NationStates Jolt Archive

Quite simply, are you more loyal to the Pope as head of your religion and God's chosen representative on earth or are you more loyal to your head of state, whoever that might be?

I should think that it would be apparent that as a Catholic, my loyalty of necessity would be to Christ and his teachings first.

As for spiritual vs. secular heads of states: the spiritual world and the secular world are separate; Christ himself said, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."

I can think of no situation where one would be at odds with the other in my life.

Dubya! Don't know enough about the Pope yet. Sure, I know his previous history, but he has yet to engender my loyalty.

I should think that it would be apparent that as a Catholic, my loyalty of necessity would be to Christ and his teachings first.

As for spiritual vs. secular heads of states: the spiritual world and the secular world are separate; Christ himself said, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."

I can think of no situation where one would be at odds with the other in my life.

What if the Pope excommunicated your state leader and told all loyal Catholics to rebel against him/her and declare him/her as illegitmate?

God.

Well, it would depend on what the leader did to get excommunicated. One can't just judge on blind loyalty alone; it's best to handle it case by case.

What if the Pope excommunicated your state leader and told all loyal Catholics to rebel against him/her and declare him/her as illegitmate?

That's simply not going to happen.
What if the moon were made of chocolate?

That's simply not going to happen.
What if the moon were made of chocolate?

If the moon were made of ribs, would you eat it?

Well, the Pope is infallible on matters such as that. So I'm sorry to say but this is one of those situations that I couldn't ever think of having to choose.

the Pope. God is more important than my nation (the USA).
HAIL BENEDEICT XVI

Mmmmmmm.....
That sounds good, but I don't know if I can eat all of it.
This shoudn't be a problem in today's world. We're not living in the Crusades, no matter how much Bush wants us to.

What would the Pope have to do to make you see himas 'false' or go against his word?

What would the Pope have to do to make you see himas 'false' or go against his word?

Simple. Go against Christ's teachings.

Quite simple, I am loyal to neither. I'm more loyal to my family and home state than anything.

What have Bush or Bennedict XVI done to deserve my loyalty?

What if the Pope excommunicated your state leader and told all loyal Catholics to rebel against him/her and declare him/her as illegitmate?


I wait patiently and eagerly in the hope that that day will come.

I am loyal to nobody but God. The Pope is just my guide.

What would the Pope have to do to make you see himas 'false' or go against his word?


Wicked wrongs and crimes.

Quite simply, are you more loyal to the Pope as head of your religion and God's chosen representative on earth or are you more loyal to your head of state, whoever that might be?


No, I'm not loyal to the pope... I'm not Catholic. I'm loyal to my conscience for ther most part, which I feel God is in tune with. I am a sinner as we all are.. to a certain extint. I respect all people until they give me reason not to, I respect my parents even though they have given me Many resons not to. But respect doesn't mean I bow down and follow their ways.

The Pope is only infallable on matters of faith. For example, just because Paul II was against the war in Iraq doesn't make the war wrong. It is not a matter of faith so having allegiance with the president doesn't mean you aren't align with the Pope and the Catholic Church. Again, the Pope is only infallable on matters of faith

Anyone who has more loyalty to the Pope then to their own country is a moron. Pope is the most worthless, douchiest office there can be. Use your head, not the Pope's.

No, I'm not loyal to the pope... I'm not Catholic. I'm loyal to my conscience for ther most part, which I feel God is in tune with. I am a sinner as we all are.. to a certain extint. I respect all people until they give me reason not to, I respect my parents even though they have given me Many resons not to. But respect doesn't mean I bow down and follow their ways.
Exactly :) :) :) :)

What if the Pope excommunicated your state leader and told all loyal Catholics to rebel against him/her and declare him/her as illegitmate?

Who are you, Ian Paisley? This has not ever happened in modern history and cannot happen in the future, seeing as the church has sworn off politics. The Pope is a spiritual leader, nothing more. If the Archbishop of Canturbury told Anglicans to part their hair on the left, would they? If the Dalai Lama told Buddhists to call Geico, would they? If Jewish leaders told all loyal Jews to start listening to the Clash, would they? The idea that Catholics are more loyal to the Pope than to any other earthly authority is a myth propagated by 19th Century protestant politicians facing Catholic opponents.

Hrm. Tough question. Personally, up to the death of John Paul II, I would've jumped straight at that Papal answer, but I mean, geez....I met the guy when I was a small child. I have a picture of myself with him stored away at home, to happily display either in my household of the future (I don't trust that photo in a dorm room), or in my small room at the Convent, a few years down the road.
However, as he's recently died, God rest his soul.....I have to consider stating loyalty to a Pope that has yet to prove himself, or to a President whom I absolutely disagree with in nearly all matters. Both are incredibly conservative while I was raised liberal, and both are pretty old-school in social terms.....

Still, in this case, I'd have to stick with the Pope. I am a Catholic before an American (in a matter of years I'll be relocating, anyway), and I value God over the nation. There, I said it, feel free to curse me publicly, I don't really care. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to flipping off my computer with the intent of it somehow reaching you if I'm actually somehow insulted.

Church and State should be one and the same!
Helen Clarke is an Arse so Go Pope!

Quite simply, are you more loyal to the Pope as head of your religion and God's chosen representative on earth or are you more loyal to your head of state, whoever that might be?

Even when I was a seriously devout Catholic I wasn't loyal to the pope. (I know it sounds odd, I thought power should reside in Church Councils rather then in a pope). I wasn't particuarly loyal to the head of state either, but being an British catholic it shouldn't be hard to imagine why.

As an ex-catholic I am about as loyal to both equally. That is, I wouldn't hesitate to sell them down the river at a moments notice to the next passing alien.

It will always be God - controller of the Universe or Tony Blair - easy choice.

I would follow God and the Pope before my president. Yet if I saw the Pope doing wrong in his policies, I would have to turn against him.



Yet even if Benedict XVI told me to rise against my president I probably would. Hail Benedict XVI!

:mp5: :sniper:

I would follow God and the Pope before my president. Yet if I saw the Pope doing wrong in his policies, I would have to turn against him.



Yet even if Benedict XVI told me to rise against my president I probably would. Hail Benedict XVI!

:mp5: :sniper:
My sentiments exactly. You stated that so much more efficiently than I.

Simonist']My sentiments exactly. You stated that so much more efficiently than I.

Well...uh...

He did use smiley faces and you didn't...

but how does that portray it better?

My only king is Jesus Christ.

Therefore his representative on earth, Pope Benedict XVI, commands my loyalty more than John Howard, who I would never vote for, and who I despise.

Well...uh...

He did use smiley faces and you didn't...

but how does that portray it better?
Well, I went on for lines and lines and rather indirectly stated all the things that Raethe put together in a much more compact, and easily read, manner. Hence the efficiency......get it?