NationStates Jolt Archive

So ...

My wife had to read this awful piece of pseudo-science called "The Way We Think" by Fauconnier and Turner for a class and write a paper using various topics discussed therein.

For those of you unfamiliar, it's primarily about conceptual blending. If you're even more unfamiliar, it can be summed up in the following joke: "What do you get when you cross an elephant and a kangaroo? Holes all over Australia."

Anyway, I read the book when she was done and watched as she struggled to understand the concepts behind it and just exactly what it was she needed to be doing. My wife, bless her heart, is not an artist. She is a logical thinker who requires a distinct point A to point B approach to things. She's a thousand times more intelligent than I could ever hope to be, but this sort of thing gives her a pain in the gulliver.

So, I agreed to help her with the paper ... which ended up in me writing the majority of the paper. I wrote a terrific little piece using a comparative study to my seven year old playing softball and Immanuel Kant's "transcendental idealism". Frankly, it was brilliant.

Unfortunately, she got the paper back with a big fat "F" on it with the reason cited: Too insightful for this level of class, possible cheating.

*SIGH*

She didn't cheat. She came to me for help. Since when is going to outside sources "cheating"? She conceptualised the softball game and I compared it to Kant. It's not cheating, damnit!

So...

What would you do? Appeal to the Dean of Students? Let it go? Throw rocks at the professor?

Certainly an appeal is in order...

although, I see a potential problem if she didn't cite you...if she quoted or paraphrased you that is...

appeal the grade.

Then tell the prof just cause he too stupid to understand what is being said doesn't mean the paper is bad. (not actually advisable)

If you wrote the majority of the paper, but your wife claimed credit for it, that is cheating and plagiarism. The fine line is if your wife came to you for ideas, you talked about it with her, and this inspired her to her own work, that is fine. Even if you checked it for her afterwards, commented and suggested more options, that is also fine. Writting part or most of the paper though...

Just a teacher's opinion.

If you wrote any of it IMHO you accidentially cheated. Did you do all the planning and drafting on the computer? if so, many programs these days have a 'track changes' function. While it can't prove who typed it it can prove that the paper was not copied in whole and that her thought did go into it...

well..the professor really has no proof whatsoever to accuse her of cheating. He can think all he wants, but unless he has no proof then it shouldn't affect her grade. I think you guys should appeal the grade. "inoccent until proven guilty" that, should be said in every case, not just in the law. unless he can prove that she did, then he should not be able to give her an F because its too good of a paper.

If you wrote the majority of the paper, but your wife claimed credit for it, that is cheating and plagiarism.

I'm a teacher, too.

Is it really plagiarism if the author gives you full rights?

Did you do all the planning and drafting on the computer?

Nah ... I'm of the old school type. I really like legal pads and a couple of pencils.

--snip-o-rama--
So, I agreed to help her with the paper ... which ended up in me writing the majority of the paper. I wrote a terrific little piece using a comparative study to my seven year old playing softball and Immanuel Kant's "transcendental idealism". Frankly, it was brilliant.

Unfortunately, she got the paper back with a big fat "F" on it with the reason cited: Too insightful for this level of class, possible cheating.

*SIGH*

She didn't cheat. She came to me for help. Since when is going to outside sources "cheating"? She conceptualised the softball game and I compared it to Kant. It's not cheating, damnit!
--snippage--


You "writing the majority of the paper" is cheating. I know that's not likely what you want to hear, but there it is. Could she have come up with Kant on her own? I'm not saying she's not intelligent if she couldn't, but "going to a source" is not what's happened here. The whole concept/thesis for the paper (not the softball game, but the comparison to Kant) was not her idea, nor did she do any research to discover it. That's cheating.

You didn't do her any favors -- and the whole "frankly it was brilliant" comment says to me that this is at least a bit about your ego rather than your wife's education. Now had you told her about Kant and directed her to one of his essays or works in which he discussed what eventually became your comparison, then you're a source.

As a teacher, if I see work that suddenly and drastically changes from all previous writing, I am a fool to not be suspicious. Now, in your wife's defense, I don't automatically assume cheating and scrawl a nasty F on the paper, either. I would have called your wife in to meet with me and discuss the paper. I'd make clear that the reason I'm suspicious is because of the dissimilarity to past work (which I'm taking as read from your description), and I'd either ask her outright how the idea came to her or, if I were feeling Sherlock Holmesy, I'd ask questions that someone so well-versed in these Kantian principles should be able to answer. I don't know if her prof is that patient.

As for what to tell the professor/dean, tell them the truth. Fess up. Tell them exactly what happened and let them decide based on the policies of the school. If they're decent people, they'll allow an extension and a chance for your wife to reconceptualize the paper. Anything's better than an F.

I hope I have not angered you or insulted you with this post in any way, and if I have, I apologize. It's just that I see a lot of cheating now that 'Net users are getting more sophisitcated about it. In no way do I mean to impugn the character of either you or your wife.

