NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's say we took 50 3-year olds 25 male, 25 female, from different races and nationalities, some from poor parents, some from rich, and stuck them on a deserted island. I would like some discussion on this, on what we would believe what would evolve from their existence. Would there be a belief in a God? Would they form a language in order to communicate? Would there be rascism in their world? What would be their Sexual Orientation? Any other thoughts?

Let me add in, any threat affecting their lives (wild animals, starvation, etc...) has been overcome. Thus, I don't want to here the arguement they would not survive. I am not actually advocating doing this, just what we might think would happen.

Read William Golding's The Lord of the Flies.

Read William Golding's The Lord of the Flies.
I have no time.

I have no time.

If you do not read it, I will kill you.

If you do not read it, I will kill you.
he'll do it, man. he's crazy.

Let's say we took 50 3-year olds 25 male, 25 female, from different races and nationalities, some from poor parents, some from rich, and stuck them on a deserted island. I would like some discussion on this, on what we would believe what would evolve from their existence. Would there be a belief in a God? Would they form a language in order to communicate? Would there be rascism in their world? What would be their Sexual Orientation? Any other thoughts?

Let me add in, any threat affecting their lives (wild animals, starvation, etc...) has been overcome. Thus, I don't want to here the arguement they would not survive. I am not actually advocating doing this, just what we might think would happen.

I actually have a better idea. we should put all those children on a deserted island and then bomb the living crap out of it. if their parents ask, we nuke them.

Do to egocentrism in children and their lack of comprehension of a world; they would probably form a religion based off of the views the children have concerning how the world works.

Stars would not be suns, but something to make the night pretty. It would rain because someone is sad. Clouds would be cotton candy or something else other then water. There really wouldn't be mechanics of how the world worked. Their world would just be that island.

Also, war would reign. They would probably divided into groups and each group would think that their ideas are the right ones and they would beat the shit out of each other with sticks and clam shells.

I would like some discussion on this, on what we would believe what would evolve from their existence. Would there be a belief in a God? Would they form a language in order to communicate? Would there be rascism in their world? What would be their Sexual Orientation? Any other thoughts?

By age 3, children will have most likely acquired language from parents. Thus, they would speak the tongue of their parents, although very very simplified. A belief in god is different. I would imagine some belief may develop, but nothing complex. Complex Religion and belief systems take much time to develop. Racism: may or may not. Humans developed racism on our own so... Sexual Orientation: most likely heterosexual, maybe with a few gays tossed in there. Whether they're open or not about it depends. I really don't know how long they'd actually survive, but I suggest reading up a bit on feral children... not exactly the case you describe, but meh.

Do to egocentrism in children and their lack of comprehension of a world; they would probably form a religion based off of the views the children have concerning how the world works.

Stars would not be suns, but something to make the night pretty. It would rain because someone is sad. Clouds would be cotton candy or something else other then water. There really wouldn't be mechanics of how the world worked. Their world would just be that island.

Also, war would reign. They would probably divided into groups and each group would think that their ideas are the right ones and they would beat the shit out of each other with sticks and clam shells.

While I agree in principle on your first point, I believe it may develop differently. For example, the idea that rain=sad is learned. Keep in mind this: children on a deserted island. rain brings water and water=good. They may not know why, but damn it, it's good. So rain may be associated with good. Other things would be valued, so something simplisitic but attractive (sparkly and such) may be seen as valuable.

While I agree in principle on your first point, I believe it may develop differently. For example, the idea that rain=sad is learned. Keep in mind this: children on a deserted island. rain brings water and water=good. They may not know why, but damn it, it's good. So rain may be associated with good. Other things would be valued, so something simplisitic but attractive (sparkly and such) may be seen as valuable.

I hear you, I was just stating that as examples of to how their views would differ from our views in a civilized world. I wasn't thinking......my bad.....

:P

Really though, isn't this what we really are? I mean, our great(*lots)grandparents were in the same basic boat.

