NationStates Jolt Archive

I think that there are very few who would disagree with me that there exists in America, a serious ignorence of the rest of the world. . This was for me highlighted by the fact that there is in the American Media very little mention of the UK general election, which is something quite monumental in world politics in general. Britain being the worlds 4th most powerful country I think the American media needs to cover it more. I have heard a great deal of reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map. I have three questions here then. Is there a general ignorence in America of the rest of the world, why is there that igonrence and is that ignorence somehow dangerous to them in the long term. I belive the first and last of these questions to be yes. Of the second one, I am unsure.

Well, it is a generally well known fact that the American media is by far one of the MOST conservative forums for newsgathering in the world. I've noticed it, and so have all my friends. So we try turning to the other, more liberal, places in the world, such as the Guardian. But sadly, we are but a few in a massive population of ignorance. Americans seem to share one thing: concern for what will affect them within the next few days. If there is a missle coming for us, we want to know, but if there is a new President of the EU, then you'll have to go somewhere else other than the American media to find out more than a name. American media is slanted, and it bugs me, and the future of our children here is bleak without an understanding that there is more to the world than America, the countries to the north, south, and the one with the really old guy in the army uniform (Castro).

1) yes i would say there is, it is generally accepted ini europe that americans are quite ignorant of most things.
2) im not sure why this is, i think it might be due to your throwaway excess culture. im really not sure.
3) it is a danger in the long term, as i believe american foreign policy, both economically and politically, will lead to some sort of revolt in the future by the rest of the world. i do not believe that american capitalism can be sustained for much longer, as it abuses both the physical environment and other nations national indentity. which one of these factors will crack first i dont know, i would guess that global warming, which america denies, will catch up with the republican fat cats soon enough.

So we try turning to the other, more liberal, places in the world, such as the Guardian.

a texan who reads the guardian?!? you have my absolute respect sir.

a texan who reads the guardian?!? you have my absolute respect sir/madam.

:) Thanks... and it's sir :)

American ignorance to their surroundings is far worse than not knowing who is running other countries--Polls asking people where the Middle East are scary. We've been in a foreign land at war for years now and people still say "I dunno" when asked where we're fighting. The ignorance of who's running our own country scares me. Most of my friends know more about the "leaders" in their favorite videogame or the stars of their fave TV show than they do about their own, tangible government. Most of the time all that people know is that Bush is still president, and Cheney isn't dead yet.

I live here, and I'm upset at the stupidity.... *tears*

I agree that America has a near complete ignorance of the goings on in the rest of the world. We, as a nation, also have a severe lack of understanding for the customs and cultures of other people. Yea verily, even in our OWN country people seem to not even lend understaning towards different religions and ways.

Funny, over the last few days I've seen several reports on the UK general elections. I even saw a few talking heads discuss it at length on Fox News Channel. I'm not quite sure what would constitute a dirth of coverage of a foreign election. True, our newsgathering agencies are not exactly providing up to the minute coverage, but it's not like it's being ignored either.

Sorry to bust the stereotype, but American's aren't ignorant by nature. We are people too, thanks.

It's called apathy. It happens when you have a peaceful, stable, established government system. As a general statement, everything is working OK so people don't feel the need to get involved.

I for one prefer a little apathy and ignorance to radicalism and misinformation.

Sorry to bust the stereotype, but American's aren't ignorant by nature. We are people too, thanks.

It's called apathy. It happens when you have a peaceful, stable, established government system. As a general statement, everything is working OK so people don't feel the need to get involved.

I for one prefer a little apathy and ignorance to radicalism and misinformation.
So we ignore the rest of the world and think it revolves around us? How wonderful.

So we ignore the rest of the world and think it revolves around us? How wonderful.
That's better than rioting, chanting slurs, burning flags, and encouraging suicide bombers. To me, anyway. There are far worse ways to proceed than ignoring the rest of the world.

That's better than rioting, chanting slurs, burning flags, and encouraging suicide bombers. To me, anyway. There are far worse ways to proceed than ignoring the rest of the world.
Isolationist, aye? So, then I guess in turn the world should ignore us, I mean to be fair.

Isolationist, aye? So, then I guess in turn the world should ignore us, I mean to be fair.
We're a very influential and powerful nation, so it's hard to ignore us. Instead, the ROW has decided that every American is an ignorant, arrogant, belligerant, fundamentalist christian cowboy who drinks crude oil for breakfast and drives a Hummer. To be honest, that is some attention I can do without. It might be nice if they ignored us.

That's better than rioting, chanting slurs, burning flags, and encouraging suicide bombers. To me, anyway. There are far worse ways to proceed than ignoring the rest of the world.

That logic would follow if our nation was actually isolationist. But for the amount of meddling the United States does in other nations' affairs, the ignorance of the rest of the world by the American populace is very unfortunate.

Please if your going to post something negative about another nation. Spell your post correctly. Anyway I think your ignorance to the facts about America is outright ignorance in itself. I use to live in the UK. I have also lived in Morocco and several areas of the US. I can say without doubt that ignorance is widely spread throughout the world. I think most people know that an election is taken place in the UK.
As far as Europe as a whole. I believe Europeans have this over inflated view of themselves and there self importance. Lets face the facts here. Europe and the so called powers of Europe. Such as the UK, France, Germany are not as powerful as there citizens may think. Although I will say that the UK is the most powerful European nation. But overall vs the world they are very limited on what they can do on there own. So the "importance" of this election is in itself important in the UK. But check with your average man on the street in NY, LA, Tokyo, Shanghai, Singapore, New Delhi, Cairo, Brasalia and I can tell you that the UK election will rank very low in there minds.
Again the stupidity of someone saying the media is overly conservative in the US in a previous post is laughable.

Please if your going to post something negative about another nation. Spell your post correctly. Anyway I think your ignorance to the facts about America is outright ignorance in itself. I use to live in the UK. I have also lived in Morocco and several areas of the US. I can say without doubt that ignorance is widely spread throughout the world. I think most people know that an election is taken place in the UK.
As far as Europe as a whole. I believe Europeans have this over inflated view of themselves and there self importance. Lets face the facts here. Europe and the so called powers of Europe. Such as the UK, France, Germany are not as powerful as there citizens may think. Although I will say that the UK is the most powerful European nation. But overall vs the world they are very limited on what they can do on there own. So the "importance" of this election is in itself important in the UK. But check with your average man on the street in NY, LA, Tokyo, Shanghai, Singapore, New Delhi, Cairo, Brasalia and I can tell you that the UK election will rank very low in there minds.
Again the stupidity of someone saying the media is overly conservative in the US in a previous post is laughable.

Please if your going to post something negative about another nation. Spell your post correctly. Anyway I think your ignorance to the facts about America is outright ignorance in itself. I use to live in the UK. I have also lived in Morocco and several areas of the US. I can say without doubt that ignorance is widely spread throughout the world. I think most people know that an election is taken place in the UK.
As far as Europe as a whole. I believe Europeans have this over inflated view of themselves and there self importance. Lets face the facts here. Europe and the so called powers of Europe. Such as the UK, France, Germany are not as powerful as there citizens may think. Although I will say that the UK is the most powerful European nation. But overall vs the world they are very limited on what they can do on there own. So the "importance" of this election is in itself important in the UK. But check with your average man on the street in NY, LA, Tokyo, Shanghai, Singapore, New Delhi, Cairo, Brasalia and I can tell you that the UK election will rank very low in there minds.
Again the stupidity of someone saying the media is overly conservative in the US in a previous post is laughable.

That logic would follow if our nation was actually isolationist. But for the amount of meddling the United States does in other nations' affairs, the ignorance of the rest of the world by the American populace is very unfortunate.
I agree. I wish everyone in America was educated and intellectual. They're not.

It does tick me off when Europe goes off on the America = ignorant thing. There are stupid people in Europe, and smart people in America, believe it or not.

Hmm.. Seems to me ignorance is more or less everywhere in the world rather than just in America. People have families to feed and new flashy handphones to buy.

Plus the knowledge of who becomes the next UK Prime Minister rarely makes a huge difference to everybodies lives on a day to day basis, unless your British. Even if they do, it's rarely they can do something about it.

