NationStates Jolt Archive

There was a recent poll about which state was the nuttiest. California and Texas were neck-and-neck, while Florida was not far behind.

I submit California has now gone over the edge.

The state's rape statutes used to treat minors that committed rape with kid gloves, giving little more than a slap on the wrist - mandated therapy, maybe some juvenile hall, probation, etc. And then their record would be wiped clean when they turned 18.

Proposition 21 was passed not too long ago to close that loophole, allowing for aggressive prosecution in such cases. However, that statute itself had a loophole, exploited by the defense in a recent rape case.

A 14-year old girl foolishly got in the car with a group of boys, drank a Dr. Pepper, was later given some hard liquor, and later started waking up in great pain, realizing she had been raped. However, her rapist was not given any kind of stiff sentence (his record will be clean at 18), because, somehow, Prop 21 didn't include rape when the person was unconscious. Not sure I understand that, since I read the Proposition, which referred to section 261, which does mention rape when someone is unconscious, but there are probably some juvenile laws that I am not aware of that may supersede that section.

Links:
KGET Rape Story Part 1 (http://www.kget.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=40277FD2-C093-4D83-A4EC-91574687C9DF) KGET Rape Story Part 2 (http://www.kget.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=A68AF305-86E7-4B93-8873-B3A85AC9AEAB)

To add insult to injury, when she went before a committee to ask them to close the loophole, it was voted down, probably because it was proposed by a Republican. See the mother of the rape victim's blog:

Mother of Rape Victim Blog (http://journals.aol.com/victoria60/TheRapeofmy14yearolddaughter)

So, California, in the interest of protecting poor little innocent rapists, and keeping Republicans in line, has decided to allow a rapist to get suspended sentence, pay his victim $10 a month for a year, and, at 18, his record will be clean.

Bump

*suddenly realizes that he lives in Southern California*

I feel a primitive urge to defend my state, but I see nothing to defend. I don't even like the weather here. ****ing either rainy, muddy, windy, or hot.

*suddenly realizes that he lives in Southern California*

I feel a primitive urge to defend my state, but I see nothing to defend. I don't even like the weather here. ****ing either rainy, muddy, windy, or hot.
I always thought California had one of the mildest climates year-round. At least compared to Houston, where we have 6-month summers, temperatures 95, humidity 90%, 2 weeks of fall, 2 weeks of spring, and who knows what in the winter.

*suddenly realizes that he lives in Southern California*

I feel a primitive urge to defend my state, but I see nothing to defend. I don't even like the weather here. ****ing either rainy, muddy, windy, or hot.

You haven't lived very many other places, have you? I'm from so cal, and i've traveled quite a bit. So cal is really really nice. But I agree, politically california is kinda screwed up. I don't know if it would be if so cal and nor cal where separate states. THere are so many people in cal, and mostly norht and south don't agree politically.

I live in Bakersfield, the source of the story... never heard of the case until now, and I watch the news and read the paper daily....

Kern County (specifically Bakersfield) has the highest conviction rate in the entire State of California. In fact, it reminds me a lot of Houston (my original home town). I have been here 10 years, and I would not want to get caught by the cops in this town.... it would be prison for sure, and this county has the highest capital murder conviction rate in the state too.

The proposition will not pass, the most recent election, which offered up a proposition to reduce the severity of "Three Strikes" laws was an overwhelming failure.

My view is California is bi polar. We have the generally liberal coastal cities (except ultra conservative Orange County) and the generally conservative central and eastern areas (except for liberal Sacramento)...

we just have more people living on the coast then in the desert

I always thought California had one of the mildest climates year-round. At least compared to Houston, where we have 6-month summers, temperatures 95, humidity 90%, 2 weeks of fall, 2 weeks of spring, and who knows what in the winter.

I really miss Houston's thunderstorms though.... it sucks getting only 10 inches of rain a year (in a wet year)...we get 105 degree temperatures and 10% humidity...

having lived in both the oven (Bakersfield) and the sauna (Houston) its hard to pick the winner of the worst summer award

I live in Bakersfield, the source of the story... never heard of the case until now, and I watch the news and read the paper daily....

Kern County (specifically Bakersfield) has the highest conviction rate in the entire State of California. In fact, it reminds me a lot of Houston (my original home town). I have been here 10 years, and I would not want to get caught by the cops in this town.... it would be prison for sure, and this county has the highest capital murder conviction rate in the state too.

The proposition will not pass, the most recent election, which offered up a proposition to reduce the severity of "Three Strikes" laws was an overwhelming failure.

My view is California is bi polar. We have the generally liberal coastal cities (except ultra conservative Orange County) and the generally conservative central and eastern areas (except for liberal Sacramento)...

we just have more people living on the coast then in the desert
I'm just a little taken aback that this story has not gotten more play in the national media. I mean, this girl was raped, her rapist is walking free because of a loophole that she was unconscious when it happened, and the legislature is actively opposing any measure to correct the loophole. That has to be some of the most morally bankrupt politics I've seen.

I really miss Houston's thunderstorms though.... it sucks getting only 10 inches of rain a year (in a wet year)...we get 105 degree temperatures and 10% humidity...

having lived in both the oven (Bakersfield) and the sauna (Houston) its hard to pick the winner of the worst summer award
We just had a nor'easter on Mother's Day, knocked out power in several places, blew over some trees, had some minor flooding, all done in about 2 hours. Craziness.

It's a shame california has to be populated by californians.
It's a perfectly good piece of land.

While that's just stupid, Texas still has it in my book. Of course I'm old enough to remember when they finally made raping your wife a crime.

Kern County (specifically Bakersfield) has the highest conviction rate in the entire State of California. In fact, it reminds me a lot of Houston (my original home town). I have been here 10 years, and I would not want to get caught by the cops in this town.... it would be prison for sure, and this county has the highest capital murder conviction rate in the state too.

Just looked up the execution rate in CA (only thru 2002). Since 1963, there have been only 11 executions, many years with no executions, only two with more than one (2 in 96 and 99). So you may be putting them on death row, but they're not going anywhere fast.

While that's just stupid, Texas still has it in my book. Of course I'm old enough to remember when they finally made raping your wife a crime.
It's more than stupid, it's shameful! This guy is getting away with rape, while his victim suffers the consequences of his actions.

On topic: Geez, I hope they eventually get that loophole fixed.

Off topic: Here in Portland (OR) we're pretty lucky, climate-wise. Sure we get a lot of rainy days in a normal Winter, but that helps to keep it green the rest of the year. And, contrary to popular belief, it does not rain all year here. The summers here are drier than most places east of the rockies.... we don't get many thunderstorms (which I personally regret, but some people don't like t-storms). We can't get hurricanes, tornadoes are exceptionally rare and exceptionally weak, our thunderstorms are usually weak, if temperatures reach 100 the humidity is always low, it rarely snows (probably once a year on average, which once again, I regret, but some people don't like snow), and it rarely falls below 25 degrees.

