NationStates Jolt Archive

I got in a lot of trouble today because a teacher overheard my conversation with a friend. I called her the 'N' word in a greeting and the teacher gave me an unfair punishment. The thing is, we always use the 'N' word because it's cool between us colored people. Should a racial slur still be an offensive word if it's being used by the people it affects in a mutual understanding?

My, that's a hypersensitive teacher with no sense of perspective. You've been hard done by there.

If we (crackers) cant say it, than you cant either. Simple as that.

And what about me calling you colored? Wouldnt that offend you?

And what about me calling you colored? Wouldnt that offend you?
Depends on how you use it...

sorry, you have no first amendment, or, indeed, any rights short of the right to not get beaten (according to scalia) inside the bounds of a public school. that, and pretty much any other racial epithet are, as a genera rule, not to be said, at least within the earshot of a school administrator. while i certainly agree that there is no reason why i can't call fellow crackers things like honkey, i would feel no surprise if a teacher got offended by it.

I think you should have the freedom to say whatever you want, except maybe slander, lies, and flaming. However, if what you say is offensive, expect a slap in the face.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I think you should have the freedom to say whatever you want, except maybe slander, lies, and flaming. However, if what you say is offensive, expect a slap in the face.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
very sad. i believe anyone should have the right to say anything they want no matter how offensive or repulsive. so long as they dont force their views onto me then i don't give a shit. thats the beauty (or was) of the first ammendment.

Last year, I worked at a Kohl's department store on the night crew. My boss was black, and the same age as I, so we joked around alot. One of his favorite things to do (go figure) was, whenever I asked him to get me something or do something for me, he would respond in the stereotypical slave manner, "Yes massah" and the like, to which I would call him some vaguely racist term (usually just "negro" or "Uncle Tom"). He thought it was hysterical for some reason. Anyway, one of our other co-workers was a born again Christian, white and from Wisconsin, and she overheard me one day call him "Negro", and reported me to management. I got written up and disciplined and everything for it until I told my boss and he set the record straight.

Thought you'd appreciate the sympathy. I know what you're talking about, sort of.

I think it's okay in your case, but you really shouldn't say anything in school without raising your hand first, 'cuz otherwise you're going to get whacked. Heck, I got throttled just for throwin' raisins the other day. As if anyone's going to get hurt by raisins. Give me a break. In school it's best to keep your mouth shut, whether you think you're right or not, because as soon as you enter those doors, the law(which, ironically, forces you to attend) is now obsolete as it pertains to you. Where else would you be forced to stay after hours just for having a friendly conversation? Maybe a stern look from your boss, but not mandatory overtime I think not. As long as it didn't interfere with your work(which, contrary to popular belief, rarely happens), you should be cool, but no. No matter what, keep your eyes and your ears open for the secret police that are employed by the school for no other reason than to eavesdrop on your conversations and spy on what your doing. Don't give up.

I think it's okay in your case, but you really shouldn't say anything in school without raising your hand first, 'cuz otherwise you're going to get whacked. Heck, I got throttled just for throwin' raisins the other day. As if anyone's going to get hurt by raisins. Give me a break. In school it's best to keep your mouth shut, whether you think you're right or not, because as soon as you enter those doors, the law(which, ironically, forces you to attend) is now obsolete as it pertains to you. Where else would you be forced to stay after hours just for having a friendly conversation? Maybe a stern look from your boss, but not mandatory overtime I think not. As long as it didn't interfere with your work(which, contrary to popular belief, rarely happens), you should be cool, but no. No matter what, keep your eyes and your ears open for the secret police that are employed by the school for no other reason than to eavesdrop on your conversations and spy on what your doing. Don't give up.
Wu Tang Financial, Woot!

I'm African American and I don't even let other African Americans call me that. The "N word" is a VERY derogitory term that I do not desire to be called or associated with in any way, shape, or form. Using the word so normally as if it were a good thing, to me, is an insult to the people who came before me and worked so hard and faced so much bullshit in order to NOT be called that. I wish to be the best I can be in my life because I don't want the contributions of my predecessors to be nothing but a meaningless waste.

I think it's okay in your case, but you really shouldn't say anything in school without raising your hand first, 'cuz otherwise you're going to get whacked. Heck, I got throttled just for throwin' raisins the other day. As if anyone's going to get hurt by raisins. Give me a break. In school it's best to keep your mouth shut, whether you think you're right or not, because as soon as you enter those doors, the law(which, ironically, forces you to attend) is now obsolete as it pertains to you. Where else would you be forced to stay after hours just for having a friendly conversation? Maybe a stern look from your boss, but not mandatory overtime I think not. As long as it didn't interfere with your work(which, contrary to popular belief, rarely happens), you should be cool, but no. No matter what, keep your eyes and your ears open for the secret police that are employed by the school for no other reason than to eavesdrop on your conversations and spy on what your doing. Don't give up.

Well, someone does have to clean up the raisins, and I know you aren't going to do it. That's why you got punished. If I were a teacher, I would've made you pick up every raisin you threw... but then I'm not a teacher. :p


As to the poll, subtract one from the yes column and move it to the no column. I misread the question. :rolleyes:

I'm African American and I don't even let other African Americans call me that. The "N word" is a VERY derogitory term that I do not desire to be called or associated with in any way, shape, or form. Using the word so normally as if it were a good thing, to me, is an insult to the people who came before me and worked so hard and faced so much bullshit in order to NOT be called that. I wish to be the best I can be in my life because I don't want the contributions of my predecessors to be nothing but a meaningless waste.
Um, sorry if I offended you in any way then...

Well, someone does have to clean up the raisins, and I know you aren't going to do it. That's why you got punished. If I were a teacher, I would've made you pick up every raisin you threw... but then I'm not a teacher. :p

Why would I clean it up? It might as well be toxic waste, it's bad enough they're trying to feed it to us.

Um, sorry if I offended you in any way then...

It is no problem, you did not. I do suggest however you look up the original definition of the word and the way it was utilized throughout history and why I feel the way I do about it.

I'm African American and I don't even let other African Americans call me that. The "N word" is a VERY derogitory term that I do not desire to be called or associated with in any way, shape, or form. Using the word so normally as if it were a good thing, to me, is an insult to the people who came before me and worked so hard and faced so much bullshit in order to NOT be called that. I wish to be the best I can be in my life because I don't want the contributions of my predecessors to be nothing but a meaningless waste.
the "N word" is not deogitory. its just that white people who use it are dicks. they are the racists. hate them, not the word.
your predicessors fought for freedom and civil liberties. they didn't fight to make the use of certain words illegal.

In my opinion, either everyone should be able to say it and anyone who is offended can grow some thicker skin...or no one should be able to say it.

Allowing someone to call you n****r and thinking it's fine and then turning around and getting offended if someone else calls you the same thing is the height of hypocrisy.

Personally, I'm with Kejott on this one. I think it's a disgusting term and it pisses me off when ANYone uses it for ANY reason.

It is no problem, you did not. I do suggest however you look up the original definition of the word and the way it was utilized throughout history and why I feel the way I do about it.

But it's a way to take the power of the word away from the people that use it in a derogatory manner. I call all my Italian friends "guinea" as a term of endearment. Turning it into a compliment keeps people from using it as an insult.

In my opinion, either everyone should be able to say it and anyone who is offended can grow some thicker skin...or no one should be able to say it.

Allowing someone to call you n****r and thinking it's fine and then turning around and getting offended if someone else calls you the same thing is the height of hypocrisy.

Personally, I'm with Kejott on this one. I think it's a disgusting term and it pisses me off when ANYone uses it for ANY reason.
again, its not the word they should be offended by. its the people who use them.

In my opinion, either everyone should be able to say it and anyone who is offended can grow some thicker skin...or no one should be able to say it.

Allowing someone to call you n****r and thinking it's fine and then turning around and getting offended if someone else calls you the same thing is the height of hypocrisy.

Personally, I'm with Kejott on this one. I think it's a disgusting term and it pisses me off when ANYone uses it for ANY reason.

Well, this argument makes sense. (What, a liberal agreeing with a conservative? Heresy! :p ) Okay, leave my vote in the yes column then.

again, its not the word they should be offended by. its the people who use them.
I'm offended by anyone who thinks that word, or any other slur, is just fine and dandy.

the "N word" is not deogitory. its just that white people who use it are dicks. they are the racists. hate them, not the word.
your predicessors fought for freedom and civil liberties. they didn't fight to make the use of certain words illegal.

