NationStates Jolt Archive

I took my daughters to Boston Pizza last night. It was packed, and it was noisy, and I find that Boston Pizza is usually pretty kid friendly. So, we're eating, and the girls (3 and 1) are amusing themselves, and the three year old is laughing a bit loudly watching the bubbles form as she stirred her 7-Up. The woman at the next table kept turning and giving her dirty looks (she never looked at me directly, just at my daughter), so I assume she thought my daughter was being too loud. With the noise level in that restaurant, I guess only she could pick out my daughter's voice amid the hum.

Well, the whole meal went like this. My girls were pretty well-behaved, not running around, not screaming and crying. The three year old just giggled now and again, and everytime she did it, this woman glared. I got really pissed off, and when we were done, I picked up the baby, led the other by the hand and stopped at this woman's table (she was with three other people).

I said, "Was my daughter bothering you?"

She finally looked at me, "No. Well, she was pretty loud."

"So is everyone here tonight. Shooting her dirty looks was going to change that?"

She flushed and said nothing.

I said, "The next time you want a kid-free meal, perhaps this isn't the place to come?" I swept my arm around to include all the other kids in the restaurant, "And you know, there is a lounge side. Maybe you should go there so you can avoid trying to bully children into remaining silent."

No one at the table said anything, and we left. I still feel though that I didn't really get across my outrage at her attitude, but oh well...

Cut and pasted from the "I hate kids" thread.

Why are so many people so vocally anti-kid? Is it because kids are the one group that don't get to stand up for themselves, or have a voice, or cry discrimination that we feel free to lash out at them? We can't pick on people because of the colour of their skin, we can't pick on people because of their religion, or their gender, or their sexuality, but WAIT!!!! Kids are fair game! Kids can't sue, and probably won't go to a human rights tribunal, so let's call them all the horrible names we can think of just to get our own self-hatred off our chests! :rolleyes:

While I take your point, (for once!) I actually disagree. My dislike of children largely stems from the inability of most of them to speak clearly rather than shout or scream, their frequent misbehaviour despite being told otherwise and the fact that many I have met have a complete lack of respect for anyone. I accept that this does not apply to all, but I seem to have been unlucky with my dealings with them. I also accept that parents are often at fault as well, but the problems are manifested in the children themselves. (Most) adults, regardless of sex, sexual orientation, religion, race etc do not behave in the (in my opinion, annoying) manner that children do.

I don't begrudge other people having or liking children at all. I'd just rather not have any of my own.

One of the thing that bothers me the most about people who are anti-children, and about many parents themselves is the general lack of understanding of developmental stages. At different ages, children are capable of different things, and you can't rush that. You can't expect a baby to be able to control its nervous system and stop itself from crying. You can't expect a two year old to have a good understanding of other people's feelings. We don't want our kids to be little adults (so we say), but we then freak out when a child can't understand the "need" to tidy his or her room.

OF COURSE children don't behave like adults. They AREN'T adults. They don't have the same priorities as us (not to say our priorities are particularly superior, or even desireable).

A kid is screaming in a supermarket. Why is that? Are her parents lazy idiots who didn't teach her to be quiet? Or is this child simply sick of being dragged around, not being allowed to stop and explore anything that catches her interest, being completely ignored while mommy and daddy chat about what to have for dinner, and losing all feeling in her arms while she holds hands with her parents so she doesn't get lost? We don't treat children like adults, but we want them to be like us? We don't pay attention to their needs....we try to mould them to OUR needs. Would you stop in a mall and scold your husband for trying to go into a store that caught his eye? Would you tell your mother to go clean her room or there'd be no desert? Would you tell your boss to stop yelling or he'd be getting a time out?

Half the time, adults aren't clear or consistant in their expectations of children's behaviour. Christ, we can't even understand each other half the time...how is a child with little experience in reading body language and so on going to do that? Grow up, don't grow up, sleep, get up, eat this, don't eat that, be quiet, speak up, look at me, don't look at me like that, hurry up, slow down, do this, don't do that...it's a wonder they don't all grow up to be psychopaths!

Have a little sympathy folks. Kids adapt to incredibly stressful situations often better than adults are able to. Give them some credit...they are trying as hard as their developmental levels allow them too. They aren't little adults who are misbehaving. They are not hard wired the same as us...those connections are still being made in their brains and nervous systems. Understand that, and understand that your expectations for them need to match what they can actually do, and you save yourself AND THEM a lot of stress.

I agree that if you go somewhere that there are bound to be kids, that you should be prepared to put up with the usual obnoxious kid behavior.

Small children are both the most amusing and most annoying people to be around.

Cut and pasted from the "I hate kids" thread.
Those were really good, Sinuhue. I remember with considerable shame now all the times when I was abrupt with my own children because I expected them to be "little adults." I was never mean to them, but when you're only 27 or so yourself and your kids start acting like kids, it's often difficult to remember just how little they really are. Fortunately, most of them are very resilient and usually recover from our short-sightedness.

Yay! Kids!

:eek: <-- Drunk one.
I would imagine you were being sarcastic. I hope so. :p

I am glad that you had the guts to stick up for your children, Sinuhue.
Most of us (me anyways) suffer in silence or mutter under our breath about nasty people.

I personally love to hear children giggle. :D

BTW, I completely agree with some of your previous posts.
Children for the most part are what their parents or guardians make them.
If you have a loving and strict parents, you should turn out pretty decent.
It's the cruel, uncaring, unloving, unsupervising, etc ones that ruin children.

At work, i've been thrown up on (well, almost, but I had to clean it up...with a paper towel.), sneezed on, had water thrown at me, and coughed on by little kids.

And I only work in a supermarket :(

But hey, I'm sure they're great when they're yours.

I understand that people with no kids don't have the same tolerance levels as those of us who do. The sound of my girls yelling or screaming while they play doesn't bother me anymore, but when I have friends over, I can see them wincing. I get that. So I don't take my kids to a lot of places I would like to go. I don't take them to libraries, (unless there is a kid-friendly activity going on), I don't take them to the movie theatre (unless there is a children's viewing room, a truly wonderful place that separates us from the rest of the crowd), and I don't take them to fancy restaurants. But neither do I think my children should be confined to their bedrooms until they reach 18. How are they supposed to learn how to act in public if I never take them out? Supermarkets, certain stores, and certain restaurants are fair game.

We went to a book store one day, and my daughter ran around one aisle, giggling. My husband went to get her. A woman, sitting in a chair, reading a book SHE HADN'T PAID FOR, I might add, angrily shushed my daughter and muttered something at her. My husband saw this and asked her, "What was that?" The woman blushed, looked down and mumbled, "nothing". Yeah, that's right...you can say it to a kid that is too young to tell her parents, but you won't repeat it to them? Go to a library if you want quiet. Or shush me if I talk to loud and be prepared to deal with my response.

While I don't particularly care for children, my main reason is thus: I don't feel I'm mature enough to have the care of another human being placed on my shoulders. Fairly responsible, I may be, but still, the growth and development of a child is an important thing. I've seen other people my age who have multiple children already, and the financial responsibility alone is staggering.

At work, i've been (almost) thrown up on, sneezed on, had water thrown at me, and coughed on by little kids.

And I only work in a supermarket :(
Get yourself one of those 250,000 volt stun guns they sell in the back of soldier of fortune magazine. Then when a kid sneezes on you zap the diseased little mucus bag. It leaves no marks. Just make sure you do it when the parents aren't looking.

I am the king of bad advice. Please don't take me seriously.

At work, i've been thrown up on (well, almost, but I had to clean it up...with a paper towel.), sneezed on, had water thrown at me, and coughed on by little kids.

And I only work in a supermarket :(

But hey, I'm sure they're great when they're yours.
Hey, I've had all those things happen to me too...by adults as well as children. Children at least don't have the control yet to stop themselves...there is no such excuse for the adults.

Get yourself one of those 250,000 volt stun guns they sell in the back of soldier of fortune magazine. Then when a kid sneezes on you zap the diseased little mucus bag. It leaves no marks. Just make sure you do it when the parents aren't looking.

I am the king of bad advice. Please don't take me seriously.

Sod that. I'll just walk around to the nearest playground and cough on the little kids. :p

Small children are both the most amusing and most annoying people to be around.

This also applies to stoned/dunk people.... Now if only we could combine the two.... :eek: :eek:

This whole kids crap is getting old.

Hey, I've had all those things happen to me too...by adults as well as children. Children at least don't have the control yet to stop themselves...there is no such excuse for the adults.
Yeah, I know. Doesn't make it any less annoying though!

Yay, cleaning up chunky vomit while customers pile up and make disgusted faces!

Ah well. Of course, I only notice the badly behaved kids (Particulary the ones who are all "MUM! YOURE STUPID. YOURE A F***ING BITCH!" I kid you not.) :p

This whole kids crap is getting old.
*shows Fass the door*...

Ah well. Of course, I only notice the badly behaved kids. :p
That's a good thing to realise!

I took my daughters to Boston Pizza last night. It was packed, and it was noisy, and I find that Boston Pizza is usually pretty kid friendly. So, we're eating, and the girls (3 and 1) are amusing themselves, and the three year old is laughing a bit loudly watching the bubbles form as she stirred her 7-Up. The woman at the next table kept turning and giving her dirty looks (she never looked at me directly, just at my daughter), so I assume she thought my daughter was being too loud. With the noise level in that restaurant, I guess only she could pick out my daughter's voice amid the hum.

Well, the whole meal went like this. My girls were pretty well-behaved, not running around, not screaming and crying. The three year old just giggled now and again, and everytime she did it, this woman glared. I got really pissed off, and when we were done, I picked up the baby, led the other by the hand and stopped at this woman's table (she was with three other people).

I said, "Was my daughter bothering you?"

She finally looked at me, "No. Well, she was pretty loud."

"So is everyone here tonight. Shooting her dirty looks was going to change that?"

She flushed and said nothing.

I said, "The next time you want a kid-free meal, perhaps this isn't the place to come?" I swept my arm around to include all the other kids in the restaurant, "And you know, there is a lounge side. Maybe you should go there so you can avoid trying to bully children into remaining silent."

No one at the table said anything, and we left. I still feel though that I didn't really get across my outrage at her attitude, but oh well...

I can't say as I can find anything wrong with this, but I will laugh my balls off if you're one of those anti-smoking nazis who says I can't smoke in a bar. It's the same principle, really; "If you want a smoke-free meal perhaps this isn't the place to come?"

I can't say as I can find anything wrong with this, but I will laugh my balls off if you're one of those anti-smoking nazis who says I can't smoke in a bar. It's the same principle, really; "If you want a smoke-free meal perhaps this isn't the place to come?"
not really a great comparison, children don't give you cancer

*shows Fass the door*...

*shows Sinuhue how to reuse her old thread on the subject*

not really a great comparison, children don't give you cancer
Source please.

I suppose it's all in the situation, too. Sinuhue's example of adults in a kid-friendly restaurant is spot-on. In no way, shape or form should those kids have been glared at for being who they are in a place where that's okay if not encouraged. As long as they aren't dashing about, throwing things or being destructive, children being loud is like the sky being blue -- it's natural, and if you listen, it can be lovely, too.

Likewise, kid-neutral places like supermarkets seem to be places were anit-kid aggravation sprouts up a lot. Again, I'd err on the side of realizing that children are what they are -- developing people. Besides, are you expecting some kind of blissful, quiet escape from the hectic pace of life inside a supermarket? If you are, then the problem is yours, not the child's. Yes, bad or lax parenting can produce an unruly child, but to imagine that all children are going to be little saintlets in a place where it's bright, noisy, and usually full of other people is just plain unreasonable.

On the flip side, though, if you bring a screaming or unruly child into, say a movie theater, library, fine dining establishment, or some other place where quiet is something of an expectation, then the fault is again not the child's, but the parent's. I don't want to hear some excuse about not being able to find a sitter (or worse yet, not wanting to leave your child with a sitter or relative) -- if you can't find an acceptable person to mind your child, then you don't get to go to the movie, meal, or library. It is that simple. You have a small, budding life to deal with! While that shouldn't make you an abject prisoner, it should force you to plan for events where the child's behavior will not be appreciated. Utter sponaneity is largely not possible until you have a reliable and source of child care or the child is old enough to be left alone (a subject for an entirely different debate). Your responsibility does not end at feeding and changing. Parents here likely know this, but I'm saying it to get the focus off the kids (and the unconscionable use of the word "hate" in their direction).

So lay off the kids and place the focus where it belongs -- on their creators.

I can't say as I can find anything wrong with this, but I will laugh my balls off if you're one of those anti-smoking nazis who says I can't smoke in a bar. It's the same principle, really; "If you want a smoke-free meal perhaps this isn't the place to come?"
Where I live, it's illegal to smoke in bars.

Kids that are 8-11 really bother me. I'm not sure why. Any younger than that they're really sweet though.

not really a great comparison, children don't give you cancer

We'll have to study the comparative effects of smoking tobacco to smoking children, methinks.

Source please.
:rolleyes:

not really a great comparison, children don't give you cancer
Well, there's no provable link anyway.... :D

We'll have to study the comparative effects of smoking tobacco to smoking children, methinks.


children only smoke well if you let them burn for several minutes

Yuhuh. I'm 18 so don't have kids of my own (yet), but do alot of babysitting and do what is basically the English equivalent of being a camp counseller - looking after 6 kids 23 hours a day for 2 weeks on camp. We go to kid-friendly places (like Explore@Bristol, Longleat, Crealey etc - if you don't know what they are, just trust me; they're there for kids), but still you get adults with an attitude problem. And it's not even that they're misbehaving or anything, it's just that it's a crowd of kids with a teenager - an excuse to be bitchy.
While I'm on it, what is with the attitude problem towards teenagers? Particularly from the elderly (sorry, generalisation, but this is just my experience). I went out for lunch with my mum the other day to a restaurant, and we were sat on the next table to an elderly woman. She glared at me when I sat down, I smiled at her like "hi", and she glared again, held up her newspaper between me and her and muttered something. Then a waitress about my age came to clear up her table, and asked if everything was alright. She ignored her - totally ignored her, even though it was obvious she had heard. Okay, so some teenagers suck. But so do some adults. I don't think anyone should be entirely judged just because a minority in that group are dickheads.

I can't say as I can find anything wrong with this, but I will laugh my balls off if you're one of those anti-smoking nazis who says I can't smoke in a bar. It's the same principle, really; "If you want a smoke-free meal perhaps this isn't the place to come?"
Oh, I'm anti-smoking alright, but I'm not a *insert cause here* Nazi. I'd like it if there were some non-smoking bars, and I'd frequent them often, but oh well. I don't go to the smoking ones because I don't like coming home feeling like I just inhaled a pack and a half in three hours.

And please don't laugh your balls off...it might be difficult to reattach them!

children only smoke well if you let them burn for several minutes

Damn. Maybe we could grind them into a fine powder first? :eek:

*shows Sinuhue how to reuse her old thread on the subject*

Must you be so Fassinine?

I understand that people with no kids don't have the same tolerance levels as those of us who do. The sound of my girls yelling or screaming while they play doesn't bother me anymore, but when I have friends over, I can see them wincing. I get that. So I don't take my kids to a lot of places I would like to go. I don't take them to libraries, (unless there is a kid-friendly activity going on), I don't take them to the movie theatre (unless there is a children's viewing room, a truly wonderful place that separates us from the rest of the crowd), and I don't take them to fancy restaurants. But neither do I think my children should be confined to their bedrooms until they reach 18. How are they supposed to learn how to act in public if I never take them out? Supermarkets, certain stores, and certain restaurants are fair game.

We went to a book store one day, and my daughter ran around one aisle, giggling. My husband went to get her. A woman, sitting in a chair, reading a book SHE HADN'T PAID FOR, I might add, angrily shushed my daughter and muttered something at her. My husband saw this and asked her, "What was that?" The woman blushed, looked down and mumbled, "nothing". Yeah, that's right...you can say it to a kid that is too young to tell her parents, but you won't repeat it to them? Go to a library if you want quiet. Or shush me if I talk to loud and be prepared to deal with my response.


It sounds like you were out in a family type place. People should expect families there and the noise and commotion that can be associated with them. My kids are most often well behaved and well adjusted, but they can get noisy from time to time.
We were in a family buffet place-clearly not the place for a childless couple to expect a quiet and reserved dinner. My kids and my friends kids were happy to be together and just having a good time. A nearby couple were so clearly offended by the kids going back and forth to the buffet and laughing. They were shooting their dirty looks at the kids. returning from the mens room, my son hurried back ahead of me to the table and as he passed their table these people both snorted and shook their heads. Now I come along and leaned over, my hands on the edge of their table, looked the guy in the eye and said quietly through my teeth-"You got a fucking problem...besides that shirt?" He pretended not to know what I was talking about, horrified that I caught him. I considered picking a crab leg off his plate and eating it while I awaited his answer, but decided not to up the ante and returned to my table. I think they skipped on the bill to leave. I'm usually more reserved.

Where I live, it's illegal to smoke in bars.
Where is that? I'd love to visit...

Kids that are 8-11 really bother me. I'm not sure why. Any younger than that they're really sweet though.
In Spanish, they call this age (and into the teen years) La Edad de Pavo...the turkey age...because kids start getting all hormonal and running around like confused turkeys :D

Oh, I'm anti-smoking alright, but I'm not a *insert cause here* Nazi. I'd like it if there were some non-smoking bars, and I'd frequent them often, but oh well. I don't go to the smoking ones because I don't like coming home feeling like I just inhaled a pack and a half in three hours.

And please don't laugh your balls off...it might be difficult to reattach them!

Heh.. fair enough. My only problem with it is when people pass laws saying you can't smoke in any bar, as opposed to letting the proprietor decide for himself. To me its less of a health issue and more of a "government telling the private sector what to do" issue.

Oh, and in response to:

not really a great comparison, children don't give you cancer

If you honestly think that you'll get cancer from eating out once or twice a week in a place where people smoke cigarettes some 10-20 yards away, you need to have your head examined. Try living in LA and tell me that's any better than sitting in a smoky bar. If we wanted to outlaw everything that was bad for you, we could just go ahead and shut down all social interaction altogether.

Must you be so Fassinine?

The term is "Fassist", honey.

Where is that? I'd love to visit...


In Spanish, they call this age (and into the teen years) La Edad de Pavo...the turkey age...because kids start getting all hormonal and running around like confused turkeys :D
lol, confused turkeys? how very odd

*snip*
Like every group, teenagers get a bad rep from the few extreme cases of teengage jerks. What drives me nuts is that many adults see a kid with 'weird' hair, clothes and piercings and automatically think the kid is a punk. Teens CAN be a royal pain in the ass, but again, you have to realise that they are going through a pretty crazy stage too...

If you can put up with the foibles of senior citizens, you can put up with kids and teens.

If you can't? Isolation might be the answer.

Must you be so Fassinine?
I just learned a new, and wonderful word! YAY!

I can't say as I can find anything wrong with this, but I will laugh my balls off if you're one of those anti-smoking nazis who says I can't smoke in a bar. It's the same principle, really; "If you want a smoke-free meal perhaps this isn't the place to come?"even if i disagree with Sinuhue exagerated protectionism...I must say that Children and parents are to be supported for the common-good... (ex. mothers should have rest areas for breast-feeding in most public places)...Yes even people who does not have children must pay to support the children..

not the case for tobbacco addiction, I dont want the Gov to support that, any smoke free legislation is good for the common-good (the fact that they may get cancer does not concern me...their body if they wanna waste it)

It sounds like you were out in a family type place. People should expect families there and the noise and commotion that can be associated with them. My kids are most often well behaved and well adjusted, but they can get noisy from time to time.
We were in a family buffet place-clearly not the place for a childless couple to expect a quiet and reserved dinner. My kids and my friends kids were happy to be together and just having a good time. A nearby couple were so clearly offended by the kids going back and forth to the buffet and laughing. They were shooting their dirty looks at the kids. returning from the mens room, my son hurried back ahead of me to the table and as he passed their table these people both snorted and shook their heads. Now I come along and leaned over, my hands on the edge of their table, looked the guy in the eye and said quietly through my teeth-"You got a fucking problem...besides that shirt?" He pretended not to know what I was talking about, horrified that I caught him. I considered picking a crab leg off his plate and eating it while I awaited his answer, but decided not to up the ante and returned to my table. I think they skipped on the bill to leave. I'm usually more reserved.
:D

Again...people feel free to treat kids disrespectfully, but smarten up quick when an adult catches them at it...

Like every group, teenagers get a bad rep from the few extreme cases of teengage jerks. What drives me nuts is that many adults see a kid with 'weird' hair, clothes and piercings and automatically think the kid is a punk. Teens CAN be a royal pain in the ass, but again, you have to realise that they are going through a pretty crazy stage too...

If you can put up with the foibles of senior citizens, you can put up with kids and teens.

If you can't? Isolation might be the answer.
Yup, hell, I've even been judged for my nose stud - my only facial piercing, all my others are on my ears. I'm sure most people that judge teens like that did something of that nature when they were our age. They reeeeally need to get over themselves. Several of my friends are gothic in their clothing tastes, and the treatment they get sometimes is so out of order.
Hope you'll still defend your kids when they get to the weird stage :D

Heh.. fair enough. My only problem with it is when people pass laws saying you can't smoke in any bar, as opposed to letting the proprietor decide for himself. To me its less of a health issue and more of a "government telling the private sector what to do" issue.

Oh, and in response to:



If you honestly think that you'll get cancer from eating out once or twice a week in a place where people smoke cigarettes some 10-20 yards away, you need to have your head examined. Try living in LA and tell me that's any better than sitting in a smoky bar. If we wanted to outlaw everything that was bad for you, we could just go ahead and shut down all social interaction altogether.
/hijack

If you honestly think that you'll get cancer from eating out once or twice a week in a place where people smoke cigarettes some 10-20 yards away, you need to have your head examined. Try living in LA and tell me that's any better than sitting in a smoky bar. If we wanted to outlaw everything that was bad for you, we could just go ahead and shut down all social interaction altogether.
80% of cigarette smoke is breathed in by passive smokers, and it isn't just once or twice a week, it's everywhere you go, shops, restaurants, bars, and they can have their silly no smoking areas but it doesn't make a whole load of difference. My mum used to be paranoid cause everytime i went on a night out i'd come home with a terrible hacking cough and my clothes and hair stinking of smoke

Here's another idea -- do all of you kid-haters realize that, to some degree, you actually have some control over this situation? Aside from leaving or choosing a smarter place to eat, that is. How many of you have ever noticed the very well-behaved children? And if you do, did you ever just walk by and compliment the child and parent(s)? It's easy for me as a teacher, but I tell you, nothing reinforces good behavior and HELPS a parent promote it more than a complete stranger noticing when good behavior is being exhibited.

Conversely, it shows remarkable and rare restraint, composure and civility if you can address the problem of a child acting out or a parent making an unwise choice of where to bring a toddler if you choose to mention it politely as opposed to glaring snidely. In fact, I think a polite response overall would go a long way toward easing the rage and incivility about which everyone seems to complain. You've absolutely no proof that the person who cut you off in traffic did so expressly to spite you. Likewise, I'm certain no parent brings their child to a place they shouldn't have in an effort to discomfit everyone around them. Despite the best laid plans, somethimes it has to be done. And while those so forced may not show the proper contrition when they do, it's no wonder that they get defensive if they're confronted with someone who approaches from the side of hatred or anger.

We're all human, remember?

lol, confused turkeys? how very odd
Just picture two teen girls talking to each other about breaking up with their boyfriends, but substitute their words for turkey gobbles, and you'll see the humour:)

Just picture two teen girls talking to each other about breaking up with their boyfriends, but substitute their words for turkey gobbles, and you'll see the humour:)
wow, it actually does make sense

even I must say that Children and parents are to be supported for the common-good... (ex. mothers should have rest areas for breast-feeding in most public places)...
Let me tell you, I am SO thankful for places that have bathrooms with changing tables, a chair in the handicapped washroom for breastfeeding, or even better, FAMILY bathrooms that usually have a stall just for mothers (or fathers) with babies. Some department stores also have a quiet room for breastfeeding, changing, feeding...WHATEVER, and it is really quite fantastic. Parenting is damn hard, and sometimes you just have to take the kids out while you run errands. Small considerations like this go a long way to making the experience less stressful.

It makes me laugh though how prudish people are about women breast-feeing in public, like we pull our boobs out and stuff them in our babies mouths then sit there, bare-chested for the next twenty minutes. Christ...the baby's head pretty much hides an nipple action...GET OVER IT! THE DAMN KID IS EATING!

Yup, hell, I've even been judged for my nose stud - my only facial piercing, all my others are on my ears. I'm sure most people that judge teens like that did something of that nature when they were our age. They reeeeally need to get over themselves. Several of my friends are gothic in their clothing tastes, and the treatment they get sometimes is so out of order.
Hope you'll still defend your kids when they get to the weird stage :D
I'm not looking forward to it...but in some ways I am. Damn rights I'll support them (and kick their asses when they need it:))! I really feel bad for teens and how people treat them (then again, some of them sure take advantage of being teens and act pretty badly in public). I remember making a big deal out of a local store that always had a security guard following teens around...I went in and confronted the manager about it. More adults were ripping this place off than kids, but no one ever followed the adults around and made them feel unwelcome...

dude, kids are cool and cute as long as they arn't mine. i'm irresponsible so i don't want kids. i'm aware that i can't take care of them. i wish people who are irresponsible like me wouldn't have kids and would learn to use birth control. i like the idea of people having to have a license to have kids. it's a big responsibilty that shouldn't be taken lightly or happen by accident. it's all in the parents. so if your kid is that bratty screaming inhuman being lying on the store floor, would you kindly take it outside, lock it in the car, or spank it. Thank you.

it's all in the parents. so if your kid is that bratty screaming inhuman being lying on the store floor, would you kindly take it outside, lock it in the car, or spank it. Thank you.
Well, we can't lock them in the car by themselves (one of my parent's favourite punishments if we acted up in a restaurant), but leaving is usually the best option when they get too out of control. It's also awfully embarrassing when your kid just loses it...but you have to think about why they are so upset. Don't take your kid to the supermarket when they're hungry, then deny them a chocolate bar. Don't drag them around and ignore them while you shop. Involve them, and let them sometimes put silly stuff in the cart...you can always put it back when they aren't looking. If they are tired, cranky, or really just need some attention from you, make the trip quick, and get home. When all else fails, forget the groceries and leave. Don't do it because some people will make snide comments...do it because your kids need you.

sinuhue, you've been watch supernanny haven't you? see, this is an example of a person who should have a parent. Unlike the person who lets their kid kick the seat in front of them through the whole flight. Just outta curiousity, what's wrong with locking them in the car by themselves?

...It makes me laugh though how prudish people are about women breast-feeing in public, I remember I saw once at a MacDonald a couple of Granmas givin "the looks" to a Young Mom breastfeeding...but she would not pay them attention...they finally complained to the manager...

I wnt there prepared to defend the breastfeeding mom...but it was not necesary because the manager refused to take action and told the granmas that McDonald was a Pro-Family environement.

...Well, the whole meal went like this. My girls were pretty well-behaved, not running around, not screaming and crying. The three year old just giggled now and again, and everytime she did it, this woman glared. I got really pissed off, and when we were done, I picked up the baby, led the other by the hand and stopped at this woman's table (she was with three other people).

I said, "Was my daughter bothering you?"

She finally looked at me, "No. Well, she was pretty loud."

"So is everyone here tonight. Shooting her dirty looks was going to change that?"

She flushed and said nothing.

I said, "The next time you want a kid-free meal, perhaps this isn't the place to come?" I swept my arm around to include all the other kids in the restaurant, "And you know, there is a lounge side. Maybe you should go there so you can avoid trying to bully children into remaining silent."

No one at the table said anything, and we left. I still feel though that I didn't really get across my outrage at her attitude, but oh well...

Good on you to point out her rudeness to this individual. I am not a huge fan of kids but I can appreciate the fact that there is a difference between loud mouth little gits (e.g. "I WANT IT NOW!!!" *has a tantrum*) and children who are just having fun. (e.g. like giggling at the bubbles in a fizzy drink.)

The fact that she flushed and said nothing, as well as the rest of the table becoming silent, suggests to me that you got your point accross in my opinion. Unfortunately there will always be people who will enter a specific environment and then expect the atmosphere to change to suit their needs.

How do you reprimand a misbehaving kid when you're, say, grocery shopping, and he/she demands the latest marshmallow packed, totally unhealthy breakfast cereal and screams the place down until they get it?

(I don't have kids, yet, and like kids, want one or two at sme point, so I'm looking more for advice than trying to point out the bad behaviour of some kids)

Just outta curiousity, what's wrong with locking them in the car by themselves?

Over here, parents can go to jail for it, I believe. During a hot day, you wouldn't want to be locked in a hot car in direct sunlight with no water, would you? Babies have died from it...

How do you reprimand a misbehaving kid when you're, say, grocery shopping, and he/she demands the latest marshmallow packed, totally unhealthy breakfast cereal and screams the place down until they get.
Depends in what country you are.

How do you reprimand a misbehaving kid when you're, say, grocery shopping, and he/she demands the latest marshmallow packed, totally unhealthy breakfast cereal and screams the place down until they get it?

(I don't have kids, yet, and like kids, want one or two at sme point, so I'm looking more for advice than trying to point out the bad behaviour of some kids)
my mum always used to give me a little smack on the bum before i got to the screaming the place down stage and it always worked

How do you reprimand a misbehaving kid when you're, say, grocery shopping, and he/she demands the latest marshmallow packed, totally unhealthy breakfast cereal and screams the place down until they get it?

(I don't have kids, yet, and like kids, want one or two at sme point, so I'm looking more for advice than trying to point out the bad behaviour of some kids)

"Fine, you don't get that chocolate I was going to surprise you with, then..."

Then again, i'm sadistic like that :p

One of my earliest memories is of a guy tripping over me in line for Orange Julius at the Seattle Science Center, he didn't fall over, just kind of kicked me and stumbled, and he turned around and started yelling at me. My petite little mom got right up in his face and silenced him with her fervor. Yah mom! I agree with not rebuking the kid unless it's your own. Talk to the parents if the kids are 'that' bad!

Source please.

Ok, prove that they do.

Cancer no. Alcoholism YES! ;)

Depends in what country you are.

Ireland?

US?

God only knows where my husbands profession will take us next, hopefully home though...

Ok, prove that they do.

Cancer no. Alcoholism YES! ;)
My grandmother had 5 kids. She got skin cancer, and died from liver cancer.
My uncle had two kids. He died from pancreatic cancer.
Another of my uncles, and his wife, had 7 kids. Uncle died of cancer, Aunt survived cancer.

We must ban children as an important step to stamping out cancer.

How do you reprimand a misbehaving kid when you're, say, grocery shopping, and he/she demands the latest marshmallow packed, totally unhealthy breakfast cereal and screams the place down until they get it?

(I don't have kids, yet, and like kids, want one or two at sme point, so I'm looking more for advice than trying to point out the bad behaviour of some kids)
Kids are tough to deal with. And sometimes they just don't understand why they can't have certain things. Sometimes, as a parent, you have to say, "Because I said so" and stick with it. Screaming and yelling is a behaviour. If you make it clear what the consequences of such behaviour will be (leaving the store perhaps, if they can think further ahead, not getting to come next time) it doesn't matter the reason they are screaming and crying. You aren't disciplining them for wanting marshmallows. Then again, choose your battles. If the kid tosses the marshmallows into the cart, and you really don't want them, unobtrusively hand them to the check out person and tell them you don't want them. If the kid clutches it to their chest and refuses to budge, are you REALLY that anti-marshmallow? Don't put up with bad behaviour...but if they really, really want it, use it as a reward. Say...if you behave, and if you eat all your dinner without a fight, you can have a marshmallow for desert, okay?

How do you reprimand a misbehaving kid when you're, say, grocery shopping, and he/she demands the latest marshmallow packed, totally unhealthy breakfast cereal and screams the place down until they get it?

(I don't have kids, yet, and like kids, want one or two at sme point, so I'm looking more for advice than trying to point out the bad behaviour of some kids)

Apparently, just ignoring their tantrums/demands or whatever teaches them that screaming the place down won't get them anything. I saw this on a documentary where the parents kept giving in to the little sh*t everythime she SCREAMED for an icecream or a toy or whatnot. I was quite surprised to learn that after a while, the child's behaviour actually improved. The parents were taught to make a fuss whenever their child was good, and to simply ignore them when they were bad.

Have any parents tried this approach? I will add for the record that I am not a parent and don't intend to be for a VERY long time! :)

Over here, parents can go to jail for it, I believe. During a hot day, you wouldn't want to be locked in a hot car in direct sunlight with no water, would you? Babies have died from it...
No only that...but kids can quite easily figure out how to unlock the door and run off...or be tempted out by a stranger...imagine the horror of putting your kid in there for a time out and coming back to find them gone...*shudders*

my mum always used to give me a little smack on the bum before i got to the screaming the place down stage and it always worked

The smacking never helped when we were kids and tore strips out of each other. I've lost a lot of feeling in my back side, we were threatened with the wooden spoon, never worked for long...

I think the withholding method is better, we were smacked, never worked, my baby sister was sent to her room on her own, no TV, no treat after dinner, I've never come across a more well behaved kid in my life!

God only knows where my husbands profession will take us next, hopefully home though...You will find that if your husbands profession takes you to: US, Canada, Scandinavia...Children are way less likely to respect their parents.

Ireland is a country I dont know enough...

My grandmother had 5 kids. She got skin cancer, and died from liver cancer.
My uncle had two kids. He died from pancreatic cancer.
Another of my uncles, and his wife, had 7 kids. Uncle died of cancer, Aunt survived cancer.

We must ban children as an important step to stamping out cancer.
we're not talking about having kids giving you cancer, we're talking about hearling one giggle

I remember I saw once at a MacDonald a couple of Granmas givin "the looks" to a Young Mom breastfeeding...but she would not pay them attention...they finally complained to the manager...

I wnt there prepared to defend the breastfeeding mom...but it was not necesary because the manager refused to take action and told the granmas that McDonald was a Pro-Family environement.


The women I have noticed breast feeding in public are usually very discreet about it. They generally are prepared with a shirt and bra that allows easy access and a receiveing blanket of some type to cover them as well. I dont miss anything usually, but wonder how many moms have escaped my attention. So-no-Its not like its a whole spectacle. I never considered it obscene-a baby is eating and breast feeding is not some radical new thing to outrage people. Its perfectly acceptable.
I've seen people pissing on the side of the highway though, with no effort toward concealing what they're doing.

my mum always used to give me a little smack on the bum before i got to the screaming the place down stage and it always worked
My three year old is a real terror...she's got more attitude in her pinky than six kids combined, but let me tell you, I do a three second count. I do it like this,

Uno (yeah, I do it in Spanish)
*tell her what behaviour I want her to stop, or what will happen if she doesn't do something*
Dos....
*repeat the behaviour to stop, or what will happen (like, I'm taking away your chocolate bar)*

She always starts moving on two, and I rarely reach three. If I do reach three, she knows its a 'tan tan en el poto'...a smack on the butt. My husband has started using this method too, and it's great...because we never change it or don't follow through. That doesn't mean she doesn't act up five minutes later...and sometimes I have to count a lot...but when she is somewhere with a lot of stimulation, I have to understand that it's hard for her to remember how to act, and not get too distracted.

Apparently, just ignoring their tantrums/demands or whatever teaches them that screaming the place down won't get them anything. I saw this on a documentary where the parents kept giving in to the little sh*t everythime she SCREAMED for an icecream or a toy or whatnot. I was quite surprised to learn that after a while, the child's behaviour actually improved. The parents were taught to make a fuss whenever their child was good, and to simply ignore them when they were bad.

Have any parents tried this approach? I will add for the record that I am not a parent and don't intend to be for a VERY long time! :)


I saw something like this at home in a store one day. The kid wanted chocolate but refused to eat the chocolate bar he had in his hand, so screamed and sreamed and his mother ignored him and when he refused to walk and fell down on his knees, she dragged him screaming on his knees up and down the aisles, apologising to people as she passed, but ignored him. 20 minutes later, I saw them sitting outside, sobbing quietly and eating his original, now melted and squishy chocolate bar and looking with a very sorry look on his face towards his parents. I'm not sure this is the right method either, but I do agree with ignoring a tantrum, but I do think that it should be minimised in public where possible

No only that...but kids can quite easily figure out how to unlock the door and run off...or be tempted out by a stranger...imagine the horror of putting your kid in there for a time out and coming back to find them gone...*shudders*


Every year, we hear too many stories about kids dying alone in cars. It may only be 60 or 70 degrees out, but the temp in the car can go too high, too quick. You can just never do it-it'll never be worth it.

The smacking never helped when we were kids and tore strips out of each other. I've lost a lot of feeling in my back side, we were threatened with the wooden spoon, never worked for long...

I think the withholding method is better, we were smacked, never worked, my baby sister was sent to her room on her own, no TV, no treat after dinner, I've never come across a more well behaved kid in my life!
i think it depends on the kid really, my mum used to send me to my room and it never bothered me, I just used to use it to get my way, I'd turn on the old waterworks, my mum would feel bad and come upstairs and give me a cuddle and let me come back downstairs to misbehave again, whereas if she gave me a smack i'd be a little bit annoyed, but i was annoyed quietly and i got over it and didn't misbehave for a while, i think i've turned out to be a nice, well rounded human being and i know when i have to do as i'm told

we're not talking about having kids giving you cancer, we're talking about hearling one giggle
Ok, my uncle Ray had no kids. He did hang out with me and my cousins. He died of cancer.

The women I have noticed breast feeding in public are usually very discreet about it. They generally are prepared with a shirt and bra that allows easy access and a receiveing blanket of some type to cover them as well. I dont miss anything usually, but wonder how many moms have escaped my attention. So-no-Its not like its a whole spectacle. I never considered it obscene-a baby is eating and breast feeding is not some radical new thing to outrage people. Its perfectly acceptable.
I've seen people pissing on the side of the highway though, with no effort toward concealing what they're doing.

I agree. Breast feeding is perfectly normal. The purpose of the breast is to feed the baby. I believe the 'sexual' element came second in the list. So to those who are offended by it I say; "STOP STARING THEN!"

Yup, hell, I've even been judged for my nose stud -


I would only be concerned that tif you sneezed, you could put my eye out.

The women I have noticed breast feeding in public are usually very discreet about it. They generally are prepared with a shirt and bra that allows easy access and a receiveing blanket of some type to cover them as well. I dont miss anything usually, but wonder how many moms have escaped my attention. So-no-Its not like its a whole spectacle. I never considered it obscene-a baby is eating and breast feeding is not some radical new thing to outrage people. Its perfectly acceptable.
I've seen people pissing on the side of the highway though, with no effort toward concealing what they're doing.


I saw a woman breast feed in McDonalds once too, people stared a little, I think she felt self concious, but there's nowhere with a little bit of privacy for breast feeding women at home, it happens wherever your baby gets hungry enough to need a feed NOW, unless you express and have a portable warmer...

The women I have noticed breast feeding in public are usually. ..prepared with a shirt... bra...blanket of some type to cover them as well.....Its all good...But the mentality is to put that burden on the mother.

The mother should be given tolerance...and we should be grateful to them really.

Ok, my uncle Ray had no kids. He did hang out with me and my cousins. He died of cancer.
wow, i guess you're right then, i concede! listening to kids giggling gives you cancer! stay away from them!

I would only be concerned that tif you sneezed, you could put my eye out.

one time my mom sneezed and her dentures flew across teh table and landed in teh mashed potatoes. damn unruley parents and their body modifications.

I would only be concerned that tif you sneezed, you could put my eye out.


I had that problem with my nose stud, but only short term. Just think about where it is and what it's like up there after a couple of days. Trust me, it's difficult to pull out, let alone sneeze out. I shouldn't say any more, I'm in polite company...

Apparently, just ignoring their tantrums/demands or whatever teaches them that screaming the place down won't get them anything. I saw this on a documentary where the parents kept giving in to the little sh*t everythime she SCREAMED for an icecream or a toy or whatnot. I was quite surprised to learn that after a while, the child's behaviour actually improved. The parents were taught to make a fuss whenever their child was good, and to simply ignore them when they were bad.

Have any parents tried this approach? I will add for the record that I am not a parent and don't intend to be for a VERY long time! :)

Every kid is different. You can't parent them all the same way.

Yes, sometimes ignoring a behaviour decreases its frequency. But that behaviour can not be dangerous, or a behaviour that needs immediate correction. Giving a child everything they scream for doesn't teach them anything other than screaming for things works. Conversely, if you scream at your kids and expect immediate results, you are also teaching them the same thing. Lead by example.

Certain behaviours I will ignore. Whining for one. Change your tone, or don't bother talking to me. I'll explain that first, then walk away from the kid. They say it takes about two weeks for a behaviour to become instinctive, so be patient with relapses. Hitting her sister? Immediate and predictable consequence....description of bad behaviour, consequence, and application of that consequence (isolation for 3 minutes).

I reward good behaviour often, and I make sure my girls BOTH get praise as often as possible...I never want one to feel left out and start acting out just to get attention. Learning new skills like sharing, saying please, thank you, you're welcome, sorry and so on...much praise.

It's a juggling act, and sometimes we drop the ball, but the show goes on with or without us. Knowing how you are going to deal with something BEFORE it happens is key...but be prepared to change plans if necessary.

... I'm not sure this is the right method either, but I do agree with ignoring a tantrum, but I do think that it should be minimised in public where possible

The trick of course is how do you minimise the tantrum in public. The thing with ignoring the tantrum is that it takes a while for the child to learn that screaming gets them nothing. I'm not a liberal and so I don't have problems with smacking. I guess its trial and error really, what works with one kid may not work with the next.

Every kid is different. You can't parent them all the same way.

Yes, sometimes ignoring a behaviour decreases its frequency. But that behaviour can not be dangerous, or a behaviour that needs immediate correction. Giving a child everything they scream for doesn't teach them anything other than screaming for things works. Conversely, if you scream at your kids and expect immediate results, you are also teaching them the same thing. Lead by example.


My brother used to hit his head on the ground. It was fine when he was inside, he'd smack his head on the carpet, he could do it all day and get nowhere. It was when he took his tantrum outside and did the same thing on the concrete that he realised that he wasn't hurting anyone but himself....

What do you do with kids who just can't get along and fight and argue constantly?

I'm not a liberal and so I don't have problems with smacking. being liberal has nothing to do with that.

This is pretty amusing. She is 3 years old, and just giggling at what she thinks is funny. Aren't kids the future of our nation? I think that lady could put up with a little bit of giggling for a hour.

Its all good...But the mentality is to put that burden on the mother.

The mother should be given tolerance...and we should be grateful to them really.


I personally think that most babies are better off being breast fed. I think its healthier and helps the bond and security between the mother and baby.
Of course the mother should be given tolerance. If she is comfortable desretely breast feeding in public, its her choice. If she is not comfortable with it, it would be good for her to have a place where she can have some peace and privacy.

Whilst I do not always like kids, I have to remind myself that not only am I only 16, and in a lot of countries, still a child, but also that I have a behaviour skill of that of a 10 year old and can be known to argue incomprehendably and loudly in screams with my parents in public. Luckily I'm old enough to know if I want something I am perfectly capable of buying it myself.

I would never tell another child off unless I had some right to do so (if I was babysitting or somesuch), often if I am on a bus and a child is screaming and I can't take it anymore, I make faces at them, poke my tongue out, grin, whatever. I find a lot of them are quiet and nice after that. (Even if I can't stand the little brat, it's better than a screaming little brat.) :)

...Yes, sometimes ignoring a behaviour decreases its frequency. But that behaviour can not be dangerous, or a behaviour that needs immediate correction. Giving a child everything they scream for doesn't teach them anything other than screaming for things works. Conversely, if you scream at your kids and expect immediate results, you are also teaching them the same thing. Lead by example.

A good point. I have observed in the same documentary that if the parent looses their temper and shouts, then the child may pick up on that 'cos the parent is unintentionally setting the example.

I'm not a great fan of kids. I have a low tolerance for the racket and mess that goes with them. I love my neices and nephews, but can only tolerate them for short times.
So I don't have any of my own and don't hang out places they frequent unless I'm in one of my rare kid friendly moods.
But I really don't understand people who expect them to act like little adults.
What happened to your memory folks?

BTW, I'd probably kill any kid who was as obnoxious as I was as a kid. Good thing there aren't many that bad.

one time my mom sneezed and her dentures flew across teh table and landed in teh mashed potatoes. damn unruley parents and their body modifications.


Ewww... Check please!

This is pretty amusing. She is 3 years old, and just giggling at what she thinks is funny. Aren't kids the future of our nation? I think that lady could put up with a little bit of giggling for a hour.

I do agree. Giggling is definitely favourable to screaming. If she was flinging food at that woman and giggling at that, then that would be an issue, but giggling at bubbles in a fizzy drink is something pretty much every kid has done at some point in their lives...

I'm in the middle on this...

There are times when I hate kids. It is when the child(ren) are running aok and causing general chaos and are being more than a little noisy, whether it is at the coffee shop, the restaurant (family) or grocery store (basically, a place that is NOt outdoors a park or the family home or school etc)... I can't stand them, and I have made dirty looks at the parents for not controlling their children. These people make me not want to have children.

Then, there are the other half, the parents with well-behaved children (yes, giggly and noisy, but not a pain in the ass; I have younger cousins who are still kids who are very well-behaved), who have my respect because their children aren't out of control.

But...I still hate out of control brats. Am I unreasonable?

What do you do with kids who just can't get along and fight and argue constantly?
If the kid is fighting with another kid, figure out what the problem is. Is one of the kids doing sneaky things behind your back...like pulling the other's hair or provoking them? Are they fighting over toys, and unable to share? Pinpoint the root of the behaviour and deal with it. Sometimes, certain kids are just going to be bad for one another. When all else fails, minimize their contact.

If the kid just fights with EVERYONE, again, find out why. Are they hungry? Tired? Sick? Uncomfortable? Think about how YOU feel when you're like this, and then realise that kids express their emotions freely, rather than hold them in like we do. If your kid acts up every time you take them to the grocery store, no matter what you do to try and stop it, plan on not taking them for a while...get a babysitter while you get the groceries. Then try it again in a while, but make your expectations clear.

being liberal has nothing to do with that.

Okay, I withdraw the statement. I only said it 'cos that was the impression I was given.

BTW, I'd probably kill any kid who was as obnoxious as I was as a kid. Good thing there aren't many that bad.
you think you were bad? I was the teacher's worst nightmare; the smartass kid with zero attention span and more attitude than you could shake a stick at!

When I was very young, I told my mother that she wasn't my real mother and this wasn't my real home and asked her to take me home. It was around the time that my sister was born. She did the same thing at the same age, weird...

I wonder if it's a genetic thing?

often if I am on a bus and a child is screaming and I can't take it anymore, I make faces at them, poke my tongue out, grin, whatever. I find a lot of them are quiet and nice after that. (Even if I can't stand the little brat, it's better than a screaming little brat.) :)
More than once I have had someone do this to my kid, when I was just getting frazzled, and couldn't just take them outside or home immediately. Trust me, we appreciate it when people help like this...it shows a bit of understanding, and provides relief. I remember once in a restaurant, a man was looking at my daughter while she was acting up, and I was sure he was going to say something snide...when all of a sudden my daughter grew quiet and started wigginling her eyebrows. I turned around, and there was this man making funny faces, and she was imitating him! I paid for his meal, I was so grateful!

As always, there are two sides to every story. Kids have annoying habits that we all may or may not have had ourselves when we were that age. How the parents deal with it is the important thing.

Personally, if I am shopping in a bookstore (where you are trying to find something to read), and a child is disturbing, I would be terribly annoyed. I might not do what that lady did, I might even let it go because I understand that children are still learning. It definitely depends on the situation. However, you and your husband were just as rude as these people that you feel were in the wrong. I can overlook a child being annoying (most of the time), but I would definitely have said something back to you about your bold move to say something to me. As the kid lovers here have said, adults have no excuse. This applies to parents, too.
You said yourself that you are used to your children's behaviors, but you can not ask society to be on cue with patience to each and every child's personality every single time. Your patience as a parent wears down sometimes, too. Can it not be possible that your children were the millionth kids to annoy them and you caught THEM at the wrong moment?

We do not know anyone else's motivation behind their actions, and if they are not verbally abusing or harrassing your kids in any way, maybe you should be the bigger person and walk away.

EDIT: Yes, children are the future and yackity schmakity... BUT, that does not mean I must put up with ridiculous behavior, just because your child may or may NOT be the next president. We are living for no reason if we live only for procreation. My life has reason, too, not just the kids.

... was the impression I was given.France, Spain, Portugal, etc.. have millions of liberal parents...but the vast majority gets their children to respect them.

A good point. I have observed in the same documentary that if the parent looses their temper and shouts, then the child may pick up on that 'cos the parent is unintentionally setting the example.
Big hint...when a kid raises their voice...lower yours. They will subconsciously try to match you (usually, but not always). Raise your voice, and you escalate the situation.

And never, ever react to a behaviour angrily. You tend to do stupid things when you're angry. If YOU can't handle yourself when you're feeling an extreme emotion, how is your kid ever going to?

BTW, I'd probably kill any kid who was as obnoxious as I was as a kid. Good thing there aren't many that bad.
My mom always cursed me with, "May you have a child just like you were!"

I did. Damn mothers and their curses!

I have a lot more respect for her patience now!

God the teen years are going to be scary...

I'm in the middle on this...

There are times when I hate kids. It is when the child(ren) are running aok and causing general chaos and are being more than a little noisy, whether it is at the coffee shop, the restaurant (family) or grocery store (basically, a place that is NOt outdoors a park or the family home or school etc)... I can't stand them, and I have made dirty looks at the parents for not controlling their children. These people make me not want to have children.

Then, there are the other half, the parents with well-behaved children (yes, giggly and noisy, but not a pain in the ass; I have younger cousins who are still kids who are very well-behaved), who have my respect because their children aren't out of control.

But...I still hate out of control brats. Am I unreasonable?

You don't hate the children themselves. You hate their behaviour. The difference is important.

If the kid is fighting with another kid, figure out what the problem is. Is one of the kids doing sneaky things behind your back...like pulling the other's hair or provoking them? Are they fighting over toys, and unable to share? Pinpoint the root of the behaviour and deal with it. Sometimes, certain kids are just going to be bad for one another. When all else fails, minimize their contact.

If the kid just fights with EVERYONE, again, find out why. Are they hungry? Tired? Sick? Uncomfortable? Think about how YOU feel when you're like this, and then realise that kids express their emotions freely, rather than hold them in like we do. If your kid acts up every time you take them to the grocery store, no matter what you do to try and stop it, plan on not taking them for a while...get a babysitter while you get the groceries. Then try it again in a while, but make your expectations clear.

Cool...

What would you do if one of your kids kept coming into your bedroom at night? My little sister did it for years, but used to climb in and sleep on the edge of the bed, and fall out onto the hardwood floor, waking everyone but herself up, and then complaining of a sore head the next day. It's obvious she wasn't a light sleeper or was having nightmares, she's disabled and had to crawl up the stairs, so it's not sleep walking. Any other ideas?

I find kids my age very annoying. :D

you think you were bad? I was the teacher's worst nightmare; the smartass kid with zero attention span and more attitude than you could shake a stick at!In second grade I was sent to the principals office 62 times for fighting.
My mother said my first word was "no" and remained my favorite word for many years.
If all the swings on the playground were taken I'd shout as many dirty words as I knew (I even made up my own) so some little tattle tale would go tell the teacher and I could have his/her swing.

I find kids my age very annoying. :D
I hate the younger generation! So spoiled and so very annoying! (gah! I sound so old and I'm only 22).

I find kids my age very annoying. :D

In what age group? And what do you find annoying about them?

As always, there are two sides to every story. Kids have annoying habits that we all may or may not have had ourselves when we were that age. How the parents deal with it is the important thing.

Personally, if I am shopping in a bookstore (where you are trying to find something to read), and a child is disturbing, I would be terribly annoyed. I might not do what that lady did, I might even let it go because I understand that children are still learning. It definitely depends on the situation. However, you and your husband were just as rude as these people that you feel were in the wrong. I can overlook a child being annoying (most of the time), but I would definitely have said something back to you about your bold move to say something to me. As the kid lovers here have said, adults have no excuse. This applies to parents, too.

My husband asked her, "What was that?"

She flushed and looked down and mumbled "nothing".

Had what she done been something she felt justified in doing, no doubt she would have defended herself. Should my husband had just glared at her, and mumbled something under HIS breath? How mature would that have been? I think his response was reasonable, and clearly, she did not think hers was.


You said yourself that you are used to your children's behaviors, but you can not ask society to be on cue with patience to each and every child's personality every single time. Your patience as a parent wears down sometimes, too. Can it not be possible that your children were the millionth kids to annoy them and you caught THEM at the wrong moment?
Who is the adult in this equation? Is it acceptable for an adult to lash out at someone simply because that someone was the proverbial last straw?

We do not know anyone else's motivation behind their actions, and if they are not verbally abusing or harrassing your kids in any way, maybe you should be the bigger person and walk away.
Ah, well, you obviously missed the part where that in fact happened. You see, what my husband thought he heard was, "Shut up you little shit". Now, he wasn't sure, so he asked for clarification. Had she simply said, "Be a little quieter please", no doubt she would have repeated that.

Walking away is good, yes, but calling people on unacceptable behaviour is ALSO necessary.

In second grade I was sent to the principals office 62 times for fighting.
My mother said my first word was "no" and remained my favorite word for many years.
If all the swings on the playground were taken I'd shout as many dirty words as I knew (I even made up my own) so some little tattle tale would go tell the teacher and I could have his/her swing.
That's nothing!

In grade 1 I kicked a teacher and slammed a door in her face; talked back to my teachers, punched a girl twice in two days because I didn't want to get beated up threw balled up tin foil in the face of a classmate... I could go on. I swore a little starting in grade 4; by grade 9 I was a foul-mouthed bitch! And only suspended for a day in my last year og high school but only missed one class because my morning class was cancelled the next day!

I hate the younger generation! So spoiled and so very annoying! (gah! I sound so old and I'm only 22).

I know, it's depressing, after 21, it's down hill, you start getting depressed at each birthday because 30 is another year closer. How do you think I feel, I'm 26! I console myself with the thought that it's better to be 26 than to be my mother who has a daughter who's 26....

More than once I have had someone do this to my kid, when I was just getting frazzled, and couldn't just take them outside or home immediately. Trust me, we appreciate it when people help like this...it shows a bit of understanding, and provides relief. I remember once in a restaurant, a man was looking at my daughter while she was acting up, and I was sure he was going to say something snide...when all of a sudden my daughter grew quiet and started wigginling her eyebrows. I turned around, and there was this man making funny faces, and she was imitating him! I paid for his meal, I was so grateful!

Hey, need people like you around to pay my busfare, I'm a poor poverty-stricken college student. ;) (jk, I actually enjoy messing with kids like that, I wouldn't have expected anyone to return the favour for keeping their child quiet.)

Also there is the disadvantage that I live near Paulsgrove, UK, where a few years back there were paedophile protests (Council had taken him out of prison and put him in a flat looking over a primary school) so some parents will tell their children to stop, or actually voice that you're a paedophile (which I'm perfectly sure I'm not) to an entire busfull of people.

I know, it's depressing, after 21, it's down hill, you start getting depressed at each birthday because 30 is another year closer. How do you think I feel, I'm 26! I console myself with the thought that it's better to be 26 than to be my mother who has a daughter who's 26....
True...at least I'm not my boyfriend who's 26 and STILL living at home...

And each year that 30 gets closer, mom starts in about when you're getting married so she can start counting the grandchildren!

Cool...

What would you do if one of your kids kept coming into your bedroom at night? My little sister did it for years, but used to climb in and sleep on the edge of the bed, and fall out onto the hardwood floor, waking everyone but herself up, and then complaining of a sore head the next day. It's obvious she wasn't a light sleeper or was having nightmares, she's disabled and had to crawl up the stairs, so it's not sleep walking. Any other ideas?
Well, my daughter isn't disabled, but she had a terrible habit of always falling out of bed! I bought her a little toddler bed, and moved her out of mine (she used to sleep with me, and invariably, would toss around enough to fall off). I finally put her in another room to sleep, and at first, she would come in to sleep with me during the night. As soon as she fell asleep, I put her back in her bed. (A toddler bed is quite low to the ground, and usually has rails along half of it to prevent the child from rolling out) After quite a few months, she is finally used to sleeping in her own bed, in her own room, and only comes to me if she is feeling sick at night or has had a nightmare.

Why was your sister coming to sleep in someone else's room? Clearly she needed some sort of comfort, or felt better sleeping there. So, did her room scare her? Did she need to hear someone snoring to fall asleep?

That's nothing!

In grade 1 I kicked a teacher and slammed a door in her face; talked back to my teachers, punched a girl twice in two days because I didn't want to get beated up threw balled up tin foil in the face of a classmate... I could go on. I swore a little starting in grade 4; by grade 9 I was a foul-mouthed bitch! And only suspended for a day in my last year og high school but only missed one class because my morning class was cancelled the next day!

We were/are evil little bitches.
In 4th grade my special swear word was "fucker mucker bullshit." It was the most obscene thing I could think of.
BTW, my mother told me I'd have kids just like me. It scared me so bad I'll never have kids.

In what age group? And what do you find annoying about them?The age group of 13-18 year olds, because most of them:

1) Rarely talk about anything interesting

2) Use very annoying language (Well, I, like, totally hate school, not just because I'm so failing it, but the teachers are like boring!)

3) Tend to act immature for their age

4) Refuse to acknowledge that I am the Supreme Ruler of the Earth

I mean, practically anyone would find that annoying!

True...at least I'm not my boyfriend who's 26 and STILL living at home...

And each year that 30 gets closer, mom starts in about when you're getting married so she can start counting the grandchildren!


We got married 4 months ago, my siser-in-law has been bugging us for kids for about 4 years now, she she can have neices and nephews. I think my mother's scared of becoming a grandmother, makes her feel old, and she's only in her forties. But if my grandparents are anything to go by, she doesn't have any problems...

Tell your boyfriend to find a flat! It's not that hard. If you're together a while, suggest you move in together, but get him out from under his mothers thumb!!!

We were/are evil little bitches.
In 4th grade my special swear word was "fucker mucker bullshit." It was the most obscene thing I could think of.
BTW, my mother told me I'd have kids just like me. It scared me so bad I'll never have kids.
I've had the same curse laid on me.

I didn't have a special swear word, but I could always piss off the adults by not saying "my gosh" or "my goodness"... I always used "my god" and "goddamnit"... I spent time in a psychiatrist - who diagnosed me with ADHD...

I'm petty bad still - I argue back without screaming, which pisses off so many people (mainly my parents).

We were/are evil little bitches.
In 4th grade my special swear word was "fucker mucker bullshit." It was the most obscene thing I could think of.
BTW, my mother told me I'd have kids just like me. It scared me so bad I'll never have kids.
4th grade?! wow! I never heard swearing in school till I got to high school (10yrs old) and even then i never did any of the swearing, in fact i still don't swear very often except for the odd 'bloody'

The age group of 13-18 year olds, because most of them:

1) Rarely talk about anything interesting

2) Use very annoying language (Well, I, like, totally hate school, not just because I'm so failing it, but the teachers are like boring!)

3) Tend to act immature for their age

4) Refuse to acknowledge that I am the Supreme Ruler of the Earth

I mean, practically anyone would find that annoying!

I had similar problems. I went to an all girls school, the did nothing but talk about boys, make-up and, in the senior cycle, pubs, nightclubs and drinking. Bore bore bore....

And it is annoying when people don't take your superiority seriously... ;o)

As a child, I didn't swear, scream at my parents, or yell at teachers. I was very well-behaved.

Until age 7, when all hell broke loose.

Gimme Babies BIATCH!!!1!!

I was quite and you accused me for tealing a hat now i will destroy you!

As a child, I didn't swear, scream at my parents, or yell at teachers. I was very well-behaved.

Until age 7, when all hell broke loose.
i went through a 'stage' when i was 16 but it didn't last long and it wasn't really that bad

4th grade?! wow! I never heard swearing in school till I got to high school (10yrs old) and even then i never did any of the swearing, in fact i still don't swear very often except for the odd 'bloody'
I cussed like a sailor. My mother blamed my Dad and Aunt Sharon for teaching all those words. :D

The worst F word i regularily said was Fish til Intermediate-Middle school?......

Never heard the C word till i was 15 damn morals today! :(

And it is annoying when people don't take your superiority seriously... ;o)My parents especially don't seem to. They staunchly refuse to buy me my own private helicopter, vote for me as Grand High Lord Ruler of the Known and Unknown Multiverse, or at least give me a cookie. Well okay, sometimes they give me a cookie, but still...[/melodramatic claptrap]

The age group of 13-18 year olds, because most of them:

1) Rarely talk about anything interesting

2) Use very annoying language (Well, I, like, totally hate school, not just because I'm so failing it, but the teachers are like boring!)

3) Tend to act immature for their age

4) Refuse to acknowledge that I am the Supreme Ruler of the Earth

I mean, practically anyone would find that annoying!

From someone in the Age group I would like to completely agree with you. I don't use totally, I use like when I stammer, totally should be made swearing so you're punished for saying it unless it's necessary.

My parents especially don't seem to. They staunchly refuse to buy me my own private helicopter, vote for me as Grand High Lord Ruler of the Known and Unknown Multiverse, or at least give me a cookie. Well okay, sometimes they give me a cookie, but still...[/melodramatic claptrap]
0800 1111

I cussed like a sailor. My mother blamed my Dad and Aunt Sharon for teaching all those words. :D
I learned how to swear from my dad as well! My mother didn't like it... heck, neither did any of my teachers (including high school).

The worst F word i regularily said was Fish til Intermediate-Middle school?......

Never heard the C word till i was 15 damn morals today! :(I still don't say the F word except quietly, because my parents have a habit of dangling people who swear upside down out of our apartment window 144 feet above hard concrete until they repent or lose consciousness. [/hyperbole] I regularly consign non-working objects to hell and refer to other such objects as excrement. When I'm really mad, I go to the piano and play music by Webern until my family begs for mercy.

The worst F word i regularily said was Fish til Intermediate-Middle school?......

Never heard the C word till i was 15 damn morals today! :(

Hear the C word when I was 4 or 5, dad said it in front of the Nintendo, and I knew immediately it was swearing when the conversation when "Daddy, what's a C*nt?" *Slap*

Before anyone tries the "Slapping your children doesn't work" my parents tried every rule in the book, until one day my mum gave in a slapped me one, I was so shocked I shut up, that worked until I was about 13, then the rules was taking away my internet.

...that worked until I was about 13, then the rules was taking away my internet.The rules still are that way in my house.

From someone in the Age group I would like to completely agree with you. I don't use totally, I use like when I stammer, totally should be made swearing so you're punished for saying it unless it's necessary.I totally agree. [/sarcasm]

Why was your sister coming to sleep in someone else's room? Clearly she needed some sort of comfort, or felt better sleeping there. So, did her room scare her? Did she need to hear someone snoring to fall asleep?

There was nothing in her room to scare her. Because she's disabled, I think it makes her more independent because she relies on my mother to do so much, and when she's given some freedom, she grasps it by both hands. She had a say in how her room was decorated, she has a TV, hi-fi, games consoles, video recorder and loads of trinkets people have given her or she's bought with pocket money, or were passed down from us. And, the most comfortable bed in the house. She was spoiled by everyone because she was the youngest and wanted for nothing. Everyone paid attention to her and she's given everything she wants in life, from a kiss and cuddle whenever she wants it, to expensive electronic equipment for her bedroom, and she's the most well behaved kid ever, never complains, never makes a fuss, never expects anything and is so thankful for even the simplest of things. (I bought her a Washington DC t-shirt and posted it home for her, she wears it constantly, and it only cost me $2.50) She's always been in a room of her own, except when she's in hospital, then my mother has to stay with her, but that's understandable. She wakes up at 4 or 5 in the morning, so it's not noise or lack of it, because by then, the house has been silent for hours...

I don't know, maybe it's just a habit...she's almost 10 now, she's grown out of it now and sleeps well, better than any kid I know, even Christmas, she gets at least 10 hours

My parents especially don't seem to. They staunchly refuse to buy me my own private helicopter, vote for me as Grand High Lord Ruler of the Known and Unknown Multiverse, or at least give me a cookie. Well okay, sometimes they give me a cookie, but still...[/melodramatic claptrap]

I suggest bitch slapping

I totally agree. [/sarcasm]

*winces*

It's a really horrible word.

Tell your boyfriend to find a flat! It's not that hard. If you're together a while, suggest you move in together, but get him out from under his mothers thumb!!!
No, I think he likes it too much.

No, I think he likes it too much.

Laugh at him, undermine his masculinity, that might make him move out, or dump you. Maybe my advice isn't the best....

The rules still are that way in my house.
My dad gave up that rule after I built his computer. He doesn't because then I go and I fucked up his computer. He knows I'd do it too, so, he doesn't fight me on that turf any more because I'm the one who fixes his computer.

*winces*

It's a really horrible word.I listed it as one of the Ten Most Annoying Words along with "like", backformations (i.e. "enthuse", "emote",
"opine"), split infinitives ("to so fail"—"I'm so failing history"), and a few others.

Hey, maybe I'll start a thread listing the ten most annoying words.

My dad gave up that rule after I built his computer. He doesn't because then I go and I fucked up his computer. He knows I'd do it too, so, he doesn't fight me on that turf any more because I'm the one who fixes his computer.

Ah, power over parents, so sweet...

My dad gave up that rule after I built his computer. He doesn't because then I go and I fucked up his computer. He knows I'd do it too, so, he doesn't fight me on that turf any more because I'm the one who fixes his computer.I *have* to learn computer programming! :headbang: *cusses at high schools that never teach anything useful*

Laugh at him, undermine his masculinity, that might make him move out, or dump you. Maybe my advice isn't the best....
Trust me...this guy has to tiptoe around the religious issue. he doesn't have the guts to tell his parents to shove the religious crap. He always tells me how much he hates the Jewish crap he has to do and yet, he won't say no to his mother.

"Fine, you don't get that chocolate I was going to surprise you with, then..." My mum used to use that stratagy... Until I called her on it. ^_^

My husband asked her, "What was that?"

She flushed and looked down and mumbled "nothing".

Had what she done been something she felt justified in doing, no doubt she would have defended herself. Should my husband had just glared at her, and mumbled something under HIS breath? How mature would that have been? I think his response was reasonable, and clearly, she did not think hers was.



Who is the adult in this equation? Is it acceptable for an adult to lash out at someone simply because that someone was the proverbial last straw?


Ah, well, you obviously missed the part where that in fact happened. You see, what my husband thought he heard was, "Shut up you little shit". Now, he wasn't sure, so he asked for clarification. Had she simply said, "Be a little quieter please", no doubt she would have repeated that.

Walking away is good, yes, but calling people on unacceptable behaviour is ALSO necessary.


How would you know what she thought? Maybe she felt intimitdated by your husband. Yes, there is doubt. Maybe she just wanted the child to be quiet and after she realized there was going to be a big deal made out of it, she decided to back off because it is a public place.

As for the last straw, I don't think that a glare or two could be considered as lashing out. Or even shushing someone. If that is "lashing out", I would certainly love to live where you live. Where I live, it is called being normal.

As I stated, there are two sides to every story. Your perceptions of the way things happen are through the eyes of the mother of these children. I am definitely NOT saying that some people don't overreact to children's behavior, because I have seen it happen. But, everyone uses their own scale. There is nothing wrong with standing up for your kids. But, just as these people should be a little more accepting of kids, your idea of what is acceptable is on a standard that is way to strict for what society is in reality.

I promise that I am not trying to attack here, however, I am tired of people making me uncomfortable because they decide to have children. I know there may be a barrage of disagreement after this statement, it is a person's choice to smoke, but it doesn't mean everyone else has to breathe it in because you made that choice.

Again, if someone is actually harrassing your children, this is when you have a right to react.

Laugh at him, undermine his masculinity, that might make him move out, or dump you. Maybe my advice isn't the best....
Trust me...this guy has to tiptoe around the religious issue. he doesn't have the guts to tell his parents to shove the religious crap. He always tells me how much he hates the Jewish crap he has to do and yet, he won't say no to his mother. So to suggest such things... it won't work.

I *have* to learn computer programming! :headbang: *cusses at high schools that never teach anything useful*

Easy, get a book on an object based programming language, like C, C++ or Java, they're the easiest languages to learn, they're like typing in regular english almost. I learned C in about 10 hours in college, but I already knew Java. HTML is also a good one to learn, and really easy too, just read through the source code for any website, just go to View>Page source (i'm using Mozilla Firefox, might be different for different browsers)

Trust me...this guy has to tiptoe around the religious issue. he doesn't have the guts to tell his parents to shove the religious crap. He always tells me how much he hates the Jewish crap he has to do and yet, he won't say no to his mother.

He needs to move out. Then he can pretend he's keeping up with his religious activities to keep his parents happy, and spend time doing what he wants and live his life the way he wants, and everyone is happy. Not condoning lying to your parents, but bending the truth to please everyone. It's called diplomacy, something I learned recently, and I'm getting on with everyone at home so well!!!

I personally think that most babies are better off being breast fed. I think its healthier and helps the bond and security between the mother and baby. Not to mention that it's better for the immune system, and they poo a lot less...

Not to mention that it's better for the immune system, and they poo a lot less...

Seriously? About the poo bit, the immune system bit is common sense...

Yeah, it's because the mother's milk has the exact right combination of nutrients that the baby needs, whereas cows milk for example has way too much protein, and so the nappies stink a lot more.

Yeah, it's because the mother's milk has the exact right combination of nutrients that the baby needs, whereas cows milk for example has way too much protein, and so the nappies stink a lot more.

Makes sense...
Do babies spit up as much on breast milk as they do on cows milk?

I promise that I am not trying to attack here, however, I am tired of people making me uncomfortable because they decide to have children. I know there may be a barrage of disagreement after this statement, it is a person's choice to smoke, but it doesn't mean everyone else has to breathe it in because you made that choice.

Again, if someone is actually harrassing your children, this is when you have a right to react.Thank you for backing off a bit there, because your original statement is that we were just as rude as this woman. I don't think my husband misheard her, and frankly, if you are the type of person who would swear at a stranger's kid, then yes, I consider that to be harrassment, and out of line. When you talked about lashing out, you did not specify 'a glare or two', and it sounded more like something physical or verbal. I think we are a bit clearer now.

How would you know what she thought? Maybe she felt intimitdated by your husband.
Somewhat like a child would be intimidated by a strange adult mutering obscenties at them?

Fair game, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, it's because the mother's milk has the exact right combination of nutrients that the baby needs, whereas cows milk for example has way too much protein, and so the nappies stink a lot more.
Also, children tend to absorb mother's milk more completely, and can sometimes go for DAYS without having a bowel movement. If they aren't urninating however, there is a problem.

Once kids turn to solids...it's downhill from there in the smell department:)

Makes sense...
Do babies spit up as much on breast milk as they do on cows milk?
Usually not, because the mother's milk is easier on their system, and easily digestible. But babies will spit up regardless, that's just how they work:) If they eat to much, or don't get burped enough, or if their tummies are upset. They simply don't have the control adults do when their gorge rises, for example. Lots of burping is good, and soothing to the child, but it won't guarantee no spit up. Which is why parents live in clothes that don't need drycleaning, and usually have a towel over their shoulder when burping:).

Somewhat like a child would be intimidated by a strange adult mutering obscenties at them?

Fair game, as far as I'm concerned.

You don't even know that is what happened. You said that you didn't even hear what the lady said. No, it isn't like a child being intimidated by a strange adult, when you have no idea what the facts are. You never said your child was afraid of this person. Nor was there any feasible explanation for chastising someone for glaring.

A game? There is no game. All of this is so petty. I have watched parents use their children as excuses and reasons to be able to get away with things my whole life. People walking out into traffic with carriages, because they are using their child as a "right of way"... apparently, people feel cars MUST stop for them, because they have a kid. Or, having to do extra work because people with children are excused all of the time for whatever little "emergency" pops up with their child. There is a line in which should not be crossed. However, the "line" is placed in different places for parents and non-parents. I am aware of this line, so I have patience with little children. I have a nephew. I have experienced ridiculous behavior from both sides. But, I will not accept that being a parent is an excuse for anything negative. Teaching a child to walk away is an important lesson. I have lots ofpatience for kids, and I love to be around children. But, I do not have patience for parents and their biased opinions of their kids.

You don't even know that is what happened. You said that you didn't even hear what the lady said. No, it isn't like a child being intimidated by a strange adult, when you have no idea what the facts are. You never said your child was afraid of this person. Nor was there any feasible explanation for chastising someone for glaring.

A game? There is no game. All of this is so petty. I have watched parents use their children as excuses and reasons to be able to get away with things my whole life. People walking out into traffic with carriages, because they are using their child as a "right of way"... apparently, people feel cars MUST stop for them, because they have a kid. Or, having to do extra work because people with children are excused all of the time for whatever little "emergency" pops up with their child. There is a line in which should not be crossed. However, the "line" is placed in different places for parents and non-parents. I am aware of this line, so I have patience with little children. I have a nephew. I have experienced ridiculous behavior from both sides. But, I will not accept that being a parent is an excuse for anything negative. Teaching a child to walk away is an important lesson. I have lots ofpatience for kids, and I love to be around children. But, I do not have patience for parents and their biased opinions of their kids.
Uh-huh. Well, thank you for painting me with the wide brush of your prejudice. You're right, I don't know what happened. I have to trust my husband's account of the event, because I was not witness to it. But guess what...you have even less of an idea of what went on, so keep your baseless accusations of intimidation, 'using my child as an excuse', 'biased opinions of my children', 'being excused all the time for whatever little "emergency" pops up with my children', 'ridiculous behaviour' and so on to yourself. This woman did not simply glare, and I made that point very clear. Stop using me and my quotes as your anti-parent sounding board.

An important thing childless people need to understand about parents is that once you have kids, your priorities need to completely change. Life is no longer about you alone, and your enjoyment. Now, your life is about providing for, and raising your children. Extra hours at the office are great for your career...but if if hurts your kids, you have to take a pass. You take sick days to care for your kids, and it might hurt your possibilities of promotion...but YOU are the main caregivers, and that is a MUCH more important job than anything else. Someone is rude, and ignorant, and hateful to you? You can let it go...but you will defend your child to the utmost of your ability because they are wholly dependent on you for many years. You shape your life to suit them, and then eventually, you must allow them to pull away and do it on their own. It's a hard thing, but necessary.

So when you ask your friend to come out dancing one weekend, she says yes, but cancels because her son is sick...it isn't an excuse. When your coworker takes an extended absense to care for his children...it isn't a vacation. When you find all your friends with kids talk about nothing but their kids...understand that the bulk of their time is spent focused around them, and politely remind them that 'parent talk' is a bit annoying when you can contribute.

I have every right to say things as I say, just as you do. I am under no rules except those that the moderators have us all under. This is a community of opinions.

Wow, I never said you were guilty of all of those things, nor was I just specifically speaking of you or to you. I was using this opportunity to voice my opinion of the various situations I have experienced. Some even come from my mother, a woman that raised 2 children by herself, and never had to act in these manners. Or lack thereof, rather. I am saying this to you specifically, though. You are a sensitve person. A parent should be a sensitive person, but when a sensitive person becomes overwhelmed, they project their feelings onto others. I see what you are saying, but I do not agree with you. You are taking my opinions too personally, when in fact it is all parents to whom I am speaking. If you do not act in this way, do not concern yourself with what I say.

Biased does not imply a negative connotation. But, you have a biased opinion of your children because they are your children. I am not saying it is wrong, I am saying that it is simply yours.

I am far from prejudice. I have the luxury of loving children, but not having them. I am the type of person in society you want to encounter with your children. I do not shush, or glare, or anything else you would deem as wrong. I encourage them, I love their laughter, I empathize when they cry. However, when I was a counselor, it is my experience that parents do not carry on like they should in front of their children. The children I worked with were fresh clay, in which I could mold into understanding human beings. Even young children. It is the parents that do not wish to sympathize with the rest of the world.

EDIT: Let it be noted... My mother, being a single parent, never had to cause her co-workers grief because of her issues with her children. My sister does not do that to her co-workers when my nephew has an issue. Just because I do not have children does not mean I should have less rights at my job. If your lifestyle choice is impeding upon the people you work with, you are not only effecting those without children, but those with children as well. Great! Please do choose your children over your job! You should! But, don't expect people to be understanding when they wanted to take a long overdue vacation (i.e.) but can't because your boss lets you take time off to take your kids to the doctor. Your kids are not anyone else's priority.

I listed it as one of the Ten Most Annoying Words along with "like", backformations (i.e. "enthuse", "emote",
"opine"), split infinitives ("to so fail"—"I'm so failing history"), and a few others.

Hey, maybe I'll start a thread listing the ten most annoying words.


The back-formation has a long and storied history, but most commonly as an abbreviation for long nouns:

Math(ematics) Calc(ulus) Trig(onometry)
Prof(essor) Dorm(itory) Prom(enade)
Quad(rangle) Sci(ence)-Fi(ction) Hi(gh)-Fi(delity)

...and many more. They're most common in academia, medicine, politics and science.

However, I completely agree that backformed verbs, especially most recent ones, are more a mark of laziness than an abbreviation. The corporate culture is mostly to blame for the recent explosion of this abhorrent phenomenon. Ad writers are complicit: "the right way to office." Uh, where's the damn verb in that sentence?

Other examples of this linguistic abortion:

to meeting
to enthuse
to sex (something up)

It began with adding the verb ending "-ize" to everything, and that became too much work. My point is that kids aren't always to blame for crappy language.

Ad writers are complicit: "the right way to office." Uh, where's the damn verb in that sentence?

Other examples of this linguistic abortion:

to meeting
to enthuse
to sex (something up)
Hey. We're verbing words.

Wasn't there a Calvin and Hobbes strip on that?

I understand that people with no kids don't have the same tolerance levels as those of us who do. The sound of my girls yelling or screaming while they play doesn't bother me anymore, but when I have friends over, I can see them wincing. I get that. So I don't take my kids to a lot of places I would like to go. I don't take them to libraries, (unless there is a kid-friendly activity going on), I don't take them to the movie theatre (unless there is a children's viewing room, a truly wonderful place that separates us from the rest of the crowd), and I don't take them to fancy restaurants. But neither do I think my children should be confined to their bedrooms until they reach 18. How are they supposed to learn how to act in public if I never take them out? Supermarkets, certain stores, and certain restaurants are fair game.

We went to a book store one day, and my daughter ran around one aisle, giggling. My husband went to get her. A woman, sitting in a chair, reading a book SHE HADN'T PAID FOR, I might add, angrily shushed my daughter and muttered something at her. My husband saw this and asked her, "What was that?" The woman blushed, looked down and mumbled, "nothing". Yeah, that's right...you can say it to a kid that is too young to tell her parents, but you won't repeat it to them? Go to a library if you want quiet. Or shush me if I talk to loud and be prepared to deal with my response.
Fantabulous.

I haven't really read past this point, but I'm a little lazy and should be doing something else right now, so I'm going to respond like it was a much shorter thread.

I have a complex thing with kids.

First-children love me. Always have. And old people. And most pets. But this is about kids. So...children love me. I will play with children, make faces at them in line at the store, make the same noises they make to befuddle them, etc. I even entertained them professionally for a while. (Not to the quality as Lunatic Goofballs, I cheated and wore a character costume, mostly Ninja Turtles)

BUT-

Kids are like adults in one very big aspect-just like anyone else there are cool ones and there are jerks. Being a kid doesn't change that, it just amplifies it. So I don't like kids in the same way I don't like people. But-I'm still going to be polite and kind to people and still going to make faces and play with little kids. 'Cause I'm not a dick.

However-there are times and places I'd like to be kid free. The idea of a childrens viewing room in a theater is GROUNDBREAKING and should be installed in all megaplexes immediately. I certainly don't begrudge a parent taking thier kids to a movie, but man is it a drag. When I go see something like James and the Giant Peach I have to suck it up, the movie is really for them it just happens to be watchable to me. But Big Lebowski???

Selling tickets for a non-profit that has producers from arts and lectures, plays and cultural events it's difficult to explain to some people why their 2 year old has to have a ticket. First, no way that kid is going to manage 2 1/2 hours on your lap, you shafting the poor bastard next to you to deal with that fidgety kid in the next lap over and, most importantly-that two year old is not likely to maintain through the show. And we have to have an accurate account of how many people, no matter how old, are in the auditorium. They pay full price like everyone else because we are hoping you'll think it's better just to get a babysitter or give this event a pass.

Having kids is the natural order of things and you can't really restrict the parents too much realistically. But I'm not a drinker and the only place I know I can go without kids being there is a bar. Oh, and I like to swear and I like my entertainment untamed. I don't want to raise someone elses kid-'it takes a village' is obnoxious. You (not you Sinue) had a kid, you raise them. I didn't because I want to spit and swear and be irresponsable and watch violent sexy programing. And I'm a pacifist, sort that one out.

Anyway, now that this it too long and unfocused for anyone to read-kids good, nuetral corners even better.

Wow, I never said you were guilty of all of those things, nor was I just specifically speaking of you or to you. I was using this opportunity to voice my opinion of the various situations I have experienced.
Yes, yes you were specifically speaking of me, and then jumped into a rant about parents. So, for future clarity, respond to my post specifically, then have a separate anti-parent post. That way, I can be sure you are not making these comments to me. Easy enough, no?

The back-formation has a long and storied history, but most commonly as an abbreviation for long nouns:

Math(ematics) Calc(ulus) Trig(onometry)
Prof(essor) Dorm(itory) Prom(enade)
Quad(rangle) Sci(ence)-Fi(ction) Hi(gh)-Fi(delity)

...and many more. They're most common in academia, medicine, politics and science.

However, I completely agree that backformed verbs, especially most recent ones, are more a mark of laziness than an abbreviation. The corporate culture is mostly to blame for the recent explosion of this abhorrent phenomenon. Ad writers are complicit: "the right way to office." Uh, where's the damn verb in that sentence?

Other examples of this linguistic abortion:

to meeting
to enthuse
to sex (something up)

It began with adding the verb ending "-ize" to everything, and that became too much work. My point is that kids aren't always to blame for crappy language.I think it's, "the right way to [get to, go to] [the] office." By "office" they mean political office, I think. I've seen few short sentences so vague.

I didn't know about "to meeting". It's really weird. But it must have been this laziness that led my 8-year-old brother (a junior NSer) to think that the infinitive form of a verb ends in "-ing".

You don't even know that is what happened. You said that you didn't even hear what the lady said. No, it isn't like a child being intimidated by a strange adult, when you have no idea what the facts are. You never said your child was afraid of this person. Nor was there any feasible explanation for chastising someone for glaring.

A game? There is no game. All of this is so petty. I have watched parents use their children as excuses and reasons to be able to get away with things my whole life. People walking out into traffic with carriages, because they are using their child as a "right of way"... apparently, people feel cars MUST stop for them, because they have a kid. Or, having to do extra work because people with children are excused all of the time for whatever little "emergency" pops up with their child. There is a line in which should not be crossed. However, the "line" is placed in different places for parents and non-parents. I am aware of this line, so I have patience with little children. I have a nephew. I have experienced ridiculous behavior from both sides. But, I will not accept that being a parent is an excuse for anything negative. Teaching a child to walk away is an important lesson. I have lots ofpatience for kids, and I love to be around children. But, I do not have patience for parents and their biased opinions of their kids.You're going a bit extreme here. There are two sides of the argument I hate:

1) Reactionary: Kids should be seen and not heard. They cannot talk back to their parents. When they misbehave, corporal punishment should be administered. Kids should do their homework before playing video games. Kids should not go on the internet to places like forums.jolt.co.uk because of all the bad people (like me ;)) online.

2) Radical: Kids are blameless. Kids have to get As or something's wrong with the teachers. Kids should be allowed to do whatever they want, since childhood comes only once.

The first leads to repression in kids and ultimately they may go crazy. The second leads to unruly kids. Both lead to crime (repressed kids shoot somebody to let out their anger, unruly kids shoot someone because their parents never taught them it's wrong). I think we can be sensible about this.

Kids should be allowed to do whatever they want, provided they have finished their responsibilities. If they get a D-minus on a test, it is their own fault. I'd like to blame teachers for some of my D-minuses, but they were all my fault for spending time on NS instead of studying. ;) I think both the reactionary and radical viewpoints are BS. Parents who think their kids are perfect should STFU, no one is perfect. Not even me.

You're going a bit extreme here. There are two sides of the argument I hate:

1) Reactionary: Kids should be seen and not heard. They cannot talk back to their parents. When they misbehave, corporal punishment should be administered. Kids should do their homework before playing video games. Kids should not go on the internet to places like forums.jolt.co.uk because of all the bad people (like me ;)) online.

2) Radical: Kids are blameless. Kids have to get As or something's wrong with the teachers. Kids should be allowed to do whatever they want, since childhood comes only once.

The first leads to repression in kids and ultimately they may go crazy. The second leads to unruly kids. Both lead to crime (repressed kids shoot somebody to let out their anger, unruly kids shoot someone because their parents never taught them it's wrong). I think we can be sensible about this.

Kids should be allowed to do whatever they want, provided they have finished their responsibilities. If they get a D-minus on a test, it is their own fault. I'd like to blame teachers for some of my D-minuses, but they were all my fault for spending time on NS instead of studying. ;) I think both the reactionary and radical viewpoints are BS. Parents who think their kids are perfect should STFU, no one is perfect. Not even me.

I agree with you. But, I don't see how that relates to what I am talking about. Could you clarify for me?

Yes, yes you were specifically speaking of me, and then jumped into a rant about parents. So, for future clarity, respond to my post specifically, then have a separate anti-parent post. That way, I can be sure you are not making these comments to me. Easy enough, no?

Please do not assume things. Especially, when it involves what I say. I know what I mean when I say it, and to whom I am speaking. Again, this is a forum. If I am posting, it is in regards to whomever reads it.

Also, are you a moderator? Unless you are, do not tell me when, how, what, or where to post. Just because you started this thread, does not mean you control it. Do you really think that you can post something where you KNOW people are going to disagree with you, and then rip into them if they actually do disagree? It is just as ridiculous as me telling you to not post in the "I hate kids" thread.

I agree with you. But, I don't see how that relates to what I am talking about. Could you clarify for me?You agree?

In that case, I didn't know what you were talking about.

What you said displayed an extreme animosity against the "radical" or "unruly" side of the kid equation. It implied a preference for the "reactionary" side. However, I did not read your post very carefully and am sorry if I offended you. I should learn to stop making assumptions.

Please do not assume things. Especially, when it involves what I say. I know what I mean when I say it, and to whom I am speaking. Again, this is a forum. If I am posting, it is in regards to whomever reads it.

Also, are you a moderator? Unless you are, do not tell me when, how, what, or where to post. Just because you started this thread, does not mean you control it. Do you really think that you can post something where you KNOW people are going to disagree with you, and then rip into them if they actually do disagree? It is just as ridiculous as me telling you to not post in the "I hate kids" thread.



Instead of reacting emotionally to my request for clarity in your posts, perhaps you should examine what you HAVE posted, and understand that this statement:


Wow, I never said you were guilty of all of those things, nor was I just specifically speaking of you or to you. I was using this opportunity to voice my opinion of the various situations I have experienced.

...is in fact not true. Yes, you WERE specifically speaking of me, AND to me. That is not an assumption, it is documented in your own words. I thanked you the one time you did back off, and that seemed to set you off again. When you say things like the following, which are directed specifically at ME, and then continue on using the second person "you" without specifying that you are no longer speaking to me, it is NOT clear that you mean other people. I asked you to clarify that. Respond directly to me, with the appropriate quote, so that I know you are addressing me personally. If you DON'T want me to assume the rest of your rant is about me, MAKE THAT CLEAR. I can't enforce that, no, but I can suggest to you that if you want clarity, don't expect telepathy on the part of other readers. You are responsible for representing yourself.


However, you and your husband were just as rude as these people that you feel were in the wrong. I can overlook a child being annoying (most of the time), but I would definitely have said something back to you about your bold move to say something to me. As the kid lovers here have said, adults have no excuse. This applies to parents, too. You said yourself that you are used to your children's behaviors, but you can not ask society to be on cue with patience to each and every child's personality every single time. Your patience as a parent wears down sometimes, too. Can it not be possible that your children were the millionth kids to annoy them and you caught THEM at the wrong moment?

We do not know anyone else's motivation behind their actions, and if they are not verbally abusing or harrassing your kids in any way, maybe you should be the bigger person and walk away.

How would you know what she thought? Maybe she felt intimitdated by your husband. Yes, there is doubt. Maybe she just wanted the child to be quiet and after she realized there was going to be a big deal made out of it, she decided to back off because it is a public place.

As for the last straw, I don't think that a glare or two could be considered as lashing out. Or even shushing someone. If that is "lashing out", I would certainly love to live where you live. Where I live, it is called being normal.

As I stated, there are two sides to every story. Your perceptions of the way things happen are through the eyes of the mother of these children. I am definitely NOT saying that some people don't overreact to children's behavior, because I have seen it happen. But, everyone uses their own scale. There is nothing wrong with standing up for your kids. But, just as these people should be a little more accepting of kids, your idea of what is acceptable is on a standard that is way to strict for what society is in reality.

Please do not assume things. Especially, when it involves what I say. I know what I mean when I say it, and to whom I am speaking. Again, this is a forum. If I am posting, it is in regards to whomever reads it.

Also, are you a moderator? Unless you are, do not tell me when, how, what, or where to post. Just because you started this thread, does not mean you control it. Do you really think that you can post something where you KNOW people are going to disagree with you, and then rip into them if they actually do disagree? It is just as ridiculous as me telling you to not post in the "I hate kids" thread.I agree. There's nothing more annoying than someone who pretends to "own" a thread. If you start a thread in General, expect it to be taken over by NSers en masse. No offense directed at Sinuhue specifically, but at NSers who do this in general. [no pun intended]

However, Koshkaboo, you are a little bit extreme based on the posts I saw earlier. I agree with some of them, but not all, and stop fighting with the other posters in this thread. Please don't make me act as a moderator here; leave it to one of the real mods.

However, Koshkaboo, you are a little bit extreme based on the posts I saw earlier. I agree with some of them, but not all, and stop fighting with the other posters in this thread. Please don't make me act as a moderator here; leave it to one of the real mods.
Thank you for examining the posts and then making a decision, rather than simply accepting Kosh's accusation as proven. I do not feel that I have been trying to moderate content, but rather, have attempted to ask for and look for clarity in order to make appropriate responses. However, being accused of godmoding is akin to being called a liar or thief when you feel yourself innocent...frustrating, to say the least.

You agree?

In that case, I didn't know what you were talking about.

What you said displayed an extreme animosity against the "radical" or "unruly" side of the kid equation. It implied a preference for the "reactionary" side. However, I did not read your post very carefully and am sorry if I offended you. I should learn to stop making assumptions.

No, I wasn't offended at all. Just confused for a minute ;)

I actually was just saying that I don't really like the radical behaviors of young parents. I have noticed older parents don't seem to act like that. I have an extreme patience for children. It's parents that don't have patience for society that irk me really.

Thank you for examining the posts and then making a decision, rather than simply accepting Kosh's accusation as proven. I do not feel that I have been trying to moderate content, but rather, have attempted to ask for and look for clarity in order to make appropriate responses. However, being accused of godmoding is akin to being called a liar or thief when you feel yourself innocent...frustrating, to say the least.True. I hate frustration; it's so frustrating. ;)

True. I hate frustration; it's so frustrating. ;)
Except when it's the good kind of frustration *wiggles eyebrows, then gives up and decides to stop drinking coffee because it makes her weird*

Source please.
Good show, chap, good show!

I actually was just saying that I don't really like the radical behaviors of young parents. I have noticed older parents don't seem to act like that. Generalisations based on purely anecdotal evidence. Older parents can be as flawed as younger, or as unflawed... I have an extreme patience for children. It's parents that don't have patience for society that irk me really. Parents are not standing outside of society, they are a part of it. Some parents may not have patience for childless people WITHIN their society, just as some childless people may not have patience for parents. It isn't a one way street, and it is not happening outside the boundaries of society, but rather within it.

Thank you for examining the posts and then making a decision, rather than simply accepting Kosh's accusation as proven. I do not feel that I have been trying to moderate content, but rather, have attempted to ask for and look for clarity in order to make appropriate responses. However, being accused of godmoding is akin to being called a liar or thief when you feel yourself innocent...frustrating, to say the least.

I said JUST specifically to you, meaning involving you, but not just you. I also said that if it didn't apply to you to disregard it. I think you are proving every point I make without even trying. As I said, two sides to every story. You feel attacked. I feel attacked. You are no more right or wrong than I am. Opinions aren't fact and you are not going to change mine. In fact, you are making mine stronger.

Anyway, this sentence is for everyone here, since I must clarify sentence by sentence. I am not being extreme. I have worked with children for years, and I can honestly say that it is usually the parents that counselors have trouble with. Ask any counselor. This is the simple truth. Some people can not take the truth, and that is fine. I am not trying to argue with anyone, because I don't do that. I was simply stating my opinion and then Sinuhue felt I was personally attacking her. I don't need to be moderated, I just would like for my opinion to be stated regardless if it is agreement with the threads author or not.

Here is my apology to you, Sinuhue. I was simply trying to say that maybe you should be patient with society just as you feel society should be patient with your children. This was my intention the entire time. This conversation has gotten out of hand, obviously, and that I am sorry about for my part. I stand by everything I say, however.

Older parents can be as flawed as younger, or as unflawed... Parents are not standing outside of society, they are a part of it. Some parents may not have patience for childless people WITHIN their society, just as some childless people may not have patience for parents. It isn't a one way street, and it is not happening outside the boundaries of society, but rather within it.

I am aware.

I said JUST specifically to you, meaning involving you, but not just you. I also said that if it didn't apply to you to disregard it. And I asked that you make it clear what applied to me and not. That is all. I think you are proving every point I make without even trying.
What point is that exactly? That parents are "x" and I am acting like a parent by doing "x"?

As I said, two sides to every story. You feel attacked. I feel attacked. You are no more right or wrong than I am. Opinions aren't fact and you are not going to change mine. In fact, you are making mine stronger.

Anyway, this sentence is for everyone here, since I must clarify sentence by sentence. I am not being extreme. I have worked with children for years, and I can honestly say that it is usually the parents that counselors have trouble with. Ask any counselor. This is the simple truth. Some people can not take the truth, and that is fine. I am not trying to argue with anyone, because I don't do that. I was simply stating my opinion and then Sinuhue felt I was personally attacking her. I don't need to be moderated, I just would like for my opinion to be stated regardless if it is agreement with the threads author or not.

Here is my apology to you, Sinuhue. I was simply trying to say that maybe you should be patient with society just as you feel society should be patient with your children. This was my intention the entire time. This conversation has gotten out of hand, obviously, and that I am sorry about for my part. I stand by everything I say, however.

Thank you for your clarification. The problem with English is that we have no way of knowing when "you" is meant as first person singular, or plural. You may have meant it in some cases as singular, specifically in regards to my situation, but I was not able to discern when (for sure) that "you" became second person plural. I did not feel you were personally attacking me, but rather speaking directly to the situation I described. When you began speaking generally about other situations, I wondered if you were comparing them to mine, and I did not think the comparison apt.

At one point you said, "I know what I mean when I say it, and to whom I am speaking". My intent, this entire time was to make you understand that while this is no doubt true, WE do not always know what you mean when you say it, nor do we always know to whom you are speaking. Again, thank you for clarifying that. This is all I wanted.

I am aware.
Are you? I guess you know that you are. Your statement however did not inform us that you were aware parents were PART of society rather than outsiders looking in. I just wanted to make it clear that I think the dichotomy is rather: parents versus childless people rather than parents versus society.

I accept your apology, too. Thanks.

I accept your apology, too. Thanks.
Yeah, I guess I didn't make that part of it clear enough. I DO apologise, and offer the olive branch. :fluffle:

Stepping away from a conversation and looking at it later, we don't realize how wrapped up we get in what we say. Then, it is right there in front of us. We agree with our words, yet regret how we approach. At least, I do.

I think I should probably stop posting things while I am at work. I feel way too fervent about things here, when in reality I am a very calm person. :fluffle:

I think I should probably stop posting things while I am at work. I feel way too fervent about things here, when in reality I am a very calm person. :fluffle:
I know what you mean....coffee does strange things to my posts...

Koshkaboo & Sinuhue, I'm glad to see you two have made up over this incident. The General forum is designed for debates, not fights.

Sinuhue, you cited too much coffee as a cause for your irritability. I'd advise you not to drink so much. National Geographic advises us that too much caffeine causes sleeplessness, addiction, anger, and all sorts of other problems.

Personally, I never drink the stuff. For caffeine, I go with Green Tea. :)

But this is really thread hijacking, so I ought to get out of this thread. 'Bye.

Sinuhue, you cited too much coffee as a cause for your irritability. I'd advise you not to drink so much.
Na. Coffee drinking is just an excuse. I can't really blame anything but my own sense of outrage and yearning for clarity in myself and others:) And I can't cut down on THAT....

Na. Coffee drinking is just an excuse. I can't really blame anything but my own sense of outrage and yearning for clarity in myself and others:) And I can't cut down on THAT....Oh well. Time for Plan B. OUTLAW STARBUCKS!