Well here on the plantation known as America our masters like to crack the whip. Well across the backs of us who still have jobs greasing the American productivity machine. Not that I'm complaining Mr. Charley!

When we get home exhausted we gel out in front of the TV watching crime dramas where intelligent police use the latest science to find the guilty and doctors use every resource to cure a patient regardless of their ability to pay. Yes, we loose ourselves in fantasy.

It takes leisure time to be up on current events and our masters like to keep us too busy to notice what's going on.

Not only is most america ignorant of the world, but it is ignorant of it's own country! How dumb can you get!?! When I traveled out west, several people have never heard of Rhode Island. "That is a part of long island right? It is."

"Rhode Island? Never heard of it. Is it like long island?"

God.... I shudder to think of how dump people get and they don't know one of the first 13 states to be founded in america.

Not only is most america ignorant of the world, but it is ignorant of it's own country! How dumb can you get!?! When I traveled out west, people have never heard of Rhode Island. "That is a part of long island right? It is."

"Rhode Island? Never heard of it. Is it like long island?"

God.... I shudder to think of how dump people get and they don't know one of the first 13 states to be founded in america.
Therefore, America is the only country on the face of the earth with a significant population of ignorant people. Your logic astounds.

Ignorance and stupidity are part and parcel of the human experience. Last time I checked, Europeans, Asians, Africans, and South Americans were the same species as Americans.

Not only is most america ignorant of the world, but it is ignorant of it's own country! How dumb can you get!?! When I traveled out west, several people have never heard of Rhode Island. "That is a part of long island right? It is."

"Rhode Island? Never heard of it. Is it like long island?"

God.... I shudder to think of how dump people get and they don't know one of the first 13 states to be founded in america.


It's a big country. :D

I think that there are very few who would disagree with me that there exists in America, a serious ignorence of the rest of the world. . This was for me highlighted by the fact that there is in the American Media very little mention of the UK general election, which is something quite monumental in world politics in general. Britain being the worlds 4th most powerful country I think the American media needs to cover it more. I have heard a great deal of reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map. I have three questions here then. Is there a general ignorence in America of the rest of the world, why is there that igonrence and is that ignorence somehow dangerous to them in the long term. I belive the first and last of these questions to be yes. Of the second one, I am unsure.
It's vastly overstated ... vastly.

It's a big country. :D

Big country full of dumb people. Did you know that a Scientific American sevey showed that more than 40% of the population still thinks that humans once co-existed peacefuly with dinosaurs? (this is a 3 year old survey.)

1. YES
2. I think it's actually a fairly common attitude throughout the world.....the US has it worse than most, of course. Most of what happens in the rest of the world has little relevence for their daily lives. If they feel affected by it, they'll know it. Ask an American Catholic who the new pope is and what he stands for, for example.
3. It can be. The "ugly American" stereotype unfortunately has a basis in reality. America is a nation of immigrants, so its easy for them to get the impression that the US must be the best place to live in the world, and that any non-American they meet would sell their own grandmother for a chance to live in the US. This leads to quite a bit of arrogance in some people.

That's better than rioting, chanting slurs, burning flags, and encouraging suicide bombers. To me, anyway. There are far worse ways to proceed than ignoring the rest of the world.
You think Europeans do these things?

I believe Europeans have this over inflated view of themselves and there self importance.
Ha! Most Republican Americans on this forum think that as Americans they have a divine mission to spread the American way throughout the world.

And let's not forget the whole American concept of "Manifest Destiny."

I for one prefer a little apathy and ignorance to radicalism and misinformation.


I agree. Dont forget their nearly hysterical bias. Aside from that,their view of Americans as being ignorant exposes just how ignorant they are.

1) Yes there is an ingorance of the rest of the world.This happens in many other nations,however the communications systems of the US make our ignorance look like arrogance. :cool:

2) The reason has to do with pecking order and perception.As long as most of the citizens feel on top of the order,they feel it unnecessary to worry about other nations.Let them fight for second place you know. :)

3) The ignorance,if not corrected will be our demise.All nations on top historically have been replaced by more motivated,hungry nations.Feeling you have the top spot by right is stupidity and will ensure your fall to second,third,...fiddle...etc. :sniper:

The Lucifer Principle can help you with answers. :confused:

Not only is most america ignorant of the world, but it is ignorant of it's own country! How dumb can you get!?! When I traveled out west, several people have never heard of Rhode Island. "That is a part of long island right? It is."

"Rhode Island? Never heard of it. Is it like long island?"

God.... I shudder to think of how dump people get and they don't know one of the first 13 states to be founded in america.

First of all: You WILL find dumb Americans in the deep south (Alabama, Mississipi, Tenesee etc.) and middle-western states. Those places are more isolated than the east or west coast of the USA. So of course, people there are stupider because education doesen't reach them as easily and 2, people of the west are used to farming and not being scientists or buisenssmen. Now, I am not an American (no, I am better. Puerto Rican baby! :D ) argueing that America is not as dumb as some people think; you will find stupid people all over the world. Maybe more in America than the rest of the world, but still, there are definatly a significantly high amount of highly intelligent people in the USA.

Big country full of dumb people. Did you know that a Scientific American sevey showed that more than 40% of the population still thinks that humans once co-existed peacefuly with dinosaurs? (this is a 3 year old survey.)

What is a sevey?Not all citizens can be as naturally clever as you I guess. :D

You think Europeans do these things?


Ha! Most Republican Americans on this forum think that as Americans they have a divine mission to spread the American way throughout the world.

And let's not forget the whole American concept of "Manifest Destiny."
I did not accuse Europeans of doing those things, nor did I mean to. I was thinking more about instances in the Middle East, where people are far from apathetic.

Manifest Destiny was a while ago, if my history is correct.

If you consider this forum to be an accurate representation of the views of anywhere, you are sadly mistaken.

Therefore, America is the only country on the face of the earth with a significant population of ignorant people.

Ignorance and stupidity are part and parcel of the human experience. Last time I checked, Europeans, Asians, Africans, and South Americans were the same species as Americans.

Egads, I hope not. From the point of view of someone who lives in the "ROW", Americans have a very high and mighty view of themselves. It's unfortunate that this stereotype exists because I do realise that there are many Americans who do not have that trait of being high and mighty, but they are, unfortunately, not as vocal as they could be.

Also, define "ignorance of the rest of the world". I may not know what's going on politically in the UK or India or China for that matter, but I do know bits and pieces of their culture, how their way of life is and so on. And I *can* point them out on a map, despite not having been there before. Would that be defined as ignorance?

Egads, I hope not. From the point of view of someone who lives in the "ROW", Americans have a very high and mighty view of themselves. It's unfortunate that this stereotype exists because I do realise that there are many Americans who do not have that trait of being high and mighty, but they are, unfortunately, not as vocal as they could be.

Also, define "ignorance of the rest of the world". I may not know what's going on politically in the UK or India or China for that matter, but I do know bits and pieces of their culture, how their way of life is and so on. And I *can* point them out on a map, despite not having been there before. Would that be defined as ignorance?
I did not mean to say that everyone is ignorant. I meant that you will find ignorance in every human community, not just in America as some people seem to believe.

I understand the "high and mighty" feeling that you describe. To Americans, Europeans seem think of themselves as superior and look down their noses at us, and vice versa. This is a function of the human tendency to form exclusive groups (nationality, tribe, ethnicity, region, religion, race, etc), and consider their group to be superior. It's another part of being human.

Can we please argue about something else other than how bad/ignorant (insert country here) is?

Can we please argue about something else other than how bad/ignorant (insert country here) is?

Lol. True.

I used to remember reading a article on the newspaper here, that some married couples don't know how to have sex. :D

[QUOTE=Riconiaa]First of all: You WILL find dumb Americans in the deep south (Alabama, Mississipi, Tenesee etc.) and middle-western states.

Tennessee is about as 'deep south' as New York is 'Mid-West'.

The stupid people aren't located in any single proximity, they are everywhere. The old stereotypes about the South really are unfair.

Meanwhile, I have lived in Germany and currently live in Austria. Europeans are no smarter, or better educated, than Americans. There are huge areas of Europe just as provincial and backwoods as in America and I would not say that the average college educated German understands America any better than the average college educated American understand Germany, or Europe.

Face it, there is such thing as Euro-trash, and you all aren't as smart as you think!

PS. saying you're 'not American' because you are from Puerto Rico is like someone saying 'I'm not Canadain because I am from Quebec'. What does it say on your passport?

First of all: You WILL find dumb Americans in the deep south (Alabama, Mississipi, Tenesee etc.) and middle-western states.

Tennessee is about as 'deep south' as New York is 'Mid-West'.

The stupid people aren't located in any single proximity, they are everywhere. The old stereotypes about the South really are unfair.

Meanwhile, I have lived in Germany and currently live in Austria. Europeans are no smarter, or better educated, than Americans. There are huge areas of Europe just as provincial and backwoods as in America and I would not say that the average college educated German understands America any better than the average college educated American understand Germany, or Europe.

Thank you! Neither America nor Europe is "superior".

The sterio types of the deep south is unfair I agree. But when I reached georga, I found 30 confederate flags hanging from people's homes on 1 street. That is sad. Confederate flag represents Slavery, white supremacy, and racism. If they think it's just a cool flag and they don't know the significance, then america seriously needs to be re-educated.

Big country full of dumb people. Did you know that a Scientific American sevey showed that more than 40% of the population still thinks that humans once co-existed peacefuly with dinosaurs? (this is a 3 year old survey.)


I think this has more to do with the fuzzy paleo-science used in the "Flinstones" than anything else.

The sterio types of the deep south is unfair I agree. But when I reached georga, I found 30 confederate flags hanging from people's homes on 1 street. That is sad. Confederate flag represents Slavery, white supremacy, and racism. If they think it's just a cool flag and they don't know the significance, then america seriously needs to be re-educated.
Did you know that in the early 20th century the swastica represented good luck and was even by some Jewish groups? Before that it was an ancient Hindu symbol.
Now it stands for the Nazis, no questions asked.
Symbols change.

I highly doubt that everyone hanging a confederate flag is advocating the return of slavery, white supremacy, and racism. Perhaps it no longer symbolizes those things?

What is a sevey?Not all citizens can be as naturally clever as you I guess. :D

I'm a "B" average student and I'm absolutely not clever nor am I always wise. It should be common sence. I'm saddened that people don't know what a simple survey is. Next thing you know, they won't know who our own president is.

I do recognise, however, that america isn't the only ignorant nation out there. Each nation has it's own population of complete dumbasses, and sterio types about other nations as well. People should focus on improving their governments education budget and raise it so that teachers could do their job well instead of having to deal with a low-halfass budget. The higher the education budget, the smarter countries are. Look at the education budget of the '60's and compare it to current budget. Also compare america's more intelligence in the 60's to now. The higher the budget, the more educated people are, the more good desisions they will make. Granted this doesn't solve every little problem with intelligence or mental capacity, but it's a step in the right direction.

This thread has a typically skewed, anti-American, pro-European (read: arrogant) spin to it.

Really, being aware (as a UK resident) about what's going on in Germany or France is equal to a Floridian knowing what's going on in California. :rolleyes:

I don't buy the hype that Brittish or German youth discuss the Tootsies in Rwanda more than American teens, they discuss the same shit (drugs, getting laid, cars, etc.) That's just rediculous intellectual masturbation on your part. Your average adult American and Britt would know equally what's going down in North Korea or Iraq. This knowledge will obviously be more affluent in cities, whether American or Euro. There's plenty of cockney-speaking hicks in the UK too, who know far more about fucking sheep than they do politics or economics, same with the samll redneck towns in America.

This is just a way that you Europeans try to feel better about yourselves, by assuming that your intelligence far superceded your American counterparts.

It's sensationalist and overblown. Ignorance exists all around the world.

It's hardly localized to our nation alone. Get off it, and come down from your ivory tower, please.

I'm a "B" average student and I'm absolutely not clever nor am I always wise. It should be common sence. I'm saddened that people don't know what a simple survey is. Next thing you know, they won't know who our own president is.

I do recognise, however, that america isn't the only ignorant nation out there. Each nation has it's own population of complete dumbasses, and sterio types about other nations as well. People should focus on improving their governments education budget and raise it so that teachers could do their job well instead of having to deal with a low-halfass budget. The higher the education budget, the smarter countries are. Look at the education budget of the '60's and compare it to current budget. Also compare america's more intelligence in the 60's to now. The higher the budget, the more educated people are, the more good desisions they will make. Granted this doesn't solve every little problem with intelligence or mental capacity, but it's a step in the right direction.
Sounds good.

Did you know that in the early 20th century the swastica represented good luck and was even by some Jewish groups? Before that it was an ancient Hindu symbol.
Now it stands for the Nazis, no questions asked.
Symbols change.

I highly doubt that everyone hanging a confederate flag is advocating the return of slavery, white supremacy, and racism. Perhaps it no longer symbolizes those things?

Now that is a bit of information I didn't know and find interesting. I din't know that the swastica flag was used by some jewish people before WW2,
nore did I know that it was an ancient Hidu symbol.

And speaking of the Nazis, I watched a film on WW2 in english when we read Night and it showed at least 20 people in a random mall that didn't know what WW2 was about, and these were high schoolers like me.
Probably around my age as well. Again, granted everyone doesn't get the same level of education or expections but that was one of the most important battles in the 20th century.

It only helped increase my opinion on how ignorant america is of their history. If this keeps up, history will sadly be repeated.

Did you know that in the early 20th century the swastica represented good luck and was even by some Jewish groups? Before that it was an ancient Hindu symbol.
Now it stands for the Nazis, no questions asked.
Symbols change.

I highly doubt that everyone hanging a confederate flag is advocating the return of slavery, white supremacy, and racism. Perhaps it no longer symbolizes those things?
You're right. I have several Buddhas I proudly display in my home that have swastikas on them. The Asian use of the symbol only "slightly" predates the Nazis. :p

EDIT: I'm in Red Florida (as South as it comes), and yeah, a confederate flag does really mean "keep away niggers, kikes and faggots". Trust me.

So the "importance" of this election is in itself important in the UK. But check with your average man on the street in NY, LA, Tokyo, Shanghai, Singapore, New Delhi, Cairo, Brasalia and I can tell you that the UK election will rank very low in there minds.


So then you would think its unfair that we in the UK and around the rest of the world had the American election forced down our throats

So then you would think its unfair that we in the UK and around the rest of the world had the American election forced down our throats
Don't blame us. We didn't stick it in a box and mail it to you. Complain to your media.

So then you would think its unfair that we in the UK and around the rest of the world had the American election forced down our throats
Well, I'd blame your media, not the US! C'mon, Captain Obvious to the rescue!

It got ratings, obviously. :rolleyes:

Our being mostly ignorant of foriegn events can be directly laid on our mostly liberal controlled news media, they would rather Bash Bush and tell us who (insert celebrity name here) is screwing these days than tell us that the UK had an election, telling us of the UK election does not further their leftist agenda

as to not knowing basic geography, that is the blame of our wonderful public school system (also controled by a bunch of leftist liberals) who think it is more important that that johnny feels good aobut himself than if johnny can add and subtract

I am ever thankful that I did not go through the normal public school system in the US and that I get most of my "news" off of the internet than from the talking heads on TV

I agree. I wish everyone in America was educated and intellectual. They're not.

It does tick me off when Europe goes off on the America = ignorant thing. There are stupid people in Europe, and smart people in America, believe it or not.

Ah yes, very true indeed. Fortunately though, we in Europe usually tend not to vote our imbeciles into office as President. We prefer to keep them reserved for Deputy Prime Minister.....although having said that, we are just about to re-elect Bush's political 'Bitch' for a 3rd successive term.....proof alone that there are more than enough 'Numpty's' in the UK.

The difference I believe is this.......the Americans (in general) believe themselves to be superior to all other nationalities because they have it drummed into them from an early age that they are the best. They are told over and over that they have the best political system. Surely that farce with Bush's first election disproves that that lilttle gem and shows it to be equally fallible, if not more so, as all other systems of government??

