NationStates Jolt Archive

Linky (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/new%20pope%20hits%20out%20at%20harry%20potter%20books)

"It is good that you explain the facts of Harry Potter, because this is a subtle seduction, which has deeply unnoticed and direct effects in undermining the soul of Christianity before it can really grow properly."

War, disease, and famine are abound in the world, but we know who the REAL enemy is. Good thing the new Pope has already gotten his priorities straight.

Anyone here think that children's books are destroying the world?

Like I didn't see that coming from a mile away...

*burns books*

BURN, BURN! EVIL! IT POLLUTES MINDS!! CORRUPTS HUMANITY!

Sorry. Just burning bibles here. :D

*burns books*

BURN, BURN! EVIL! IT POLLUTES MINDS!! CORRUPTS HUMANITY!

Sorry. Just burning bibles here. :D
Hey!!!!
*sacrifices Kanabia to the vengful god of B&N publishing inc.*

"Before it can really grow properly"?

just shy of twenty centuries, a billion followers, and a schism with the rest of the world, and you're worried about it GROWING PROPERLY?

*sigh* I remember the days when what the Pope said made at least vague pretenses toward sense.

*burns books*

BURN, BURN! EVIL! IT POLLUTES MINDS!! CORRUPTS HUMANITY!

Sorry. Just burning bibles here. :D

*joins*

I'll put some bibles in hotel toilets!

Hey!!!!
*sacrifices Kanabia to the vengful god of B&N publishing inc.*

*throws Branin on bonfire*

:p

This is only the first of loads and loads of similar statements! I mean, look at the man they chose! I must admit, I don't quite see God's influence in the choice of his "middle man"... :(

*throws Branin on bonfire*

:p
Ow... hot.... damn.... ouch, I'm gonna kill you......

*hums to self*Jesus said love everyone......

Damn.....

*leaps of and hugs Kanabia (while still burning)*

Ow... hot.... damn.... ouch, I'm gonna kill you......

*hums to self*Jesus said love everyone......

Damn.....

*leaps of and hugs Kanabia (while still burning)*

Didn't know this thread would turn into a FLAME-war.

...

*dies*

Ow... hot.... damn.... ouch, I'm gonna kill you......

*hums to self*Jesus said love everyone......

Damn.....

*leaps of and hugs Kanabia (while still burning)*

*is immune*

HA! And people gave me odd looks when I told them I was wearing asbestos clothes!!! Mwahahahaha! *cough*

*is immune*

HA! And people gave me odd looks when I told them I was wearing asbestos clothes!!! Mwahahahaha! *cough*
Asbestos. Damn, know I'm gonna get cancer.

*relizes he is still on fire*

*dies*

Linky (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/new%20pope%20hits%20out%20at%20harry%20potter%20books)



War, disease, and famine are abound in the world, but we know who the REAL enemy is. Good thing the new Pope has already gotten his priorities straight.

Anyone here think that children's books are destroying the world?


Ok...

He's the pope...

So don't expect anything clever, intelligent or fitting into the 21st century from him.

Potter, so they say
Is the root of all evil today

*burns books*

BURN, BURN! EVIL! IT POLLUTES MINDS!! CORRUPTS HUMANITY!

Sorry. Just burning bibles here. :D

Did someone mention book burning? (http://www.religioustolerance.org/potter2.htm)

I dunno -- when I see a German on a balcony getting greeted by enthusiastic cheers, I start to get a little nervous. When he starts talking about how some books are bad...well, I get more nervous.

Incidentally, I can guarantee you that if Rowling's Potter books were unsuccessful, you'd be hearing none of this. That's kind of a "duh", but think about it. Unpopular stuff that slips under the radar (like White Supremacists calling their organizations "churches" and claiming that God and Jesus support ethnic cleansing) needs a hell of a lot more monitoring than the Gryffindor quidditch team (oh! what a give-away!).

If Potter's evil, then I'll know
Because the Pope has told me so
Quiddich positions, left and right
Inquisitions, day and night

I dunno -- when I see a German on a balcony getting greeted by enthusiastic cheers, I start to get a little nervous. When he starts talking about how some books are bad...well, I get more nervous.

:fluffle:

Seriously though, this Pope needs to get his priorities straight, because if this is anywhere near the top of his agenda, some rabid Harry Potter fan just might go off the deep end, and then...well... :sniper:

:eek:

I dunno -- when I see a German on a balcony getting greeted by enthusiastic cheers, I start to get a little nervous. When he starts talking about how some books are bad...well, I get more nervous.

Incidentally, I can guarantee you that if Rowling's Potter books were unsuccessful, you'd be hearing none of this. That's kind of a "duh", but think about it. Unpopular stuff that slips under the radar (like White Supremacists calling their organizations "churches" and claiming that God and Jesus support ethnic cleansing) needs a hell of a lot more monitoring than the Gryffindor quidditch team (oh! what a give-away!).
:p :p :p
I hadn't spotted that .....funny in a scarey way.

Don't they get tax relief as "churches"? That's why the US has "Pagan" churches. An oxymoron if ever there was one.

Still reading HP turned me into a newt. So there.

I got better!

Maybe this Pope thinks he needs more air-time.

--snip--
Still reading HP turned me into a newt. So there.

[TERRY JONES AS SIR BEDEVERE]
A newt?
[/TERRY JONES AS SIR BEDEVERE]

Maybe this Pope thinks he needs more air-time.


Air-head, air-time. Yeah. Makes sense.

I dunno -- when I see a German on a balcony getting greeted by enthusiastic cheers, I start to get a little nervous. When he starts talking about how some books are bad...well, I get more nervous.

Relax dude! Colonels are Cardinals are a bit diffrent. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/img/2005/ep08/ratklink.jpg

I got better!

You couldn't have waited just one more minute?!? :)

Relax dude! Colonels are Cardinals are a bit diffrent. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/img/2005/ep08/ratklink.jpg

[WERNER KLEMPERER]

Hogaaaaaann!!

[/WERNER KLEMPERER]

So...that's where that issue came from...

You couldn't have waited just one more minute?!? :)
Timing was never my strong point.
The question "premature for who exactly?" comes to mind :p

And Colonels are different from cardinals only in their uniforms. They both have hoards of unquestioning followers.
*hit self in head* " always follow link before typing"

:fluffle:

Seriously though, this Pope needs to get his priorities straight, because if this is anywhere near the top of his agenda, some rabid Harry Potter fan just might go off the deep end, and then...well... :sniper:

:eek:

You realize his statements were made over 2 years ago before he was pope right?

if Harry Potter is evil (while I think the character is not evil, just a pussy with no talent, Gandalf would so own his ass), what about Tolkien's works?

I mean... Sauron? Morgoth? Balrogs?

Relax dude! Colonels are Cardinals are a bit diffrent. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/img/2005/ep08/ratklink.jpg
I...could...not....stop....laughing....:D :D

Has the pope actually read the books? It seems to me that none of the people who criticize it have actually read them. But I expected no less from the Nazi pope. He made a speech about how homosexuals are corrupting our society by going around wearing funny clothes. He was wearing a floor-length red dress at the time.

In 11th grade I wrote an anti-anti-Harry Potter pamphlet. It started as an English assignment, but some nut got ahold of it, copied it, and sent it around school saying that it was the work of the devil. :headbang: I guess it's a good thing I wrote under a pen-name, eh?

Originally posted by LazyHippies

You realize his statements were made over 2 years ago before he was pope right?

Actually, I didn't. The linked article gives no time reference for when the statement was made, and the article itself is dated late last month.

Besides, I was being facetious. ;)

I think the Pope and the overly-religious youth of America need to join forces and start a new group. Perhaps, group therapy?

I'm curious how long it'll take for those ridiculous Swiss Guards to goose step and talk German and greet the pope with "Heil Benedikt"

All I can say is, if the Pope threw off his robes (with clothes underneath, for Pete's sake) and jumped off of a Vatican balcony, grabbed onto one of those random banners and slid to the ground, I'd convert. And that's just about the ONLY way I'd convert.

if Harry Potter is evil (while I think the character is not evil, just a pussy with no talent, Gandalf would so own his ass), what about Tolkien's works?

I mean... Sauron? Morgoth? Balrogs?

Gandalf is God. No worries there.

Hell, im sure they could probally mark star wars as the work of the devil if they tried hard enough.


But then again, im pretty sure those glasses make potter look like a homosexual...

And everyone knows that red hair is the work of the devil (lookin at you Ron Weasley...).

