. That call is brought forth by the "Free speech" loving, "debate" supporting, "open minded" left. Once again practicing their tactic of "If you can't beat them, get the government to censor them."
Alright, before I address the rest of your post, prove that I am a leftist.

I called for you to be banned not because you're conservative, but because you called me a Nazi.

I called for you to be banned not because you're conservative, but because you called me a Nazi.

...which is an almost plausible reason to ban someone. :rolleyes:

I'd advise you and Northern Fox to aovid speaking to each other if you can't do so civilly.

I'd advise you and Northern Fox to aovid speaking to each other if you can't do so civilly.
I don't know why you're warning me. He's making most of the ad hominem attacks.

Ummm . . . Hawaii is a colony?

As for Puerto Rico, if I understand correctly, they do not want to become a state or become independent. I could be mistaken, though.
Yes, they are colonies. Hawaii was annexed/conquered by the USA in the mid-19th century. Just because it is a state, or wants to remain in union with the USA, doesn't mean it's not a colony.

The Phillipines and Peurto Rico were conquered by the US at the end of the 19th century in the Spanish-American war.

Well, if I understand the idea correctly and empire is a single government that controls other countries. The Federal government controls 50 states (up until the US federalised 'state' was understood to mean country), several countries in central America and the middle east, and several protectorates and commonwealth nations.

The only ingredient missing is a single sovreign ruler. Oh, wait, Bush has the Unilateral power to make (if not declare) war, appropriates money for his own agenda (the sole province of the Congress), and was never duly elected.

Viola, the United States is actually the Washingtonian Empire.
Just because the colony has a regional government, it is still a colony at the command of the central government.

Also, about the ruler, Bush was duly elected; but an empire does not require an unelected dictator to be an empire.

really its the far right and the even further right, when compared to global politics and most importantly british politics since thats where the terms left and right came from originally
Actually, Left and Right came from French politics.

A peacemaking woman is demonstrating a feminine ability to establish communication and see other people's points of view, a guy who does that is a fag.

But neo-con's put these run of the mill chauvinists to shame. To them a liberal can be both cowardly, indecisive and stupid, while also being an elitist intellectual and a dangerous militant radical. Modern mastry of double-think.
Yeah, I've noticed how the Republicans really try to go for the "testosterone" market of voters.

Ahhh, gimme a break, there's way better reasons to ban someone than this piffle. This exchange barely registers on radar...

By the way, the above poll STILL SUCKS BATH-WATER!

I don't know why you're warning me. He's making most of the ad hominem attacks.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ad%20hominem

Read it. Learn it. Live it.

At any rate I've yet to see any of this from Northern Fox; if you could telegram me with some links perhaps; it may have happened earlier in the thread.

The left and right each have thier good ideas. I think folks who ither go all left or all right are tools.

SIGNED.

There's an american left?!

Oh by the way.. the terms left and right come from France, not Britain.

wrong they actually came from the 2 sides of the house of commons

no sorry i just looked it up on wikipedia, it seems it did come from france after all, odd I'm sure I remember reading that they came from the commons somewhere, perhaps they both started it

He won't be banned but you will be warned for flame/baiting as per the post quoted above.

Expect a telegram from me shortly.


The guy makes fair comment though, I don't see why he should get a warning for that post, it seemed perfectly in proportion to what the other guy said.

Fight the power of the mods!!!

The American Left is more right wing that the European Right.

The American Left is more right wing that the European Right.
No, it's not.

The American Left is more right wing that the European Right.
at least the Right (conservatives) in the UK will keep the NHS. i hear that the prospect of medicare/state funded healthcare has been all but shot down by Bush in the US

there's some truth there methinks

What do you think of the American left?



You mean there are communist, socialist or green parties in the US?

What do you think of the American left?



You mean there are communist, socialist or green parties in the US?Yes, there are, but they have no power at all. Everything is controlled by the Democrats (i.e. the Liberal Conservatives) and the Republicans (i.e. the Traditional Progressives).

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

wrong they actually came from the 2 sides of the house of commons

Wrong. They come from the way the French Parliament was set out just after the Revolution.

Edit: And if you don't believe me:


Historical origin of the terms
The terms Left and Right to refer to political affiliation originated early in the French Revolutionary era, and referred originally to the seating arrangements in the various legislative bodies of France. The aristocracy sat on the right of the Speaker (traditionally the seat of honor) and the commoners sat on the Left, hence the terms Right-wing politics and Left-wing politics.

Originally, the defining point on the ideological spectrum was the ancien régime ("old order"). "The Right" thus implied support for aristocratic or royal interests, while "The Left" implied opposition to the same. Because the political franchise at the start of the revolution was relatively narrow, the original "Left" represented mainly the interests of the bourgeoisie, the rising capitalist class. At that time, support for laissez-faire capitalism and Free markets were counted as being on the left; today in most Western countries these views would be characterized as being on the Right.

As the franchise expanded over the next several years, it became clear that there was something to the left of that original "Left": the precursors of socialism and communism, advocating the interests of wage-earners and peasants.


(Source (http://www.answers.com/topic/political-spectrum))

Ann Coulter and Al Franken are not two sides of the same coin. Ann Coulter advocates state sanctioned murder (not the death penalty for murder, but political executions) to "physically intimidate liberals into realizing that they can be killed too," all Al Franken does is look up stuff that conservatives say and get the real statistics. To compare one to the other as somehow equivalent is just idiotic.

Didn't you know, the truth is worse then murder.

What are your thoughts on the blue state lovers in this country? Please, take a moment to let us know....

Um if there anything like the Aussie variety, a pack of gutless turds.

He needed to add an all-of-the-above to that selection. It was so hard to choose :mad: