NationStates Jolt Archive

(I got most of this from www.tcrnews2.com btw. I just wanted to thank the site. I added a few lines I thought helped, as I do think Wicca could be a gateway to even worse occultism like Satanism, but I borrowed most.)

Q: What is Wicca?

It is a neo-pagan cult that originated in the Anglo-Saxon world and appears as a sort of "good witchcraft" (no such thing though). It is neither a sect nor an organization with specific leaders and structures. It is simply a current of esoteric thought that any person can follow without any particular commitment.

Q: What does this current of thought suggest?

It is a mixture of paganism, magic, superstition, and dangerous witchcraft. In addition, it gives exaggerated veneration to nature, to the point of divinizing and adoring it. Wicca followers believe in reincarnation, which they regard as an "evolution of the soul." They practice a series of magic rites: from enchantments of love to ceremonies to become rich or "attract money."

At times they turn to spirits, non-physical entities or pagan false-gods, such as praying to the "horned god."

Q: Why does Wicca appear as "good witchcraft"?

Because Wicca followers say that they don't want to harm anyone and that they reject Satanism (yet they accept witchcraft, a favorite of the devil). However, from my point of view, Wicca cannot be regarded as a positive cult.

However, it suggests rituals that seek to exercise power over people. However, human beings are not puppets who can be controlled as one wishes.

Another negative aspect is that of superstition. Wicca followers are convinced that stones, herbs and the wind contain particular energies capable of producing effects on daily life. Thus they end up by becoming slaves to objects, idols, amulets and talismans. Not to mention quite simply it is occultism, enough said.

Q: Is it true that Wicca is popular among young people?

Unfortunately, yes. Some movies and telefilms have made Wicca popular. Some magazines for adolescents also speak of it frequently, proposing it as a kind of "alternative religion."

Girls in particular are fascinated by the idea of being "good witches," and they use Wicca rituals to solve problems of daily life. They shut themselves in their room and prepare real ceremonies with candles, idols, incense and little altars dedicated to some strange pagan divinity or evil demon.

Q: Do you think this has risks?

The risk of hiding behind Wicca is clear. It is the invitation to believe that there is a "good magic," a kind of "ally" to resolve the problems of everyday life -- a life that, in the case of many young people, is dominated by loneliness, the absence of conversation in the family, difficulties with studies and with the first steps in the working world.

When one is alone it is easier to be a victim of magic and superstition. One latches on to everything, including an amulet. From my point of view, Wicca finds fertile ground in the life of many young people who are often faced with difficult family situations, lack of communication, silence, disappointments and uncertainty about the future.

Q: What effect can Wicca have on young people's behavior?

In the long term, there is the risk of spreading lack of commitment among young people. They trust something that is outside their own life to resolve a problem. Young people refuse to be committed to achieve an objective, leaving everything in the hands of the so-called energies of some ritual or amulet.

It is the law of "I want everything now." Do I like a girl? Instead of winning her over by being pleasant and tender, the Wicca follower will turn to a magic rite. Do I have doubts about the future? Instead of using his head to find an intelligent solution to the problem, he entrusts himself to Wicca. The same thing happens with school and university examinations.

Also, Wicca can be seen as a gateway to even worse occultism. One day one could be a Wicca, the next the could be a Satanist or Luciferian.

Oh not this guy again...

And I LOVE the argument that Wicca is somehow the 'marijuana' of spirituality that may lead to the more 'hardcore drug addiction' of Satanism and so on.. :D

I like you; you're funny.

Edit: I originally meant this as a reply to the whole "Dangers of Wicca" thing, but it applies just as well with Sinihue's response.

Commando3']Q: What does this current of thought suggest?

It is a mixture of paganism, magic, superstition, and dangerous witchcraft. In addition, it gives exaggerated veneration to nature, to the point of divinizing and adoring it. Wicca followers believe in reincarnation, which they regard as an "evolution of the soul." They practice a series of magic rites: from enchantments of love to ceremonies to become rich or "attract money."

(a) Wiccans do not all believe in reincarnation.

(b) Enchantments of love are forbidden, as they harm others.

Commando3']At times they turn to spirits, non-physical entities or pagan false-gods, such as praying to the "horned god."

The "gods" to Wiccans are generally symbols for specific aspects of nature, through which they believe the divine force runs.

Commando3']However, it suggests rituals that seek to exercise power over people. However, human beings are not puppets who can be controlled as one wishes.

Incorrect. Your second sentence is exactly what the principles of Wicca teach. In fact, it teaches that, should you attempt to use human beings in such a way, the harm you cause will come back to you.

Commando3']Another negative aspect is that of superstition. Wicca followers are convinced that stones, herbs and the wind contain particular energies capable of producing effects on daily life. Thus they end up by becoming slaves to objects, idols, amulets and talismans. Not to mention quite simply it is occultism, enough said.

In the belief, the stones, herbs, winds, etc. contain divine energies just as everything in nature does. Channeling that energy (as through a spell) is no different than asking a deity (through prayer) to do something for you.

Commando3']The risk of hiding behind Wicca is clear. It is the invitation to believe that there is a "good magic," a kind of "ally" to resolve the problems of everyday life -- a life that, in the case of many young people, is dominated by loneliness, the absence of conversation in the family, difficulties with studies and with the first steps in the working world.

The idea that one can ask the divine to do something for you is prevalent in all religion. In Chrstiainity, we call it prayer.


You really do amuse me.

christianity spreads hatred, murder, and fear throughout history.

lets compair the number of deaths cause in the name of j.c. to the number of deaths caused by Wicca.

The idea that one can ask the divine to do something for you is prevalent in all religion. In Chrstiainity, we call it prayer.


You really do amuse me.

I am a Christian (Catholic) and I pray to God all the time. However running around a rock or a talisman chanitng is going to do absolutely nothing.

Your ban's just barely over, and you resort to trolling Wiccans this time? Really uninspired.

Commando3']I am a Christian (Catholic) and I pray to God all the time. However running around a rock or a talisman chanitng is going to do absolutely nothing.

Tell that to the pope and his idolatry.

Commando3']In the long term, there is the risk of spreading lack of commitment among young people. They trust something that is outside their own life to resolve a problem.Anyone else's irony gland tingling?

Commando, if you think all magic is evil, what do you describe the power that God wields as then?

Commando3']I am a Christian (Catholic) and I pray to God all the time. However running around a rock or a talisman chanitng is going to do absolutely nothing.

According to your beliefs it does nothing. However, according to the beliefs of a Wiccan, it may work just fine. Who are you to judge?

As long as we're talking talismans, what about the rosary? Isn't that a talisman of a sort? What about holy water? How does that really change/help/solve anything?

So how is believing in Earth spirits and such any crazier than believing in an all-powerful invisible man in the sky?

Christianity is the worship of fake God this pleases Satan greatly

Anyone else's irony gland tingling?

I don't think I could discuss it without getting warned about the content of my post...

was he banned 4 trolling?

I think his point is that it makes sense for him to go through religious rituals, since his god is evidently real. By the same token, it is foolishness for members of other religions to do the same, since their god is evidently not.

Well, I never said that it was a good point.

Go team go! *pulls out a bag of popcorn and watches the show*

Tell that to the pope and his idolatry.

The Pope serves God and God alone. The occultist serves rocks and beads and idols.

Why is it always the Wicca religion that gets shat upon by people? Though not Wicca myself, I can see no harm in a religion that preaches 'do what you will as long as it harms nobody'. Worshipping the earth doesn't seem threatening to me. Futhermore, the idea has been put forth in some of my past discussions on the topic that these people are trying to lure little christian children away from Christianity. Because christians have NEVER gone anywhere and seduced people into becomming Christian.

Commando3']The Pope serves God and God alone. The occultist serves rocks and beads and idols.
Commando, if Wicca is "magic," then what do we call the power that God wields? Just a curious inquiry...

According to your beliefs it does nothing. However, according to the beliefs of a Wiccan, it may work just fine. Who are you to judge?

As long as we're talking talismans, what about the rosary? Isn't that a talisman of a sort? What about holy water? How does that really change/help/solve anything?

The Rosary is a prayer. the whole point of the beads is to help us focus and such. And Holy Water is blessed by God (it can be found in the OT).

Commando3']The Rosary is a prayer. the whole point of the beads is to help us focus and such. And Holy Water is blessed by God (it can be found in the OT).
Same difference.

Commando3']The Pope serves God and God alone. The occultist serves rocks and beads and idols.

Crucifixes, icons, saints, rosary beads, the pope! Idolaters!

It's very funny....

Every Halloween, there's a group of Wikkans who go out onto a beach about 10 miles from my parents home in Ireland and dance naked around a bonfire.

And every year, the cops are out waiting for them and they're all hauled off the the back of a van and fined for indecent exposure.

And they do it again the next year....and the year after that....

My sister was into it a few years back, to be honest, the stuff she came up with was laughable. She called herself a grey witch, someone who was in tune with both her good and evil sides and thought she could cast spells on people. I put it down to drinking too much, killed off too many brain cells

Commando3'] *snip*

You plagarized this bullshit almost word for word from here (http://tcrnews2.com/genoccult.html) or here (http://www.kairos.com.au/pastissues/pastissuesd.asp?ID=297).

But you added a few lies and insults to the already ridiculous text.

I find Wicca rather silly -- almost as silly as Christianity.

But a belief system with the central tenet of "HARM NONE" is a lot less dangerous than your beliefs.

Commando3']I am a Christian (Catholic) and I pray to God all the time. However running around a rock or a talisman chanitng is going to do absolutely nothing.

That is your belief. They might argue that you praying to God or taking Communion is not going to do anything, while their rituals will.

But the principle is still the same.

Commando3']The Rosary is a prayer. the whole point of the beads is to help us focus and such. And Holy Water is blessed by God (it can be found in the OT).

Funny, since the talismans, etc. are simply meant to help a Wiccan focus.

You plagarized this bullshit almost word for word from here (http://tcrnews2.com/genoccult.html) or here (http://www.kairos.com.au/pastissues/pastissuesd.asp?ID=297).

But you added a few lies and insults to the already ridiculous text.

Plagiarism. Couldn't that be seen as a form of copyright infringement and a violation of the TOS?

Commandos right. Wicca is a way for the satan to work his way into the place in your hart that belongs to Jesus. Satan is using wicca to turn little kids into devil worshipers. Playing wiht wicca can lead to all kinds of bad stuff. Demonic posesion homosexualty atheism satanism and human sacrifise all can happen if you start with wicca. So sayeth Jesussaves. Amen.

So sayeth Jesussaves. Amen.
Jesus saves, but the rest take full damage!

Commando3']The Pope serves God and God alone. The occultist serves rocks and beads and idols.
Then we should ignore the idols of Mary, Jesus and all the patron saints of the church? Oh, and isn't the rosary a set of beads? And the idols, are they not in some cases, made of marble, which is like rock/stone?

Although I don't recognize Wiccanism as a real religion (for my own reasons) I don't see why so many people have that kind problem with it. I'm officially Catholic and moderately devoted to it, but a good part of my philosophy comes from Taoism in the sense that I believe in a balance in everything and especially nature. So Wicca and Tao aren't all that different. Why do so many people do have to make such a big deal about Wicca? Is it about the witchcraft? It's not like people are getting hurt because of it.

The wiccans are too busy lighting candles, running around naked with talimans around their necks and chanting to wage war. And yet, it's dangerous? Wasn't the cause of many wars Christianity? AS well as Islam and Judiasm?

EDIT: pardon my stereotype

Commando3']I am a Christian (Catholic) and I pray to God all the time. However running around a rock or a talisman chanitng is going to do absolutely nothing.


I have to say, I do agree. Especially if you do it naked. With people watching. Then you just get laughed at

Don't you love bible beaters? Wicca has nothing to do with Satan, and won't lead to Satanism. People are free to believe what they want, without someone pushing their ideals on them.

Commando3']The Rosary is a prayer. the whole point of the beads is to help us focus and such. And Holy Water is blessed by God (it can be found in the OT).

Now you're talking semantics. The items used in Wiccan ritual have no power unto themselves, they're simply foci. Just like the statues of the Virgin Mary and saints in your cathedrals aren't actually idols...

Don't you love bible beaters? Wicca has nothing to do with Satan, and won't lead to Satanism. People are free to believe what they want, without someone pushing their ideals on them.
This is why they should be rounded up like the sheep they are horded down to the Bible Belt. Then we give them their own country and we can be happy.

Plagiarism. Couldn't that be seen as a form of copyright infringement and a violation of the TOS?
Yes. Max can get sued for this. It has happened before.

Wicca has nothing to do with Satan, and won't lead to Satanism. People are free to believe what they want, without someone pushing their ideals on them.

It is rather bad logic, isn't it? That's like warning against Catholicism because it could lead to Mormonism...

We condemn others for their beliefs and consider them dangerous. Why? Because we don't understand or agree?

Wicca is a fascinating religion, but their primary tenet is "harm not", so I don't see why they are bothering anyone and in all honesty it is the people who try to make them stop their beliefs that are really causing the problem.

And if you don't believe that Catholocism can be dangerous, I would take a good lookat history, specifically the reign of Mary Tudor, before you make that claim. She was Queen before Elizabeth I and she was a devout Catholic who burned protestants at the stake because she wanted revenge for her father divorcing her Catholic mother (and a myriad of other reasons, but that does not excuse her). I believe the law holds true even today that a Catholic ruler cannot hold the throne of England because of all the ruckus she caused (along with several other over-zealous monarchs around that time).

Question: why do all the major religions - Christianity (Puritans, Protestants, Catholics, Born-Agains), Muslims (Suni and Shite - sorry for the spelling), and so on have the worst histories of violence? I mean for God's sake, I thought religion was originally created to give people solace in the unexplained. Why do we have to force our own beliefs onto other people?

Many of my friends are Wiccans, and they don't all dance around idols naked.
If anyone is interested in learning more about Wicca, they can do so here (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_faq.htm).

Funny. My girlfriend has been practicing Wicca for over a year, and so far I havn'y noticed any satanic changes in her.

This is why they should be rounded up like the sheep they are horded down to the Bible Belt. Then we give them their own country and we can be happy.

Nice idea, but already been done. I mean, that's why God made America. To keep the bible beaters as far away from the majority of humanity living on other continents.

I can control nature!

Watch me!

Here I go!

....

Damnit.

Nice idea, but already been done. I mean, that's why God made America. To keep the bible beaters as far away from the majority of humanity living on other continents.

Hah! Well, it is where most of Europe's fundies went... ;)

Q: Do you think christianity has risks?

The risk of hiding behind christianity is clear. It is the invitation to believe that there is a "god," a kind of "ally" to resolve the problems of everyday life -- a life that, in the case of many young people, is dominated by loneliness, the absence of conversation in the family, difficulties with studies and with the first steps in the working world.

When one is alone it is easier to be a victim superstition. One latches on to everything, including an cross. From my point of view, christianity finds fertile ground in the life of many young people who are often faced with difficult family situations, lack of communication, silence, disappointments and uncertainty about the future.

