NationStates Jolt Archive

This morning I got on the train at Laverton (a suburb of Melbourne Australia) and sat next to a man.

I didn't take much notice of him when I first sat down but later noticed that he was homeless.

First I noticed a smell of urine and sweat. Then that his clothes were dirty and clearly not suitable for the weather (3C and he had a light jumper and very worn jeans)

I also noticed he had no shoes, his feet were covered in mud, toe nails well and truely overgrown. His hands were similarly dirty with chipped fingernails, dirty under the remnants of nails.

His hair had debris from grass, twigs and mud going right through it.

As I watched other commuters reacted to this man.

What would your reaction had been to him?

There are a bunch of homeless in every place I've lived. I've even been one of them. No reaction, really. Sucks, and I'm a hair's breadth from that, but thats about it.

I wouldn't sit next to him.

treat him like you would any other, but offer him some food and/or drink and/or spare clothing if you have any.

The poll I've posted is from the reactions I observed on the train, all but calling the police.

Please be truthful. A few of these options flashed through my head too before I chose the offer assistance option.

It was clear that he had borded the train to escape the almost freezing temperatures.

I offered to take him to the Salvation Army Temple in Bourke Street, around the corner from my work, I was even willing to buy a few comforts for him from their opp shop if the need arose.

I'd ignore'em, like I do with anyone else.

If he's in that bad of shape, it suggests he's got some sort of mental problem. I'm inclined to assume that Melbourne is at least as giving to its poor as the US is, and that the guy can at least use public bathrooms and such to keep -somewhat- clean.

People have lived in the forests their entire lives and kept nice and clean...

I don't know if I've ever come across anyone that bad off except in Mexico.
I know I've taken quite a few homeless guys to lunch, but at least they had shoes. I rarely give cash, because some of them will buy alchohol even when they're in need of a meal. I even knew one guy that prefered that sort of life. The freedom he gained was worth it for him to endure the other hardships.
Though I've gotten more cautious with age, I'm notorious for adopting strays. I got to know a couple of them well enough to invite them to live with me. My husband tolerated it, but it sometimes drove him nuts. But once they were back on their feet he'd insist they find their own place.

I have been confrnted with this situation several times, most recently at a job I had, near the bus station. There was (is still actually) a very large homless population, and I would keep cans of soup and such (tinned beef and SPAM mostly), and give it to them. I would also keep extra clothes and shoes to give to them as well. I also had information about several shelters and rehabilitation centers that I would give to them.

Oftentimes in my life I have found that I am about one paycheck away from similiar circumstances.

I live in San Francisco and Beijing and go to school in Santa Cruz, California and all three of these cities are places with big homeless populations. I've done a lot of different things under various circumstances. I've offered money, I've given directions to places, I've just had friendly conversations with a few before. That's with the homeless people in the U.S.

Chinese beggars are a completely type of phenomenon and I've never even bothered with them. They mutilate themselves and work in groups in order to get more sympathy (and RMB). I hate to say it, but it seems like many of the American homeless I've ever encountered seemed to have this sense of self-respect that was completely absent from the Chinese beggars. That is, if they were not completely gone, mentally.

Still, I'm afraid I ignore them more often than I should.

Why are their beggers in China?

It's supposed to be a communist paradise.

Work to live and all that.

Why are their beggers in China?

It's supposed to be a communist paradise.

Work to live and all that.

Yeah, you'd think that, wouldn't you? At this point, it's more like an authoritarian capitalist state but the thing is, they have to keep calling themselves Communist otherwise they lose their ideological mandate. I know it makes no sense, but that's just how it is. >_<

Of course, I'd assist him and get him cleaned up. Who wouldn't?

I can't believe there are so many good souls out there. I've never seen anyone offering any help to homeless people in the street or in public transportation. (if it's not their job). I've seen people giving the rest of their lunch/meal/snack to them and I've done it too but nothing else.

And in this country it can be dangerous too. They are homeless for a reason (drug use, alcoholics (in which case it's their choice, there are shelters), mental problems, very few exceptions). I'm not responsible to look after mental patients. If they don't take their drugs they should be in hospital. (I know mental patients who sell their drugs to get other drugs. They can be very dangerous to everyone near them. I've had to call police many many times.)

I can't believe there are so many good souls out there. I've never seen anyone offering any help to homeless people in the street or in public transportation. (if it's not their job). I've seen people giving the rest of their lunch/meal/snack to them and I've done it too but nothing else.

And in this country it can be dangerous too. They are homeless for a reason (drug use, alcoholics (in which case it's their choice, there are shelters), mental problems, very few exceptions). I'm not responsible to look after mental patients. If they don't take their drugs they should be in hospital. (I know mental patients who sell their drugs to get other drugs. They can be very dangerous to everyone near them. I've had to call police many many times.)

Does Finland have a big homelessness problem?

Does Finland have a big homelessness problem?
No. Social security works quite well. In many cases it's their own choice. Mental patients are the biggest problem. They push them out of hospitals way too early and that causes serious problems. Just like in Sweden. There have been several cases where mentally ill people have killed other people without any (rational) reason. (murder of Anna Lindh, anyone? Except he wasn't homeless.)

edit. Oh the police thing is misleading. One single person caused all the trouble.

No. Social security works quite well. In many cases it's their own choice. Mental patients are the biggest problem. They push them out of hospitals way too early and that causes serious problems. Just like in Sweden. There have been several cases where mentally ill people have killed other people without any reason. (murder of Anna Lindh, anyone? Except he wasn't homeless.)

edit. Oh the police thing is misleading. One single person caused all the trouble.

Well, things are clearly different in Finland. See, here in the "good-old U.S. of A.", people are homeless through no fault of their own. The only things that go toward helping the homeless in this country are shelters, and there are hardly enough to help everyone. Do our politicians give a shit about it? Nope.