I think the very fact that only 12% of the US population owns a passport, and over 50% has never ventured outside of their home state is dangerously ignorant. And, as mentioned in earlier posts.....any US citizen that can't point out on a map where their countrymen have been dying for the past few years is not only ignorant, but also insults the momory of every serviceman you have lost there. Sadly, I know a number of Americans who still can't pick out Vietnam on a map. How very sad indeed.

Every country has its ignorant people, of course. The simple fact is however, those of the US are more numerous and more obvious.

Well, I'd blame your media, not the US! C'mon, Captain Obvious to the rescue!

It got ratings, obviously. :rolleyes:

You missed my point. The reason we got it forced down our throats is the signifcent influence that who runs the US has on the rest of the world. The UK is only 3 down the ladder in terms of power of nations in the world. The 4th most powerful nation in the world's democratic process deserves attention from Americans. Particually since we are America's "Closest ally". My point is that the reason Americans dont care is often they dont hear in their media. Since the media is generally constructed around what the people want, why is it that America has seemingly no interest in forigen affairs?

Don't blame us. We didn't stick it in a box and mail it to you. Complain to your media.

Remember, the media likes to sell news which is Big. Granted, it often diminishes the elections in other countries such as Australia, UK, Germany, Russia, ect. America has a larger influence than most countries. If you were to have TV in the 1800's, you'd hear more news about France, Britan, and Spain conquering another nation, or the fall of a king and you realy wouldn't hear a lot about america due to their favored isolationism at the time. We didn't want to be associated with other countries around that ime period. Finnaly WW1 came around and we were forced to realise we can't stay out of european affairs.

You missed my point. The reason we got it forced down our throats is the signifcent influence that who runs the US has on the rest of the world. The UK is only 3 down the ladder in terms of power of nations in the world. The 4th most powerful nation in the world's democratic process deserves attention from Americans. Particually since we are America's "Closest ally". My point is that the reason Americans dont care is often they dont hear in their media. Since the media is generally constructed around what the people want, why is it that America has seemingly no interest in forigen affairs?
Actually, I'm kinda tired of hearing about the UK election on the news.

Just as sick as you were of hearing about America's. Do you actually watch the US media, as much as I watch the BBC on PBS?

I am asked by otherwise intelligent Americans things like - okay, I'll summarise within the last two weeks...
'I hear you still have mad cows disease in Britain?'
'You have Foot and Mouth disease in England?'
'I hear TB is rife in Great Britain?'
'You're having problems with SARS?'

I assume it will be a could be a few years before I get asked about MRSA. I'm not putting this down as ignorance - I'm just wondering how delayed news is in the US when it comes to the UK and how big anomalous cases are made out to be. Oh - and apparently our exploding toads made it big? I was asked about that too - but as Americans, you already KNOW the answer, while we're still looking into the matter. :D

Ah yes, very true indeed. Fortunately though, we in Europe usually tend not to vote our imbeciles into office as President. We prefer to keep them reserved for Deputy Prime Minister.....although having said that, we are just about to re-elect Bush's political 'Bitch' for a 3rd successive term.....proof alone that there are more than enough 'Numpty's' in the UK.

The difference I believe is this.......the Americans (in general) believe themselves to be superior to all other nationalities because they have it drummed into them from an early age that they are the best. They are told over and over that they have the best political system. Surely that farce with Bush's first election disproves that that lilttle gem and shows it to be equally fallible, if not more so, as all other systems of government??

I think the very fact that only 12% of the US population owns a passport, and over 50% has never ventured outside of their home state is dangerously ignorant. And, as mentioned in earlier posts.....any US citizen that can't point out on a map where their countrymen have been dying for the past few years is not only ignorant, but also insults the momory of every serviceman you have lost there. Sadly, I know a number of Americans who still can't pick out Vietnam on a map. How very sad indeed.

Every country has its ignorant people, of course. The simple fact is however, those of the US are more numerous and more obvious.
Ah, I see that people who disagree with you are obviously ignorant and stupid. Such humility and understanding...

I bet there are plenty of Brits who can't find the Falkland Islands.

Americans are not unique for considering themselves to be superior. In fact, it happens everywhere. As I have already said, to Americans, Europeans seem to think of themselves as superior and look down their noses at us, and vice versa. This is a function of the human tendency to form exclusive groups (nationality, tribe, ethnicity, region, religion, race, etc), and consider their group to be superior. It's another part of being human.

You missed my point. The reason we got it forced down our throats is the signifcent influence that who runs the US has on the rest of the world. The UK is only 3 down the ladder in terms of power of nations in the world. The 4th most powerful nation in the world's democratic process deserves attention from Americans. Particually since we are America's "Closest ally". My point is that the reason Americans dont care is often they dont hear in their media. Since the media is generally constructed around what the people want, why is it that America has seemingly no interest in forigen affairs?
The media is concerned with what sells, not with what we want. Sex, scandal, gore, and heroism sell, so thats what you see on TV.

There is also a negative feedback loop: What is on TV determines what is "cool" to young people. Since foreign policy doesn't appear much on TV, it isn't "cool", so people are even less interested in it, giving the media even less incentive to feature it.... and so on...

The media is concerned with what sells, not with what we want. Sex, scandal, gore, and heroism sell, so thats what you see on TV.

There is also a negative feedback loop: What is on TV determines what is "cool" to young people. Since foreign policy doesn't appear much on TV, it isn't "cool", so people are even less interested in it, giving the media even less incentive to feature it.... and so on...

This is very true. I see it in my own school news magazine (and was on the staff for a while) and I saw similar things, though not as extream.

Heh heh heh...

I feel so cool because I said "negative feedback loop" :D

Ah, I see that people who disagree with you are obviously ignorant and stupid. Such humility and understanding...

I bet there are plenty of Brits who can't find the Falkland Islands.

Americans are not unique for considering themselves to be superior. In fact, it happens everywhere. As I have already said, to Americans, Europeans seem to think of themselves as superior and look down their noses at us, and vice versa. This is a function of the human tendency to form exclusive groups (nationality, tribe, ethnicity, region, religion, race, etc), and consider their group to be superior. It's another part of being human.

And I imagine it's also a big part of what makes Americans ignorant. The fact that your 'group' is so detached geographically, politically and socio-economically from so many other cultures, its had an adverse effect?

I would willingly lay money on more Brits pointing out the Falklands than Yanks pointing out Vietnam or Iraq COMBINED!! And that was just for an 8 week war!!

And just for the record....where did I say people that disagree with me are ignorant and stupid??

I think you'll find it more likely that people that can't read and understand a posting are more ignorant/stupid.

Nothing of any real worth is given to us dealing with the actions of men (meaning I'm not speaking of math etc., but human relations.. wars.. the intent of govenments), probably the same in most countires. It's up to the individual to seek out the truth on most things of that nature.. until the truth comes to light, if it ever does.

And I imagine it's also a big part of what makes Americans ignorant. The fact that your 'group' is so detached geographically, politically and socio-economically from so many other cultures, its had an adverse effect?It has nothing to do with geographic boundaries! These groups can span continents and oceans, especially when considering religion and ethnicity.

And just for the record....where did I say people that disagree with me are ignorant and stupid??
Ah yes, very true indeed. Fortunately though, we in Europe usually tend not to vote our imbeciles into office as President. We prefer to keep them reserved for Deputy Prime Minister.....although having said that, we are just about to re-elect Bush's political 'Bitch' for a 3rd successive term.....proof alone that there are more than enough 'Numpty's' in the UK.
You said that those who support Blair are idiots. I can only assume that you do not support Blair. Therefore, you called everyone who disagrees with you about this ignorant and stupid.

Just be happy the yanks can't find you.

It has nothing to do with geographic boundaries! These groups can span continents and oceans, especially when considering religion and ethnicity.

The only problem is, the Americans DO NOT span continents and Oceans with anything oher than McDonalds!!! Oh.....and gung ho trigger happy soldiers. :gundge: :mp5: :cool:



You said that those who support Blair are idiots. I can only assume that you do not support Blair. Therefore, you called everyone who disagrees with you about this ignorant and stupid.