Actually yes it IS a derogitory term. It originally meant a "lazy or useless person with slow ability of comprehension and intelligence", or something similar to that. They then changed the definition to mean "an African American person". I'm not trying to make use of the word illegal, nor do I support that. I just do not wish to be classified with the word or be defined by it because it's not who I am.

Actually yes it IS a derogitory term. It originally meant a "lazy or useless person with slow ability of comprehension and intelligence", or something similar to that. They then changed the definition to mean "an African American person". I'm not trying to make use of the word illegal, nor do I support that. I just do not wish to be classified with the word or be defined by it because it's not who I am.
I always thought it was a slang term for negro...

I was watching a 60 minutes exposee on Dave Chappelle(weiiirrrd combo) and the old guy who was interviewing asked him about using the N word too much. Dave said in the old times it was used as a term of repression, but now when he uses it he says he feels like it's a way to express his freedom. I think that kind of goes with Sdaeriji said.

very sad. i believe anyone should have the right to say anything they want no matter how offensive or repulsive. so long as they dont force their views onto me then i don't give a shit. thats the beauty (or was) of the first ammendment.Listen, people can say whatever they want, but if they say something that offends someone else the other person has a right to take offense.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

But it's a way to take the power of the word away from the people that use it in a derogatory manner. I call all my Italian friends "guinea" as a term of endearment. Turning it into a compliment keeps people from using it as an insult.

That is a possible view, but to me it just makes the people who use it as a compliment or a greeting look and sound foolish and ignorant becuase they aren't using it to take power from the word, they are using it because it's "cool".

Well, this argument makes sense. (What, a liberal agreeing with a conservative? Heresy! :p ) Okay, leave my vote in the yes column then.
LMAO!

We need a :moon: emoticon. :p

I really don't care. If I walked up to a bunch of blacks (I'm white) and said "Yo wadup my *" It would be viewed as racist and stupid, and I agree with that. Race for some reason is a very triggery happy topic. If you and your friends talk to each other in such away and none of you mean it offensivley, just as a casual term and whatnot, it's not offensive. But, if used in the context above (my ex. at the beginning of the paragraph) it would be viewed as offensive.

Listen, people can say whatever they want, but if they say something that offends someone else the other person has a right to take offense.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
On the same note... nobody as the right to not be offended.

But it's a way to take the power of the word away from the people that use it in a derogatory manner. I call all my Italian friends "guinea" as a term of endearment. Turning it into a compliment keeps people from using it as an insult.

So I should keep on calling everyone a ****, then the word will have no power?

Face it "******" is a fucking rude word, which has no place in polite society. If you get overheard using it a school and slapped on the wrist, just look at this as training for the workplace.

(Speaking of which, I know a fair number of engineers that describe anything that is misdesigned/broken as niggered. It really pisses me off and I tell them so. Be polite people!)

I got in a lot of trouble today because a teacher overheard my conversation with a friend. I called her the 'N' word in a greeting and the teacher gave me an unfair punishment. The thing is, we always use the 'N' word because it's cool between us colored people. Should a racial slur still be an offensive word if it's being used by the people it affects in a mutual understanding?

No it shouldn't be offensive if it is being used by the people it is supposed to be offensive to. But at the same time if the people it is supposed to be offensive to start using the slur then it should no longer be considered offensive. If it is alright for colored people to call each other the 'n' word but find it offensive when white people use it, that is just as racist as whites using it in the first place.

If it is alright for colored people to call each other the 'n' word but find it offensive when white people use it, that is just as racist as whites using it in the first place.
Bingo!

But it's a way to take the power of the word away from the people that use it in a derogatory manner. I call all my Italian friends "guinea" as a term of endearment. Turning it into a compliment keeps people from using it as an insult.

I dont think that this is the case at all. Just because you use it as a term of endearment doesn't prevent other (racist) people from using it as a term of abuse



ok, Lacadaemon beat me to it

On the same note... nobody as the right to not be offended.

Shut up. People are too hypersensitive. What people need is to calm down. Hate is a waste of energy, but so is taking offense to every little thing. I have a friend who's ridiculously PC and I can barely be around him without him trying to "educate" me. Give it a rest, bleeding hearts.

On the same note... nobody as the right to not be offended.True...don't you mean "nobody has the right to be offended"?

Just using the word does NOT make you a racist. My school is 96% white and everyone uses the N word and no one gets offended. We all just joke around because the 20 black kids we have are all cool with it. It's really a lot less tense and I think it's funny to see all these white people act nervous to even utter a racial slurr but then go home and turn on Dave Chappelle and laugh their asses off. People are way to politically correct these days.

I think this is just one of those things you have to be in the opposite persons shoes to understand this situation. I am bi-racial but people assume I'm just "another black guy" when they see me in public. I don't have the luxury of someone seeing me as a human being. When I walk down the street people think to themselves "oh look a black guy". When a caucasion person walks down the street people think "oh look a person". I'm just sick of being classified and grouped into a bunch of people I have nothing in common with. I certainly don't want to be grouped into the "N word" list.

I can sorta understand where caucasion people draw their frustration over not being able to use this word along the same lines as African Americans can, but I think in order for me to fully understand I'd have to BE a caucasion person. Just remember there's good people and bad people in every race, and don't judge anyone based on what they look like on the surface. That's how I try to live life.

Chris Rock said it best: There's niggers and then there's black people. Black people are your regular every day people who are just trying to live life. Niggers are the people who do the ignorant shit and shoot at the screens in movie theatres and stab each other at concerts and can't read.

I got in a lot of trouble today because a teacher overheard my conversation with a friend. I called her the 'N' word in a greeting and the teacher gave me an unfair punishment. The thing is, we always use the 'N' word because it's cool between us colored people. Should a racial slur still be an offensive word if it's being used by the people it affects in a mutual understanding?

No, in fact it should depend completely upon context. If any two people wish to use a word, so long as it isn't in an intentionally offensive way, they should be allowed to.

And that is why I will still say nigga to my friend Krissy(or anyone else, for that matter, she's just the one who finds it funniest), no matter how many people whine.

No advance in wealth, no softening of manners, no reform or revolution has ever brought human equality a millimeter nearer.

On behalf of Mr. Orwell, what's the point?

If we (crackers) cant say it, than you cant either. Simple as that.


Yea I agree with that.
I think if you dont want to be called that.... then you shouldnt say it yourself.
If you say it and its "cool", then it should be cool for everybody to say.

Shut up. People are too hypersensitive. What people need is to calm down. Hate is a waste of energy, but so is taking offense to every little thing. I have a friend who's ridiculously PC and I can barely be around him without him trying to "educate" me.

But people also need to learn the different context of different social situations. When you are alone with friends, sure anything goes, becuase you know each other and are sensative to what is funny, and what is offensive. But in the workplace or school, where people/strangers are forced to be around you, common decency requires that you don't use terms that can be overheard and found offensive.

It's not fair on others who don't share you view on appropriate language.

Now granted. PC sometimes goes to far, i.e., the banning of the use of the word picnic at SUNY Purchase. But anyway you slice it ****** is not appropriate.

If you can say it then I should be able to say it. But if I said it I'm sure you'd have something to say back to me.

If the recipient doesn't take offence, then no punishment.
If the recipient takes offence but it isn't obviously meant as an insult, maybe an apology.
If it's obviously meant to cause offence, I'd suggest the whole class have to write an essay on some suitable topic.

very sad. i believe anyone should have the right to say anything they want no matter how offensive or repulsive. so long as they dont force their views onto me then i don't give a shit. thats the beauty (or was) of the first ammendment.

I agree with that 100%.

But I would like to see it where if someone offends me, I can beat the shit out of them for doing it.

Oh....That happens now already, nevermind.

On behalf of Mr. Orwell, what's the point?

You can read that either way. So what's your point?

I agree with that 100%.

But I would like to see it where if someone offends me, I can beat the shit out of them for doing it.

Oh....That happens now already, nevermind.


Yeah, you are a shining example of society... :rolleyes:

If the recipient doesn't take offence, then no punishment.
If the recipient takes offence but it isn't obviously meant as an insult, maybe an apology.
If it's obviously meant to cause offence, I'd suggest the whole class have to write an essay on some suitable topic.