NdL

well..the professor really has no proof whatsoever to accuse her of cheating. He can think all he wants, but unless he has no proof then it shouldn't affect her grade. I think you guys should appeal the grade. "inoccent until proven guilty" that, should be said in every case, not just in the law. unless he can prove that she did, then he should not be able to give her an F because its too good of a paper.

That's kinda the angle I'm gonna try. I mean ... sure, I did much of the work - if you can call it that ... I live for this shit - but I will ultimately end up asking him for proof.

I hope I have not angered you or insulted you with this post in any way, and if I have, I apologize. It's just that I see a lot of cheating now that 'Net users are getting more sophisitcated about it. In no way do I mean to impugn the character of either you or your wife.


No no ... not at all. It's the sort of candor I asked for. Yes, my "frankly it was brilliant" was a bit tongue in cheek ... I am a fan of anything my wife and I build together, sorry. :D

We did discuss Kant ad nauseum and went through a couple of dozen scenarios of conceptual blending in order to finalize the subsequent paper. It was, yes, a collaborative effort, but I actively told her that crediting or citing me as a source was not needed.

I'm a teacher, too.

Is it really plagiarism if the author gives you full rights?

plagiarism

n 1: a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work 2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own [syn: plagiarization, plagiarisation, piracy]


yes it is. that said, the prof had no reason to assume so, and should certainly have talked to her about it, or told some nameless faceless grad student lackeys to scour the intraweb until they found something incriminating.

edit: just read your last post. i do still technically consider this cheating, but would probably have done the same myself. to get into why it is or is nt cheating to collaborate with your spouse, though, i think one would need to get into spousal dynamics in ways i do not wish to here.

I'm a teacher, too.

Is it really plagiarism if the author gives you full rights?

Yes, if she passed off your words as her own. Although the professor jumped the gun a great deal in simply assuming the worst and nailing her with an F. He should have scheduled a meeting with her to discuss his concerns.

to get into why it is or is nt cheating to collaborate with your spouse, though, i think one would need to get into spousal dynamics in ways i do not wish to here.

Aye ... and there's the rub. You get so used to doing so many things together that you often forget the rest of the world is such a lonely place.

I guess we'll talk to the Dean and see what happens, but if in the end it comes to naught, we'll expand on the paper and publish our own book about conceptual blending. :p

I'm a teacher, too.

Is it really plagiarism if the author gives you full rights?
*Groans* You WOULD have to ask that question! Ok, from my understanding of it (and this is based from American academia, so if you're anywhere else your actual millage may vary) yes, it does. Anytime you use works or ideas that were not created by you without properly citing them, you have committed plagiarism. Even if the author of said works is your husband and gave you his blessing, you didn't do the work, you didn't create it, it's not yours.

Of course the really fun part comes in is when said works were not published first, then it really gets complicated.

I sympathise with you, I help my fiancee with her school work all the time and it's a hard line to walk and not fall over, espcially when it's usually easier just to write the damn thing instead of hint, suggest, and correct.

The best I can offer is it depends on how much of this paper was your work and how much was collaberative, and how much was strictly your wife's work. Personally I would explain the situation to the professor and ask for a chance to redo it, explain it as an honest mistake and over-enthusiastic help (what husband isn't after all? ;) ) and not a delberate attempt at cheating.

I agree that the F and comment was harsh though.

Though I don't know anything about the rules in place, my gut reaction is that it's cheating.
I'm sure you didn't mean to be dishonest, but you did admit to writing most of it.

Nah ... I'm of the old school type. I really like legal pads and a couple of pencils.

The thing about handwriting is that you can tell who wrote it. I suppose technically if you quote anyone (with or without permission) and do not refrence it it can be called plagiarism.

I sympathise with you, I help my fiancee with her school work all the time and it's a hard line to walk and not fall over, espcially when it's usually easier just to write the damn thing instead of hint, suggest, and correct.


Thing is, anything more than hinting, suggesting and correcting means that she's not learning. Not really. My ex-fiancee and I were in the same college (me master's, she bachelor's), and while I am a good writer and synthesizer of disparate ideas, she's a great conceptualizer and hatcher of ideas. We both would pull our own hair out trying not to drop the idea bomb that would solve a thorny problem for one another, but we agreed beforehand we wouldn't do that. The farthest we'd go was that she'd comment on the effectiveness of my ideas and I'd proofread and style-check her writing.

Thing is, anything more than hinting, suggesting and correcting means that she's not learning. Not really. My ex-fiancee and I were in the same college (me master's, she bachelor's), and while I am a good writer and synthesizer of disparate ideas, she's a great conceptualizer and hatcher of ideas. We both would pull our own hair out trying not to drop the idea bomb that would solve a thorny problem for one another, but we agreed beforehand we wouldn't do that. The farthest we'd go was that she'd comment on the effectiveness of my ideas and I'd proofread and style-check her writing.
Excatly. And believe me, it is hard not to tell her the answers, or suggest a paper topic. The most I will go is to suggest an area that she hasn't looked at, usually due to cultural differences, and leave her to do the research.

Of course she also wants to hit me when I keep commenting why on her conclutions, but I figure that's what happens when you get engaged to a teacher.