NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, I am going to try and tell you guys about an incident that hapened a month ago. I am going to try and tell it in a manor that doesnt get the thread deleted or my account banned.... Last time I tried the thread got deleted in 2 seconds.

1) I dont really like gay people. It makes me uncomfortable to see two guy kissing ect. But I realize that this is MY problem. The fact that it makes me physically ill is a problem I have to deal with, not them.

2) Whatever people feel(pro and con) towards alternative lifestyles, is no ones business. People should be allowed to live whatever lives they choose to. It isnt the place of some person or govt or religion to dictate how a person should live their life.

3) Some thing that some gay people do really freaks me out. I have no idea if this is indicative of the the community or not, but it really freaks me out.

a) I know a guy(gay) who gets a kick out of getting straight guys really drunk/drugged up and then having sex with them. He specifically targets straight guys at clubs. Other than that, he is a decent enough person.

b) some freak tried to kiss me. I had a party for my birthday, and around 1-2 am I was taking a nap. I woke up to see that some guy(I didnt invite him) was holding my hand. And then he tried to make out with me. What the hell is that all about???? If I wasnt the host, I would have decked him. What right did he have to pull that sort of shit?

If a guy had done that to a girl, she could have screamed sexual abuse to the police.

Are these types of behaviour supposed to make straight people think better of gay people?

I used to think that they had a cause, and now all I think about is this freak who tried to kiss me. I keep thinking I should have hit him. My partner says that we should have beat the shit out of him, the police here would not have made an issue.

I am asking for your opinion.

Is this the same as a guy trying to make out with a girl who is unwilling? I know that if a girl I wasnt interested in tried to force herself on me I would say no, but it wouldnt trouble me the way this incident did.


To the mods.

This isnt PC, I know.

I am not trolling, I and not flaming. At least this isnt my intention. I realize that NS is very PC, but I am only expressing an opinion on events that happened. This is what free speech is about. I think that I should be able to express my views, as distastefull as they may appear to you, with regards to gay people and my opinions of them.

Sexual Assualt is Sexual Assult. Call the cops.

Is this the same as a guy trying to make out with a girl who is unwilling?
Yes. Both are wrong, and most likely illegal.

Yes. Both are wrong, and most likely illegal.
I agree. If he did hit the guy that may count as a so-called "hate crime". But the fact fo the matter is assault=assault and thats the bottom line as you said.

a) I know a guy(gay) who gets a kick out of getting straight guys really drunk/drugged up and then having sex with them. He specifically targets straight guys at clubs. Other than that, he is a decent enough person.

b) some freak tried to kiss me. I had a party for my birthday, and around 1-2 am I was taking a nap. I woke up to see that some guy(I didnt invite him) was holding my hand. And then he tried to make out with me. What the hell is that all about???? If I wasnt the host, I would have decked him. What right did he have to pull that sort of shit?

If a guy had done that to a girl, she could have screamed sexual abuse to the police.

Are these types of behaviour supposed to make straight people think better of gay people?

I used to think that they had a cause, and now all I think about is this freak who tried to kiss me. I keep thinking I should have hit him. My partner says that we should have beat the shit out of him*, the police here would not have made an issue.

I am asking for your opinion.

Is this the same as a guy trying to make out with a girl who is unwilling? I know that if a girl I wasnt interested in tried to force herself on me I would say no, but it wouldnt trouble me the way this incident did.


First of all, I congratulate you on overcoming your hate enough to post your question and issue politely and ask your question civilly. I understand how hard that can be. My opinion is likely moot, but your post should NOT be banned.

Secondly, when you say things like * above, realize that "friend" would have been a better choice of words as "partner" is easily construed as gayspeak for "lover".

Lastly, the issue of unwanted affection IS THE SAME REGARDLESS OF ORIENTATION. Would you hit a girl you didn't care for if she tried to move in on you while you were sleeping? I hope not. Attraction works the same for any orientation, and there are people who act on it well, and those who are incosiderate jackasses who don't understand personal boundaries or take hints...even big, neon-lighted hints. The guy you know who gets straights drunk and tries to bed them is no better (OR WORSE) than the guy who does it to women. They're BOTH assholes and while they shouldn't be beaten for their indiscretion (though I understand that urge completely), they need to be identified and told without equivocation that what they're doing is reprehansible and wrong.

I hope that helps.

It isnt the place of govt to dictate how a person should live their life.
???
yes it is

a) I know a guy(gay) who gets a kick out of getting straight guys really drunk/drugged up and then having sex with them. He specifically targets straight guys at clubs. Other than that, he is a decent enough person.When I read this through the first time, I had to snicker at this part. I immediately compared it to the following invented statement:
a) I know a guy who gets a kick out of getting women really drunk/drugged up and then having sex with them. Other than that, he is a decent enough person.In my opinion, gender and sexual orientation are immaterial; if it's not consentual, then don't do it.

b) some freak tried to kiss me. I had a party for my birthday, and around 1-2 am I was taking a nap. I woke up to see that some guy(I didnt invite him) was holding my hand. And then he tried to make out with me. What the hell is that all about???? If I wasnt the host, I would have decked him. What right did he have to pull that sort of shit?

If a guy had done that to a girl, she could have screamed sexual abuse to the police.

Are these types of behaviour supposed to make straight people think better of gay people?

I used to think that they had a cause, and now all I think about is this freak who tried to kiss me. I keep thinking I should have hit him. My partner says that we should have beat the shit out of him, the police here would not have made an issue.

I am asking for your opinion.

Is this the same as a guy trying to make out with a girl who is unwilling? I know that if a girl I wasnt interested in tried to force herself on me I would say no, but it wouldnt trouble me the way this incident did.Violence isn't a solution (unless he keep trying to grab you, or something). In your position, I would have shown him the door and told him to leave.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

...

To the mods.

This isnt PC, I know.No, it's not politically correct. It's also not relevant to Moderation decisions.

I am not trolling, I and not flaming. At least this isnt my intention.Your manner in this topic backs this up. I agree.

I realize that NS is very PC, but I am only expressing an opinion on events that happened. This is what free speech is about. I think that I should be able to express my views, as distastefull as they may appear to you, with regards to gay people and my opinions of them.
As long as you're civil about how you express your views, you are in compliance with NationStates rules.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

???
yes it is

I would disagree.

I agree. If he did hit the guy that may count as a so-called "hate crime". But the fact fo the matter is assault=assault and thats the bottom line as you said.

I didnt hit the guy. I just said " what the fuck are you doing" and I got up and walked away.

Its been a month now, and I cant get the episode out of my head. Some ******* guy tried to kiss me. I have fantasies about beating him to a pulp and then telling the police that he is a fag. He wouldnt survive more than a few days in this country's prison system.

It is because of people like this that I think poorly of the whole.....however they want to clasify themselves.

Two things I'd like to point out before I reply;

01) I'm a gay man
02) I don't speak for anyone other than myself here

I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences. That is a select group of Gay men, and they're not highly regarded in the community. I'm not asking you to change your mind. I'll be honest with you, I can't really be around seterotypical gay men. They made me feel very dirty through association. :headbang: Try to think of it from the other side of the coin though. You're hitting on some girl, she hasn't said she likes you, she hasn't said she doesn't like you. You think she's beautiful, and want to persue her. The natural course of things would eventually lead you into an intimate situation. Now that you have her alone, and you think you're getting lucky, she tells you she's a lesbian.

You may just give off a gay vibe, or happen to be very attractive. I agree that the boys you had your experiences with were wrong doing what they did...but you can never be sure of anyone's sexuality other than your own. :D

What I think? You've run into a jerk (the first one) and into a scumbag (the second one). And, yeah, well, so?

Are these types of behaviour supposed to make straight people think better of gay people?

Are you seriously expecting us gay people to apologise for what these two losers did? Since when do they have anything to do with me? Do you go around excusing yourself to women for all the straight men who are jerks?

Well, I could easily say that it's because of people like the KKK that I think poorly of Americans. Or that it's because of people like the Taliban that I think poorly of Muslims. Or that it's because of people like the cannibalistic bands in the Congo who go around chopping people up and raping children that I think poorly of Africans. But I don't say that, because I don't think that, because it's a stupid thing to make generalizations about huge groups of people based on the worst examples of them.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're from one of the Southern US states due to what you said about the cops not caring and other things. Is this correct?

What I think? You've run into a jerk (the first one) and into a scumbag (the second one). And, yeah, well, so?

Are these types of behaviour supposed to make straight people think better of gay people?

Are you seriously expecting us gay people to apologise for what these two losers did? Since when do they have anything to do with me? Do you go around excusing yourself to women for all the straight men who are jerks?
Fass has a good point. Don't generalize.

Its been a month now, and I cant get the episode out of my head. Some ******* guy tried to kiss me. I have fantasies about beating him to a pulp and then telling the police that he is a fag.

Well, good for you for not hitting him. Well played.

However, if it's been a month and you still can't get over it, the problem is squarely yours. It's likely the inconsiderate boor who tried to get lucky with you has long since forgotten it. Why can't you? Is it because that way deep down, you're afraid you might possibly be gay? That you might have liked it? That the way you've been societally trained, "fags" are just plain evil and need to be exterminated, but you're still curious?

I'm not trying to provoke you, but come on -- if it had been the unwanted girl I mentioned earlier, would you still be obsessing about it? And make no mistake, still feeling rage enough to imagine mauling another person a month later IS obsessing.

I suggest counseling, though my advice is worth exactly the cost of the electricity it takes to generate, send and display. You've got a lot to think about.

I suggest counseling, though my advice is worth exactly the cost of the electricity it takes to generate, send and display. You've got a lot to think about.

I wonder how much that actually is...? Would be interesting to know.

Well said, Fass. By the way...


Do you go around excusing yourself to women for all the straight men who are jerks?

..actually, I do this. Not all the time, but when it's appropriate and will be appreciated for the humorous mood-lightener it's intended to be.

[my opinion]There are guys, and there are men; there are chicks, and there are women. In both cases the former are stereotypically annoying whether it be pawing on their object of desire and being lewd and boorish (guys) or being catty, shallow and materialistic (chicks).[/my opinion] That's why I have a decal (transfer, for all the UKers) on my rear windshield that reads "CHICKS HATE ME." Because I'm no fan of the stereotypical chick.

Do you go around excusing yourself to women for all the straight men who are jerks?Well.... That's an idea for a publicity stunt! :D

/me imagines himself wearing a "Male Penitence Association" uniform shirt and walking up to a woman.

"Good Morning, Madam, my name is Cogitation and I'm with the Male Penitence Association. On the behalf of all men everywhere, I'd like to personally apologize for all of the jerks who have taken you out on bad dates, catcalled you, copped a feel, directed unwelcome lewd jokes at you, insulted you, cheated you, or hit you. I'm trying to mend the unfortunate perceptions and stereotypes of men in our society and I hope that you'll realize that there are men out there who are worthy of your attention. I wish you luck in looking for them."

