NationStates Jolt Archive

Inspired from "The Galactic Empire wasn't so bad" thread....

The Republic was a large-scale goverrnment which most of the planets and systems of the Star Wars galaxy belonged to. On a galactic level it is the equivalent of a UN, where all members get their equal say. The Senate, in effect, is just an extremely expanded UN Security Council.

Now, let's draw some comparisons:
-Both the Republic and the UN were formed on the basis that by virtue of unity, its members become stronger. In reality, it works out by the usurping of national/planetary sovereignty. I'm not sure about you, but as your average inhabitant of some Outer Rim world I really wouldn't want some Senator who I barely even know legislating laws for me on the other side of the galaxy. Heck, I'd even call into concern the problems of one-world government on my homeworld

-While the movie only labels the Separatists as some sort of nebulous, vague threat because they seceeded, it could have been they just wanted to establish planetary sovereignty. And once Republic member-nations had seen how nice planetary sovereignty really is, they would seceede left and right. Perhaps the Republic's powerbrokers were scared they would lose their job?

-Both the Senate and the Security were/are paper tigers, respectively failing to stop the Trade Federation / genocide in Sudan. The Senate couldn't get jack shit done until (in the Senate's case), it's Chancellor usurped its power and proclaimed himself a dictator. And the equivalent of the Cancellor in the UN (UN Sec. General Annan) has a mighty bit of corruption surrounding him

-Both the Republic and the UN were formed on the basis that by virtue of unity, its members become stronger. In reality, it works out by the usurping of national/planetary sovereignty. I'm not sure about you, but as your average inhabitant of some Outer Rim world I really wouldn't want some Senator who I barely even know legislating laws for me on the other side of the galaxy. Heck, I'd even call into concern the problems of one-world government on my homeworld


The people of Onderon feel the same way.

Oh... I thought the republic was supposed to be a federal government.

Ha, it actually makes sense. The fact is, the Republic was too huge. It's hard to regulate one planet; a galaxy is impossible.

And the equivalent of the Cancellor in the UN (UN Sec. General Annan) has a mighty bit of corruption surrounding him

The keyword there is "surrounding", Someone who has spend basically their entire life fighting for equality amongst all people doesn't seem like the corrupted type. However his son and I'm sure quite a few UN delegates are extremely corrupt, just as the leaders of quite a few countries are corrupt.*

Other than that, I agree... unity does not always equal strength, especially if there is under- or misrepresentation in that unity. A small nation/planet/whatever will not be equal amongst others simply because of size or location, and so the "unity" really becomes a coalition of the large and strong making decisions about the small and weak.



*I will name no names in the interest of not being a typical America-basher.

The fact is, there are too many problems for one government to handle. Every planet has too many for one to handle. The UN can't possibly rule one planet, so how can one government rule a galaxy?

Hey, where's Klonor, or TIN? I'm dying to hear what they have to say.

bump

-While the movie only labels the Separatists as some sort of nebulous, vague threat because they seceeded, it could have been they just wanted to establish planetary sovereignty. And once Republic member-nations had seen how nice planetary sovereignty really is, they would seceede left and right. Perhaps the Republic's powerbrokers were scared they would lose their job?


Indeed, its truley unfortunate that the STAR WARS movies used the Separatists as just one of your typical 'evil enemies'. All of the Seppies in the movie are fighting against the Republic because they want power d whatnot. I'm surprised there havn't been more civil wars in the past against the Republic, considering how corrupt it is! I mean, just on Coruscant, millions (if not billions) of people fester in a barbaric, lawless society, without so much as tear shed by the Senate, while Senators while away the days idly debating, and their nights living luxuriously in wealth. Multiply that by the thousands of worlds in the Republic, and really, there is plenty of reason to seceed!

On another note: I can't believe that not a single Jedi did not realize this corruption, and speak out against it...

Indeed, its truley unfortunate that the STAR WARS movies used the Separatists as just one of your typical 'evil enemies'. All of the Seppies in the movie are fighting against the Republic because they want power d whatnot. I'm surprised there havn't been more civil wars in the past against the Republic, considering how corrupt it is! I mean, just on Coruscant, millions (if not billions) of people fester in a barbaric, lawless society, without so much as tear shed by the Senate, while Senators while away the days idly debating, and their nights living luxuriously in wealth. Multiply that by the thousands of worlds in the Republic, and really, there is plenty of reason to seceed!