Gandalf is God. No worries there.

Amen to that!!

As for the Pope, I remember a slogan on a t-shirt i saw the other day :

"Jesus loves you, but everybody else thinks you are an asshole!" :sniper:

I think the Pope and the overly-religious youth of America need to join forces and start a new group. Perhaps, group therapy?

Wait -- haven't the Catholic priests already tried that tactic? Repressed memory and lawsuits, anyone?

Wait -- haven't the Catholic priests already tried that tactic? Repressed memory and lawsuits, anyone?

It's all comming back to me now, you in woods with a hoods... :p

Ok, so here I am, a Roman Catholic by birth alone, and I'm reading the paper one morning before college and I spy the face of someone I would describe as a "clueless fool" and I laugh, only to find, above his name, "POPE BENEDICT XVI"!!!!!!!

So this is it, huh folks? After much debate, they give us THIS ONE?!

But I thought "I'll give him a chance..."

...no point. Any man, woman or child who is more concerned with the Evils f Harry Potter, and is moronic enough to castigate those who would dress funny whilst wearing a red dress should NEVER been taking seriously, EVER!!!

Maybe I should be Pope?

Pope Steven the first...

"Before it can really grow properly"?

just shy of twenty centuries, a billion followers, and a schism with the rest of the world, and you're worried about it GROWING PROPERLY?

*sigh* I remember the days when what the Pope said made at least vague pretenses toward sense.

I think he's referring to the growth of the child's mind, and the way that exposing children to any media not approved by the church restricts the church's ability to brainwash them before they're old enough to make up their own minds.

Oh who cares??! ITS HARRY POTTER! anyone who condems it is doing good, even if the person who condems it resembles that emperer guy from star wars

if Harry Potter is evil (while I think the character is not evil, just a pussy with no talent, Gandalf would so own his ass), what about Tolkien's works?

I mean... Sauron? Morgoth? Balrogs?

Tolkien was a devout Catholic and quite a bit of his books show this fairly well - there is the polarisation of good and evil and the Ring is pretty much the symbol of sin and temptation.

Oh who cares??! ITS HARRY POTTER! anyone who condems it is doing good, even if the person who condems it resembles that emperer guy from star wars

It may not be great literature, but pretty much anything which gets large numbers of kids reading who would otherwise be watching TV is probably a good thing.

Somehow I think Pope Benedict has better things to do than to give two damns about Harry Potter.

I've never seen this site before and it doesn't quote any sources for its unlikely "article." I should trust it? Riiiiiiiight...

:rolleyes:

finally, well done pope, anything to get rid of those fucking books, i hate harry potter.

Somehow I think Pope Benedict has better things to do than to give two damns about Harry Potter.

I've never seen this site before and it doesn't quote any sources for its unlikely "article." I should trust it? Riiiiiiiight...

:rolleyes:

It is real. I found the story in a Swedish newspaper and went to look up a source in English for the forum.

True, he did say this a while ago, before he became Pope, but that still doesn't undermine the fact that he, and many others like him, feel that the faith somehow is threatened by a children's book.

Yeah well, the pope used to be a fucking nazi, so he shouldn't be criticizing anything.

[TERRY JONES AS SIR BEDEVERE]
A newt?
[/TERRY JONES AS SIR BEDEVERE]
I got better. (http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/newt.wav)

Anyways soon we'll have an inquisition (http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_video/spanish.avi) on out hands.


(Oops DP)

It is real. I found the story in a Swedish newspaper and went to look up a source in English for the forum.

True, he did say this a while ago, before he became Pope, but that still doesn't undermine the fact that he, and many others like him, feel that the faith somehow is threatened by a children's book.Right. So basically, a comment made when he was cardinal about how Harry Potter is un-catholic translates to -> "Pope thinks Harry Potter is a heresy, has nothing better to do, is no-good"

(By the way, somehow I don't think that "God's rotweiller" would feel threatened by a children's book)

Anyway, the whole issue is still pointless.

Tolkien was a devout Catholic and quite a bit of his books show this fairly well - there is the polarisation of good and evil and the Ring is pretty much the symbol of sin and temptation.

I have to admit that shades of grey are a part of the harry potter world (allthough it seems to contain pure evil/good too). I guess that in itself is against christian doctrine.

Right. So basically, a comment made when he was cardinal about how Harry Potter is un-catholic translates to -> "Pope thinks Harry Potter is a heresy, has nothing better to do, is no-good"

(By the way, somehow I don't think that "God's rotweiller" would feel threatened by a children's book)

Anyway, the whole issue is still pointless.

"Undermining the soul of Christianity" seems pretty serious to me. You're right that the issue is pointless, though, so I wonder why the "Rotweiller" would give it thought at all.

The thing about Harry Potter is that it doesn't so much drip Satanic values as English Anglican values held deeply in British secular society. When the Pope says that Harry Potter is undermineing Christianity he is realy saying England and the Protestant Reformation are undermineing Christianity.

Well I suppose from the point of view of a Pope that would be the case.

Anyway, the whole issue is still pointless.

The point is, even if the Pope started an all out crusade against the little weirdo with glasses + a freaky scar, a) no one in England and America would listen and b) J.K. Rowling could probably sue him for millions.
:D

Of course the issue is irrelevant...but at least we can add the Pope to the long list of people with some taste in decent sodding literature. Harry Potter books should be salted and burned - not because they're inherently evil or will teach kids that the use of power and wit in all circumstances by snotty little kids will save the day, but because reading good literature expands the mind and vocabulary. Reading dross like Harry Potter does not.

People enjoy what is familiar. People say to me that if reading Harry Potter makes kids read, then great. WRONG. Kids won't read proper books because their parents were sodding lazy and set them in front of the TV when they were younger, giving them the attention span of a goldfish on acid. If they'd been introduced to more and more advanced books younger, they'd find them familiar and manageable when they got older.

And they'd be reading things like The Lord of the Rings.

Of course the issue is irrelevant...but at least we can add the Pope to the long list of people with some taste in decent sodding literature. Harry Potter books should be salted and burned - not because they're inherently evil or will teach kids that the use of power and wit in all circumstances by snotty little kids will save the day, but because reading good literature expands the mind and vocabulary. Reading dross like Harry Potter does not.

People enjoy what is familiar. People say to me that if reading Harry Potter makes kids read, then great. WRONG. Kids won't read proper books because their parents were sodding lazy and set them in front of the TV when they were younger, giving them the attention span of a goldfish on acid. If they'd been introduced to more and more advanced books younger, they'd find them familiar and manageable when they got older.

And they'd be reading things like The Lord of the Rings.

We're all entitled to our opinions, I suppose. We all have different definitions of "good literature". I myself (age 25) find HP to be an entertaining, engaging, and well-written series of books. And yes, I have read literary classics (Dickens, Swift, Steinbeck, Dumas, etc) since an early age.

If a kid can read through a thousand pages in one book then their attention span can't be that bad. However, I will agree with you that most parents today are rather irresponsible and use the TV as a surrogate parent way too much.

If they'd been introduced to more and more advanced books younger, they'd find them familiar and manageable when they got older.

And they'd be reading things like The Lord of the Rings.

Thats kind of part of the whole point of Harry Potter. Havent you noticed that every book gets thicker and thicker, and the words bigger and bigger? Havent you noticed that the plots get more complex and mature. Havent you noticed that each book has more shades of grey than the one before it? Harry Potter does precisely what you propose, it progressively increases the reading abilities of children who read the books. They pick up a thin, easy to read, simple 309 page book (The Philosopher's Stone), and before they know it they are halfway through a thick 870 page book rich with symbolism, metaphors, and other advanced literary devices (Order of the Phoenix). The books keep getting bigger, the plots more complex, the literary devices more abstract, in other words, more adult.

Thicker and thicker? So what? Mein Kampf is about ten times the size of the Communist Manifesto. Which do you think is the more intellectual work?

Thats kind of part of the whole point of Harry Potter. Havent you noticed that every book gets thicker and thicker, and the words bigger and bigger? Havent you noticed that the plots get more complex and mature. Havent you noticed that each book has more shades of grey than the one before it? Harry Potter does precisely what you propose, it progressively increases the reading abilities of children who read the books. They pick up a thin, easy to read, simple 309 page book (The Philosopher's Stone), and before they know it they are halfway through a thick 870 page book rich with symbolism, metaphors, and other advanced literary devices (Order of the Phoenix). The books keep getting bigger, the plots more complex, the literary devices more abstract, in other words, more adult.


