NationStates Jolt Archive

A man and a woman are considering marriage. The woman intends to keep her own surname when they are wed, and the man feels it is perfectly reasonable for her to do so. However, they then begin to debate how any children they produce might be named. The man and woman each have long and complicated last names, so giving a child a hyphenated last name would not be practical.

The man believes the woman should simply give ground, since it is traditional for children to be given their father's surname, and that the children should have her last name for a middle name and his last name for their surname. The woman feels that the man should give ground because she is the one who will have to endure pregnancy and childbirth, and that his last name should be their middle name while hers is the surname.

Who is wrong, if anyone? What is a fair solution?

They should make a new name, and have a short and snappy last name, like 001. That'd solve ALL difficulties.*


*only take the first 6 words of this post entirely seriously. The rest is just what'd happen in an ideal world.... :D

A man and a woman are considering marriage. The woman intends to keep her own surname when they are wed, and the man feels it is perfectly reasonable for her to do so. However, they then begin to debate how any children they produce might be named. The man and woman each have long and complicated last names, so giving a child a hyphenated last name would not be practical.

The man believes the woman should simply give ground, since it is traditional for children to be given their father's surname, and that the children should have her last name for a middle name and his last name for their surname. The woman feels that the man should give ground because she is the one who will have to endure pregnancy and childbirth, and that his last name should be their middle name while hers is the surname.

Who is wrong, if anyone? What is a fair solution?

Use the man's last name, of course. If the kids want to use their mother's last name, they may do so upon their majority.

Seriously, though... they can't use both, especially if these are somewhat like their last names:

Husband: Humphries-Shangleton
Wife: Smith-Kensington

lol

Use the man's last name, of course. If the kids want to use their mother's last name, they may do so upon their majority.
Why?

An amalgamation of their names? Like Luis and Sheridan becomes Shuis or Eve and Julian would become Evian.

It's always difficult, this. Either way, if they have anything but a double-barrelled surname people are instantly going to assume they're from a previous marriage of whichever parent's name they take, along with all the associated baggage there. It's double-barrelling or nothing, if neither parent will change.

An amalgamation of their names? Like Luis and Sheridan becomes Shuis or Eve and Julian would become Evian.

But then my sister's kids would have to been named Shill, which just sounds wrong, or Geridan, which sounds like something which would destroy Tokyo. Besides, that doesn't keep either family happy; it's all about name-preservation.

Why?

TRADITION!

(you didn't catch the ;) ?)

An amalgamation of their names? Like Luis and Sheridan becomes Shuis or Eve and Julian would become Evian.
That's actually a pretty interesting idea...that would let both names "live on," without having to use a cumbersome hyphenation. Plus, with long and complicated names to work with, it would be a little bit like a game of baby-name Scrabble.

TRADITION!

(you didn't catch the ;) ?)
Lol. I'm a tad slow this morning.

If both parents have double barrelled surnames, can't they just pick one barrell from each parents. They'd probably offend some grandparents that way though.

Use the man's last name, of course. If the kids want to use their mother's last name, they may do so upon their majority.

That's actually what I did. Upon my 18th birthday, I went down to the county clerk and had my surname officially changed to my mother's maiden name. Cost me $10 to do it.

I'm Chinese, so I end up with my father's surname by default.
Surname hyphenation is stupid in my opinion.

If both parents have double barrelled surnames, can't they just pick one barrell from each parents. They'd probably offend some grandparents that way though.
Yeah, that's another area of concern...choosing a completely new surname for the kids, or mixing up letters to make a fresh name, may hurt the feelings of extended family who want to see their name carried on.

That's actually what I did. Upon my 18th birthday, I went down to the county clerk and had my surname officially changed to my mother's maiden name. Cost me $10 to do it.
Did your mother originally want to give you her name, or was she content to give you your father's name when you were born?

Surname hyphenation is stupid in my opinion.
Ouch...I guess my name is pretty stupid, then :(. It does have some draw backs, such as never being able to fit my name on a standardized form or exam sheet, but I like my name and wouldn't trade it for anything.

They should have two kids and give each one the other surnames.