The problem is with this kind of language is that it is not solely as between two people. When in private, anything that people are comfortable is fine. The porblem arises in public situations. I am sure that if I walked down fifth avenue, loudly calling my girlfriend a "dumb ****", many people around me would feel uncomfortable and take offence - and rightly so - , no matter how funny both of us found said epithet.

So when in school, or at work or church &c. I don't think it's acceptable.

very sad. i believe anyone should have the right to say anything they want no matter how offensive or repulsive. so long as they dont force their views onto me then i don't give a shit. thats the beauty (or was) of the first ammendment.

1. This has nothing to do with the First Amendment, thank you.

2. If you think the First Amendment stands (or has ever stood) for "the right to say anything [one] want[s] no matter how offensive or repulsive" without criticism or consequences, you had better think again.

The problem is with this kind of language is that it is not solely as between two people. When in private, anything that people are comfortable is fine. The porblem arises in public situations. I am sure that if I walked down fifth avenue, loudly calling my girlfriend a "dumb ****", many people around me would feel uncomfortable and take offence - and rightly so - , no matter how funny both of us found said epithet.

So when in school, or at work or church &c. I don't think it's acceptable.

I'd say it's perfectly acceptable. It may offend their delicate sensibilities, but it doesn't impair their ability to go about their business. I'm only suggesting the apology and essay to make the children think about it; not to punish them.

2. If you think the First Amendment stands (or has ever stood) for "the right to say anything [one] want[s] no matter how offensive or repulsive" without criticism or consequences, you had better think again.

'Without criticism or consequences' would be a contradiction. Criticize all you want, but don't stop them from saying it.

1. This has nothing to do with the First Amendment, thank you.

2. If you think the First Amendment stands (or has ever stood) for "the right to say anything [one] want[s] no matter how offensive or repulsive" without criticism or consequences, you had better think again.That's the problem. We ought to revise the First Amendment extensively.

Did you know, this was the topic of my first thread?...

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I'd say it's perfectly acceptable. It may offend their delicate sensibilities, but it doesn't impair their ability to go about their business. I'm only suggesting the apology and essay to make the children think about it; not to punish them.


There are a lot of things that don't impair someone's ability to go about their business, that sure as hell doesn't make it right. Maybe you don't understand that places such as school and work and church are not places to spew out ignorant and offensive remarks. Say what you want in your own home, don't think it's your "right" to say whatever you want wherever you want.

I'd say it's perfectly acceptable. It may offend their delicate sensibilities, but it doesn't impair their ability to go about their business. I'm only suggesting the apology and essay to make the children think about it; not to punish them.

Fair enough. As long as you recognize, that:

a) assigning a non credit essay of this type is a form of punishment.

b) teacher's have the right to enforce appropriate standards of behavior in the school setting.

There is a sad lack of respect for others in modern society, and common manners and decency seem to have gone by the wayside.

While I would never say that it should be illegal, the use of words like ****** should never be appropriate in casual public conversation, regardless of who you speak to. And people should be prepared to face the consequences when they do use it.

It's really a lot less tense and I think it's funny to see all these white people act nervous to even utter a racial slurr but then go home and turn on Dave Chappelle and laugh their asses off. People are way to politically correct these days.

I know what you're talking about. I know at least one person who completely lost it because one of my friends said "fag."

Fair enough. As long as you recognize, that:

a) assigning a non credit essay of this type is a form of punishment.

b) teacher's have the right to enforce appropriate standards of behavior in the school setting.

There is a sad lack of respect for others in modern society, and common manners and decency seem to have gone by the wayside.

While I would never say that it should be illegal, the use of words like ****** should never be appropriate in casual public conversation, regardless of who you speak to. And people should be prepared to face the consequences when they do use it.

a) I never said non-credit essay. And it shouldn't be about "credit", it should be about learning.
b) I don't believe the education system here has helped me at all, other than as a way to find friends, and by all accounts it's better than the US system.

Respect isn't given, it's earned. Consideration is given. And after considering that what I say won't really affect anyone unless they're too closed-minded to brush off anything they may percieve as 'offensive', I'll say whatever I damn well please. I'm not suggesting I'll be constantly obnoxious, but that censorship is generally wrong. I believe in unequivocal freedom of speech.

there is nothing wrong with any of these words (and i hope i dont get kicked off for saying them b/c by no means am i racist @ all): ******, boogy, jig, jigaboo, skinhead, mooly, jungle-bunny, greaser, greaseball, dago, guinea, wop, ginzo, kike, zeeb, heeb, yid, mockey, himey, mick, donkey, turkey, limey, frog, zip, zipperhead, sqarehead, krout, jerry, hun, slope, slopehead, chink, gook.

theres nothing wrong with any of these words in and of themselves they are only neutral words. its the context that counts, the user, and the intention behind the words that make them good or bad. its not the words you should worry about, its the racist bastard whos using the words that you should worry about...

nobody cares when richard pryor or eddie murphy uses the word ******, why?, cause we know theyre not racist..theyre niggers... ITS CONTEXT, we dont mind them using it becuase we know that they dont say it in a racist way, nor do they have racist intentions.

so i think ppl should stop talking about "bad words", and all words should be sayable. No one should take offense to a word, they should take offense to the intentions of the word.

*inspired by George Carlin

There are a lot of things that don't impair someone's ability to go about their business, that sure as hell doesn't make it right. Maybe you don't understand that places such as school and work and church are not places to spew out ignorant and offensive remarks. Say what you want in your own home, don't think it's your "right" to say whatever you want wherever you want.

I fail to see how an action with no real ill consequences can be 'wrong'.

True...don't you mean "nobody has the right to be offended"?
No... I meant exactly what I said. It was directed at all the hypersensitive people. People are thin-skinned pussies nowdays. Grow up, get a set of balls and stop taking every little thing so seriously.

No one can offend you. You allow yourself to be offended.

On a side note: apparently, the poster above you (the one that told me to "shut up") thought I was being one of the hypersensitive people. Talk about misreading a post. :rolleyes:

Has everyone forgotten the old children's saying that starts with "Sticks and stones . . .

Has everyone forgotten the old children's saying that starts with "Sticks and stones . . .
There's another one: "If you can't say anything nice........" :)

There's another one: "If you can't say anything nice........" :)

"...then punch a puppy in the face."

This thread reminded me of an incident that happened a few years back. I live in a predominantly black neighborhood, actually, I think we're the only white family within a 3 block radius. I've never had any problems with any of our neighbors, and our kids play together all the time. One day, the neighborhood kids came over and were waiting for my daughter to put her shoes on and come outside. I happened to overhear one of them say to another, "We're just waiting for whitey." They all laughed. So I went outside and said, "Why don't all you little niggers get the hell out of my yard if that's the way you really feel." Needless to say about five minutes later a herd of angry parents were pounding on my door calling me a racist SOB. I told them if they didn't like it, maybe they should teach THEIR kids not to be racist. I informed them exactly what their kids said about mine, and can you guess their reaction? They didn't see anything wrong with it! One actually had the audacity to claim that blacks couldn't be racist towards whites, only the other way around! I basically just laughed and went back inside. Since then, we've had calmer conversations, and they started to see my point. I really wasn't offended by what they said, just curious how they would react to a similar "insult".
Like I hinted at in my earlier post, I feel that words are just words, and they have no more power than what we give them.
Just curious what you might think about this.

What is the "N" word? is that some American thing?

If we (crackers) cant say it, than you cant either. Simple as that.
Why i say thats a capital idea sport!

Respect isn't given, it's earned. Consideration is given. And after considering that what I say won't really affect anyone unless they're too closed-minded to brush off anything they may percieve as 'offensive', I'll say whatever I damn well please. I'm not suggesting I'll be constantly obnoxious, but that censorship is generally wrong. I believe in unequivocal freedom of speech.

Acting respectfully does not mean that you 'respect' the person. It just means that you are aware of acceptable social boundaries.

But, you are right, you have convinced me. Indeed, I say that school children should be allowed to refer to their teachers as 'smelly old cunts' as loudly and as frequently as possible in the schoolyard. After all, if the teacher can't put up with it they are pathetic. They should just learn to brush it off.

Actually there are two way to use this word , one way is considered offensive and one way isn't.

It can either be based on the pronounciation of the word or the tone which you use it in. If you use it in a hateful and cold tone its considered offensive. If you use it in a casual friendly tone, it is considered friendly or normal.