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

???
yes it isI would disagree.I would strongly disagree. Everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want provided such things do not infringe on the rights of others.

I have been hit on, sometimes agressively, on occasion. Usually that is when I have been out with some GLBT friends to a "gay bar" (don't go to those by myself as a rule).

Response #1: "Thanks for the compliment, but I bat for the other team."
Responses #2&3 come from my friends (who support my right to choose, as I them)
Response #4 comes from Security or the Police.

NONE of my GLBT friends or aquaintances would be so boorish as to touch without permission.

You need some new friends.

I would strongly disagree. Everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want provided such things do not infringe on the rights of others.

but if they aren't controlled people will do things that will slow down the progress of the government. an example would be if people aren't required to fight for their government, they won't likly join the army. and also, unnatural things are immoral.

i won't continue cause this isn't a thread about size of government.

First of all, I congratulate you on overcoming your hate enough to post your question and issue politely and ask your question civilly. I understand how hard that can be. My opinion is likely moot, but your post should NOT be banned.


Thank you. It isnt easy. I am embarressed to tell anyone. I told my partner(thats business partner, he is married) but that is because we have been friends for years. I cant even tell my parents. Its been a month now nd I keep thinking about having it arranged to have this guy beaten up badly. I keep dreaming about it, and I realize how childish it would be to do so.


Secondly, when you say things like * above, realize that "friend" would have been a better choice of words as "partner" is easily construed as gayspeak for "lover".

Uhh, I guess. I am reffering to my business partner. He is married.


Lastly, the issue of unwanted affection IS THE SAME REGARDLESS OF ORIENTATION. Would you hit a girl you didn't care for if she tried to move in on you while you were sleeping? I hope not. Attraction works the same for any orientation, and there are people who act on it well, and those who are incosiderate jackasses who don't understand personal boundaries or take hints...even big, neon-lighted hints. The guy you know who gets straights drunk and tries to bed them is no better (OR WORSE) than the guy who does it to women. They're BOTH assholes and while they shouldn't be beaten for their indiscretion (though I understand that urge completely), they need to be identified and told without equivocation that what they're doing is reprehansible and wrong.


No, it isnt the same. I have been hit on by girls I want interested in. At worst it served only to stroke my ego. This thing troubled me though. It still troubles me. I fantasize about having this ******** piece of garbage catch a severe beating. I cant even tell people I do business with that this happened because they would expect me to arrange for this person to enter a world of hurt. I am half tempted.

Why dont people like this just go and hit on other gay people? What possible reason is there for them to hit on straight people? Now I have to do things that I really dont want to do. If other people find out, then I have to at least attempt some violence on this person, if only to maintain my business standing.

I realize that NS is very PC, but I am only expressing an opinion on events that happened. This is what free speech is about. I think that I should be able to express my views, as distastefull as they may appear to you, with regards to gay people and my opinions of them.

You have no right to Free Speech on the internet. It is solely up to the moderators whether or not to kick and ban you from the site, for any reason at any time.

Dude, it doesn't help your position to constantly be calling this guy a "piece of garbage" and other offensive things. I can see your point, it was unwanted affection, but you're taking it too far. You said if a girl you're not interested in hits on you, it helps your ego. Why wouldn't it help if a gay man did too? I'm just saying, it's still someone that finds you attractive. And taking the law into your own hands by beating this guy up is a stupid, primitive idea. If you really felt so bad you should have informed the police or something like that. But please, nobody wants to hear about how you want to beat up a gay guy.

No, it isnt the same. I have been hit on by girls I want interested in. At worst it served only to stroke my ego. This thing troubled me though. It still troubles me. I fantasize about having this ******** piece of garbage catch a severe beating. I cant even tell people I do business with that this happened because they would expect me to arrange for this person to enter a world of hurt. I am half tempted.

Why dont people like this just go and hit on other gay people? What possible reason is there for them to hit on straight people? Now I have to do things that I really dont want to do. If other people find out, then I have to at least attempt some violence on this person, if only to maintain my business standing.

I think it's interesting that what seems to be causing you the most problems from this is your own and your society's homophobia. And that is no gay person's fault.

What I think? You've run into a jerk (the first one) and into a scumbag (the second one). And, yeah, well, so?

Are these types of behaviour supposed to make straight people think better of gay people?

Are you seriously expecting us gay people to apologise for what these two losers did? Since when do they have anything to do with me? Do you go around excusing yourself to women for all the straight men who are jerks?


Actually, the first guy is a decent enough chap. He talks a lot about the things he does in clubs, but I have never seen it. And he behaves like anybody else, well..except that he is into guys. And a pretend lisp.

The other guy deserves a severe beat down I think. I should have smacked him. But I am in a new town, it was my first party here .... Fucking ass. an uninvited guest shouldnt pull shit like he did.

I am expecting you normal gay people to call this type of behaviour what it is... extremely obnoxious.

I would also like to point out that just like fundamental christians give religion a bad name, so do freaks like this give homosexuals a bad name. It is people like this that make people like me irrationally HATE all gays.

and also, unnatural things are immoral.so you still live in a tree and refuse to use technology? what the hell are you doing on the internet anyway? computers aren't 'natural' either :rolleyes:

Sadly the sodomites will do things like this. Its in their nature to be promiscuos and perverted.

Why dont people like this just go and hit on other gay people? What possible reason is there for them to hit on straight people? Now I have to do things that I really dont want to do. If other people find out, then I have to at least attempt some violence on this person, if only to maintain my business standing.

Okay, let's try this.

Can you tell what religion someone is before you walk up and start talking to them? I mean, besides the guy wearing the turban/yarmulke or the woman in a chador/burkha (but even then, it could be something else). Yet you could very easily walk up to someone who was, say, Mormon, and make a joke about Utah or polygamy or some other stereotype and not realize you were really hurting them or at least being very rude.

OR, have you ever walked up to hit on a woman without seeing the ring on the left hand (forgetting, for this example, that some women wear one there to discourage such encounters), or without knowing they were otherwise taken? How could you know?

Similarly, without external clues like a "God hates fags" shirt on, no gay man will know you're not gay just by looking at you. Let me reiterate what others have said, but louder: YOU GOT UNWANTED ATTENTION FROM AN IMPOLITE INDIVIDUAL -- NOT THE ENTIRE GAY COMMUNITY. A man who hits on an eligible woman aggrssively but breaks no law or in any way harms the woman DOES NOT deserve a beating, and neither does a gay man who has no way of knowing who is or isn't fair game in a crowded bar or party.

Seriously, you need to let this go. Your continued obsession over it is psychologically pathogenic. Talk to someone (bringing it here is a decent first step) like a counselor or therapist. It doesn't mean you're unbalanced because you don't like the idea of homosexuals hitting on you. It DOES, however, mean you're becoming unbalanced if all you can do is plot an assault because ONE PERSON was a little aggressive in going after what he wanted.

I get hit on by gay men sometimes, and I've hit on lesbians before. One woman I approached was wearing a shirt that read "flirt" -- I walked up and asked if that was a label or a command (clever, I thought) and she politely and gently let me know that she preferred women. We had a laugh and a great conversation for about 20 minutes. Nobody's feelings were hurt and I got to know a very nice person. All in all, not bad for me.

Nobody is forcing you to accept something abhorrent to you, rather we suggest you not beat someone up for something so trivial. You're probably an attractive man who takes care of himself. Not all gay men take that as a sign of gayness, but some do -- I am flattered by the times I'm hit on by gay men despite never ever wanting to have gay sex. It says to me that I'm doing something right in the grooming/clothing department. Hell, you can even use it as a bonus when trying to chat up straight women if you work it in well.

Please seek counseling for your anger -- other than that, live your own life and relax a bit.

I think it's interesting that what seems to be causing you the most problems from this is your own and your society's homophobia. And that is no gay person's fault.

It is his fault for doing things that no one else would do.

1) I am not gay
2) even if I was, what right does it give him to hold my hand and try to make out with me when I am waking up? I dont even know who the hell he is. I only found out later who invited him. Do you think it would be okay if I tried to force myself on some random girl who was passed out and was waking up? Honestly, the thing he did instills so much anger in me. I want to do violence on his person and in my entire life I have never felt like that before. Not only do I want to do violence on him, I want to do violence on everyone like him. I HATE feeling this way. I hate thinking about violence.

I am expecting you normal gay people to call this type of behaviour what it is... extremely obnoxious.

How many of us "normal gay people" would have to do that? Just me? Or a few more? Or some representative from every country? Or just some gay people from India?

I've already said that what happened to you was a really shitty thing. Does it make you feel better?

I would also like to point out that just like fundamental christians give religion a bad name, so do freaks like this give homosexuals a bad name. It is people like this that make people like me irrationally HATE all gays.

Oh, no. Nobody makes you hate. You do that all on your own. Don't blame anyone else.

It is his fault for doing things that no one else would do.

Yes, but your reaction is your own doing.

1) I am not gay
2) even if I was, what right does it give him to hold my hand and try to make out with me when I am waking up? I dont even know who the hell he is. I only found out later who invited him. Do you think it would be okay if I tried to force myself on some random girl who was passed out and was waking up?

No it would not. But do you think it would be fair to demand anything of you for the things other straight men do?

Honestly, the thing he did instills so much anger in me. I want to do violence on his person and in my entire life I have never felt like that before. Not only do I want to do violence on him, I want to do violence on everyone like him. I HATE feeling this way. I hate thinking about violence.

Then don't. Really, it's really worrying that this has made you react in such a manner. Counselling might be an option, because your reaction is indicative of some deeper trauma.

As I said earlier, nobody makes you hate. You do that all on your own.

Its been a month now, and I cant get the episode out of my head. Some ******* guy tried to kiss me. I have fantasies about beating him to a pulp and then telling the police that he is a fag. He wouldnt survive more than a few days in this country's prison system.

I haven't gone far enough along in the thread to see if this has been specifically dealt with by someone else, but I'm going to comment anyhow ...

You might want to ask yourself what you are really angry about here. I mean, you've admitted that you wouldn't be quite that angry if it was a woman who did pulled that ... at least not angry enough to "beat her to a pulp." I'm guessing (and this may appear inflammatory, but it's not intended that way) that a women hitting on you affirms your sense of masculinity while a gay man hitting on you threatens it. Are you sure there is not some part of you, at least subconsciously, that is reflecting back that maybe a gay man hitting on you is a symptom of your possibly being a bit "feminine" and not manly enough? I am not suggesting that this is actually the case, but that maybe subconsciously you think that it's true and therefore is making you want to strike back.

And btw, I doubt he would only last day a few days in prison. Lots of men in prison have sex with other men.

Commando3']Sadly the sodomites will do things like this. Its in their nature to be promiscuos[sic] and perverted.

I don't care if my post is deleted for flaming.

Commando, I am sick to the teeth of your pointless, bigoted, unsupported, generalizing and ugly-spirited claptrap. Your debating vessels are constantly flawed and never hold water, so you resort to spam like that to piss people off and probably pat yourself on the back for "stirring things up".

I know nothing whatsoever about you, but the POSTS of yours I've seen in the one month I've been here are asninine, childish and reflect very poorly on you and whatever faith you possess.

I'm not even going to refute your drivel because it refutes itself, and I've already refuted positions like yours too solidly and too many times to ever want to point out ignorance and stupidity again.

Yes, you have a right to your opinion, and I'm exercising my right to inform you that it's toilet paper. And not even the good, soft, fluffy kind -- I'm talkin' the industrial rest-stop one-ply sandpaper kind.

Similarly, without external clues like a "God hates fags" shirt on, no gay man will know you're not gay just by looking at you. Let me reiterate what others have said, but louder: YOU GOT UNWANTED ATTENTION FROM AN IMPOLITE INDIVIDUAL -- NOT THE ENTIRE GAY COMMUNITY. A man who hits on an eligible woman aggrssively but breaks no law or in any way harms the woman DOES NOT deserve a beating, and neither does a gay man who has no way of knowing who is or isn't fair game in a crowded bar or party.
.

Clearly I didnt present this properly or you are refusing to understand. I went to NYU and I lived in the village for a number of years. I have been hit on by gay guys a bunch of times, its no big deal. Guy flirts with you, you make it clear that you arent into it(for whatever reason) and it ends there. No big deal. That is miles away from what happened in this situation. The flaming fag tried to force himself on me. This is the issue. It isnt a question of whether he thought I was gay or not, or interested or not, he didnt care. How dare he! What a fool I am for not putting him in the hospital. At the very least I should have called the cops and told them he was gay. They would have had a little party with him till monday when the judge showed up.

Actually, the first guy is a decent enough chap. He talks a lot about the things he does in clubs, but I have never seen it. And he behaves like anybody else, well..except that he is into guys. And a pretend lisp.

The other guy deserves a severe beat down I think. I should have smacked him. But I am in a new town, it was my first party here .... Fucking ass. an uninvited guest shouldnt pull shit like he did.

I am expecting you normal gay people to call this type of behaviour what it is... extremely obnoxious.

I would also like to point out that just like fundamental christians give religion a bad name, so do freaks like this give homosexuals a bad name. It is people like this that make people like me irrationally HATE all gays.
Dude, the problem, at this juncture, is not the boor, it's the irrationality?

Do you hate all Christians because of the fanatical freaks?
Do you hate all Liberals because of the THEIR fanatical freaks?
Would you begin an irrational hatred of Blacks/Hispanics simply beause you had been assaulted/robbed by one?
Would you begin an irrational hatred of Jews because because your sister married one and started cooking Kosher?
Would you begin an irrational hatred of all Semites/Arabs because of the Loony Jihadis?

You can hate the individual schmuck as much as you want, but the rest of the world is not that schmuck. Get over the irrationality - with professional help if necessary - or it will eat you up and make YOU the schmuck.

Edit: Apparantly we simulposted. Your above answers my inital posy.

HOWEVER, your statement that "it's people like this that make me irrationally hate all gays" still leads me to wonder.

For me, I dislike anyone who makes their lifestyle a political agenda - whether it is the chains & leather kook-squad flamers or the high-collar biblegebangen-poundenthumpers. There are "look at me" fanatics of all stripes, and they should be ignored into oblivion.

At this point, it is TOO LATE for you to do anything about the jerk who molested you. If you do, YOU will be the one in the wrong. Just don't let it happen again.

I've already said that what happened to you was a really shitty thing. Does it make you feel better?

.

yes

Commando3']Sadly the sodomites will do things like this. Its in their nature to be promiscuos and perverted.

I find it slightly amusing that you continue to call us "Sodomites" when in fact almost every man I've been with didn't particularly enjoy... sodomy.

To the poster of the thread: Innappropriate sexual harrassment is innappropriate sexual harrassment. Sexuality doesn't really come into play, not in the eyes of the law, afaik. It may have repulsed you more than if it was a woman coming onto you, but it's in reality no different. The guy can't justify his actions, and I commend you on attempting to rationalise it without resorting to assuming all homosexuals are like him. You think gay guys coming onto you is bad? Try being gay and having straight women coming onto you. Urgh, makes me feel all sick inside. :D

yes

It is a shallow betterment, if a betterment at that. Get help. This hate, it's not healthy.

Commando3']Sadly the sodomites will do things like this. Its in their nature to be promiscuos and perverted.

Oh, get out...

The thing with sodomites though is they show no morality. They run around having queer sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.

Dude, the problem, at this juncture, is not the boor, it's the irrationality?

Do you hate all Christians because of the fanatical freaks?
Do you hate all Liberals because of the THEIR fanatical freaks?
Would you begin an irrational hatred of Blacks/Hispanics simply beause you had been assaulted/robbed by one?
Would you begin an irrational hatred of Jews because because your sister married one and started cooking Kosher?
Would you begin an irrational hatred of all Semites/Arabs because of the Loony Jihadis?

You can hate the individual schmuck as much as you want, but the rest of the world is not that schmuck. Get over the irrationality - with professional help if necessary - or it will eat you up and make YOU the schmuck.

What do you want me to say? I wish I had forgotten about it already. But I havent. Certainly worse things have happened in my life that I have forgotton about. I cant seam to get this out of my head though

It is his fault for doing things that no one else would do.

"No one else?" You're kidding, right? So you've NEVER ONCE heard of someone taking advantage of a half-conscious or unconscious woman? That's not okay no matter who does it -- singling out the gay man reflects on you.

1) I am not gay

Beyond irrelevant.

2) even if I was, what right does it give him to hold my hand and try to make out with me when I am waking up? I dont even know who the hell he is.

I'm tired of repeating myself, but...it gives him NO right, just like no woman would have had the right to do that to you. You just feel threatened by the man and flattered by the woman. Again, this reflects on you.

Do you think it would be okay if I tried to force myself on some random girl who was passed out and was waking up?

Aarrgh! NO, NO, NO!!! It would NOT be okay, but would the girl be plotting a beating for you and fantasizing an assault on you for A MONTH afterward? This is YOUR problem now. LET IT GO. You're not somehow "less of a man" and you have not contracted any "gayness" from this incident. Is THAT what you want to hear? Are you SO completely insecure with your sexuality that only spilling this one inconsiderate individual's blood is going to somehow make you "more of a man"? Let me answer that for you -- it won't. It'll make you a criminal. What this guy did was NOT criminal, merely inappropriate. If unwanted advances were criminal, there'd be EXPONENTIALLY more heterosexual men in jail than any other gender/orientation, I promise you (half the time, we heteros don't even know we're being inappropriate).

Honestly, the thing he did instills so much anger in me. I want to do violence on his person and in my entire life I have never felt like that before. Not only do I want to do violence on him, I want to do violence on everyone like him. I HATE feeling this way. I hate thinking about violence.

Then address yourself. Nobody can MAKE you feel anything -- YOU instilled the anger in yourself and refuse to let it go because it somehow makes you feel manly and superior to "fags". You have earned my pity, and I don't give that away cheap.

Commando3']The thing with Straights though is they show no morality. They run around having straight sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.

Agreed.

Commando3']The thing with sodomites though is they show no morality. They run around having queer sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.

The thing about Fanatics (such as yourself) is that they show no morality. They run around telling everyone they're wrong, without ever showing why. They do not help the general welfare (by not being taxed) and have been known to even hurt children.

Commando3']The thing with sodomites though is they show no morality. They run around having queer sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.

Two Questions.

1. You have any idea how blissfully ignorant you sound?
2. Do you LIKE to piss people off?

It is a shallow betterment, if a betterment at that. Get help. This hate, it's not healthy.

Oh please!!! Grow up. This isnt consuming my life. I wish it didnt happen, but that is no biggie. My opinion of homosexuals is lessened, but that also is no biggie. It isnt like I am going to track this person down. It happened, its over, he is an ass, I think less of gay people, life moves on.

What do you want me to say? I wish I had forgotten about it already. But I havent. Certainly worse things have happened in my life that I have forgotton about. I cant seam to get this out of my head though

As others have suggested, maybe you need to seek therapy like many other people who have been sexually violated. Your anger is warranted if you felt you were assaulted, but leaving yourself unglued like this is not safe for you or for others.

The flaming fag tried to force himself on me. This is the issue. It isnt a question of whether he thought I was gay or not, or interested or not, he didnt care. How dare he! What a fool I am for not putting him in the hospital. At the very least I should have called the cops and told them he was gay. They would have had a little party with him till monday when the judge showed up.

I think attempting to steal a kiss or cop a feel and "forcing himself on you" are two VERY different things. A hetero woman should slap the offender for the former and call the cops for the latter. If this guy wasn't physically on top of you and attempting to initiate sex, then I welcome you to the Earth-sized club of hetero women who have been being pinched, felt-up and attempted to be kissed against their will for millennia.

Now there's equality.

Nothing you posted justifies assault. Get over it. Get help.

What do you want me to say? I wish I had forgotten about it already. But I havent. Certainly worse things have happened in my life that I have forgotton about. I cant seam to get this out of my head though
What "I want" you to say is that, with the exception of the CommandoTroll, we here at NS want you to get help overcomming this anger. We will help you as best we can, but it might need more than that.

By understanding that the inability to put aside the memory of the event is irrational, you have shown yourself to be an excellent candidate for successful therapy. You have every right to hate what happened, but it is unhealthy to not move past it. It will be a painful memory always, but it cannot be allowed to control your life.

Good luck.

I think attempting to steal a kiss or cop a feel and "forcing himself on you" are two VERY different things. A hetero woman should slap the offender for the former and call the cops for the latter. If this guy wasn't physically on top of you and attempting to initiate sex, then I welcome you to the Earth-sized club of hetero women who have been being pinched, felt-up and attempted to be kissed against their will for millennia.

Now there's equality.
Heh. :p

Maybe I'm just weird, but I've always considered "attempting to steal a kiss or cop a feel" by a gay guy to be a compliment on my appearance and physique. (That or too much booze... ;) )

Attempting to persist after I polietly (i.e. "just what the hell do you think you're doing?!?") say NO however is a good way to get broken right then and there.

Its been a month now, and I cant get the episode out of my head.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

It's a lot nicer outside the closet, you know.

Okay, I am going to try and tell you guys about an incident that hapened a month ago. I am going to try and tell it in a manor that doesnt get the thread deleted or my account banned.... Last time I tried the thread got deleted in 2 seconds.

I am very glad you tried again in a civil manner -- for many reasons.

I caught a short glimpse of your post before. It did deserve to get deleted.

But my heart went out to you for your trauma. And I wanted to help you seek help if you need it.

And I also wanted to correct some fallacies in your thinking about this.

1) I dont really like gay people. It makes me uncomfortable to see two guy kissing ect. But I realize that this is MY problem. The fact that it makes me physically ill is a problem I have to deal with, not them.

It is unfortunate you have those feelings. Perhaps they will change over time. With all honestly and sympathy, I wonder if there are underlying causes you might wish to look into with a therapist. NOT because they are anti-PC but because they cause you distress and may be symptoms of larger issues.

I admire your ability to overcome your feelings and see them as your issue. Not many could. I'd like to say I could, but that is easier than doing.

2) Whatever people feel(pro and con) towards alternative lifestyles, is no ones business. People should be allowed to live whatever lives they choose to. It isnt the place of some person or govt or religion to dictate how a person should live their life.

Again, very admirable given your feelings and your trauma.

Of course, I agree. But I also salute you.

3) Some thing that some gay people do really freaks me out. I have no idea if this is indicative of the the community or not, but it really freaks me out.

It is not indicative of the gay or lesbian community.

Rape and sexual assault occur across gender and sexual orientation lines.

a) I know a guy(gay) who gets a kick out of getting straight guys really drunk/drugged up and then having sex with them. He specifically targets straight guys at clubs. Other than that, he is a decent enough person.

Whether he or his victims are straight, homosexual, or otherwise, it sounds like rape.

It sounds like he is a rapist. Plain and simple. Not decent. Criminal, degenerate who violates others.

b) some freak tried to kiss me. I had a party for my birthday, and around 1-2 am I was taking a nap. I woke up to see that some guy(I didnt invite him) was holding my hand. And then he tried to make out with me. What the hell is that all about???? If I wasnt the host, I would have decked him. What right did he have to pull that sort of shit?

He had no right whatsoever.

Some people do not respect other people's boundaries. That is wrong.

Holding one's hand is not a particularly serious violation of another's body or will. But it is not appropriate and can be criminal.

I do not wish to press you for details on what "tried to make out with me" means. Depending, it may have been wrong and/or criminal. It was obviously unwanted and sounds reprehensible.

I'd like to think the person was just attracted to you and tried to express that. That it could be flattering. But it sounds like it went too far. And regardless, you have every right to be upset and feel about it how you like.

If a guy had done that to a girl, she could have screamed sexual abuse to the police.

Sexual assault does not depend on the gender of either party.

Sexual assualt is sexual assault. Rape is rape.

Are these types of behaviour supposed to make straight people think better of gay people?

I understand your lashing out.

But these types of behavior are not representative and are supposed to make anyone think better of anyone.

Most rapists are men. Should we hate men?

Most rapists are heterosexual -- including most rapists of other men. Should we hate heterosexuals.

I used to think that they had a cause, and now all I think about is this freak who tried to kiss me. I keep thinking I should have hit him. My partner says that we should have beat the shit out of him, the police here would not have made an issue.

I am asking for your opinion.

It is the least of the reasons why your trauma is saddening -- but it is saddening that this incident has caused you to have greater hostility towards gays.

Trying to kiss you someone who you know does not wish to be kissed is wrong.

But violence is not a particularly appropriate response.

With all due respect, your partner is wrong.

Is this the same as a guy trying to make out with a girl who is unwilling?

Exactly.

This is exactly the same as a man trying to make out with a woman who is unwilling.

I know that if a girl I wasnt interested in tried to force herself on me I would say no, but it wouldnt trouble me the way this incident did.

Understandable. For many reasons.

Logically there may be little difference. But logic is far from the alpha and omega of these situations.

I know that what happened to you was far from rape, but you might find these resources useful to think about anyway.

You also may wish to talk to someone that can offer support and guidance.

Male Sexual Abuse... (http://www.alltheseyears.net/male.htm)

National Center for Victims of Crime: Male Rape (http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32361)

I am sorry this happened to you. Best wishes.

I agree. If he did hit the guy that may count as a so-called "hate crime".

No. No, it would not.

Do we need to go over what hate crimes laws are again? If so, feel free to create a separate topic.

But the fact fo the matter is assault=assault and thats the bottom line as you said.

"Exactically!," said the Caterpillar.

Bah. Half the world's problems are caused by sexuality. Not just homosexuality, mind you, just sex, and lust for sex, in general.

Go asexuality! Whoo!

However, if it's been a month and you still can't get over it, the problem is squarely yours. It's likely the inconsiderate boor who tried to get lucky with you has long since forgotten it. Why can't you? Is it because that way deep down, you're afraid you might possibly be gay? That you might have liked it? That the way you've been societally trained, "fags" are just plain evil and need to be exterminated, but you're still curious?

Thank you, Dr. Armchair psychiatrist.

Show a little respect and sensitivity -- as you are asking from Isanyonehome.

Ever been raped or sexually assaulted? If you were, would you like to be told that if you didn't "get over it, the problem is squarely yours"?

If you don't like being assaulted by someone of the same gender, it is because you are a self-hating homosexual? How about you don't like being assaulted?

What Isanyonehome described/revealed may have been a relatively mild assault -- but who said there is a time limit by which you must "get over" such trauma or it's your fault?

Your advice re therapy is good.

Perhaps it would have been better if you hadn't buried in the mud you were throwing.

Just like to reiterate that sexual assualt is sexual assault regardless of gender and sexuality. I'm sorry for what happened to you but it would be in everyones best interest if you can realise that this guy is not representative of all homosexuals just like a male rapist is not representative of all males. Also, however wrong what he did was it does not justify hurting him unless in self defence. Hopefully you'll be able to get past this (though I understand how hard it will be) and be able to view the experience in a healthier manner.

Thank you, Dr. Armchair psychiatrist.
--shnippy--


And thank you Dr. Snide -- look, EVeryone here is an "armchair psychiatrist." You can excise part -- ONE part -- of my post and try to lash me for it with your rapier wit, but not reading the rest of it or ignoring what was there is dubious. Do you feel better about yourself now? Now that you put someone who was trying to help in his place?

I mentioned the whole insecurity and latency issue because it's just as possible as anything you suggested, and probably likely. You're absolutely right that there were no details about this so-called assault and none should be asked for if they're not freely or comfortably given. However, unless this poor guy was being mounted or having his clothes ripped off or in any way physically coerced besides having his hand touched and face kissed, there's no need for his constant barrage of insults to all homosexuals and constant calls for assault and battery of another human being.

Adolescents/young adults are often at odds with (or have difficulty controlling) their libidos (libidoes? libidi?). I have no idea about Isanyonehome's perpetrator, but I've seen my own share of mixed signals and awkward advances from having made them, received them, and (as a high school teacher) seen them from the outside.

Just as you're taking the tack that this incident is more serious than the initial post indicated, I've read clues in his posts that lead me to believe it was less serious. That's the only difference.

If you don't agree with me, that's fine -- in fact, it's a good thing because it means I get to see more posts from you. You're an outstanding writer and convincing orator (postator?) and I have nothing but respect and admiration for what you say. But when you start it with some snide sarcastic comment, I can't help but respond in kind.

My apologies to Isanyonehome if my take on your incident was not grave enough.

My apologies to Cat-Tribe if you were off-put by my posts. I stand by them.

Okay, I am going to try and tell you guys about an incident that hapened a month ago. I am going to try and tell it in a manor that doesnt get the thread deleted or my account banned.... Last time I tried the thread got deleted in 2 seconds.

1) I dont really like gay people. It makes me uncomfortable to see two guy kissing ect. But I realize that this is MY problem. The fact that it makes me physically ill is a problem I have to deal with, not them.

2) Whatever people feel(pro and con) towards alternative lifestyles, is no ones business. People should be allowed to live whatever lives they choose to. It isnt the place of some person or govt or religion to dictate how a person should live their life.

3) Some thing that some gay people do really freaks me out. I have no idea if this is indicative of the the community or not, but it really freaks me out.

a) I know a guy(gay) who gets a kick out of getting straight guys really drunk/drugged up and then having sex with them. He specifically targets straight guys at clubs. Other than that, he is a decent enough person.

b) some freak tried to kiss me. I had a party for my birthday, and around 1-2 am I was taking a nap. I woke up to see that some guy(I didnt invite him) was holding my hand. And then he tried to make out with me. What the hell is that all about???? If I wasnt the host, I would have decked him. What right did he have to pull that sort of shit?

If a guy had done that to a girl, she could have screamed sexual abuse to the police.

Are these types of behaviour supposed to make straight people think better of gay people?

I used to think that they had a cause, and now all I think about is this freak who tried to kiss me. I keep thinking I should have hit him. My partner says that we should have beat the shit out of him, the police here would not have made an issue.

I am asking for your opinion.

Is this the same as a guy trying to make out with a girl who is unwilling? I know that if a girl I wasnt interested in tried to force herself on me I would say no, but it wouldnt trouble me the way this incident did.


To the mods.

This isnt PC, I know.

I am not trolling, I and not flaming. At least this isnt my intention. I realize that NS is very PC, but I am only expressing an opinion on events that happened. This is what free speech is about. I think that I should be able to express my views, as distastefull as they may appear to you, with regards to gay people and my opinions of them.
1. ya
2. right on
3. a. That doesn't sound like a 'decent guy'. It's certainly not indicative of all gay people.
b. he had no right, that was really bad. It's definitely not indicative of all gay people.

PS> I don't think NS is a very PC place. Most member hate political correctness, and I see crazy views expressed here on a daily basis.

If other people find out, then I have to at least attempt some violence on this person, if only to maintain my business standing.
To "maintain your business standing" - wtf? Are you a fucking crack dealer in ancient Sparta?

Bah. Half the world's problems are caused by sexuality. Not just homosexuality, mind you, just sex, and lust for sex, in general.

Go asexuality! Whoo!
OMG but it's sooo good though. The problems arise only when people can't control their sexuality. Sexuality is not inherently problematic.

Commando3']The thing with sodomites though is they show no morality. They run around having queer sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.
The exact same thing could be sai about some straight people. It does not mean that we're all evil.

Well, I could easily say that it's because of people like the KKK that I think poorly of Americans. Or that it's because of people like the Taliban that I think poorly of Muslims. Or that it's because of people like the cannibalistic bands in the Congo who go around chopping people up and raping children that I think poorly of Africans. But I don't say that, because I don't think that, because it's a stupid thing to make generalizations about huge groups of people based on the worst examples of them.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're from one of the Southern US states due to what you said about the cops not caring and other things. Is this correct?

I am in India. There isnt a whole lot of tolerance here for alternate lifestyles.

Commando3']The thing with sodomites though is they show no morality. They run around having queer sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.Your assertion that homosexuals should be referred to as sodomites is predicated upon the belief on the Christian 'Holy Book' - ie, the Bible. The accuracy of the said text is debatable upon one's belief in Jehovah, or whatever one wishes to call him. We do not all have to share this belief. By the same token, one could refer to Hitler as a God-ite, since he was determined to wipe up the Jews. As God, in his infinite compassion, was willing to wipe out every first-born child in Egypt. Nice bloke (?). I mean, I may dislike children, but that's a bit extreme!

To "maintain your business standing" - wtf? Are you a fucking crack dealer in ancient Sparta?

If he was, I doubt he'd have too many problems with homosexuals. Those greeks were naughty little boys and girls. ;)

Damn thats sick!!!
AND Evil Getting kicks out of Date Rape!

Ok It is really pathetic that some of you are trying to convince this poor guy HE has a problem. Some people get raped and never get over it, and its not because they have a problem. personally I say if your able to get over any type of sexual assault consider yourself lucky. If someone who was homosexual tried to kiss me I would more than likely feel the same way. We think it ( homosexuality) is gross We can't stand it. why can't you recognize that it is the way we are and stop trying to tell us there is something wrong with us. hmmm now why does that last statement sound so familiar? Get a clue

Commando3']Sadly the sodomites will do things like this. Its in their nature to be promiscuos and perverted.
Does the perjorative term "sodomite" include all the heterosexual gentlemen who have suggested to go via the back door in their encounters with me? Your choice of language belies your unfounded animosity toward an entire group of people. If you're not banging them, then their sexuality is not your business. You probably speak to several homosexual people every day and don't even realise it because they're not a stereotype. Please check your mouth and pull your head in.

He clearly does have a problem, which isn't to say that it's his own fault or that there's something wrong with him. The problem is that this event occurred and now he harbours feelings of anger and vengeance. He wishes, quite sensibly, to relieve himself of those burdens, and an obvious strategy for achieving that goal is to pay a visit or two to a professional.

Alternatively, he could put the guy in hospital (which sounds like a rather risky overreaction) or wait and see if his emotions subside over time. I'd be inclined to spend a bit of time on the doctor's couch, personally, but I'm aware that some people aren't comfortable with that sort of thing.

What right does it give him to hold my hand and try to make out with me when I am waking up? I dont even know who the hell he is. I only found out later who invited him. Do you think it would be okay if I tried to force myself on some random girl who was passed out and was waking up? Honestly, the thing he did instills so much anger in me. I want to do violence on his person and in my entire life I have never felt like that before. Not only do I want to do violence on him, I want to do violence on everyone like him. I HATE feeling this way. I hate thinking about violence.
I think you're entirely justified to feel angered and violated and I'm glad that you had the courage to come to a forum and discuss it. I think distinctions have to be made here, though, with regards to what you can and cannot control, and where this predator's responsibility begins and ends.

Firstly, this guy is a predator. He did violate you, albeit not with a broken bottle up the whatsit like a rapist might, but he did take advantage of you. Assault is assault, and if you didn't feel at least a little freaked out, I'd be a bit suss of your self-esteem.

Secondly, you are entirely responsible for your reaction. Now, your values may be flavoured by your overall opinions of homosexuals, but we need to see this guy as he is - a predator. His gender preference is irrelevant at this point, as his actions were wrong because they were without consent. Preference doesn't matter, because if he's scoping out defenceless individuals, it's about power and violation, not about mutually enjoyable sex. People who are harrassed and assaulted sometimes carry it with them for the rest of their lives, so I'm glad that you're prepared to deal with it, instead of hiding from it for the rest of your life.

Speaking from personal experience, the desire to severely harm someone who has assaulted me (not sexually, more with intent to kill) is completely justifiable. But the idea is to use the fantasy of violence to alleviate your anger, not to encourage actual violence. Talking about the way you feel and why you're angry is the best way to uncover reasons as to why this affected you so deeply. Talking about it won't make you gay. It's totally understandable to be curious about things like that without condoning them or participating in them.

This guy is not a representation of all gay men, just like the paedophile priest isn't a representation of the entire catholic faith. When your sense of violation abates in time, you may be better equipped to challenge your feelings toward homosexuality.

Commando3']The thing with sodomites though is they show no morality. They run around having queer sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.
You'd think this guy would've learned not to troll from the last time we've had to deal with him for this (http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8589906&postcount=247).

iModBomb.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

Firstly, this guy is a predator. He did violate you, albeit not with a broken bottle up the whatsit like a rapist might, but he did take advantage of you. Assault is assault, and if you didn't feel at least a little freaked out, I'd be a bit suss of your self-esteem.

.

The guy isnt a predator. He is a pathetic attention seeking loser. I have found out a little about about him and this sort of thing is normal behaviour for him. Then he whines asking people if they are going to call him. Why the fuck doesnt he pull this shit with other gay people? I assume that there are gay bars in this town or a gay community. His probability of success would probably increase. I wonder how many times he has done this to people who are less restrained than I am when it comes to violence.

BTW: He is bisexual, he was making out with some butt ugly chick earlier in the night(I am told).

I hope your not planning to take your partners advice. Having the guy beaten up would make you about as bad as he is.
As for people telling you to get over it, screw'em. Get some counseling. How much this freaks youout can have to do with your upbringing, culture, past experiences or just how seriously you take your personal boundaries.
Even though I'm straight, it would actually freak me out more to wake up with a guy doing that than it would if a woman did it. That's because I've had experiences that make men seem more threatening in that situation.
Yeah, you may be a bit of a homophobe. While it's not really something I understand, You have a right to your own feelings. If a guy doing that freaks you out so much more than a girl, so be it. I can at least sympathize with how scary it might be.

Ok It is really pathetic that some of you are trying to convince this poor guy HE has a problem. Some people get raped and never get over it, and its not because they have a problem. personally I say if your able to get over any type of sexual assault consider yourself lucky. If someone who was homosexual tried to kiss me I would more than likely feel the same way. We think it ( homosexuality) is gross We can't stand it. why can't you recognize that it is the way we are and stop trying to tell us there is something wrong with us. hmmm now why does that last statement sound so familiar? Get a clue

Thank You.

I am sick of people telling me that I should go see a doctor because I harbor anger towards this idiotic individual. Just the fact that I havent acted upon my feelings should be proof enough that I am a well adjusted responsible member of society. Especially given that I live in a place where the best way to have someone put in the hospital is to pay the police and they will take care of it. Well, that probably wouldnt work in this case because this guy is of high enough social standing, but he is gay so it might work.

I hope your not planning to take your partners advice. Having the guy beaten up would make you about as bad as he is.
As for people telling you to get over it, screw'em. Get some counseling. How much this freaks youout can have to do with your upbringing, culture, past experiences or just how seriously you take your personal boundaries.
Even though I'm straight, it would actually freak me out more to wake up with a guy doing that than it would if a woman did it. That's because I've had experiences that make men seem more threatening in that situation.
Yeah, you may be a bit of a homophobe. While it's not really something I understand, You have a right to your own feelings. If a guy doing that freaks you out so much more than a girl, so be it. I can at least sympathize with how scary it might be.

Confused more than scary. At the time, I just couldnt make sense of what was going on. 1) I was disoriented from waking up and from alcohol. 2) I just couldnt make sense of why some random guy was holding my hand and trying to kiss me. My mind drew a complete blank.

Edit: If there was going to be any violence, it would have happened then or the day after. Its been over a month now. Nobody here knows about it, so there is no need to pursue the matter.

Confused more than scary. At the time, I just couldnt make sense of what was going on. 1) I was disoriented from waking up and from alcohol. 2) I just couldnt make sense of why some random guy was holding my hand and trying to kiss me. My mind drew a complete blank.

Edit: If there was going to be any violence, it would have happened then or the day after. Its been over a month now. Nobody here knows about it, so there is no need to pursue the matter.
we bad things happen suddenly like that we feel a need to "get a handle on it" by wondering if we did something to cause it. its a sort of desire to have some control over the uncontrollable. if we caused it, we can prevent it in the future by not doing whatever it was.

you didnt cause it. you arent giving out gay vibes. this guy didnt mistake you for someone who might want this attention. if he thought you were interested he would have approached you when you were awake. he was just a too drunk gay guy who stepped over the line. it was him, not you, who was wrong.

gay men arent attracted only to other gay guys. they just learn to keep their thoughts about straight guys to themselves. this guy got drunk enough to leave his natural caution behind.

the guy has probably lived in abject fear for a month. he knows that what he did could easily mean a sudden severe beating. hes been looking over his shoulder all this time.

Look, alright, drunk people do stupid things. Really stupid things. Straight people hook up with other straight people when they'd ordinarily shudder at the thought. Often, straight people hook up with people of the same gender, because the alcohol has wrecked their decisionmaking capacities to the extent that they just want sex: where it came from is irrelevent.

One can take two opinions on this:
a) Hold drunk people accountable for their actions - it was their choice to drink. In this case, the guy you were with is responsible for what he did, and thus likely committed a form of sexual assault. Bear in mind, though, that this doesn't just apply to gay people - anything you (Isanyonehome) or anyone else does while their drunk is their own fault. It requires a certain amount of owning up to responsibility and self-control to take this stance (If you don't drink, then much less so).

b) Drunk people are not in control of themselves, and what they do does not reflect their personalities, likes, dislkes, or normal actions. If that's your stance, DON'T BLAME THIS GUY. No one deserves to be beat up for something that they only did because they weren't in control of themselves. You also don't have to blame anyone else for what they do under the influence.

Most importantly, THIS IS ALL A QUESTION OF PERSPECTIVE. Depending on which one you take, IT COULD BE OK TO FEEL THE WAY YOU DO.

