NationStates Jolt Archive

I have read over the forums for a little while now, and issues are constantly brought up which have me thinking. I have had my own beliefs for a while now, and normally I keep to myself with them. However, I have seen so many people complaining one way or another... either that established science is completely true and that God is completely a myth, or that God and the Bible are the truth, and that no matter what science tells us we can't believe it.

I was not raised under traditional religious values. I do not know which category of Christianity I would even fall under. As a young child, I loved to read about science and the universe, as well as religious stories and such. I have never understood why people find it necessary to fight over this.

I am intelligent enough to realize, that the Bible (and all other religious books of the world) were written by men, not God. Men can lie, men can make mistakes, men can mistranslate. Hell, in school we did an experiment where we would all stand in line, and the teacher would tell a short story to the person in the front of the line, and by the time the story reached the end of the line, it was completely different. I do not take the bible word for word, more the stories it tries to tell us. Ideals like not to kill, and to be a good person. Just because I believe in God and the idea the bible is trying to give, does not mean I am stubborn and can't realize that science, too, is true. I know there is no possible way Noah got every damned animal in existence on his little boat for 80 days. I know it is more likely that the destruction of Sodom and other cities was caused by a volcano, and people did not understand such things, so they believed it was God and his anger. It doesn't mean I don't believe in God that I don't believe everything in the Bible.

Personally, I do not believe God created the Earth in seven days. There is too much that is illogical about that. Does this mean I should be shocked and question my religious beliefs? No. I think the fact that our universe is so complicated, and that so many laws and such exist are a testament to an intelligent and creative God.

I believe in evolution. I think you would have to be pretty closed minded to believe that if we have a caring and loving God somewhere out there in the universe, that (he/she/it/they) would make creatures in the universe unable to change, grow, and adapt. The universe is a chaotic place, and if you are unable to change things are going to be very difficult to you and your species.

I also believe that there are intelligent races out there in the universe. Do I believe they have visited Earth? Well it is possible, but that's not the point. If it was discovered that there were other races in the universe as a fact, would I question my religion? No, because it would also be odd for an intelligent God to create such a huge, HUGE universe and only one planet with one single intelligent race in the entire place.

So why do people fight over religion and science? They are both so very similar, they try to make sense of the universe, because face it, we have absolutely no control. However, with either religion or science, it allows us to feel as if we have some sort of command and advantage, simply because we believe we understand more about it. Both are accepted as fact by some people, and denied by others. This happens, everybody has different views. It just seems, that two very similar things should not draw such hatred... both also can only be proved on the basis of other words from people who believe the same.

Trying to explain what I mean there, many people believe in God in a certain way, because others once believed that way and wrote it down. Soon it became accepted as fact in religion, and as time went on different facts and beliefs built upon that. The same way as science. People believe in science, because at one time, somebody else thought that way and wrote it down. Soon, it became accepted as fact in science, and as time went on different facts and theories built upon that. (Edit: Basically, I am just trying to say that for either, nothing can prove itself. It must always draw on something else believed or 'proven' to be true, but then again for that one thing to be proven true, it itself had to draw on something proven true before that.)

Sorry this is so long, and probably could have been written out better, but it's late and I am just curious to find out what people think. I also apologize for any spelling or grammar errors, again, it's late :)

why do people fight over this stuff?

because the think they are right and they are distraught when they see all these other people going in what they percieve to be " the wrong direction".

As a person who thinks they are mostley right on the subject of God, I can say this confidently. :D

why do people fight over this stuff?

because the think they are right and they are distraught when they see all these other people going in what they percieve to be " the wrong direction".

As a person who thinks they are mostley right on the subject of God, I can say this confidently. :D
Sure, but everybody believes they are right about one thing or another. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing. I just don't know why it leads to such rage as name calling in forums, or even wars in the real world. If you believe different than I do, that's fine with me. More power to you, I think everyone has the right to believe what they want. Just because you believe something I don't is no reason for me to get upset, or tell you you're wrong, because neither of us really KNOW the truth. We only have faith... And no I don't just mean faith in religion type faith.

