NationStates Jolt Archive

The "War on Drugs" is a failure. It makes the huge error of fighting the supply and not the demand.

The solution may lay in the 'safe injection sites'. We should provide free drugs to addicts, focusing on Herion and Crack but I can see other drugs being used as well. (Do the few safe injection sites in existance now offer free drugs??)

Requirements of this program would be:

1) All addicts would have to register with a lot of info (name, residence (or wherever they can usually be found), Social Security/Insurance Number (or the equivalent), etc.). For their drugs they'd do anything and we can monitor them better this way.

2) Facilities are safe and isolated from the general population. Just in case some of the addicts are mentally unstable. Isolation also allows easier expansion just in case there is a lot of 'fans' of the program :)

3) Have a bus service available for addicts who can still function in society so they may rejoin it. Keep bus stop a fair walk away from the institution so that particular bus (and the passengers therein) won't be discriminated against or be thought of as 'those people'.

4) Enact program nationwide near the problem areas.

5) Couple this program with psychological services and put people in jail for drug use offenses (Misdemeanors, certainly. Felonies, depends) in the program. Cheaper than jail.

6) If the addicts insist on staying, let them. They are cooperative in their new home and it is still cheaper than jail. (Hey, appeals are costly and jails don't rehabilitate.)

7) Free health services to fix whatever their lifestyle might have screwed up. (They'd get the same thing in jail anyway.)

8) Allow links with reputable religious denominations so those with no link to society and life can find one. (Yeah, that's right. I said it. It's only one of the few times religion can be useful. Although, I wouldn't let the religious groups run the places. I fear they'l eliminate the free drugs on moral grounds eventually.)

9) Keep privacy of 'casual' patients.

10) Use seized drugs as the source of drugs the place will use. Tested for quality of course.

11) Use effective drug substitutes when possible. With declining drug use and seizures this will be a reality someday anyway.

(Essentially, a new form of asylum institution.)

This program is a good thing because:

1) With no one buying from drug dealers anymore they will have no reason to get people hooked in the first place. Gangs and other criminal groups will lose a large source of income and give it up since there is no profit.

2) Less drug availabilty (due to gangs dropping the practice) will mean less people getting hooked so there will be fewer future addicts.

3) Addicts stop robbing people and homes to get their fix.

4) Less worries about drug traffickers means more attention towards terrorists (and/or illegal immigrants).

5) Supporting this program is not supporting or 'moralizing' drug use any more than being against the death penalty is supporting murder. In fact as mentioned above, it will likely reduce drug use in the long term.

6) Diseases that can be spread by drug use lose a valuable method of transmission.

7) Less money spent on police, FBI, military and whatever else that's used to track and fight drug lords. Less taxes and government waste.

8) Less prostitution (no hooking for money to buy drugs) which robs gangs of another source of income. Another disease transmission source ended and another societal ill resolved somewhat.

Comments?
Spelling/Grammar errors?
Additions based on fits of genius?
Sense of deja vu?
Relogging into NS due to the freaking long time it took to write this?

Apologies for the long post. Man's gotta rant sometimes. :D :sniper:

(Hey, at least it's formatted nicely!)

Or we could just legalize all drugs.

No one's gonna buy their drugs of a dealer when you can buy them in the liquor store.

The only problem is how will I pay for college. :(

Or we could just legalize all drugs.

No one's gonna buy their drugs of a dealer when you can buy them in the liquor store.

The only problem is how will I pay for college. :(

My point was to eliminate addicts. That won't help.

Legalizing it will solve the gang problem (probably) but there are many more isues at hand.

Research and successful drug policies shows that treatment should be increased and law enforcement decreased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences.

Research and successful drug policies shows that treatment should be increased and law enforcement decreased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences.
They're trying to build a prison, don't you know.

the so-called 'drugwar" is an even bigger lie then the war on Terrorism

Research and successful drug policies shows that treatment should be increased and law enforcement decreased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences.

Links?