On another note: I can't believe that not a single Jedi did not realize this corruption, and speak out against it...
Is this sarcasm?

I really can't tell.

Is this sarcasm?

I really can't tell.

No... IT was meant to be serious. What made you think I was sarcastic? (so I don't repeat those errors in the future)

Just in case: THIS IS A SERIOUS POST!!!

However his son and I'm sure quite a few UN delegates are extremely corrupt, just as the leaders of quite a few countries are corrupt.
Like Germany and France? *points to Oil for food*

Anyway, there were a few Jedi who pointed out the weaknesses and flaws of the Republic. Dooku was one. However, he fell to the Dark Side. Why? More than likely it was because of ego. He believed himself the savior of the galactic government.

Like Germany and France? *points to Oil for food*

Anyway, there were a few Jedi who pointed out the weaknesses and flaws of the Republic. Dooku was one. However, he fell to the Dark Side. Why? More than likely it was because of ego. He believed himself the savior of the galactic government.
In the Old Republic, there was a Jedi Civil War which nearly crushed the Republic. For years after that war, the Republic was teetering on the brink of annhilation.

In the Old Republic, there was a Jedi Civil War which nearly crushed the Republic. For years after that war, the Republic was teetering on the brink of annhilation.

Is the Jedi Civil War canon?

IF so, what was the cause?

Jedi Civil War is from Knights Of The Old Republic, a video game. (KOTOR) I'm not sure if it's cannon. Might be in some of the dark horse comics, but I've never seen those.

Is the Jedi Civil War canon?

IF so, what was the cause?
I'm pretty sure it is canon and they have it Star Wars: KOTOR (Xbox/PC Game).

The cause was because of the Mandalorian Wars. The Republic decided to fight the Mandalorians were expanding at an alarming rate and some younger Jedi wanted to fight and help but the Jedi Council was against it. The young Jedi who went off to fight in the war against the wishes of the council mostly shifted to the Darkside and when they returned to the council, a huge Jedi Civil War started, killing most of the Jedi and even more fell to the Darkside and joined the Sith.

I'm not a major Star Wars fan but the movies were pretty cool.

Anyway, there were a few Jedi who pointed out the weaknesses and flaws of the Republic. Dooku was one. However, he fell to the Dark Side. Why? More than likely it was because of ego. He believed himself the savior of the galactic government.
And in relation to the UN, John Bolton also works to point out the UN's flaws and problems. But how, if at all, would he fall to the equivalent of the Dark Side? Unless he somehow flip-floped and went pro-UN.... :confused:

BUMP - Klonor or TIN, plz respond

Oh COME ON. Do you know what its like to have your entire planet BLOWN UP by the Evil Empire? Have you had your entire clan slaughtered by agents of darkness while fascists strangle galactic trade for their own selfish greed? Maybe you just don't care. I hate you. The galactic Republic brings PEACE, not to mention democracy, to worlds which otherwise would be simply victims/victimizers of any petty tyrant with a few trillion tons of star destroyer. Why do you people have to post these threads which do nothing but promote the idealogies of war criminals like Darth Vader? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Oh COME ON. Do you know what its like to have your entire planet BLOWN UP by the Evil Empire?
That was done by the Galactic Empire, which had formed from the remenants of the REPUBLIC

Have you had your entire clan slaughtered by agents of darkness while fascists strangle galactic trade for their own selfish greed?
How effective was the Republic in stopping the Trade Federation? Remember, it was a few dedicated Naboo fighter pilots who stopped them.

The galactic Republic brings PEACE, not to mention democracy, to worlds which otherwise would be simply victims/victimizers of any petty tyrant with a few trillion tons of star destroyer. Why do you people have to post these threads which do nothing but promote the idealogies of war criminals like Darth Vader? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Did I say individual planets couldn't coordinate a response to maniacs like those? I never said that; they can for all I care; what I oppose is an unconditional, mandatory government structure like the Republic forced on planets.

That was done by the Galactic Empire, which had formed from the remenants of the REPUBLIC


The REMNANTS, meaning it had been destroyed. If it had survived, things would have been better!

How effective was the Republic in stopping the Trade Federation? Remember, it was a few dedicated Naboo fighter pilots who stopped them.

