NationStates Jolt Archive


Morality

SorenKierkegaard
06-05-2005, 22:36
Every one has heard people quarrelling. Sometimes it sounds funny and sometimes it sounds merely unpleasant; but however it sounds, I believe we can learn something very important from listening to the kind of things they say. They say things like this: 'How'd you like it if anyone did the same to you?' -- 'That's my seat, I was there first' -- 'Leave him alone, he isn't doing you any harm' -- 'Why should you shove in first?' -- 'Give me a bit of your orange, I gave you a bit of mine' -- 'Come on, you promised.' People say things like that every day, educated people as well as uneducated, and children as well as grown-ups.

Now what interests me about all these remarks is that the man who makes them is not merely saying that the other man's behaviour does not happen to please him. He is appealing to some kind of standard of behaviour which he expects the other man to know about. And the other man very seldom replies: 'To hell with your standard.' Nearly always he tries to make out that what he has been doing does not really go against the standard, or that if it does there is some special excuse. He pretends there is some special reason in this particular case why the person who took the seat first should not keep it, or that things were quite different when he was given the bit of orange, or that something has turned up which lets him off keeping his promise. It looks, in fact, very much as if both parties had in mind some kind of Law or Rule of fair play or decent behaviour or morality or whatever you like to call it, about which they really agreed. And they have. If they had not, they might, of course, fight like animals, but they could not quarrel in the human sense of the word. Quarrelling means trying to show that the other man is in the wrong. And there would be no sense in trying to do that unless you and he had some sort of agreement as to what Right and Wrong are; just as there would be no sense in saying that a footballer had committed a foul unless there was some agreement about the rules of football.

Now this Law or Rule about Right and Wrong used to be called the Law of Nature. Nowadays, when we talk of the 'laws of nature' we usually mean things like gravitation, or heredity, or the laws of chemistry. But when the older thinkers called the Law of Right and Wrong 'the Law of Nature', they really meant the Law of Human Nature. The idea was that, just as all bodies are governed by the law of gravitation, and organisms by biological laws, so the creature called man also had his law-with this great difference, that a body could not choose whether it obeyed the law of gravitation or not, but a man could choose either to obey the Law of Human Nature or to disobey it.

We may put this in another way. Each man is at every moment subjected to several different sets of law but there is only one of these which he is free to disobey. As a body, he is subjected to gravitation and cannot disobey it; if you leave him unsupported in mid-air, he has no more choice about falling than a stone has. As an organism, he is subjected to various biological laws which he cannot disobey any more than an animal can. That is, he cannot disobey those laws which he shares with other things; but the law which is peculiar to his human nature, the law he does not share with animals or vegetables or inorganic things, is the one he can disobey if he chooses.

This law was called the Law of Nature because people thought that every one knew it by nature and did not need to be taught it. They did not mean, of course, that you might not find an odd individual here and there who did not know it, just as you find a few people who are colour-blind or have no ear for a tune. But taking the race as a whole, they thought that the human idea of decent behaviour was obvious to every one. And I believe they were right. If they were not, then all the things we said about the war were nonsense. What was the sense in saying the enemy were in the wrong unless Right is a real thing which the Nazis at bottom knew as well as we did and ought to have practised? If they had had no notion of what we mean by right, then, though we might still have had to fight them, we could no more have blamed them for that than for the colour of their hair.

I know that some people say the idea of a Law of Nature or decent behaviour known to all men is unsound, because different civilisations and different ages have had quite different moralities.

But this is not true. There have been differences between their moralities, but these have never amounted to anything like a total difference. If anyone will take the trouble to compare the moral teaching of, say, the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Hindus, Chinese, Greeks and Romans, what will really strike him will be how very like they are to each other and to our own. Some of the evidence for this I have put together in the appendix of another book called The Abolition of Man; but for our present purpose I need only ask the reader to think what a totally different morality would mean. Think of a country where people were admired for running away in battle, or where a man felt proud of double-crossing all the people who had been kindest to him. You might just as well try to imagine a country where two and two made five. Men have differed as regards what people you ought to be unselfish to-whether it was only your own family, or your fellow countrymen, or every one. But they have always agreed that you ought not to put yourself first. Selfishness has never been admired. Men have differed as to whether you should have one wife or four. But they have always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked.



So... What do you think? Is there a certian inane morality to man? I tend to agree with Lewis.
Robbopolis
06-05-2005, 22:38
While morality varies quite a bit across the globe, it is interesting that every culture seems to have some sort of moral code.
Vittos Ordination
06-05-2005, 22:52
Morality is just the application of sympathy. Almost every individual has the power for sympathy, every individual applies it differently.
Cabra West
06-05-2005, 23:12
Lewis isn't really talking about moral here (to me, that word always has some philosophical, if not religious undertone, which I think is inappropriate in this context) but rather about fundamental social rules and behaviour. This is not sometihng exclusively human, most mamals have some sort of social ruleset.
These rule actually make social life possible in the first place. Without them, no groups could exist over a longer period of time, be it a human state or a pride of lions.
The more advanced the social life gets the more advanced the rules have to become. Left on its own terms, a human child would not acquire any understanding of these rules, they are not instincts as Lewis suggests, but rather something we learn from a very early age. It has been observed for example that chimps who grew up outside of a famliy group are having a very hard time to fit into one later in life, it is almost impossible for them. They simply don't understand the rules.
I would think that this is also the reason why these forms of behaviour are so similar everywhere on earth, in every human society. They are what allow that society to work, without them it couldn't exist.
But the similarities will soon end once you leave the basics - respect for others, compassion, determination, comittment to the group - and you will find that moral behaviour can differ immensly from one culture to the other
Tluiko
07-05-2005, 00:24
What was the sense in saying the enemy were in the wrong unless Right is a real thing which the Nazis at bottom knew as well as we did and ought to have practised? If they had had no notion of what we mean by right, then, though we might still have had to fight them, we could no more have blamed them for that than for the colour of their hair.

The Nazis were quite convinced by their own opinion and so was a relatively big part of the Germans.
Even in the 60ies (more than 15 years after Germany was liberated) some people had Nazi-ideas deep in their mind, and im speaking about educated sophisticated people, not about those neonazis. That is how nazis in fact knew right from wrong. (though I do not think a moral objetive exists, but thats another topic).
Moreover many Nazis (especially those who played an important role in the Third Reich) committed suicide when they lost the war.
Mentholyptus
07-05-2005, 00:27
So... What do you think? Is there a certian inane morality to man? I tend to agree with Lewis.
I think that Lewis' concepts of morality are inane, yes. Unless, of course, you meant innate, in which case we've opened a whole other can of worms here... :rolleyes:
Phylum Chordata
07-05-2005, 01:41
Morality is a short cut for rational thought. Rather than think through the ramifications of our actions, (Will I be punished? What will people think of me? Am I hurting my social group by doing this?), people fall back on a set of rules that get called morality. These rules can be very useful guides and save people a lot of time and effort. Problems begin when people forget that these rules are merely shortcuts and reguard them as absolutes, and refuse to think rationally about them.

For example, "don't commit murder," is almost always a good rule to follow. However problems can arise when people follow this rule blindly. For example, people may simply state, "Abortion is murder," and refuse to discuss the pros and cons of allowing people to have abortions. After rational discussion, people may still decide to follow the rule, but many people refuse to discuss morality rationally.

Some similarities exist between the morality of many cultures, because some similar rules are required for civilisations to exist. But morality varys greatly over time and place. Two hundred years ago many Americans were slaves. One hundred years ago it was usually not considered a crime for a man to rape his wife.

Morality is generally something that helps people to survive. As humans all tend to try to survive (at least the ones that are alive do) then you could say morality is a universal human trait. But it arises because of its survival value. There is no evidence that it is something seperate, tacked on by a god, or the result of the force that binds the universe together, or other magic.
Boodicka
07-05-2005, 08:27
Morality is just the application of sympathy. Almost every individual has the power for sympathy, every individual applies it differently.
I would say it's empathy, not sympathy. I would prefer that my quarrel-partner had empathy for me, not sympathy, because sympathy implies some element of pity. And I don't need no stinkin' pity! :p

Morality is a short cut for rational thought. Rather than think through the ramifications of our actions, (Will I be punished? What will people think of me? Am I hurting my social group by doing this?), people fall back on a set of rules that get called morality.
Yes. A basis for a behavioural heuristic. I agree.

I'm coming from a reductionist framework (reductionism is my current phase - I pick up philosophies the way some women pick up fashion trends) so I would say that evolutionarily, a set of ethical standards would be necessary for early humans to interact, and thereby share food/water/shelter. Kind of like an unspoken agreement to not kill the competition, but instead share the water source, the task of killing, etc. Morals become more and more refined as human society advances. They underly the communality of all groups of people. Thats why all cultures seem to have a standard of behaviour. Of course, they mustn't serve as unadulterated laws, but as guidelines for establishing what is acceptable in each circumstance.