Of course the pronounciation may count as well. If it is pronounced "******" it can be considered hateful, but in a slang-like term "nigga" it's considered casual and friendly.

I believe it's based more on the tone, because the tone is more recognizable.

So I should keep on calling everyone a ****, then the word will have no power?

Face it "******" is a fucking rude word, which has no place in polite society. If you get overheard using it a school and slapped on the wrist, just look at this as training for the workplace.

(Speaking of which, I know a fair number of engineers that describe anything that is misdesigned/broken as niggered. It really pisses me off and I tell them so. Be polite people!)


"****** rigged" is also a term some use. Means something's half-ass fixed.

I've never heard the word used in a positive sense.

"****** rigged" is also a term some use. Means something's half-ass fixed.

I've never heard the word used in a positive sense.
I prefer "Afro-American Ingenuity".

/me runs :p

This thread reminded me of an incident that happened a few years back. I live in a predominantly black neighborhood, actually, I think we're the only white family within a 3 block radius. I've never had any problems with any of our neighbors, and our kids play together all the time. One day, the neighborhood kids came over and were waiting for my daughter to put her shoes on and come outside. I happened to overhear one of them say to another, "We're just waiting for whitey." They all laughed. So I went outside and said, "Why don't all you little niggers get the hell out of my yard if that's the way you really feel." Needless to say about five minutes later a herd of angry parents were pounding on my door calling me a racist SOB. I told them if they didn't like it, maybe they should teach THEIR kids not to be racist. I informed them exactly what their kids said about mine, and can you guess their reaction? They didn't see anything wrong with it! One actually had the audacity to claim that blacks couldn't be racist towards whites, only the other way around! I basically just laughed and went back inside. Since then, we've had calmer conversations, and they started to see my point. I really wasn't offended by what they said, just curious how they would react to a similar "insult".
Like I hinted at in my earlier post, I feel that words are just words, and they have no more power than what we give them.
Just curious what you might think about this.

Yep , I've heard that many times. It's just the way it is here in America.

I prefer "Afro-American Ingenuity".

/me runs :p


lol

I prefer "Afro-American Ingenuity".

/me runs :p

It's not funny. At all.

It's not funny. At all.
Oh bite my ass. I did that to prove a point. And you proved it for me.

Oh bite my ass. I did that to prove a point. And you proved it for me.

Why do you want your ass bitten? Are you gay?

Why do you want your ass bitten? Are you gay?
Would it be a problem if I was gay? :mad:

(For the record: no, I'm not. I just a freaky hetero. ;))

Yeah , you don't have to be gay to want your ass bitten. My x-bf and I use to bite each others asses... but that's a different thread.

I'm white, and I'll make a deal with black people, mexicans, and every other group. You can call each other niggers as much as you want, and you can call me a honkey and a cracker too, and I won't get offended as long as you don't get offended when I call you a ******.

That is the only problem I have with the use of these words. I hear black people call each other the name, and I hear them call white people honkeys and crackers, and they don't expect anyone to be offended, but then they flip out when they get called niggers or any other racial slur.

I don't think the current double standard should be applied, especially in terms of writing it, which I hope I demonstrated while I was writing. It isn't all right to write slurs for white people, then not write or euphemize slurs for other races. That's just a form of reverse discrimination.

Personally, I don't use these terms, unless I'm joking with my cousins (who are black), in which case we've reached an agreement similar to what I am proposing here. However, I do think the double standard that is applied so heavily is wrong.

very sad. i believe anyone should have the right to say anything they want no matter how offensive or repulsive. so long as they dont force their views onto me then i don't give a shit. thats the beauty (or was) of the first ammendment.

The First Amendment was meant to guarantee the right to express any opinion or idea. Its not your free ticked to go around spitting in other people's face.

"My rights end where your nose begins"- Voltaire

I agree, the double standard isn't cool.

Would it be a problem if I was gay? :mad:

(For the record: no, I'm not. I just a freaky hetero. ;))


Shouldn't you grow a thicker skin then - or something.

Plus I like how you have to tell me you are not gay, that must not have offended you at all :rolleyes:

Shouldn't you grow a thicker skin then - or something.

Plus I like how you have to tell me you are not gay, that must not have offended you at all :rolleyes:
No.. I just found it amusing that you would resort to asking if I was "gay"...in that it completely makes NO difference if I am or I am not.

No.. I just found it amusing that you would resort to asking if I was "gay"...in that it completely makes NO difference if I am or I am not.

So you are gay then.


I am glad we cleared that up. Fagort.

So you are gay then.


I am glad we cleared that up. Fagort.
/me falls over laughing :p

Deep down were all gay. :rolleyes:

/me falls over laughing :p

Well are you gay or not?

Oh bite my ass. I did that to prove a point. And you proved it for me.

The point being your ability to act like an ass?

This thread reminded me of an incident that happened a few years back. I live in a predominantly black neighborhood, actually, I think we're the only white family within a 3 block radius. I've never had any problems with any of our neighbors, and our kids play together all the time. One day, the neighborhood kids came over and were waiting for my daughter to put her shoes on and come outside. I happened to overhear one of them say to another, "We're just waiting for whitey." They all laughed. So I went outside and said, "Why don't all you little niggers get the hell out of my yard if that's the way you really feel." Needless to say about five minutes later a herd of angry parents were pounding on my door calling me a racist SOB. I told them if they didn't like it, maybe they should teach THEIR kids not to be racist. I informed them exactly what their kids said about mine, and can you guess their reaction? They didn't see anything wrong with it! One actually had the audacity to claim that blacks couldn't be racist towards whites, only the other way around! I basically just laughed and went back inside. Since then, we've had calmer conversations, and they started to see my point. I really wasn't offended by what they said, just curious how they would react to a similar "insult".
Like I hinted at in my earlier post, I feel that words are just words, and they have no more power than what we give them.
Just curious what you might think about this.

You weren't offended, but decided to deliberately offend others to teach them a pointless "lesson." How droll. :rolleyes:

Tell you what -- I'll offer you and all the others whining about a "double-standard" a deal: Almost all the whites in this country can be slaves to African-Americans for about 250 years. Then they can be segregated for about 100 years. About 40-50 years after that -- you can call African-Americans whatever word you like. Sound fair?

You weren't offended, but decided to deliberately offend others to teach them a pointless "lesson." How droll. :rolleyes:

Tell you what I'll offer you and all the others whining about a "double-standard" a deal: Almost all the whites in this country can be slaves to African-Americans for about 250 years. Then they can be segregated for about 100 years. About 40-50 years after that -- you can call African-Americans whatever word you like. Sound fair?

Oh boy here comes some major bitching coming your way. Better duck!

Most caucasion people will consider me to be racist for agreeing, however I do anyways.

Oh boy here comes some major bitching coming your way. Better duck!

Most caucasion people will consider me to be racist for agreeing, however I do anyways.

Oh, they'll bitch.

The privileged white male loves to bitch about the loss of inequality. It is so unfair: who can we know we are superior to?

Oh, they'll bitch.

The privileged white male loves to bitch about the loss of inequality. It is so unfair: who can we know we are superior to?

I would consider myself to be somewhat privileged. I grew up in the highly urbanized and dangerous projects of Detroit, Michigan. My mother being the smart woman that she is named me a pretty "caucasion" sounding name. Bradford. My first name has awarded the ability to go a bit further than someone named Levon. Now if I were named Tyrone for instance, I doubt I would survive the application process and I would surely obtain fewer job oppertunities that I've had in the past. People act like racism no longer exists in the US, and I encounter it every fucking day. You just don't know another persons place until you experience it first hand.

Oh, they'll bitch.

The privileged white male loves to bitch about the loss of inequality. It is so unfair: who can we know we are superior to?
hey, hey. some of my best friends are black.

heh. seriously. my ex was a wonderful mocha brown. i used to call her my "dark meat." hmm. am i racist? :confused:

I guess this really is a difficult question to answer...

It I feel that it really does depend on the context that it is used. In some movies you often hear people of African origin greet eachother by saying 'What's up Ni*er?', and in other movies, or even sitcoms gay characters greet eachother with terms such as 'hi queerboy', or 'hey fag'.

Do we as a society at large clamp down on these as being rascist or homophobic, or do we hold the belief that it is acceptable to refer to others in such a way so long as we know that person is comfortable with that?

It really is a case of minding your manners until you achieve some harmony. Is the colour of a persons skin, their sexual preference, hair colour, etc. really that important in todays society? Time will tell...