No comment.

Did I say individual planets couldn't coordinate a response to maniacs like those? I never said that; they can for all I care; what I oppose is an unconditional, mandatory government structure like the Republic forced on planets.

Individual planets can't compete with the efficiency of a coordinated galactic state. I agree that membership shouldn't be mandatory, but on the other hand it shouldn't be a loose coalition that has no real unity. Electoral reforms are clearly in order, thats all.

The Galactic Republic was necessary however, in light of the alternatives (anarchy or empire). Anarchy is bad!

Indeed, and I never understood why no one seemed to have a problem with cloning people just to send them into battle as cannon fodder.

Anarchy is bad!
Tell that to the guy who posted below you

Tell that to the guy who posted below you

I've given up on that by now. No sense :headbang: on only one wall...

well if the Republic is using the UN as its creative origins, history can show us a little of why the Republic lasted as long as it did. Being part of the UN gives certain Economic advantages to countries involved. China is a prime example. The UN is still talking about selling the Chinese gov. Weapons and military Tech. Same could be applied to the Republic. Being part of it would be good for a planet because it gives you trade advantages. Small backwater planets will stay in the Republic for protection, not because they agree with the moral or political objectives of the Republic as a whole. Plenty of countries do that now, particularly former Soviet Block countries that are trying like mad to get in.

Indeed, and I never understood why no one seemed to have a problem with cloning people just to send them into battle as cannon fodder.
This could be because it was an easy plot device to use for the war, or we may not be understanding the full galactic political situation. After all, concidering the thousands of species out there, it is a safe bet that they wouldnt all share the same moral ideals. And since it was all Human clones dying, what would a Rigelian (made up name) care?

This could be because it was an easy plot device to use for the war, or we may not be understanding the full galactic political situation. After all, concidering the thousands of species out there, it is a safe bet that they wouldnt all share the same moral ideals. And since it was all Human clones dying, what would a Rigelian (made up name) care?
It was humans because they were cloned from Jango Fett, who was human - I'd guess that gene splicing Fett's clones to create the ultimate being would push viewer's suspension of disbelief a bit to far if you ask me.

Indeed, its truley unfortunate that the STAR WARS movies used the Separatists as just one of your typical 'evil enemies'. All of the Seppies in the movie are fighting against the Republic because they want power d whatnot. I'm surprised there havn't been more civil wars in the past against the Republic, considering how corrupt it is! I mean, just on Coruscant, millions (if not billions) of people fester in a barbaric, lawless society, without so much as tear shed by the Senate, while Senators while away the days idly debating, and their nights living luxuriously in wealth. Multiply that by the thousands of worlds in the Republic, and really, there is plenty of reason to seceed!

On another note: I can't believe that not a single Jedi did not realize this corruption, and speak out against it...

Well the last movie did point out that as the Dark Side gained power the jedi's ability to sense the force with percision was diminished. Just like how we have people who can't tell that the corruption of the Senators actually represents the corruption of the Senators not the corruption of an organization that has never had any power or authority to begin with. And we've handed more and more power over to an evil authoritarian ruler in the name of security even though he isn't actually giving us any, and just like Palpatine, he has an evil cyborg of prodigous mental powers as his side kick.

well if the Republic is using the UN as its creative origins, history can show us a little of why the Republic lasted as long as it did. Being part of the UN gives certain Economic advantages to countries involved. China is a prime example. The UN is still talking about selling the Chinese gov. Weapons and military Tech. Same could be applied to the Republic. Being part of it would be good for a planet because it gives you trade advantages. Small backwater planets will stay in the Republic for protection, not because they agree with the moral or political objectives of the Republic as a whole. Plenty of countries do that now, particularly former Soviet Block countries that are trying like mad to get in.

Well it is EU not UN that is talking about selling China weapon, Un can only just put economic sanction on other countries if the very drasticly have broken international rules or human rights, put they can't do it on China because it is a so powerfall country.

If we go to the starwars univers, you would have needed a central galactic organisation representing the whole galaxy, but you would also need regional and subregional organisation that took care of most of the interplanet affairs. For example that central level you decide on basic right for intilligent beings, see to that it is peace between regions and support and cordinate regions. There the regions take care of problems like trade, shipping routs, upholdment and maybee writing more stronge bill of risght and upholding the peace.

