NationStates Jolt Archive

Throughout history violence has been a recurring event which plagues human behavior. Even in positions of ultimate power and responsiblity, violence is a dominating factor in just about every decision. Of all events in history most have been solved with violence except a few anomalous occasions. Is violence the main determining factor of survival of all things even if people don't want to admit it? I'm quite liberal-minded on most issues but I have been thinking lately. Maybe it is inevitable to prevent violence due to the millions of years of instinctive evoloutionary programming, maybe global peace is nothing more than a wishful thought.

I would just say it's an inescapable componant of the human condition. We're the most capable predators 3 billion years of constant pressure was able to produce. And when an obstical is destroyed, it's no longer an obstical. The real paradox is that while our capacity for abstraction and reason allow us to escape to more beneficial truths for a time, they also are what allow us to work destruction on such a massive and impersonal scale.

Throughout my life violence has been a recurring event which plagues my behavior. Even in positions of ultimate power and responsiblity, violence is a dominating factor in just about every decision I make. Of all events in my life most have been solved with violence except a few anomalous occasions. Is violence the main determining factor of my survival of all things even if I don't want to admit it? I'm quite liberal-minded on most issues but I have been thinking lately. Maybe it is impossible to prevent my violence due to the millions of years of instinctive evoloutionary programming, maybe a peaceful life is nothing more than a wishful thought.

no.

But it'll take us a long while yet to grow beyond it.

Violence is inevitable:-D.
Actually, the definition of war is to use violence to force the enemy/opponent to submit to my will, preferrably the ruling class or party.
So you see... War is conducted by the elite. They conduct war for their benifit. Violence is only eradicated when people are more enlightened, not thinking all Arabs are war mongers and want to hurt the US or that Bush is a great patriotic leader and you should sacrifice your own hardearned liberties to comply with his notorious police state measures. What use are they anyways? Yahoo news reports that airport security is no better than 9/11. Yet, much money has been spent in placing a soviet like system.

No, but there'll always be asses who fuck things up for the rest. What's it called again? The 20-80 rule?

I think violence is part of human nature. In the animal kingdom, using violence against your own species is a very primitive way of "solving" conflicts within the group. The more advanced a species gets, the more subtle ways of solving conflicts are discovered and put to use. One very good example for that are some of our closest relatives, the bonobos (a race of chimpanzees). They life in very strong family groups and have found a very interessting way of solving social conflicts without violence : Sex.

http://dannyreviews.com/h/Bonobo.html

Maybe it's worth a thought for our race as well?

I think violence is part of human nature. In the animal kingdom, using violence against your own species is a very primitive way of "solving" conflicts within the group. The more advanced a species gets, the more subtle ways of solving conflicts are discovered and put to use. One very good example for that are some of our closest relatives, the bonobos (a race of chimpanzees). They life in very strong family groups and have found a very interessting way of solving social conflicts without violence : Sex.

http://dannyreviews.com/h/Bonobo.html

Maybe it's worth a thought for our race as well?
Last time we tried that we were called hippies :rolleyes:

Maybe it is inevitable to prevent violence due to the millions of years of instinctive evoloutionary programming, maybe global peace is nothing more than a wishful thought.

No it's not. Always look on the bright side of death.

It's easy to get depressed about the amount of violence in the world, but think about this. Have you ever killed anyone or even seen someone killed? A few thousand years ago there would have been very few adult men who wouldn't have killed someone or had a hand in killing someone. Humans in their natural state tend to be a pretty violent lot. Anyone outside of the extended family was generally considered a threat. We seem to have an inbuilt fear and mistrust of outsiders. On the other hand, we are also capable of rational thought.

The story of civilization is very roughly one of the extension of the concept of who is in your group. From families and clans developed villages and towns, then city states, then empires, religions, nations, superpowers, NATO, etc.

There is a growing portion of the population who consider all of humanity as belonging to their group. We may wipe ourselves out before the bulk of humanity reaches this position, but we're getting there. This is why I am concerned about people who are eager to put people into a category called enemies. Yes, we need to protect ourselves from violence, but the best way to protect ourselves over the long term is to build cooperation and understanding, rather than identifying and killing enemies.

We definately have the capacity to resort to violence, but we don't have to. We have the ability to make rational choices. Most humans have a very powerful sex drive, but very few perform sex acts in public. I know I don't. And believe me, my drive to have sex is much stronger than my urge to kill anyone.

Yes, violence is interesting, exciting, scary and thought provoking, History would be a dull void without it, you would call it 'herstory' instead.
War the ultimate violence is the father of all history, and the precussor to nearly every other event.
Violence influences people almost as much as love does.

War the ultimate violence is the father of all history, and the precussor to nearly every other event.
Violence influences people almost as much as love does.

This reminds me of an interesting story from the BBC World at War documentary. A survivor of the USSR attack on Finland said that it didn't matter what nationality the soldier was, when badly wounded they all would cry out for their mothers.

This reminds me of an interesting story from the BBC World at War documentary. A survivor of the USSR attack on Finland said that it didn't matter what nationality the soldier was, when badly wounded they all would cry out for their mothers.

Of course, if you cry to Dad, especially back then, you would be either ignored, cursed, cussed, laughed at or worse, whereas mother, would of course fuss all over you etc, so men in great pain will naturally revert back to their childhood at times.

I think violence is part of human nature. In the animal kingdom, using violence against your own species is a very primitive way of "solving" conflicts within the group. The more advanced a species gets, the more subtle ways of solving conflicts are discovered and put to use. One very good example for that are some of our closest relatives, the bonobos (a race of chimpanzees). They life in very strong family groups and have found a very interessting way of solving social conflicts without violence : Sex.

http://dannyreviews.com/h/Bonobo.html

Maybe it's worth a thought for our race as well?
I dunno, you might just get a lot of people having REALLY violent sex.....
However, if that's anybody's thing, I'm not gonna judge you. The "how do you like your sex" conversation is definitely not what I want to get into with perfect strangers.

Last time we tried that we were called hippies :rolleyes:

Considering the sheer number of negative social, economic, and political issues that started during that time period, the hippies demonstrated fairly well that you need a little more than love to get along.

As for the topic at hand, like it or not, violence IS an integral part of human nature... it'd be about as easy to remove as it would be to function in modern society after having both your thumbs severed.

Violence is, as yet, still vital to our continued existence. If this changes, please let me know.

Violence need not mean killing though, a successful application of force (violence) can lead to less violent conflict, less wasteful and harmful conflict. That is the goal of the greatest martialists, those who use knowledge of violence to prevent violence.

That's more than just flowery words and niceties you know; there are practical applications of violence in our world, just as there are stupid and unreasonable ones. Thourough study of the applications of force and when it is better NOT to use it needs to be done before understanding can be reached.

Just we are unlikely to attack the kind, humane, and harmless; we are even less likely to attack if that person is kind, humane and powerful.

Who would we rather attack? A weak person we hate can be attacked, but how many of us can say we would attack someone we hate, knowing it would mean WE would recieve the beating?

"Its better to be loved and feared, but if you must choose one, be feared." Violence must be contained by wisdom and forsight into its use, otherwise it simply invites more violence.

"Its better to be loved and feared, but if you must choose one, be feared."

Machiavelli 'The Prince'? I'm pretty sure something like that sentence is in there.

Machiavelli 'The Prince'? I'm pretty sure something like that sentence is in there.

Yeah, back in college I could've told you what page it was on. Figured I should show my roots once in a while, and it seemed appropriate here. ;)

Also there's a whole lotta paraphrasing of various Chinese war-treatises in there. Wei-Liao Tzu and Wu Tzu, with a smattering of Sun Tzu.

Yeah, back in college I could've told you what page it was on. Figured I should show my roots once in a while, and it seemed appropriate here. ;)

Also there's a whole lotta paraphrasing of various Chinese war-treatises in there. Wei-Liao Tzu and Wu Tzu, with a smattering of Sun Tzu.

I've got Sun Tzu 'Art of War' on CD somewhere, but I left 'The Prince' at home for my year out. I haven't read it in a while. So much stuff to read so little time to read it!

But as for the topic at hand, I believe that violence cannot be excluded from the nature of the 'Human Condition'. It is simply integeral to our existence.

Can it be controlled?

Yes. Of course it can be controlled, but how it is utilised is the key. In self defence or the defence of others, violence is useful tool, but also a necessary one.

Depends on exactly what you consider violence. Killing a plant for food, at a basic level, may be considered a violent act.

Is violence against other humans necessary? Sometimes, yes. But only as a last resort, and always with negative consequences.

Yeah, back in college I could've told you what page it was on. Figured I should show my roots once in a while, and it seemed appropriate here. ;)

Also there's a whole lotta paraphrasing of various Chinese war-treatises in there. Wei-Liao Tzu and Wu Tzu, with a smattering of Sun Tzu.

"CHAPTER XVII: Concerning Cruelty And Clemency, And Whether It Is Better To Be Loved Than Feared" of course. ;)

And I'd be sore disappointed if you hadn't quoted your namesake on this topic. :D

Violence is, as yet, still vital to our continued existence. If this changes, please let me know.

Violence need not mean killing though, a successful application of force (violence) can lead to less violent conflict, less wasteful and harmful conflict. That is the goal of the greatest martialists, those who use knowledge of violence to prevent violence.

That's more than just flowery words and niceties you know; there are practical applications of violence in our world, just as there are stupid and unreasonable ones. Thourough study of the applications of force and when it is better NOT to use it needs to be done before understanding can be reached.

Just we are unlikely to attack the kind, humane, and harmless; we are even less likely to attack if that person is kind, humane and powerful.

Who would we rather attack? A weak person we hate can be attacked, but how many of us can say we would attack someone we hate, knowing it would mean WE would recieve the beating?

"Its better to be loved and feared, but if you must choose one, be feared." Violence must be contained by wisdom and forsight into its use, otherwise it simply invites more violence.
Lovely! Someone else who actually understands Machiavelli rather than just misusing the Misquote.

Your post has been added to my collection Self Defense/RKBA Quotes.