Really though, isn't this what we really are? I mean, our great(*lots)grandparents were in the same basic boat.

Yes, you are right. It would be restarting civilization all over again. Starting from practically scratch and working from there up. We have one step up from ancestors here though; they already know language.

OK here is what I was thinking when I typed this

Would there be a belief in a God?[/QUOTE]

If you think about it, their belief in a god, like some have suggested, would be used to explain the things they do not understand. Like the sun rising and falling. By this, I am trying to say, the belief in god is only there to explain things in which we do not know. There wouldn't be structured religion, it is a creation of man. While one might evolve, it would be inherantly false.

Would there be rascism in their world?[/quote]

i believe this is also a fundamental flaw in human existence. There wouldn't be a hatred of another because of his color, but for actions he takes towards one another.

I believe this is also a fundamental flaw in human existence. There wouldn't be a hatred of another because of his color, but for actions he takes towards one another.

Actually, you cannot make that generalization. They may not understand the concept of skin color and the history of racism as we do, but the visible evidence of difference can create it's own less understood segregation.

Children will generalize the different skin colors as "different." They may accept or divide them. The different colored skinned children may choose to stay among those who are the same as them.

After all, have we not witnessed that in our own history of the world?

Erm, sexual orientation? They're three years old!

And they probably divide and kill each other. Read Lord Of The Flies, it's pretty accurate about this, and far more in depth than I can get into here.

I agree with the others. Lord of the Flies will go more into depth. It's also a VERY short book. You can read it in less than 2 hours if you are a fast reader.

As for the poor little kids stuck on the island - They're 3. There's the possibility that they will simply die off because they haven't the intelligence to know what to do besides sit there and cry.

I read the summary and it just makes me believe more that all humans have sleeping evil inside of them.

I read the summary and it just makes me believe more that all humans have sleeping evil inside of them.

No idea what you are talking about. I'm innocent. *twists lock of hair*

Lord of The Flies might not really apply for this guys situatuion though, i mean it only really follows the lives of the 9-12 year olds and i don't think any of the littleuns were 3 or younger anyway.

(i have an exam on it monday...)

Just one thing about Lord of the Flies - they're all boys in that.

One of the essays our English teacher set us on Lord of the Flies was about the significance of this, and wether a mixed group, or a group of girls would have acted differently. -that was an EVIL essay, 2000 words on what is effectivly a psycology question not an English one.

They would probably worship whoever brings them food until they are old enough to understand what is going on. See, in order to eliminate the threat of them dying as you proposed someone has to bring them food, they wont do it for themselves, they are only 3.

Sorry to be the morbid one, but in about a month, you would have about 50 dead three year old kids.

Malnutrition and dehydration are a bitch.

Sorry to be the morbid one, but in about a month, you would have about 50 dead three year old kids.

Malnutrition and dehydration are a bitch.
And disease. Don't forget disease.

And disease. Don't forget disease.


Oh yes, disease is a real bastard too.

But in this case, I dont think they would live long enough to die from Cholera, or typhoid.

In fact, depending on the season, exsposure might just do it too.

Oh yes, disease is a real bastard too.

But in this case, I dont think they would live long enough to die from Cholera, or typhoid.

In fact, depending on the season, exsposure might just do it too.
Yeah, but you could easily get to dehydration death through disease. For example, a kid eats a bad fruit, gets diahorrea. In the complete absence of any binding foods, the kid promptly craps itself to death, losing most of the water it needs through its faeces.

Yeah, but you could easily get to dehydration death through disease. For example, a kid eats a bad fruit, gets diahorrea. In the complete absence of any binding foods, the kid promptly craps itself to death, losing most of the water it needs through its faeces.


Perfectly reasonable, even probable.

I would think though, in this hypothetical situation, that most of the children would likely start drinking sea water, not knowing the difference, and perish within days from the accelerated dehydration.

Because pooping yourself to death, really really sucks.

Perfectly reasonable, even probable.