My first instinct is to say that they should take the mother's name. After all, the maternal parent is the only one you ever know for sure. =)

Seriously though, I don't think there is a right or wrong here. It's up to the family in question. When I get married and have children, I'll most likely have the same problem. I will also most likely give my children their father's surname, because his family would probably be bothered otherwise and I have no special attachment to mine. In truth, the only reason I won't change my name when I get married is that I am already published under my own. While my official name won't change, there's a good chance that I will go by my husband's name in most of everyday life.

Did your mother originally want to give you her name, or was she content to give you your father's name when you were born?

Well she took my father's name when they married and I was given the paternal name at birth. I chose because I was always closer to my mother's family than my father's and I am equally as much one as the other.

I had already spent 4 years in high school introducing myself to people using her maiden name (which is her father's family name, so I guess technically I switched to his name ... heh) and was just used to using it by then.

That's actually what I did. Upon my 18th birthday, I went down to the county clerk and had my surname officially changed to my mother's maiden name. Cost me $10 to do it.

I had a friend in high school whose mother had remarried. His stepfather wanted to adopt him, but his jerk of a real father (who he hated) would never allow it. He still went by his stepfather's (and mother's) surname in every day life, although his real surname was on everything official. He also changed it the day he turned 18.

Lol. I'm a tad slow this morning.

hehe. Change your last name to "Coffee"!

Well she took my father's name when they married and I was given the paternal name at birth. I chose because I was always closer to my mother's family than my father's and I am equally as much one as the other.

I had already spent 4 years in high school introducing myself to people using her maiden name (which is her father's family name, so I guess technically I switched to his name ... heh) and was just used to using it by then.
That makes sense, then, if you'd been using the name for so long. I know a fellow who goes by his adoptive mother's name even though he legally has his birth-father's, and it can be very confusing for school officials...I don't know if he is aware that he can simply get it changed, so I'll let him know.

That's actually what I did. Upon my 18th birthday, I went down to the county clerk and had my surname officially changed to my mother's maiden name. Cost me $10 to do it.

cool beans

would you mind sharing why you did that (just curious... not writing a paper or performing a study... hehe)?

hehe. Change your last name to "Coffee"!
But then it would just be ironic...somebody with the last name "coffee" has got to be a morning person, otherwise it's just plain silly! My last name should be "pillow" or "snoozebutton." :)

we will Cut the Baby IN HALF!
and then figure out the name issue.

Personally I'd go with tradition and give the kids the fathers name but if thats out of the question they could always give any boys the fathers name and girls the mothers name. Not very practical but a compromise :).

Haha... this is the LEAST of their problems. Maybe they should wait to have kids until they can be willing to give enough one way or the other and work together. It would probably be best for the kids! I had a horrific last name, and I married my husband with no qualms of giving it up! Now, I have a nice, easy to pronounce scottish name. They'll probably run through the same thing with first names. They just need to decide on something and stick with it for all the kids. I had a different last name from my mom and hated it, because I lived with her, so people were alway calling me her last name anyways. Eh, I'm done rambling. Why won't she take his last name? Or vice versa?

give the baby a numerical name like
baby 1
baby 2
etc

cool beans

would you mind sharing why you did that (just curious... not writing a paper or performing a study... hehe)?

A variety of reasons ...

I was always closer to my mother's family.

My father had died when I was 16 and I was sort of left to fend for myself. Officially my dad's brother took me in, but that never actually happened outside of on paper. So, a little anger at my dad's family is part of it. (Yes, I'm over it now)

A little because, as an American, Washington is a damn cool surname to have. :D That, and people are constantly taken aback by my blue eyes and pale-ish skin with the name Washington. 99% of Americans have probably never met a "white" Washington.

Lots of little reasons, I suppose. Some out of respect, some out of rebellion, some out of whimsy.

Edit: I do still use my father's last name for mailing list and junk purposes from time to time. It's like having a separate phone number used exclusively for sales people.

Haha... this is the LEAST of their problems. Maybe they should wait to have kids until they can be willing to give enough one way or the other and work together. It would probably be best for the kids!

I'd say they are showing exactly the right attitude for a parent at this point...they are discussing this problem before they even get married, let alone before the birth of a child. Parents will not always agree, that's simple reality, and trying to find compromises is a key part of sharing the responsibility of parenting.


I had a horrific last name, and I married my husband with no qualms of giving it up! Now, I have a nice, easy to pronounce scottish name. They'll probably run through the same thing with first names.