Not to mention that these christian rituals are like an invitation to the devil. While christians may claim to have no connection to the devil, their idol worship pleases Satan.

Do you see what we mean now Commando3?

I'm sorry, i don't get offended easily but ignorant people who abuse my religion really bother me.
Wicca isn't evil, and has nothing to do with Satanism.
It's basic tenant is 'do as you will an it harm none' - we don't belive in spells to hurt people or make them fall in love as this denying their free will is hurting them.
I chose to worship how i want and Christian are welcome to do the same. Religion gives hope to millions of people and prayer (with rosary beads) or meditation (with candles and chanting) are really good ways of focusing the mind.
But PLEASE stop discriminating against me and how i live my life. Respect me and my religion, stop trying to convert me to something i'll never believe in.

Commando3']Q: What is Wicca?

It is a neo-pagan cult that originated in the Anglo-Saxon world and appears as a sort of "good witchcraft" (no such thing though). It is neither a sect nor an organization with specific leaders and structures. It is simply a current of esoteric thought that any person can follow without any particular commitment.

Q: What does this current of thought suggest?

It is a mixture of paganism, magic, superstition, and dangerous witchcraft. In addition, it gives exaggerated veneration to nature, to the point of divinizing and adoring it. Wicca followers believe in reincarnation, which they regard as an "evolution of the soul." They practice a series of magic rites: from enchantments of love to ceremonies to become rich or "attract money."

At times they turn to spirits, non-physical entities or pagan false-gods, such as praying to the "horned god."

Q: Why does Wicca appear as "good witchcraft"?

Because Wicca followers say that they don't want to harm anyone and that they reject Satanism (yet they accept witchcraft, a favorite of the devil). However, from my point of view, Wicca cannot be regarded as a positive cult.

However, it suggests rituals that seek to exercise power over people. However, human beings are not puppets who can be controlled as one wishes.

Another negative aspect is that of superstition. Wicca followers are convinced that stones, herbs and the wind contain particular energies capable of producing effects on daily life. Thus they end up by becoming slaves to objects, idols, amulets and talismans. Not to mention quite simply it is occultism, enough said.

Q: Is it true that Wicca is popular among young people?

Unfortunately, yes. Some movies and telefilms have made Wicca popular. Some magazines for adolescents also speak of it frequently, proposing it as a kind of "alternative religion."

Girls in particular are fascinated by the idea of being "good witches," and they use Wicca rituals to solve problems of daily life. They shut themselves in their room and prepare real ceremonies with candles, idols, incense and little altars dedicated to some strange pagan divinity or evil demon.

Q: Do you think this has risks?

The risk of hiding behind Wicca is clear. It is the invitation to believe that there is a "good magic," a kind of "ally" to resolve the problems of everyday life -- a life that, in the case of many young people, is dominated by loneliness, the absence of conversation in the family, difficulties with studies and with the first steps in the working world.

When one is alone it is easier to be a victim of magic and superstition. One latches on to everything, including an amulet. From my point of view, Wicca finds fertile ground in the life of many young people who are often faced with difficult family situations, lack of communication, silence, disappointments and uncertainty about the future.

Not to mention that these pagan rituals are like an invitation to the devil. While Wiccans may claim to have no connection to the devil, thier idol worship and veneration of pagan false-gods pleases Satan.

Q: What effect can Wicca have on young people's behavior?

In the long term, there is the risk of spreading lack of commitment among young people. They trust something that is outside their own life to resolve a problem. Young people refuse to be committed to achieve an objective, leaving everything in the hands of the so-called energies of some ritual or amulet.

It is the law of "I want everything now." Do I like a girl? Instead of winning her over by being pleasant and tender, the Wicca follower will turn to a magic rite. Do I have doubts about the future? Instead of using his head to find an intelligent solution to the problem, he entrusts himself to Wicca. The same thing happens with school and university examinations.

Also, Wicca can be seen as a gateway to even worse occultism. One day one could be a Wicca, the next the could be a Satanist or Luciferian.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! wow, you don't know anything! wicca and satanism are nature religions, much better ones then christianity. neo-wicca and neo-satanism aren't really religions at all, but are what most people think that regular wicca and satanism are. the neo ones are ussually just a bunch of teenagers trying to rebel and pretend to worship the christian devil and such. the luciferianism and christianity are also disrespectable religions(i'm not shure that i'd even call them religions. real religions have no god(s)) the real wicca and satanism religions are actually very respectable. occultism is quite respectable too. i don't know much about it, but they claim to study the basic principles of the universe, and believe in no diety. so, the real problem here is the dangers of christianity.

We condemn others for their beliefs and consider them dangerous. Why? Because we don't understand or agree?

I think it is more an issue of a lack of faith. Those who truly have faith can disagree with other faiths without condemning them. Those who are more unsure, however, need some sort of backup for their beliefs. They need more proof that God is on their side.

Do I really need a more clear reason why people need to own firearms? :rolleyes:

Let me know when you plan on re-starting the Burnings so I can be there to snipe the torch & pitchfork bearers. :sniper:

I don't believe wicca does any harm. Sure as a christian I believe they're misguided, but what do I care if they decide to go pray to a rock?

I'm not catholic either, but I know alot about it having gone to a catholic school off and on several times. The rosary isn't an "idol" it is actually more of a primitive abacus. It is used to keep count of the amount of prayers said during the prayer of the rosary. Ten beads for ten hail marys, and a large bead in between for an Our Father. I don't know about Catholics, some of them take it a little too far, but the statuets are not supposed to be idols. They are more of a symbolic homage to the great people of the church. (It is useful to note that at one time all pictures, statues, and crosses were burned as a result of a meeting saying that these things were idolatrous. This led to the Great Schism between the Greek Orthodox and the Roman Catholic church.)

BTW, the christians of medieval Europe were a very special kind of people. Most people that claimed they were "christian" were coerced by power hungry priests into believing the wrong thing. At that time, bibles were only written in latin, which was only understood by the clergy and some of the upper class. Everyone else had to rely on a priest to tell them what was what, so as a result some corrupt priests, bishops, and even popes took advantage of people and got them to do some pretty horrendous things. Of course, alot of the rampant corruption and war-mongering was caused by people buying their way into positions of power within the church with no intention of actually obeying its tenets. This was slowly corrected after Martin Luther unintentionally started a rather large revolution against the church.

Harry Potter is Wiccan.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Wicca an Atheistic Religion? Do wiccans believe in a god (or more than one) or only in spirits?

I don't believe wicca does any harm. Sure as a christian I believe they're misguided, but what do I care if they decide to go pray to a rock?

I'm not catholic either, but I know alot about it having gone to a catholic school off and on several times. The rosary isn't an "idol" it is actually more of a primitive abacus. It is used to keep count of the amount of prayers said during the prayer of the rosary. Ten beads for ten hail marys, and a large bead in between for an Our Father. I don't know about Catholics, some of them take it a little too far, but the statuets are not supposed to be idols. They are more of a symbolic homage to the great people of the church. (It is useful to note that at one time all pictures, statues, and crosses were burned as a result of a meeting saying that these things were idolatrous. This led to the Great Schism between the Greek Orthodox and the Roman Catholic church.)

BTW, the christians of medieval Europe were a very special kind of people. Most people that claimed they were "christian" were coerced by power hungry priests into believing the wrong thing. At that time, bibles were only written in latin, which was only understood by the clergy and some of the upper class. Everyone else had to rely on a priest to tell them what was what, so as a result some corrupt priests, bishops, and even popes took advantage of people and got them to do some pretty horrendous things. Of course, alot of the rampant corruption and war-mongering was caused by people buying their way into positions of power within the church with no intention of actually obeying its tenets. This was slowly corrected after Martin Luther unintentionally started a rather large revolution against the church.


As a Catholic, I can honestly say that, NO, the statues are not idols, they're representation and reminders of the people we worship as devine beings. When you get to statues such as the weeping Madonna and stuff, yes, I agree that THAT is taking it too far. For as long as I can remember, statues were elaborately decorated with gold paint and the older ones with gold leaf, and used to decorate an already elaborately decorated church. Another thing that non-Catholics will notice when visiting Catholic churches, there is a huge amount of gold and artwork, some of that stuff is priceless. Our churches are very ornate, and, in my opinion, I think the money could have gone to better causes....

Harry Potter is Wiccan.

Lol, that is true. Which is also the reason those books are banned from alot of catholic schools. :rolleyes:

Commando3']
Also, Wicca can be seen as a gateway to even worse occultism. One day one could be a Wicca, the next the could be a Satanist or Luciferian.

Hmm... That's odd, pushing aside the God and Devil part, I found the religion that made most sense was Satanism, I personally am an atheist, but I found the Satanic bible (LaVey) a very good read. It seems to me, sir, that you are trying to encourage people to suppress other people's rights to free choice. I don't mean to be rude, but I have no tact, so I say this: Who made you in charge of what others had the right to believe in and not believe in?

BTW, one of the great satanist sins is Stupidity.

Harry Potter is Wiccan.
Actually, no he isn't. Wicca is a religion, Harry Potter magic is a school subject.

And since people have spent more time on this than I, here is more proof from http://tearain.tripod.com/hp/magic.html

1. Wiccans believe that magic is simply channeling the natural energy of the earth and living things to make things happen in a certain way. There is no mention of anything like this in Harry Potter, it seems to me that magic comes from inside the people, or from the wands, or . . . somewhere else. Who knows?

2. Supposedly, everyone has the potential to be a witch (male or female, they're both called witches) in Wicca. Some people are stronger than others, but no one is completely barred from ever achieving anything. In Harry Potter, there are magical people and Muggles. Muggles cannot do magic no matter how hard they try. It's like a genetic thing. People who have terrible singing voices can't sound like Julie Andrews no matter how hard they try.

3. Wicca is not a religion based on magic. It is an earth-based religion, in which the practitioners worship a male and female deity, and the elements (earth, water, air, fire, and spirit) are sacred, as is all nature. The magic merely stems from this belief, the belief does not stem from the magic. In Harry Potter, there is ONLY the magic. No gods and goddesses, no pentagrams, no element control practicing. Just magic.

4. Harry Potter has all the stereotypes of magic. Potions, spells, crystal gazing, robes and pointy hats, wands, tea leaves, transfiguration, vampires, flying broomsticks, werewolves, unicorns, centaurs, and all those other beings of superstition. Wicca is basically trying to counteract all the stereotypes. They don't wear the stereotypical pointy witch hats and robes with moons and stars on them, as far as I know they are incapable of anything approaching transfiguration, they definitely do not ride broomsticks, and dismiss mythological beings just like everyone else. Wiccan potions are used to – as they put it – cast spells, and often the maker takes the potion themselves to enter a different state of consciousness. Their potions are not used to give people warts, make things shrink, regrow bones, or anything that Harry Potter potions are used for.

Commando3']It is the law of "I want everything now." Do I like a girl? Instead of winning her over by being pleasant and tender, the Wicca follower will turn to a magic rite. Do I have doubts about the future? Instead of using his head to find an intelligent solution to the problem, he entrusts himself to Wicca. The same thing happens with school and university examinations.

That doesn't sound too different to christianity, actually.

"Oh no, Grandad is sick. Instead of working on a cure, lets all get hysterical and pray to Jebus."

real religions have no god(s)
hmm i'm not religious, but could you substantiate that please? :confused:

and lets not forget, this is all in your opinion

That doesn't sound too different to christianity, actually.

"Oh no, Grandad is sick. Instead of working on a cure, lets all get hysterical and pray to Jebus."

But in the same sense, all religions have their own bits of nonsense to people outside of the religion. Let me set up an example that sounds more logical.

You believe 2+2=4 is the answer to everything.

Your grandfather is dying, but you believe that so long as you believe in 2+2=4, someone will be listening, and help you through this tough time. He may die, but so long as you believe in 2+2=4, you believe you did your best.

Now replace 2+2=4 with god.

Actually, no he isn't. Wicca is a religion, Harry Potter magic is a school subject.

And since people have spent more time on this than I, here is more proof from http://tearain.tripod.com/hp/magic.html

1. Wiccans believe that magic is simply channeling the natural energy of the earth and living things to make things happen in a certain way. There is no mention of anything like this in Harry Potter, it seems to me that magic comes from inside the people, or from the wands, or . . . somewhere else. Who knows?

2. Supposedly, everyone has the potential to be a witch (male or female, they're both called witches) in Wicca. Some people are stronger than others, but no one is completely barred from ever achieving anything. In Harry Potter, there are magical people and Muggles. Muggles cannot do magic no matter how hard they try. It's like a genetic thing. People who have terrible singing voices can't sound like Julie Andrews no matter how hard they try.

3. Wicca is not a religion based on magic. It is an earth-based religion, in which the practitioners worship a male and female deity, and the elements (earth, water, air, fire, and spirit) are sacred, as is all nature. The magic merely stems from this belief, the belief does not stem from the magic. In Harry Potter, there is ONLY the magic. No gods and goddesses, no pentagrams, no element control practicing. Just magic.

4. Harry Potter has all the stereotypes of magic. Potions, spells, crystal gazing, robes and pointy hats, wands, tea leaves, transfiguration, vampires, flying broomsticks, werewolves, unicorns, centaurs, and all those other beings of superstition. Wicca is basically trying to counteract all the stereotypes. They don't wear the stereotypical pointy witch hats and robes with moons and stars on them, as far as I know they are incapable of anything approaching transfiguration, they definitely do not ride broomsticks, and dismiss mythological beings just like everyone else. Wiccan potions are used to – as they put it – cast spells, and often the maker takes the potion themselves to enter a different state of consciousness. Their potions are not used to give people warts, make things shrink, regrow bones, or anything that Harry Potter potions are used for.

Way to not take a joke.

Actually, no he isn't. Wicca is a religion, Harry Potter magic is a school subject.

And since people have spent more time on this than I, here is more proof from http://tearain.tripod.com/hp/magic.html

1. Wiccans believe that magic is simply channeling the natural energy of the earth and living things to make things happen in a certain way. There is no mention of anything like this in Harry Potter, it seems to me that magic comes from inside the people, or from the wands, or . . . somewhere else. Who knows?

2. Supposedly, everyone has the potential to be a witch (male or female, they're both called witches) in Wicca. Some people are stronger than others, but no one is completely barred from ever achieving anything. In Harry Potter, there are magical people and Muggles. Muggles cannot do magic no matter how hard they try. It's like a genetic thing. People who have terrible singing voices can't sound like Julie Andrews no matter how hard they try.

3. Wicca is not a religion based on magic. It is an earth-based religion, in which the practitioners worship a male and female deity, and the elements (earth, water, air, fire, and spirit) are sacred, as is all nature. The magic merely stems from this belief, the belief does not stem from the magic. In Harry Potter, there is ONLY the magic. No gods and goddesses, no pentagrams, no element control practicing. Just magic.