If I had the opportunity, I would help as many as I possibly could. Why? I wouldn't want to be in such a dire situation, with no help from my government, which constantly tells me that it's "helping" me.

I was homeless for a couple of months once. But even before that I tended to help out as much as I could. Actually I'm probably less helpful now. While I was homeless I found out how ruthless some of them get while trying to survive. And I found out how really nuts some of them are. I would say that not just a lot of them, but the majority have serious mental health problems. That's why I was homeless. The mental health system is terribly over burdened and many times can only help the worst off. This leaves little money for prevention.
"Yeah, we'd like to help you, but you're still working and have a house to live in. There are 150 people ahead of you that have already gone off the deep end."
I actually had one place say they couldn't help me unless I was pregnant or a drug addict. I thought- "So I have to screw my life up even more to get help?"

Of course, I'd assist him and get him cleaned up. Who wouldn't?

The people on my train who, joked, stared, made rude comments and generally made him feel unwelcome.

Once I spoke to him and offered help he respectfully declined and explained to be he was heading for the State Trustees.

The Trustees hold his money for him and he had run out so he was going to get some more.

I think you need a court order for your money to be held by the Trustees.

Well, things are clearly different in Finland. See, here in the "good-old U.S. of A.", people are homeless through no fault of their own. The only things that go toward helping the homeless in this country are shelters, and there are hardly enough to help everyone. Do our politicians give a shit about it? Nope.

If I had the opportunity, I would help as many as I possibly could. Why? I wouldn't want to be in such a dire situation, with no help from my government, which constantly tells me that it's "helping" me.
Yes, I know. I'm still amazed. (positively, though I'm not very convinced that everyone has been truly honest in this poll. I've seen enough posts from you to believe that you'd help).

The people on my train who, joked, stared, made rude comments and generally made him feel unwelcome.

Once I spoke to him and offered help he respectfully declined and explained to be he was heading for the State Trustees.

The Trustees hold his money for him and he had run out so he was going to get some more.

I think you need a court order for your money to be held by the Trustees.

Wow, such mean people. I don't think they would've kept on if I was there, if you "get my drift".

Anyway, sounds like he was a nice guy.

Well, I would follow the guy off the train if he got off the next stop...get him a dark alley way and knife him. Nah..I would REALLY follow him off, and try and buy some food and then catch up with him and give it to him...if I got somehow lucky and could buy a blanket I would too. Then again this depends on how much of a rush I am in. If I was super busy, I'd probaly give him whatever was warmer - my coat or my shirt. and I'd give him my socks..but I would do it at the end of the trip.

Yes, I know. I'm still amazed. (positively, though I'm not very convinced that everyone has been truly honest in this poll. I've seen enough posts from you to believe that you'd help).

Yeah, there's no question. And, really, our whole Social Security system is a big crock.

Here's one thing: You lose a good amount of your benefits if you get even a part-time job, making minimum wage. You lose said benefits even if your minimum wage job can't even replace 15% of the money the benefits gave you.

It's total bullshit. It's not a safety net. It's a trap.

Yeah, there's no question. And, really, our whole Social Security system is a big crock.

Here's one thing: You lose a good amount of your benefits if you get even a part-time job, making minimum wage. You lose said benefits even if your minimum wage job can't even replace 15% of the money the benefits gave you.

It's total bullshit. It's not a safety net. It's a trap.
We have similar problems. There are people who'd loose money if they'd take the job offered (part-time, minimum wage). It's a situation where everyone loses. It wouldn't be as dramatic as you said (I'd say they could lose about 10% of their income) but it's still insane.

We have similar problems. There are people who'd loose money if they'd take the job offered (part-time, minimum wage). It's a situation where everyone loses. It wouldn't be as dramatic as you said (I'd say they could lose about 10% of their income) but it's still insane.

Just goes to show that most governments care nothing about people. It's all about the money.

Defitely a trap.
I feel well enough I could probably manage a part-time job now. But if I work I lose medical benefits. A part-time job wouldn't give me any medical benefits. And it wouldn't pay well enough for me to afford my rather expensive medications. Psychotropic meds are pretty expensive. Don't go nuts unless you're rich. :p

You must agree that at some point people need to loose their benefits from social security.

"Give a man a fish he eats for one day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a life-time"

Social security should be in place fore those who fall on hard times. The fact that it is strictly controlled is due to arseholes who abuse the system.

You must agree that at some point people need to loose their benefits from social security.

"Give a man a fish he eats for one day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a life-time"

Social security should be in place fore those who fall on hard times. The fact that it is strictly controlled is due to arseholes who abuse the system.Though there are definitely exceptions, most people I know on disability can't wait until they can work again.
There needs to be more help in the transitional phase. If they phased out benefits as your ability to provide for yourself improved, people would be self-sufficient more quickly.

Don't get me wrong, the system is too inflexable to account for individual cases. The transition can however be a difficult time for anyone to decide where benefits should be cut.

Over here if you loose social security you also risk loosing you concession cards. The card provides cheap health care, some utility bills are reduced, education expenses are slashed and public transport tickets sold at a reduced fee.

All this stuff adds up when you start paying full price for them.

As a tax payer I expect people to be taken off the system asap.
As a person it is a tougher call.

How come that this poll does not leave me with the option of just tolerating the man and leave him be?!?

I wouldn't do anything if he left me alone. I might even give him a couple of bucks if he has a nice story to tell.

So he's dirty and he stinks? Big deal! There's not much left in the world of bodies that still gets to me. I've been puked at (one time with blood) and there's not much left to disgust me when it comes to humans - except for their behavior. You think urine, sweat and shit smell bad? Ever smelled a two to three week old corpse?

Honestly, there's worse than a man who's just taking a train ride.