No, read it nice and slowly.......I said that proves we have our share of Numpty's. Nowhere have I said everyone who disagrees with me about this is ignorant and stupid.

However....I am having my suspicions that you are, as you are displaying those exact charecteristics! :rolleyes:

I would appreciate it if you discontinued insults to my person. Ad hominem tactics are a logical fallacy.

I am disagreeing with you and you just called me stupid and ignorant. You call people "numptys" for supporting Blair.

It is amazing how we strive to be perfect yet we fight perfection every step of the way.

We defend ourselves, our countries, our cultures and our creed and then we turn to the "bad" ideas of others and attack until we feel we have been firmly established "in the right"

And then we tell everyone when they point to us and tell us how right we are and we tell them that "We're not perfect" because we don't want to be seen as like "the arrogant arses that we just put down."

My question is. Why?

Do you think you're going to change the minds of others by presenting an argument which defaces a nation of people? Do you think that people are just going to bow their heads and say "Yeah you're right we really should be less arrogant and ignorant and blah blah blah?"

I've seen a lot of people with pride on these forums and they argue quite fairly. That's reassuring but why are there posts that include the insult before stating the rest of the opinion which might be useful?

How about this.

*I think* that the US media should include more coverage of the rest of the world and that the education system should be improved because it seems to me that very little americans really know what's going on outside of their own country and they should.

No mention of ignorance.

No mention of stupid people.

No mention of arrogance.

And it stresses a concern that will lead to a discussion that will include facts and interesting arguments instead of more insults.

Or not but hey, at least you weren't insulting directly. ;)

Also, you should email the American media. They're looking for concerns such as these and you might even get an argument going on there where they'll point you to how much of the ROW they're covering, why they aren't covering "as much as they should" etc etc.

Anyway, try it out. Positivity leads to changes. Negativity well, leads to more negativity and hurt feelings.

It is amazing how we strive to be perfect yet we fight perfection every step of the way.

We defend ourselves, our countries, our cultures and our creed and then we turn to the "bad" ideas of others and attack until we feel we have been firmly established "in the right"

And then we tell everyone when they point to us and tell us how right we are and we tell them that "We're not perfect" because we don't want to be seen as like "the arrogant arses that we just put down."

My question is. Why?

Do we think we're going to change the minds of others by presenting an argument which defaces a nation of people? Do we think that people are just going to bow their heads and say "Yeah you're right we really should be less arrogant and ignorant and blah blah blah?"

I've seen a lot of people with pride on these forums and they argue quite fairly. That's reassuring but why are there posts that include the insult before stating the rest of the opinion which might be useful?

How about this.

*I think* that the US media should include more coverage of the rest of the world and that the education system should be improved because it seems to me that very little americans really know what's going on outside of their own country and they should.

No mention of ignorance.

No mention of stupid people.

No mention of arrogance.

And it stresses a concern that will lead to a discussion that will include facts and interesting arguments instead of more insults.

Or not but hey, at least you weren't insulting anybody directly. ;)

Also, you should email the American media. You might get an argument going on where they'll point you to how much of the ROW they're covering, why they aren't covering "as much as they should" etc etc.

Anyway, try it out. Positivity leads to changes. Negativity well, leads to more negativity and hurt feelings.

Well said. Be constructive. Calling someone or their culture arrogant gets you nowhere.

I think that there are very few who would disagree with me that there exists in America, a serious ignorence of the rest of the world. . This was for me highlighted by the fact that there is in the American Media very little mention of the UK general election, which is something quite monumental in world politics in general. Britain being the worlds 4th most powerful country I think the American media needs to cover it more. I have heard a great deal of reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map. I have three questions here then. Is there a general ignorence in America of the rest of the world, why is there that igonrence and is that ignorence somehow dangerous to them in the long term. I belive the first and last of these questions to be yes. Of the second one, I am unsure.
What is "ROW"? Real Often Whack?

Rest Of World.

Our being mostly ignorant of foriegn events can be directly laid on our mostly liberal controlled news media, they would rather Bash Bush and tell us who (insert celebrity name here) is screwing these days than tell us that the UK had an election, telling us of the UK election does not further their leftist agenda
Read:
The American media is biased towards whatever it thinks will raise advertising revenues. If the media truly had a liberal bias, Michael Jackson, the runaway bride, Terri Schaivo, the Popeathon, and all the other superficial (ok, so the Popeathon wasn't completely superficial, but still way overreported) crap that gets reported would be replaced by Tom DeLay, the Iraq quagmire, Bush's failed effort to rape Social Security, Jeff Gannon (google it), the bankruptcy bill that the Republicans passed a couple of weeks ago that was a massive giveaway to the credit card usury collecttrolls, the budget deficit, the falling dollar, the fact that two months ago, Alan Greenspan declared the budget deficit "unsustainable," Halliburton overcharges, Ohio "voting irregularities," et cetera.

Yet CNN spends hours reporting on a runaway bride.

Sex sells. Celebrity crap sells. Liberalism doesn't.

Americans are not unique for considering themselves to be superior.
Besides the French, you pretty much are the only nationality with a universal superiority complex.

Read:



Besides the French, you pretty much are the only nationality with a universal superiority complex.


LOL!! Top quote swimmingpool :cool:

Read:



Besides the French, you pretty much are the only nationality with a universal superiority complex.
The difference between us and the French are we win most of our wars, therefore we can be superior towards others

sigh

The difference between us and the French are we win most of our wars, therefore we can be superior towards others

Oh yeah, bloodlust, good way to show how you are superior. :rolleyes:

This is actually pretty funny when you stop and think about it.

Nationality A says "You nationality-B-ites act like you're superior and think you're better than us. Because of that, Nationality A is obviously better."

Nationality B says "God, look at those Nationality-A-ites... they think they're so superior and they look down their noses at us. We are so much better than them."

Oh yeah, bloodlust, good way to show how you are superior. :rolleyes:


Sure does, if you believe might makes right

I find it amazing that you folks can make broad, sweeping statements about an entire group of people, whether it be Americans, Europeans, or any other group, and not back it up with any evidence whatsoever. The only evidence offered that I read in this thread is some sort of "sevey" about dinosaurs and men?

I believe the definition of prejudice is as follows:
prej·u·dice ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prj-ds)
n.

1. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
2. A preconceived preference or idea.
3. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
4. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
5. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

By making these broad sweeping statements, you folks are no better than the KKK or the Nazis.

1. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
2. A preconceived preference or idea.
3. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
4. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
5. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

By making these broad sweeping statements, you folks are no better than the KKK or the Nazis.

Get a grip Selgin......it's called healthy debate!

I find it amazing that you folks can make broad, sweeping statements about an entire group of people, whether it be Americans, Europeans, or any other group, and not back it up with any evidence whatsoever. The only evidence offered that I read in this thread is some sort of "sevey" about dinosaurs and men?

I believe the definition of prejudice is as follows:
prej·u·dice ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prj-ds)
n.

1. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
2. A preconceived preference or idea.
3. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
4. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
5. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

By making these broad sweeping statements, you folks are no better than the KKK or the Nazis.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for a good dose of reason.

The difference between us and the French are we win most of our wars, therefore we can be superior towards others

I think, Renshahi, that you may find the French, along with most other countries other than the US, were fighting (and winning) wars many hundreds of years before you lot even slaughtered your first Native Indian in cold blood. :mp5:

Get a grip Selgin......it's called healthy debate!
Uh, no it's called a pissing contest.

"My country is better than yours because you're all arrogant pricks who think you're better than us"

Healthy? Far from it. Maybe delusional.

Uh, no it's called a pissing contest.

"My country is better than yours because you're all arrogant pricks who think you're better than us"

Healthy? Far from it. Maybe delusional.

Its provoked emotions in you......that either denotes you are rising to the pissing contest or engaging in debate!?? Which is it?

Its provoked emotions in you......that either denotes you are rising to the pissing contest or engaging in debate!?? Which is it?
There is a debate to engage in? Where?

Only good old fashioned sarcasm from me.

There is a debate to engage in? Where?

Only good old fashioned sarcasm from me.