Commando3']The thing with sodomites though is they show no morality. They run around having queer sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.
Not all gay people have anal sex, darls. Some gay people don't even have penises. And I've only ever been offered anal sex from straight guys. I declined their generous offer, but that's beside the point. How do you know that people you consider peers aren't engaging in heterosexual "sodomy?" (within the confines of marriage or otherwise). Your statement is a wee bit skewiff if you're coming from the premise that only men are gay and only gay men have anal sex. Maybe you should do some research. sexuality.org has some great articles to clear up lots of misconceptions about everything from birthcontrol to bondage.
If you think that gay people are the biggest HIV danger, I have a few suggestions for you. Firstly, don't have sex with gay men. Secondly, don't have sex with koalas. Australia's koala population carry a strain of chlamydia which has been gradually wiping them out. God knows how they got it. I blame the scouts.
Thirdly, lets look at HIV globally. The UK reputedly had the best national health program in the west for dealing with HIV and AIDS because they saw it as a disease and not a morality issue. AIDS isn't solely transmitted by anal sex betwixt men. Increases in western countries have been linked to sexual complacency in heteros as well as needle sharing and in-utero transmittance. Recently the US cut funding for AIDS related health services in Africa and S.E. Asia because they wanted the education programs to be abstinence-based. Abstinence or not, gay or not, it's not doing a damn bit of good for AIDS orphans who have to support their younger siblings through prostitution (and don't get all moral-highground on me until you really consider the level of destitution that would drive a teenage girl to have to do that). In squalid living conditions, with the high incidence of rape, and the increased likelihood that a child will be born with AIDS if their mother has it, I would say that the global AIDS problem has about as much to do with gay lovin' as it does with koalas. I could send you a US case study of a psychotherapuetic intervention with an AIDS-infected 4 year old girl. She certainly didn't get AIDS from gay sex.
Who's tradition are we talking about, or am I to relegate that to the rest of your unfounded comments? All my gay friends pay tax, and therefore "help welfare," and none of them hurt children. As far as drawing correlations between the gay population and child abuse...howabout you post the statistics so we can all see how well-informed you are on the subject.

Not all gay people have anal sex, darls. Some gay people don't even have penises. And I've only ever been offered anal sex from straight guys. I declined their generous offer, but that's beside the point. How do you know that people you consider peers aren't engaging in heterosexual "sodomy?" (within the confines of marriage or otherwise). Your statement is a wee bit skewiff if you're coming from the premise that only men are gay and only gay men have anal sex. Maybe you should do some research. sexuality.org has some great articles to clear up lots of misconceptions about everything from birthcontrol to bondage.
If you think that gay people are the biggest HIV danger, I have a few suggestions for you. Firstly, don't have sex with gay men. Secondly, don't have sex with koalas. Australia's koala population carry a strain of chlamydia which has been gradually wiping them out. God knows how they got it. I blame the scouts.
Thirdly, lets look at HIV globally. The UK reputedly had the best national health program in the west for dealing with HIV and AIDS because they saw it as a disease and not a morality issue. AIDS isn't solely transmitted by anal sex betwixt men. Increases in western countries have been linked to sexual complacency in heteros as well as needle sharing and in-utero transmittance. Recently the US cut funding for AIDS related health services in Africa and S.E. Asia because they wanted the education programs to be abstinence-based. Abstinence or not, gay or not, it's not doing a damn bit of good for AIDS orphans who have to support their younger siblings through prostitution (and don't get all moral-highground on me until you really consider the level of destitution that would drive a teenage girl to have to do that). In squalid living conditions, with the high incidence of rape, and the increased likelihood that a child will be born with AIDS if their mother has it, I would say that the global AIDS problem has about as much to do with gay lovin' as it does with koalas. I could send you a US case study of a psychotherapuetic intervention with an AIDS-infected 4 year old girl. She certainly didn't get AIDS from gay sex.
Who's tradition are we talking about, or am I to relegate that to the rest of your unfounded comments? All my gay friends pay tax, and therefore "help welfare," and none of them hurt children. As far as drawing correlations between the gay population and child abuse...howabout you post the statistics so we can all see how well-informed you are on the subject.

Not only was your post very intelligent, but we have functionally the same score on the political compass.

<snip>

this is a much better response than that flamebait deserved. well said!

Look, alright, drunk people do stupid things. Really stupid things. Straight people hook up with other straight people when they'd ordinarily shudder at the thought. Often, straight people hook up with people of the same gender, because the alcohol has wrecked their decisionmaking capacities to the extent that they just want sex: where it came from is irrelevent.

One can take two opinions on this:
a) Hold drunk people accountable for their actions - it was their choice to drink. In this case, the guy you were with is responsible for what he did, and thus likely committed a form of sexual assault. Bear in mind, though, that this doesn't just apply to gay people - anything you (Isanyonehome) or anyone else does while their drunk is their own fault. It requires a certain amount of owning up to responsibility and self-control to take this stance (If you don't drink, then much less so).

b) Drunk people are not in control of themselves, and what they do does not reflect their personalities, likes, dislkes, or normal actions. If that's your stance, DON'T BLAME THIS GUY. No one deserves to be beat up for something that they only did because they weren't in control of themselves. You also don't have to blame anyone else for what they do under the influence.

Most importantly, THIS IS ALL A QUESTION OF PERSPECTIVE. Depending on which one you take, IT COULD BE OK TO FEEL THE WAY YOU DO.

I have done lots of stupid shit while drunk. Mostly, alcohol has caused me to turn off girls that would have otherwise had sex with me. I say/do stupid things while under the influence. My sex life would be much better if I could just keep my mouth shut.

ut I have never hit on a girl who was passed out/waking up...well, once but that was back when I was 15 and we had dated....still, it was kinda perverted.... I think she was only pretendding to be asleep in any case.

Back to the topic

for those of you that say I am in the wrong and should get help.... fuck off.
for the rest who are trying to understand how disturbed this makes me feel, thank you.


Oh, and to the person who said I must be a closet homosexual, Fuck you very much. Meet me in person in a place/country that I can get away with violence and then we will discuss matters. Free speech is nice, but speech isnt free and sometimes there are consequences.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

It's a lot nicer outside the closet, you know.


Seriously...go to hell.

Commando3']The thing with sodomites though is they show no morality. They run around having queer sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.

:headbang:

Commando3']Sadly the sodomites will do things like this. Its in their nature to be promiscuos and perverted.
Sadly, the Christians will do this. It's in their nature to be condescending and intolerant.

Commando3']The thing with sodomites though is they show no morality. They run around having queer sex and spreading AIDS, and spitting on tradition while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even hurt children.
The thing with heterosexual white males is that they show no morality. They run around having heterosexual sex and spreading AIDS, and destroying entire societies while they are at it. They do not help the general welfare, and have been known to even molest 7-year-old girls.

for those of you that say I am in the wrong and should get help.... fuck off.
for the rest who are trying to understand how disturbed this makes me feel, thank you.


Oh, and to the person who said I must be a closet homosexual, Fuck you very much. Meet me in person in a place/country that I can get away with violence and then we will discuss matters. Free speech is nice, but speech isnt free and sometimes there are consequences.

You only prove my point. Good luck with that.

EDIT: Awright, screw it. I've had it with this guy. There have been legions of terrific posts designed to give this person the opinions HE ASKED FOR. The only ones he wants to listen to are the two or three that have backed his desire to go beat up some guy who has a problem controlling his sexual urges when he's drunk. HE EVEN ADMITS TO DOING IT "ONCE" HIMSELF.

So to all you kind and generous posters who tried to inject a littel reason, compassion and tolerance into this discussion, bless you for your patience, you have a hell of a lot more than I do. Isanyonehome didn't want to hear anything about tolerance or psychology, he wanted to have his barbaric urge to lash out in extreme violence WAY out of proportion to the offense backed and approved of by this forum.

And let's get this straight -- HE WAS NOT RAPED. No more than any woman who's ever been drunkenly acosted by some horny and lonely hetero guy. He's said it over and over again, the jerk who did this to him HELD HIS HAND and TRIED, TRIED, to kiss him. I stand by my mention of the POSSIBILITY, THE MERE POSSIBILITY that latent feelings may be a PARTIAL trigger to his response -- I've seen that before in people I know, I'm not just pulling that out of thin air (anyone here ever see American Beauty?).

Finally, what kind of person actually threatens someone in an online forum whom he KNOWS to be well over 5000 miles away? This is, in fact, someone with anger management problems -- someone who thinks himself above the law -- someone who needs to get a taste of his own sickeneing violent medicine as that's the only thing he seems to understand.

Now I know those who've tried to speak kindly to Isanyonehome are good and decent folks, and I am sorry if my exasperation lessens their opinon of me. But I have taken all I can, and to be threatened for merely posting ONE POSSIBILITY among ALL OF THE OTHER good and helpful things I said just pisses me off.

Isanyonehome, I sincerely hope you find a way to control your rage before it gets loosed on someone who deserves it even less that your pawing assailant...like a girlfriend or a child. God help you.

Having read the entire thread, I want to point out a couple things:

Isanyonehome has
1)repeatedly said that he wishes he'd beaten the guy up.
2) expressed a wish to take advantage of the police's corruption and homophobia to inflict bodily harm to the man, before due process.
3) described a man who rapes and takes sexual advantage of inebriated men as "a pretty decent guy"
4) acknowledged his pre-formed discomfort with homosexuality.
5) made clear that he is still thinking of violence a month after the fact.
6) threatened violence against fellow posters that were either in jest, or trying to help.

You have my sincere sympathy for what must have been a very uncomfortable and disturbing situation, BUT as Intagelon has said, your response against gays is totally misplaced, and your anger far out of proportion.

Please re-examine your charachter judgements: a man who has sex with unconsenting people (while they're drugged) is "pretty decent" because he acts "normal" most of the time, while a guy who tried to simply hold your hand and kiss you deserves to be beaten? You seem to condone a culture of bigotry and homophobia in your Police force. You feel the need for retrubution because you believe you'd be thought less of by your co-workers if you didn't. To put it bluntly, your position is based on unjust societal norms.

You don't seem like an inherently violent or mean-spirited person, but clearly society's various pressures, expectations, and predjudices have skewed your judgement. I would urge you to cool of, and reconsider your position.

Having read the entire thread, I want to point out a couple things:

Isanyonehome has
1)repeatedly said that he wishes he'd beaten the guy up.
2) expressed a wish to take advantage of the police's corruption and homophobia to inflict bodily harm to the man, before due process.
3) described a man who rapes and takes sexual advantage of inebriated men as "a pretty decent guy"
4) acknowledged his pre-formed discomfort with homosexuality.
5) made clear that he is still thinking of violence a month after the fact.
6) threatened violence against fellow posters that were either in jest, or trying to help.

You have my sincere sympathy for what must have been a very uncomfortable and disturbing situation, BUT as Intagelon has said, your response against gays is totally misplaced, and your anger far out of proportion.

Please re-examine your charachter judgements: a man who has sex with unconsenting people (while they're drugged) is "pretty decent" because he acts "normal" most of the time, while a guy who tried to simply hold your hand and kiss you deserves to be beaten? You seem to condone a culture of bigotry and homophobia in your Police force. You feel the need for retrubution because you believe you'd be thought less of by your co-workers if you didn't. To put it bluntly, your position is based on unjust societal norms.

You don't seem like an inherently violent or mean-spirited person, but clearly society's various pressures, expectations, and predjudices have skewed your judgement. I would urge you to cool of, and reconsider your position.

