NationStates Jolt Archive

Remember the slain on the fields of Europe and those who lived from those dark days and bloody battles to see a brighter day emerge from under cloud locked skies.

A simple memorial thread for those who died to achieve peace in Europe from 1939 to 1945

Dulce est decorum est, pro patria mori

Remember the victorious dead

I think we should remember the non-victorious dead as well.

Dulce est decorum est, pro patria mori

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

"Dulce et decorum" my bum!

Today is a day that everyone in the world should reflect on and try to avoid from ever happening again.

It is indeed a multi-valent phrase and your instinctive interpretation of the meaning behind my post, be it nationalistic, anti-war and sorrowful, curtly sarcastic or whatever, will tend to reflect your view of war. Therefore i felt that in a thread that was bound to raise differing opinions it was the best wat to placate every one, as long as you're aware of the plurality of meaning.
So yes, i do know the poem :p I love WWI poetry.

I think that WW2 is generally remembered in quite a bad way, I mean it was a bloody war that killed possibly as much as 75 million people(it depends who you count and what sources). Many just seem to honour the allied soldiers that died. I think that it should be remembered for what it really was, the naked brutality of man. Most victims were Soviet or Chinese(possibly as much as 30 million each, including people who starved to death because of the war).

We should not be honouring the dead, we should remember what can happen when nations clash, not only ww2 but every single war fought in the history of man. While ww2 has killed more people than any other war, the millions of people that have died and suffered must all be remembered.

The people who really are celebrating VE-day are Americans, Russians, and nations suffering from the war. As it is today, it seems that really about the ALLIED(read Western Allies) soldiers and the WESTERN europeans. Russians are forgotten in the bloodiest of conflicts. While I know that the Russians are having heck of a celebration, in the west it seems to be mainly about remembering America's part in the war(inflating the preposterous idea that the US saved the world) it was an alliance of nations(the USSR played the most important role, while the UK is often forgotten). The German soldiers fought for their country as much as the Soviet soldiers did, the Americans never actually fought for their country is the same sense yet they did(they never truly risked foreign occupation). Even if their cause was wrong(by general opinion), your average German wasn't a fierce racial supremacist and Nazi-diehard.

We shouldn't honour the dead as much as remember all that happened. The terror of our capabilities should be remembered. What is terrible today is that nations all but forget what should have been learned. In Israel/Palestine there is an inhuman war of terror fought(both sides using despicable methods) and we have seen genocide in Rwanda yet we fail to act.

I think the main reason why ww2 is so dear is that it was clear who was "bad" and who was "good". In ww1 there was no good guys or bad, in ww2 the allies did do terrible things(most notably the Soviets, but Westerners as well) but how many would even want to consider a German victory(well I do, but I love alternative history ;) )

Remember everything that was done, but do so to understand how dangerous war gets. I won't honour veterans(of neither side) I will just mourn the inhumanity suffered by humanity.