Well done...didn't think you had it in you. :rolleyes:

I think that there are very few who would disagree with me that there exists in America, a serious ignorence of the rest of the world. . This was for me highlighted by the fact that there is in the American Media very little mention of the UK general election, which is something quite monumental in world politics in general. Britain being the worlds 4th most powerful country I think the American media needs to cover it more. I have heard a great deal of reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map. I have three questions here then. Is there a general ignorence in America of the rest of the world, why is there that igonrence and is that ignorence somehow dangerous to them in the long term. I belive the first and last of these questions to be yes. Of the second one, I am unsure.

No, there is not a general ignorance of the world in the US, no more so than any other nation, the world just chooses to highlight our faults more than other nations because at this point in history we are the big boys on the block.
I watched a Hitchcock movie awhile ago and saw something very interesting. It was made at the time when the UK was still considered a major world power. There was a running gag throughout the entire movie. Two British men who were culturally insensitive and ignorant of the world, who were incredibly arrogant about the UK and who only spoke and cared about the UK. You see, when the UK was the world's most powerful country her populace was routinely lambasted for being ignorant about the world and the stupidest internationalists of the time. . .sound familiar?
These insults are just one way countries less powerful make themselves feel better. I have known many USians who were wel versed in the goings on of the world and many a non-USian who was completely stupid when it came to the world and vice-versa.

There is a debate to engage in? Where?

Only good old fashioned sarcasm from me.

And I presume from that response that your answer is that you're rising to the pissing contest?? If you don't like it, you don't have to post. :)

Okay... debate.

Can we agree that it is a manifestation of prejudice to say things like "Americans are more ignorant than other people" and "Europeans are more arrogant than other people" ?

I find it interesting that the vast majority of people who take issue with the U.S. populace don't live there, have either never spent time there or have spent very little time there, and have little or no experience actually dealing with U.S. citizens on a personal basis.

I challenge all of you to find one friendly American and sit down with them for a drink, and your opinion of general Statesider stupidity will more than likely be changed to some extent.

But I would say that saying certain groups of people are more ignorant or arrogant fits the bill of prejudice perfectly.

Okay... debate.

Can we agree that it is a manifestation of prejudice to say things like "Americans are more ignorant than other people" and "Europeans are more arrogant than other people" ?

Of course......I certainly wasn't talking about those kind of sweeping generalisations.

No, there is not a general ignorance of the world in the US, no more so than any other nation, the world just chooses to highlight our faults more than other nations because at this point in history we are the big boys on the block.
I watched a Hitchcock movie awhile ago and saw something very interesting. It was made at the time when the UK was still considered a major world power. There was a running gag throughout the entire movie. Two British men who were culturally insensitive and ignorant of the world, who were incredibly arrogant about the UK and who only spoke and cared about the UK. You see, when the UK was the world's most powerful country her populace was routinely lambasted for being ignorant about the world and the stupidest internationalists of the time. . .sound familiar?
These insults are just one way countries less powerful make themselves feel better. I have known many USians who were wel versed in the goings on of the world and many a non-USian who was completely stupid when it came to the world and vice-versa.
I second the motion.

Cursed ignorant arrogant Romans!!!!

Of course......I certainly wasn't talking about those kind of sweeping generalisations.
Well good! We agree.

Now what about something like this: Every country has its ignorant people, of course. The simple fact is however, those of the US are more numerous and more obvious.
The US might have a more numerous population of "ignorants" because we have a fairly large population, but would you still say that we have a higher proportion than the rest of the world?

Well good! We agree.

Now what about something like this:
The US might have a more numerous population of "ignorants" because we have a fairly large population, but would you still say that we have a higher proportion than the rest of the world?

I agree. By population numbers, we're the largest modern industrial country so N% of ignorant Statesiders seems worse than N% of ignorant Finns or Chileans.

I live in the UK. I was in Ohio last week. I saw not one single mention of the UK General Election on TV or in the newpapers. I asked a few Americans if they knew we had an election going on. No-one did.

Just my two Euros worth.

I second the motion.

Cursed ignorant arrogant Romans!!!!

Damn Mongols and their lack of cultural sensitivity and knowledge. . .

I agree. By population numbers, we're the largest modern industrial country so N% of ignorant Statesiders seems worse than N% of ignorant Finns or Chileans.
Fair point.

I live in the UK. I was in Ohio last week. I saw not one single mention of the UK General Election on TV or in the newpapers. I asked a few Americans if they knew we had an election going on. No-one did.

Just my two Euros worth.

One thing to consider is that:
1. Honestly, the U.K. election does not have a major impact on the lives of most people outside the British Commonwealth, and especially not Americans.

2. Americans are used to election cycles coming with periodic regularity, every two years (four for the presidential election). So it's highly likely that because elections were called just a few weeks ago, the news is taking quite a bit of time to ripple through the U.S. population.

And at any rate, my first point applies to the second. For most Americans, the British election is a footnote. Why on Earth should we care about the security of a Labour seat in the East Midlands or Dorset when we're worried about the stability of a fledgling government in Iraq and Afghanistan, and our own national legislature is in one of the most ideologically contentious periods in our nation's history?

For most Americans, the British election is a footnote.

Yes. I think that's the point of this discussion isn't it?

Well good! We agree.

Now what about something like this:
The US might have a more numerous population of "ignorants" because we have a fairly large population, but would you still say that we have a higher proportion than the rest of the world?

Personally speaking, from my own experience, I would say Yes. I have travelled extensively throughout the world and I would say that overall the US does have a higher proportion than the rest of the world.

And no, obviously I haven't been 'everywhere' and met 'everyone'. This ios merely an opinion from my own experiences.

However, I put it down to the seeming lack of travel outside the US of the majority of US citizens. If the media don't report it....get out there and discover it for yourself.

I think, Renshahi, that you may find the French, along with most other countries other than the US, were fighting (and winning) wars many hundreds of years before you lot even slaughtered your first Native Indian in cold blood. :mp5:

Not to be picky Noblair, but we were killing Native AMERICANS aka American Indians. It was your country that was off slaughtering the Native Indians around the same time.

Also, as far as this thread goes, I agree with the posters who have been saying its always the culture that is "top dog" of the moment who gets criticised for being ignorant of the world simply because its most powerful. Firstly we are NOT as ignorant as everyone says and if we really are as dominant a culture as everyone complains about then perhaps it fits that we give so much attention to what is going on within our own country and not as much to the rest of the world. Finally, if anyone wants to chat about the UK elections I am perfectly happy to do so as I am one of the many ignorant Americans who don't know that it is going on.

Yes. I think that's the point of this discussion isn't it?
Yes. But if you review my reasoning for it, I think you'll find there's some practicality to it, wouldn't you agree?

Personally speaking, from my own experience, I would say Yes. I have travelled extensively throughout the world and I would say that overall the US does have a higher proportion than the rest of the world.

And no, obviously I haven't been 'everywhere' and met 'everyone'. This ios merely an opinion from my own experiences.

However, I put it down to the seeming lack of travel outside the US of the majority of US citizens. If the media don't report it....get out there and discover it for yourself.
You'll have to take into account that the US is very large. The entire EU is less than half the size of the US. Considering also that we are a nation of immigrants, you would expect a wide variety of cultures right here stateside. Someone can be widely travelled, have experienced dozens of ethnicities and languages, been to scores of large cities, national parks, mountain ranges, suburban towns, and remained within the US for the entire time.

In Europe, countries are at most the size of two or three states put together. To experience diversity and a variety of environments (natural and human) one must leave the country.

Not to be picky Noblair, but we were killing Native AMERICANS aka American Indians. It was your country that was off slaughtering the Native Indians around the same time.

Also, as far as this thread goes, I agree with the posters who have been saying its always the culture that is "top dog" of the moment who gets criticised for being ignorant of the world simply because its most powerful. Firstly we are NOT as ignorant as everyone says and if we really are as dominant a culture as everyone complains about then perhaps it fits that we give so much attention to what is going on within our own country and not as much to the rest of the world. Finally, if anyone wants to chat about the UK elections I am perfectly happy to do so as I am one of the many ignorant Americans who don't know that it is going on.

PLEASE donm't talk about the UK election. It's dull as hell!!!!