I got in a lot of trouble today because a teacher overheard my conversation with a friend. I called her the 'N' word in a greeting and the teacher gave me an unfair punishment. The thing is, we always use the 'N' word because it's cool between us colored people. Should a racial slur still be an offensive word if it's being used by the people it affects in a mutual understanding?Given that we are all different skin colours/shades. Then yes, I would say your teacher was right to challenge your use of potentially offensive terms. What you may think is okay, someone else may be offended by. The best approach is to show respect for others and not just assume they think like you.

I guess this really is a difficult question to answer...

It I feel that it really does depend on the context that it is used. In some movies you often hear people of African origin greet eachother by saying 'What's up Ni*er?', and in other movies, or even sitcoms gay characters greet eachother with terms such as 'hi queerboy', or 'hey fag'.

Do we as a society at large clamp down on these as being rascist or homophobic, or do we hold the belief that it is acceptable to refer to others in such a way so long as we know that person is comfortable with that?

It really is a case of minding your manners until you achieve some harmony. Is the colour of a persons skin, their sexual preference, hair colour, etc. really that important in todays society? Time will tell...

Yeah, I'm a homo and refer to my gay friends as fags etc But only after I've known them for awhile. I mean i wouldn't run around a Pride parade screaming "poofter". It's all about the C word...context!

I wanted to be the last to post here :D ... unless someone else decides to add.

I think the teacher had a point. Even if you and your friend don't find it offensive or derogatory, there could well have been others (including the teacher) within earshot of you who did. By ignoring it, the teacher is sending a message to those people that s/he is implicitly endorsing such comments.

Especially at your age, people can be extremely sensitive to any slight or comment, even if it isn't directed at them or is in jest. Teenagers, generally, have poorly developed skills at reading and understanding facetiousness or sarcasm. They tend to think of everything in terms of absolutes. The first reaction to overhearing a derogatory comment could well be feeling extremely insulted and upset, immediately wanting to make an official complaint.

From the perspective of the teacher, there's also the need (especially in this obsessively politically-correct world schools are now in) to protect their career and job. If s/he had done nothing and another student then did complain, it could easily be blown out of proportion and the teacher finds themselves out of a job for 'endorsing racism'. Schools are so paranoid about such things it could easily happen over such a minor thing.




I remember years ago watching a British drama about a teacher at a run-down inner-city school. It was a brilliant series, written by the same bloke who did 'Cracker' (best all-time police drama ever). In one episode the teacher overhears a black student hassling a gay student, calling him a 'fag','homo','queer' etc etc, and the teacher responds by confronting the black student and asking him how he'd feel being called a '******'. The teacher doesn't actually call the student a ******, he just asks him how he'd feel being called one, and then tells him that feeling of shame and hurt is exactly how the gay student is feeling right now over his comments. A pretty reasonable way, especially to a teenager, of making the student immediately aware of how hurtful comments can be, even in jest.
Upshot of the episode was that the teacher was suspended, almost loses his job and had to publicly apologise to the black student.
I thought at the time how ridiculous and far-fetched that was. Until I started teaching in a public school and saw just how paranoid and overly-sensitive schools can be.


Oh, and sorry Perezuela, for spoiling your night by posting!

You weren't offended, but decided to deliberately offend others to teach them a pointless "lesson." How droll. :rolleyes:

Tell you what -- I'll offer you and all the others whining about a "double-standard" a deal: Almost all the whites in this country can be slaves to African-Americans for about 250 years. Then they can be segregated for about 100 years. About 40-50 years after that -- you can call African-Americans whatever word you like. Sound fair?

History Lesson - I wasn't alive back then. But of course I should be punished because Im the white devil! That's why Muslims don't deserve respect either because of al-Qaida. That's why anyone who's Italian should be disrespected because of Mussolini. That's why Germans are all Nazis. Base everything on the past, even if you didn't live back then, and the world will turn.

You weren't offended, but decided to deliberately offend others to teach them a pointless "lesson." How droll. :rolleyes:

Tell you what -- I'll offer you and all the others whining about a "double-standard" a deal: Almost all the whites in this country can be slaves to African-Americans for about 250 years. Then they can be segregated for about 100 years. About 40-50 years after that -- you can call African-Americans whatever word you like. Sound fair?
What a great idea!
Following along those lines:
I think you'll agree that Germany was morally right to feel extremely agrieved and angry over the unfair usury that the Jews have done over several centuries in their country and that they were quite within their right to take steps to ensure those dispicable Jews could not practise their moneygrubbing ways anymore.
I also assume you'll agree that Al-quaeda is just to declare jihad on the West, due to the Crusades 800 years ago. Following your logic, as part of the Western World, you are personally responsible for the atrocities committed by the crusaders all those centuries ago when they invaded Muslim land and thus should be begging the Muslim fanatics invade and subjucate your own country for a few hundred years as recompense.
And of course, the Real IRA is morally right in wanting all Protestants kicked out of N.Ireland and/or killed due to the oppression of the Irish over the last 600 years. No doubt you've already written to Tony Blair demanding that the Irish have a turn at ruling England for a few centuries. After that the English can happily call them Micks and Paddys.

If we (crackers) cant say it, than you cant either. Simple as that.

You (crackers) can't say it because ya'll abused the privilege.

You (crackers) can't say it because ya'll abused the privilege.

So even if I wasn't born back then, my family didn't say it, it's still my fault? Who's the racist now?

I think the IRA is right, I just disagree with their method of doing things. I think they were a necessary force for a long time, but now that most of the outright abuse has stopped, they need to change directions. After all, the Catholics will outnumber the Prods in N. Ireland in a decade or two, and then Ireland will be united, and that'll be the end of it.

No, Cat-tribes, of course your deal isn't fair. You are suggesting more racism. What I was saying when I complained about the double standard was that you can't yell racism if you yourself practice it. That's hypocracy.

I think the IRA is right, I just disagree with their method of doing things. I think they were a necessary force for a long time, but now that most of the outright abuse has stopped, they need to change directions. After all, the Catholics will outnumber the Prods in N. Ireland in a decade or two, and then Ireland will be united, and that'll be the end of it.

No, Cat-tribes, of course your deal isn't fair. You are suggesting more racism. What I was saying when I complained about the double standard was that you can't yell racism if you yourself practice it. That's hypocracy.

I think Al'Qaeda is right, but I disagree with their methods of doing things. They're just not precise enough.

So even if I wasn't born back then, my family didn't say it, it's still my fault? Who's the racist now?

Sometimes we have to pay for the sins of our fathers. One of the best ways to overcome the sins of our fathers is to not repeat them. Telling a people that they can't openly use a word that was used to make them less than human in recent history (very recent) *is* repeating the sin of your fathers.

This isn't some thing like "Skippy" where it's an ethnic slur on some far away island in a long ago galaxy. "******" is universally known to be a racial epithet and that black people can claim it as their own and use it without fear is a sign of healing.

Trying to stop that healing is more racist than you could ever imagine.

History Lesson - I wasn't alive back then. But of course I should be punished because Im the white devil! That's why Muslims don't deserve respect either because of al-Qaida. That's why anyone who's Italian should be disrespected because of Mussolini. That's why Germans are all Nazis. Base everything on the past, even if you didn't live back then, and the world will turn.

Cute. Completely asinine and fails to make any sense in places, but a nice try at reductio ad absurdum.

History lesson: There is a history to the word. There is a history to the treatment of African-Americans in this country. Many whites and many African-Americans currently alive were alive during segregation. The rest are one (at the very, very most two) generations away.

African-Americans have every reason to be offended by words that echo a recent history of segregation and a not-so-distant history of slavery. They have been oppressed by those who dehumanized them with such words.

Although we are making great progress, African-Americans have not yet reached relative equality or even equal opportunity. It is extremely well-documented that that African-Americans face discrimination almost daily.

Whites have not been systematically oppressed or treated as chattal under the labels of "whitey" or "honkey." True, they may face racism. It is sporadic and almost always powerless.

The situations are not comparable. There is no "double-standard." There is treating like alike and unlike differently.