All in all, we have some of the most mild (least exciting, if you want to put it that way) weather in the country, while still maintaining distinct seasons.



But then, I'm obsessed with weather, and I know most people aren't, so I'll stop my rambling now. ;)

You haven't lived very many other places, have you? I'm from so cal, and i've traveled quite a bit. So cal is really really nice. But I agree, politically california is kinda screwed up. I don't know if it would be if so cal and nor cal where separate states. THere are so many people in cal, and mostly norht and south don't agree politically.
No, I've been to Houston 13 months ago. Lovely. Seriously. Rain, rain, rain. It was a constant! You just don't get that here!

It's more than stupid, it's shameful! This guy is getting away with rape, while his victim suffers the consequences of his actions.
Stupid to have the loophole in the first place. Shameful to refuse to close it.

Stupid to have the loophole in the first place. Shameful to refuse to close it.
Agreed.

I usually vote Cali just for the HollyWood factor..

Florida has been nuts for a while.. but .. I expected it. It's a mess. Especially Miami. I Know there are many other cities that effect states overall. Me being from North Carolina.... I'm ashamed of Wilmington. Not what it use to be.. what it is now.


bleh..

I usually vote Cali just for the HollyWood factor..

Florida has been nuts for a while.. but .. I expected it. It's a mess. Especially Miami. I Know there are many other cities that effect states overall. Me being from North Carolina.... I'm ashamed of Wilmington. Not what it use to be.. what it is now.


bleh..
Have you ever read any columns by Mike Adams, at UNC-Wilmington? Good stuff.

I vote for Florida, though there is definitely something weird about California and Texas. However, Texas reportedly has the world's finest BBQ food, so they're off the hook for now.

I vote for Florida, though there is definitely something weird about California and Texas. However, Texas reportedly has the world's finest BBQ food, so they're off the hook for now.
Indeed we do. I have been to countless barbecue cook-offs and sampled the most tender brisket, sausage links, ribs, and chicken, with the tastiest, tangiest barbecue sauce you could ever hope to find this side of the Mississippi. Curious as to your location - Dublin, Ireland - are there lots of barbecue fans there as well?

Have you ever read any columns by Mike Adams, at UNC-Wilmington? Good stuff.


No..and if I was to state the many reason I dislike it now.. I'd be labeled hate filled..

It's just went to shit. Since the acting potential has came .. all the sorry failures come here. It's like a shitty little HollyWood.

A disease infested town now. From drugs and sex.

All rapists deserve to die.

California is like a granola bar. If you take out all the fruits and nuts, all you have left is flakes.

-proud to be a California nut!

California is like a granola bar. If you take out all the fruits and nuts, all you have left is flakes.

-proud to be a California nut!
Not proud of the juvenile rape laws, I hope!

Curious as to your location - Dublin, Ireland - are there lots of barbecue fans there as well?
We rarely have suitable weather for barbeque - so we crave it the more.

Well, not really, there's not much of a BBQ culture here. I like it though.

weird....I thought Canadians were the only ones that obsessively bitched about the weather.

weird....I thought Canadians were the only ones that obsessively bitched about the weather.
No, Ireland is one of those countries with schizophrenic weather that begs to bitched about.

No, Ireland is one of those countries with schizophrenic weather that begs to bitched about.You know, I think its a universal Human charachteristic then. Its something everyone can talk about endlessly with mutual satisfaction; maybe weather has the power to unite us all in peace!

No, Ireland is one of those countries with schizophrenic weather that begs to bitched about.

No wonder.. It rains all the time.. but my goodness.. you have the prettiest grass.

I'm not being sarcastic here.. this year in the USA.. in the southeast .. it rained for a few dyas.. and afterwards we had the prettiest thick, full green grass.

Weather has been strange all over though.

Can't deny that fact. There's been some strange shit occuring.

Can't deny that fact. There's been some strange shit occuring.
That would be the global warming sir.

Exaclty.. and Miss to you ..

Mister?

Not proud of the juvenile rape laws, I hope!

Of course not! :rolleyes:
I thought about writing about that too but couldn't think of anything intelligent to say that already hadn't been said.

I'm just a little taken aback that this story has not gotten more play in the national media. I mean, this girl was raped, her rapist is walking free because of a loophole that she was unconscious when it happened, and the legislature is actively opposing any measure to correct the loophole. That has to be some of the most morally bankrupt politics I've seen.

The story probably hasn't gotten more "play" in the national media because you might not be getting all the facts. News agencies aren't known for showing all sides of the story.

That would be the global warming sir.

Prove that manmade global warming exists.

Hehsfakhajhaeheh. This is why people think we suck, when we're actually much better than people in other states. Well...people from Sillicon Valley anyway. I hate Southern California...

It's a shame california has to be populated by californians.
It's a perfectly good piece of land.

That isn't very nice.

Actually what happened is that democrats declared that if you are sleeping when someone has sex with you, its not rape, its "uconscious consent". I've been watching this and will continue to watch it. There needs to be some changes. One of the things we are going to do is change the definition of the situation back to rape. That's what it is pure and simple. Those who condone such behavior belong in prison along with the rapists.
When I was being raised, I was taught that if you had sex with someone who was asleep or under the influence, it was rape, no ifs, ands or buts about it. But Gloria Molina, the legislator who invented the term "unconscious consent" has been in office for way too long (over 20 years).
What really gets me is that its not one legislator but a huge chunk of them. The California democratic party has really crossed a line here and its going to hurt them in next years elections cause a lot of us, including myself, are going to demand accountability and I for one will keep shoving this in their faces until we get accountability.
Anyone who voted that this was "unconscious consent" is clearly unfit to be in any elective office in California or anywhere else in the US.
Mrs. Molina is one of the most powerful politicians in California, but she has overstretched herself, and contrary to what she has told reporters, she does owe the rape victim an apology and there is a problem with the policy she and her colleagues set forth on the matter.
When I am the next Senator from California, no lame excuses for any crimes will be tolerated.

*suddenly realizes that he lives in Southern California*

I feel a primitive urge to defend my state, but I see nothing to defend. I don't even like the weather here. ****ing either rainy, muddy, windy, or hot.
help change the situation. We are putting a slate of candidates together to take on the established governing class.

You haven't lived very many other places, have you? I'm from so cal, and i've traveled quite a bit. So cal is really really nice. But I agree, politically california is kinda screwed up. I don't know if it would be if so cal and nor cal where separate states. THere are so many people in cal, and mostly norht and south don't agree politically.
Very true but the south always dictates to the north and most often gets its way in the state's legislature as to what laws are passed. Its not that northerners dont' want their own state (they do), but Los Angeles (which controls the entire state government), won't let them. LA freaking dominates the state and decides what the laws are. The legislators who came up with "unconscious consent" were downtown LA.

I wonder if Ms. Molina will have the same view when she's the victim. Unconscious consent? What the hell is wrong with that woman? Everywhere else in the civilized world, that's called rape.

I'm just a little taken aback that this story has not gotten more play in the national media. I mean, this girl was raped, her rapist is walking free because of a loophole that she was unconscious when it happened, and the legislature is actively opposing any measure to correct the loophole. That has to be some of the most morally bankrupt politics I've seen.
First came to my attention when it was on Fox news. Another part of the problem is that it will be wiped from his slate in about a year cause he turns 18. And he's already done it again, this time raping a 12 year old. He has a record as a serial rapist and they're not only letting him walk free, but expunging it from his record as if he never did it.
I have a problem with that, and the rest of California, as diverse as our population is, has a problem with that. And in 2006, we will fix the problem.

I wonder if Ms. Molina will have the same view when she's the victim. Unconscious consent? What the hell is wrong with that woman? Everywhere else in the civilized world, that's called rape.
What I'm trying to find out from my sources is if the rapist is like her nephew, child of one her friends or something. One thing I already know is that she ain't fit to serve in the legislature. But we will have to take on the powerful interests that are propping her up.

It's more than stupid, it's shameful! This guy is getting away with rape, while his victim suffers the consequences of his actions.
The saddest part is they're saying it was her fault for being asleep. That's a peice of logic I just have difficulty with. Cause what they are saying is that if my sister is asleep, its perfectly ok for some guy off the sleep to break into the house, and rape her. Its boggling how people can make those kinds decisions to justify atrocious crimes.

Stupid to have the loophole in the first place. Shameful to refuse to close it.
don't worry, we will close it. We'll just steamroll over whoever gets in the way of its being closed.

I don't think California, or even the US, has a monopoly on insane sexual offence laws. Australia has an example at the complete opposite end of the scale.

The state of Victoria recently introduced a zero tolerance policy regarding people with prior sexual offence convictions working with children. This resulted in a middle age teacher, with an outstanding teaching record, to be sacked because, some 30-odd years ago, when he was 18, he had a girlfriend who was almost 16 and he made the mistake of kissing her and fondling her breast - with her consent!

Sexual contact with someone under 16 who is more than two years younger than yourself is an offence in Australia, even with consent. The girl's parents complained to the police and though he was studying for his teaching degree, he pleaded guilty - simpler than going to court and the law at the time wouldn't have prevented him from teaching.

Slightly ridiculous that he's lost his job now if you ask me!

The story probably hasn't gotten more "play" in the national media because you might not be getting all the facts. News agencies aren't known for showing all sides of the story.
The legislators involved, including Mrs. Molina, have refused to talk to the press. They are hiding the fact that they did something horrible. They know what they did was wrong.

You know, I think its a universal Human charachteristic then. Its something everyone can talk about endlessly with mutual satisfaction; maybe weather has the power to unite us all in peace!
I'm from Minnesota where weather is probably the #1 topic among the people followed closely by the Vikings.

Here in Phoenix, it's a different story. There just isn't much to talk about. During the harsh part of the year, it's pretty much hot day after day. They're also really bad at predicting weather on TV here. Typical forcast: "it might rain today, ...or maybe tomorrow"

Hehsfakhajhaeheh. This is why people think we suck, when we're actually much better than people in other states. Well...people from Sillicon Valley anyway. I hate Southern California...



That isn't very nice.
NorCal rules. SoCal is the shallow end of the pool.

And pfft to those who think California is the most screwed state, Governator not withstanding. Give back all the money that we put in. Entertain yourselves. Stop moving here. Let us go-and try to maintain without us. Good luck with that.

That law sucks-but as with just about anything these days I'm not taking my first impression. I suspect that there is way more to this story than whats here. Before the chest thumping starts, no-I do not believe that being asleep is any kind of 'consent.'

The biggest problem here in California (specificlly the north part, since I won't go to the south part on a bet most of the time) isn't Californians, it's people moving into California and promptly putting a stick up thier ass about things. Once you've been here awhile you learn to relax.

And remember, being soooo large we are a little more complex than your little podunk(sp) states. On the same ballot we abolished Affirmative Action and legalized medical marijuana. Sort that one out.

Prove that manmade global warming exists.

You can't. The problem is that you can't prove that man isn't accelerating the already existing cooling/warming phases of the earth, either.

Interesting fact: after the global cooling that took place near the Middle Ages, wine production in England ceases for several hundred years (we know this because of record obsessed English monks.) Now vineyards are popping back up again in Southern England. So warming IS happening, but whether it's normal (probably) or the advent of a manmade apocalypse (slightly less likely IMO) remains to be seen.

Regardless, I'm glad I live inland.

Prove that manmade global warming exists.
Ah for the love of Jeff...

Since we're on the topic of California anyway-

Go to LA. Look up. Take a deep breath. Tell me that it's the trees doing that.

Regardless of whether or not you think that we're accelerating the ice cap melting it's pretty fucking clear we're having an effect on the enviroment. The sunsets aren't worth it.

ok, read the case, I vaguely remember it now...

the Crime Lab, like all County government offices in Kern County has been hit by budget cuts for 5 years in a row. I work for the County, and even though the bulk of the budget for my County department is Federal funds, we still haven't hired any staff in nearly 3 years... other departments have suffered as bad or worse. This is because up until 2003, the previous Republican governor and the Democratic legislature were routinely keeping the sales tax money that the state government is supposed to refund to the county governments. Since 2004, it has happened again, although this time is was supposed to be a one time deal.... Governor Arnold promised.

We will see.

It doesn't sound like its being swept under the rug. Jagels, who you can read about in Rolling Stone Magazine (I want to say about three months ago) is extremely zealous about proscuting rape or sexual assault cases involving children.

To the extent that this is the same DA who conducted the sensational witch hunt back in the late 1980s where adult day care providers were alleged to be conducting ritual sexual assaults on the children in their care.

Most of these cases were eventually overturned, in some cases just recently (one poor bastard did 14 years until the children, now adults, recanted and said their testimony was coerced.)

So there is no conspiracy here to sweep it under the rug, if anything, Jagels would probably love to win a case like this to redeem himself, and take the voters mind of the fact that this year he dumped his wife and took sole custody of the children after she was arrested for possession of painkillers and writing false prescriptions .... after going on TV and promising to stand with her the entire way.

KMC (the hospital cited) is the County Hospital, and this community is rather underserved as far as hospitals go, so if you need services like this (a rape kit), that is literally the only place to go.

Its too bad the parents didn't just contact Alliance for Family Violence, or the Rape Crisis Hotline, both of which would have given them correct information. But of course, most people aren't thinking clearly in a situation like this.

Incidently, this county vigorously proscutes statutory rape and indecency to a child cases, you can find billboards everywhere in Bakersfield (the principal city in the county) warning about the consequences and giving the phone number for the Rape Crisis center.

Its just a damn tragedy, as bad as it is, its not as bad as the 6 year old girl who got shot tonight (luckily only minor injuries) here in town, or the 4 teenaged boys run over yesterday on purpose by a 20 year old man (one 12 year old boy, a friend of my 12 year old daughters, was killed).

I really miss Houston's thunderstorms though.... it sucks getting only 10 inches of rain a year (in a wet year)...we get 105 degree temperatures and 10% humidity...
Try living in Corpus Christi.... with 105 degree days...and 98% humidity. *ugh*

NorCal rules. SoCal is the shallow end of the pool.

And pfft to those who think California is the most screwed state, Governator not withstanding. Give back all the money that we put in. Entertain yourselves. Stop moving here. Let us go-and try to maintain without us. Good luck with that.

That law sucks-but as with just about anything these days I'm not taking my first impression. I suspect that there is way more to this story than whats here. Before the chest thumping starts, no-I do not believe that being asleep is any kind of 'consent.'

The biggest problem here in California (specificlly the north part, since I won't go to the south part on a bet most of the time) isn't Californians, it's people moving into California and promptly putting a stick up thier ass about things. Once you've been here awhile you learn to relax.

And remember, being soooo large we are a little more complex than your little podunk(sp) states. On the same ballot we abolished Affirmative Action and legalized medical marijuana. Sort that one out.

That's because there are other people working on the problems so you don't have to.

Here, the weather's gone insane. It was 26C yesterday, which means we're gettin' summer tempratures in late autumn. But the mornings are still quite cool.

ok, read the case, I vaguely remember it now...

the Crime Lab, like all County government offices in Kern County has been hit by budget cuts for 5 years in a row. I work for the County, and even though the bulk of the budget for my County department is Federal funds, we still haven't hired any staff in nearly 3 years... other departments have suffered as bad or worse. This is because up until 2003, the previous Republican governor and the Democratic legislature were routinely keeping the sales tax money that the state government is supposed to refund to the county governments. Since 2004, it has happened again, although this time is was supposed to be a one time deal.... Governor Arnold promised.

We will see.

It doesn't sound like its being swept under the rug. Jagels, who you can read about in Rolling Stone Magazine (I want to say about three months ago) is extremely zealous about proscuting rape or sexual assault cases involving children.

To the extent that this is the same DA who conducted the sensational witch hunt back in the late 1980s where adult day care providers were alleged to be conducting ritual sexual assaults on the children in their care.

Most of these cases were eventually overturned, in some cases just recently (one poor bastard did 14 years until the children, now adults, recanted and said their testimony was coerced.)

So there is no conspiracy here to sweep it under the rug, if anything, Jagels would probably love to win a case like this to redeem himself, and take the voters mind of the fact that this year he dumped his wife and took sole custody of the children after she was arrested for possession of painkillers and writing false prescriptions .... after going on TV and promising to stand with her the entire way.

KMC (the hospital cited) is the County Hospital, and this community is rather underserved as far as hospitals go, so if you need services like this (a rape kit), that is literally the only place to go.

Its too bad the parents didn't just contact Alliance for Family Violence, or the Rape Crisis Hotline, both of which would have given them correct information. But of course, most people aren't thinking clearly in a situation like this.

Incidently, this county vigorously proscutes statutory rape and indecency to a child cases, you can find billboards everywhere in Bakersfield (the principal city in the county) warning about the consequences and giving the phone number for the Rape Crisis center.

Its just a damn tragedy, as bad as it is, its not as bad as the 6 year old girl who got shot tonight (luckily only minor injuries) here in town, or the 4 teenaged boys run over yesterday on purpose by a 20 year old man (one 12 year old boy, a friend of my 12 year old daughters, was killed).

But even Mr. Jagels is limited by the loophole which the state refuses to close. I don't see much that he can do until the law is fixed.

That's because there are other people working on the problems so you don't have to.
I'm guessing you're talking about the 'relax' part. Which end would that put you on? It's the other people working on the 'problems' that is the problem.

...because, somehow, Prop 21 didn't include rape when the person was unconscious. Not sure I understand that, since I read the Proposition, which referred to section 261, which does mention rape when someone is unconscious, but there are probably some juvenile laws that I am not aware of that may supersede that section.
I would have to agree with you. Having sex with someone who is unconcious IS rape, that is in the definition acording to Penal Code 261.

Prop 21 says:
(12) Rape, as defined in Section 261.
http://primary2000.ss.ca.gov/VoterGuide/Propositions/21text.htm

Penal Code 261 clearly says:
(3) Where a person is prevented from resisting by any intoxicating
or anesthetic substance, or any controlled substance, and this
condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the
accused.
(4) Where a person is at the time unconscious of the nature of the
act, and this is known to the accused. As used in this paragraph,
"unconscious of the nature of the act" means incapable of resisting
because the victim meets one of the following conditions:
(A) Was unconscious or asleep.
(B) Was not aware, knowing, perceiving, or cognizant that the act
occurred.
(C) Was not aware, knowing, perceiving, or cognizant of the
essential characteristics of the act due to the perpetrator's fraud
in fact.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/261-269.html

So what happened to the rapists?

Just looked up the execution rate in CA (only thru 2002). Since 1963, there have been only 11 executions, many years with no executions, only two with more than one (2 in 96 and 99). So you may be putting them on death row, but they're not going anywhere fast.



Of course they dont go anywhere fast because you are taking away something considered the most basic and guaranteed fundamental right, life. When that happens their has to be the highest level of scrutiny possible which means they have several avenues for appeals which takes time. I should truly hope it takes awhile for someone to be executed to ensure that their life is upheld to the highest level of scrutiny.


As for California being the nuttiest state we do produce about 99% of the nations almond snd pistachios. Were a really big ag state full of fruits and nuts.

I would have to agree with you. I would like to know what this loophole actually is. I don't believe that rape is not rape if the victim is unconcious, that is practically in the definition.

Prop 21 says:
(12) Rape, as defined in Section 261.
http://primary2000.ss.ca.gov/VoterGuide/Propositions/21text.htm

Penal Code 261 clearly says:
(3) Where a person is prevented from resisting by any intoxicating
or anesthetic substance, or any controlled substance, and this
condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the
accused.
(4) Where a person is at the time unconscious of the nature of the
act, and this is known to the accused. As used in this paragraph,
"unconscious of the nature of the act" means incapable of resisting
because the victim meets one of the following conditions:
(A) Was unconscious or asleep.
(B) Was not aware, knowing, perceiving, or cognizant that the act
occurred.
(C) Was not aware, knowing, perceiving, or cognizant of the
essential characteristics of the act due to the perpetrator's fraud
in fact.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/261-269.html

So what happened to the rapists?


Knowing that unconciousness is part of the definition in prop 21 by section A of penal code 261 this means that theres no loophole but that the defense attorney was better than the District Attorney. What should have happened is the DA sited that section in prop 21 and use it to ensure maximum sentence. No loophole just a better defense...a shame our tax dollars go to DA's who prosecute under a law and dont know it very well.

I would have to agree with you. Having sex with someone who is unconcious IS rape, that is in the definition acording to Penal Code 261.

Prop 21 says:
(12) Rape, as defined in Section 261.
http://primary2000.ss.ca.gov/VoterGuide/Propositions/21text.htm

Penal Code 261 clearly says:
(3) Where a person is prevented from resisting by any intoxicating
or anesthetic substance, or any controlled substance, and this
condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the
accused.
(4) Where a person is at the time unconscious of the nature of the
act, and this is known to the accused. As used in this paragraph,
"unconscious of the nature of the act" means incapable of resisting
because the victim meets one of the following conditions:
(A) Was unconscious or asleep.
(B) Was not aware, knowing, perceiving, or cognizant that the act
occurred.
(C) Was not aware, knowing, perceiving, or cognizant of the
essential characteristics of the act due to the perpetrator's fraud
in fact.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/261-269.html

So what happened to the rapists?

Simple, we have a liberal legislature that is allowing them walk free in the name of protecting their rights which are given precedence over the rights of their victims and over the will of the people of California.

Knowing that unconciousness is part of the definition in prop 21 by section A of penal code 261 this means that theres no loophole but that the defense attorney was better than the District Attorney. What should have happened is the DA sited that section in prop 21 and use it to ensure maximum sentence. No loophole just a better defense...a shame our tax dollars go to DA's who prosecute under a law and dont know it very well.
What happened was clearly a travesty of justice. They could easily order a mistrial in this case. And it would have to go back. Actually due to the nature of this information, they could appeal the judges decision and get it overturned due to mitigating circumstances. Its just a matter of them having money to do so. But if people wanted to help them, it wouldn't be a problem.
Of course this does not excuse the legislators involved.

Simple, we have a liberal legislature that is allowing them walk free in the name of protecting their rights which are given precedence over the rights of their victims and over the will of the people of California.

I have to disagree with you there... it isn't the legislature, as the penal code is very clear on this.

the problem is that the evidence isn't there to go to trial and won't be until its processed and even then its going to be weak because of the time delay in this specific case... which is too bad, but I don't see how that is really anybody's fault. Kern County is probably one of the most conservative counties in California, it reminds me a LOT of Pasadena and northern Galveston County, where I went to school (Junior College) and grew up (northern Galveston County)... in other words Texas, the same congressional district that routinely elects Tom Delay.

Our congressman is Bill Thomas, another conservative (a moderate one compared to DeLay, but pretty conservative for anywhere else)

If it makes it to trial, a jury in this county will likely convict, and it will likely stand up in appeal... if handled right. It doesn't sound like there is enough to take it that far right now though.

In this county, OJ, Robert Blake and Michael Jackson would already be on their way to jail or death row (depending).... now CA doesn't execute very often, but it does eventually (it takes about a decade on average, as compared to about 5 years in Texas).

There was a recent poll about which state was the nuttiest. California and Texas were neck-and-neck, while Florida was not far behind.

I submit California has now gone over the edge.

The state's rape statutes used to treat minors that committed rape with kid gloves, giving little more than a slap on the wrist - mandated therapy, maybe some juvenile hall, probation, etc. And then their record would be wiped clean when they turned 18.

Proposition 21 was passed not too long ago to close that loophole, allowing for aggressive prosecution in such cases. However, that statute itself had a loophole, exploited by the defense in a recent rape case.

A 14-year old girl foolishly got in the car with a group of boys, drank a Dr. Pepper, was later given some hard liquor, and later started waking up in great pain, realizing she had been raped. However, her rapist was not given any kind of stiff sentence (his record will be clean at 18), because, somehow, Prop 21 didn't include rape when the person was unconscious. Not sure I understand that, since I read the Proposition, which referred to section 261, which does mention rape when someone is unconscious, but there are probably some juvenile laws that I am not aware of that may supersede that section.

Links:
KGET Rape Story Part 1 (http://www.kget.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=40277FD2-C093-4D83-A4EC-91574687C9DF) KGET Rape Story Part 2 (http://www.kget.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=A68AF305-86E7-4B93-8873-B3A85AC9AEAB)

To add insult to injury, when she went before a committee to ask them to close the loophole, it was voted down, probably because it was proposed by a Republican. See the mother of the rape victim's blog:

Mother of Rape Victim Blog (http://journals.aol.com/victoria60/TheRapeofmy14yearolddaughter)

So, California, in the interest of protecting poor little innocent rapists, and keeping Republicans in line, has decided to allow a rapist to get suspended sentence, pay his victim $10 a month for a year, and, at 18, his record will be clean.

Um.

First, your sources do not even vaguely support your assertions.

The two news stories are the victims mother complaining -- prior to any prosecution of the case -- about delays in DNA testing, the inconveniences of rape kits, etc.

Neither has anything in them about the facts you allege regarding the law or the outcome of this case. (The only thing they really establish was that this mother had an outraged attitude about everyone and everything from day one. Partially understandable, but she was denouncing the police and the prosecutors before the case even started).

I looked around for a while on the blog. Other than the mother making it perfectly clear that she is a highly partisan conservative Republican it contains little facts.

Second, your description of the state's pre-Prop. 21 laws is inaccurate.

Third, THIS IS WHY PROPOSITIONS ARE A BAD WAY TO LEGISLATE. When amateur "get tough on crime" idiots try to legislate via propositions, you get badly written laws that do not mesh well with other statutes. In fact, Prop. 21 repealed a more comprehensive bill that sought to achieve many of the same results in a more measured fashion.

Fourth, I smell a rat on the alleged facts and solution here. As a result of Prop. 21, California has one of the most draconian laws regarding juvenile crime. If you actually read SB 520 -- the bill being pushed as the solution -- the primary thing it does is drop the age for being tried as an adult for a wide range of crimes (including theft) from 16 to 14. But the alleged perpetrator is said to be 17. :confused:

It sounds like what happened in the case was unjust -- although there appears to be little hard information about it on the web. But it is utterly unclear what sentence exactly the perpetrator received or -- more importantly -- why.

Fifth, your petty conclusion that California has deliberately let rapists go free to spite Republicans should be beneath you.

I have to disagree with you there... it isn't the legislature, as the penal code is very clear on this.

the problem is that the evidence isn't there to go to trial and won't be until its processed and even then its going to be weak because of the time delay in this specific case... which is too bad, but I don't see how that is really anybody's fault. Kern County is probably one of the most conservative counties in California, it reminds me a LOT of Pasadena and northern Galveston County, where I went to school (Junior College) and grew up (northern Galveston County)... in other words Texas, the same congressional district that routinely elects Tom Delay.

Our congressman is Bill Thomas, another conservative (a moderate one compared to DeLay, but pretty conservative for anywhere else)

If it makes it to trial, a jury in this county will likely convict, and it will likely stand up in appeal... if handled right. It doesn't sound like there is enough to take it that far right now though.

In this county, OJ, Robert Blake and Michael Jackson would already be on their way to jail or death row (depending).... now CA doesn't execute very often, but it does eventually (it takes about a decade on average, as compared to about 5 years in Texas).
check your tgs.

I live in California, and I love my state, but I am ashamed of Cali nonetheless. To the rest of the country: I'm so sorry about my state. Really, I am.

Simple, we have a liberal legislature that is allowing them walk free in the name of protecting their rights which are given precedence over the rights of their victims and over the will of the people of California.

Excuse me?

Tiffany Land cited the statute. It is on the books. No liberal legislature created a special loophole here.

Your righteous anger might not sound so shrill if you made sense.

Um.

First, your sources do not even vaguely support your assertions.

The two news stories are the victims mother complaining -- prior to any prosecution of the case -- about delays in DNA testing, the inconveniences of rape kits, etc.

Neither has anything in them about the facts you allege regarding the law or the outcome of this case. (The only thing they really establish was that this mother had an outraged attitude about everyone and everything from day one. Partially understandable, but she was denouncing the police and the prosecutors before the case even started).

I looked around for a while on the blog. Other than the mother making it perfectly clear that she is a highly partisan conservative Republican it contains little facts.

Second, your description of the state's pre-Prop. 21 laws is inaccurate.

Third, THIS IS WHY PROPOSITIONS ARE A BAD WAY TO LEGISLATE. When amateur "get tough on crime" idiots try to legislate via propositions, you get badly written laws that do not mesh well with other statutes. In fact, Prop. 21 repealed a more comprehensive bill that sought to achieve many of the same results in a more measured fashion.

Fourth, I smell a rat on the alleged facts and solution here. As a result of Prop. 21, California has one of the most draconian laws regarding juvenile crime. If you actually read SB 520 -- the bill being pushed as the solution -- the primary thing it does is drop the age for being tried as an adult for a wide range of crimes (including theft) from 16 to 14. But the alleged perpetrator is said to be 17. :confused:

It sounds like what happened in the case was unjust -- although there appears to be little hard information about it on the web. But it is utterly unclear what sentence exactly the perpetrator received or -- more importantly -- why.

Fifth, your petty conclusion that California has deliberately let rapists go free to spite Republicans should be beneath you.

he he, I agree with you on propositions. Any moron can put up a proposition and get it passed but it takes an intelligent questioning person to actually make a law.
I wasn't aware of the political affiliation of the mother as I had considered it to be irrelevant to the case.

What happened was clearly a travesty of justice. They could easily order a mistrial in this case. And it would have to go back. Actually due to the nature of this information, they could appeal the judges decision and get it overturned due to mitigating circumstances. Its just a matter of them having money to do so. But if people wanted to help them, it wouldn't be a problem.
Of course this does not excuse the legislators involved.

Spoken like someone who has no idea what a mistrial or mitigating circumstances are or what double jeopardy means.

You can't just declare a "mulligan" because you do not like a cases outcome.

If the judge misapplied the law, the sentence could be appealed.

Of course, you appear to be arguing at the same time that (due to a pro-rapist Democrat conspiracy) the statutes required what you also argue was contrary to the statute. Care to pick which?

That you sprinkle incorrectly used legal jargon among highly unlikely facts leads me to conclude that none of what you are reporting here is reliable.

Excuse me?

Tiffany Land cited the statute. It is on the books. No liberal legislature created a special loophole here.

Your righteous anger might not sound so shrill if you made sense.
I wasn't talking about the statute, I was talking about the policy of the democrats in the state legislative house to do everything they can to see that criminals get more rights than their victims.
And you are right, I didn't see a loophole there except for the one fabricated the liberals I am referring to.
I am sure you would agree if the loophole does not exist in legal fact, that if the state legislators are referring to said loophole, then said loophole is a liberal fabrication.
If you understand what I just said of course. ;)

Spoken like someone who has no idea what a mistrial or mitigating circumstances are or what double jeopardy means.

You can't just declare a "mulligan" because you do not like a cases outcome.

If the judge misapplied the law, the sentence could be appealed.

Of course, you appear to be arguing at the same time that (due to a pro-rapist Democrat conspiracy) the statutes required what you also argue was contrary to the statute. Care to pick which?

That you sprinkle incorrectly used legal jargon among highly unlikely facts leads me to conclude that none of what you are reporting here is reliable.
Its hardly double jeopardy if it hasn't been tried yet now is it?
As posted earlier, I hold that the "loophole" as cited by Gloria Molina, a democrat, is a democrat fabrication. How else do you explain that she would refer to it in blaming the victim.

I wasn't talking about the statute, I was talking about the policy of the democrats in the state legislative house to do everything they can to see that criminals get more rights than their victims.
And you are right, I didn't see a loophole there except for the one fabricated the liberals I am referring to.
I am sure you would agree if the loophole does not exist in legal fact, that if the state legislators are referring to said loophole, then said loophole is a liberal fabrication.
If you understand what I just said of course. ;)

But the premise of the story that has you so worked up and the premise of the bill you say you support is that there is a loophole that requires a remedy by statute.

If there is no loophole, the Democrats are right in opposing a bill designed to "fix" the nonexistent loophole.

Liberals sitting around the legislature cannot create a loophole simply by talking about it. Either there is a loophole -- which you should be able to identify -- in the statutes or there is not. If there isn't, no change in law is required.

Right?

But the premise of the story that has you so worked up and the premise of the bill you say you support is that there is a loophole that requires a remedy by statute.

If there is no loophole, the Democrats are right in opposing a bill designed to "fix" the nonexistent loophole.

Liberals sitting around the legislature cannot create a loophole simply by talking about it. Either there is a loophole -- which you should be able to identify -- in the statutes or there is not. If there isn't, no change in law is required.

Right?In theory you are right, but career politicians can always find loopholes. I would agree that in light of the statute as presented in this thread that it is not the law that needs changing, but the people sitting in the legislature.
You have a tg btw.

This discussion makes me wish my computer didn't kick me off line when I tried the links. I didn't get around to trying again until just now, but after I read the first one it kicked me offline again.
I'm not sure how much your assertions about unconscious consent have to do with anything, since all I saw was a bit about the trouble getting a rape kit and the amount of time it took to get the DNA tested.
Sounds like underfunding's the problem here.

In theory you are right, but career politicians can always find loopholes. I would agree that in light of the statute as presented in this thread that it is not the law that needs changing, but the people sitting in the legislature.
You have a tg btw.

Think that through again.

How did a rapist "get off light" due to the opinions about some legislators about an alleged loophole that does not exist?

I think that the reference to section 261 in Prop. 21 may be strictly in the gang activity portion of the law -- so there may be a loophole after all. BUT NOT ONE CREATED BY THE LEGISLATURE!

Either way, you appear to not know what you are so outraged about. Perhaps you should stop throwing mud at Democrats and liberals until you figure out why you are throwing it.

Its hardly double jeopardy if it hasn't been tried yet now is it?
As posted earlier, I hold that the "loophole" as cited by Gloria Molina, a democrat, is a democrat fabrication. How else do you explain that she would refer to it in blaming the victim.

It is cannot be a mistrial if it is not currently being tried. :rolleyes:

And there is complete confusion in your and Selgin's allegedly knowledgeable posts about this case.

The news stories Selgin posted were about the case before the prosecution had begun. It does not appear the perpetrator had been charged yet.

Selgin -- and your -- alleged outrage is about the outcome of the case -- that the perpetrator did not get a severe enough sentence.

What actually appears to have occurred is that the perpetrator received a deferred judgment. The perpetrator pled guilty. He has been granted a period of supervised probation in lieu of sentence. At the end of that period, he may still receive a sentence or may have the charges dropped. (I'm no expert in juvenile justice, but that is what I can infer from my knowledge and from the scant "facts" we are given.)

Under the existing statute and Prop. 21 it appears that a perpetrator over 16 that commits "forcible rape" is ineligible for deferred judgment. Instead they must be treated as an adult. The proposed SB 520 takes a tank-rather-than-flyswatter approach of moving defendants over 14 completely out of juvenile court for a long list of crimes including forcible rape. A seperate provision would ban deferred judgment for any one committing sexual assault. (I may be in error in my quick reading of the statute, but that is what it seems to do).

Regardless, despite your earlier posts that implied detailed knowledge of the ase, you appear not to know whether the case has gone to court or whether or not there was a loophole that created an injustice for you to be enraged about.

Think that through again.

How did a rapist "get off light" due to the opinions about some legislators about an alleged loophole that does not exist?

I think that the reference to section 261 in Prop. 21 may be strictly in the gang activity portion of the law -- so there may be a loophole after all. BUT NOT ONE CREATED BY THE LEGISLATURE!

Either way, you appear to not know what you are so outraged about. Perhaps you should stop throwing mud at Democrats and liberals until you figure out why you are throwing it.
If the legislature is trying to prevent the closing of the loophole, then the legislature is responsible for it being there. Otherwise they would not resist its being closed.

This discussion makes me wish my computer didn't kick me off line when I tried the links. I didn't get around to trying again until just now, but after I read the first one it kicked me offline again.
I'm not sure how much your assertions about unconscious consent have to do with anything, since all I saw was a bit about the trouble getting a rape kit and the amount of time it took to get the DNA tested.
Sounds like underfunding's the problem here.
Sounds like your right in light of the fact the governor is proposing more cuts to the juvenile justice system.

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,207~12026~2862944,00.html

If the legislature is trying to prevent the closing of the loophole, then the legislature is responsible for it being there. Otherwise they would not resist its being closed.

:headbang:

Read that back to yourself a few times and see if it still makes sense to you.

Hopefully, you or Selgin can get back to us when you have either figured out what the alleged injustice in this case was, whether or not there is a loophole, etc.

Or you could simply apologize for a knee-jerk smearing of California, Democrats, and liberals without a clue of what you were talking about.

http://www.bakersfieldonline.us/news/read/2/29665

:headbang:

Read that back to yourself a few times and see if it still makes sense to you.

Hopefully, you or Selgin can get back to us when you have either figured out what the alleged injustice in this case was, whether or not there is a loophole, etc.

Or you could simply apologize for a knee-jerk smearing of California, Democrats, and liberals without a clue of what you were talking about.
smearing of democrats and liberals? That's what they support is letting criminals go free.

Sounds like your right in light of the fact the governor is proposing more cuts to the juvenile justice system.

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,207~12026~2862944,00.htmlI'm afraid I agree with the dems. And I an opponent of mandatory minimums. Especially when it comes to drug offenses. I think about 90% of the drug laws are crap.

http://www.bakersfieldonline.us/news/read/2/29665
I stand by my position.

BTW, the article mentions her talking to Hannity and Colmes trying to get support for SB520. The only info I can find on the bill is concerning housing and people with disabilities.
Can someone help with this?

BTW, the article mentions her talking to Hannity and Colmes trying to get support for SB520. The only info I can find on the bill is concerning housing and people with disabilities.
Can someone help with this?
http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/billview.html?bill=sb_520

the law as it is being proposed, needs to be amended. We don't need to be giving people life sentences just because they stole a candy bar when they were 13.
The life sentences and other strict provisions of SB520 need to be reserved for the violent criminals and sexual offenders.

Thanks.
Some parts of the bill have merit, but I would oppose it as it stands.

I've read what the victim and other experts had to say. It is clear that the victim seems to be suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, resulting the attack on her.


First off, it is a travesty and proves that our justice system is a failure when a crime, committed on July 19, 2003 has not been treated appropriately, by May 11, 2005 almost two years later. In America there is a right to quick and speedy justice. Being made to pay $10 a month is not justice. Its not even punishment. All it does is say rape will cost you a couple dollars a month out of your pocket cause we don't really value human life.
In accordance with current statute, the judge erred by giving the sex offender DEJ. The law clearly states that repeate offenders are not eligible for it. This guy raped again and admitted to it. But he was still given DEJ. Further, it is clear that nothing happened to the offender. He was let loose to rape again and brag about it. And it is clear that he was bragging about it. The state has clearly made no effort to rehabilitate him, nor is he being made to pay restitution. $10 a month is not restitution, $10 a month is the cheapening of innocent human life.
The fact that the girl and her friend were allowed to go to the movies unescorted at the age of 14 is irrelevant to the case. Girls that age often go to the mall and to the movies unescorted. That is not a license to go and rape them.
The California Youth Authority has an atrocious record when it comes to rehabilitation. The worse in the nation in fact. Even worse is CYA's record on human rights. Inmates are frequently abused for the entertainment of CYA staff. I doubt anything has changed since US News and World Report made its in depth report on the situation over a year ago revealing the depth of the situation.
At the same time, the juvenile justice system is not being adequately funded. The reason for government's existence is to provide for the safety of its people. The government IS NOT obligated to pay benefits to illegal aliens who come here and then commit horrible crimes. But the government is obligated to fully fund the justice system.

This ought not be about the Democrats against the Republicans and the Dems ought not be opposing this bill just because its written and sponsored by a Republican. By doing so the Democrats are being irresponsible, divisive and harmful to the victims of violent crime.
The bill itself is too strict.
What we really need is a bill that would:
1. Restore full funding to the juvenile justice system.
2. Allow for and fund attempts at rehabilitation.
3. Provide that if you committ a series of rapes, you are required to register as sex offender for the rest of your life, even if you committed the rapes when you were 13.
4. Provide for life sentences for all violent criminals regardless of how old they are.
5. Total reform of the CYA.

Now they will say there is no money or that we have to pull yet more money from local communities to pay for it. I have a better idea. How bout we cancel all the special interest pet projects that are benig paid for with taxpayer funds and instead use that money to fund the juvenile justice system. If Gloria Molina's neighbor wants a big ass swimming pool in his backyard, I see no reason why he should not pay for it himself.

^ Overall I agree with this. Because of the hour, I refrain from nit-picking.

I'm from Clovis, next to Fresno. It is pretty sane there, boring, but sane.

Florida has more nutjobs than California.

Florida has more nutjobs than California.

But we both have a Disney park, imagine that. . .maybe there is some kind of connection.

Actually what happened is that democrats declared that if you are sleeping when someone has sex with you, its not rape, its "uconscious consent". I've been watching this and will continue to watch it. There needs to be some changes. One of the things we are going to do is change the definition of the situation back to rape. That's what it is pure and simple. Those who condone such behavior belong in prison along with the rapists.
When I was being raised, I was taught that if you had sex with someone who was asleep or under the influence, it was rape, no ifs, ands or buts about it. But Gloria Molina, the legislator who invented the term "unconscious consent" has been in office for way too long (over 20 years).
What really gets me is that its not one legislator but a huge chunk of them. The California democratic party has really crossed a line here and its going to hurt them in next years elections cause a lot of us, including myself, are going to demand accountability and I for one will keep shoving this in their faces until we get accountability.
Anyone who voted that this was "unconscious consent" is clearly unfit to be in any elective office in California or anywhere else in the US.
Mrs. Molina is one of the most powerful politicians in California, but she has overstretched herself, and contrary to what she has told reporters, she does owe the rape victim an apology and there is a problem with the policy she and her colleagues set forth on the matter.
When I am the next Senator from California, no lame excuses for any crimes will be tolerated.

Proof?

But we both have a Disney park, imagine that. . .maybe there is some kind of connection.
I think it's the climate.

I think it's the climate.

You think Mickey controls that too? :p ;)

Disney moves in mysterious ways. :D

You think Mickey controls that too? :p ;)

Disney moves in mysterious ways. :D

I've noticed that both Florida and California lead the nation in "feel good" legislation.

California passes a lot of idiot laws intended to control guns (with no discernable effect other than to cause gun manufacturers to cut off the supply of high end weapons to California law enforcement).

Florida passes idiot laws to keep a human turnip alive.

And when I want to read a bizarre crime story, I can read about Scott Peterson or the Menendez brothers in California, or I can read about a grandmother in Florida who shot her neighbor's chihuahua with a 12 gauge shotgun because she found the dog annoying.

On topic: Geez, I hope they eventually get that loophole fixed.

Off topic: Here in Portland (OR) we're pretty lucky, climate-wise. Sure we get a lot of rainy days in a normal Winter, but that helps to keep it green the rest of the year. And, contrary to popular belief, it does not rain all year here. The summers here are drier than most places east of the rockies.... we don't get many thunderstorms (which I personally regret, but some people don't like t-storms). We can't get hurricanes, tornadoes are exceptionally rare and exceptionally weak, our thunderstorms are usually weak, if temperatures reach 100 the humidity is always low, it rarely snows (probably once a year on average, which once again, I regret, but some people don't like snow), and it rarely falls below 25 degrees.

All in all, we have some of the most mild (least exciting, if you want to put it that way) weather in the country, while still maintaining distinct seasons.



But then, I'm obsessed with weather, and I know most people aren't, so I'll stop my rambling now. ;)

Portland is the most amazing place in the world. I get to go back there in 3 weeks!

I recently heard California referred to as "The land of fruits and nuts".

Proof?
And let you pass the info on to my political opponents? Don't make me laugh.

Completely off the original topic but anyway...

Here, the weather's gone insane. It was 26C yesterday, which means we're gettin' summer tempratures in late autumn. But the mornings are still quite cool.

Thanks for that, Yammo. Melbourne is unseasonably warm and dry too, so I'd already decided that the Victorian ski fields weren't going to be a goer this year. Now I know to steer clear of Perisher too. New Zealand here I come!

And let you pass the info on to my political opponents? Don't make me laugh.

just a wild guess, you are from Orange County aren't you?

There was a recent poll about which state was the nuttiest. California and Texas were neck-and-neck, while Florida was not far behind.

I submit California has now gone over the edge.

The state's rape statutes used to treat minors that committed rape with kid gloves, giving little more than a slap on the wrist - mandated therapy, maybe some juvenile hall, probation, etc. And then their record would be wiped clean when they turned 18.

Proposition 21 was passed not too long ago to close that loophole, allowing for aggressive prosecution in such cases. However, that statute itself had a loophole, exploited by the defense in a recent rape case.

A 14-year old girl foolishly got in the car with a group of boys, drank a Dr. Pepper, was later given some hard liquor, and later started waking up in great pain, realizing she had been raped. However, her rapist was not given any kind of stiff sentence (his record will be clean at 18), because, somehow, Prop 21 didn't include rape when the person was unconscious. Not sure I understand that, since I read the Proposition, which referred to section 261, which does mention rape when someone is unconscious, but there are probably some juvenile laws that I am not aware of that may supersede that section.

Links:
KGET Rape Story Part 1 (http://www.kget.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=40277FD2-C093-4D83-A4EC-91574687C9DF) KGET Rape Story Part 2 (http://www.kget.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=A68AF305-86E7-4B93-8873-B3A85AC9AEAB)

To add insult to injury, when she went before a committee to ask them to close the loophole, it was voted down, probably because it was proposed by a Republican. See the mother of the rape victim's blog:

Mother of Rape Victim Blog (http://journals.aol.com/victoria60/TheRapeofmy14yearolddaughter)

So, California, in the interest of protecting poor little innocent rapists, and keeping Republicans in line, has decided to allow a rapist to get suspended sentence, pay his victim $10 a month for a year, and, at 18, his record will be clean.


As a northern Cali resident, and a self described leftist/liberal, I have to agree with you, if there is one thing in this world that people should feel the full extent of the law for, it's rape and child molestation. I tolerate a whole lot of stuff, from narcotics use to rapant homelessness, but this I cannot tolerate.

Anyone who harms a child or sexually assaults an innocent deserves to die, and painfully.

just a wild guess, you are from Orange County aren't you?
I'm from a traditionally republican community in southern california.