I have heard a great deal of reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map.
As a former 12-13 year old, I can honestly say that this has never occured in my presence.
There are a few people who cant find, for instance, Oman or Tajikistan..and most people who are asked to point to Georgia look at the US, but I dont expect everybody to memorize the name and location of the 150+ countries out there, do you?

Ah yes, very true indeed. Fortunately though, we in Europe usually tend not to vote our imbeciles into office as President. We prefer to keep them reserved for Deputy Prime Minister.....although having said that, we are just about to re-elect Bush's political 'Bitch' for a 3rd successive term.....proof alone that there are more than enough 'Numpty's' in the UK.

The difference I believe is this.......the Americans (in general) believe themselves to be superior to all other nationalities because they have it drummed into them from an early age that they are the best. They are told over and over that they have the best political system. Surely that farce with Bush's first election disproves that that lilttle gem and shows it to be equally fallible, if not more so, as all other systems of government??

I think the very fact that only 12% of the US population owns a passport, and over 50% has never ventured outside of their home state is dangerously ignorant. And, as mentioned in earlier posts.....any US citizen that can't point out on a map where their countrymen have been dying for the past few years is not only ignorant, but also insults the momory of every serviceman you have lost there. Sadly, I know a number of Americans who still can't pick out Vietnam on a map. How very sad indeed.

Every country has its ignorant people, of course. The simple fact is however, those of the US are more numerous and more obvious.


To me, this is a pointless post. What does only 12% of the US owning passports have to do with how ignorant we are? You seem to forget that Canada and Mexico are the only two countries that touch the US. In Europe, many countries touch one another. I don't own a passport myself but I can go freely in and out of Canada any time I want as long as I have two forms of ID. I live in Northern New York so I have been to Canada plenty of times. You also have to remember that we are seperated by two oceans and it costs a lot of money to travel to Europe and other place, at least its a lot for the average person. The only real reason we have to go to Europe or Asia is for vacations. Americans are statistically some of the hardest workers in the world, working the longest hours and taking the fewest days of vacation.
You also have to remember that the US is a huge place, larger then Europe. We are the 4th largest country in the world. Russia and Canada have many isolated places and places you can't get to by common meathods, ie car. In the US, you can practically get to any place, excluding Alaska, by car. Most of the people in the US haven't visited all the major regions, so we have plenty to discover about our own country before we go to Europe and Asia. I myself have visited most of our country but I still haven't gotten to see the northern part, such as Minnisota and Montana.
Most of the evidence that people in this thread use to point out how ignorant Americans are, are questionable at best. A lot of post have been things like "i read in a magazine" or "I saw on tv". It is ignorant and stupid to go by one thing you read or saw on tv and apply it to the whole country. Thats like saying "well since the modern terrorist are of middle east decent, that means all people in the middle east are terrorist".
As far as arrogance goes, yes, we are an arrogant country. Can you blame us though? For the country our size (300 million people), we have the best economy, the best military, etc. Please don't point out places like Denmark, you can't compare a small country like that to a large country like the US. The best countries have always been arrogant. The people of ancient Rome were arrogant, the British of the 19th century were arrogant, we are arrogant, the former USSR were arrogant, and to a certain extent China is becoming arrogant because its becoming a super power. Its just like here in the US, people from the midwest do not like people from New York and California because they have better economies and greater cities (I am from the Midwest orginially) and I would assume that people from the Southern US think that Midwestoners are arrogant (yes, there is a difference between the Midwest and South). Its just the nature of things.

The difference between us and the French are we win most of our wars, therefore we can be superior towards others
That's silliness. Military accomplishments are just a facet of a nation. I might as well say that the French are better because they have better food, wine, art and films, etc.

Sure does, if you believe might makes right
No, I don't think so. Hitler was pretty mighty, it took the efforts of two superpowers, Britain and a host of others to hold him off during WW2. Was he right?

By making these broad sweeping statements, you folks are no better than the KKK or the Nazis.
Hold, on the KKK and Nazis kill black people and Jews. Nobody in this thread wants to kill Europeans or Americans.

Hold, on the KKK and Nazis kill black people and Jews. Nobody in this thread wants to kill Europeans or Americans.

Actually, they use the same kind of rhetoric:
Blacks/Jews are inferior to whites/Aryans, etc. How is that any different from saying Americans are inferior to Europeans or vice versa? Or at least implying it by saying most Americans are ignorant, elect stupid leaders, etc.

All with absolutely no objective evidence to back any of it up.

You can justifiably say that "I visited Place A in America, and most of the people I met were ignorant", but you can not use that to infer that, therefore, the other 99.9999% are ignorant also.

...I dont expect everybody to memorize the name and location of the 150+ countries out there, do you?

At some point or another, presumably within one's more formative years, it is indeed a good idea to memorize the names and locations, as well as the names and locations of the the capital cities, of the 150+ countries out there.

And why not?

I did, most of the people I went to school with did, though I've yet to meet anyone even ten years my junior who did. Guess that got dropped from the curriculum somewhere along the line. I remember a geography exam where we were handed out photocopies of maps with no names, and just dots for the cities...and having to fill in all the maps. But it wasn't a drag - it was fun. And in the long run, very useful. Sure, some of it (the capitals, mostly) has since faded from useful memory, but the core remains intact.

If America wants continuance of its' no-holds-barred consumerite culture, it can't avoid playing a significant role in the affairs of other countries. As a significant player in world affairs, whose presence is felt in every area of endeavour, is it so much to ask that for as little as one geography exam in high school, each and every one of you and your fellow Americans might have the singular occasion to bone up on your world geography to the extent that you can fill in a blank map of the world and all its' capitals? I wouldn't have it was, but then again, I'm not American.

Get a grip Selgin......it's called healthy debate!
If you call healthy debate the throwing out of opinions, generalizing about entire groups of people, with no other justification than "I believe that most Americans are ignorant and elect stupid leaders".

I prefer healthy, and intelligent, debate, where points are made with sufficient evidence to back them up. Rarely are generalizations such as the title of this post backed up by any such evidence.

At some point or another, presumably within one's more formative years, it is indeed a good idea to memorize the names and locations, as well as the names and locations of the the capital cities, of the 150+ countries out there.

And why not?

I did, most of the people I went to school with did, though I've yet to meet anyone even ten years my junior who did. Guess that got dropped from the curriculum somewhere along the line. I remember a geography exam where we were handed out photocopies of maps with no names, and just dots for the cities...and having to fill in all the maps. But it wasn't a drag - it was fun. And in the long run, very useful. Sure, some of it (the capitals, mostly) has since faded from useful memory, but the core remains intact.

If America wants continuance of its' no-holds-barred consumerite culture, it can't avoid playing a significant role in the affairs of other countries. As a significant player in world affairs, whose presence is felt in every area of endeavour, is it so much to ask that for as little as one geography exam in high school, each and every one of you and your fellow Americans might have the singular occasion to bone up on your world geography to the extent that you can fill in a blank map of the world and all its' capitals? I wouldn't have it was, but then again, I'm not American.

Hm. Firstly, I actually did have geography examinations in school. The issue is, however, that the majority of Americans are not going to Luxembourg or Uruguay on holiday. Also, while it is true that the U.S. holds an immense amount of sway in international political and economic affairs, most
Americans are not politicians or the decision-makers multinational firms.

Secondly, I'm highly sceptical that you yourself could fill in a map of the world with all its capital cities. I can assure you that all of the Americans I know - and being a native born citizen, I'm in a far better position than yourself to attest to this - are fully capable of locating the world's important countries. I won't hold it against anyone who doesn't know where Azerbaijan is, as long as they don't point to northern Canada or the Amazon region.

We have fifty states with capital cities, several overseas territories, a land area larger than Europe, numerous regions of importance with major rivers, mountain ranges, and other natural features that we are required to learn, and we were often required in my school to provide information on when states were established. If anything, this isn't a matter of stupidity on the part of the Americans (your attitude leads me to believe this), it's a matter of curriculum.

If you're so passionate about the American educational system, perhaps you should come over here and browbeat educational superintendants into making children create maps of Oceania with dry macaroni and glue rather than engaging in idle criticism of people who are aleady mostly set in their opinion?

