NationStates Jolt Archive

That's right! The Amerjihad against the liberals continues!

http://www.wlos.com/news/news.shtml#story3
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/5/211218/4946

Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.

East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.

And these sorts of organisations are tax exempt. :rolleyes:

Screw them. This is a divided country these days, and there really aren't many institutions around any more that contain people of different sociopolitical alignments any more. Usually, the divisions are voluntary. The fascist right has taken over organized religion in the US, unfortunately, but I'd say my chances of getting in the almighty's good graces are a lot better by staying out of church and not participating in the religious right's perverse jihads.

Your point? Playgirl fired someone who outed herself as a republican. Boofuckinghoo

I don't know why but I just find that funny as hell. If the church was really that bent toward the Reps why the heck would the Dem members want to stay anyway? Also, I've heard of legalism in the church but this, heh heh, this is just sweet in its rediculousness.

And these sorts of organisations are tax exempt. :rolleyes:
Next election they'll be running ads of a lynching victim and saying to vote against the Democratic candidate. :rolleyes:

*rolls eyes*

Next election they'll be running ads of a lynching victim and saying to vote against the Democratic candidate. :rolleyes:
*cough* Which side has the Kleagle Byrd in their arsenal again?

*cough* Which side has the Kleagle Byrd in their arsenal again?
FORMER kkk member.

FORMER kkk member.

What, he saw the...err...dark? ;)

FORMER kkk member.

So Playgirl has the right to fire her because she was a former KKK member? That is open liscense for any business to fire anyone because of a former group membership.
"Oh, you were a member of PETA 10 years ago? Sorry, you're fired."
"Member of the Democratic Party? Sorry, can't have you types around here. Your fired."

Com'on, you really support that idea?

So Playgirl has the right to fire her because she was a former KKK member? That is open liscense for any business to fire anyone because of a former group membership.
"Oh, you were a member of PETA 10 years ago? Sorry, you're fired."
"Member of the Democratic Party? Sorry, can't have you types around here. Your fired."

Com'on, you really support that idea?
No, they fired her because she was a republican. The Kleagle is Senator Robert Byrd (D). Two separate things.

So much for separation of church and state. :rolleyes:

So Playgirl has the right to fire her because she was a former KKK member? That is open liscense for any business to fire anyone because of a former group membership.
"Oh, you were a member of PETA 10 years ago? Sorry, you're fired."
"Member of the Democratic Party? Sorry, can't have you types around here. Your fired."

Com'on, you really support that idea?

I'm a person of color, so I may have a lot influencing my decision. If I found out someone was a former KKK member I would certainly feel the need to fire them, but I wouldn't do it. I might not treat them with the respect of a human being afterwards, but I wouldn't fire them.

I always said that baptist churches were evil. More proof at:

Don't link there

*cough* Which side has the Kleagle Byrd in their arsenal again?
I dig how people bring up Byrd's short time 50+ years ago while ignoring David Duke. I mean, if you're calling people out, be consistant.

And no, it is not okay for Playgirl to have fired someone for being republican. Where did you get the impression that it was okay?

[EDIT] I should, for clarity, state that it is technically okay for this church to do this in that they have every right-just like we have the right to shake our heads at them and call them silly.

No, they fired her because she was a republican. The Kleagle is Senator Robert Byrd (D). Two separate things.

You know, that is just really embarrassing when I do that! Even read every post and just completely miss the point. aaaaarg! :headbang:

Since the Bible never states that Democrats are not welcome in the Kingdom of Heaven, nor did Jesus say "Suffer only the Republicans to come unto me", I can only assume that the people running this particular Baptist church worship George Bush rather than Christ.

Since the Bible never states that Democrats are not welcome in the Kingdom of Heaven, nor did Jesus say "Suffer only the Republicans to come unto me", I can only assume that the people running this particular Baptist church worship George Bush rather than Christ.
I'd say thats probably right...maybe they are using a particularly odd interpretation of 'render unto Ceasar

I always said that baptist churches were evil. More proof at:

Don't link there

That site makes me so sad. Little kids forced to wear godhatesfags.com t-shirts. I want to cry. :(

*Sigh*
People, just because some nutjob preacher fellow in Hicville North Carolina asks Democrats to leave his church doesnt mean that OMG ALLCHRISTIANSAREPLANNINGTOKILLUSBURNTHEMATTHESTAKE!
It means that the guy is a jackass and doesnt deserve his job.
Please, dont put me in the same group as this sort of person, its sort of like comparing all Germans to Hitler.

So Playgirl has the right to fire her because she was a former KKK member? That is open liscense for any business to fire anyone because of a former group membership.
"Oh, you were a member of PETA 10 years ago? Sorry, you're fired."
"Member of the Democratic Party? Sorry, can't have you types around here. Your fired."

Com'on, you really support that idea?
Byrd. Ya know, the Senator from West Virginia?

Your point? Playgirl fired someone who outed herself as a republican. Boofuckinghoo
Last I checked, Playgirl was not a tax-exempt organization.

[EDIT] I should, for clarity, state that it is technically okay for this church to do this in that they have every right-just like we have the right to shake our heads at them and call them silly.
A church has every right to state political opinions like the ones being espoused by this church...ONCE THEY GIVE UP THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS. The rules are very clear, and a religious organization receiving tax exemption is NOT allowed to endorse a specific political party or candidate. If this church wants to endorse Bush then it MUST give up its tax exempt status. These people need to play by the same rules as everyone else, and stop expecting special treatment.

I started a thread on this same topic earlier today (Title is "Let's sick the IRS on them!"), so here's the founding post of that thread:

Recognized American religious organizations are tax exempt so long as they do not directly endorse political candidates or specific parties. This is not a new rule, this is not news to any religious organization, and the IRS is very clear about it.

Now, putting aside my personal reasons for thinking that any such tax exemptions are pure crap in the first place, what I really want to know now is WHAT THE CRAP IS THIS??

http://www.spiffarino.completelyfre...images/wlos.wmv

A church in North Carolina has excommunicated all members who refused to support President Bush and the Republican party. Individuals who voted Democrat were first commanded to repent, and then simply kicked out of the church en mass while the remaining "Right-eous" congregation stood and applauded.

The pastor who initiated this interesting little romp insists that it was "not political." Is there any reason at all why the IRS should believe that? Is there a reason why these people should be regarded as anything more than a pathetic and twisted cult? If the KKK can't receive tax-exempt status, why can this group of bigots?

EDIT: The link above appears to be problematic for some people. Here's a link to a page that has several video clips and story links on this outbreak of the American Taliban... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/5/211218/4946

That site makes me so sad. Little kids forced to wear godhatesfags.com t-shirts. I want to cry. :(
The link doesn't work.

A church scandal that doesn't involve children, merely people BEHAVING like children...

Just goes to show that no one group has a lock on idiocy. :(

Wonder what all that is about...
If you mean that you don't know why that message is showing up, it's because at some point you put Bottle on your ignore list. If you wish to remove Bottle from that list, you should be able to do it here (http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/profile.php?do=editlist).

Of course, this is all on the tentative assumption that you actually don't know why Bottle's messages aren't showing up.

It is now official that some parts of this country are no better than the Taliban they wanted to bomb. And I have documentary proof! I say it's time to bring tolerance and democracy to North Carolina!

A church has every right to state political opinions like the ones being espoused by this church...ONCE THEY GIVE UP THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS. The rules are very clear, and a religious organization receiving tax exemption is NOT allowed to endorse a specific political party or candidate. If this church wants to endorse Bush then it MUST give up its tax exempt status. These people need to play by the same rules as everyone else, and stop expecting special treatment.
You're right, forgot about that part.

It is now official that some parts of this country are no better than the Taliban they wanted to bomb. And I have documentary proof! I say it's time to bring tolerance and democracy to North Carolina!

Er... it's official that some people are idiots. It's a bit of a stretch to compare being asked to leave a church (absurdly wrong as that is) and the Taleban.

The word stupidity takes on a terrifying new meaning.

Er... it's official that some people are idiots. It's a bit of a stretch to compare being asked to leave a church (absurdly wrong as that is) and the Taleban.
I dont think that Baptists are especialy infamous for their torturing people to death for using electronics...we generaly dont kill women for showing their faces in public either.

We all know Bush is such a wonderful example of Christian values like love and charity, so it's natural they should support him! Those Democrats, them and their consciences and independent thinking, and logic.... :rolleyes:

I dont think that Baptists are especialy infamous for their torturing people to death for using electronics...we generaly dont kill women for showing their faces in public either.

True. That's typically Methodist behavior... JUST KIDDING!! :D

...we generaly dont kill women for showing their faces in public either.

I guess it depends on what they look like.

[rimshot]

Is this thing on?

If the IRS threatens those Babtists tax exempt status they'll be beating the bushs (he he) for Democrats to join the congregation.

When I used to frequent Paltalk (before I got tired of the racist, religiously bigotted rhetoric that passed as Social Issues Debate) I heard this American bloke tell a story about how when he went to Afghanistan to "serve his country"* and therefore couldn't attend his local church back at home in the US, his church kicked him out of the congregation because he hadn't kept up his "tithing obligations" to the church while he was overseas. He was a pretty devout Christian and was devastated to find he'd been kicked out when he got back from the war.

He said his church was one of those mainstream pentacostal-flavoured ones but he wasn't specific as to whether it was baptist or what. It makes you wonder how many churches today are recruiting members for materialistic, unchristian goals rather than as to serve the need for spiritual fellowship.

*His definition of "Serving his country" (invading for Bush's objectives) differs from my definition of serving one's country (defending one's country for accurate reasons).

Risking generalization, I'd say that many Southern Baptist and Pentecostal/Charismatic/Evangelical mega-churches are more like businesses than churches and should indeed be taxed. The revenue generated from their land holdings alone might pay for a few more months of war.

Honestly, though, this behavior shouldn't surprise anyone -- this is the same denomination that contains Fred Phelps and his cronies who travel across the country picketing performances of The Laramie Project...even the one in my college town of barely 12,000 people in Ellensburg, WA, some 2200 miles away from Kansas (where Phelps resides). It's a shame people this dedicated to a principle can't find a better one to support. Say, homelessness, foster children, hunger/food banks, but no -- that might be something Christ would do.

They boycotted Disney, for cryin' out loud. Yes, they unnerve me, but I know that the majority of Christians are far more reasonable than some rural nutjob in North Carolina who wants to be a Tar-Heeled Fred Phelps. I am more amused than worried, and I'm only a little worried.

Er... it's official that some people are idiots. It's a bit of a stretch to compare being asked to leave a church (absurdly wrong as that is) and the Taleban.

Well, think of it this way, not only were they asked to leave the church, they were denied entry to their place of worship, ex-communicated, and told they were going to hell. (Read both articles)

That's a bit of a stretch to say they were simply "asked to leave" they were condemmed to an eternity of damnation for "voting the wrong way". I would suggest that actually, it IS roughly in line with taliban-type intolerance.

The Taliban didn't kill every person who wasn't Muslim either remember; but they did believe that everyone who didn't follow their code was dammed, and refused those who didn't believe access to their holy sites.

I'm glad.

It means there's a slight chance those people will realize how much BS they're surrounded by. If they don't move on to something less insane in regards to belief, at the very least, they'll move away from one of the worst versions of Christianity.

Well, think of it this way, not only were they asked to leave the church, they were denied entry to their place of worship, ex-communicated, and told they were going to hell. (Read both articles)

That's a bit of a stretch to say they were simply "asked to leave" they were condemmed to an eternity of damnation for "voting the wrong way". I would suggest that actually, it IS roughly in line with taliban-type intolerance.

The Taliban didn't kill every person who wasn't Muslim either remember; but they did believe that everyone who didn't follow their code was dammed, and refused those who didn't believe access to their holy sites.

Ah but by the same token, they are free to join another congregation, yes?
The Baptists are not running the country, nor are they violently punishing these people for flying kites.