Or we could just legalize all drugs.

No one's gonna buy their drugs of a dealer when you can buy them in the liquor store.

If this statement were in principle true, then nobody would buy either smuggled tobacco or illegally brewed poteen: the legislation of drugs would place a high duty on substances and so there would remain some black market which would undercut these prices.

Yes, it's a good idea, although it need not be so complex. Heroin used to be availible with a doctors prescription in Australia. That system, while not perfect, worked fairly well compared to prohibition.

people have an inalienable right to get high

Yes, it's a good idea, although it need not be so complex. Heroin used to be availible with a doctors prescription in Australia. That system, while not perfect, worked fairly well compared to prohibition.

It may be complex but how else would you monitor the safety of the addicts as well as the 'safe injection' aspect?

It is not just free drugs I'm suggesting here. We have to make sure that their quality of life is improved. The safety of the populace has to be considered as well since we don't know where or when they'll shoot up if we don't monitor them. Mommy could be a meanie when she's on the horse.

If this statement where in principle true, then nobody would buy either smuggled tobacco or illegally brewed poteen: the legislation of drugs would place a high duty on substances and so there would remain some black market which would undercut these prices.

There would be some black market, but I'm pretty sure if drugs were legalized alot of the market(black, grey and white) would vanish because alot of people would grow their own, hard(to make at home) drugs would be the main market for stores and the cops freed up from busting kids selling chronic could be used to arrest black market drug movers.

If you legalized prostitution then organized crime would be given a double kick in the groin(metaphorically speaking), they would be quickly running out of income sources and alot of people who live off of crime would have to find legal jobs, there just wouldn't be enough money to go around in the underworld.

If you legalized prostitution then organized crime would be given a double kick in the groin(metaphorically speaking), they would be quickly running out of income sources and alot of people who live off of crime would have to find legal jobs, there just wouldn't be enough money to go around in the underworld.

Hey: it's easy enough - when the government takes away your main source of income from dealing drugs you just step into the protection racket and make sure no unfortunate accidental fires start on the premises now selling your old product.

Hey: it's easy enough - when the government takes away your main source of income from dealing drugs you just step into the protection racket and make sure no unfortunate accidental fires start on the premises now selling your old product.


There is no consumer demand for the protection racket though. So it's a little easier to deal with, as markets do not spring up.

I say make all drugs legal and make them as pure as possible...so that all the f**ktards OD and take themselves out of the gene pool.

There is a reason drugs like heroin and cocaine are illegal. Whether (sp?) the drugs come from a pusher or from the government the effects drugs have on people wont change. After a while the addict is going to need more drugs to get the same fix they got the first few times. So instead of murdering someone to get money to buy drugs with we just give it to them for free. Eventually they will need so much that they will overdose and die. Then the government are responsible for the death of the addict.

Making drugs free wont stop demand for them. We have just been doing demand and supply in economics. If a ceiing is set by making the drugs free, the equilibrium between demand and supply is unbalanced. Then there will be a greater demand for drugs than the government can supply, creating a drug shortage. The drugs then would have to be rationed, once again forcing addicts to commit crimes to get drugs and bring drug rings back into business.

Actually, all "Free Drug" programs have failed. Why? Hard drugs, such as Heroin and Crack, can't be used in moderation. Ask the druggies of any of the programs currently instituted; none of them intend to quit. Providing people with free drugs isn't going to lessen the problem at all.

Hard drugs, such as Heroin and Crack, can't be used in moderation.

Yes they can, when not used as a means of escapism. It's just that it requires a fairly large amount of willpower....most addicts take it to either escape from a perceived threat in their life, or because they want to 'party'; both groups exhibit little willpower and generally have no self-control. It is possible to use hard drugs in moderation (I know people who do). What we need to do is remove this escapist, uncaring hedonistic element from society....which ODs will conveniently do for us [/jk]

It may be complex but how else would you monitor the safety of the addicts as well as the 'safe injection' aspect?