What a great idea!
Following along those lines:
I think you'll agree that Germany was morally right to feel extremely agrieved and angry over the unfair usury that the Jews have done over several centuries in their country and that they were quite within their right to take steps to ensure those dispicable Jews could not practise their moneygrubbing ways anymore.
I also assume you'll agree that Al-quaeda is just to declare jihad on the West, due to the Crusades 800 years ago. Following your logic, as part of the Western World, you are personally responsible for the atrocities committed by the crusaders all those centuries ago when they invaded Muslim land and thus should be begging the Muslim fanatics invade and subjucate your own country for a few hundred years as recompense.
And of course, the Real IRA is morally right in wanting all Protestants kicked out of N.Ireland and/or killed due to the oppression of the Irish over the last 600 years. No doubt you've already written to Tony Blair demanding that the Irish have a turn at ruling England for a few centuries. After that the English can happily call them Micks and Paddys.

Pathetic. That was not my logic.

Nor are you being rational. See my post above.

So even if I wasn't born back then, my family didn't say it, it's still my fault? Who's the racist now?

Apparently you.

By when do you mean "back then."

Who is punishing you for past crimes?

All I was saying was that you cannot equate words that have different histories. Nor can you act like you have the same basis for offense when you hear the word "whitey" as an African-American has when he or she hears the n-word.

You didn't start on a clean slate. History happened. Things still happen. You can't expect to be treated special.

I really am all for multiculturalism and embracing one's culture, but this only works if you actually treat everyone equally. You can't have a word that can only be spoken by members of your race. That's like a password to some secret fraternal organization. If you want there to be healing and reconciliation, strive for it. I'm not saying that the African-American race cannot have a racial identity, all races have racial identities, but if you want to encourage peace, don't abstruct it with exclusiveness.

Take it this way. I'm a Jew. There are pleanty of derogatory terms for Jews, but it's incredibly socially unacceptable to use them to one another. Even the stiginess steriotype is sort of frowned upon, but that is still used by the rest of the world. Those who hate multiculturalism say that it divided people, but this is only true when access to a culture is limited.

The point is, if you want racial barriers, build them. If you don't, destroy them.

That's why Muslims don't deserve respect either because of al-Qaida.

You'd be surprised - or maybe not - at just how many people believe that to be true. As an American Muslim all I can say is, "Try it in my shoes for a couple of days."

Knowing what it's like that people hate you, really genuinely *hate* you, and wish with every breath that you would fall over and die for no other reason than the way you pray is not something average White Christian America will ever know.

Don't believe me? Grow a beard, put on a caftan or turban, and go grocery shopping. You will see people physically snatching their children away from you if you get within 20 feet of them. You'll find you suddenly have security guards around every aisle, watching you without subtlety.

Now go shave, put on western style clothing, and go to the same grocery store.

Now ... imagine it's because of your skin color. Something you can't remove.

I think the IRA is right, I just disagree with their method of doing things. I think they were a necessary force for a long time, but now that most of the outright abuse has stopped, they need to change directions. After all, the Catholics will outnumber the Prods in N. Ireland in a decade or two, and then Ireland will be united, and that'll be the end of it.

No, Cat-tribes, of course your deal isn't fair. You are suggesting more racism. What I was saying when I complained about the double standard was that you can't yell racism if you yourself practice it. That's hypocracy.

How quaint. You live in a society built on racism. That is still pervasively racist.

But that infintesimal bit of rare racism -- powerless name-calling -- that may be aimed at you cancels out the everyday racism of power and privilege. Racism is wrong. But it should be rather evident that all racism is not equal. Some of it is merely offensive, some of it is genocide.

Grow up.

My point was obviously not that whites should spend 350 years in slavery and segregation. My point was that there is a history here. And it leads right up to the present. Closing your eyes and covering your ears to all by shallow slights against yourself doesn't make you colorblind -- it makes you ignorant.

Oh, please. If you had used the "N"-word to insult or put down - maybe someone like your teacher should have stepped in and asked why you did that or maybe suggest to simply watch your language. Since it apparently refers to the color of skin of both conversational partners so who the hell cares?

If I greet my best buddy and friend with "Hey asshole, whazzup?", nobody but him can voice and objection towards that greeting but him. Other than that, racial slurs are not necessary but people who use the words beyond their original meaning are always more welcome than those who take everything literally. ;)

Take it easy (and say "Hi!" to your friend - maybe this time w/out a teacher ;)=

very sad. i believe anyone should have the right to say anything they want no matter how offensive or repulsive. so long as they dont force their views onto me then i don't give a shit. thats the beauty (or was) of the first ammendment.
First amendment never protected all speech, and was never meant to.

jesus christ..... just say it


******

Don't be a menace

Ashtray: Yo whats up my nigga?
Preach: Stop using the word ******! Its words like ****** that the white man uses to take away the dignity of another racer.
Ashtray : Ah...
Preach :You coming down the chinky store with me? I need to get some chips

I'm sorry, I live in a culture built on racism? How the hell do you know that? I don't have a location that was added without my knowledge, do I? You don't even know where I live. What if I was an Inuit? What if I was the first member of my 15-person Inuit tribe who ever saw a computer, and now I use it to respond to assholes who make stupid assumptions about other people?

Unless perhaps you are suggesting that all cultures are built on racism, which is about as absurd as pretending you somehow "know" instinctively what culture I am from.

"Some of it is genocide." Really? What bit would that be? I don't remember killing any black people recently, but maybe I did it and didn't even realize what I did. Of course, throwing around words like genocide may just be a good way for you to cover up the fact that your reply was asinine and stumbled aimlessly around the debate like a drunk after an open bar night.

Or perhaps you are suggesting that calling black people niggers is genocide. How that would be, I don't know, after all, it's just some harmless name calling, isn't it?

Yes, black people were mistreated in the past. Yes, this was morally reprehensible. No one is debating that. That is not the subject of this debate. Many people have been oppressed in the past. WHite, black, yellow, red, whatever. That doesn't mean that we should apply double standards to all the slurs used against those people too. Color-blind means not racist either way. "Balancing" the past isn't justice, it's just more poisonous racism.

jesus christ..... just say it


******
You want Jesus Christ to say '******'?
What would the Christians make of that?

I'm sorry, I live in a culture built on racism? How the hell do you know that? I don't have a location that was added without my knowledge, do I? You don't even know where I live. What if I was an Inuit? What if I was the first member of my 15-person Inuit tribe who ever saw a computer, and now I use it to respond to assholes who make stupid assumptions about other people?

Unless perhaps you are suggesting that all cultures are built on racism, which is about as absurd as pretending you somehow "know" instinctively what culture I am from.

You've declared yourself an American in at least 2 separate threads, brainiac.

So, either you are a liar or -- like me -- you live in a society that was built on racism.

Feel free to choose whether you lied before or just now made yourself look silly.

"Some of it is genocide." Really? What bit would that be? I don't remember killing any black people recently, but maybe I did it and didn't even realize what I did. Of course, throwing around words like genocide may just be a good way for you to cover up the fact that your reply was asinine and stumbled aimlessly around the debate like a drunk after an open bar night.

Did I accuse of genocide? No.

Did I say racism at the extreme leads to genocide? Yes. Care to differ?

Are you going to come down off that cross or should I pass up the hammer?

Or perhaps you are suggesting that calling black people niggers is genocide. How that would be, I don't know, after all, it's just some harmless name calling, isn't it?

Or perhaps I suggested no such thing and you decided to attack a strawman?

Here is what I said:

Racism is wrong. But it should be rather evident that all racism is not equal. Some of it is merely offensive, some of it is genocide.

Do you actually disagree with those three sentences?

Or would responding interfere with your hissy fit?



Yes, black people were mistreated in the past. Yes, this was morally reprehensible. No one is debating that. That is not the subject of this debate. Many people have been oppressed in the past. WHite, black, yellow, red, whatever. That doesn't mean that we should apply double standards to all the slurs used against those people too. Color-blind means not racist either way. "Balancing" the past isn't justice, it's just more poisonous racism.

Um. Black people are still discriminated against. More so than whites.

Whites have disproportionate privilege and power.

For both historical reasons and culture context, a white person calling an African-American "******" is a much greater slur -- a greater wrong -- than an African-American calling a white person "whitey." Deal with it.

Color blindness should not be blindness to reality, reason, or morals.

A wise person once said (excuse my memory) "I may disagree with what you say with every fiber of my being, but I will die for your right to say it." Whether or not America explicitly protects free speech, it is implicitly protected by the ideology that Americans have. We hold it to be important that censorship is generally not acceptable. Free speech reigns.

