NationStates Jolt Archive

Then would that mean the end of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (as well as smaller religions like the Druze)? Or would these big three religions carry on and try to rebuild? I am talking here Iran and Israel shoot it out with nukes, Jeruselum is vaporized along with Bethlehem, and all the holy sites there, Saudi Arabia gets nuked and Mecca and Medina cease to exist. Perhaps everyone would become hindus.

I don't think anything will change. The survivors will happily blame it on someone, whom they will eventually prosecute and hang. Some people want power, and use religion to get it - some don't. It's how it has always been, it's how it will probably always be. Until we're wiped out by our own stupidity.

Then would that mean the end of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (as well as smaller religions like the Druze)? Or would these big three religions carry on and try to rebuild? I am talking here Iran and Israel shoot it out with nukes, Jeruselum is vaporized along with Bethlehem, and all the holy sites there, Saudi Arabia gets nuked and Mecca and Medina cease to exist. Perhaps everyone would become hindus.
Wow. You're quite an optimist, aren't you? ;)
Ok then:
If a nuclear war were to break out in the middle east, the us, europe and asia would also get involved and everybody would die.(therefore no need for religion anymore.)
Only africa would survive untouched and realize that war could never possibly bring freedom and join in a great union of brotherhood.
Or something along those lines.

Then would that mean the end of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (as well as smaller religions like the Druze)? Or would these big three religions carry on and try to rebuild? I am talking here Iran and Israel shoot it out with nukes, Jeruselum is vaporized along with Bethlehem, and all the holy sites there, Saudi Arabia gets nuked and Mecca and Medina cease to exist. Perhaps everyone would become hindus.

While relics and holy places are important to people, none of "the big three" would lose the ability to carry on. Just like the Orthodox Church carried on after the loss of Constantinople.

Nah, there wold be some repurcussions (obviously), but you can't kill Christianity, or Judaism, or Islam THAT easily.

I don't think anything will change. The survivors will happily blame it on someone, whom they will eventually prosecute and hang. Some people want power, and use religion to get it - some don't. It's how it has always been, it's how it will probably always be. Until we're wiped out by our own stupidity.
Jeeze! Should I just go ahead and shoot myself now and avoid the rush???

Religion is dependent upon the belief of its adherents, not some "holy place" or icon. In the event the Middle East goes belly-up in a nuclear holocaust, chances are all the major faiths would blame each other and indulge themselves in a continuation of the bloodbath. Some few, from all faiths, would try to rebuild and reconcile.

As for my opinion I think all three religions would die. Judaism is so all about Israel now, I think the surviving Jews all just give up. Sure a few devoted north american jews would go over and try to rebuild but would quickly die of radiation poisoning. The Muslims couldn't pray towards mecca anymore, and would quickly realize that maybe allah wasn't so great and mighty as they thought. The Christians would all pack their bags and wait to get raptured and when it doesn't happen will all realized that jesus tricked them all for 2000 years into thinking he was god.

Then everyone will become nhilistic athiests for a few decades before crazier, even more fanatical religions emerge.

Jeeze! Should I just go ahead and shoot myself now and avoid the rush???

Religion is dependent upon the belief of its adherents, not some "holy place" or icon. In the event the Middle East goes belly-up in a nuclear holocaust, chances are all the major faiths would blame each other and indulge themselves in a continuation of the bloodbath. Some few, from all faiths, would try to rebuild and reconcile.

That's just what I said. Only much more eloquently, I'll give you that.

PS Avoid the rush???? Too late, matey! ;)

Wow. You're quite an optimist, aren't you? ;)
Ok then:
If a nuclear war were to break out in the middle east, the us, europe and asia would also get involved and everybody would die.(therefore no need for religion anymore.)
Only africa would survive untouched and realize that war could never possibly bring freedom and join in a great union of brotherhood.
Or something along those lines.

On the contrary, why should it turn out that pessimistic? US involvement would be very likely , but i'm not sure about European countries (apart from the UK, maybe). Regarding Asia, which country in Asia would have interest and capability for becoming involved in such a war? There would be no reason for China or Japan to become involved. Iran and Pakistan would be likely... but well, their capacities are limited, too.
Even if there was a big global escalation (for a weird unknown reason whatsoever), why would only Africa survive untouched? What about South America, South-East Asia and Australia? The world is bigger than that.

In any case, if there was a nuclear war in the Middle East, probably only Israel and it's neighbour countries (and possibly the US) would be involved. The greater part of the world would be uninvolved in the conflict.

I think the biggest effect would probably be an economic one, with the Middle East being major oil producer (especially for the EU and the US). Oil prices would be skyrocketing, and i figure that there would be a world economic crisis. Then there would be an environmental effect. Due to the currents in the region, most of the fallout would go to either East Africa and India (depending on season). Probably millions of people would need to be re-populated (i'd imagine that they'd all try to enter the EU :D ).