It is not just free drugs I'm suggesting here. We have to make sure that their quality of life is improved. The safety of the populace has to be considered as well since we don't know where or when they'll shoot up if we don't monitor them. Mommy could be a meanie when she's on the horse.

Natural selection. People who can regulate their drug habits live productive lives, those who can't become homeless and no one will sleep with them. :)

Of course, the smack whores might still exist, but if you legalize that too then they will be able to take care of themselves.

The only reason drugs are such a huge part of western society now, is a huge need for them by our latest generation, who should be called empty generation No.3.Corruption of course plays ahuge part in why drugs are still getting in largely unchecked.

My solution would be a hard one, because you need hard decisions to fix up such a huge problem.
The only problems I can see saving our nations youth from themselves, would be soft libertarians, who cant see the forest for the trees, and of course the corruption helping fuel the drug trade.

There is a reason drugs like heroin and cocaine are illegal. Whether (sp?) the drugs come from a pusher or from the government the effects drugs have on people wont change. After a while the addict is going to need more drugs to get the same fix they got the first few times. So instead of murdering someone to get money to buy drugs with we just give it to them for free. Eventually they will need so much that they will overdose and die. Then the government are responsible for the death of the addict.

Making drugs free wont stop demand for them. We have just been doing demand and supply in economics. If a ceiing is set by making the drugs free, the equilibrium between demand and supply is unbalanced. Then there will be a greater demand for drugs than the government can supply, creating a drug shortage. The drugs then would have to be rationed, once again forcing addicts to commit crimes to get drugs and bring drug rings back into business.

Which is why I'm suggesting a facility where they can get high. So they DON'T OD and can seek legit treatment.

A shortage of narcotics? Joking, right?

"How am I going to get rid of all this crack?"

Since no new addicts are being made and THERE WILL NEVER BE A SHORTAGE your whole scenario is wrong.

The consumption of the substance is easily limited since too much is lethal.

by making the drugs free, the equilibrium between demand and supply is unbalanced. Then there will be a greater demand for drugs than the government can supply, creating a drug shortage. The drugs then would have to be rationed, once again forcing addicts to commit crimes to get drugs and bring drug rings back into business.

If the government makes salt free, the equilibrium between demand and supply is unbalanced. Then there will be a greater demand for salt than the government can supply, creating a salt shortage. The salt would have to be rationed, once again forcing chefs to commit crimes to get salt and bring salt rings back into business.

Come back after you get to the bit about elastic and inelastic demand.

Most people don't want to become a heroin addict, even if they can get heroin for free, or at low cost.

Actually, all "Free Drug" programs have failed. Why? Hard drugs, such as Heroin and Crack, can't be used in moderation. Ask the druggies of any of the programs currently instituted; none of them intend to quit. Providing people with free drugs isn't going to lessen the problem at all.

Problems that get solved are:

1. Addicts no longer need to commit crimes to get drugs.
2. Criminal gangs lose revenue.
3. It will help protect the health of addicts.
4. With a secure drug supply addicts can reenter mainstream society, hold down jobs, start families, support their grandmothers, etc.
5. Help can be made available to those who want to quit.

They're trying to build a prison, don't you know.

:D

3) Have a bus service available for addicts who can still function in society so they may rejoin it. Keep bus stop a fair walk away from the institution so that particular bus (and the passengers therein) won't be discriminated against or be thought of as 'those people'.
Don't you mean "rejoice in it"?

If the government makes salt free, the equilibrium between demand and supply is unbalanced. Then there will be a greater demand for salt than the government can supply, creating a salt shortage. The salt would have to be rationed, once again forcing chefs to commit crimes to get salt and bring salt rings back into business.

Come back after you get to the bit about elastic and inelastic demand.

Most people don't want to become a heroin addict, even if they can get heroin for free, or at low cost.
That assumes that the government is a supplier of salt.

Which is why I'm suggesting a facility where they can get high. So they DON'T OD and can seek legit treatment.

A shortage of narcotics? Joking, right?