I would think though, in this hypothetical situation, that most of the children would likely start drinking sea water, not knowing the difference, and perish within days from the accelerated dehydration.

Because pooping yourself to death, really really sucks.
Just what kind of sick bastard came up with the idea of putting there poor children on the island anyway? Obviously someone who enjoys watching small people poop their innards out.

You guys are so pervert...

You guys are so pervert...
Perverted. Say it with me now, perverted... :p

The females will become lesbian cannibals and kill all of the males. Duh.

They would bite each others' ankles off and live the rest of their lives with no legs.

Let's say we took 50 3-year olds 25 male, 25 female, from different races and nationalities, some from poor parents, some from rich, and stuck them on a deserted island. I would like some discussion on this, on what we would believe what would evolve from their existence. Would there be a belief in a God? Would they form a language in order to communicate? Would there be rascism in their world? What would be their Sexual Orientation? Any other thoughts?

They would form a communist-style society in order to manufacture toys. To paraphrase Voltaire: "If Lego did not exist, it would be necessary to invent it".

they'd die.....yep they'd all die

I'm pretty sure they'd have primitive religion. 'It's raining. Why is it raining? I don't understand. Who is making it rain? Why do flowers decide to come out at a particular time each year? Who tells them to?' Etc.

Just out of interest, children of the incredibly impoverished Ik tribe typically have to fend for themselves from the age of four. Mind you, they have other kids to imitate who know which insects are good to eat, etc. And yeah, a lot of them die. (Another interesting point, the Ik don't reguard sex as enjoyable but reguard it as a bodily function similar to going to the toilet.) But survival problems are meant to be taken care of. Perhaps an offshore barge catapults baby food onto the island everyday?

Lord of The Flies might not really apply for this guys situatuion though, i mean it only really follows the lives of the 9-12 year olds and i don't think any of the littleuns were 3 or younger anyway.

(i have an exam on it monday...)
No, they're about 4-11. Jack's right hand man, the really evil one (I think his name is Roger) is only 6 or 7. You forget that when he's bashing people with rocks and starting fires, but he's just a little kid. And that's why the book hits so hard, the message wouldn't be nearly as strong if teenagers were doing this.

Read the book, even if you "don't have the time". It's very short, and a great story.

Let's get one thing straight, 50 three year olds, on a deserted island by themselves would DIE. They would not last, they wont know how to hunt for food, how to grow food or anything like that, they would die. Quite a horrid experiment.

Read William Golding's The Lord of the Flies.

Only one problem: Lord of the Flies isn't about 3year-olds, but about stuck-up and snobbish private school 8year-olds (or environs, I don't remember). That makes a whole other ball-game. Furthermore, they were not from a different nationality, and they were already pre-divided - the bullies and the bullied. The novel is not about "kids with a virginal morality, let's see what happens", it's about "kids mimic their civilised society's civilisation in a way that makes them beat the crap out of each other" and is meant to teach something to adults, not to kids.

[Edit:] And I'm being redundant... Damn me and my innate unwillingness to read entire threads :headbang:

The Kids would do what it takes to survive, whether it be forming groups or killing eachother or even working together and having everyone suport eachother. Leaving out the fact that they couldnt survive of course :)

leaving out the obviousness of dead children, he has said that all such things would be taken care of somehow, i believe that it is more a question of what societal norms are innate somehow.

they are all dependant on the individual society. so there would be no automatic racism based on skin color. they might not even really notice that skins come in different shades.

it might however be different if there were 49 blonde haired blue eyed children and 1 deeply brown skined brown eyed kid. that poor kid might end up being a scape goat to explain why bad things happen. it still wouldnt be a "those dark skinned people arent as good as us" but " that kid who stands out as different from everyone else is a witch" kind of thing.

they would develop their own language over time based on what they had already learned and their need to talk to each other. it would start out as a mish-mash of the various languages represented but it would end up unrecognizable by anyone but trained linguists. whatever words werent commonly used would be forgotten by the individual child who learned them before lving on the island.