Regarding religious issues, i'm not sure what effect this would have, although i could imagine the remaining Jews and Muslims might suffer a major identity crisis.

That's just what I said. Only much more eloquently, I'll give you that.

PS Avoid the rush???? Too late, matey! ;)
Shit! You mean now I gotta wait in line to shoot myself! Damn! ;)

The rest of the world would follow in nuclear winter. Then the whole world's problems would be over.

The rest of the world would follow in nuclear winter. Then the whole world's problems would be over.

I personally think that the effects of nuclear winter are vastly overestimated. Simply because we didn't experience one so far. As an analogy, the supposed 'impact winters' from asteroid impacts seem to have had insignficant effect on the biosphere despite the yield from some of them was many times higher than that of all nuclear weapons we have today.

Then the world would be fucked.

I personally think that the effects of nuclear winter are vastly overestimated. Simply because we didn't experience one so far. As an analogy, the supposed 'impact winters' from asteroid impacts seem to have had insignficant effect on the biosphere despite the yield from some of them was many times higher than that of all nuclear weapons we have today.
Maybe, but the Middle East is a very large area, it surely would affect more than a little. And there really haven't been meaningful asteroid impacts lately, but some big ones in the past certainly altered life.

Maybe, but the Middle East is a very large area, it surely would affect more than a little. And there really haven't been meaningful asteroid impacts lately, but some big ones in the past certainly altered life.

Some big ones have apparently had effect, while others definitly didn't. The Manicouagan impact during the late Triassic for example is impossible to link with any extinction event despite it was very large (the crater has 100 kilometers diameter). But yeah, in the case of a nuclear war in the region, the Middle East would very likely be in very bad condition afterwards.

I personally think that the effects of nuclear winter are vastly overestimated. Simply because we didn't experience one so far. As an analogy, the supposed 'impact winters' from asteroid impacts seem to have had insignficant effect on the biosphere despite the yield from some of them was many times higher than that of all nuclear weapons we have today.

I agree.

Some big ones have apparently had effect, while others definitly didn't. The Manicouagan impact during the late Triassic for example is impossible to link with any extinction event despite it was very large (the crater has 100 kilometers diameter). But yeah, in the case of a nuclear war in the region, the Middle East would very likely be in very bad condition afterwards.
I'm not too sure about the Manicougan impact. It coincided with a large mass extinction in the late Triassic, not as massive as that of the dinosaurs some 140 million years later, but reptiles, ammonites, and amphibians were reduced as much as 75%.

And when someone says "if the whole Middle East goes up in a nuclear fireball" I imagine this enormous explosion splitting Earth from Libya to Pakistan. That would be noticeable.

I'm not too sure about the Manicougan impact. It coincided with a large mass extinction in the late Triassic, not as massive as that of the dinosaurs some 140 million years later, but reptiles, ammonites, and amphibians were reduced as much as 75%.

And when someone says "if the whole Middle East goes up in a nuclear fireball" I imagine this enormous explosion splitting Earth from Libya to Pakistan. That would be noticeable.

The mass extinction was at the Triassic/Jurassic boundary (about 199 million years ago). And the Manicouagan crater has an age of 214 million years (+/- 2 million years for each value).

The mass extinction was at the Triassic/Jurassic boundary (about 199 million years ago). And the Manicouagan crater has an age of 214 million years (+/- 2 million years for each value).
There was an earlier extinction at the Carnian / Norian boundary, and although it's age has not been defined as precisely it could have (barely) been caused by the Manicougan impact.

There was an earlier extinction at the Carnian / Norian boundary, and although it's age has not been defined as precisely it could have (barely) been caused by the Manicougan impact.

Oh right... Carnian-Norian boundary. I wonder though what died out, since virtually all of the major Triassic groups (Aetosaurs, Dicynodonts, Nothosaurs, Phytosaurs, Placodonts, Rauisuchians and Rhynchosaurs) survived until the end of the Triassic. I reckon though that the diversity of rhynchosaurs and dicynodonts decreaes (perhaps due to competition with the first Dinosaurs). However, if it actually was an extinction event at the Carnian/Norian boundary (216 Ma, if i recall right), it might indeed be linked to the Manicouagan impact... :)

If the whole middle east goes up in a nuclear fireball...

and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Then would that mean the end of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (as well as smaller religions like the Druze)? Or would these big three religions carry on and try to rebuild? I am talking here Iran and Israel shoot it out with nukes, Jeruselum is vaporized along with Bethlehem, and all the holy sites there, Saudi Arabia gets nuked and Mecca and Medina cease to exist. Perhaps everyone would become hindus.

Nah, religion doesn't depend on holy sites, it depends on a desire to believe a load of stuff that's not real. Oh, and on conformity and tradition too.