"How am I going to get rid of all this crack?"

Since no new addicts are being made and THERE WILL NEVER BE A SHORTAGE your whole scenario is wrong.

The consumption of the substance is easily limited since too much is lethal.

A facility where they don't OD? It doesn't matter if there is a facility or not. If they need more drugs to match the origional fix, even if that amount will kill them, they will get it. They can get it two ways. Your facility can give it to them and kill them. Or they can get it off drug dealers. You can't control the amount of drugs they take or they withdraw. You need to get them off the drugs all togeather by giving them methodone instead of heroin. But some wont voluntarily get off drugs because the drugs help them escape from reality. There are already methodone clinics which users can go to if they want to get off drugs.

How can you say there wont be any new addicts. There are always going to be people who want to try something like heroin or cocaine and then become addicted to it. They could go to drug dealer for it. Since we want to take dealers out of business altogeather the government would have to give it to the newbies for free or risk a new market popping up. In which case demand would rise, the equilibrium bould be unbalance and my scenario wouldn't be all that wrong.

A facility where they don't OD? It doesn't matter if there is a facility or not. If they need more drugs to match the origional fix, even if that amount will kill them, they will get it. They can get it two ways. Your facility can give it to them and kill them. Or they can get it off drug dealers. You can't control the amount of drugs they take or they withdraw. You need to get them off the drugs all togeather by giving them methodone instead of heroin. But some wont voluntarily get off drugs because the drugs help them escape from reality. There are already methodone clinics which users can go to if they want to get off drugs. [/QUOTE}

1) The facility simply will not give them enough to OD on.

2) Most ODs are accidental. Addicts are experts on knowing how much they need and how to apply it.

3) Drug dealers will have no reason to exist.

4) I have noted that substitues and synthetics should be used when available (includes methadone).

5) Did you read the original post at all? Drug dealers will have no reason to exist with this sytem.

[QUOTE]
How can you say there wont be any new addicts. There are always going to be people who want to try something like heroin or cocaine and then become addicted to it. They could go to drug dealer for it. Since we want to take dealers out of business altogeather the government would have to give it to the newbies for free or risk a new market popping up. In which case demand would rise, the equilibrium bould be unbalance and my scenario wouldn't be all that wrong.

Irrelevant since drug dealers will no longer exist since they cannot make a profit if someone is giving it away for free and ONLY TO THOSE ALREADY ADDICTED.

If the newbies SOMEHOW get ahold of drugs and get addicted they just go to the government. There is no reason for drug dealers to exist because they can't make money on the comeback demand, so they won't be around to get people hooked in the first place. They'll quit dealing drugs.

Thought out post, and I agree with the majority of what you're proposing, however, couldn't help but pick you up on one thing --


3) Have a bus service available for addicts who can still function in society so they may rejoin it. Keep bus stop a fair walk away from the institution so that particular bus (and the passengers therein) won't be discriminated against or be thought of as 'those people'.


If I had just collected my free herion from this centre, it would be much more tolerating of my needs and condition to have the bus stop close to the centre, no? I mean, it's either walk to the bus stop....or loiter around the centre smacking all day and not make an active effort to improve my position in society and thus embody the potential rewards such a centre can offer. ;)

They're trying to build a prison, don't you know.
For you and me... :D

For you and me... :D
I buy my crack, I smack my bitch right here in Hollywood!
[/threadjack]

Thought out post, and I agree with the majority of what you're proposing, however, couldn't help but pick you up on one thing --



If I had just collected my free herion from this centre, it would be much more tolerating of my needs and condition to have the bus stop close to the centre, no? I mean, it's either walk to the bus stop....or loiter around the centre smacking all day and not make an active effort to improve my position in society and thus embody the potential rewards such a centre can offer. ;)

You may have a point since I was debating the bus service myself.

Perhaps a private shuttle would be best. They could then request to be dropped off where they need to be since it doesn't follow a fixed route. Better than having them wander from a bus stop to home.