What part of "If there was going to be violence it would have happened that night or the next day" do you not understand?

And as to threatening violence against a NS poster, grow up. Do you seriously believe that I would do violence to someone because of something they said on an internet forum? Who behaves like that? Where is your sense of reality? It is a turn of speech, and if you cannot comprehend that, then..well I actually do not know what to say.

HE EVEN ADMITS TO DOING IT "ONCE" HIMSELF.
.

No, we were lying in bed and I stopped once I realized she was sleeping.

What part of "If there was going to be violence it would have happened that night or the next day" do you not understand?

And as to threatening violence against a NS poster, grow up. Do you seriously believe that I would do violence to someone because of something they said on an internet forum? Who behaves like that? Where is your sense of reality? It is a turn of speech, and if you cannot comprehend that, then..well I actually do not know what to say.Clearly I understand that you've behaved with restraint, and I don't think you're unbalanced or ANYTHING like that. I'm just saying that you could moderate your expressions, and I dissagree with your conclusions is all.

Clearly I understand that you've behaved with restraint, and I don't think you're unbalanced or ANYTHING like that. I'm just saying that you could moderate your expressions, and I dissagree with your conclusions is all.

ok

Sounds to me like he's been humiliated and feeling "unclean" over being harassed by a gay man and is just looking for affirmation on his Honor Killing fantasies.

How do I respond to this thread?

Most people viewed this in the correct light( a disturbing event that I wished hadnt happened), I am not going to inflict violence on this person, though the option is readiy available. The only thing that troubles me is that instead of writing this incident off, I still think about it.

However, looking at the responses on this forum, my gay bashing views are justified.

Many people here have voiced opinions that there is something wrong with me for being troubled by the actions of this freak. If a guy was to force himself on a girl, nobody would be talking about how the girl needed to seek treatment.

But a gay fag tries to force himself on a guy and all of a sudden it is wrong for the guy to be angry. He must seek help or has anger management issue. Go to hell. I have no anger management issues. I also have no problem putting freaks(sexual or otherwise) in cold dark holes where they suffer.

Dont you PC whores even comprehend your hypocracy? A third of the posts here have been telling me that I am somehow wrong. How far does PC violate your thinking? Yeah, its my fault that a gay fag tried to take advantage of me. If it was a girl you bull queers would be talking about how the white man abuses minorities. Go to hell, I can almost understand those racist/homophobic cults.....Almost.

I realize I wont change your mind, but if you freaks keep alienating people who would otherwise support you, then you are ust looking to lose whatever battle you are trying to win.

How do I respond to this thread?

Most people viewed this in the correct light( a disturbing event that I wished hadnt happened), I am not going to inflict violence on this person, though the option is readiy available. The only thing that troubles me is that instead of writing this incident off, I still think about it.

However, looking at the responses on this forum, my gay bashing views are justified.

Hold it right there, sparky!!

You've really tried everyone's patience. I'm starting to think you did so deliberately.

The "correct" light is not "only those that agree with me and think that it would have been OK for me to go pummel the guy."

You've used deliberately inflammatory language.

Refused to listen to constructive offers of help.

You were -- by your own description -- mildly -- very, very mildly assaulted. That you were -- by your admission -- homophobic before the incident made it worse in your own mind.

An irrational response is somewhat normal. An overeaction is understandable , but is still an overreaction.

Many people here have voiced opinions that there is something wrong with me for being troubled by the actions of this freak. If a guy was to force himself on a girl, nobody would be talking about how the girl needed to seek treatment.

YES. Yes, I would.

If a girl had had the exact same incident happen to her and it deeply disturbed her, I would recommend some counseling!!!

If the girl was still having nightmares about such a minor incident a month after it occurred, I strongly recommend some counseling!!!

If the girl was ranting about her hatred for all men and her desire for an outlet of physical violence, I would insist on some counseling!!!

You seem to confuse counseling and therapy with One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

It is not a bad thing to get some counseling. It is not a character flaw. It is not a sign of weakness. Many, many, many of the most successful and well-adjusted people in the world have received some type of counseling -- particularly in response to a trauma.

Your fear and loathing of counseling is even more irrational than your other fears and loathings.

But a gay fag tries to force himself on a guy and all of a sudden it is wrong for the guy to be angry. He must seek help or has anger management issue. Go to hell. I have no anger management issues. I also have no problem putting freaks(sexual or otherwise) in cold dark holes where they suffer.

It is not wrong to be angry.

Some of what you have said about what you would like to do, would be willing to do, and would like others to do has been more than angry and has suggested you need some help adjusting to what happened to you.

You might also get some help determining whether you do have an anger management problem and/or whether your homophobia has underlying causes that disturb you.

It is no more wrong, weak, etc., to get counseling than it is to get other medical care -- or use a bandage.

Dont you PC whores even comprehend your hypocracy? A third of the posts here have been telling me that I am somehow wrong. How far does PC violate your thinking? Yeah, its my fault that a gay fag tried to take advantage of me. If it was a girl you bull queers would be talking about how the white man abuses minorities. Go to hell, I can almost understand those racist/homophobic cults.....Almost.

Not your fault.

Nor are "fag[s]" at fault for what happened to you. One person who you later admitted was bi-sexual.

Calling other people names and attacking minorities doesn't help your cause. Whether suffering trauma or not, you are acting like a jerk.

I'm not going to dig up the number of threads in here where I've nearly had aneurysm because of people downplaying the seriousness of rape, blaming the victim of rape, and saying most women lie about rape. BUT YOU'VE BEEN HANDLED WITH KID GLOVES.

Your hypocrisy in excusing worse behavior in an acquaitance has been noted and is disturbing.

I realize I wont change your mind, but if you freaks keep alienating people who would otherwise support you, then you are ust looking to lose whatever battle you are trying to win.

You made perfectly clear you were alienated before what happened to you and before this thread started.

Your name calling and threats really make sympathizing with you difficult.

You've been offered solace and good advice about your trauma. You throw it back in people's faces.

To say you are being unreasonable is an understatement.

Get some help or get over it yourself. But it isn't a license to insult and hate.

How do I respond to this thread?

Most people viewed this in the correct light( a disturbing event that I wished hadnt happened), I am not going to inflict violence on this person, though the option is readiy available. The only thing that troubles me is that instead of writing this incident off, I still think about it.

Most people aren't going to find out the deep truth of what troubles them over something they should be getting over on their own. Hence the suggestion of professional counseling to find out why it's still troubling you.

However, looking at the responses on this forum, my gay bashing views are justified.

Many people here have voiced opinions that there is something wrong with me for being troubled by the actions of this freak. If a guy was to force himself on a girl, nobody would be talking about how the girl needed to seek treatment.

But a gay fag tries to force himself on a guy and all of a sudden it is wrong for the guy to be angry. He must seek help or has anger management issue. Go to hell. I have no anger management issues. I also have no problem putting freaks(sexual or otherwise) in cold dark holes where they suffer.

I don't know which lines you're reading between, but the general consensus is that you have a right to be angry. However, you don't have the right to project that anger onto every homosexual male and assume they will all behave the same. It's irrational in the face of your admitted ease and tolerance of another gay male who you described as an opportunistic rapist. Then again it's probably because he hasn't tried to take advantage of you yet.

Dont you PC whores even comprehend your hypocracy? A third of the posts here have been telling me that I am somehow wrong. How far does PC violate your thinking? Yeah, its my fault that a gay fag tried to take advantage of me. If it was a girl you bull queers would be talking about how the white man abuses minorities. Go to hell, I can almost understand those racist/homophobic cults.....Almost.

I realize I wont change your mind, but if you freaks keep alienating people who would otherwise support you, then you are ust looking to lose whatever battle you are trying to win.

Again with reading between the lines. Nobody said it was your fault a lecher (gay or otherwise) harassed you. However, your projection of this sole asshole's trait on every other homosexual except your rapist friend is what's troubling people.

Oh, and to the person who said I must be a closet homosexual, Fuck you very much. Meet me in person in a place/country that I can get away with violence and then we will discuss matters. Free speech is nice, but speech isnt free and sometimes there are consequences.
I'm up for it. Where and when?

Isanyonehome,

You've had a lot of good advice and a generally sympathetic response, although you haven't chosen to notice this. You may not like what I'm going to say either, but you started this thread with a request for help. You aren't moving on from what happened to you on your own, and you're stuck in your wish that you had hurt your attacker, and in your generalization of hatred to a whole group of people based on the behaviour of that one.

I'd like to propose another way for you and all of us to look at this.

First, I notice that you say you're in India, and as you observe, "alternative lifestyles" aren't tolerated well there. It's important for us here to remember that this isn't just that you have a problem because haven't been "educated properly" about homosexuality. Such an interpretation of your problem is a Western-centred approach. For anyone who isn't aware of this, in many cultures around the world, homosexuality carries with it strong connotations of a fundamental violation of what is natural. (Some Westerners share this for a variety of reasons, but that's not the point here.) And for those trying to grasp this concept of "natural"/"unnatural" by comparing it to Western attitudes, this isn't necessarily about ideas of "sin". Often, it's the belief that homosexuality is an aberration of reality more fundamental than if a Westerner's cat suddenly began to write equations on the walls and expound super-string theory. It's no good saying they're wrong; once we as Westerners sign up to the belief that sexual preferences are to be evaluated relativistically rather than absolutely, so that the homosexual individual or group must not be regarded as morally less valid than the heterosexual, we are on shaky ground if we refuse to compare cultural mores in similarly relativistic fashion. If this relativism throws up ambiguities or clashes in values or in logic, that's our problem. We undermine our position if we say that non-Western cultures are less valid if they disagree with our take on things, whether eating grubs or rejecting homosexuality as "unnatural". Our relativism gives them the right to disagree with us and still be valid.

There is no point in any of us who don't share such a cultural milieu and who therefore don't feel the weight of such cultural presuppositions feeling that someone like Isanyonehome in such a culture could get over this "if only" he would deal with his "homophobia" better. It seems to me that Isanyonehome initially dealt with his feelings about his experience pretty well at least in his outward behaviour, all things considered. (I put the word "homophobia" in quotation marks and use a different phrase for this experience because it is also a Western perspective, which equates most or all non-acceptance of homosexual behaviour with irrational fear, whether fear of oneself or fear of some myth about homosexuals or whatever. Even among Westerners, non-acceptance of homosexual behaviour isn't based always on fear. It can be a calculated rejection based on a variety of other attitudes, some of which may be reasoned or pragmatic. Just as heterosexuals need to overcome their myths about universally ravenous predatory homosexuals, homosexuals need to overcome their myths about universally phobic heterosexuals. There is too much variety amongst humans for such myths to be useful. Using a word like "homophobic" only prejudges and obscures the issues.)