Oh right... Carnian-Norian boundary. I wonder though what died out, since virtually all of the major Triassic groups (Aetosaurs, Dicynodonts, Nothosaurs, Phytosaurs, Placodonts, Rauisuchians and Rhynchosaurs) survived until the end of the Triassic. I reckon though that the diversity of rhynchosaurs and dicynodonts decreaes (perhaps due to competition with the first Dinosaurs). However, if it actually was an extinction event at the Carnian/Norian boundary (216 Ma, if i recall right), it might indeed be linked to the Manicouagan impact... :)
Apparently all families survived but there was a reduction in species, and although there were no big animals, early mammals were enjoying an advantage. The extinction allowed dinosaurs to expand. Pretty much the reverse of what happened 60mya. Then again, more evidence is needed to definitely hang it on the Manicougan impact.

Apparently all families survived but there was a reduction in species, and although there were no big animals, early mammals were enjoying an advantage. The extinction allowed dinosaurs to expand. Pretty much the reverse of what happened 60mya. Then again, more evidence is needed to definitely hang it on the Manicougan impact.

Well, i suggest we should be digging in sediments from Carnian and Norian, then in order find out. :)

Anyways, i think i should go for the day (I do appreciate your input, though ^_^)

2 things:

first, the nuclear winter would probably not destroy so many living species. it doesn't matter, since it would be enought to destroy us. :P

second: that would be the worst thing for at least two religions. without mecca, no islam, since there would be no one traveling over there for the black rock, and that would be a big problem in its fundaments to deal with.

for jews, the problem would be the lost of the temple walls, where they ask for forgiven in a lot of things, among a few other specific site with specific functions. Also trouble. :p

Then would that mean the end of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (as well as smaller religions like the Druze)? Or would these big three religions carry on and try to rebuild? I am talking here Iran and Israel shoot it out with nukes, Jeruselum is vaporized along with Bethlehem, and all the holy sites there, Saudi Arabia gets nuked and Mecca and Medina cease to exist. Perhaps everyone would become hindus.

It might do great harm to Islam and Judaism since so many Muslims and religious Jews live there... but there are almost no Christians in the middle east.

then again, there are prolly a billion muslims outside the middle east, and half of new york city is jewish. hehe

Christianity's lead on souls would grow a lot wider over Islam, which is #2.

on the other hand it WOULD solve the whole israel/palestine issue.

Then would that mean the end of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (as well as smaller religions like the Druze)? Or would these big three religions carry on and try to rebuild? I am talking here Iran and Israel shoot it out with nukes, Jeruselum is vaporized along with Bethlehem, and all the holy sites there, Saudi Arabia gets nuked and Mecca and Medina cease to exist. Perhaps everyone would become hindus.If the Midle East disappears...It would not be the end of Abraham (sp) religions...

but it would be the end of the Israeli bloody wars...

Wow. You're quite an optimist, aren't you? ;)
Ok then:
If a nuclear war were to break out in the middle east, the us, europe and asia would also get involved and everybody would die.(therefore no need for religion anymore.)
Only africa would survive untouched and realize that war could never possibly bring freedom and join in a great union of brotherhood.
Or something along those lines.
Yes! We Africans are the best!

on the other hand it WOULD solve the whole israel/palestine issue.
exactamente

exactamente

Millions of Jewish moms from the US would flock to Israel to get rid of the streaks with Windex.

If the whole middle east goes up in a nuclear fireball...

and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?


See no evil hear no evil ^^

The jews have lost their promise land before. I think it would be alright for them to wait another few million years to let the radiation clear up again.

Christians don't depend on holy sites. Heck if the vatican goes up in smoke, Most would probably say "God Works in mysterious ways". Or "Fark Ye Devil, You may destroy the Lords Rock, but the Lords House is in our hearts".

Muslims.... I think it would be still the same.

But yeah, we might get a Muslim vs Christian war again. Everything involved with Americans, is always pointing at the Christians. Vice versa with Arab states and muslim.

But yeah, we might get a Muslim vs Christian war again.World Christians do not support Israel ethnic cleasing Policies...I dont see why Muslims would attack all of Christianity...

but yes I can see another 911s...

and I dont see Christianity ralling behind the Bushites...

for more info you could google JP2...or other Christrian leaders around the world... and see what they have to say about Palestine.

Yep, people like to blame people. If an asteroid crashed into Mars, people would blame someone. People are morons. People tend to think that everything happens on purpose and someone could have stopped it. Noone can stop stupidity unless that person finds a way to cause the extinction of the human race. Maybe not extinction, but no one lacking common sense would live. Soon after that, stupidity would have a stranglehold on the human race again. That is why we have wars. Wars are because there are stupid people in the world. The US government was too stupid to get rid of the blueprints for the atom bomb after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so some little Soviet b@$t**d decided to let the Soviet Union know how to make nukes. Long story short, we were on the brink of a nuclear holocaust that would have made the Nazi version seem like a tea party. Of course, this all would never have happened if that archduke wasn't assasinated. That person was assasinated. WWI begins. WWI ends and Germany is now poor from war expences and fines. This is the perfect breeding ground for tyranny. 1933-Hitler gains power in Germany by exploiting the crisis. Hitler begins invading countries not too long afterwards. September 1939, Hitler invades Poland, starting off WWII. 12-07-1941: Japan attacks Pearl Harbor. Even though the Japs attacked us, Germany is our prime target. We fear that Hitler may develop the first weapon of mass destruction, so be create the Manhatten project, which is the project that led to the atomin bomb. Germany falls and we nuke Japan a few months later in order to avoid the deaths of hundreds of thousands. In other words, Hiroshima and Nagasaki actually helped lower the casualty count by wiping out thousands instantly, thereby ending the largest war in recorded history for good. The Soviets become the first to steal the bomb, thereby making the cold war worse. Other nations learn how to make nukes. Decades later, the US invades Iraq because of the fear that Saddam might have nukes there. This is because of a massive intelligence mistake that involves many world leaders. The terrorists have since had a recruitment frenzy, one evil dictator is in custody while another is on the run, democracy is now in two nations where it was once thought it might never happen, and half the world hates the Us while the other half is either in love with it or is undecided.

Well, Islam would suffer a tremendous blow, but it has spread enough that it would survive. Most Christians and Jews don't even live in the Middle East, so it wouldn't do much either. Whoever wrote this thread is obviously ignorant of religion. We don't worship scraps of land. Some places may be holy, but their destruction is in the end fairly insignificant, for we worship God, not places on a map.

Then would that mean the end of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (as well as smaller religions like the Druze)? Or would these big three religions carry on and try to rebuild? I am talking here Iran and Israel shoot it out with nukes, Jeruselum is vaporized along with Bethlehem, and all the holy sites there, Saudi Arabia gets nuked and Mecca and Medina cease to exist. Perhaps everyone would become hindus.
There'd be a lot fewer pilgrimages. Tourist industry would take it on the chin. None of those religions depend on relics and holy sites to function. Well, maybe the Catholics would suffer a setback.

I personally think that the effects of nuclear winter are vastly overestimated. Simply because we didn't experience one so far. As an analogy, the supposed 'impact winters' from asteroid impacts seem to have had insignficant effect on the biosphere despite the yield from some of them was many times higher than that of all nuclear weapons we have today.

asteroid impact.... insignificant effects???... 65million years ago an asteroid hit the Yucatan peninsula... b/c of that, 90% of the organisms on earth died... including the dinosaurs. this is scientific fact... so the impact winter would be devastating.... the dust kicked up from such a multitude of nukes will travel with the wind currents, eventually making its way to the atmosphere, possibly blocking out the sun. vegetation would die.. then the animals will die shortly after.... i dont mean to sound all: The Day After Tomorrowish... or Apacolypsey.. but its one of the few possibilities of a nuclear winter.

asteroid impact.... insignificant effects???... 65million years ago an asteroid hit the Yucatan peninsula... b/c of that, 90% of the organisms on earth died... including the dinosaurs. this is scientific fact... so the impact winter would be devastating.... the dust kicked up from such a multitude of nukes will travel with the wind currents, eventually making its way to the atmosphere, possibly blocking out the sun. vegetation would die.. then the animals will die shortly after.... i dont mean to sound all: The Day After Tomorrowish... or Apacolypsey.. but its one of the few possibilities of a nuclear winter.

Yes, asteroid impacts with insignificant effects. There are over 120 impact craters on Earth of which many are large and only few can be taken into connection with a mass extinction event. And 65 million years ago, only 50-60% of all life became extinct (that with the 90% was 250 million years ago at the Permian/Triassic boundary). And the problem about the Chicxulub impact is that it's slighly older than the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary. Besides, for blocking the sun you need a constant production of ash/dust into the atmosphere (like from volcanism). The 'fallout' from an asteroid impact would probably only stay in the air for a few weeks or so. And finally, the dinosaurs survived the impact by circa 100,000 to 300,000 years...

Meh .... nothing would change. If the Qiblah were blown up, Muslims could still pray towards where it was. We pray to Allah, not to a rock. We face the Qiblah as instructed in Qur'an 2:144, but it isn't essential when it comes to prayer.

Consider Qur'an 2:186 "...I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me...."

Islam would be just fine. You can't nuke Allah.

Judaism has survived all manner of "destruction" in its history and while it's not as strong as it was in the past, its culture and influence is still global.

Christianity relies only upon the teachings and resurrection of Jesus. Impossible to nuke that.

Sorry, man, but you're going to have to deal with us religious types being in the world for the rest of your life.