4. Harry Potter has all the stereotypes of magic. Potions, spells, crystal gazing, robes and pointy hats, wands, tea leaves, transfiguration, vampires, flying broomsticks, werewolves, unicorns, centaurs, and all those other beings of superstition. Wicca is basically trying to counteract all the stereotypes. They don't wear the stereotypical pointy witch hats and robes with moons and stars on them, as far as I know they are incapable of anything approaching transfiguration, they definitely do not ride broomsticks, and dismiss mythological beings just like everyone else. Wiccan potions are used to – as they put it – cast spells, and often the maker takes the potion themselves to enter a different state of consciousness. Their potions are not used to give people warts, make things shrink, regrow bones, or anything that Harry Potter potions are used for.


Agreed. Don't know too much, just bits and pieces. I do remember a spell to make someone fall in love with you though. You take soil from your intended one's footprint in clay from his garden and plant a flower in the pot and as the flower grows and blooms, so will his love for you. If it dies, then you have no hope with him.

Of course, if he catches you snooping around in his back yard, you don't have much hope either...

hmm i'm not religious, but could you substantiate that please? :confused:

and lets not forget, this is all in your opinion

well, it's not really substanciated by proof or anything since after all all religions were made by man and aren't something that must exist or anything and even exist at all, but religion originally was the code by which people lived their lives, eventually it turned into worshipping gods and such.

Dangers of Wicca

God Bless you, Sweet Commando, for bringing this danger to everyone's attention.

Has anyone else noticed that it is the Wiccans of this board who invade all religious threads, wildly attempting to disprove the Monotheism of God and attempting to inflame believers with posts peppered with words like Oak tree, Holly leaf, and Stonehenge. Yet, they complain about a mythical situation where it is the christians who want to "shove religion down people's throats"?

Please also explain to me:

How can Wiccans can be Anti-war, but Pro-Human Sacrifice?

How Wiccans are suppose to help the little guy: Yet every chance they get, they levy taxes of livestock just so they can "burn" them on the altar? Sounds like a racket to just get free barbecue.

We all have to be very afraid of Wiccans. They come off as all hippy-like... They offer you a doobie, maybe some wine. They chat you up and invite you back to their place to watch videos... Next thing you know, you wake up in a wicker basket, high on mistletoe and your pants are missing.

Just remember this warning when that day comes you wake up totally naked, with your crotch covered in holly-sap, and surrounded by wacked out Wiccans painted blue and carrying scimitars.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Wicca an Atheistic Religion? Do wiccans believe in a god (or more than one) or only in spirits?

Most of the Wiccans I have talked to believe there is a divine force (if you will) running through all of nature. Some choose a specific god and goddess, but these are generally aspects of the whole force.

A real Wiccan can correct me if I am wrong, but I think a lot of the theistic parts of it are left up to the individual believer.

God Bless you, Sweet Commando, for bringing this danger to everyone's attention.

Has anyone else noticed that it is the Wiccans of this board who invade all religious threads, wildly attempting to disprove the Monotheism of God and attempting to inflame believers with posts peppered with words like Oak tree, Holly leaf, and Stonehenge. Yet, they complain about a mythical situation where it is the christians who want to "shove religion down people's throats"?

Please also explain to me:

How can Wiccans can be Anti-war, but Pro-Human Sacrifice?

How Wiccans are suppose to help the little guy: Yet every chance they get, they levy taxes of livestock just so they can "burn" them on the altar? Sounds like a racket to just get free barbecue.

We all have to be very afraid of Wiccans. They come off as all hippy-like... They offer you a doobie, maybe some wine. They chat you up and invite you back to their place to watch videos... Next thing you know, you wake up in a wicker basket, high on mistletoe and your pants are missing.

Just remember this warning when that day comes you wake up totally naked, with your crotch covered in holly-sap, and surrounded by wacked out Wiccans painted blue and carrying scimitars.

And you know this from experience, eh? :rolleyes:

Commando3']I am a Christian (Catholic) and I pray to God all the time. However running around a rock or a talisman chanitng is going to do absolutely nothing.
Praying does absolutely nothign.

How can Wiccans can be Anti-war, but Pro-Human Sacrifice?


Because we are not Pro-Human Sacrifice. Wiccans do not sacrifice humans--remember 'Harm None?'. Yes, some ancient religions on which Wicca is based did, but modern Wicca does not.


How Wiccans are suppose to help the little guy: Yet every chance they get, they levy taxes of livestock just so they can "burn" them on the altar? Sounds like a racket to just get free barbecue.


Never heard of that, either. 'Harm none' also applies to animals, you see. Wiccans do leave offerings to the gods, yes--but in the form of bread, incense, herbs, maybe a little wine...


We all have to be very afraid of Wiccans. They come off as all hippy-like... They offer you a doobie, maybe some wine. They chat you up and invite you back to their place to watch videos... Next thing you know, you wake up in a wicker basket, high on mistletoe and your pants are missing.

Just remember this warning when that day comes you wake up totally naked, with your crotch covered in holly-sap, and surrounded by wacked out Wiccans painted blue and carrying scimitars.

All propaganda. The lot of it.
Wicca is a very diverse religion. It is hard to make generalizations like saying what Wiccans do or do not do, but I can say with certainty that Wiccans do NOT sacrifice people or animals, we do NOT worship Satan, and we do NOT 'seduce' others into joining our religion. We DO believe in the Wiccan Rede-- 'If it harm none, do what you will', and in the Threefold Law--'Ever mind the rule of three, what you put out comes back to thee.'

That Threefold Law is one you would do well to remember, as well.

~Oddardynia

How Wiccans are suppose to help the little guy: Yet every chance they get, they levy taxes of livestock just so they can "burn" them on the altar? Sounds like a racket to just get free barbecue.

We all have to be very afraid of Wiccans. They come off as all hippy-like... They offer you a doobie, maybe some wine. They chat you up and invite you back to their place to watch videos... Next thing you know, you wake up in a wicker basket, high on mistletoe and your pants are missing.

Just remember this warning when that day comes you wake up totally naked, with your crotch covered in holly-sap, and surrounded by wacked out Wiccans painted blue and carrying scimitars.

*blinks slowly* Whaaaaaat?

Ya know, I'd really hope that this is a joke. I can't believe that someone would be so stupid. But then, I'm losing my faith in humanity as we speak.

PEOPLE! Times change! It's time to get with the program and not play My God Is Better Than Your God! Or like that ever popular bumper sticker My Goddess Gave Birth To Your God!

If you want to argue this, get degrees in theology first. You can't argue properly if you don't know all the facts.

Like this one: Wicca is not a cult. But it's also not a very old religion being just over 50 years old.

Fact 2: Before the bible was even written there existed the 'cavemen' and later the Summerians who were both pagan in belief. The basis of the mother Goddess comes from the cavemen, not the Druids or whatever.

Fact 3 (And partially with my own thoughts): These people are so ancient and forever gone, unable to speak, how do we know they didn't know something we didn't? They could have but we'll never, ever know.

Fact 4: Some things in the bible don't make sense. Some versions of it have the exact measurements of Noah's ark, but how could some of the insects survive when they can only live for one or two days? How could they fit one of every single animal, including penguins on the stupid boat? How would certain fish survive the mixture of fresh water and salt water? They'd DIE!

Okay, I'm done for now.

modern Wicca

I thought even the Wiccan Pro's said Wicca was only about 50 years old?

Was pretty agreed on the rest of the post though :)

I used the phrase 'modern Wicca' to differenciate between Wicca and the ancient religions of several thousand years ago, which, as I said, Wicca was in part based on. Wicca is about 50 years old, yes. It was created in the '50s by Gerald Gardner, who synthesized it from the religions of ancient cultures like the Celts and the Egyptians, and from various occult practices.
~Oddardynia

Way to not take a joke.
Oh, that was a joke? Sorry, I'm just way to used to seeing "Harry Potter=Wicca=Satan" (http://www.harrypottermagic.org/big_deal_hp_2.htm) stuff to fully appreciate the hilarity.

I used the phrase 'modern Wicca' to differenciate between Wicca and the ancient religions of several thousand years ago, which, as I said, Wicca was in part based on. Wicca is about 50 years old, yes. It was created in the '50s by Gerald Gardner, who synthesized it from the religions of ancient cultures like the Celts and the Egyptians, and from various occult practices.
~Oddardynia

*hugs* A seemingly intelligent human being. Partial faith in humanity has been restored.

It never ceases to amaze me just how many Christians are afraid of their own shadow, yet claim to be of the "superior" faith.

It's really sad.

I used the phrase 'modern Wicca' to differenciate between Wicca and the ancient religions of several thousand years ago, which, as I said, Wicca was in part based on. Wicca is about 50 years old, yes. It was created in the '50s by Gerald Gardner, who synthesized it from the religions of ancient cultures like the Celts and the Egyptians, and from various occult practices.
~Oddardynia

Thanks for clarifying for me, I understand now, and agree. I just for for a horrible minute you thought wicca was ancient. :)

Harry Potter is Wiccan.

Prove it.

God Bless you, Sweet Commando, for bringing this danger to everyone's attention.

Has anyone else noticed that it is the Wiccans of this board who invade all religious threads, wildly attempting to disprove the Monotheism of God and attempting to inflame believers with posts peppered with words like Oak tree, Holly leaf, and Stonehenge. Yet, they complain about a mythical situation where it is the christians who want to "shove religion down people's throats"?

Please also explain to me:

How can Wiccans can be Anti-war, but Pro-Human Sacrifice?

How Wiccans are suppose to help the little guy: Yet every chance they get, they levy taxes of livestock just so they can "burn" them on the altar? Sounds like a racket to just get free barbecue.

We all have to be very afraid of Wiccans. They come off as all hippy-like... They offer you a doobie, maybe some wine. They chat you up and invite you back to their place to watch videos... Next thing you know, you wake up in a wicker basket, high on mistletoe and your pants are missing.

Just remember this warning when that day comes you wake up totally naked, with your crotch covered in holly-sap, and surrounded by wacked out Wiccans painted blue and carrying scimitars.

...your stupid...wicca is a modern incarnation of the old belefs wicca does not have humen sacrifies...and if you look at things that way than how all loveing god damn people to an eternal torment of hell...

ALSO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT...the old norse had a beleif in a place called hel (one L) and it was ruled by the dauter of a shape shifter...and she was given her form by he greed ( she took the form of half a liveing women and half a dead one) and this was the place that one would go if you died without honor or of sickness and things of that type...( in other words if you did not go to the great halls of the gods in wait for the final day of ragnarok so that you could fight for the forces of good against evil. even though they thought that at this battle all things would die exept 4 gods the youngest...and they would thus make a world free of evil a curruption...but after time the battle would happen agian with the new gods and beings thus desytroying that evil and curuption. They thought all things had a cycle..) NOW WHEN THE CHRISTIANS speed into scandinavia they veiwed this place "hel" as evil and after time adopted the idea of a place for those who were "BAD"...and thats where we get hell and the idea of a fallen angel.

ANOTHER THING why must you run your mouth useing steriotypes... ...and need i remind those who veiw the religion of christianity as "the best and the right one" the fact that it did not always exist and...have we all forgot the great massicers/wars, wars, and more wars that have taken palce in the name of god...

THE FACT THAT PEOPLE dont take the time to understand things and question there own beleifs thus thinking all others are wrong, is one of the major problems with alot of this world...but thats just my opinion...
Now im not saying that any one religion is right or wrong im saying that its people that say things like that, are well stupid...

Many of my friends are Wiccans, and they don't all dance around idols naked.


Well then I'm thinkin' you're hangin' out with the wrong Wiccans! ;)

And you know this from experience, eh? :rolleyes:

Damn right, and I have the mistletoe scars on my whatsit to prove it!


Because we are not Pro-Human Sacrifice. Wiccans do not sacrifice humans--remember 'Harm None?'. Yes, some ancient religions on which Wicca is based did, but modern Wicca does not.
~Oddardynia

Yeah, well that's your "official" line isn't it? I think we all know better than that!


I can't believe that someone would be so stupid.

Don't for one minute under-estimate my stupidity, buster! All things are possible through the power of Christ!

I have come to see the moderators grasping hand in many things of late, using their power to manipulate threads towards their Wiccan, new-agey, mother-earthy, morally relativisticky agenda. Frankly, it sickens me.

HEH. If you think Wiccans are goofy... (or if you don't, this link is too much fun...)

LINKY (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-050419virgin-photogallery.photogallery)

Hail Mary of the Underpass! :rolleyes: :D

Don't for one minute under-estimate my stupidity, buster! All things are possible through the power of Christ!


Now *that* is comedy gold! :D

you're silly *poke*

The dangers of walking
why is it dangerous

you could possibly fall down and possibly hurt yourself

effects
walking is the marijuana of movment *nods* it might lead to more dangerous and hardocre movement modes like running oh my!

...err enough sarcasm

btw im buddhist

HEH. If you think Wiccans are goofy... (or if you don't, this link is too much fun...)

LINKY (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-050419virgin-photogallery.photogallery)

Hail Mary of the Underpass! :rolleyes: :D


Frankly, I don't see the resembalence. XD But color me skeptic.

Oy, and do we really need to bash the Christians just because someone makes a post against Wicca? Remember there are lots of us who are perfectly happy accepting the differences between the faiths....

Damn right, and I have the mistletoe scars on my whatsit to prove it!

Right, now I seriously hope you're being sarcastic, otherwise that entire post was bullsh*t, or an encite to more flaming.

Don't for one minute under-estimate my stupidity, buster! All things are possible through the power of Christ!

*bottom lip trembles* Buster? That's... that's a nickname for icky stinky guys right? Omigawsh! COOTIES BY NICKNAME! *runs away screaming*

I've only seen Wiccans in action once. Honestly I thought they were playing Live Action D and D.

Frankly, I don't see the resembalence. XD But color me skeptic.

Did you look at all 13 images? No, not the ones of the rust&salt stain, but the ones of the glassy-eyed "believers" praying to/at a STAIN (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-050419virgin-photogallery,1,3694582.photogallery?index=10) on an underpass?! LOL

HEH. If you think Wiccans are goofy... (or if you don't, this link is too much fun...)

LINKY (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-050419virgin-photogallery.photogallery)

Hail Mary of the Underpass! :rolleyes: :D

Amen! Teehee. Yeah, those people were freaks.

Its oronic that the ones who think Wicca is dangerous are Christians. They beleive the religion is dangerous because it leads people to Satan and Satan leads to evil deeds, death, suffering, mass murder in the name of their corrupt religion, unfair taxing of people, buildings of huge temples, persecution of other religions, crusades, lack of codoms because its contradictory to what god says, corruption, worshipping false idols..... oops, I meant to describe Satanism but I described Christianity. dang it.

Any members of a religious sect that practice love, peace and the general betterment of mankind is just fine. Wicca has nothing to do with Satan and their rituals, traditions, methods and religious icons are their ways of expressing afformentioned good qualities.

(just summing up good stuff other people said conciecly)

You believe 2+2=4 is the answer to everything.
Silly human! 2+2=5!

I'm a Christian, and I feel rather INSULTED by how all you Christian folks go rampaging how Wicca is evil, and adoring nature is evil and things. Then you point and openly LAUGH at their beliefs. Excuse me, but where has the law "Don't do anything to others, which you don't want to be done to yourself." been lost?

I'm also pretty sure "Don't believe in other gods, god is your only god." doesn't include openly attacking everyone who just doesn't happen to feel the same way as you do about things. It's certainly isn't ANY kind of excuse to attack anyone, and claim they are 'evil'. In fact, you're evil, I am evil and we are all evil, as Bible states. Hence the Salvation part.

Seriously, you don't even have your facts right here. I applaud the person who managed to pull "Just remember this warning when that day comes you wake up totally naked, with your crotch covered in holly-sap, and surrounded by wacked out Wiccans painted blue and carrying scimitars." from out of the blue. I know a Wiccan, and she hasn't tried to burn my crotch with honey or anything silly like that yet.

And besides, it seems that you're idolizing Bible here, not God and his message. Isn't that sin too? Look at yourselves, look at what you're doing. You're just spreading unneeded hate around, against our God's wishes.

I mean, everything that promotes peace these days is in my books good, and certainly not evil. We Christians have a lot to learn in that degree, promoting peace and love seems to get shadowed by promoting our religion...

I'm disappointed with you all, I really am. Do you REALLY want this? Spread this hate, instead of peace?

Silly human! 2+2=5!

closer, but still wronge! mwuhuhahahahahaha! two+two=6, because two has three letters in it!

Silly human! 2+2=5!

Well then replace 4 with 5 and read it like that. Like I said, it's for the person who believes in it, not for those who mock them.

Question: why do all the major religions - Christianity (Puritans, Protestants, Catholics, Born-Agains), Muslims (Suni and Shite - sorry for the spelling), and so on have the worst histories of violence? I mean for God's sake, I thought religion was originally created to give people solace in the unexplained. Why do we have to force our own beliefs onto other people?

Hehe... it's great to be Jewish. Thinking about, I can't point out one war that was fought in the name of religion (the fighting now is recent and over territory issues between two countries. Until 60 years ago, Jews and Muslims never really fought). Only problem is we were usually the victims in these wars (inquisitions, crusades, European banishments, Holocaust, Anti-Semitism throughout history). This Wicca vs. Christianity conflict is pretty new...

closer, but still wronge! mwuhuhahahahahaha! two+two=6, because two has three letters in it!

Maybe 2+2=tutu

I say we let the Wiccans and Church of the Stain folks fight for supremacy in not the woods, not the city, the Suburbs. Druids versus Clerics.

...Seriously, you don't even have your facts right here. I applaud the person who managed to pull "Just remember this warning when that day comes you wake up totally naked, with your crotch covered in holly-sap, and surrounded by wacked out Wiccans painted blue and carrying scimitars." from out of the blue. I know a Wiccan, and she hasn't tried to burn my crotch with honey or anything silly like that yet...

Just give it time.... She's weaving a wicker basket with your name on it. She's collecting the Holly-sap. She's sharpening her scimitar. You are in great danger!

Just give it time.... She's weaving a wicker basket with your name on it. She's collecting the Holly-sap. She's sharpening her scimitar. You are in great danger!

I'm now going to mark that as sarcasm. Really, my mind can't comprehend that in any other way.

Did you look at all 13 images? No, not the ones of the rust&salt stain, but the ones of the glassy-eyed "believers" praying to/at a STAIN (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-050419virgin-photogallery,1,3694582.photogallery?index=10) on an underpass?! LOL

Actually I did... All I saw was a water stain in the shape of a lump.

Hehe... it's great to be Jewish. Thinking about, I can't point out one war that was fought in the name of religion (the fighting now is recent and over territory issues between two countries. Until 60 years ago, Jews and Muslims never really fought). Only problem is we were usually the victims in these wars (inquisitions, crusades, European banishments, Holocaust, Anti-Semitism throughout history). This Wicca vs. Christianity conflict is pretty new...

The holocaust was about 50% Jewish, 50% Christianity.

Adolf really didn't like religion did he?

Among the killed were Jews (Anyone with at least 1 jewish grandparent), Romaninas (Yes I spell it with an o instead of a u), Russians (I think they are the majority), gypsies and others.

I really don't like wiccans and they never liked me, although we barely know eachother's side.

And as the last note, Jews had many wars, some they started, I believe they are mentioned in the Bible/Torah or other books.

I'm now going to mark that as sarcasm. Really, my mind can't comprehend that in any other way.

Mark it however you like, if that's the only way you can sleep at night. Just remember that I warned you. When the wicker binds and the warm sap is running, remember that I warned you.

And don't bother begging G-d for deliverance when the ordeal starts. After the drugs kick-in and the Wiccan hippies start pulling out their Oaken sex-toys, the only shouts of "Oh G-d" will be from your wicked pleasure, not as a plea for salvation.

And in the morning, if you're lucky to survive, you'll be left alone in a used heap. No breakfast. No note. No phone-number. Where is your merciful G-d, then?

a wikker basket? human sacrafice? those were in the old days of the celts before the romans invaded. it was a way of getting ride of your prisioners of war. (would you want to stay imprisioned for years or be a tribute to your god?) and the celts at war painted themselves blue with woad. none of this is used anywere in the wiccan religion. Wicca is based on the old gods and alot of other stuff, but ive never seen on the news 'New-agers practise human sarcrifice'.

Actually I did... All I saw was a water stain in the shape of a lump.
You mean, you didn't fall prey to mass-hysteria disguised as Piety?

For shame.

I worship the gay god.

I worship the gay god.

Kneel before thy master! :p

Mark it however you like, if that's the only way you can sleep at night. Just remember that I warned you. When the wicker binds and the warm sap is running, remember that I warned you.

And don't bother begging G-d for deliverance when the ordeal starts. After the drugs kick-in and the Wiccan hippies start pulling out their Oaken sex-toys, the only shouts of "Oh G-d" will be from your wicked pleasure, not as a plea for salvation.

And in the morning, if you're lucky to survive, you'll be left alone in a used heap. No breakfast. No note. No phone-number. Where is your merciful G-d, then?

...

Dude, this sounds so awesome in so many levels. *phones his Wiccan friend*

I worship the gay god.
Your sig kicks much ass.

I´m really liking this thread.. been lauhing my ass of every time the christians get mad when something bad is said about them, then they flame other religions.. what´s with that??
and about those pictures of Mary??? I cannot believe people believe these things, other then ppl with half a brain. which makes me wonder, are there ppl who go around the world hunting for these places which seem to be popping up all over the world?

...

Dude, this sounds so awesome in so many levels. *phones his Wiccan friend*

rofl

...Dude, this sounds so awesome in so many levels...



Oh... Then... well.. never mind. Uh... you wanna drop by and watch some videos?

[NS]Commando3, who made you the be all and end all source on Wicca? Where do you get your information? Most likely from a source as biased as your initial post.

Greetings All!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I used the phrase 'modern Wicca' to differenciate between Wicca and the ancient religions of several thousand years ago, which, as I said, Wicca was in part based on. Wicca is about 50 years old, yes. It was created in the '50s by Gerald Gardner, who synthesized it from the religions of ancient cultures like the Celts and the Egyptians, and from various occult practices.
~Oddardynia

Not exactly Oddardynia. Brother Gerald was actually an initiate of the O.T.O. and good friends with Aleister Crowley. Gardner actually took much of modern Wicca from Thelema. It's easy to prove, look at the initiation rituals and look at the Book of the Law (written in 1904) and Liber XV "The Gnostic Mass" (written in 1913. And more importantly the Wiccan Rede and the Law of Thelema (Which are my beginning and ending phrases.)

Just wanted to clarify that.

And to the guy that started this thread, if you don't like wiccans, then you definetly will hate Thelemites.

Just too funny.

Love is the law, love under will.

Greetings All!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I used the phrase 'modern Wicca' to differenciate between Wicca and the ancient religions of several thousand years ago, which, as I said, Wicca was in part based on. Wicca is about 50 years old, yes. It was created in the '50s by Gerald Gardner, who synthesized it from the religions of ancient cultures like the Celts and the Egyptians, and from various occult practices.
~Oddardynia

Not exactly Oddardynia. Brother Gerald was actually an initiate of the O.T.O. and good friends with Aleister Crowley. Gardner actually took much of modern Wicca from Thelema. It's easy to prove, look at the initiation rituals and look at the Book of the Law (written in 1904) and Liber XV "The Gnostic Mass" (written in 1913. And more importantly the Wiccan Rede and the Law of Thelema (Which are my beginning and ending phrases.)

Just wanted to clarify that.

And to the guy that started this thread, if you don't like wiccans, then you definetly will hate Thelemites.

Just too funny.

Love is the law, love under will.

Oh... Then... well.. never mind. Uh... you wanna drop by and watch some videos?

Sorry! Too busy buys hey beatiful aaaaregh gotta go talk to you soon later! EEP WHEE! OH G-D!

Sorry! Too busy buys hey beatiful aaaaregh gotta go talk to you soon later! EEP WHEE! OH G-D!

Helpful Hint: Club soda is useful for removing Holly-Sap stains.

[NS]Commando3, who made you the be all and end all source on Wicca? Where do you get your information? Most likely from a source as biased as your initial post.

Most of the original post was plagiarised directly from a Christian web-site. So yeah, the source is exactly as biased as his original post.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8826393&postcount=25

EDIT: Although he's credited the site now.

Silly human! 2+2=5!

We will meet again in the place where there is no darkness.

Please, friend, refrain from these types of post, except in your own personal weblog.

If you are not a Christian, people think you are, and you are giving those who are a bad name. If you ARE a Christian I strongly urge you to remember how Jesus preached the messages, and see if your ways align with him. Now, I will turn to the Bible myself so that I may not be guilty of the same problem.

I'm a Christian, and I feel rather INSULTED by how all you Christian folks go rampaging how Wicca is evil, and adoring nature is evil and things. Then you point and openly LAUGH at their beliefs. Excuse me, but where has the law "Don't do anything to others, which you don't want to be done to yourself." been lost?

I'm also pretty sure "Don't believe in other gods, god is your only god." doesn't include openly attacking everyone who just doesn't happen to feel the same way as you do about things. It's certainly isn't ANY kind of excuse to attack anyone, and claim they are 'evil'. In fact, you're evil, I am evil and we are all evil, as Bible states. Hence the Salvation part.

Seriously, you don't even have your facts right here. I applaud the person who managed to pull "Just remember this warning when that day comes you wake up totally naked, with your crotch covered in holly-sap, and surrounded by wacked out Wiccans painted blue and carrying scimitars." from out of the blue. I know a Wiccan, and she hasn't tried to burn my crotch with honey or anything silly like that yet.

And besides, it seems that you're idolizing Bible here, not God and his message. Isn't that sin too? Look at yourselves, look at what you're doing. You're just spreading unneeded hate around, against our God's wishes.

I mean, everything that promotes peace these days is in my books good, and certainly not evil. We Christians have a lot to learn in that degree, promoting peace and love seems to get shadowed by promoting our religion...

I'm disappointed with you all, I really am. Do you REALLY want this? Spread this hate, instead of peace?


Well said. Damn well said. *applause*

Oy, and do we really need to bash the Christians just because someone makes a post against Wicca? Remember there are lots of us who are perfectly happy accepting the differences between the faiths....

Ah, that's no fun! ;)

Most of us don't really need an excuse to bash Christians -- just a thread. :D

(And don't think you have us fooled. Gatref exposed the Mod's Wiccan conspiracy! :p )

Tag!

EDIT: Ye gods! I love these bible-thumping people who continualy strive to inform us all of the dangers of magic and satanism!

www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

Please check out the link above for information on how some christians apperantly view the harmless pastime of roleplaying. I think it is fairly obvious that members of a religion who take ideas like this to such extremes are in dire need of a good psyciatrist.

ok first off id like to say that i believe "magic" in and of itsself is not evil even according to christian standards. Almost every reference to the word "magic" in contrast to it being evil is a bad translation of the good old "dont do drugs" slogan(see Pharmacia im not sure of the exact spelling.also this does not include divination,satanism,or summoning and diety worship, these are clearly forbidden by the Hebrew god YHWH) and correctly translated means donot put unnatural substances into your bodies in order to induce unnatural and unhealthy effects (in much the way many pagan groups of that era used drugs like Marijuana to induce trances). In this light im not sure how you can say that all forms of magic(which is what i gather from your statements please correct me of otherwise) are ineptly a path to destruction or other forms of power. I would also like to say that PLEASE DO NOT think that i am pro Wiccan. I hold Wiccans in the highest distaste ever, my opinion is they should all be (edited out)


Thankyou and please enlighten me as to your beliefs on this subject.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! wow, you don't know anything! wicca and satanism are nature religions, much better ones then christianity. neo-wicca and neo-satanism aren't really religions at all, but are what most people think that regular wicca and satanism are. the neo ones are ussually just a bunch of teenagers trying to rebel and pretend to worship the christian devil and such. the luciferianism and christianity are also disrespectable religions(i'm not shure that i'd even call them religions. real religions have no god(s)) the real wicca and satanism religions are actually very respectable. occultism is quite respectable too. i don't know much about it, but they claim to study the basic principles of the universe, and believe in no diety. so, the real problem here is the dangers of christianity.


This has been brought up many times before, so don't shoot yet. Religion, as I understand it to be, is when a belief system is thought up in mans mind. Just thought I would add my two cents, and see if anybody can make some sense out of it. :)

Bravo NS, another masterpeice!

That doesn't sound too different to christianity, actually.

"Oh no, Grandad is sick. Instead of working on a cure, lets all get hysterical and pray to Jebus."

Not really. You get medical help and then pray.

The holocaust was about 50% Jewish, 50% Christianity.

Adolf really didn't like religion did he?

Among the killed were Jews (Anyone with at least 1 jewish grandparent), Romaninas (Yes I spell it with an o instead of a u), Russians (I think they are the majority), gypsies and others.

I really don't like wiccans and they never liked me, although we barely know eachother's side.

And as the last note, Jews had many wars, some they started, I believe they are mentioned in the Bible/Torah or other books.



12 million were killed- 6 million were Jewish. Hitler was a Christian, and his mom was very religious, and he had the support of the Church in Austria and other countries. Gypsies were not Christian. Poles, Russians, gypsies, etc are in the other 6 million. Today there are only 14 million Jews, and very few in Europe (I believe only 800 in Germany).

On your last claim, I can't think of one war fought in the name of religion. The Hanukkah war against the Greeks/Syrians was in defense, as was the Assyrian and Babylonian one. Can you think of one I am not finding?

you know maybe you should look into the new Israel. (yes they did start wars, and yes i do consider Israel jewish, and yes i am a pro-israeli jew, and yes the part of my post in parenthesis is longer than the actual post)

12 million were killed- 6 million were Jewish. Hitler was a Christian, and his mom was very religious, and he had the support of the Church in Austria and other countries. Gypsies were not Christian. Poles, Russians, gypsies, etc are in the other 6 million. Today there are only 14 million Jews, and very few in Europe (I believe only 800 in Germany).


That doesn't make him religious at all... that just means he was a christian in name, his mom was religious, and churches supported him. It doesn't make him religious, he just attracted some churches.

In the belief, the stones, herbs, winds, etc. contain divine energies just as everything in nature does. Channeling that energy (as through a spell) is no different than asking a deity (through prayer) to do something for you.
[/QUOTE]
Uhm, channeling and praying are two really different things, IMHO. Channeling is you doing it, praying is asking The Big Guy for a favor, eg, He does it.

Buy you are right, this guy is a riot.

Wicca isn't dangerous. It's just retarded. Now I must channel my energy to do something useless.

Tag!

EDIT: Ye gods! I love these bible-thumping people who continualy strive to inform us all of the dangers of magic and satanism!

www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

Please check out the link above for information on how some christians apperantly view the harmless pastime of roleplaying. I think it is fairly obvious that members of a religion who take ideas like this to such extremes are in dire need of a good psyciatrist.
I wouldn't really call them Christian. Nutballs, yes, exteamists, yes, but not Christian. You know, that lil strip actually reminded me of that old comic, Eerie.

closer, but still wronge! mwuhuhahahahahaha! two+two=6, because two has three letters in it!
You're argument is faulty at best. It's a TRICK question. 2+2=PIE!

So how is believing in Earth spirits and such any crazier than believing in an all-powerful invisible man in the sky?

i love this point, it is so true... people aren't aloud to believe in gods that represent aspects of life and nature, and yet it's okay to believe in some invisible guy in the sky that makes everything happen by himself

wicca is 'dangerous' but there are christians that become dangerous for their religion, that hide behind their religion... i don't see what's so bad about wicca...

i love this point, it is so true... people aren't aloud to believe in gods that represent aspects of life and nature, and yet it's okay to believe in some invisible guy in the sky that makes everything happen by himself

wicca is 'dangerous' but there are christians that become dangerous for their religion, that hide behind their religion... i don't see what's so bad about wicca...

Christians don't cast spells. They rely on God to do stuff. Which is reasonable because it makes sense that a supernatural being would be able to perform magic. But humans can't because we're retarded animals.

Commando, I greatly agree to what you say I to am an anti-occultist and I pray all the time.
And for those of you infiedels who are Occultist, find God, thats all I can say.
But there is a major diffrence between Cristians and Wiccans:
1. Christians follow the teachings of Jesus while wiccans worship gods/godesses form old religions(?)
2.There are some people who have had NDE's and most of them did not do drugs, thus they where not hilutioantions. Have the Wicca deity's appered to there followers? No.

...Wicca isn't dangerous. It's just retarded....


But humans can't because we're retarded animals....

Keep this up, New Genoa, and someone will start a spoof thread on the:

"Dangers of the Retarded"

Tag!
Please check out the link above for information on how some christians apperantly view the harmless pastime of roleplaying. I think it is fairly obvious that members of a religion who take ideas like this to such extremes are in dire need of a good psyciatrist.


Read: "Some people" not all. Not even close.

I'm an avid RPGer myself, yet go to a private Christian college. I've been playing since middle school.

As for this post, not all Christians are this way... in fact, Christianity does specifically say NOT to put down others, so PLEASE don't get a wrong impression of Christianity because of the actions of a few. We are all imperfect, too!

Keep this up, New Genoa, and someone will start a spoof thread on the:

"Dangers of the Retarded"

That would be discriminatory. Against me. Because I'm retarded. Man, that's so retarded.

christianity spreads hatred, murder, and fear throughout history.

lets compair the number of deaths cause in the name of j.c. to the number of deaths caused by Wicca.

hah, i'd have to agree with this guy/gal (i don't know...sry).....christianity has caused mankind to commit some of the greatest atrocities in history...for example The Holocaust (nazi germany was VERY catholic) the crusades (this shit wasn't justified) to name a few.....so i'd say christianity is FAR more dangerous than wicca....though I myself think that religion is prety silly. Uh oh, i should stop typing before Bush Jr.s' millicents decide to take me away on conspiracy to terrorize

An interesting aside:

The "evil" pagans of ancient Greece were very tolerant and even accepting of all other religions. They even had altars dedicated to "an unknown god", as documented in the Bible to cover all bases. The Christians took advantage of this tolerance to spread their message, and when they took control proceded to almost toally annihilate this spirit of tolerance and destroy the accrued learning of the "heretics".

Who seem to be the better people?

I'll support polytheists over monotheists in almost anycase because they can actually work with others!

(a) Wiccans do not all believe in reincarnation.

(b) Enchantments of love are forbidden, as they harm others.



The "gods" to Wiccans are generally symbols for specific aspects of nature, through which they believe the divine force runs.



Incorrect. Your second sentence is exactly what the principles of Wicca teach. In fact, it teaches that, should you attempt to use human beings in such a way, the harm you cause will come back to you.



In the belief, the stones, herbs, winds, etc. contain divine energies just as everything in nature does. Channeling that energy (as through a spell) is no different than asking a deity (through prayer) to do something for you.



The idea that one can ask the divine to do something for you is prevalent in all religion. In Chrstiainity, we call it prayer.


You really do amuse me.

i cannot add to that insightfull analysis..you go

hah, i'd have to agree with this guy/gal (i don't know...sry).....christianity has caused mankind to commit some of the greatest atrocities in history...for example The Holocaust (nazi germany was VERY catholic) the crusades (this shit wasn't justified) to name a few.....so i'd say christianity is FAR more dangerous than wicca....though I myself think that religion is prety silly. Uh oh, i should stop typing before Bush Jr.s' millicents decide to take me away on conspiracy to terrorize

Nazi Germany was hardly religious, and guess what? Martin Luther (Reformation - protestantism) was German. Germans weren't very catholic as you put it. Only a third of Germany is Catholic today... so how that qualifies as very catholic befuddles me. Not to mention that Hitler made quite a few comments that are anti-Christian, since the Church's power would threaten his own. He wanted COMPLETE loyalty to the state, so the church had to go. Sure, he may've used it to gain support, but after he had it, it remained a threat to his authority.

The Crusades had a religious background, but having access to the Eastern trade routes was more important. Now let's consider where Palestine is. It's on the coast of the Mediterranean. Where are the goods coming from china going to stop at? That's right, Palestine, where they'll then ship out to Italy. Now, think of the IMMENSE wealth and political power the Papacy would have if these areas were controlled. Secondly, keep in mind that the feudal system existed in Europe - meaning many knights were fighting each other. So how do you try to quell this interfighting? Send them off to holy land, promising them land and glory and whatnot.

Two things, neither very correct, doesn't support your thesis.

Nazi Germany was hardly religious, and guess what? Martin Luther (Reformation - protestantism) was German. Germans weren't very catholic as you put it.

The Crusades had a religious background, but having access to the Eastern trade routes was more important.

Two things, neither very correct, doesn't support your thesis.
still millions of innocents were killed in the name of christianity...do keep in mind it's about 4 AM here and i didn't really think any of this out because mainly, i think it's just damned depressing when people feel so bad about themselves that they need a scapegoat...such is the case now....yeah, "we're christians and that's not so bad, our religion caused the death of untold amounts(i'm sure it's somewhere, not really motivated to find it), but hey, at least we don't worship rocks and satan like primitives"....seriously....pointing fingers gets you nowhere...take some damned responsiblity and stop preying on less popular religions...if it works for you do it....we don't need persecution here, we just need peace and understanding...not some crazed conflict about why wiccans are evil...that just doesn't make sense.
- :cool: one love, one heart, lets get toghether and feel alright

pointing fingers gets you nowhere...

But isn't that what you're doing? :D

Sorry, no offence meant by that. I'm actually with you on this one--more wars have been started in the name of Christianity than in the name of Wicca. Mind you, Wicca's not very old yet, is it?

And Family Freedom 93...
I stand corrected. :)

~Oddardynia

has anyone else noticed commando has not posted since the 3rd page?

An interesting aside:

The "evil" pagans of ancient Greece were very tolerant and even accepting of all other religions. They even had altars dedicated to "an unknown god", as documented in the Bible to cover all bases. The Christians took advantage of this tolerance to spread their message, and when they took control proceded to almost toally annihilate this spirit of tolerance and destroy the accrued learning of the "heretics".

Who seem to be the better people?

I'll support polytheists over monotheists in almost anycase because they can actually work with others!

Agreed. Monotheism was the worst thing to happen to religion.

I'm not a fan of ANY form, but monotheism has led to way too much power consolidation and a lack of tollerance.

Heck, the lack of tollerance for other faiths is part of what freaked the Romans out about them. It was a cult of bigots.

Commando, I greatly agree to what you say I to am an anti-occultist and I pray all the time.


Technically, Christianity (and all religous groups) are cults. And Wiccans pray all the time.


And for those of you infiedels who are Occultist, find God, thats all I can say.


They have a God already. And a Goddess, as well. You're missing half of the picture.


But there is a major diffrence between Cristians and Wiccans:
1. Christians follow the teachings of Jesus while wiccans worship gods/godesses form old religions(?)


Many Wiccans follow the teachings of Jesus.

Jehovah is also a fairly old deity, from a fairly old religion, revamped constantly.

Also, hypocracy is a sin. Burn, baby.


2.There are some people who have had NDE's and most of them did not do drugs, thus they where not hilutioantions.


Please learn how to spell. And you do know that you can hallucinate just by being hit in the head really hard, not breathing much, or via any other event that causes your brain to lose oxygen access?


Have the Wicca deity's appered to there followers? No.

They would beg to differ.

That doesn't make him religious at all... that just means he was a christian in name, his mom was religious, and churches supported him. It doesn't make him religious, he just attracted some churches.

I find it interesting that whenever someone is supposed to be a christian, but does something not condoned by a church or denomination, he is deemed a "false christian."

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. If that link is a false christian, then christianity is a very weak chain.

Many of my friends are Wiccans, and they don't all dance around idols naked.
If anyone is interested in learning more about Wicca, they can do so here (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_faq.htm).

Cheers for the link. Appears to be the only worthwhile thing about this thread. :rolleyes:

2.There are some people who have had NDE's and most of them did not do drugs, thus they where not hilutioantions. Have the Wicca deity's appered to there followers? No.
Ooh, that was pretty funny.
Ya know, there are plenty of OTHER was to hallucinate than taking drugs...
And how would you know whether deities have appeared to any Wiccans?

Oh, this is funny. This made me laugh more in the past 5 minutes than I have in a week. This thread made me fall out of my computer chair laughing. It is hilarious that people can be so f***ing stupid! I was angry at first but then it just became funny.

To clarify- I'm Wiccan. I do spells. I pray to the God and the Goddess. I do not dance naked or worship idols or sacrifice people or animals. Sure, some of us practice skyclad, but that's very few. And no true Wiccan kills. Law of Three- Whatever you do will come back to you three times stronger. Punch someone, you break your arm. Help someone with homework, you ace a test. It's that simple. I would hate to see the payback for killing.

And before you condem, learn. Please. Do some research. Go to your local library. Hit some websites like witchvox.com or the one already mentioned. You will quickly learn we do not worship Satan. We don't even believe in Satan. I am willing to do research to learn about you and your beliefs. Now you do research to learn about me and my beliefs.

Hey, maybe since this is a threadallonyourmagic,basemaybe Iareshouldbelonginserttosome ussubliminal message

Hey, maybe since this is a threadallonyourmagic,basemaybe Iareshouldbelonginserttosome ussubliminal message
Oh noes! :eek:

I do not dance naked or worship idols or sacrifice people or animals.

Well where's the fun in that?

For me, the acid-test for faith is to research other faiths only to have your own faith enhanced through the new understanding rather than threatened by it. I read once that the greatest Christian in recent history was a Hindu (Ghandi).

What we humans call god is so much greater and incomprehensible than what can be found in a book or a church or even nature. Yet we choose a path to follow and worship the god as we see fit. Such is the nature of humanity that it becomes a competition, because we can't comprehend that more than one path can be right.

Religious intolerance is like racism - we only see the differences and not the similarities. We let those differences be magnified by our fear. It's a shame, because we could learn so much from each other. Compass recently showed a documentary on a convent in England adopting Buddhist meditation practice to enhance their focus and prayer to their Christian god. It was brilliant. Instead of their faith being weakened by the differences in faith, it was magnified. I'm sure enhanced faith is the desire of any person who genuinely and completely believes.

We're one big global village now, with our intarweb and tellofonikular devices, and I think the argument over which is the right path is a little redundant. For so many cultures to organically develop their own path to god/spirit without outside interference, perhaps we could step back and see that god manifests a path to all people, specific to what they need. The god of Catholics is the god of Islam is the god of Judaism is the god/goddess/universe of Wicca and so forth. We just have different and unique comprehensions of god. For someone of faith X to demonise the god-figure of faith Y is to insult the divine power that instigated faith X. We can't presume to spread fear and hatred because of a singular interpretation. All paths lead to god if the heart is right.

Wicca is not even on the same scale as Judaism and Islam. While I don't care for those 2 faiths, I respect their followers (though Islam is a very violent religion and is dangerous to international security there are some nice Muslims). Wicca is worship and slavery to idols, rocks, statues, and nature. A rock will not talk to you. An idol will not help you. A leaf will not hear your prayers. Wicca is worship of creation, not worship of the creator.

Commando3']Wicca is worship and slavery to idols, rocks, statues, and nature. A rock will not talk to you. An idol will not help you. A leaf will not hear your prayers. Wicca is worship of creation, not worship of the creator.

I still fail to see the bad in that. At least it teaches respect for nature, not like the first few parts of Genesis - you know, that part of the Bible that's a justification for the culling of many non-human forms of life on this planet. Antropocentrism, I believe they call it. :cool:

Deusporsancto!

Okay, can I just have one comment?

Yes, Christianity believes witchcraft is of the devil. It says so on the Bible. It is depending on supernatural forces that are not of God (hence, they are of the enemy).

Now, if you're a person who coudn't care two snibbits about what our God's word says, then fine. Our book of Revelations say that you are more than entitled to continue doing what you are doing. Our God isn't pleased, but if you don't believe in him, you're not going to mind him anyway. Fine.

To all Christians (Atheists and others, please refrain from sniggering. Let's keep this civil, thank you): I'm a Christian. A rabid evangelical one. I try to preach to everybody remotely preachable with half a mile of my person. But it will always be God's spirit that will lead a flock to you. Going around condemning Wicca in the internet with hardly any scholarly knowledge on the subject isn't righteous zeal. It's "giving God a bad name". Just like the Crusades. And the Borgia Popes.

Take this as a little friendly advice - if it isn't God leading you here and telling you what to say like he did with his prophets, you're only going to get yourselves screwed sideways. AND YES - GOD SPEAKS TO THOSE WHO CARE TO LISTEN AND HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH: again, stop sniggering.

To everybody else: Please bear in mind that as people, we are all idiot jerkwads to some extent. Some simply deny this fact more than others. Please - if you do honestly believe that you can be a better person without the Grace of My God and the Salvation of My Lord and Life Manager Jesus Christ then you can atleast PROVE IT.

You atheists blame Christians for being intolerant. Your argument will be better if you were tolerant yourselves.
Again, we realize that you don't have to be a member of a Church to be an institutionalized hypocrite. And don't you pull that revenge crap, too. A better person is a better person and a better belief is a better belief.

Politeness, hardly being a religious invention, never lost chic during the Enlightenment.

Cheers for the link. Appears to be the only worthwhile thing about this thread. :rolleyes:


Recognition, w00t!

Oh, and by the way - before any of you condemn the Bible for contradictions and some such errors, may I suggest YOU READ THE ENTIRE GARDURNED BOOK INSTEAD OF TAKING EVERYTHING OUT OF SFRIGGING CONTRAST!!!!!!!!

oh...kay... I think I got a little too carried away up there. I had no idea the lettering would be that huge - I swear! But that's still my point.

And by contrast, I meant con-TEXT. Context.

Oy vey, this NOT my night. Oh well, so long as you understand.

Commando3']Wicca is not even on the same scale as Judaism and Islam. While I don't care for those 2 faiths, I respect their followers (though Islam is a very violent religion and is dangerous to international security there are some nice Muslims). Wicca is worship and slavery to idols, rocks, statues, and nature. A rock will not talk to you. An idol will not help you. A leaf will not hear your prayers. Wicca is worship of creation, not worship of the creator.

Well, honestly, Wicca is no more "worship and slavery to idols, rocks, statues," than modern Christianity is. People wear crucifixes proudly while completely missing the point of the teachings of the Christ, fight legal battles about manger scenes while building sprawling "mega-churches" that believe in very little other than their own unquestionable self-righteousness and money and are more willing to listen to what some miniser or preacher tells them rather than explore their own personal relationship with God and figure out exactly what they believe and why. It's a false, unfair and hypcritical criticism of Wicca.

In my experience, most of the avowed Wiccans I have met simply pull the label as an excuse to wear funky clothes, look mysterious, wear far too much patchoulli instead of bathing reagularly and sleep with as many people as possible. However, similar charges can be leveled at the majority of fellow Christians I've met, although the charges themselves change. At the end of the day, neither one really knows their belief system or why they feel like they do. There's nothing inherantly wrong with this. People seek out peer groups for self-identity and religion provides an excellent way to separate "Us" from "Them".

When one meets a true practicioner of Wicca, though, and I've met a few and read books by others, the true beauty and creativity of this religion becomes clear and very attractive. Mostly they acknowledge that they are in the process of creating their religion and their belief system everyday. They don't feel that they are practicing some sort of ancient belief system handed down by covens in books of shadow since the dawn of time. They know that whatever "witchcraft" was is gone and lost to time. They are simply responding to feelings and intuitions about divinity, in the most natural way they know of, do develop a deeper understanding and connection with whatever divinity may exist. They're forming a deeply personal relationship with God and that is the whole point of spiritual inquiry.

It's a mistake to judge any belief system or religion by the example of the majority of it's followers. Most people, unfortunately, don't really seek to understand why the believe what they believe or what it really means to them and their lives. While a rock may not talk to you, it seems most people won't really talk to you, either. They'll talk at you until their throats are bloody, but there's no exchange of ideas or true building of understanding because, for most people, it's just not important. They have other, perfectly valid, problems and concerns and don't wish to introduce anymore grey areas into their lives. That's their choice and they have a right to make it. It does mean, though, that they represent only a very surface understanding of their own spirituality and one must remember this when using them to understand the basis of any spiritual tradition.

oh...kay... I think I got a little too carried away up there. I had no idea the lettering would be that huge - I swear! But that's still my point.

And by contrast, I meant con-TEXT. Context.

Oy vey, this NOT my night. Oh well, so long as you understand.

You can always edit posts btw. And when people feel the need to write things in big bold colourful font it always seems like they're distracting people from the fact they can't provide a decent argument for the point they're making...

Well, it's good to see religious freedom is alive and well..lol I think as an atheist and like-minded people such as myself should just sit back and watch you all fight and destroy each other one day because you all have such respect for each others beliefs :rolleyes: and then the atheists shall inherit the earth. Hahaha. Silly people. :p

Commando3']The Pope serves God and God alone. The occultist serves rocks and beads and idols.

Catholicism has made an idol of Christ... and image of the crucifixion.

Catholics are in no position to be telling OTHERS about idolatry.

Yes, yes, we must blatantly ignore and despise all other cultures. They're really dangerous. Anyone who says otherwise is a terrorist.

Maybe Wiccans should post a thread entitled "The Dangers of Western Christianity"

Maybe Wiccans should post a thread entitled "The Dangers of Western Christianity"
Psst! Over here!
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=417431

Kneel before thy master! :p

I'm kneeling, I'm kneeling.
And lots of other stuff I can't say here!

Harry Potter is Wiccan.

Sorry friend, but I think you should know... 'Harry Potter' is fictional.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Wicca an Atheistic Religion? Do wiccans believe in a god (or more than one) or only in spirits?

You are wrong.

God Bless you, Sweet Commando, for bringing this danger to everyone's attention.

Has anyone else noticed that it is the Wiccans of this board who invade all religious threads, wildly attempting to disprove the Monotheism of God and attempting to inflame believers with posts peppered with words like Oak tree, Holly leaf, and Stonehenge. Yet, they complain about a mythical situation where it is the christians who want to "shove religion down people's throats"?

Please also explain to me:

How can Wiccans can be Anti-war, but Pro-Human Sacrifice?

How Wiccans are suppose to help the little guy: Yet every chance they get, they levy taxes of livestock just so they can "burn" them on the altar? Sounds like a racket to just get free barbecue.

We all have to be very afraid of Wiccans. They come off as all hippy-like... They offer you a doobie, maybe some wine. They chat you up and invite you back to their place to watch videos... Next thing you know, you wake up in a wicker basket, high on mistletoe and your pants are missing.

Just remember this warning when that day comes you wake up totally naked, with your crotch covered in holly-sap, and surrounded by wacked out Wiccans painted blue and carrying scimitars.

Misplaced sarcasm... really badly informed, or just troll?

Please tell me, so I know whether you are worth the debate...

They trust something that is outside their own life to resolve a problem.

So do Christians.

Look, I mean you can have your religion and things, but stop trying to force it on others.
:sniper: Is what shuld happen to people who think that their religion is THE one, in my opinion (As marx wrote) "Religion is the opiate of the masses" -It discourages free thought and chains you down. I like to do what I want for myself. I am incontrol of my own life, and if you feel the need to be religious, GO AHEAD, but honestly know that your ridiculous assumptions are not going to sway anyone over to your masses.

Look, I mean you can have your religion and things, but stop trying to force it on others.
:sniper: Is what shuld happen to people who think that their religion is THE one, in my opinion (As marx wrote) "Religion is the opiate of the masses" -It discourages free thought and chains you down. I like to do what I want for myself. I am incontrol of my own life, and if you feel the need to be religious, GO AHEAD, but honestly know that your ridiculous assumptions are not going to sway anyone over to your masses.

Ok, so it's bad to say, "My religion is the best!" but it's ok to say, "All religion is dumb!"? Honestly, if you don't want Christians to convert you, don't try to convert them. :rolleyes:

Im not tryin to convert anyone, Im just stating the obvious

Im not tryin to convert anyone, Im just stating the obvious

Without religion the plauge would be worse and everyone illiterate.

So do Christians.

No they don't.

Im not tryin to convert anyone, Im just stating the obvious

I agree that the existance of god is not logical, but you don't have to insult those who believe in Him/Her/It/Them.

Look, I mean you can have your religion and things, but stop trying to force it on others.
:sniper: Is what shuld happen to people who think that their religion is THE one, in my opinion (As marx wrote) "Religion is the opiate of the masses" -It discourages free thought and chains you down. I like to do what I want for myself. I am incontrol of my own life, and if you feel the need to be religious, GO AHEAD, but honestly know that your ridiculous assumptions are not going to sway anyone over to your masses.

Yeah and the people who followed Marx's teaching never killed anyone...ha.

Look, I mean you can have your religion and things, but stop trying to force it on others.
:sniper: Is what shuld happen to people who think that their religion is THE one, in my opinion (As marx wrote) "Religion is the opiate of the masses" -It discourages free thought and chains you down. I like to do what I want for myself. I am incontrol of my own life, and if you feel the need to be religious, GO AHEAD, but honestly know that your ridiculous assumptions are not going to sway anyone over to your masses.

How do you define 'forcing their religion on others' though? I mean, you can't exactly tell people not to preach their religion.

I thought even the Wiccan Pro's said Wicca was only about 50 years old?

Was pretty agreed on the rest of the post though :)
Gardnerian Wicca is about half a century old, but the roots go back much further.

One only has to look at where the word "Witch" comes from - already a current word when King James commisioned HIS version of the Bible.(Wicca and Wicce).

Aspects can be traced in language back to Egypt. Middle-ages science was thought to be magical - and named after the 'magics' of earlier peoples... in the form of 'Alchemy'. (Named for Kem - Egypt).

Many of the rituals of modern Wicca derive from classical rituals... such of those of the Thessalonians, two millenia ago... others from the Celts of a similar time period and earlier. (Also worth noting where the Celts originally came FROM.... in order to spot the commanality of those beliefs).

Gardner's Wicca IS a new artifact... but only in the way that modern Catholicism is a new artifact.

Icons of related religion date back 25,000 years (Venus of Willedndorf).

I don't like Wiccans.

Christians don't cast spells. They rely on God to do stuff. Which is reasonable because it makes sense that a supernatural being would be able to perform magic. But humans can't because we're retarded animals.
Christians 'cast spells' exactly as much as Wiccans do... they just use a different name.

A Wiccan 'spell' would be an entreaty to whatever powers that might be, for a positive outcome.... for example.

A Christian prayer would be an entreaty to whatever powers that might be, for a positive outcome... for example.

I don't like Wiccans.

Well there's an intelligent and unbiased post. :rolleyes:

You know there is no way on earth we can possibly know what was meant by the ancient Hebrews when then wrote down the title of "Witch" and why they hated them so much that they wouldn't suffer one to live. Chances are they were one the tribes around the area that the Hebrews wiped out.

We do know that western society routinely slaughtered whole towns for being witches up to about three hundred years ago. Today we call this the Women's Holocaust because millions were raped, tortured, and killed in every conceivable sadistic way in the name of saving their souls.

Yes my friends nothing like having Jesus for cover when you're into S&M and a serial murder.

Of course we have people who call themselves "Witches" today like we have people who call themselves "Druids". The longest running continuous tradition for the "Druids" is being on the Dole Que, (that's Welfare line to you Americans). I suspect the same for Witches.

The roots of the modern "Magic" movement only goes back as far as the 19th century when boorish English aristocrats, writers, and poets tried to give their evenings a little excitement with drug abuse and creating new religions. This fad went into decline with the advent of the phonograph, radio, and television, that is until the 1960s when hippies rediscovered these religions in the drug induced writings of Victorians available in used book shops. With the powerful addition of illegal narcotics and “Free Love”, yes Houston we have witches.

I don't like Wiccans.

But they always say such lovely things about you.

How do you define 'forcing their religion on others' though? I mean, you can't exactly tell people not to preach their religion.

Forcible conversion (by gunpoint, in exchange for essential humanitarian aid, etc.) or assimilation (like how the American government tried to eliminate Native cultures by making them all cookie-cutter "modern".)

Another negative aspect is that of superstition. ... Thus they end up by becoming slaves to objects, idols, amulets and talismans.


Refer to: All religion.

Commando3']Wicca is not even on the same scale as Judaism and Islam. While I don't care for those 2 faiths, I respect their followers (though Islam is a very violent religion and is dangerous to international security there are some nice Muslims). Wicca is worship and slavery to idols, rocks, statues, and nature. A rock will not talk to you. An idol will not help you. A leaf will not hear your prayers. Wicca is worship of creation, not worship of the creator.

And yet... there is just as much evidence for 'Wicca' being the true faith, as for Christianity.

So - odds are, the 'leaf-worshipper' is just as likely to be right as the 'god-botherer'...

And yet... there is just as much evidence for 'Wicca' being the true faith, as for Christianity.

So - odds are, the 'leaf-worshipper' is just as likely to be right as the 'god-botherer'...

I'd go one further and say that, if deity exists, they're both right. There are many roads leading home.

Without religion the plauge would be worse and everyone illiterate.

Sorry, I don't speak English....

I'd go one further and say that, if deity exists, they're both right. There are many roads leading home.

That's my point... if there IS a 'god', or series of 'gods'... each religion has the same 'right' to claim to be the 'true' one... and all seem to have the same amount of evidence... i.e. anecdotal, often in a big book.

I must say, I found this thread thoroughly entertaining. I'm relieved to see we have so many cool heads here on NS. Religious tolerance is very important to me.

For any who feel threatened by Wicca, or other earth-based or pagan religions, please try to calm down. Wiccans aren't trying to steal your children or your soul. They're exactly the same as you are, they just happen to get their spiritual fulfillment via a different route.

Also, I might point out that the rising number of young females who are converting to Wicca might be due to the fact that Wicca is much more egalitarian, much less misandrist / sexist than some forms of Christianity. These young women are just looking for the equality they feel they deserve, and I say, more power to them!

One might argue that there are Christian sects that support equality, and that these young women should be staying within the realm of Christianity when they convert.

Of course, one might also argue that Christianity used to be about “loving one's neighbor” but that recently, some elements of the church have been using part of the Christian doctrine to justify war. One might choose Wicca because its doctrine includes far less dangerous elements, which are less susceptible to the kind of “reinterpretation” that has caused so many problems with Christianity before.

Well there's an intelligent and unbiased post. :rolleyes:

Isn't it? I thought so... just an opinion, no suggestions, no arguments... and no silly delusions or pretense of being "unbiased."

I must say, I found this thread thoroughly entertaining. I'm relieved to see we have so many cool heads here on NS. Religious tolerance is very important to me.

For any who feel threatened by Wicca, or other earth-based or pagan religions, please try to calm down. Wiccans aren't trying to steal your children or your soul. They're exactly the same as you are, they just happen to get their spiritual fulfillment via a different route.

Also, I might point out that the rising number of young females who are converting to Wicca might be due to the fact that Wicca is much more egalitarian, much less misandrist / sexist than some forms of Christianity. These young women are just looking for the equality they feel they deserve, and I say, more power to them!

One might argue that there are Christian sects that support equality, and that these young women should be staying within the realm of Christianity when they convert.

Of course, one might also argue that Christianity used to be about “loving one's neighbor” but that recently, some elements of the church have been using part of the Christian doctrine to justify war. One might choose Wicca because its doctrine includes far less dangerous elements, which are less susceptible to the kind of “reinterpretation” that has caused so many problems with Christianity before.

It's quite unfair of you to try to draw this bullshit line between religions. If they preach the same doctrine, either one can be misinterpreted - the Crusades and documented instances of human sacrifice are examples that people often just use religion as a justification for whatever else they want to do.

That being said, I don't advocate banning or eliminating religion - fringe members should not taint the entirety of any religion.

Isn't it? I thought so... just an opinion, no suggestions, no arguments... and no silly delusions or pretense of being "unbiased."
This reminds me of an atheist friend of mine who gets pissed off at Wiccans because he doesn't know how to insult their religion, and thus calls it illegitimate (Not to say that that's why you don't like Wiccans)

Did he mention anywhere in there that they eat babies? I think that should be a key element of our campaign against Wiccans: they eat babies. Even dead ones. They especially like Christian babies. And abortions. That is why we should stop abortions, Wiccans eat them.


Jk. What a nutcase. I think the crap's been kicked out of him pretty good by now. When will you learn, Commando?

I will admit I'm guilty of the sin of not reading every single post, so this may have been said already. But, since you gave a Q&A list, Commando, I'll give you one.

Abridged from http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_faq.htm

What is Wicca?

Wicca, sometimes called "The Craft" or "The Craft of the Wise" is one of many earth-based religion.

Who are the Goddess and God in Wicca?

Many Wiccans believe in a deity that is largely unknowable -- sometimes called "The All" or "The One." However, they believe that they can comprehend the male and female aspects of the deity, whom they call the God and the Goddess. Sometimes, they commune with "The Goddess" or "The God." Other times, they link with specific Pagan deities from the past. Instead of "the Goddess," they might relate to Athena, Brigit, Ceridwen, Diana, Hecate, Ishtar, Isis, Venus, etc. In place of "The God" they may link to Adonis, Apollo, Dionysus, Odin, Osiris, Pan, Thor, Zeus, etc.

How do Wiccans worship the God and Goddess?

Some Wiccans pray to their God or Goddess. More Wiccans probably feel that they have more of a partnership with the God and Goddess than the God/worshiper relationship found in Christianity and other world religions. They need the Goddess and God; the God and Goddess need them. They welcome communion with the God and Goddess; they don't really worship them in the same way as followers of other religions do.

Is Wicca a form of Satanism?

The short answer is "No." The long answer is "It depends."
bullet To some conservative Christians, all religions other than their own are forms of Satanism in which followers worship Satan or one of his demons. So, they view Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Wicca, and dozens of other religions as varieties of Satanism.
bullet However, most people recognize that there are over many dozens of religions in the world, with different beliefs about deity, humanity and the rest of the universe. One of these is Wicca. Another is Satanism. These two religions have entirely different beliefs about deity, different rules for ethical behavior, different expectations from their membership, different views of the universe, different seasonal days of celebration, etc. Wiccans do not recognize an all-evil deity or quasi-deity like Satan. It is mainly Christianity and Islam which teach that Satan exists, either as an evil principle or as an all-evil fallen angel with supernatural powers.

Wicca and Satanism are not at all similar religions. However, the Christian church linked them in the past -- particularly during the Witch burning times of the late Middle Ages and Renaissance. They regarded Witches as Satan worshipers. Some Christian denominations have not been particularly thorough in correcting mistakes of the past. So, Wicca and Satanism continue to be linked in many people's minds.

Is Wicca a form of Paganism?

"Pagan" is one of those religious terms which has so many conflicting definitions that the word is meaningless. "Neopaganism" is a better term. It refers to a group of many religious belief systems that are reconstructions of (or patterned after) ancient Pagan religions. Wicca is one Neopagan religion, as are Asatru (Norse Neopaganism), Druidism, Shamanism, and ancient Egyptian, Roman, Greek and other religions.

What do Wiccan rituals involve?

Wiccan rituals take many forms. But they all generally include:
The casting of a circle -- the consecration of a sacred space.
The invocation of a deity/deities.
The body of the ritual, which may involve magick, spell casting, a community meal, dance, readings, singing, etc.
Closing or banishing of the circle -- restoration of the space to ordinary usage.

What does being a Wiccan involve?

Common to almost all Wiccans is the recognition of the existence of the Goddess, and her consort the horned God. These may be viewed as real living personal entities, or as symbols.

Wiccans follow the Wiccan Rede "A'in it harm none, do what thou wilt." 2 This means that as long as it harms no one, including yourself, one is free to do what they wish. A Wiccan carefully reviews the implications of each action or non-action in her/his life. Domination, manipulation and control are particularly prohibited by the Rede.

How can I do a spell to make someone love me?

There are many "Witchcraft" web sites and booklets that lists spells of all types. However, many of these are forbidden to Wiccans because they involve an attempt to control, dominate or manipulate another person. Using such a spell would conflict with the Wiccan Rede (see above). However, a Wiccan could cast a spell to help make themselves more open to love. They could cast a spell to help make another person more open to love, if that person specifically asked for it.

How does Wicca differ from Christianity?

In many ways, the two are similar. For example, the have similar ethics of reciprocity. The Wiccan Rede and Christianity's Golden Rule both emphasize kindness to and consideration of others. But there are many differences:
On sexual and gender matters:
Wicca has generally accepted the equality of men and women. Christianity has historically reserved positions of power in the church, the rest of society and the family for males.
Wicca regards responsible sexual behavior as a gift of the Goddess. Some committed Wiccan couples engage in private sexual rituals. Christianity has tended to have a negative and restrictive view of sexual behavior.
Wicca generally accepts all sexual orientations as normal and natural: heterosexual, homosexual and bisexual.
Wicca is largely an oral tradition, and has no holy text that corresponds to the Christian Bible.
Wiccans stress the cycles of life and look upon time largely as cyclical. Christianity largely views time as linear.
Most Wiccans reject the concept of Heaven and Hell, and embrace reincarnation. The concept that a person must believe certain things or behave in a certain way to achieve salvation and avoid being tortured in Hell for all eternity is foreign to Wicca.
Wiccans feel close to nature and are highly concerned about its preservation.
Wiccans do not proselytize. In particular, they do not usually dedicate, teach, or initiate potential converts unless they are 18 years or older.
Where possible, and where safe, Wiccans prefer to perform their rituals out-of-doors.



as for being evil: this taken from http://www.cog.org/wicca/faq.html



Q. Are you Satanists?
No. To be a Satanist, one must believe in Satan. Witches do not believe in Satan, as such. The popular image of the goat-hooved, pointy-horned devil is a deliberate corruption by the early missionary church of the European Pagan Horned God, who has been depicted in Greece as Pan, and in ancient Gaul as Cernunnos (who is pictured having a stag's antlers). Making indigenous gods into evil beings was the early church's most reliable method of gaining converts. Some missionary Christian groups continue the practice to this day, in areas that have retained their old religions.

Our Horned God is neither evil nor a source of evil; He is the energy of nature, of plant and animal life, which energy manifests for people in music and dance, intoxication and ecstasy, and all joyous activities, including lovemaking.

Q. What about evil? What are your ethics/morals?
We believe that life is essentially good, and creation and destruction are part of natural cycles. Clearly, though, there is evil in the world. We believe its source is not any kind of devil or demiurge, but human action (note: not human nature). Evil is also subjective: what is good for one may be evil for another and vice versa. For example, a tiger kills an antelope - the antelope's death is bad to the antelope, but good to the tiger, who does, after all, have to eat. The deities of the Craft, if they have any inclination at all, incline towards the positive; most are neither "good" nor "evil," they just are, in the same way any elemental force, like fire or the weather, is. Our deities give us power; how we choose to use that power is up to us.

That use is directed, first and foremost, by the Witches' Rede: "If it harm none, do what you will." It is also directed in part by the Law of Threefold Return: what you give out returns to you threefold. If you work ill, threefold ill comes back to you. If you work good, threefold good comes back to you.

Witches (and members of other indigenous religions) have known all along what science is only beginning to acknowledge: that all systems on the planet are interconnected, all life is one. When imbalance is caused in one area, the whole system is thrown out of balance. Acts of evil cause imbalance. The works of Witchcraft are toward balance and harmony. We are healers, protectors; we will act swiftly and forcefully in defense against aggression, but we do not ourselves attack.

Q. Do you do animal/human sacrifices?
No. Our own internal life-force is sufficient to whatever task we may require; we have no need of stealing the life-force of another. As offerings to our deities, Witches may burn incense or candles, pour out libations, place sacred herbs or food in some outdoor spot, bury talismans or money. Some female Witches use their own menstrual blood in spells; other Witches may prick themselves (in these enlightened days, usually with sterile lancets) and offer a drop or two of their own blood. But the only blood a Witch has a right to offer is her/his own. The sacrifice of another's is against the Rede.

I already posted a link to that website, but you might be the first one to actually post the content. :)

I already posted a link to that website, but you might be the first one to actually post the content. :)

Again, I didn't read all the posts

I read the first 2 pages, then posted, then went back and read the first 12 or so pages, then skimmed the last couple to see if NSCommando was even still posting

If you're reading this, Commando, please, reply to my post, tell me exactly why that's satanism and evil.

As for spells/rituals "not doing anything"- Prayer never did jack shit for me before I converted to Wicca. I was raised Christian.

As for the Goddess never appearing to her followers: many fey, spirits, and goddesses appear. Futhermore, I have channelled various deities, which is more than you can say about your God (or, if you HAVE channelled him, I'd love to hear about how that's holy and what I do is unholy).

I don't belive in Christian hell, so how can I be worshopping Satan? Satan is just a perversion of Pan to begin with! I do belive in demons, devils, and forces of ill, and refer to the plane on which they reside as "hell", but it's not an actual place humans go after death.

It's quite unfair of you to try to draw this bullshit line between religions. If they preach the same doctrine, either one can be misinterpreted - the Crusades and documented instances of human sacrifice are examples that people often just use religion as a justification for whatever else they want to do.
I'm not attempting to suggest that such a hard line exists, or has validity. I'm attempting to explain a phenomenon involving people, which requires you to look into their minds, which are not necessarily completely logical.

I'm also not trying to suggest that one cannot use Wicca to justify something horrible. Only that I know of no such instances of it yet, and that due to the lack of "kill your neighbor"-type quotes in authentic literature on Wicca, I suspect that someone trying to use such literature to incite violence (or whatever) would be debunked pretty quickly.

That being said, I don't advocate banning or eliminating religion - fringe members should not taint the entirety of any religion.
I think we're on the same page, here.

Again, I didn't read all the posts

I read the first 2 pages, then posted, then went back and read the first 12 or so pages, then skimmed the last couple to see if NSCommando was even still posting

If you're reading this, Commando, please, reply to my post, tell me exactly why that's satanism and evil.

As for spells/rituals "not doing anything"- Prayer never did jack shit for me before I converted to Wicca. I was raised Christian.

As for the Goddess never appearing to her followers: many fey, spirits, and goddesses appear. Futhermore, I have channelled various deities, which is more than you can say about your God (or, if you HAVE channelled him, I'd love to hear about how that's holy and what I do is unholy).

I don't belive in Christian hell, so how can I be worshopping Satan? Satan is just a perversion of Pan to begin with! I do belive in demons, devils, and forces of ill, and refer to the plane on which they reside as "hell", but it's not an actual place humans go after death.


What exactly constitutes "channelling?"

Also, w2g Akusei! Nice posts! B)

What exactly constitutes "channelling?"

Drawing the power of the Goddess into myself. I may have misspelled that....

I tell ya, when I think of nutty religious folk who creep me out, it's generally not the Wiccans that I'm thinking of.
The Wiccans aren't the ones that constantly leave unwanted literature on my door.
The Wiccans don't tell me I'm going to be tortued for eternity for not believing the way they do.
The Wiccans don't try to pass legislation to prevent me from living by my personal choices because they have differing ideas of morality.

I tell ya, when I think of nutty religious folk who creep me out, it's generally not the Wiccans that I'm thinking of.
The Wiccans aren't the ones that constantly leave unwanted literature on my door.
The Wiccans don't tell me I'm going to be tortued for eternity for not believing the way they do.
The Wiccans don't try to pass legislation to prevent me from living by my personal choices because they have differing ideas of morality.

Yeah... But it is the Wiccans who keep hiding my tinfoil hat and in the middle of the night keep whispering evil thoughts into my brain.

Yeah... But it is the Wiccans who keep hiding my tinfoil hat and in the middle of the night keep whispering evil thoughts into my brain.

don't fret, precious, I'm here, step away from the window
Go back to sleeeeepppp
Lay your head down child
I won't let the boogeyman come
Counting bodies like sheep
To the rhythm of the war drums
Pay no mind to the rabble
Pay no mind to the rabble
Head down, go to sleep
To the rhythm of the war drums
Pay no mind what other voices say
They don't care about you, like I do, like I do
Safe from pain and truth and choice and other poison devils,
See, they don't give a fuck about you, like I do.
Just stay with me, safe and ignorant,
Go back to sleep
Go back to sleep

WICCAN SPELL!!!!

or, ya know, not.

First one to guess the actual source gets a free cookie NO GOOGLE THAT'S CHEATING

“Originally Posted by Hanseania

Please check out the link above for information on how some christians apperantly view the harmless pastime of roleplaying. I think it is fairly obvious that members of a religion who take ideas like this to such extremes are in dire need of a good psyciatrist.”

It's not the religion that takes the ideas to such an extreme, it's people.

“Originally Posted by New Genoa

But humans can't because we're retarded animals....”

Bullshit and directly counter to the plan God layed out for us. We were animals, but when Eve took the apple (which I believe God always intended for her to. If you're interested in that rant/explination, just tell me and I'll post it) we accended to what we are now. Our ultimate goal is to accend once again to the next spiritual plateau. Nirvana, Heaven, whatever you wanna call it.


“I'm not a fan of ANY form, but monotheism has led to way too much power consolidation and a lack of tollerance.”

I am a monothiest and think of my self as very tolerant. Also, Islam is monotheiest and has no set hierarchy.


“They have a God already. And a Goddess, as well. You're missing half of the picture.”

The early Hebrew word for "God" refered to the spot in ther temple where they believed Jehova resided WITH HIS FEMALE CONSORT. A complementing pair. Male and famale. Balance. The idea of perfect unity through balance of complmenting oposites is what Judeism, Christianity, Islam is originally based on, and is something that can be found in nearly every other religion around the globe. So Christianity and Wicca are not mutually exclusive on that point.


“I find it interesting that whenever someone is supposed to be a christian, but does something not condoned by a church or denomination, he is deemed a "false christian."

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. If that link is a false christian, then christianity is a very weak chain.”

Does the same hold true for all those "false wiccans" who are only doing it to be rebelious and dark, who use it and an excuse to sleep around, who do indeed worship Satan as well? There is a difference between a religion and it's fallowers. Just because some "wiccans" worship Satan and "darkness" does not mean that Wicca is Satanic. It is in fact not. Just because some Christans are intollerent and kill people does not mean that Christanity is a murdurous religion.


“For me, the acid-test for faith is to research other faiths only to have your own faith enhanced through the new understanding rather than threatened by it. I read once that the greatest Christian in recent history was a Hindu (Ghandi).”

"Test everything, that which remains is true" -Jesus.
I personally don't believe you can really be truly devout in your religion or understand it completly without first doubting it.


“What we humans call god is so much greater and incomprehensible than what can be found in a book or a church or even nature. Yet we choose a path to follow and worship the god as we see fit. Such is the nature of humanity that it becomes a competition, because we can't comprehend that more than one path can be right.”

It's all symbolism to the same concept. All religions are really the same. It's the symbolism that is different, but then we take the symbolism literly.


“Wicca is not even on the same scale as Judaism and Islam. While I don't care for those 2 faiths, I respect their followers (though Islam is a very violent religion and is dangerous to international security there are some nice Muslims). Wicca is worship and slavery to idols, rocks, statues, and nature. A rock will not talk to you. An idol will not help you. A leaf will not hear your prayers. Wicca is worship of creation, not worship of the creator.”

Once again, Islam is not a violent religion. It is based off of Christanity, so if you deride Islam, you are at the same time deriding your own God. Does the Cursades and Inquesition make Christanty a evil religion? Nope, the actions of the fallowers is not what the religion is. Also, the VAST majority of Musilms are "nice Muslims," only a small percentage fallow the misguided and un-Islmaic jihadists.


“"A nation that kills it's own children is a nation without hope."-Pope John Paul II”

And a nation that kills forgieners by the thousands for economic and military gain has no soul. John Paul also believed that the invasion of Iraq was evil and unjustified, and that America's consumer capitalism and materialism was a desiese that was infacting the rest of the world.


“Wiccan rituals take many forms. But they all generally include:
The casting of a circle -- the consecration of a sacred space.
The invocation of a deity/deities.
The body of the ritual, which may involve magick, spell casting, a community meal, dance, readings, singing, etc.”

Consectation of a sacred place - The preist in my church uses the sacred cencor to purify an area before any ritual, such as baptism, Holy Communion, or the reading of the Divine Literagy.

Invocation of deity/deities - As he does this, and throughout the ritual/service, the preist and the congegation invoke God to purify the area/concecrate the ritual/bless a person or object/et cetera

The body of the ritual, which may involve magick, spell casting, a community meal, dance, readings, singing, etc. - Body of the ritual, which may involve changing wine and bread into the Body and Blood of our God, readings, singing, the use of objects as foci of spiritual energys (annointoing with Holy Unction to protect from evil, palms folded into crosses, et cetera).

Dude, it's all the same. A little tolerence up in this heezy. The greatest sin in Christanity is hate. Let's all just love and be nice to each other, like that crazy Jewish carpenter told us to all those years ago.




OK, now for my 2 cents. It's all the same. Religion is just the set of symbology you use to get to understand the incomprehencible and raise to the next level. The true devouts of religions relaise this. Monks who do not speak for 25 years so they may alter their perceptions and contemplate the nature of God, clerics who spin and spin till their equilipbrium is so thrown that there is total disconect between the mental and the physical, monks, scholars, Buddushavas, the greats of all religions, those who have found inner peace, those who have moved beyond the symbols that try to express that unexpressible. That is why you can have to mutually exclusive creation stories in the Torah, and it is not a contrdiction, it is an attempt to move past the literal and the symbolic into the deeper truth. You know what I'm saying?

Also, I love you all

First one to guess the actual source gets a free cookie NO GOOGLE THAT'S CHEATING
It's a song by A Perfect Circle.

“Originally Posted by Hanseania

Please check out the link above for information on how some christians apperantly view the harmless pastime of roleplaying. I think it is fairly obvious that members of a religion who take ideas like this to such extremes are in dire need of a good psyciatrist.”

It's not the religion that takes the ideas to such an extreme, it's people.

“Originally Posted by New Genoa

But humans can't because we're retarded animals....”

Bullshit and directly counter to the plan God layed out for us. We were animals, but when Eve took the apple (which I believe God always intended for her to. If you're interested in that rant/explination, just tell me and I'll post it) we accended to what we are now. Our ultimate goal is to accend once again to the next spiritual plateau. Nirvana, Heaven, whatever you wanna call it.


“I'm not a fan of ANY form, but monotheism has led to way too much power consolidation and a lack of tollerance.”

I am a monothiest and think of my self as very tolerant. Also, Islam is monotheiest and has no set hierarchy.


“They have a God already. And a Goddess, as well. You're missing half of the picture.”

The early Hebrew word for "God" refered to the spot in ther temple where they believed Jehova resided WITH HIS FEMALE CONSORT. A complementing pair. Male and famale. Balance. The idea of perfect unity through balance of complmenting oposites is what Judeism, Christianity, Islam is originally based on, and is something that can be found in nearly every other religion around the globe. So Christianity and Wicca are not mutually exclusive on that point.


“I find it interesting that whenever someone is supposed to be a christian, but does something not condoned by a church or denomination, he is deemed a "false christian."

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. If that link is a false christian, then christianity is a very weak chain.”

Does the same hold true for all those "false wiccans" who are only doing it to be rebelious and dark, who use it and an excuse to sleep around, who do indeed worship Satan as well? There is a difference between a religion and it's fallowers. Just because some "wiccans" worship Satan and "darkness" does not mean that Wicca is Satanic. It is in fact not. Just because some Christans are intollerent and kill people does not mean that Christanity is a murdurous religion.


“For me, the acid-test for faith is to research other faiths only to have your own faith enhanced through the new understanding rather than threatened by it. I read once that the greatest Christian in recent history was a Hindu (Ghandi).”

"Test everything, that which remains is true" -Jesus.
I personally don't believe you can really be truly devout in your religion or understand it completly without first doubting it.


“What we humans call god is so much greater and incomprehensible than what can be found in a book or a church or even nature. Yet we choose a path to follow and worship the god as we see fit. Such is the nature of humanity that it becomes a competition, because we can't comprehend that more than one path can be right.”

It's all symbolism to the same concept. All religions are really the same. It's the symbolism that is different, but then we take the symbolism literly.


“Wicca is not even on the same scale as Judaism and Islam. While I don't care for those 2 faiths, I respect their followers (though Islam is a very violent religion and is dangerous to international security there are some nice Muslims). Wicca is worship and slavery to idols, rocks, statues, and nature. A rock will not talk to you. An idol will not help you. A leaf will not hear your prayers. Wicca is worship of creation, not worship of the creator.”

Once again, Islam is not a violent religion. It is based off of Christanity, so if you deride Islam, you are at the same time deriding your own God. Does the Cursades and Inquesition make Christanty a evil religion? Nope, the actions of the fallowers is not what the religion is. Also, the VAST majority of Musilms are "nice Muslims," only a small percentage fallow the misguided and un-Islmaic jihadists.


“"A nation that kills it's own children is a nation without hope."-Pope John Paul II”

And a nation that kills forgieners by the thousands for economic and military gain has no soul. John Paul also believed that the invasion of Iraq was evil and unjustified, and that America's consumer capitalism and materialism was a desiese that was infacting the rest of the world.


“Wiccan rituals take many forms. But they all generally include:
The casting of a circle -- the consecration of a sacred space.
The invocation of a deity/deities.
The body of the ritual, which may involve magick, spell casting, a community meal, dance, readings, singing, etc.”

Consectation of a sacred place - The preist in my church uses the sacred cencor to purify an area before any ritual, such as baptism, Holy Communion, or the reading of the Divine Literagy.

Invocation of deity/deities - As he does this, and throughout the ritual/service, the preist and the congegation invoke God to purify the area/concecrate the ritual/bless a person or object/et cetera

The body of the ritual, which may involve magick, spell casting, a community meal, dance, readings, singing, etc. - Body of the ritual, which may involve changing wine and bread into the Body and Blood of our God, readings, singing, the use of objects as foci of spiritual energys (annointoing with Holy Unction to protect from evil, palms folded into crosses, et cetera).

Dude, it's all the same. A little tolerence up in this heezy. The greatest sin in Christanity is hate. Let's all just love and be nice to each other, like that crazy Jewish carpenter told us to all those years ago.




OK, now for my 2 cents. It's all the same. Religion is just the set of symbology you use to get to understand the incomprehencible and raise to the next level. The true devouts of religions relaise this. Monks who do not speak for 25 years so they may alter their perceptions and contemplate the nature of God, clerics who spin and spin till their equilibrium is so thrown that there is total disconect between the mental and the physical, monks, scholars, Buddushavas, the greats of all religions, those who have found inner peace, those who have moved beyond the symbols that try to express that unexpressible. That is why you can have to mutually exclusive creation stories in the Torah, and it is not a contrdiction, it is an attempt to move past the literal and the symbolic into the deeper truth. You know what I'm saying?

Also, I love you all



Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!!!


I've been saying this forEVER....the basic tenet of any faith is perfect love and perfect trust --- two concepts in one. We all believe in harming NO ONE, yet there are always people who pop up and decide to hurt someone with their words. It's not wise, justified, or kind -- in other words, Commando ,STOP IT. If you want respect, give respect. Otherwise, we'll continue to treat you like a troll. Trolls are lower than whale shit, and that sits on the bottom of the ocean.

It's a song by A Perfect Circle.

YAY cookie cookie

Katzistania: How is ISlam based on Christianity? It's based on Judeaism, as is Christianity; all three were founded by Abraham (NOT jesus or muhammed, Abraham!). But, to be based off Christianity, it would have to say, Abraham started it, Jesus is the Messiah, and then Muhammed did even more. That's not how they see it

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!!!


I've been saying this forEVER....the basic tenet of any faith is perfect love and perfect trust --- two concepts in one. We all believe in harming NO ONE, yet there are always people who pop up and decide to hurt someone with their words. It's not wise, justified, or kind -- in other words, Commando ,STOP IT. If you want respect, give respect. Otherwise, we'll continue to treat you like a troll. Trolls are lower than whale shit, and that sits on the bottom of the ocean.

I'm tired of racist remarks about Trolls. My uncle Lenny was a Troll. He and my aunt Susan(Who was part Half-Orc) lived under a quaint bridge back in Northern New Jersey. Although they kept their place up nice and never bothered their neighbors - they had to put up with Troll jokes and other prejudice toward Humanoids that was really uncalled for.

I find it ironic that right after you say how you would never harm anyone, you proceed to make a racial judgment calling all Trolls lower than whale-shit. That really hurts.

I'm tired of racist remarks about Trolls. My uncle Lenny was a Troll. He and my aunt Susan(Who was part Half-Orc) lived under a quaint bridge back in Northern New Jersey. Although they kept their place up nice and never bothered their neighbors - they had to put up with Troll jokes and other prejudice toward Humanoids that was really uncalled for.

I find it ironic that right after you say how you would never harm anyone, you proceed to make a racial judgment calling all Trolls lower than whale-shit. That really hurts.


Smartasses are great, aren't they?

All I had to read was the first 2 questions, with comments, and I was already steaming at the narrowmindedness. We Wiccans do NOT condone Satan...in fact, most of us don't even believe in him.
And as for that Horned God bull that was spouted, it isn't the devil as other religons think...He is the consort of the great Mother Goddess. Hence the Lord and Lady.
Whats more, we never hurt others or make them do anything against their will.
"Eight words the Wiccan creed fulfil, if it harm none, do as ye will"

Please read up on Wiccan before you start slagging off at us about it.

Smartasses are great, aren't they?

Yes! I have a pants full!

Thanks for not being offended. I have to be more careful of late. :fluffle:

According to your beliefs it does nothing. However, according to the beliefs of a Wiccan, it may work just fine. Who are you to judge?

As long as we're talking talismans, what about the rosary? Isn't that a talisman of a sort? What about holy water? How does that really change/help/solve anything?

Holy water, Rosary, palm fronds, anointment oil, Body and Blood of Christ, the cross...any more?

I guess the Pope and the Madonna also count as idolitry.

Dang I had no idea it was this long already :eek:

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!!!

You're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome ^_^


Katzistania: How is ISlam based on Christianity? It's based on Judeaism, as is Christianity; all three were founded by Abraham (NOT jesus or muhammed, Abraham!). But, to be based off Christianity, it would have to say, Abraham started it, Jesus is the Messiah, and then Muhammed did even more. That's not how they see it

True, sorry for the slip up. My point is that Christanity was built off of Judeism, and Islam accepts the Jewish and Christain prophets (with Jesus as a prophet), and Muhammed as the last and greatest of Allah's prophets. Please correct me if I'm wrong but Islam is (extremely simplified) Judeism came first, then Christanity added Jesus and some other stuff, then Islam is that minus Jesus-is-the-son-of-God plus the stuff Allah told Muhammed.

Any Muslims can answer me: Do you belive all the stuff from the new testiment, like Revelations and all that?

Commando3'](I got most of this from www.tcrnews2.com btw. I just wanted to thank the site. I added a few lines I thought helped, as I do think Wicca could be a gateway to even worse occultism like Satanism, but I borrowed most.)



Hmmmmm.....A religion of Crusaders who tore through half the world centuries ago, destroying all in their path including women and children and has since attempted to inject it's self into every rational and secular government on the planet.

OR

A teaching based on nature, predominated by women who like to get naked in the woods, that seeks to unite people for the sole purpose of getting in touch with one's true self.

Which one is the true evil? Why the dancing naked chicks of course!

Can someone tell me why it is that Christian men are so deathly afraid of the vagina?

Hmmmmm.....A religion of Crusaders who tore through half the world centuries ago, destroying all in their path including women and children and has since attempted to inject it's self into every rational and secular government on the planet.

OR

A teaching based on nature, predominated by women who like to get naked in the woods, that seeks to unite people for the sole purpose of getting in touch with one's true self.

Which one is the true evil? Why the dancing naked chicks of course!

Can someone tell me why it is that Christian men are so deathly afraid of the vagina?


Because it leads them into SIN

I mean, naked girls are the cause of all adultry!!!

Can someone tell me why it is that Christian men are so deathly afraid of the vagina?

I am a Christain man and am most certainly not afraid of vagina.

Please stop with all the groose generalizations, because I could throw some out about Wicca, as well. They'd be equally as infatile and baseless, but the point is don't generalize if you don't want to be generalized in return.

And yes I realise this thread was started by a Christain generalizing with wrong info, but you don't need to respond in kind. Just tear apart his ignorance without sinking to his level.

EDIT: changed "with" to "without"

And yes I realise this thread was started by a Christain generalizing with wrong info,

Wow, you just nullified your own post. Right on.

I did not, in fact, nullify mt post. Please read on to the part about not responding in kind and fighting ignorence with knowledge instead of more ignorance

damn, "with" in my post before last should have been "without"
::edits sheepishly::

my point still stands