The stories are growing along with Harry and his friends.
And if I'm not mistaken, Harry Potter books are credited with sparking more youth interest in reading than any other subject to date, worldwide. I'm pretty sure most children are aware these books are works of fiction and wont be trying to practice the "dark arts". My children arent interested in satan after reading any of them.

The stories are repetitive and the language is infantile and yet these books are being read by adults and this is being heralded as a good thing!

I have no problem if a kid of five wants this read as a bed time story....but when 18 year olds are arguing over which is a better book, Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, we're in a worrying place.

The stories are repetitive and the language is infantile and yet these books are being read by adults and this is being heralded as a good thing!


You are just as bad as the Pope...

Good to know the man knows exactly how things should be done. ;)

Thanks for the laugh!

The stories are repetitive and the language is infantile and yet these books are being read by adults and this is being heralded as a good thing!

I have no problem if a kid of five wants this read as a bed time story....but when 18 year olds are arguing over which is a better book, Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, we're in a worrying place.
While I happen to agree that the series is defiantly not a literary masterpiece even by fantasy/scifi standards I still understand that people argue over just about everything, seems to be part of the human condition.

This is just dumb. In a recent document the Vatican stated to see no threat in books like Harry Potter. And I can know because I read those documents. Has anyone in this matter seen a official papal document? If not, this will proof the intelectual standard of this forum and then I am afraid what worldleaders there are on Nationstates.

This is just dumb. In a recent document the Vatican stated to see no threat in books like Harry Potter. And I can know because I read those documents. Has anyone in this matter seen a official papal document? If not, this will proof the intelectual standard of this forum and then I am afraid what worldleaders there are on Nationstates.
That does not change the statement he made to the media

War, disease, and famine are abound in the world, but we know who the REAL enemy is. Good thing the new Pope has already gotten his priorities straight.

Anyone here think that children's books are destroying the world?

Yes, children need to read books that are more wholesome and edifying, such as the bible. Here are some wonderful examples of what children can learn from this amazing book:

Sex education (with some family values thrown in):

Genesis 19:5-8: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.


Genesis 19:30-36: And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.


Ezekiel 23:20: For she doted upon their lovers, whose penis is as the penis of asses, and whose semen is like the semen of horses.


Magic (with a little lesson about honesty thrown in):

Genesis 30:31: And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed and keep thy flock: I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire. So shall my righteousness answer for me in time to come, when it shall come for my hire before thy face: every one that is not speckled and spotted among the goats, and brown among the sheep, that shall be counted stolen with me. And Laban said, Behold, I would it might be according to thy word. And he removed that day the he goats that were ringstraked and spotted, and all the she goats that were speckled and spotted, and every one that had some white in it, and all the brown among the sheep, and gave them into the hand of his sons. And he set three days' journey betwixt himself and Jacob: and Jacob fed the rest of Laban's flocks. And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods. And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink. And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted. And Jacob did separate the lambs, and set the faces of the flocks toward the ringstraked, and all the brown in the flock of Laban; and he put his own flocks by themselves, and put them not unto Laban's cattle. And it came to pass, whensoever the stronger cattle did conceive, that Jacob laid the rods before the eyes of the cattle in the gutters, that they might conceive among the rods. But when the cattle were feeble, he put them not in: so the feebler were Laban's, and the stronger Jacob's. And the man increased exceedingly, and had much cattle, and maidservants, and menservants, and camels, and asses.


Honesty (with a bit of sex education thrown in):

Genesis 26:6-9: And Isaac dwelt in Gerar: And the men of the place asked him of his wife; and he said, She is my sister: for he feared to say, She is my wife; lest, said he, the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah; because she was fair to look upon. And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife. And Abimelech called Isaac, and said, Behold, of a surety she is thy wife: and how saidst thou, She is my sister? And Isaac said unto him, Because I said, Lest I die for her.

snip
Dont forget the song of solomon :p

This is just dumb. In a recent document the Vatican stated to see no threat in books like Harry Potter. And I can know because I read those documents. Has anyone in this matter seen a official papal document? If not, this will proof the intelectual standard of this forum and then I am afraid what worldleaders there are on Nationstates.

You can read Papal documents but you can't read the thread? I've already said that these remarks are from the time when the current Pope was still a cardinal. Nonetheless, these were his beliefs then and they most likely are now. The Conclave saw this man fit to be Pope and thus must approve of his opinions atleast partially.

Insulting the collective intellectual standard of an entire forum does not do well for your image. Especially when you can't even spell 'intellectual'.

Dont forget the song of solomon :p

Ah yes - the Song of Solomon...but there were so many edifying passages to choose from - the dilemma was, where to begin? :D

Ah yes - the Song of Solomon...but there were so many edifying passages to choose from - the dilemma was, where to begin? :D
Lol if the thread wasn’t so old that it got pruned could have used some of the passages from the “why the bible should have a warning label” thread lol

Insulting the collective intellectual standard of an entire forum does not do well for your image. Especially when you can't even spell 'intellectual'.

I am not native English speaking, so I can afford writting typos. But that is beside the core of this discusion. And even if the man did ever said someting like that, there is no official vatican statement made. That is not what can be said from 'The Da Vinci Code'. I, as a man from the Church, like reading Harry Potter. But I agree in the unofficial Vatican Statement about how dangerous 'The Da Vinci Code' could be. It is fiction mixed with history, and most people won't be able to get clear what is fiction and what is history (Jesus married Mary Magdalene=fiction, but most people seem to enjoy thinking that it is history)

That is not possible with Harry Potter. Harry Potter is pure fiction and is thereby not dangerous (Vatican statement)

I am not native English speaking, so I can afford writting typos. But that is beside the core of this discusion. And even if the man did ever said someting like that, there is no official vatican statement made. That is not what can be said from 'The Da Vinci Code'. I, as a man from the Church, like reading Harry Potter. But I agree in the unofficial Vatican Statement about how dangerous 'The Da Vinci Code' could be. It is fiction mixed with history, and most people won't be able to get clear what is fiction and what is history (Jesus married Mary Magdalene=fiction, but most people seem to enjoy thinking that it is history)
Big jumble of thoughts here care to sort them out for us?

It was never said that official Vatican statement was made … it was said the POPE as in the man behind the Vatican said it.

That requires no official statement to be made, it may not be church doctrine just because he said it in an interview but it does give us a good idea what direction he would like to peruse (and with someone of the popes power and status we defiantly have to watch what direction we think he is going to go in)

...It is fiction mixed with history, and most people won't be able to get clear what is fiction and what is history...

Funny, that's how I would describe the Bible.

Sarcasm aside, it doesn't matter whether or not the Vatican made this statement. The man who is now Pope made it and believes it.

I banned Harry Potter in my country. I just don't like him.

And it seems A LOT of people believe, or want to believe, the The Da Vinci Code is fact. That's a bad thing.

Funny, that's how I would describe the Bible.

Good call! :D

Good call! :D

*Bows*

*Hits head on keyboard*

Ow.

As far as I know, the late Pope John Paul II at least attempted to correct some of the Vatican's mistakes. This new pope is ultra-conservative, some might even say fundamentalist. God help us (no pun intended) when religious fundamentalists take power. Everybody knows that any kind of religious extremism is at best boring and at worst genocidal.

I think I dismissed the Harry Potter issue, purely because I've never bothered reading the books myself.

The Da Vinci Code... most people decide to believe that it is all fact, because Brown posts a disclaimer at the beginning stating that parts of it do have some bearing on reality, and specifies which parts. However, in general, many people are far too lazy to form any of their own opinions on the matter and just run on the assumption of "yeah, part of it is true, so I'll think all of it is". Parts of is will be true (for example, there is a glass pyramid in the grounds of the Louvre, so yes, that description is accurate). Other parts of it may or may not be true, whilst yet more parts will be wholly fictional.

The thing that worries me more about the Da Vinci Code isn't the controversy, it's simply that it's a novel which has sold something like ten million copies, despite being a very poorly written book.

Jesussaves tried to warn you about the evils of Harry Potter months ago. Only a few listened. Now will you take this threat to our children's hearts, minds and souls seriously?

I was just wondering something...

How many of you who are posting comments about the Pope's statement are Catholic? :confused:

The reason I ask is because there were many polls in the U.S. saying who should be the next Pope and what he should believe. However, only 25% of Americans "claim" to be Catholic (of those, less than 50% actually attend Mass at least once a week). Yet all these people are trying to tell the Catholic Church what to teach and believe. :eek: Aren't these the same ones who claim that the Church is infringing on their lives and "forcing" them to believe something?