It's definitely bad, but I'd approximate this to being more of a Segregation-type evil instead of a Totalitarian-type evil.

Ah but by the same token, they are free to join another congregation, yes?
The Baptists are not running the country, nor are they violently punishing these people for flying kites.

It's definitely bad, but I'd approximate this to being more of a Segregation-type evil instead of a Totalitarian-type evil.

Hmm...perhaps we are talking about degree, rather than type. I'm postulating that these people have different degrees of power, but the same highly intolerant beliefs that lead them to do these things. That, if they stumbled into power like the taliban, they'd be just about as nasty to people.

Thus same type, different degrees.

Hmm...perhaps we are talking about degree, rather than type. I'm postulating that these people have different degrees of power, but the same highly intolerant beliefs that lead them to do these things. That, if they stumbled into power like the taliban, they'd be just about as nasty to people.

Thus same type, different degrees.

I can go with that...

The Baptists (fortuantely) are only the Church, vs. the Taleban, which was the Chuch & State, but both are highly intolerant. (Fortunately, the B's only weild so much power...)

Shoot. Image if they *did*. Bagels & schmeres of lox cream cheese repalced with grits in Midtown! (Does Ned Flanders-esque "Nooooooooo!") :D

It would have to be in North Carolina! Groan! :(

This message is hidden because Bottle is on your ignore list.Wonder what all that is about...
The Great Sixth Reich, bragging about your Ignore list is considered flamebaiting. Knock it off, NOW.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023)

btw, NC newspapers this morning report that the Legislature is talking about revoking the church's tax exempt status.

Your point? Playgirl fired someone who outed herself as a republican. Boofuckinghoo
My point it that it's very dangerous for religion to become that entwined with politics. However the preacher has the right to do it i suppose, but people should not be fired from work for their political orientation. In my country it's actually illegal I think.

FORMER kkk member.
But still as much of a racist Southerner as he ever was.

If the KKK can't receive tax-exempt status, why can this group of bigots?
Can the KKK even achieve legal status? :D

It would have to be in North Carolina! Groan! :(
To think you made a thread groaning about Kansas. Tut tut!

Remove the log from thine own eye before removing the speck from thy brothers'.

PS> Looks like the church may find itself either with a new pastor by next week, or some taxes to pay! :D

It's not just in NC. One of my close friends (and former NS player) and his mother, got kicked out of our local So. Baptist church because they argued with the preacher (and being Dems). Now my friend won't even think about going to that church. Besides, churches (espically in Bible belt) have become more like corporations who don't help the poor.

Why was a democrat in a baptist church in the first place? Eww!

Do any of the religious folk out there have an opinion on this? Aren't there any Christians willing to stand up for equality under the law?

I find it strange that so many people are getting upset because some church decided to expel a few members. For all I care they can decide to expel everyone who is right handed. or left handed for that matter. I just plain don't give a crap.

I find it strange that so many people are getting upset because some church decided to expel a few members. For all I care they can decide to expel everyone who is right handed. or left handed for that matter. I just plain don't give a crap.
Read the thread. I don't give a crap who a church chooses to kick out, but I certainly do care about organizations that break the law and refuse to pay their taxes. I have a problem with organizations getting tax-exempt status even though they publicly flout the rules the IRS sets down. Why should any of us bother following the rules, if the "holiest" among us don't bother doing so? Why should my tax dollars help support North Carolina (which they do), if their churches are going to be permitted to dodge tax responsibilities despite grossly violating tax law?

so your point is that they should be paying taxes?
ok. I'll go along with that.
Sorry. I aparently missed that part.

Do any of the religious folk out there have an opinion on this? Aren't there any Christians willing to stand up for equality under the law?

I'm sure there are some Christians, somewhere, who will do so. Personally, I agree with Kholar in that I think they can kick anyone out for whatever reason, no matter how stupid it is. I don't necessarily agree with the tax law that applies in this case, but yes, I do think it should be applied equitably if we must have it.