That said, there is also something called discretion and sensitivity. The word "fuck" has wormed its way into the casual dialogue of many people, as a nour, verb, adjective, and more. Most of us do it sometimes, me included. And my friends either don't care, or find it humorous. But I would never do it in front of my grandma. Why? Not because I think its "wrong" or "offensive" per se, but because I respect her enough not to do something that would cause her distress and unhappiness. If only we could have this respect for all people!

Main point here: We all have the "right" and ability to use the n-word. But its our choice *not* to use it that would seem to portray a respect to black people everywhere. I will never use the f-word in front of my grandma, or anyone else's for that matter, until it also worms its way into the vocab of the elderly. By the same token, when black people en masse are no longer offended by the n-word, perhaps then we can consider the word as just that, a word.

"us colored kids" wow...okay. Are you even black?

I think this is just one of those things you have to be in the opposite persons shoes to understand this situation. I am bi-racial but people assume I'm just "another black guy" when they see me in public. I don't have the luxury of someone seeing me as a human being. When I walk down the street people think to themselves "oh look a black guy". When a caucasion person walks down the street people think "oh look a person". I'm just sick of being classified and grouped into a bunch of people I have nothing in common with. I certainly don't want to be grouped into the "N word" list.

I can sorta understand where caucasion people draw their frustration over not being able to use this word along the same lines as African Americans can, but I think in order for me to fully understand I'd have to BE a caucasion person.

I have to agree with you that in order to fully understand you would have to BE that other race. I'm a white guy who grew up in a neighborhood where the majority of people were African-American and Latino, and the dominant culture among my peers was the ghetto subculture. So I know what it's like to be a minority. I was often called "white boy" and "gringo," and I was rarely actually called by my name. I was pointed out as "that white boy over there". I understand why. It's easy to identify someone when they have an obvious characteristic that most people in the community don't have. White people were considered inherently less able to be cool, and when you're a teenager and trying desperately to be cool and fit in, it hurts a lot to be left out because of your skin color. It hurts to be considered inherently weak and derided because everyone knows that white boys are weak compared to black kids.

However, none of this enables me to fully understand what it's like to be black. On an intellectual level, I can grasp the psychological effects of rarely seeing people of your own race represented in the media and in politics. I can grasp the effects of a larger cultural stereotype that paint you and all others that look like you as dangerous and ignorant. I can draw parallels from my own experiences to help me grasp these things. But I can never fully understand it because I didn't live it, didn't experience the depth of it or the uniqueness of the cultural context surrounding it.

You want Jesus Christ to say '******'?
What would the Christians make of that?

I would build a time machine using the immense anachronism. Who knows what the other Christians would do.

Whites have not been systematically oppressed or treated as chattal under the labels of "whitey" or "honkey." True, they may face racism. It is sporadic and almost always powerless.


Would "white piece of shit" be more comparable? maybe we can just come up with a new racial slur? would that appease you as non-offensive... it doesn't even have a history so it makes it alright to say!

You want Jesus Christ to say '******'?
What would the Christians make of that?
Probably something about with fishes

If we (crackers) cant say it, than you cant either. Simple as that.

This is my sentiment as well. But I do have to say though that the punishment for this is rather absurd.

Racist words r okay to be used, as long as they r not used by an ethnic group outside of the group, the words are used to offend.
e.g blak people can call each other niggas, pakistanis can call each other pakis but if a person outside of the racial group uses this terminology it can be confusin, as to whether it is meant to be a racist slur and tryin to be disrepectful to the persons race, or just a term of endearment, etc.

Racist words r okay to be used, as long as they r not used by an ethnic group outside of the group, the words are used to offend.
e.g blak people can call each other niggas, pakistanis can call each other pakis but if a person outside of the racial group uses this terminology it can be confusin, as to whether it is meant to be a racist slur and tryin to be disrepectful to the persons race, or just a term of endearment, etc.

Can I call a white person a ******, just like a black person can call his black friend "whitey" or "whitest black person I've ever met"?

No, a white person can call his whitefrend whitey, and a blak person can call his blak frend blacky, anywayz this is a stupid debate, its not my problem if u want to b a racist, u bloody nazi

Chris Rock said it best: There's niggers and then there's black people. Black people are your regular every day people who are just trying to live life. Niggers are the people who do the ignorant shit and shoot at the screens in movie theatres and stab each other at concerts and can't read.

That was a great bit, but if he had been White, Hispanic or Asian, the PC folks would have had his ass for speaking the truth.

No, a white person can call his whitefrend whitey, and a blak person can call his blak frend blacky, anywayz this is a stupid debate, its not my problem if u want to b a racist, u bloody nazi

How is that racist or even REMOTELY close to Nazism, pray tell?

Fuk u, u fukin NAZI, go and suk off Hitler!

Fuk u, u fukin NAZI, go and suk off Hitler!

That doesn't answer my question. I have non-white friends, so I guess I can't be a Nazi. And it's spelled fuck.

I was in a show in college called "That Championship Season," the show if your familiar with it shows how a person like a high school coach can corrupt people with ideas. My character had to say racial slur after racial slur because he would rather crawl into a bottle then remember the pain that his coaches racist ways had caused by turning their championship season into a lie by cheating. Injuring the black center on the other team to win the game. Had we edited the "N" word out of the show I don't feel it would have brought home how badly this coach had warped these peoples sense of right & wrong.
Now the funny thing about the show was the guy who did sound for us was a very large black man who could have stomped the living hell out of me if he wanted to. He would regularly joke with the rest of the crew how he was gonna take me outside after the show & beat the white out of me.

And it's spelled fuck.
New Genoa ur a fukin Nazi, and i don't care if people can't spell, its better if people cant spell as long as they're nice people. I wouldn't forgive Saddam if he sed I mite hav gassed the Kurds but I can spell FUCK.

I got in a lot of trouble today because a teacher overheard my conversation with a friend. I called her the 'N' word in a greeting and the teacher gave me an unfair punishment. The thing is, we always use the 'N' word because it's cool between us colored people. Should a racial slur still be an offensive word if it's being used by the people it affects in a mutual understanding?
As a teacher, who also happens to be a 'person of colour', I deal with it in this way: If it isn't polite, or proper English (or Spanish, as it happens) it doesn't belong in the classroom. I don't care how you MEANT it...calling someone a 'faggot, ******, spic, kike, nazi' etc etc is not part of an intelligent dialogue no matter what your intentions are. Keep slang, and slurs, on the street where they belong. While IN school, to the best of your ability, speak like someone who has an education. That's right...I go home and swear like a pirate too...and I crack offensive jokes from time to time...but once I step foot onto school property, a nun couldn't fault my language.

In reference to whomever mentioned the "original meaning" of the N-word, and said that it orignally meant something else and then was turned into a reference to african-americans:

The word you are referring to is "niggardly", spelt with an a. I believe it means "mean", as in Scrooge-y, tight. As far as I am aware it has nothing to do with the word "Negro"...which was the source for the offensive word used today. Say "negro" with an accent enough times and it will come out as the N-word. That is the source of "the N-word".

On a side-note about "niggardly"...I recall hearing a story about a man who used the word in it's proper context, and was fired for making a racist slur. That must've sucked - not being racist at all, and being fired for using an uncommon synonym for mean.

And as for my opinion on the matter: I don't believe that the n-word should be used by anyone, as if it is used at all (even in a non-racist way) then it is open to further use in a racist sense. The only way to prevent the use of racial slurs in a derogatory way is to make a pointed effort not to use them at ALL. ;)

That doesn't answer my question.
YEH, u fukin ran away u pussy, cuz u know that ur a fukin nazi. Yeh u'll b racist to people, until sum1 speaks out, then u run off with ur tail between ur legs cuz u kno ur in the wrong, so jus shut ur mouth and leave people alone u anti-semitic bastard.

New Genoa ur a fukin Nazi, and i don't care if people can't spell, its better if people cant spell as long as they're nice people.Fuk u, u fukin NAZI, go and suk off Hitler!YEH, u fukin ran away u pussy, cuz u know that ur a fukin nazi. Yeh u'll b racist to people, until sum1 speaks out, then u run off with ur tail between ur legs cuz u kno ur in the wrong, so jus shut ur mouth and leave people alone u anti-semitic bastard.
All right, that's enough. It ends NOW.

Both of you (and yes, I know you're the same person) get Official Warnings for flaming. Keep it up if you want both these and all your other nations deleted.