they would develop a religion. it would be based on colllective superstitions. whatever supernatural cause and effect that occured to them would become "truth" that must be obeyed in order to survive.

they would develop a social system of some kind. in the beginning, the differences between the genders, while obvious, would not be a good basis for saying "boys are better than girls" because the big benefits/detriments to being male or female woudlnt be known for 10 years or so. they might however seperate into 2 tribes based on "how you pee". that would depend on how important those differences seemed to them.

a social hierarchy would develop. in the absence of a code of morality it might indeed be brutal. the dominants might own everything and the submissives nothing. until puberty, there is no reason to expect that boys will be dominant.

there would be sex play. i see no reason why it would be automatically boy/girl until puberty came along. for children is a "me" thing not a couple thing so whoever might want to have fun would be welcome to join in (within the dictates of the hierarchy of course).

there would be NO understanding of the link between boy/girl sex and babies. it would just suddenly happen that girls who have started having periods (imagine THAT shock) will grow big bellies and push out babies. it will obviously be some kind of miracle and they will have to figure out why its only girls and not boys who make babies. that boys are needed to start babies might never occur to them.

none of these things would really happen while they are still 3 years old. it would develop over time.

From a language perspective, likely it'd be very simple. Complicated languages take a very long time to develop without a dedicated linguist to kick start it. Basically, it'd probably have no verb/noun derivatives (no sitting from sit) or adverb derivatives (forcibly from forceable). It may have verb tenses, but would be unlikey to allow for the concept of "third person" (which normally develops after writing systems, which is also another improbability). The spoken language itself will probably be a mishmash of easy to pronounce words, probably highly distinct words. It's likely to either be highly aggluative (combining old words to make new ones, ie sun and rise for sunrise) or not aggluative at all, with completely distinct words for each noun. I'd lean towards non-aggluative since they'd probably have not enough true understanding of the world in order to form complex linkings of ideas.

it might however be different if there were 49 blonde haired blue eyed children and 1 deeply brown skined brown eyed kid. that poor kid might end up being a scape goat to explain why bad things happen. it still wouldnt be a "those dark skinned people arent as good as us" but " that kid who stands out as different from everyone else is a witch" kind of thing.

Or.. all the white kids would think the dark skinned kid was some God that's appearance was greater than their's and they would end up praising him and serving him. Eventually one kid would be sick of it and murder the guy and then they would all kill that kid.

Or.. all the white kids would think the dark skinned kid was some God that's appearance was greater than their's and they would end up praising him and serving him. Eventually one kid would be sick of it and murder the guy and then they would all kill that kid.
hahahah good point. if that kid were the dominant one, s/he would be on top rather than on bottom. if s/he were a shy introverted kid, death would come much sooner.

I actually have a better idea. we should put all those children on a deserted island and then bomb the living crap out of it. if their parents ask, we nuke them.
i concur :headbang: :sniper: :gundge: :mp5:
(lol)

No, they're about 4-11. Jack's right hand man, the really evil one (I think his name is Roger) is only 6 or 7. You forget that when he's bashing people with rocks and starting fires, but he's just a little kid. And that's why the book hits so hard, the message wouldn't be nearly as strong if teenagers were doing this.

Read the book, even if you "don't have the time". It's very short, and a great story.

actually at least Ralph is older then 11, according to the book: "twelve and a few months".

Yeah, three year old would probably die, if like normally kids they were used to depending on their parents. But theoretically, given the intelligence of a typical human, a three year old who had been taught the basics of survival (gathering food, keeping warm, etc.) may be able to survive.

As for religion, I doubt they would develop anything like that in one generation - I expect the closest they would come is thinking that nature had a personality of its own (or wanting it to, as this would allow them to appease it).

Oh yeah, the other questions.

Would they form a language in order to communicate?

If they were three, then would already have some language and would almost certainly merge their languages into some kind of pidgin.

