NationStates Jolt Archive

I love System of a Down's BYOB, it's very catchy, however they're so wrong in the lyric "why do they always send the poor?" (Ofcourse they also smoke crack so I can't give them too much credit lol.)

But people seem to have this idea that it's a social battle of the poor versus the rich, like we're fricking Robin Hood or something. And it's not.

Anything the rich want the rich can have. The rich don't care what you think of them and they got better things to do then hassle you like inflate thier ego. Rich aint the tabbaco industry or the oil companies, thier Jennifer Lopez and the Trumps.

The poor are not constantly being raped by our goverment. Yes thier life sucks but that's cause thier poor! I'm not going to say they deserve it, but life screws each of us over how it sees fit, if anything the goverment feels sorry for them and gives free dental and other health services. I should know, I'm getting them.

No, the real victims here are upper and lower middle-class citizens.

Upper middle class want thier children to have a bright future so fund thier college intuition, however money is a very unreliable thing, so they work all thier lives never knowing enjoyment struggeling just to be "succesful" yet failing at life as a whole.

Lower middle class make too much to get help from the goverment but not nearly enough to live comfortably. So money is always tight, and things look grim ahead.

These two family's children are more likely to go to war then poor/rich bitch because lower middle class teens want to make something of themselves and think honor and pride when they think military, and alot of upper middle class yuppy kids just want the free college. (Nothing is free, obviously you didn't study hard enough boy.)

There's your answer people. So the next time you think America's economic war giveup that ignorant rob from the rich and give to the poor routine and think of the five man color wheel.

Red>Poor.
Black>Goverment.
Blue>Rich.
Upper middle class>White.
Lower middle class>Green.

Sorry to make this topic a little bit more unserious meationing magic the gathering but hey it works and really I can't stand being all uptight serious.

"Their, they're and there".

There. That was annoying. Almost made me think America's real problem was illiteracy (which is sadly closer to the truth than you think).

I love System of a Down's BYOB, it's very catchy, however they're so wrong in the lyric "why do they always send the poor?" (Ofcourse they also smoke crack so I can't give them too much credit lol.)

But people seem to have this idea that it's a social battle of the poor versus the rich, like we're fricking Robin Hood or something. And it's not.

Anything the rich want the rich can have. The rich don't care what you think of them and they got better things to do then hassle you like inflate thier ego. Rich aint the tabbaco industry or the oil companies, thier Jennifer Lopez and the Trumps.

The poor are not constantly being raped by our goverment. Yes thier life sucks but that's cause thier poor! I'm not going to say they deserve it, but life screws each of us over how it sees fit, if anything the goverment feels sorry for them and gives free dental and other health services. I should know, I'm getting them.

No, the real victims here are upper and lower middle-class citizens.

Upper middle class want thier children to have a bright future so fund thier college intuition, however money is a very unreliable thing, so they work all thier lives never knowing enjoyment struggeling just to be "succesful" yet failing at life as a whole.

Lower middle class make too much to get help from the goverment but not nearly enough to live comfortably. So money is always tight, and things look grim ahead.

These two family's children are more likely to go to war then poor/rich bitch because lower middle class teens want to make something of themselves and think honor and pride when they think military, and alot of upper middle class yuppy kids just want the free college. (Nothing is free, obviously you didn't study hard enough boy.)

Sorry to make this topic a little bit more unserious meationing magic the gathering but hey it works and really I can't stand being all uptight serious.
[ applauds ]

The destruction of the US manufacturing base and laws that allow companies to deter unions have severely damaged the middle class. Used to be that one could get a factory job and make enough money to take good care of his family. Now those jobs just aren't there, and if by some miracle you do happen to find one you're probably not going to earn very much. Maybe just enough to keep you out of poverty.

like so many American programs that were instituted to deal with a specific problem at a specific time in our history, unions have simply outworn their welcome.

back in the early 20th century, factories were terrible places for people to work... wages and hours sucked, benefits were nil, etc.

Along came unions to fight for workers' rights, and workers' rights increased dramatically: better pay, better benefits, the 40-hour work week, etc.

well we still have unions... and instead of really helping the worker, their primary action nowadays seems to be simply to gum up the wheels of commerce with strikes. Employees are paid fairly well and get (generally) good benefits and the 40-hour week is law... but the unions can't leave well enough alone.

When a company has to shut down production for a month due to a strike, THEY LOSE MONEY. How does this possibly help the worker?

like so many American programs that were instituted to deal with a specific problem at a specific time in our history, unions have simply outworn their welcome.

back in the early 20th century, factories were terrible places for people to work... wages and hours sucked, benefits were nil, etc.

Along came unions to fight for workers' rights, and workers' rights increased dramatically: better pay, better benefits, the 40-hour work week, etc.

well we still have unions... and instead of really helping the worker, their primary action nowadays seems to be simply to gum up the wheels of commerce with strikes. Employees are paid fairly well and get (generally) good benefits and the 40-hour week is law... but the unions can't leave well enough alone.

When a company has to shut down production for a month due to a strike, THEY LOSE MONEY. How does this possibly help the worker?
Real wages have declined. Benefits are being reduced in many workplaces. Unions have lost much of their power, and workers find it harder and harder to unionize.

One of my best friends works for US Air. He's in a union. All the employees were asked to take big wage cuts by management. Management then voted themselves a 4% raise followed shortly after by a 5% cut in pay. While workers saw their pay cut by double digit percentages, a company in financial hot water and with the most bloated management structure in the industry saw fit to cut management's pay by only 1%

Does that sound like union corruption to you? It sounds like corporate greed to me.

The destruction of the US manufacturing base and laws that allow companies to deter unions have severely damaged the middle class. Used to be that one could get a factory job and make enough money to take good care of his family. Now those jobs just aren't there, and if by some miracle you do happen to find one you're probably not going to earn very much. Maybe just enough to keep you out of poverty.

The reason that the factory jobs are gone is because we are no longer in an industrial economy. Manufacturing jobs have been declining in the US (I assume similar for Europe) since the 70's. In the post-industrial economy, it's services and information that drive the economy, not manufacturing.

The reason that the factory jobs are gone is because we are no longer in an industrial economy. Manufacturing jobs have been declining in the US (I assume similar for Europe) since the 70's. In the post-industrial economy, it's services and information that drive the economy, not manufacturing.
So I guess the middle class is just fucked.

So I guess the middle class is just fucked.

No, the middle class are simply finding jobs in other sectors. It just won't happen overnight.

No, the middle class are simply finding jobs in other sectors. It just won't happen overnight.
Some are lucky enough to find those jobs. Many others are settling for jobs that pay much less.

So I guess the middle class is just fucked.

Not quite. The trend lately is to have jobs which require more training and education, a good portion of which isn't or can't be given by the standard schools and universities. Unions would be best off changing to training people for these jobs rather than focusing so much on wages and benefits.

"Their, they're and there".

There. That was annoying. Almost made me think America's real problem was illiteracy (which is sadly closer to the truth than you think).

Don't forget "intuition" should be tuition and "meationing" should be "mentioning."

And that is a real problem in America. I know plenty of fellow college students that can't speak/write correctly to save their soul, and I have to proofread their papers. Its painful.

The reason that the factory jobs are gone is because we are no longer in an industrial economy. Manufacturing jobs have been declining in the US (I assume similar for Europe) since the 70's. In the post-industrial economy, it's services and information that drive the economy, not manufacturing.We're no longer a manufacturing nation because our laws have permitted manufacturers to move overseas where they don't have to pay fair wages, provide safe work places, handle the industrial wastes responsibly and have decent work hours. These policies were not enacted by faceless bureaucrats but by our elected officials. And the services and information jobs are moving overseas, too, added by computers, faxes and email. What I can never figure out is why, in a nation where people can vote, they either don't or they vote against their own best interests. And they don't lobby their elected officials either except for stupidass "morality" garbage that doesn't really affect the quality of life the way economics, health care and pension/social security do.

the line why do they always send the poor is there because...well...it's true. The vast majority of our armed forces come from lower middle and lower class families. And it makes sense. They train you for a job and will pay for college, along with other GI benefits...However, the wealthy families rarely have children at war. When army recruiters were asked which they would prefer, unlimited ad budget or to have W's girls enlist, nearly all said the later.

We're no longer a manufacturing nation because our laws have permitted manufacturers to move overseas where they don't have to pay fair wages, provide safe work places, handle the industrial wastes responsibly and have decent work hours. These policies were not enacted by faceless bureaucrats but by our elected officials. And the services and information jobs are moving overseas, too, added by computers, faxes and email. What I can never figure out is why, in a nation where people can vote, they either don't or they vote against their own best interests. And they don't lobby their elected officials either except for stupidass "morality" garbage that doesn't really affect the quality of life the way economics, health care and pension/social security do.
To be fair to our elected officials they were bribed quite well with campaign contributions from fatcat corporations to allow our industries to go overseas. Election campaigns aren't cheap you know. Money talks, that patriotic bullshit walks.

We're no longer a manufacturing nation because our laws have permitted manufacturers to move overseas where they don't have to pay fair wages, provide safe work places, handle the industrial wastes responsibly and have decent work hours. These policies were not enacted by faceless bureaucrats but by our elected officials. And the services and information jobs are moving overseas, too, added by computers, faxes and email. What I can never figure out is why, in a nation where people can vote, they either don't or they vote against their own best interests. And they don't lobby their elected officials either except for stupidass "morality" garbage that doesn't really affect the quality of life the way economics, health care and pension/social security do.
To be fair to our elected officials they were bribed quite well with campaign contributions from fatcat corporations to allow our industries to go overseas. Election campaigns aren't cheap you know. Money talks, that patriotic bullshit walks.

And look at those tax cuts! Like the Estate Tax, that one was KILLING me! Don't forget the pennies I saved with the Dividend Tax! Pennies=Instant Win!

To be fair to our elected officials they were bribed quite well with campaign contributions from fatcat corporations to allow our industries to go overseas. Election campaigns aren't cheap you know. Money talks, that patriotic bullshit walks.Money only talks because people don't vote or vote against their best interests. The last I saw, something like 5% of the people have 50% or more of the wealth. That means there are a lot of us not-so-wealthy types. If we would follow our legislators' actions and tell them before they voted what we thought and voted them out of office if they acted against we-the-people, we wouldn't have this problem. But people are so lazy they just vote on name recognition -- hence, the fact that incumbents usually are re-elected even when they screw us over.

the middle class in america is largely a myth. it was almost always a myth, but in so far as it actually exists anymore it is mostly related to the sectors of the working class with the best credit rating (and the largest amount of credit card debt) which is used to maintain the appearance of affluence.

When a company has to shut down production for a month due to a strike, THEY LOSE MONEY. How does this possibly help the worker?

it makes the company face economic consequences for their treatment of workers.

The reason that the factory jobs are gone is because we are no longer in an industrial economy. Manufacturing jobs have been declining in the US (I assume similar for Europe) since the 70's. In the post-industrial economy, it's services and information that drive the economy, not manufacturing.

That sounded pretty good in the 80s when our cars came from Japan and places like Flint and Detroit were going under, but the economy was building up elsewhere with white collar jobs, but it rings hollow now. Make a tech support call. Ten years ago, you would've been connected to somewhere on the west coast, now you're calling Bangalore. Japan still makes our cars, they also make high tech stuff that used to be made in the US. China makes anything that they can teach slaves to assemble and now own most of our national debt. If things keep up the way they are, we're all going to be working at Walmart or McDonald's serving our fellow proles, or if we're really lucky, shining a CEO's dress shoes for a big meeting with his Chinese factory managers.