I don't see how it's much different than, for example, the Pope excommunicating a Catholic for not keeping in line with Church doctrine. It's fair game, the Priest/Preacher is supposed to be a shephard of his flock, and if they think that certain political ideas are bad for the integrity of the institution, they probably are OBLIGATED to kick you out if you won't change.

If church and state don't mix, don't expect to bring politics into church and not expect consequences.

Pastor resigns after controversy draws national attention (http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050512/HAYWOODCOUNTYNEWS01/50511024/1119/HaywoodCountyNews)

Jesus accepted theives, murderers, prostitutes, and tax collectors. There is something wrong with a congregation that will kick people out over politics.

I don't see how it's much different than, for example, the Pope excommunicating a Catholic for not keeping in line with Church doctrine. It's fair game, the Priest/Preacher is supposed to be a shephard of his flock, and if they think that certain political ideas are bad for the integrity of the institution, they probably are OBLIGATED to kick you out if you won't change.

If church and state don't mix, don't expect to bring politics into church and not expect consequences.

It IS different. The Catholic Chuch isn't saying "you must vote Green or Democratic or Republican". Your example doesn't make a lot of sense: Anybody can be kicked out of any church for not following doctrine. Fine. But the Catholic Church won't kick you out for being a Democrat, Republican, Vegetarian, or and alcoholic. But a Satanist? You betcha.

I was trying to point out that sometimes supporting a political party can entail going against doctrine and it's up to the Church to decide how it punishes those who do. For example, if you support abortion rights and that was your cause for voting Democrat, but your church doesn't believe in abortion rights, you have to expect some sort of punishment as a member.

The baptist Church was started because thier Church of Engand fore-fathers objected to slavery. The platation owners in the colonies, (Rhode Island at the time) had to justify thier inhuman behavior somehow, hence the Baptist Church. The truly sad thing is that no one seems to care that the Southern Baptist convention has hijacked the Republican party and are doing thier "christian" song and dance to distract thier planned rise of the Fourth Reich. Once thier mask is removed the true identy of the Southern Baptists as the inheritors of the Nazi party will be exposed.

Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated."

Muh?

Well, think of it this way, not only were they asked to leave the church, they were denied entry to their place of worship, ex-communicated, and told they were going to hell. (Read both articles)

That's a bit of a stretch to say they were simply "asked to leave" they were condemmed to an eternity of damnation for "voting the wrong way". I would suggest that actually, it IS roughly in line with taliban-type intolerance.

The Taliban didn't kill every person who wasn't Muslim either remember; but they did believe that everyone who didn't follow their code was dammed, and refused those who didn't believe access to their holy sites.

That's catholic excommunication. Since Baptists are highly congregational, I'm not sure exactly what they mean by "excommunication".

I know, at least in the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America), that "excommunication" is official pronouncement made by the Session (ruling elders of a particular congregation) of a members "non-communicative" status because of sin.... It's a barment from Communion (the Lord's Supper), and not from attendence with the church (though it sets a person as a "non-communicate member", and thus is ineligible to vote as a member of the congregation). It has no binding aspect towards the eternal state of the person.

Can't speak for what this particular Baptist church thinks of it though.

It IS different. The Catholic Chuch isn't saying "you must vote Green or Democratic or Republican". Your example doesn't make a lot of sense: Anybody can be kicked out of any church for not following doctrine. Fine. But the Catholic Church won't kick you out for being a Democrat, Republican, Vegetarian, or and alcoholic. But a Satanist? You betcha.

Sure. As a Catholic, I can say pretty firmly that being a Satanist, Laveyan or otherwise, would get you kicked out of the Catholic church. :D

That's right! The Amerjihad against the liberals continues!

http://www.wlos.com/news/news.shtml#story3
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/5/211218/4946

You CAN report this to national news can't you? Or get more press regarding this church. The government can't get involved, but the press sure can put this extremism on display.

You CAN report this to national news can't you? Or get more press regarding this church. The government can't get involved, but the press sure can put this extremism on display.
The government can indeed get involved if it can be shown that the church is not politically neutral.