Second, I'd like to suggest that in addition to your stated distress at the sexual nature of the attack there is the fact that nearly all assaults are deeply distressing and can provoke us to obsess about how we should have responded or what we might do to punish them.

Many adult men and women who were mugged, or were innocent victims in a larger crime such as a bank robbery, or were witnesses to a public act of violence, have reacted in similar fashion to you. They find their thoughts turning involuntarily to fantasies of how they wish they had responded, usually with violence. They sometimes also fantasize about taking revenge on their atacker(s) at a later time. Children also react like this sometimes. When bullied, if they were unable to fight back right away they often find themselves fantasizing later about how they should have reacted at the time, or about "getting even" with the bullies "the next time". Then there is the peculiar horror children feel when they are the victims of domestic violence or are forced to be witnesses to it. Once more, there is often a desire to take back power from the abuser and give him (or her) a taste of his (or her) own medicine, and frequently this desire comes out in obsessive fantasies. In some children these thoughts and feelings continue into adulthood. From this we can say that your experience of obsession about this is not uncommon.

At the root of such reactions is our outrage at the way someone else imposed themselves on us -- the way they forced us to be the victims of their desire to use us for their own purposes, and the way they made us feel helpless and violated. Underlying that is often the realization that they devalued us and demeaned us. It is humiliating and invasive.

Third, if we add to this core of all assault the sexual element such as you experienced it, it becomes more intense. Our sexual identity helps to form the heart of our sense of self. When someone else reflects back at us their disrespect and disregard for our sexual identity, and treats us as though we exist solely for their gratification, it is deeply wounding. This tends to amplify everything I've already described about more basic forms of assault.

(People familiar with the issues surrounding subjects like sexual exploitation and assault will recognize this description of things. Although it usually comes up in the context of feminism, it's not gender-specific. Acts like sexual exploitation and harassment and rape are not only against the body, but against the mind, the "heart" of a person. So are all crimes of assault, although we don't always acknowledge it.)

What I'm saying is that it isn't unusual after an experience like yours to begin to fantasize about revenge. What is most important about us as people is not our initial reaction, but our chosen, ongoing response. You made a good start when you chose not to act out the violence you wanted to commit. Would I be right in thinking that you need help now is because you sometimes have the feeling that the choice you made was weak, inadequate and unmanly -- that you let him get away with it? You don't know me and you have no reason to believe me, but I don't think you need to worry on that score. He behaved like an animal, you responded like a human. But that isn't what you're feeling now, is it? Is it possible that you feel as though you are the one who was in some way diminished by the way he acted toward you?

Finally, I want to tell you I agree with the observations of others in this thread that given the time lapse you describe, your feelings are properly described as "obsessional". And I agree that you could benefit greatly from receiving professional counselling from a competent person. Unfortunately, access to trained counsellors or psychologists is not universal, for various reasons. In some cultures, what Westerners mean by "counselling" is an alien concept based on the disintegration of the fundamental social structures. In others, there is simply a lack of mental health professionals. And in still others -- even Western ones, it is not considered acceptable to tell one's business to a total stranger, regardless of his or her training (I would mention parts of the United Kingdom, perhaps most of it, as an example of the latter). So, while I also believe you would benefit from the help of a trained professional such as a counsellor, I can see that it may not be as simple as picking one out from the Yellow Pages. Does that relate to your situation? What is the attitude to counsellors where you are? Would you have access, and how would you feel about going to such a person? It seems that you may travel with your work. Is it possible you might see a counsellor for short-term help when you travel?

None of us can always control our immediate reactions to things that cause us stress or make us feel endangered, just as none of us can avoid being startled if someone surprises us with a sudden loud noise behind us. And at least sometimes, we can't help wishing we could take revenge. But ... we don't have to keep rehearsing our feelings of stress or endangerment. Neither do we have to keep rehearsing our desire for revenge. We can learn to re-order our thinking so that instead of practising in our thoughts all those feelings of stress and danger, instead of practising in our thoughts how we'd like to take revenge, we can learn to rehearse other thoughts that are more beneficial to our long-term well-being. (This implies a prior step. You need admit to yourself that thinking about how your attacker made you feel, and thinking about what you'd like to do to him, are NOT beneficial to you. Rerunning those thoughts means rerunning that awful sense of being devalued and humiliated. You need to let go of all those things so they don't keep hurting you. You need to make that choice.)

None of this means you should minimize what happened to you or pretend it wasn't as bad as it was. On the contrary, it's because it was so serious that for your own sake you should give up obsessing about it. When he attacked you, it was one attack, but by obsessing on it, you allow the effects of that attack to be repeated in your mind, and this just multiplies the pain you're feeling. And by thinking about what you could do to exact revenge or punishment against him, you risk lowering yourself to his level. He isn't worth it.

It's easy for someone like me, a stranger sitting in the comfort of my home, to write things like this. It's much harder for you, who suffered that sense of being demeaned and invaded, to know how to try doing these things and how to succeed. That is why so many people here suggest you might try counselling, and it's why I agree with them even though, as I've acknowledged, it might not be easy for you to go to a counsellor. A good counsellor (as opposed to the other kind) can guide you to the particular ways of putting these ideas into practice. Sometimes we need help, as you have acknowledged by bringing your problem to other people here. And sometimes we need the help of someone who knows how to do the things we have to struggle to do. That can't really be us here, because you are unique in many ways, and what might be true in general might not be true about you in particular. Only when you're talking to a competent person, one-to-one, can you get past the generalities to the specifics that will help you.

=

These last thoughts. People are right to point out that your attacker is most likely the homosexual equivalent of the kind of "romeo" that tries it on with any girl he fancies, without regard to whether she'd be interested or not. Such people take the "scattergun" approach to meeting potential partners: they shoot indiscriminately without regard to the suitability of the targets, hoping that sooner or later they'll hit something. What this means practically is that, from your description, it seems he did all that damage not out of deliberate malice but out of blind stupidity, the way a drunk driver might unconsciously kill a family. He just was trawling for a partner, and didn't care how many mistakes he made before finding one.

Also, I notice that a number of gay people here have disavowed that kind of predator. Your attacker did not act on behalf of all gay men, just like heterosexual men who rape women or molest children do not act on behalf of you or me or all heterosexual men. It won't help you to forget that you know homosexuals who share your shock and anger at what this guy did.

Finally, Cat Tribe and others are right to point out that no one is saying something is wrong with you because of what this guy did. Something is most certainly wrong because of the trouble you're having in dealing with it in a way that gives you emotional health. The fact that you still struggle with the wish to cause harm is a desire to punish and take revenge, no matter what you tell yourself. And it's not healthy.

I'm sorry this happened to you, and I'm sorry you're not yet getting the help you need. Whatever you do, don't let this event carry on haunting you. You need to get help and to learn how to get past it. Things take time; things like this especially. Make good use of this time.

I wish you peace.

--snip--
I wish you peace.


Impressive words and compassionate words as well. I only hope they'll not be ignored or misinterpreted or deliberately twisted like the rest.

I started in that vein, but was rebuked, insulted and threatened [and yes, a threat is a threat, even online -- in fact, an online threat is even more dire because it shows just how prone to violence you are that you'd bother to threaten it when it's impossible to follow through].

This little boy is a thug, and I wash my hands of him.

Okay, I am going to try and tell you guys about an incident that hapened a month ago. I am going to try and tell it in a manor that doesnt get the thread deleted or my account banned.... Last time I tried the thread got deleted in 2 seconds.

1) I dont really like gay people. It makes me uncomfortable to see two guy kissing ect. But I realize that this is MY problem. The fact that it makes me physically ill is a problem I have to deal with, not them.

2) Whatever people feel(pro and con) towards alternative lifestyles, is no ones business. People should be allowed to live whatever lives they choose to. It isnt the place of some person or govt or religion to dictate how a person should live their life.

3) Some thing that some gay people do really freaks me out. ...

Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah..."I dont really like gay people." I can't believe that you just said that. But just the same, you party with skanky gay clubbing guys. Then you think a little too much about gay sex... WTF? Read a book, watch the news, learn about something that matters, and then don't let people who are different from you upset you so much.

Pure Thought

I wholeheartedly applaud you for your even-handed, empathetic and honest response. I think poster's general response to this thread was totally reasonable. Considering Isanyonehome asked for advice and help, most of us took it upon ourselves to discuss his issue without predjudice or denigration. In light of how sensitive the sexuality issue is for many, I think posters in this thread did damn well, and I'd feel honoured to receive the same advice and empathy from NSers if I posted a problem.

Isanyonehome, lots of people have tried to help you out here. Some of us may have even had to struggle with predjudices of our own to approach you as a person and not an anti-homosexual stereotype. Know that you are welcome and valued by many of us here, and please try and see our comments without fear or retaliation. When you ask so little, and recieve so much, it's poor form to not at least feign appreciation.

Hey, Isanyonehome, I'm straight and gay guys hit on me too. Take it as a compliment!

As for them being over agressive, I think people here got it right when they said it's a case of them being skanky people. They go in the same box as the greasy guy that hits on women constantly throughout the night, even though he's been told to f#ck off, and slaggy women that climb over men who end up having to physically remove them.

Don' take this the wrong way but I think you are just generalising, and giving in to anti-gay feeling. It's a standard response by anyoine who has had this sort of encounter (Not personally but know people with similar experiences).

Don't get me wrong, I am not gay, I too find public gay displays of affection disgusting and although I know gay people and have gay friends, many gay people are partially to blame for this.
I think you will that many gays hate these sort of people more than you do because they increase the hatred and abuse towards normal people that happen to be gay. These are no worse then their heterosexual counterparts, but they are far more damaging to the gay image.
Let's face it, most 'straight' people do not know many gay people. I know about 8~10 gay people, and all my friends have said 'Are you gay? because you sure know a lot of them.'
Thus these people are more damaging then their heterosexual counterparts, because many people rarely know more than 2~5, if any. If one is this sort of gay is taken representatively, therefore for the average heterosexual 20-50% of gays are like this. I think you just met a pair of bastards and should not take this as an representation of the bulk of gays.

In response to my earlier statement of many gay people are partially to blame for this, it is because they do not react like normal people would.
For example I know a guy who got the absolute crap kicked out of him because he would get chicks drunk and sleep with them. When the last time you heard of a bunch of gay guys beating the crap out of another gay for what the first guy did? I probably would though out of general principle.
As for the second, you may need some counselling to deal with the issues you are facing in the aftermath of the incident, but I would have hospitalised him even if he had of been the President of the US, bacuse that is sexually-based abuse regardless of gender.
However females are different as they are an desired waker in this fashion by many men although I can not speak for all. Perhaps you should make sure he did not think you were gay before acting.