Now that's hypocrisy! :headbang:

All I can say is, if the Pope threw off his robes (with clothes underneath, for Pete's sake) and jumped off of a Vatican balcony, grabbed onto one of those random banners and slid to the ground, I'd convert. And that's just about the ONLY way I'd convert.

The day we'll get a homosexual, female pope, I'll convert.

I'm so tired of the 90% of all christians that give the rest a bad reputation.

Aww, give Pope Palpatine a break, it's hard adjusting to knowing 700 years ago you would of been the most powerful man on earth.

Aww, give Pope Palpatine a break, it's hard adjusting to knowing 700 years ago you would of been the most powerful man on earth.

We all know who's the most powerful man on earth nowdays... suddenly the good old pope doesn't seem to bad... :)

Of course the issue is irrelevant...but at least we can add the Pope to the long list of people with some taste in decent sodding literature. Harry Potter books should be salted and burned - not because they're inherently evil or will teach kids that the use of power and wit in all circumstances by snotty little kids will save the day, but because reading good literature expands the mind and vocabulary. Reading dross like Harry Potter does not.

People enjoy what is familiar. People say to me that if reading Harry Potter makes kids read, then great. WRONG. Kids won't read proper books because their parents were sodding lazy and set them in front of the TV when they were younger, giving them the attention span of a goldfish on acid. If they'd been introduced to more and more advanced books younger, they'd find them familiar and manageable when they got older.

And they'd be reading things like The Lord of the Rings.

Harry Potter happens to be a very interesting and intellectual series of books, but some people will naturally find it boring. I tried to read 1984 once, and it was all right until it became a boring, long-winded, useless piece of writing. And yet I know some perfectly inttelligent, decent people who read it every chance they get. Perople's tastes differ.

Thats kind of part of the whole point of Harry Potter. Havent you noticed that every book gets thicker and thicker, and the words bigger and bigger? Havent you noticed that the plots get more complex and mature. Havent you noticed that each book has more shades of grey than the one before it? Harry Potter does precisely what you propose, it progressively increases the reading abilities of children who read the books. They pick up a thin, easy to read, simple 309 page book (The Philosopher's Stone), and before they know it they are halfway through a thick 870 page book rich with symbolism, metaphors, and other advanced literary devices (Order of the Phoenix). The books keep getting bigger, the plots more complex, the literary devices more abstract, in other words, more adult.

That's right. They get bigger, thicker, more adult, and I have to admit I learned a few words from reading Order of the Pheonix. And this coming from and AP English student should mean something. Plus, the plotlines do get more mature as the series progresses.

The stories are growing along with Harry and his friends.
And if I'm not mistaken, Harry Potter books are credited with sparking more youth interest in reading than any other subject to date, worldwide. I'm pretty sure most children are aware these books are works of fiction and wont be trying to practice the "dark arts". My children arent interested in satan after reading any of them.

*applauds* And Harry Potter and his friends grow along with the audience reading them. I started reading Harry Potter when I was 13 years old, I'm 16 now. The stories grow along with the readers. And I, my friends, and random people I've met who read Harry Potter all agree on one thing: It's a fantasy story.

The stories are repetitive and the language is infantile and yet these books are being read by adults and this is being heralded as a good thing!

I have no problem if a kid of five wants this read as a bed time story....but when 18 year olds are arguing over which is a better book, Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, we're in a worrying place.

The stories are not repetitive, the language is not infantile, and so what if adults want to read them? It's their choice. Have you even read them? And just reading the first one doesn't count. Nor does seeing the movies, because the books are much more grown up and better written than the movies. As most movies based on books are.

And, for the record, I am devoutly Catholic. I was confirmed last May, I volunteer with the church, I'm even going on a youth mission trip for a week this summer. I can't imagine where I'd be if I wasn't Catholic. However, I think if the Pope makes some weird rule that Catholics can't read harry Potter, I'll just have to laugh at his idiocy and keep on reading them anyway. Because whether he likes it or not, I highly doubt God cares whether a bunch of people, wo know very well that it's fantasy, read Harry Potter.

And I've never read Lord of the Rings, but from what I've heard it isn't much different from Harry Potter, so those arguments that it's real literature while Harry Potter isnt don't hold water with me. Once I can actually get my hands on the Lord of the Rings books without having to be put on a waiting list 200 pages thick at the library, I'll let you know if my opinion here changes. :)

"It is good that you explain the facts of Harry Potter, because this is a subtle seduction, which has deeply unnoticed and direct effects in undermining the soul of Christianity before it can really grow properly."

Disgusting isn't it. If that isn't bad enough, the last pope boycotted Billy Joel because of 'Only the good die young'.

BURN the books! SIEG HEIL! Heil Hitler!

*Goosesteps around Berling, throwing the Torah or the occasional Harry Potter book into the bonfire*

Disgusting isn't it. If that isn't bad enough, the last pope boycotted Billy Joel because of 'Only the good die young'.

Yeah, but at least he didn't ban Harry Potter.

Did you expect him to say anything MEANINGFUL?

Anyways soon we'll have an inquisition (http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_video/spanish.avi) on out hands.


(Oops DP)

No one expects the spanish Inquisition!!
Besides he was the Chief Inquisitor

I was just wondering something...

How many of you who are posting comments about the Pope's statement are Catholic? :confused:

The reason I ask is because there were many polls in the U.S. saying who should be the next Pope and what he should believe. However, only 25% of Americans "claim" to be Catholic (of those, less than 50% actually attend Mass at least once a week). Yet all these people are trying to tell the Catholic Church what to teach and believe. :eek: Aren't these the same ones who claim that the Church is infringing on their lives and "forcing" them to believe something?

Now that's hypocrisy! :headbang:
Wrong we are worried because what the pope says usualy ends up in a christian movement to push that belief on us ... we have every right to be worried with the past history

Did you expect him to say anything MEANINGFUL?

"Bedankt voor de bloemen."

Harry Potter happens to be a very interesting and intellectual series of books, but some people will naturally find it boring. I tried to read 1984 once, and it was all right until it became a boring, long-winded, useless piece of writing. And yet I know some perfectly inttelligent, decent people who read it every chance they get. Perople's tastes differ.



That's right. They get bigger, thicker, more adult, and I have to admit I learned a few words from reading Order of the Pheonix. And this coming from and AP English student should mean something. Plus, the plotlines do get more mature as the series progresses.



*applauds* And Harry Potter and his friends grow along with the audience reading them. I started reading Harry Potter when I was 13 years old, I'm 16 now. The stories grow along with the readers. And I, my friends, and random people I've met who read Harry Potter all agree on one thing: It's a fantasy story.



The stories are not repetitive, the language is not infantile, and so what if adults want to read them? It's their choice. Have you even read them? And just reading the first one doesn't count. Nor does seeing the movies, because the books are much more grown up and better written than the movies. As most movies based on books are.

And, for the record, I am devoutly Catholic. I was confirmed last May, I volunteer with the church, I'm even going on a youth mission trip for a week this summer. I can't imagine where I'd be if I wasn't Catholic. However, I think if the Pope makes some weird rule that Catholics can't read harry Potter, I'll just have to laugh at his idiocy and keep on reading them anyway. Because whether he likes it or not, I highly doubt God cares whether a bunch of people, wo know very well that it's fantasy, read Harry Potter.

And I've never read Lord of the Rings, but from what I've heard it isn't much different from Harry Potter, so those arguments that it's real literature while Harry Potter isnt don't hold water with me. Once I can actually get my hands on the Lord of the Rings books without having to be put on a waiting list 200 pages thick at the library, I'll let you know if my opinion here changes. :)


I have read all of them (along with almost every fantasy / Sci-Fi book in existence (a good portion of them) while Harry Potter is defiantly in the top percentile when you get into some of the better fantasy novels Harry while amusing does not stack up as well

But that is coming from a later perspective I defiantly respect and cherish the interest it has sparked in the fantasy world for young readers to moderate readers and the whole growth theme (pioneered by a few other authors … Baxter and a few others) is a great method

Reading ANYTHING is good for people to do … and the potter books are defiantly worth reading at least once

I got better. (http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/newt.wav)

There it is! Well played!

The stories are repetitive and the language is infantile and yet these books are being read by adults and this is being heralded as a good thing!

I have no problem if a kid of five wants this read as a bed time story....but when 18 year olds are arguing over which is a better book, Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, we're in a worrying place.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion, but you can't sit there and tell me the stories are repetetive and the language is infantile. Compared to Dostoevsy, Kafka, Eco or Joyce? Of course. But nobody should be subjected to deliberately abusive literature like that until they're ready for it (and NOBODY should be subjected to Ulysses at any time).

The characters, action and setting are compelling and completely appropriate to its audience. LOTR is as well -- different audience, though. Apples and oranges.

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them bad literature. I dislike Joyce and Eco, but that doesn't mean they're bad.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion, but you can't sit there and tell me the stories are repetetive and the language is infantile. Compared to Dostoevsy, Kafka, Eco or Joyce? Of course. But nobody should be subjected to deliberately abusive literature like that until they're ready for it (and NOBODY should be subjected to Ulysses at any time).

The characters, action and setting are compelling and completely appropriate to its audience. LOTR is as well -- different audience, though. Apples and oranges.

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them bad literature. I dislike Joyce and Eco, but that doesn't mean they're bad.
Yeah token by today’s standards is not exactly top shelf but what always amazes me is the style he SET you can see his style echoing through out the fantasy world even now. Pioneers are not always the best in the end but they are sometimes the most creative(most of the time)

Aww, give Pope Palpatine a break, it's hard adjusting to knowing 700 years ago you would of been the most powerful man on earth.

On the other hand, changing all the Hymns and Psalms so they can be chanted to The Imperial March ought to make the Catholic Church hipper to today's generation.

:D

"And this is the neighbor who told us where the Harry Potter books were."
*Ka-BOOM*
"And this is where he lived."
*Ka-BOOM*
"And this is where he was born."
*Ka-f*cking-BOOM*

(for example, there is a glass pyramid in the grounds of the Louvre, so yes, that description is accurate).

Which one, that it is their or that it has 666 panes of glass in it?

Bah, but don't get me started on Da Vinci Code :mad:

Linky (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/new%20pope%20hits%20out%20at%20harry%20potter%20books)



War, disease, and famine are abound in the world, but we know who the REAL enemy is. Good thing the new Pope has already gotten his priorities straight.

Anyone here think that children's books are destroying the world?
Well, it's now official: I hate the Pope. No surprise there. :p

Ungh... Idiot.. Did you see the thing he said about rock music being the work of the devil? AMong others he named The Eagles.. actually i kinda agree with him.. I hate the Eagles..

Ungh... Idiot.. Did you see the thing he said about rock music being the work of the devil? AMong others he named The Eagles.. actually i kinda agree with him.. I hate the Eagles..
I have some parents of a friends that hate them (because of stairway)
Because obviously free expression is the devils work :P

"And this is the neighbor who told us where the Harry Potter books were."
*Ka-BOOM*
"And this is where he lived."
*Ka-BOOM*
"And this is where he was born."
*Ka-f*cking-BOOM*

Ah, the old government film on "How Not To Be Seen."

Classic.

Linky (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/new%20pope%20hits%20out%20at%20harry%20potter%20books)



War, disease, and famine are abound in the world, but we know who the REAL enemy is. Good thing the new Pope has already gotten his priorities straight.

Anyone here think that children's books are destroying the world?

You have got to be kidding me.

I read and like Harry Potter books and I still manage to be Christian. Those books haven't turned anyone I know evil. How stupid.... :rolleyes:

I think i've found the reason (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/4469397.stm) that the pope is condemning harry potter.

War, disease, and famine are abound in the world, but we know who the REAL enemy is. Good thing the new Pope has already gotten his priorities straight.

Anyone here think that children's books are destroying the world?

Of course, had he condemed any of those things, skeptics like you would have come along and said something along the lines of "Well, Duh! Of course these things are bad" or some other such thing.

Ok...

He's the pope...

So don't expect anything clever, intelligent or fitting into the 21st century from him.

Well he did not really say so (or at least not officially). This stupid bitch just said so on her website.

I think i've found the reason (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/4469397.stm) that the pope is condemning harry potter.

Btw:
This is in Germany and the Harry Potter book has by now only been published in English.
Therefore it rather is a surprise it is sold that often anyway.

its funny how so many christians condemn harry potter even though that series has single handedly made reading a "cool" thing to do among kids. Its sad that in an age of video games and internet, good literature is being condemned by a world leader when he should be focusing on more worthy issues like abortion and famine.

You atheists should be happy, now satanist wont try to subliminally convert you through the books.

Proof it promotes satanism:
The mention of witchcraft. Witches are devil worshippers who sell their soul for magic. There are other reasons but I would actually have to wing it since i really dont know or like or even care about the books. What is so special about a little wizard (similar to warlocks which are male witches)? I mean if everyone there was a soceror and they didnt have any satanism propaganda then sure it would be ok but then again socery is a lot different from magic.

If he condemned Harry Potter I hope Benedict XVI doesn't go near anime.... *shudder*

its funny how so many christians condemn harry potter even though that series has single handedly made reading a "cool" thing to do among kids. Its sad that in an age of video games and internet, good literature is being condemned by a world leader when he should be focusing on more worthy issues like abortion and famine.

Are you drunk commies' puppet or something?

Well anyway nothing made reading cool. Reading was always the same. If they want to read then they should at least read about important things like politics, history, moral and ethical values (not neccasarily like the things in the bible), edict, foreign languages and other stuff.

You atheists should be happy, now satanist wont try to subliminally convert you through the books.

Proof it promotes satanism:
The mention of witchcraft. Witches are devil worshippers who sell their soul for magic. There are other reasons but I would actually have to wing it since i really dont know or like or even care about the books. What is so special about a little wizard (similar to warlocks which are male witches)? I mean if everyone there was a soceror and they didnt have any satanism propaganda then sure it would be ok but then again socery is a lot different from magic.

:sniper: :sniper: :mp5: :mp5:
BURNEM!!!!!!!!!!

:sniper: :sniper: :mp5: :mp5:
BURNEM!!!!!!!!!!

That would also make sure that the creator wouldnt be richer then the royal family.

I have three nines i win.

now what is so special about HP anyway and why do you (most people who like it) like it anyway?

You atheists should be happy, now satanist wont try to subliminally convert you through the books.

Proof it promotes satanism:
The mention of witchcraft. Witches are devil worshippers who sell their soul for magic. There are other reasons but I would actually have to wing it since i really dont know or like or even care about the books.
I have a wiccan friend who would very much disagree with you. Witchcraft is not satanism.
then again, I suppose you might as well start condemning:
Dungeons and Dragons
The Lord of the Rings
The Wizard of Oz
The dragonriders of pern series
The Chronicles of Narnia
The Sword of Truth series
In fact, about a third of all literature.
What is so special about a little wizard (similar to warlocks which are male witches)? I mean if everyone there was a soceror and they didnt have any satanism propaganda then sure it would be ok but then again socery is a lot different from magic.
What's so special about anyone really? Why write books about anyone at all?
It's hopeless ignorance like yours that holds back the rest of civilization.

I read and like Harry Potter books and I still manage to be Christian. Those books haven't turned anyone I know evil. How stupid.... :rolleyes:
No, you only THINK you're Christian still. The evil is so subtle that it's converted you to Satanism without you noticing at all.
:D

Well anyway nothing made reading cool. Reading was always the same. If they want to read then they should at least read about important things like politics, history, moral and ethical values (not neccasarily like the things in the bible), edict, foreign languages and other stuff.
YES, because it's so EASY to get a fifth grader to read that stuff.

its funny how so many christians condemn harry potter even though that series has single handedly made reading a "cool" thing to do among kids. Its sad that in an age of video games and internet, good literature is being condemned by a world leader when he should be focusing on more worthy issues like abortion and famine.
What the hell are you smoking? Those books suck to no end. The characters are cardboard, the plots are both forced and repetitive, and she's just a downwrite shit writer. A bunch of monkeys in front of a typewriter could do better.

After all, they did write Hamlet ;)

I have a wiccan friend who would very much disagree with you. Witchcraft is not satanism.
then again, I suppose you might as well start condemning:
Dungeons and Dragons
The Lord of the Rings
The Wizard of Oz
The dragonriders of pern series
The Chronicles of Narnia
The Sword of Truth series
In fact, about a third of all literature.

What's so special about anyone really? Why write books about anyone at all?
It's hopeless ignorance like yours that holds back the rest of civilization.

I never said anyone was special although there were important people in history such as aldolf hitler, Charles I (or V), Washington, George I Hanover, Louis XIV Burbon, and others. Read about them to learn why the world is the way it is.

Anyway the difference between the mythical forces of socerory and magic.
Socerory=innate
Magic=To get you either have to sacrifice something or you learn it from a being (that is not you)
Although socerory could be taught to other socerorers(esses) it is innate all the time.

witch

n 1: a female sorcerer or magician [syn: enchantress] 2: a being (usually female) imagined to have special powers derived from the devil 3: an ugly evil-looking old woman [syn: hag, beldam, beldame, crone] v : cast a spell over someone or something; put a hex on someone or something [syn: hex, bewitch, glamour, enchant, jinx]

Now the last statement, what do you mean by hopeless ignorance?

YES, because it's so EASY to get a fifth grader to read that stuff.

Tisn't hard at all. There are several ways, some may be considered extreme (and might be illegal).

First find a topic they would care about (as long as its not evil and they could actually understand it. Such forbidden book should be Harry Potter, Cold Equations (The whole thing is sexist against males), and thats all I could think of for now.)

The second way is to assign it as homework and fail them making them stay back if they dont.

Show them the amish style of life, no electricity so they have nothing better to do (or you could just unplug the tv and or comp, they would think its broken).

Force them to read it.

Tape recorder+Play while they sleep (if the book is on audio tape or you could read the thing out loud while recording it)=Reading (technically hearing) the book. This may/may not work better on a higher/lower volume.

Lets go through that definition of yours

witch

n 1: a female sorcerer or magician [syn: enchantress]
The first definition, and therefore the most common. Also quite clearly what was meant in Rowling's books.

2: a being (usually female) imagined to have special powers derived from the devil
Emphasis mine.

So do you condemn any literature mentioning witches, wizardry, or magic (about a third of all literature.)

Do you say that my wiccan friend is instead a satanist?

Just how hopelessly ignorant are you?

Linky (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/new%20pope%20hits%20out%20at%20harry%20potter%20books)



War, disease, and famine are abound in the world, but we know who the REAL enemy is. Good thing the new Pope has already gotten his priorities straight.

Anyone here think that children's books are destroying the world?
Funny how they don't link to where this comment was made, eh? The only link I could find on the vatican website for "Harry Potter" is here:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/cultr/documents/rc_pc_cultr_20021612_doc_iv-2002-not_en.html

"A BRITISH VIEW FROM JAPAN ON “TOLKIEN VERSUS ROWLING”"

And it is OMG in support of Harry Potter.

Really, now.... you'd think they'd actually, you know, cite a source....

Tisn't hard at all. There are several ways, some may be considered extreme (and might be illegal).

First find a topic they would care about (as long as its not evil and they could actually understand it. Such forbidden book should be Harry Potter, Cold Equations (The whole thing is sexist against males), and thats all I could think of for now.)

The second way is to assign it as homework and fail them making them stay back if they dont.

Show them the amish style of life, no electricity so they have nothing better to do (or you could just unplug the tv and or comp, they would think its broken).

Force them to read it.

Tape recorder+Play while they sleep (if the book is on audio tape or you could read the thing out loud while recording it)=Reading (technically hearing) the book. This may/may not work better on a higher/lower volume.

wee. Brainwashing and forbidden books and poverty. So, when you become the dictator of the world, and we're all your broken slaves, how low should I bow?

Seriously, the idea that some books are "Evil" and therefore must be banned has gone by the wayside.

Thicker and thicker? So what? Mein Kampf is about ten times the size of the Communist Manifesto. Which do you think is the more intellectual work?

None of the above cab compare to Sports Scoress page....its more widely followed, and is something taken seriously by all the wrong people.

I have never read a Potter book, I cannot comment on them. I do think it is ridiculus to attack a book, if you don't like it don't read it. Kids should read whatever book interests them. What is considered great litterature is by some considered to be rubbish. Anyone here actually able to stay awake while reading Brave New World by Aldous Huxley? It sucks in my opinion. Yet it is considered great litterature. I haven't read Kafka, but I have heard that his works are boring.

How many have actually read Pushkn(considered by some to be Russia's greatest author ever), Strindbergh(Sweden's greatest author and influent on modern playwrights), and many other "great" authors? Great authors are those who made an impact on society(they were not "good" authors, who would honestly read Kafka over and over again). Citizen Kane is by critics named the best movie ever. Not because you watch it over and over again, it's a "great" movie.

Reading is healthy(now there is some very odd stuff out there) in general. If kids read Harry Potter then let them. Just because Asimov was atheist(yay!) doesn't mean that his work is. There's another one. How many here have read all of Asimov's work(460+ books!)? I am reading his Guide to the Bible, so I am currently reading the work of a "great" author.

I think Tom Clancy has done some great books, yet he is not a "great" author.

I might just have to read Harry Potter so I have a damned clue of what the books are like. I can say that it is most likely more entertaining than Lord of the Rings(people that book sucks! Well the first 1, 1/2 parts did. I stopped and felt like burning the book up!)

It is all a matter of taste. I bought Battleship Potemkin on DVD. It is a "great" movie(Eisenstein's masterpiece) and not too bad. Most people today would not watch it. The same with books. Except a book takes longer to finish.

I'm a christian, I read Harry Potter...evil? :rolleyes:

Linky (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/new%20pope%20hits%20out%20at%20harry%20potter%20books)

War, disease, and famine are abound in the world, but we know who the REAL enemy is. Good thing the new Pope has already gotten his priorities straight.

Anyone here think that children's books are destroying the world?
Ugh, fundamentalists. There was a Northern Ireland fundamentalist Protestant guy a few years ago who wanted Harry Potter banned for the same reason. I never expected this craziness to make it to the Vatican.

Funny how they don't link to where this comment was made, eh? The only link I could find on the vatican website for "Harry Potter" is here:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/cultr/documents/rc_pc_cultr_20021612_doc_iv-2002-not_en.html

"A BRITISH VIEW FROM JAPAN ON “TOLKIEN VERSUS ROWLING”"

And it is OMG in support of Harry Potter.

Really, now.... you'd think they'd actually, you know, cite a source....

As I've said before, Kat, the statement was made [b]before he became pope[b]. I find it interesting because it is this person the Vatican has decided fit to be their spiritual leader. I would have found a better link, but I first saw this in a Swedish newspaper. No point in posting a site that only a few here could actually read.

I never said anyone was special although there were important people in history such as aldolf hitler, Charles I (or V), Washington, George I Hanover, Louis XIV Burbon, and others. Read about them to learn why the world is the way it is.

Anyway the difference between the mythical forces of socerory and magic.
Socerory=innate
Magic=To get you either have to sacrifice something or you learn it from a being (that is not you)
Although socerory could be taught to other socerorers(esses) it is innate all the time.

witch

n 1: a female sorcerer or magician [syn: enchantress] 2: a being (usually female) imagined to have special powers derived from the devil 3: an ugly evil-looking old woman [syn: hag, beldam, beldame, crone] v : cast a spell over someone or something; put a hex on someone or something [syn: hex, bewitch, glamour, enchant, jinx]

Now the last statement, what do you mean by hopeless ignorance?

*smashes...head....with....large...brick*

Why is it that everyone instantly associates Wiccan beliefs with Satanism? Wicca relates more to Paganism. One little side note on that topic...if you follow Christianity back, it stems from Paganism as well.

Also, the Harry Potter series is quite a good series. Read it, loved it, cant wait for the next one. I also have read many great works, and am currently finishing a biography on Rasputin, quite the good read.

I just wish people with hopeless ignorance and closed minds such as yourself would shut up and listen to reason. If they realize it is fiction, what is the big deal?

*smashes...head....with....large...brick*

Why is it that everyone instantly associates Wiccan beliefs with Satanism? Wicca relates more to Paganism. One little side note on that topic...if you follow Christianity back, it stems from Paganism as well.


Indeed. Most traditions around Christmas and Easter stem directly from Paganism. Satanism, on the other hand, is really just an off-shoot of Christianity, and has nothing to do with Paganism or Wiccan at all. Wiccan has been marked as evil by the Christian church from the very beginning; they didn't like the competition.

"And so Harry Potter and all his friends were all burnt at the stake for practising witchcraft!"

"YAAAAAY!"

:D

Yeah i mean seriously...if he thinks that harry potter books are 'satanist' and whichcraft he should take a strong stance against satanism. I mean when have you heard the pope actually condemn satanism and all similar crazy cults.

i have to ask, and i appologise if this has been said, but are other fantasy books, Lord of the Rings for example, evil too?

i have to ask, and i appologise if this has been said, but are other fantasy books, Lord of the Rings for example, evil too?

Harry Potter is specifically criticized by many fundamentalists because it's very popular among children; they fear that the youth will be "mislead". Other fantasy books have not been mentioned very much. The Vatican has, however, taken a rather hostile stance toward "The Da Vinci Code".

If he condemned Harry Potter I hope Benedict XVI doesn't go near anime.... *shudder*

Dude, it began years ago. When was the last time you saw an episode of the Smurfs on tv? Chrisendom was none too happy about seeing a penticle in Papa Smurf's house.

Although after the kiddie crack down you can't help but wonder how many priests will/have turned to manga.

Most of the criticism has to do with the way it portrays magic as a force that can be used for good. I think its safe to say that we all remember as a kid wanting to be like the characters we liked. We wanted to be superman or batman or spiderman or he-man, or whatever the case may be. Heck, alot of us ate spinach because we wanted to be like Popeye. Magic goes against christian principles, so alot of christians are weary about letting their kids read a book that might spark an interest in wanting to be like a character who practices magic.

My church has a good mix of people. We have many fundamentalists and other more progressive. Some of the kids I teach are Harry Potter fans, others are not allowed to read the books or watch the films. One of them actually showed up at the premier for the last movie dressed as one of the characters. Personally, I think that as long as you talk to your children about the difference between real magic and the make believe magic from Harry Potter, there is nothing wrong with letting them read the books and watch the movies.

Harry Potter is specifically criticized by many fundamentalists because it's very popular among children; they fear that the youth will be "mislead". Other fantasy books have not been mentioned very much. The Vatican has, however, taken a rather hostile stance toward "The Da Vinci Code".
i wonder if this is proof that a) they dont want others to think, b) they dont want others to enjoy themselves or c) they are jealous cos we get to enjoy ourselves, or d) all of the above

i wonder if this is proof that a) they dont want others to think, b) they dont want others to enjoy themselves or c) they are jealous cos we get to enjoy ourselves, or d) all of the above

I have no idea how you came to any of those conclusions from that statement or from any others.

I have no idea how you came to any of those conclusions from that statement or from any others.
:rolleyes:

The Vatican has, however, taken a rather hostile stance toward "The Da Vinci Code".

Well since thats an open attack on Chrisitanity, based on non existant facts claiming to be facts then yes, I think they have good reason to attack it.

Harry Potter is specifically criticized by many fundamentalists because it's very popular among children; they fear that the youth will be "mislead".

Thats not the reason. Or else the church would be critising the Alex Rider series and the Artimus Fowl series. Things dont just get criticised by the church because they are popular, but because there content is concerning to the church.

Thats not the reason. Or else the church would be critising the Alex Rider series and the Artimus Fowl series. Things dont just get criticised by the church because they are popular, but because there content is concerning to the church.

Read the post I was replying to. I gave the reason why this [i]fantasy[i] book is singled out among others. Almost all fantasy has magic, but few have achieved the popularity among children that HP has.

then again, I suppose you might as well start condemning:
Dungeons and Dragons

They've been there and done that. Most have finally given up, although I think Jack Chick is still on the kick.

The Lord of the Rings

Tolkien wouldn't mind. =)

The Chronicles of Narnia

I know you're just using this list to make a point, but I find it interesting that you include this one. The Chronicles of Narnia are, in fact, meant to be a tool for teaching Christianity to kids. *gasp*

Read the post I was replying to. I gave the reason why this [i]fantasy[i] book is singled out among others. Almost all fantasy has magic, but few have achieved the popularity among children that HP has.

So it is evil because it is popular?

*puts down harry potter*

*picks up the origin of species*

So it is evil because it is popular?

In combination with a story protraying magic and sorcery in a positive light, yes.

Now we all knew that modern Christianity has nothing really to do with Jesus Christ. I mean if you read about him he was a peaceful healer type and very relaxed and groovy in the ghandhi / nelson mandela type area. He preached for acceptance and turning of the other cheek. He called out for helping your fellow man instead of being selfish. He was not at all spiteful, elitist, domineering, Greedy, or judgemental, like the current incarnation of most christian faiths (I'm talking the organization here not the individuals i've actually known a few individuals who got the point most in the organization of christianity don't quite get it i've seen). I mean for gods sake was he not the one who said 'he who is without sin cast the first stone' Now i'm not a christian or even religeous. in fact i'm an atheist. but i study religeon a bit because something that has control of so many human minds must be fascinating.

All i have to say about this is this action by the pope is just another example in the galllery museum of acts by the church that like as not would make jesus who is the BASIS of the Religeon shake his head and say "God Damn, They are missing the point. I told them to be cool to each other and they do these things in MY name?"

mmm I have Harry Potter 6 on Pre-Order. God I love FICTION.

BURN THE HEATHEN CHILDREN!

BURH THEIR HEATHEN PARENTS!

BURN THE HEATHEN PUBLISHERS!

BURN THE HEATHEN AUTHOR!

But cheer the people living in palaces with huge gold altars while millions of people die from poverty and aids, which is more easily spread thanks to the godly rules against condoms.

mmm I have Harry Potter 6 on Pre-Order. God I love FICTION.

Lucky bastard. :)

In combination with a story protraying magic and sorcery in a positive light, yes.

So I take it you are equally opposed to the Chronicles of Narnia, their usefulness in teaching Christianity notwithstanding?

So I take it you are equally opposed to the Chronicles of Narnia, their usefulness in teaching Christianity notwithstanding?

What now? Read the thread already. I am not the one opposed to Harry Potter books. Indeed, I rather like them and have read all 5. The current Pope dislikes Harry Potter and the "influence" it has on children. I was merely clarifying why.

Again, Ratzinger aka Benedict XVI believes this, probably not the Vatican itself, and certainly not me.

*puts down harry potter*

*picks up the origin of species*

*Gently points out that Darwin saw the OftS as proof of God's infinite wisdom and complexity and the fact that OftS, and subsequent, and more thoroughly researched pieces into evolution have been accepted by the church that condems Harry Potter*

i honestly dont see the big deal with letting people have imaginations...why does this book get so much attention? it is fiction after all, not a book like the bible sacrificing animals and such...

Lucky bastard. :)

Amazon.com man!

i honestly dont see the big deal with letting people have imaginations...why does this book get so much attention? it is fiction after all, not a book like the bible sacrificing animals and such...

my guess is because it's easier to gripe about someone else's yard than clean up your own

*Gently points out that Darwin saw the OftS as proof of God's infinite wisdom and complexity and the fact that OftS, and subsequent, and more thoroughly researched pieces into evolution have been accepted by the church that condems Harry Potter*

mention evolution with some of my christian friends and you might wind up hung on a tree...

Amazon.com man!

Hmm... why is there an "Adult" edition and a "Childrens'" edition? What's the difference? Is the childrens' censored or something? (Looking on Amazon.co.uk)

mention evolution with some of my christian friends and you might wind up hung on a tree...

Yup, it takes all sorts to make up the human race...

Hmm... why is there an "Adult" edition and a "Childrens'" edition? What's the difference? Is the childrens' censored or something? (Looking on Amazon.co.uk)

They put on an adults cover so 'mature grown ups' wouldn't be embarressed by reading a book with a kids cover on it. The editions are the same, just the covers are different.

That said when Hermyony (sp?) finally chooses which one of Harry and other one she wants it might be a different reason...

What now? Read the thread already. I am not the one opposed to Harry Potter books. Indeed, I rather like them and have read all 5. The current Pope dislikes Harry Potter and the "influence" it has on children. I was merely clarifying why.

Again, Ratzinger aka Benedict XVI believes this, probably not the Vatican itself, and certainly not me.

s/you/"the church"

They put on an adults cover so 'mature grown ups' wouldn't be embarressed by reading a book with a kids cover on it. The editions are the same, just the covers are different.

That said when Hermyony (sp?) finally chooses which one of Harry and other one she wants it might be a different reason...

Don't be silly Hermione and Harry have no chance of getting together. Now, Hermione and Ron, there's a chance there for sure.

s/you/"the church"

Oh, okay. Misunderstandings for everyone! ;)

Don't be silly Hermione and Harry have no chance of getting together. Now, Hermione and Ron, there's a chance there for sure.

That does seem to be where the story is going. Harry has that Cho-Chang person that he seems to be attracted to for whatever reason. That has got to be the frostiest relationship in history.

Silly to have two different editions just for the covers. I can imagine the situation now:

"Ha ha! Look, he's reading Harry Potter, what an immature person."
"Wait, look at how grown up that cover looks, he must be mature and reliable."
"You're right! Let's give him our life savings so he can invest them properly for us!"

I dont blame the Pope - its a terrible book series that should be burnt along with a big effigy of JK Rowling - or if you wanted to go the full lenght, you needn't bother with the effigy and can just place her on the bonfire like the heathen witch she is.

Perhaps he will ban the Bible next.

I dont blame the Pope - its a terrible book series that should be burnt along with a big effigy of JK Rowling - or if you wanted to go the full lenght, you needn't bother with the effigy and can just place her on the bonfire like the heathen witch she is.

Perhaps he will ban the Bible next.
His issues with it have nothing to do with the quality of the books (the whole undermining of Christianity thing)

Lucky bastard. :)

Amazon is your friend.

I'll have access to three copies [just from my immediate family!] on the day of release.

Don't be silly Hermione and Harry have no chance of getting together. Now, Hermione and Ron, there's a chance there for sure.

They certainly *should*, but *when*? It should have happened long before the end of Phoenix.

Then there's the whole Harry & Draco issue.

Sorry, I was just thinking about the Vatican's response if that came up in Book 6. Go on, imagine it - it's fun. :-)

They certainly *should*, but *when*? It should have happened long before the end of Phoenix.

Then there's the whole Harry & Draco issue.

Sorry, I was just thinking about the Vatican's response if that came up in Book 6. Go on, imagine it - it's fun. :-)

Perhaps they will all shoot each other and end the ghastly series.

Or maybe they will wake up and discover it was all a dream they had while in the shower.

Do you reckon Dumbledore is supportive of gays? I think he is the Wizarding World's Pope - hang on....

COULD RATZINGER BE ALBUS DUMBLEDORE?

Lets pray so.

*smashes...head....with....large...brick*

Why is it that everyone instantly associates Wiccan beliefs with Satanism? Wicca relates more to Paganism. One little side note on that topic...if you follow Christianity back, it stems from Paganism as well.

Maybe according to the pope, all who are not catholic are per definition followers of the devil.
I’m so happy I don’t seem to live on the same planet as that stupid old man…

Harry Potter evill? The Pope is the one who's evil...

http://static.buzzword.com/manila/staticFiles/wallyswisdomwarehouse/palp.jpg

In combination with a story protraying magic and sorcery in a positive light, yes.

Well thats fair. A Christian group has to comment on such issues. If a book portraying something they consider sinfull as being good becomes popular it is more serious than if its unpopular.

This is the first time in history that a NationStates issue has actually predicted events in real life, not the reverse.

You know, the religious-sect-condemns-Harry-Potter-due-to-demons issue? :p

This is the first time in history that a NationStates issue has actually predicted events in real life, not the reverse.

You know, the religious-sect-condemns-Harry-Potter-due-to-demons issue? :p

Yeah, ROFLMA :D

did anyone see the cheap russian rip-off, tanya grotter?

You know I hate to inform all the Republican Fundies on this site that their First Lady Laura Bush likes Harry Potter. Here's a interview on decorateing for Christmas.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/12/20031204-14.html

Q Well, you know, every year at the White House, the First Lady gets to pick the theme.

MRS. BUSH: That's right.

Q Now, no surprise, the theme is?

MRS. BUSH: The theme this year is a Season of Stories. Of course, as an old librarian and a lifelong reader, it was really fun to choose my favorite books. On the mantels we have Harry Potter. On the dining room table, we have Alice in Wonderland.


This is good:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011111-3.html

This is the first time in history that a NationStates issue has actually predicted events in real life, not the reverse.

You know, the religious-sect-condemns-Harry-Potter-due-to-demons issue? :p

I got that issue today. I told the fundamentalists to go to h... to take a really long vacation in France.
(Seriously, I have nothing against France! I love France! Forget France! Forget Norway!)
:) :gundge:

Anyone here think that children's books are destroying the world?

About time something like this happend :p

And yes, I do believe that Harry Potter books are destroying the world. The movies as well. I hate Harry Potter. Thoroughly salt the books and burn them!

The joke would be if Bush tried to take funding away from Hogwarts...or try to tax the Hogwarts express...

The day we'll get a homosexual, female pope, I'll convert.

I'm so tired of the 90% of all christians that give the rest a bad reputation.

the 90% of christians are probabli sick of you saying that they give u a bad name.

who is the person going round sayin eighteen year olds argue over hp or lotr? how do u now the age of everyone in this thread?

"Before it can really grow properly"?

just shy of twenty centuries, a billion followers, and a schism with the rest of the world, and you're worried about it GROWING PROPERLY?

*sigh* I remember the days when what the Pope said made at least vague pretenses toward sense.
He's referring to individual children. Meaning, Christianity growing within them.

Btw:
This is in Germany and the Harry Potter book has by now only been published in English.
Therefore it rather is a surprise it is sold that often anyway.

no its been published in latin, welsh, italian and heaps of other languages

You atheists should be happy, now satanist wont try to subliminally convert you through the books.

Proof it promotes satanism:
The mention of witchcraft. Witches are devil worshippers who sell their soul for magic. There are other reasons but I would actually have to wing it since i really dont know or like or even care about the books. What is so special about a little wizard (similar to warlocks which are male witches)? I mean if everyone there was a soceror and they didnt have any satanism propaganda then sure it would be ok but then again socery is a lot different from magic.

warlocks are not male witches u idiot, warlock is a scottish word for oath-breaker (Mclean is my mother maiden name if you doubt my information)

I dont blame the Pope - its a terrible book series that should be burnt along with a big effigy of JK Rowling - or if you wanted to go the full lenght, you needn't bother with the effigy and can just place her on the bonfire like the heathen witch she is.

Perhaps he will ban the Bible next.

Oh my.

Hate much?

hasn't this guy got ANYTHING better to do?!

Oh my.

Hate much?

I was being a wee bit sarcastic.

Yeah well, the pope used to be a fucking nazi, so he shouldn't be criticizing anything. Great one, anyone German's a Nazi. Well done for the bigotry. Before you start, I should say that joining the Hitler Youth was compulsory... honestly, if the new Pope was Russian everyone would be calling him a Stalinist...

...I think people are getting confused about Harry Potter. The magic that Christianity and God holds to be evil is power taken from Lucifer... no mention of him in Potter.

Great one, anyone German's a Nazi. Well done for the bigotry. Before you start, I should say that joining the Hitler Youth was compulsory... honestly, if the new Pope was Russian everyone would be calling him a Stalinist...

...I think people are getting confused about Harry Potter. The magic that Christianity and God holds to be evil is power taken from Lucifer... no mention of him in Potter.

Actually, it wasn't "compulsory"... but it was the only official youth group in the Third Reich. If it was compulsory, how come the pope claims in his autobipgraphy that he only was a member for a few weeks?

His childhood aside, did anybody really expect anything different from this man? I'm surprised that so far he only has attacked Harry Potter... after all, he re-established the index of forbidden books a few years back, along with reviving the inquisition.
I'm catholic, but I won't have a Pope tell me what to read and what not!!

I think people take fictional children's novels way too seriously.


I mean, if people are freaking out over Harry Potter, why not freak out over Green Eggs and Ham. I mean, there has to be something seriously wrong with the eggs if they're green. Perhaps they came from a genetically modified chicken. Oh my, let's boycott the book. :rolleyes:

Actually, it wasn't "compulsory"... but it was the only official youth group in the Third Reich. If it was compulsory, how come the pope claims in his autobipgraphy that he only was a member for a few weeks?
Maybe was almost too old to join it when it started up and he became too old two weeks after it did. Or his family might have left Germany seeing what's hapening to the country.

I'm catholic, but I won't have a Pope tell me what to read and what not!!
That's good. Read away.

I actually wouldn't mind looking at the list of banned books and reading all of them. It could be fun.

Maybe was almost too old to join it when it started up and he became too old two weeks after it did. Or his family might have left Germany seeing what's hapening to the country.



:D
His family stayed in Bavaria... they are still living there.
As soon as you were too old for Hitler's youth you had to join the Wehrmacht. And THAT was compulsory.
Nice try. But it's just a fact that our current pope joined Hitler's Youth because he wanted to. I don't know why he left it, though.