Are we QUITE clear?

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator
Forum and Game Rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023)

Would "white piece of shit" be more comparable? maybe we can just come up with a new racial slur? would that appease you as non-offensive... it doesn't even have a history so it makes it alright to say!

You are not getting it.

It is not okay to say a racial slur against whites. Of any kind.

Just as it is not okay to say a racial slur against anyone of any race.

But just as there are degrees of theft and homicide, there are degrees of racism. And there are different degrees of offensive.

Some of the crap hurled at you between your post I'm quoting and this post was, for example, way out of hand and much more offensive than if you called me "whitey" or even "white piece of shit." Right?

Obviously the joking use of slurs between friends or between members of the same community is less offensive than its intentionally derogatory use. Not necessarily a good thing. Not necessarily appropriate in school, church, or a courthouse. But not as offensive as in other settings with other intentions.

Claiming that we must treat all racial comments or actions as equally offensive or hurtful is so obviously wrong that it brings into question whether the motivation is really a desire for equality and "colorblindness" or rather just a little payback or grandstanding.

I got in a lot of trouble today because a teacher overheard my conversation with a friend. I called her the 'N' word in a greeting and the teacher gave me an unfair punishment. The thing is, we always use the 'N' word because it's cool between us colored people. Should a racial slur still be an offensive word if it's being used by the people it affects in a mutual understanding?

if you both are niggers or what ever you ppl want to call your race then it is not offensive, but if a white dude calls a black dude ****** it is evil, but would it be evil if you valled me aryen?

All racial and ethnic and sexual slurs are wrong. Some may be more wrong than others, but they are all wrong. They should not be used in a public place even amoung friends. Alone with friends no one can stop you, but in public it is different.

For those who brought up past wrongs done to you, I can somewhat understand your resentment. My ancestors were driven out of the united states and killed. No I'm not Native American. I'm mormon. A white, religious mormon. Yet my past is scarred with predjudice, persecution, murder, slander, and other wrongs. My people were tarred and feathered, beaten, killed, raped, and otherwise humiliated. 150 years of being ostracized. We had our lands stolen burned, and were driven from town to town, til my ancestors had to leave the country and settle in Mexico (present day Utah).

Yet, I recieve only mild slander today. I am not bitter. Bitterness solves nothing. This is one reason why I like to spend time with true Africans, because they were not around when slavery was here, they come with a fresh slate and very little bitterness. All of us here have been born into a great era of increasing social equality and we were all born with blank slates, we are the ones to choose what to fill our slates with.

I do not suggest that my history equals your history. But that no matter what the history, change lies in the present. That is why I think no one should use any slurs. Racism exists in all comunities. There are blacks that are equally racist as whites, whites as equally racist as latin americans. We can go around pointing the finger til it falls off. It will solve nothing until WE choose to end it. Racism isn't the only hate that goes on. We need to end all forms of hate.

Social equality is growing, yes it is not there yet, I know. But we all have to work together.

I group up and went to a school where I was the minority, most of my friends were black. I didn't notice, I didn't care. They were people. It wasn't til I graduated from High School that I even noticed that racism still existed in peoples hearts, and it made me very sad. We should all have the decency to treat everybody the same. That means if something offends a group of people, we avoid it. Not for their sake, but for society as a whole.

I don't know if I made any sense, but that is my take on all of this.

the N word is ugly and we dont say it at my house. I think its very insulting and rude.

of course we dont go around callling each other honkys or crackers or spics either.

the N word is ugly and we dont say it at my house. I think its very insulting and rude.

of course we dont go around callling each other honkys or crackers or spics either.


I'm only half offended by hispanic racial slurs :rolleyes:

I'm only half offended by hispanic racial slurs :rolleyes:


lol.......you know i will smite anyone who calls you a slur

lol.......you know i will smite anyone who calls you a slur
*is tempted*

*is tempted*


You'd only be half smoted

Oh, please. If you had used the "N"-word to insult or put down - maybe someone like your teacher should have stepped in and asked why you did that or maybe suggest to simply watch your language. Since it apparently refers to the color of skin of both conversational partners so who the hell cares?

If I greet my best buddy and friend with "Hey asshole, whazzup?", nobody but him can voice and objection towards that greeting but him. Other than that, racial slurs are not necessary but people who use the words beyond their original meaning are always more welcome than those who take everything literally. ;)

Take it easy (and say "Hi!" to your friend - maybe this time w/out a teacher ;)=

Um, I think if you called your friend an asshole and a teacher heard it in the school I attended you would have been punished. A school or workplace has the job of being non-hostile where possible. In order to do that, there have to be standards of behavior. Some gentlemen at my job were chastised recently for using foul language in public (jokingly) while one of them was wearing a shirt with the company logo. If you think these requirements on behavior end when teachers no longer have a hold on you, you're wholly wrong.

You'd only be half smoted
Hey! That's not nice to say to a cripple :mad:



:p

Irico - you dirty slur you!

:D

Irico - you dirty slur you!

:D


Let the smotes begin

I got in a lot of trouble today because a teacher overheard my conversation with a friend. I called her the 'N' word in a greeting and the teacher gave me an unfair punishment. The thing is, we always use the 'N' word because it's cool between us colored people. Should a racial slur still be an offensive word if it's being used by the people it affects in a mutual understanding?
I never thought calling someone a nincompoop would cause that much hostility.

Seriously, though, why should anyone respond any more favorably to being called a ni**er than if they were called "stupid", "ugly", or, assuming it is a term of praise, "good-looking"?

Seems to me that folks that want to call each other ni**er are trying to bait others around them. So ends the observation of a white man that has never called anyone a ni**er in his life. I don't even know how to pronounce **.

Hey! That's not nice to say to a cripple :mad:



:p


lol...i'd only be half offended....you can have the full on smoting if you'd like though

lol...i'd only be half offended....you can have the full on smoting if you'd like though
Still not funny


:p

Tell you what -- I'll offer you and all the others whining about a "double-standard" a deal: Almost all the whites in this country can be slaves to African-Americans for about 250 years. Then they can be segregated for about 100 years. About 40-50 years after that -- you can call African-Americans whatever word you like. Sound fair?
Approximately 1 million to 1.5 million white europeans were kidnapped and sold into slavery in North Africa in the 15th-17th centuries. So, they did it to us, then we did it to them, and now you are suggesting it's their turn again.
When the white settlers in America pushed west they found thousands of slaves being kept by Native American tribes. Should we enslave Native American's?
Maybe we should talk about the Irish and Italians being segregated in America?
Slavery is still a problem in Africa today. (See here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4515857.stm) ) Would you suggest that we enslave black people to teach them about what it's like to be a slave?

All right, that's enough. It ends NOW.

Both of you get Official Warnings for flaming. Keep it up if you want both these and all your other nations deleted.



~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator
Forum and Game Rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023)

Sorry, I must apologise for my language and my temper. Even though I think that Nazis are scum of the universe, I guess I should have remained quiet and let people be racist if they want to.

Racial slurs are used to be-little the targeted race. By using racial slurs, even amoungest fellows of the targeted race, you incourage others to precive you as deserving of the slur and/or it's meaning. If you don't resect yourself enough not use the slur, the you have little ground to complain on. Slurs in general are an ignorant person's attempt to feel superior. We should all rise above such petty ignorance, for in the long run, the onlyone your are be-littling in the eyes of the world is yourself.

I don't see how a race using a racial slur to refer to themselves is demeaning. Not if they don't see it as such. It's changing attitudes and meanings of words, words always change over time, better that it is amelioration.

Should a racial slur still be an offensive word if it's being used by the people it affects in a mutual understanding?

It's context isn't it.. I call my mates c**ts alot, and it's fine, as you say, mutual understanding - it's not used as an insult, although they know when it is because of tone etc. But I don't meet a stranger, and call them it no matter what the context unless intended to offend, that'd be rude and would probably result with me getting a smack in the mouth. However even if you have a mutual understanding, if other people overhear then connotations can piss people off regardless. I get in trouble when teachers over hear me use the "c" word, although they just go "language!".

But if I used the "n" word, because I'm not black, it would be rude regardless.

i ain't gettin no playin foo

i ain't gettin no playin foo

what is a foo?



Irico - you dirty slur you!

lol.......ok you can call him a "slur" too, but just you and i!


Hey! That's not nice to say to a cripple

oh shush and go back to swabbing the deck :fluffle: