NationStates Jolt Archive

Now Biblically, the interpretation is that Abraham is the founder of the Jewish nation. This is emphesised in these quotes

I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.

Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.

And that the Arab nation decends from Ishmael, the son of Abraham and Hagar


The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. And he said, "Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?"
"I'm running away from my mistress Sarai," she answered.

Then the angel of the LORD told her, "Go back to your mistress and submit to her." The angel added, "I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count."

The angel of the LORD also said to her:
"You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the LORD has heard of your misery.

He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers."

Thats the Biblical account. I wanted to know what the Quran said about the origin of the Arab nation. Does it agree with the Bible that it was created through Ishmael? Or is there another series of events?

Bump (come on, anyone got answers)

Neo, for the past two weeks, I've been trying to put something together on Arabs and Islam, since you keep asking about it.

Give me a little more time. I'm having to read "books".

Give me a little more time. I'm having to read "books".

"Books" are where I heard this idea from. But I wanted an actual Muslim to answer it themselves, as the author of the book I read was a Christian writing about Islam from a Christian perspective.

...the author of the book I read was a Christian writing about Islam from a Christian perspective.and what is his name?

and what is his name?

Borrowed book from libery, now returned. But I had the idea told to me by many people at my chruch as well so I wanted to see if the idea came from fact or was an overhyped misinterpretation.

I'm not Muslim, but from what I understand, they do agree that Ishmael is the founder of the Arab people. However, they also say that Abraham took Ishmael up to sacrifice on the mountain, not Isaac.

...the author of the book I read was a Christian writing about Islam.and what is his name?
Borrowed book from libery, now returned. But I had the idea told to me by many people at my chruch as well so I wanted to see if the idea came from fact or was an overhyped misinterpretation.hmm...Dont you remember the name of the Author?

What about the name of the Book?

any searchable source?...anything at all?

Now Biblically, the interpretation is that Abraham is the founder of the Jewish nation. This is emphesised in these quotes

And that the Arab nation decends from Ishmael, the son of Abraham and Hagar

Thats the Biblical account. I wanted to know what the Quran said about the origin of the Arab nation. Does it agree with the Bible that it was created through Ishmael? Or is there another series of events?What Arab nation? Shemites have been living in the region long before Abraham even lived (around 1800BCE).
And btw is Abraham not the founder of the Jewish nation. Since monotheism and the belief therein only started with the (alleged) events of the Exodus (around 1447BCE) and the teachings of Moses and his successors, the Israelite "nation" also started right there (being very distinct from the Hebrews that have also come into the Levant but have not been in Egypt) and not any earlier.

Thats the Biblical account. I wanted to know what the Quran said about the origin of the Arab nation. Does it agree with the Bible that it was created through Ishmael? Or is there another series of events?

Yep. Qur'an confirms Arabic descendency through Ishmael.

There is some speculation concerning Abraham's near sacrifice of Isaac stating that it may have been Ishmael who was to be the intended sacrifice. Genesis 22:2 has the Almighty telling Abraham to sacrifice his "only son" and, since he was the second son, at no time was Isaac Abraham's only son.

Both bloodlines, however, regardless of that little tidbit, were to become great nations and so they have.

And btw is Abraham not the founder of the Jewish nation. Since monotheism and the belief therein only started with the (alleged) events of the Exodus (around 1447BCE) and the teachings of Moses and his successors, the Israelite "nation" also started right there (being very distinct from the Hebrews that have also come into the Levant but have not been in Egypt) and not any earlier.

Abraham, who was neither Christian nor Jew, started monotheism when he declared that anything subject to dissappearance could not be worthy of worship. It was his grandson, Jacob (Israel), who fathered the Jewish people.

It started with the whole Jacob/Esau quagmire where Jacob, in a delicious move of deception, took Abraham's innermost blessing from his older brother. (Genesis 27) Good story.

Why would Abraham believe in anything different than everybody around him? And prior to the 10th century BCE, when the very first biblical writings appeared (Solomon's time or later, which is 480 years after the Exodus and over 750 years after Abraham), there existed no worship of YHWH (as the monotheistic re-interpretation of Shemitic Yah) anywhere in the region.
Although the Israelites are the (alleged) offspring of Jacob, Jacob himself was a common Hebrew, just as his fathers who have come out of Mesopotamia. Only the sojourn in Egypt of a number of Hebrews turned them into a distinct entity with a common history and heritage. And only when these highly egyptianized Hebrews left Egypt they became something like a "nation", especially in their self-definition against those who they attacked in their bloody conquest of Canaan.