*snip*

People argue over this stuff because they enjoy it. Sometimes they even teach something or learn something. But mostly they enjoy it.

The only thing some seem to enjoy more is whining about how the other side likes to argue.

(That is not directed at you or anyone in particular. You weren't whining.)

Sure, but everybody believes they are right about one thing or another. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing. I just don't know why it leads to such rage as name calling in forums, or even wars in the real world. If you believe different than I do, that's fine with me. More power to you, I think everyone has the right to believe what they want. Just because you believe something I don't is no reason for me to get upset, or tell you you're wrong, because neither of us really KNOW the truth. We only have faith... And no I don't just mean faith in religion type faith.People get upset when they are threatened or frustrated by another persons opinions. Often our positions are so polar on such important issues - issues that actually EFFECT our lives, and the lives of those we love - that its hard to even have enough common ground to understand each other, much less be unemotional and detached.

What's wrong with a little spark anyway?

Because God appeared to them in a vision and said "You must destroy all the infidels with your wit and intelligance! The Bible is your tool!"

because Jesus wants converts! now now now now now SAVE THOSE SOULS!!

Because people are idiots and other people love to point that out

Because some people can't take a joke

there's a milliion reasons

The fundamental problem is that spiritual matters are intensly personal. At the end of the day, one only has one's own experience to go on. While one can share information with others, the final basis for one's spiritual beliefs is oneself. So, in a way, when someone espouses a different belief from those which one holds, it can register as a personal attack rather than a sharing of information. It doesn't have to be, mind you, it just comes off that way.

There is also a lot of fear involved. Many people believe in various religions out of a desire to explain death or evil. They're frightened of simply disappearing when they die or having to live in a world where they feel that horrible things are done to them with no punishment for the person who's doing it. So, when someone tells them that they might be wrong, the instinct is to lash back because one of their deepest and most secret fears is that they are indeed wrong.

It doesn't all just come from theists, however. Many athiests claim that title after suffering hideous treatment from a church. They are angry (which is perfectly understandable) and strike back against God and divinity and those that espouse beliefs in them, not because they don't believe in God, but because they are seeking revenge on something they feel wronged them.

Even in the absence of this, I believe there's also a fear of uncertainty in many atheists. There is a nagging sense of doubt as to their lack of belief which parallels the doubt in the heart of a theist.

Now, by no means do these stances compose the whole of theist/atheist thought.

What's wrong with a little spark anyway?
Not a thing :) I am not talking about arguements or debates done in a civilized and nonviolent way. I am talking about people who really get up in arms about something. A little spark is healthy... it's the big sparks that I was speaking of.

There just was a similar "Faith vs. Science" thread like this one . . . and I agree with you that God and science can coexist.

I have found my rationality to be lacking several times while in discussions on NS and have been continuously changing my thought process.

When I came on here, I was a leftist. After eight months of NS and two economics classes, I am socially moderate and an ardent capitalist.

I have found my rationality to be lacking several times while in discussions on NS and have been continuously changing my thought process.

When I came on here, I was a leftist. After eight months of NS and two economics classes, I am socially moderate and an ardent capitalist.

Hmmm, what do you consider a leftist? Does this mean, you were convinced to move to the right (The right with all its anti-abortionists, bible-bashers and burn-gays-on-a-pile-of-sticks-kinda-people) or does it just mean that you were a sort of romantic communist (I used to be one)?
What kind of Economics Classes were those? I've been studying Economics for two years now, and while the intro-classes suggested markets were great at all times, that is not the whole story of course.
Nonetheless, good on you for being able to modify your views. It's not easy.
And that's why people call each other things like "burn-gays-on-a-pile-of-sticks-kinda-people". The Religious often feel a need to tell others about their religion (maybe because they want to save them from the spiritual abyss) and to the Science-minded the obvious contradictions between what religion says and what we can see and measure are just too much. And since they can see that, they try to tell everybody how great that makes them (and me). And nobody can give way, and so frustration at the other's inability to comprehend one's perfectly reasonable arguments leads to anger.