NationStates Jolt Archive

It seems that the islamofascist segment of the Iraq insurgency is experiencing fatigue, low morale, and other problems.
www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/05/03/iraq.main/index.html

as opposed the the yankofascist occupiers?

That would be good news, assuming that it's true.

As to wether or not it's true.... I'm hopeful, but I'm not going to accept this carte blanche.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

You never know if this stuff is the work of US military psy-ops. They put out stuff like this all the time.

Logistically, the insurgents have a limited time in which to achieve their goals.

They must also be able to effect sufficient casualties on either the Iraqi military or US military to achieve a result.

In the case of casualties on the Iraqi military, they must also possess sufficient military strength to seize power.

In the case of casualties on the US military, they must possess the ability to cause at least 8 times as many casualties as they are causing now - because that's where the balance was in Vietnam that made Americans want their troops out NOW.

Neither is possible by the insurgents at this time. They can be a drain on resources, and make life miserable for their own supporters (they are acting mostly in their own neighborhoods).

Until the US takes far more casualties per day, the insurgents are going to be ground down slowly.

Logistically, the insurgents have a limited time in which to achieve their goals.

They must also be able to effect sufficient casualties on either the Iraqi military or US military to achieve a result.

In the case of casualties on the Iraqi military, they must also possess sufficient military strength to seize power.

In the case of casualties on the US military, they must possess the ability to cause at least 8 times as many casualties as they are causing now - because that's where the balance was in Vietnam that made Americans want their troops out NOW.

Neither is possible by the insurgents at this time. They can be a drain on resources, and make life miserable for their own supporters (they are acting mostly in their own neighborhoods).

Until the US takes far more casualties per day, the insurgents are going to be ground down slowly.


They don't need to do any of those things. They just need to make it so that people don't see the Americans being able to keep order. People accept rulers who are able to keep rebellions in check, however unpleasant they are. If rebels keep revolting then people switch from blaming the rebels (well they're rebels, that's what they do) and they switch to blaming the government.

They don't need to do any of those things. They just need to make it so that people don't see the Americans being able to keep order. People accept rulers who are able to keep rebellions in check, however unpleasant they are. If rebels keep revolting then people switch from blaming the rebels (well they're rebels, that's what they do) and they switch to blaming the government.
It's probable that the US forces will be leaving in about a year.

I think they wouldn't be planning to do that if they didn't think the insurgents were weakening.

The rebellion seems to be confined to the Sunni triangle, and the Sunnis are the ones who are getting the shaft politically.

Islamofascist... I love that word... islamofascist... :D

as opposed the the yankofascist occupiers?
Yeah, I can see how you'd get us confused. We're very similar except for a few minor and easily overlooked differences.

1 Americans have installed a democratically elected government. Islamofascists beleive that the only legitimate form of government is the Koran Hadith and Sharia. Human laws are an abomination because they challenge god's laws.

2 The American Judicial system punishes rapists. The Islamofascists favor the Taliban's system that stones to death women who've been raped.

3 Americans beleive that all people should be treated equally regardless of religion. Islamofascists want to treat "People of the Book" as second class citizens, and other religions as non-humans entirely, unless they convert to a brutal and repressive form of Islam, of course.

Yeah, I can see how you'd get us confused. We're very similar except for a few minor and easily overlooked differences.

1 Americans have installed a democratically elected government. Islamofascists beleive that the only legitimate form of government is the Koran Hadith and Sharia. Human laws are an abomination because they challenge god's laws.

2 The American Judicial system punishes rapists. The Islamofascists favor the Taliban's system that stones to death women who've been raped.

3 Americans beleive that all people should be treated equally regardless of religion. Islamofascists want to treat "People of the Book" as second class citizens, and other religions as non-humans entirely, unless they convert to a brutal and repressive form of Islam, of course.

And to think this only scratches the surface.

- The Bush Administration believes gays and lesbians shouldn't be allowed to get married or serve openly in the military.
- Islamofascists believe gays and lesbians shouldn't be allowed to live.


- The Bush Administration is indifferent towards the demands of feminists and socially progressive pressure
- Islamofascists kill them


- The Bush Administration is against abortion save for the most extreme cricumstances.
- Islamofascists agree, abortion is sooo last prophecy. Female circumcision (ie genital mutilation) is the "in" thing these days, an lets face it, leaves so much more room for creativity.


- The Bush Administration, by violent means, aims to impose democracy on the Middle East.
- Islamofascists, by even more violent means wish to impose jihad and sharia law on the West.

- I hate Bush
- I hate political Islam even more.

I just wanted to thank this entire thread so far for saying "Islamofascists" instead of "Muslims". It's nice to see folks finally beginning to realize that these monsters are not Muslim.

Anyway, that said, I will respond to the thread itself:

Meh ... don't worry ... someone always comes along and gives them women, money, and booze and they'll be recharged yet again. Or, a new crop of uneducated teenage boys will be brainwashed and recruited to blow up buses and cafes.

Any news on the insurgents who aren't Islamofascists or are we still pretending they don't exist?

Any news on the insurgents who aren't Islamofascists or are we still pretending they don't exist?

You mean the Patriots...naaaaaaaaa

Any news on the insurgents who aren't Islamofascists or are we still pretending they don't exist?
I haven't read anything about them today.

That would be good news, assuming that it's true.

As to wether or not it's true.... I'm hopeful, but I'm not going to accept this carte blanche.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Aye. It's a bit hard to get an islamofascist (that's what we're calling them now??) organization to accuratly give out such statistics. Same goes for our own troops, both fatigue-wise and reporting-the-fatigue-of-the-enemy-wise.

It is hard to believe a bunch as determined as those guys who do not fear death would let fatigue get them down that easily.

I agree with most of the poeple in this thread.

But who came up with the word "Islamofascists"? It's so stupid. Their extreme theocratic Muslim ideology has little relation to that of 1920s Mussolini.

In the case of casualties on the Iraqi military, they must also possess sufficient military strength to seize power.

Nah they just need superior strategy and stamina. Size and technology may help but they are not the determining factor.

A change in tactics and a move towards political legitimacy would add a huge new dimension to this whole thing.

I agree with most of the poeple in this thread.

But who came up with the word "Islamofascists"? It's so stupid. Their extreme theocratic Muslim ideology has little relation to that of 1920s Mussolini.

But it is oh so catchy and good with chili sauce.

Any news on the insurgents who aren't Islamofascists or are we still pretending they don't exist?

Mixed bag. The news on them goes either way; some are enraged over lack of political power in the new government. Others have grown weary of the fighting and are distrubed by the methods of the other insurgents.

There are reports of Mosques being used as focal points for expressing political beliefs, but I've heard of nothing regarding prominent Sunnis actually being considered for high positions. That's the bad news; they aren't getting political voices within the government, we all know that means they may try to get political say on the street.

However there are also reporst of dissention within the insurgent groups, with many citing the rather extreme tactics against the Iraqi citizenry. It would likely only take a few Sunni civilians getting killed in bombings to set the insurgency against itself. Any loss of Sunni life that cannot be blamed on US troops could be seen as the potential for the insurgency to lose focus.

As to wether or not it's true.... I'm hopeful, but I'm not going to accept this carte blanche.



'I'm not going to accept this as giving me free authority over my own actions'?

Is carte blanche really the phrase you were looking for?

But who came up with the word "Islamofascists"? It's so stupid. Their extreme theocratic Muslim ideology has little relation to that of 1920s Mussolini.

At a random guess the same people responsible for the term 'feminazis' - those seeking to discredit their political opponents by drawing spurious historical parallels?

"Islamofascist" is a retarded term made up by intellectually deficient conservative commentators like Anne Coulter. It's drawing a comparison with two movements that are similar only in adherence to violence and intolerance. It would be the equivalent of calling the Soviets communobonapartists or something equally stupid. The idea of a bunch of bearded radicals in Syria praising Mussolini and the corporatist state is laughable. Anyone who knows anything about fascists or muslim extremists (I don't claim to be an expert, but I do watch CNN and have the internet.) Finally, it's hard to imagine republican politicians cheering on Osama the way they did Benito.

Finally, it's hard to imagine republican politicians cheering on Osama the way they did Benito.

Ah, you just need to have a quick look back at the years 1979-1989 then if you think that is the case.

It seems that the islamofascist segment of the Iraq insurgency is experiencing fatigue, low morale, and other problems.
www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/05/03/iraq.main/index.html
I guess we can look forward to a CNN sponsored morale tour with Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Barbara Streisand, and a lot of the other Hollywood whiners. That ought to cheer up the poor demoralized terrorists.

"Islamofascist" is a retarded term made up by intellectually deficient conservative commentators like Anne Coulter. It's drawing a comparison with two movements that are similar only in adherence to violence and intolerance. It would be the equivalent of calling the Soviets communobonapartists or something equally stupid. The idea of a bunch of bearded radicals in Syria praising Mussolini and the corporatist state is laughable. Anyone who knows anything about fascists or muslim extremists (I don't claim to be an expert, but I do watch CNN and have the internet.) Finally, it's hard to imagine republican politicians cheering on Osama the way they did Benito.

Don't you find it unusual that your eliminations would smell like patchouli?

Ah, you just need to have a quick look back at the years 1979-1989 then if you think that is the case.

They weren't exactly cheering them on. Giving them a pat on the back for kicking some commie butt? Yes!

Any news on the insurgents who aren't Islamofascists or are we still pretending they don't exist?
You mean the members of the Republican Guard and other Saddam supporters that didnt get killed or captured in the first week or so?

I guess we can look forward to a CNN sponsored morale tour with Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Barbara Streisand, and a lot of the other Hollywood whiners. That ought to cheer up the poor demoralized terrorists.

All of those pro-gay rights, pro-gun control, pro-choice celebrities sure have a lot in common with the Taliban. There's only one cabal of religious extremists led by an eccentric millionaire who is a poor public speaker in the US, and that's the Republican Party. The GOP and the terrorists deserve each other; I just wish they didn't let innocent people get in the way.

Don't you find it unusual that your eliminations would smell like patchouli?

Touche. I wish I'd voted for Bush. You convinced me.

Hmm trying to find out the diffrence:

Christianfascists want to take over the world and force everyone to be christian and pave the way for Jesus's second comming. Islamicfascists want to take over the world and force everyone to become a muslim

Guess that's why I became a Buddhist :)

Help Me Jebus!!!!!!- Homer Simpson

They weren't exactly cheering them on. Giving them a pat on the back for kicking some commie butt? Yes!

67,00 tons of weapons a year, training by the CIA and intelligence from the various American agencies, all authorised by Reagan were just a 'pat on the back'?

67,00 tons of weapons a year, training by the CIA and intelligence from the various American agencies, all authorised by Reagan were just a 'pat on the back'?

Yes, in the scheme of things it was. 67,000 tons ain't that much doll!

67,00 tons of weapons a year, training by the CIA and intelligence from the various American agencies, all authorised by Reagan were just a 'pat on the back'?
well alot of it was packing material and such.

Touche. I wish I'd voted for Bush. You convinced me.


You should have. Says alot about your character when you consistantly pick a loser.

Yes, in the scheme of things it was. 67,000 tons ain't that much doll!

It works out at about seven million AK47s a year (allowing equal weight for packing as each weapon)...

You should have. Says alot about your character when you consistantly pick a loser.
i've never voted for a winner in the presidential elections since 88

It works out at about seven million AK47s a year (allowing equal weight for packing as each weapon)...
what about the environmental effect of all those styrofoam peanuts and the delicate eco system of afghanistan

You should have. Says alot about your character when you consistantly pick a loser.

No matter how many elections he wins, daddy's boy will always be a loser in my book. I didn't pick John Kerry, I would've voted for Sonic the Hedgehog over the current bad-joke-in-chief. I hate John Kerry. If he were president today, I'd be giving him almost as hard a time as I give dubya, but I'd take solace in the fact that that dangerous, embarassing, failure of a president was no longer sullying our nation's reputation.

Plenty of Germans voted for the winner in the 20s. Think they regretted it?

67,00 tons of weapons a year, training by the CIA and intelligence from the various American agencies, all authorised by Reagan were just a 'pat on the back'?
So, we shouldn't have supported the Afghani resistance against the invading Soviets?

No matter how many elections he wins, daddy's boy will always be a loser in my book. I didn't pick John Kerry, I would've voted for Sonic the Hedgehog over the current bad-joke-in-chief. I hate John Kerry. If he were president today, I'd be giving him almost as hard a time as I give dubya, but I'd take solace in the fact that that dangerous, embarassing, failure of a president was no longer sullying our nation's reputation.

Plenty of Germans voted for the winner in the 20s. Think they regretted it?


Don't you mean the 30's. Or are you talking about histories greatest monster, Hindenberg?

Plenty of Germans voted for the winner in the 20s. Think they regretted it?

Which election was that? I seem to recall hitler being defeated in 1932 by hindenburg 53% to 37%. Hitler never made it to the chancellory till january 30th of 1933. Dont know what elections you were talking about. i really enjoy it when people compare bush to hitler because its very ignorant.

They brought him into a coalition government and when Hindenberg died, he took over as I recall. The fact that a few years later he was undisputed ruler of Germany makes him "the winner" in any respect.

So, we shouldn't have supported the Afghani resistance against the invading Soviets?

That's not the point I'm making here: first it was claimed...

Finally, it's hard to imagine republican politicians cheering on Osama the way they did Benito.

..and then when I pointed out that they had been cheering on him and his ilk during the 80s, I got the response...

They weren't exactly cheering them on. Giving them a pat on the back for kicking some commie butt? Yes!

...which is understating the support they were given by the USA, it wsn't a case of a merely nominal encouragement, but rather bankrolled by the US political establishment.

So, we shouldn't have supported the Afghani resistance against the invading Soviets?
in retrospect probably not, since it cost 3000 americans their lives when the leadership of the foriegn contigent of the afghan resistance sent 19 of their followers to smash passenger jets into american landmarks.

in retrospect probably not, since it cost 3000 americans their lives when the leadership of the foriegn contigent of the afghan resistance sent 19 of their followers to smash passenger jets into american landmarks.

..but those 3,000 died fighting communism...

I'm glad islamofascist are dying. I hope they die by the hundreds. The US military should only continue its attacks, and be more brutal and agressive then before. And to the prick that compared the US to thoes Islam radicals, hey..we are over there dying for your right to say stuff like that. Be greatful you dont live in Iran where they'd cut your lips off for saying that stuff. I dont care if you love or hate the president's policy, but never, ever compare America to Islamofascists.

My Country, Right or Wrong

I'm glad islamofascist are dying. I hope they die by the hundreds. The US military should only continue its attacks, and be more brutal and agressive then before. And to the prick that compared the US to thoes Islam radicals, hey..we are over there dying for your right to say stuff like that. Be greatful you dont live in Iran where they'd cut your lips off for saying that stuff. I dont care if you love or hate the president's policy, but never, ever compare America to Islamofascists.

My Country, Right or Wrong

I love this country, which is why I hate the president. I didn't compare AMERICA to any "islamofascists" I compared the crooks that run America to them, and if you can't tell the difference, then you don't understand democracy.

And to the prick that compared the US to thoes Islam radicals, hey..we are over there dying for your right to say stuff like that.


Eh? You invaded Iraq on what now appears to be the spurious pretext of their possession of WMDs in contravention of UN declarations following the First Gulf War. That has very little to do with freedom of speech, no?

Be greatful you dont live in Iran where they'd cut your lips off for saying that stuff.

I somehow doubt that comparing the US to Islamic radicals is going to meet a particularly hostile response in Iran.


I dont care if you love or hate the president's policy, but never, ever compare America to Islamofascists.

Hang on here, mere sentences ago you were claiming that soldiers were dying for his right to say such things. So are you now saying that he has a right to say it, but must never say it?

My Country, Right or Wrong

How exactly is this kind of blind faith that you are displaying with such a slogan not likely to invite comparison to the fundamentalists that you appear to dislike so much?

I'm glad islamofascist are dying. I hope they die by the hundreds. The US military should only continue its attacks, and be more brutal and agressive then before. And to the prick that compared the US to thoes Islam radicals, hey..we are over there dying for your right to say stuff like that. Be greatful you dont live in Iran where they'd cut your lips off for saying that stuff. I dont care if you love or hate the president's policy, but never, ever compare America to Islamofascists.

My Country, Right or Wrong

Um, no, they're not dying for anyone's right to say stuff. They're dying for oil. Both versions of the Iraq war plan state it pretty much outright. The only difference between the military's war plan and the oil industry's war plan is that the military wanted to use Iraqi oil to flood the market and undermine OPEC and the oil companies wanted to privatize the oil ministry.

You're right in that the Islamic rebels are not like the US is now. They're like the US was back in the days that we were trying to break free of the British empire. Now the Moslems are trying to break free of the American empire.