NationStates Jolt Archive

It's not - the fact of the matter is that it calls for, besides social oppression, subjugation of all businesses under the government. Last I checked, right-wing economics work under the philosophy that businesses, for the most part, should be allowed to function as they so please.

Thus facism =/= right-wing. If we apply its social and economic authoritarianism to the political compass, we place it on the upper-left section of the Compass.

I say you can't really think of political groups on a line scale...It's more of a loop. Thus the extremes are very similar, even while they're different. I hope that makes sense.

That's communist dictatorship you're thinking of. True fasacist governments are pro-big business. Mussolini was a firm believer that the people at the top deserved to be there, and could treat those at the bottom however they wanted.

In fascist dictatorships, the rich and powerful get much richer and a lot more powerful.

I don't know much about Moussilini, but under Hitler the German economy was pretty tightly controlled. It wasn't called the National Socialist Party for nothing.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power"
Mussolini said that. Now tell me that he was left wing

I've always seen fascism as closer to the center. Because it's not like communism, yet it has a dcontrolled economy. I don't know where exactly it sits.

The whiole merging of corporate power with government really throws a monkey wrench into things.

I don't know much about Moussilini, but under Hitler the German economy was pretty tightly controlled. It wasn't called the National Socialist Party for nothing.
Yeah, hitlers crushing of the trade unions really turned the country radically left wing

its easy why people think fascism is left wing... its becuase it is. Right (edit- my bad) wingers want huge business, a small class ruling over a large class (large gaps), govt. controll over everything, big brother/gestapo sorta crap.



communist/socialist = crazy liberal (goal = no govt, no classes)

-the true communist wants the the govt to own everything and have a classless society where everyone is paid the same, eventaully, the govt that owns everything will be dissolved to nothing, and the people will own everything. Unofortuantely, i dont believe this has worked EVER. Any one who wants to take control of the communist govt can do so without worrying about a strong central govt or ordered body to stop them = communist-like dictatorships, which is a form of communism but not true communism (marx). Most of europe is socialist, doesnt mean its bad, it means govt has more control economically = not so free market, america has essentially a free-market economy.

fascism/dictatorship = crazy conservative (classes with big economic gaps)

-true fascism is a large centralized govt (could be a dictator - moussolini) with a few in power and the rest underneath. there are social classes. and moussolini made the trains run on time to (+) lol. anyway, so fascists are way right economically and politically.

its easy why people think fascism is left wing... its becuase it is. Right (edit- my bad) wingers want huge business, a small class ruling over a large class (large gaps), govt. controll over everything, big brother/gestapo sorta crap.
You have a faulty definition of left and right. Left and right, when used correctly, should refer purely to economics. For instance, the US Libertarian Party is really far right-wing, but they don't stand for restrictive government at all. Likewise, the Stalinists were left-wing, and stood for all sorts of restrictive things.

A more accurate political spectrum has two axis, left to right, and social libertarianism to social authoritarianism.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power"
Mussolini said that. Now tell me that he was left wing

It's because it's a merger that it's left wing. A right wing government would give business a free hand, not a merger with the state.

Yeah, hitlers crushing of the trade unions really turned the country radically left wing

Hitler just didn't like anything that he wasn't in control over. He did the same thing with churches and youth organizations.

Fascist economics are their own special category. They borrow a lot from both socialism and capitalism (the wrong parts of each, I think.) What makes fascism right wing is its focus on law and order, intolerance of minorities, anti-intellectualism, nationalism, militarism and conservatism. Look at fascist rhetoric: they appeal to "family values" and accuse their opponents of moral corruption.

You have a faulty definition of left and right. Left and right, when used correctly, should refer purely to economics. For instance, the US Libertarian Party is really far right-wing, but they don't stand for restrictive government at all. Likewise, the Stalinists were left-wing, and stood for all sorts of restrictive things.

A more accurate political spectrum has two axis, left to right, and social libertarianism to social authoritarianism.

i think it has 3, otherwise you can't distinguish the democratic totalitarians from the dictatorians.

I don't know much about Moussilini, but under Hitler the German economy was pretty tightly controlled. It wasn't called the National Socialist Party for nothing.
Hitler despised the communists, maybe even more than he hated Jews. His alliance with Stalin (which he broke in less than 2 years) shocked everybody, because Stalin was who he hated most.

In fascism business is controlled, but controlled in such a way that the poor have no way to change their status or get paid well. They turned it into something where the dictator's rich friends were given total control to do what they wanted with their enterprise. Pay people 3 cents a day if they wanted, employ toddlers, no environmental laws. The bosses were given complete control to make their own decisions. Business was regulated by the few with a lot of money and power. It may have a few things in common with communism, but that's because when you go insanely left or right, the two start to look the same.

The tendency of right-wing governments to be authoritarian and "facist" no doubt.

In europe and the US, in modern times, leftist governments have been overwhelming liberal.

If we look at history, Fascism can fall onto either area of the spectrum.

Stalin=Communist "left-wing"
Mussolini=Capitalist "right-wing"

I however, maintain that once you step into the realm of fascism, you no longer belong on the spectrum...'cause your off it.

I don't know much about Moussilini, but under Hitler the German economy was pretty tightly controlled. It wasn't called the National Socialist Party for nothing.
Nazism was not facism nor was it socialism. I could creat a party called the National Liberty Party and take away every freedom in the country, that wouldn't make it libertarian.

Facism IS right wing.

Fascism (in Italian, fascismo), capitalized, refers to the right-wing authoritarian political movement which ruled Italy from 1922 to 1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini. The word fascism (uncapitalized) has come to mean any political stance or system of government resembling Mussolini's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facism

It isn't neccessarily right-wing, but for all purposes, let's just say that it is semantically. It's much easier and I think people understand the concept we're trying to convey.

I personally view Fascism as sort of an Authoritarian Center as far as the Political Compass goes. People like to claim that the propaganda and "intolerance" is somehow a right wing idea, which is essentially bullshit. Certain things work for controlling people, en masse psychological manipulation will work for ANYONE and there are a few REALLY effective ways of doing it. Hitler was one (and certainly not the only one) that managed to make it work well. This sort of thing really has no place on the Political Compass, anyone can use it (while anyone and everyone uses propaganda, it does tend to be used as a tool by Authoritarians in general as a way to achieve that end. Simply put, it works.)

It wasn't Communist, that much goes without saying. HOWEVER, it sure as well wasn't Capitalism and it sure as hell wasn't a free market. Center fits best. Hell, Feudalism fits better then Capitalism. Think about it, you have the one man on top, you have the "nobility" below him, you have the soldiers to keep everything in line, and you have the bulk of everyone on the bottom. No one has any hope of rising (except maybe become a soldier who keeps the status quo for some extra rights), there is no opportunity to those who aren't born with it, and people are made to become accustomed to it.

If we look at history, Fascism can fall onto either area of the spectrum.

Stalin=Communist "left-wing"
Mussolini=Capitalist "right-wing"

I however, maintain that once you step into the realm of fascism, you no longer belong on the spectrum...'cause your off it.

Corporatist != Capitalist

Capitalism is hands-off, corporatism is intervention/union of state and corporation.