I dont usually uncork the Geek Bottle, but since this is a Star Wars thread...
.You asked for it.

First off, No the Jedi Civil Wars are NOT "Canon".

The only things that are, are the Movies, as those are written by Lucas himself.
Anything else is refered to as "EU" or Extended Universe.
This entails, any books, comics, etc..

If it didnt happen in the movies, it didnt technically happen.

The Old Republic fell becuase after 10,000 generations, it had become weak and innefective.
This was shown by the Senates innability to cease the attacks on Naboo, and the powerlessness to affect the Trade Federation.

The Corruption was indeed sensed by many Jedi, but being able so sense this, and take decisive action against it, are two different things.
What could a Jedi do, scan the crowds minds and kill all of the corrupt ones?

No...thats just not what Jedi do.

Ideally, such a government of systems, would align for mutal defense, and prosperity through trade.
Sadly, it seems that greed isnt just a human emotion, and people tend to desire money over peace, and goodwill to thier other planetary neighbors.

How could a Government settle disputes between planets, without compromising Planetary Soverignity?

Jedi.

Youve heard the old addage "For thousands of years, the Jedi were the Guardians of Peace and Justice througout the Galaxy."

Thats what this means.

The Senate would make a decision, and the Jedi would enforce it.
Since ideally, any decision that was made by the council would truly be in the best interest of a people wishing for peace, the Jedi, with thier strict codes, were the perfect enforcers.

Realistically, there werent enough Jedi.
Hard to be a Galaxy Policeman, when you have less than 400 cops for an entire Galaxy.

So, why did The Republic collapse?

Too much Gridlock, and too much bickering, cuases too much inaction, when quick and decisive action is called for.
Thus baddies like Palpatine, were able to seize power, and eliminate the opposition, before anyone could stop them.

just an FYI
being from years on a scifi debate forum when it comes to starwars lucas has said video games are not cannon. the only things cannon are the movies and certain novels he approved. even the tech manual is one step down in the chain as only an "official" standing

the only scifi series that allowed alot of extensive out of the series cannon information was babylon 5 which included the tv series, comic, B5 wars game books(fluff material), novels etc... which is why they had a person(fiona avery) who held a specific position/job of continuity editor

A note: Jango wasn't human, he was mandilorian. And, while humans are considered poorly, mandilorians were outright despised and feared.

I've been asked to respond, so I will.

No the Galactic Republic was not necessary. Not in the least. However, air is not necessary either. Neither is food. Nor is NationStates. They are, on the other hand, preferrable to the alternative. The alternative to having air and food is death and the lack of NationStates would, in my opinion, simply cause the Universe to implode. The lack of the Galactic Republic would have led to literally millions of Inter-Planetary and Inter-Stellar wars on a scale that would make the wars of Earths history look like kids splashing in a pool in comparison. The economy of the Galaxy (If one could measure economy on a Galactic scale) would have been shockingly worse than it was with the Republics standard monetary unit and trade laws ensuring frequent exhcanged between different species, planets, and systems. The Republics laws banning slavery, preventing piracy, toppling dictators, and preventing genocide wouldn't exist. If The Knights of the Old Republic is accurate and considered canon, without the Republic the dominant power in the Galaxy would be the Hutts. The Hutts for Christs sake! A species whose entire way of life is crime on a Godfather scale without the tenderness that the Old Don had towards his family.

The Galactic Republic was not a Star Wars version of the UN, the UN is not a governemental body. They UN is a supervising body, overseing government. The Republic was a government. A voluntary government, membership was not necessary and you could leave at will (Which I think is a fallible policy. True, entrance should be completely voluntary, but I feel that you shouldn't be able to back out whenever you want). It was a government that prevented the invasion and annexation of thousands of planets (FYI: That translates to several billion, if not trillion, people) by the Sith, the Mandalorians, the Sith again, the Clonemasters (Going by the 'Expanded Universe' explanation of the Clone Wars) and countless others. It was a government that supported the Jedi Order, which were the Guardians of Peace and Justice, and who were just as vital in defeating said enemies. Looking beyond the Galactic scale, it also enforced local laws on individual planets whenever a problem arose that the local government couldn't deal with.

The Republic was not necessary, nothing in the Universe is necessary, but it was preferrable to the alternative.