Would there be rascism in their world?

Probably nothing as systematic as "race X is bad", but kids do make fun of those who are different.

What would be their Sexual Orientation?

Statistically, it ought to be the same ratio as in the rest of humanity. 90% straight 10% gay (roughly, this doesnt take bisexual and asexual into account)

Some things are being assumed or not assumed in this situation. For example, how big is this island? Is it big enough that groups could get isolated? Then group A will develope alittle different from group B. I figure in any event, religion would devlope as a means of explaining the natural world (remember, it was once thought the reason behind lightning was Zues throwing bolts) but it would be hard to say what the kids deem worship worthy. Is it thay mysterious force that gives them food and shelter? or is it this cool sea turtle that no one can figure out?

yeah especially if the sea turtle is up on shore the day that the minders forget to feed the kids. then it might become necessary to appease the sea turtle so that food will still come.

Statistically, it ought to be the same ratio as in the rest of humanity. 90% straight 10% gay (roughly, this doesnt take bisexual and asexual into account)

that "statistic" is totally false, i'm really sick of people treating such a complete lie as the gospel.

that "statistic" is totally false, i'm really sick of people treating such a complete lie as the gospel.

Come on then, what's your figure, and why are you any more believable that the aforementioned statistic?

Assuming they divided in groups, my money for an infighting would fall on one thing. Resources. "They've got the fresh water and aren't sharing, let's kill them, etc."

Ashmoria's post is really good. I think that's an example of what the starter of this thread intended. Nice job,

Come on then, what's your figure, and why are you any more believable that the aforementioned statistic?
The gay/lesbian population is about 2-3%, asexuals (Me!) are 1%, and bisexuals are a murky statistic no one's been able to really pin down, at least to my knowledge.

[Let's say we took 50 3-year olds 25 male, 25 female, from different races and nationalities, some from poor parents, some from rich, and stuck them on a deserted island. I would like some discussion on this, on what we would believe what would evolve from their existence. Would there be a belief in a god? Would they form a language in order to communicate? Would there be rascism in their world? What would be their Sexual Orientation? Any other thoughts?

Let me add in, any threat affecting their lives (wild animals, starvation, etc...) has been overcome. Thus, I don't want to here the arguement they would not survive. I am not actually advocating doing this, just what we might think would happen.]

I think the poor children will be more likely to survive because they would be more used to depending on themselves to find food. The rich kids, being dependent on their parents, would be followers and make the poor kids leaders.

In some cases, the kid who is different, like they have lighter eyes, is considered lucky and pretty. I think at a young age, children won't notice the nationality of their peers. Most 3 year olds I see play with anybody who's a kid no matter what their ethnicity may be. It's from their parents that they learn who is bad or good. Kids tend to inherit their parents prejudice from observing who their parents don't like and modeling after them. "If mommy doesn't like him, he must be bad." they believe their parents are always right.

i think that kids won't hold grudges. if one kid has a coconut, and another kid takes it, the first kid will have forgotten it by the next day. he won't start a revolt or 'aliance' like survivor.

I think that kids are taught about god and the boogie man as a threat. I think that kids would make up 'demonic' figures, like the monster in the woods that will eat them if they do something wrong. but, i don't think they will come up with a moralistic 'good & giving' figure.

language, does not have to have a complicated syntax in order to work. if they get along with grunts and moans and pointing, it will stay that way. they will understand eachother. much the way we can use paralangugage, or sighs and grunts with our friends, without needing words.

i think kids will just touch themselves without being told it's wrong, and touch eachother without thinking it's wrong. maybe one day they'll figure out accdentailly how to stick one thing in the other, but that seems like a lot of guessing to figure out. i don't know if they'll ever have babies if not by some crazy accident. and they would all be bi, at least for a long time.

but one way or another, a society will get started. and it'd probably be a nice one without any preconceptions of racism or war from adults. it's nice being a kid. imagine being that way forever.

well, till somebody pokes you with a stick.