In my opinion, neither of their last names is horrible. They're both pretty, though they are also both somewhat difficult to spell and sound out.


They just need to decide on something and stick with it for all the kids. I had a different last name from my mom and hated it, because I lived with her, so people were alway calling me her last name anyways.

I agree that all the children should probably have the same surname, to avoid this kind of confusion. However, my last name is a hyphenated combination of both my parents', so my last name doesn't "match" either of my parents. I am sometimes called by my father's name or by my mother's, typically by strangers who don't know any better, and it's only slightly annoying at this point. My parents actually found it to be a helpful safety measure...if a stranger ever tried to convince me that he was a friend of the family, I would be easily able to tell he was lying because he would get my name(s) wrong :).

Eh, I'm done rambling. Why won't she take his last name? Or vice versa?
Well, which do you suggest? She doesn't want to bear, deliver, and rear children who won't carry her name, and he doesn't want to rear children who won't carry his. Both of them are individuals with strong senses of family, and each has "made a name" for themselves that they deserve to be proud of. I can understand why they both want their kids to carry their name. So who should be told they must lose out? I'm looking for a fair solution, not necessarily the fastest or easiest solution.

I would say that the naming of a baby is traditionally given the father's surname, unless he is not in the picture.

My question is does anybody know if this tradition has become law in some states?

Just curious, not really sure if Indiana does or not.

merge the two last names together

Flip a coin.

I went through exactly this process with the naming of our son. My wife has retained her maiden name for professional reasons, changing names on documents is complicated if you marry abroad. As my family has a long standing tradition of naming for the first born son, whereas her family has no particular tradition above and beyond the standard culture, we opted to follow my family's tradition. If we had had a second child, it would probably have borne her surname. (Just to seriously confuse the future geneolgists.)

The conclusion is that the decision has to be based on the exact circumstances, the values of the families involved, the location where the child will grow up etc. There is no general answer.

Who cares - just as long as they don't name their kids "Apple" or "Moon Unit" or something equally as stupid.

Tradition works for me.

Or, we could go with what the old norse used to do:

Clothilde Helgasdottir

Ollie Johansson

The easy way is to alternate. Kid 1 has the man's surname with the mother's surname as the middle name. Kid 2 has the reverse. Alternate as needed.

We all are ignoring one key issue: Whose name comes first in the alphabet? Kids whose names appear earlier in the alphabet have it slightly easier, especially in situations where people are called by alphabetical order. This is one reason my fiancee intends to take my last name when we get married...her name is buried clear back in the last half of the alphabet while mine is closer to the beginning.

That said, my idea is about as solid as a lot of ideas here. That or maybe they should play a round of golf every time they want a baby, and the winner names the baby, first, middle, and last.

We all are ignoring one key issue: Whose name comes first in the alphabet? Kids whose names appear earlier in the alphabet have it slightly easier, especially in situations where people are called by alphabetical order. This is one reason my fiancee intends to take my last name when we get married...her name is buried clear back in the last half of the alphabet while mine is closer to the beginning.

That said, my idea is about as solid as a lot of ideas here. That or maybe they should play a round of golf every time they want a baby, and the winner names the baby, first, middle, and last.Well, of course, we could all help out here by calling on people in reverse alphabetical order. Or, starting with a different letter all the time - say, "P", working to "Z", then "A" and on to "M". Next time, start with "X" - which should be funny enough - then on to "Z", "A', and ... well, you see.

Are you saying I should have enrolled my kids in Alcoholics Anonymous when they were born, and then named them "Peter AA" and "Mary AA"? ;)

Too late - my kids (living with a last name that starts with "R" and was mine - their mother followed tradition when we got married) are now 17, 20, 22, and 25. The oldest is working on his PhD - on scholarship. The next (our only "dottir") on her Masters - on scholarship. Our second son is a talented musician attending one of the best music schools in the world - on scholarship. Our youngest son is about to graduate from high school and go off to college - on scholarship.

Name 'em whatever you want. Pay a LOT more attention to how you raise 'em.

I love to brag about my kids - they're so great!!

Don't give the kid any name, people are numbers now anyway. THX1138 should do nicely.

Or the mother's if it's a girl and the father's if it's a boy.