Hm. Firstly, I actually did have geography examinations in school. The issue is, however, that the majority of Americans are not going to Luxembourg or Uruguay on holiday. Also, while it is true that the U.S. holds an immense amount of sway in international political and economic affairs, most
Americans are not politicians or the decision-makers multinational firms.

Secondly, I'm highly sceptical that you yourself could fill in a map of the world with all its capital cities. I can assure you that all of the Americans I know - and being a native born citizen, I'm in a far better position than yourself to attest to this - are fully capable of locating the world's important countries. I won't hold it against anyone who doesn't know where Azerbaijan is, as long as they don't point to northern Canada or the Amazon region.

We have fifty states with capital cities, several overseas territories, a land area larger than Europe, numerous regions of importance with major rivers, mountain ranges, and other natural features that we are required to learn, and we were often required in my school to provide information on when states were established. If anything, this isn't a matter of stupidity on the part of the Americans (your attitude leads me to believe this), it's a matter of curriculum.

If you're so passionate about the American educational system, perhaps you should come over here and browbeat educational superintendants into making children create maps of Oceania with dry macaroni and glue rather than engaging in idle criticism of people who are aleady mostly set in their opinion?
Hear hear! And I bet he couldn't even come close to the capitals of all 50 states, which are mostly country-sized compared to Europe, anyway.

People learn what they need to learn. For example, Europeans have much more of a need to be multilingual, as most countries there border 2 or 3 or more countries where a different language is spoken. The US, larger than Europe, mostly speaks one language. If you happen to live in a souther border state, many people there are bilingual, because they have a need to know Spanish. More people in the Northern states closer to Canada/Quebec are fluent in French, though certainly not to the same degree.

Here's my perspective on this,
I am a personal optimist, but a general pessimist. Most individuals I know are good people who are a fairly intellegent. In general, however, most people are really stupid. I not trying to insult anyone, its simple fact. Almost any nation is going to have a strong majority of stupid and apathetic people, or fundamentalist and belligerent people. America is no exception. In our democracy (yes, I am american), the winner is the person who is better at manipulating stupid, lazy, fundamentalist, and violent people. Bush won because his PR and media people made sure he gave off the christian bubba cowboy warleader personality in spades.
A stupid person is actually more likely to get elected, why? Because people vote for themselves. Same rule applies in the media, hence why it seems like all americans are stupid. We are the modern Rome, so naturally, our cowboy leadership and Nascar media gets world attention.
Why else does america seen even dumber than the rest of the world? Because have the best combination of money, guns, and fundamentalism that's makes us unable to not keep bombing other countries. Our culture has taught the average american that America is better than the rest of the world combined. Hubris is that classic sign of a country that is an empire. Although, I imagine, like all the other corrupt empires of history, we'll collapse, kicking and screaming, then chaos, then another empire will take our place in the world.

We are the way we are because the majority has never disobeyed history. So stop whining about America being ignorant, because if your country was in charge, I gurantee it act the same way.

We're a very influential and powerful nation, so it's hard to ignore us. Instead, the ROW has decided that every American is an ignorant, arrogant, belligerant, fundamentalist christian cowboy who drinks crude oil for breakfast and drives a Hummer. To be honest, that is some attention I can do without. It might be nice if they ignored us.

From the way you write the last thing in the world I would suspect you of being is a Christian.

Here's my perspective on this,
I am a personal optimist, but a general pessimist. Most individuals I know are good people who are a fairly intellegent. In general, however, most people are really stupid. I not trying to insult anyone, its simple fact. Almost any nation is going to have a strong majority of stupid and apathetic people, or fundamentalist and belligerent people. America is no exception. In our democracy (yes, I am american), the winner is the person who is better at manipulating stupid, lazy, fundamentalist, and violent people. Bush won because his PR and media people made sure he gave off the christian bubba cowboy warleader personality in spades.
A stupid person is actually more likely to get elected, why? Because people vote for themselves. Same rule applies in the media, hence why it seems like all americans are stupid. We are the modern Rome, so naturally, our cowboy leadership and Nascar media gets world attention.
Why else does america seen even dumber than the rest of the world? Because have the best combination of money, guns, and fundamentalism that's makes us unable to not keep bombing other countries. Our culture has taught the average american that America is better than the rest of the world combined. Hubris is that classic sign of a country that is an empire. Although, I imagine, like all the other corrupt empires of history, we'll collapse, kicking and screaming, then chaos, then another empire will take our place in the world.

We are the way we are because the majority has never disobeyed history. So stop whining about America being ignorant, because if your country was in charge, I gurantee it act the same way.
I agree with most of what you said!

EVERYONE has stupid, apathetic, and belligerant people. America certainly does, but SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE.

Yes, elections are about manipulating the masses. Campaign finance reform, anyone?

Every nation has pride and feelings of superiority. It only becomes hubris when you're powerful. :D

From the way you write the last thing in the world I would suspect you of being is a Christian.
I don't adhere to organized religion, so you're right about that. I was raised Catholic.

However, it does tick me off when people run around screaming "theocracy!" and/or bashing Christianity. Especially Catholicism, because everyone seems to pick on them.

[QUOTE=Riconiaa]First of all: You WILL find dumb Americans in the deep south (Alabama, Mississipi, Tenesee etc.) and middle-western states.

Tennessee is about as 'deep south' as New York is 'Mid-West'.

The stupid people aren't located in any single proximity, they are everywhere. The old stereotypes about the South really are unfair.

Meanwhile, I have lived in Germany and currently live in Austria. Europeans are no smarter, or better educated, than Americans. There are huge areas of Europe just as provincial and backwoods as in America and I would not say that the average college educated German understands America any better than the average college educated American understand Germany, or Europe.

Face it, there is such thing as Euro-trash, and you all aren't as smart as you think!

PS. saying you're 'not American' because you are from Puerto Rico is like someone saying 'I'm not Canadain because I am from Quebec'. What does it say on your passport?

There are people who say I'm not Canadian because I'm from Quebec. A lot of them.

I don't adhere to organized religion, so you're right about that. I was raised Catholic.

However, it does tick me off when people run around screaming "theocracy!" and/or bashing Christianity. Especially Catholicism, because everyone seems to pick on them.

As someone who believes in the teachings of Jesus, Socrates and Gandhi I try to be tolerant, rational and try to understand the point of views of others. But most importantly, I try to stay cool.

Sounds good!

Well Quebec did try a bunch of times to secede from Canada...

I'm a "B" average student and I'm absolutely not clever nor am I always wise. It should be common sence. I'm saddened that people don't know what a simple survey is. Next thing you know, they won't know who our own president is.

I do recognise, however, that america isn't the only ignorant nation out there. Each nation has it's own population of complete dumbasses, and sterio types about other nations as well. People should focus on improving their governments education budget and raise it so that teachers could do their job well instead of having to deal with a low-halfass budget. The higher the education budget, the smarter countries are. Look at the education budget of the '60's and compare it to current budget. Also compare america's more intelligence in the 60's to now. The higher the budget, the more educated people are, the more good desisions they will make. Granted this doesn't solve every little problem with intelligence or mental capacity, but it's a step in the right direction.

Aside from a few grammatical errors, this is the best post I've read in this forum.

"The difference I believe is this.......the Americans (in general) believe themselves to be superior to all other nationalities because they have it drummed into them from an early age that they are the best. They are told over and over that they have the best political system. Surely that farce with Bush's first election disproves that that lilttle gem and shows it to be equally fallible, if not more so, as all other systems of government??" - Noblair

While I agree with your point I have to also add that I've run into my fair share of Brits who, without merit, look down their noses at the rest to the world, including the U.S.

It's part of being human. We have an instinctual drive to create exclusive groups based on characteristics like nationality, religion, race, gender, wealth, etc. We instinctively feel that our group is superior to other groups.

It's part of being human. We have an instinctual drive to create exclusive groups based on characteristics like nationality, religion, race, gender, wealth, etc. We instinctively feel that our group is superior to other groups.

Not me, I'm better than that! ;)

Actually, I totally agree with you. But what I like about this forum is that there is no physical aspect by which we judge each other. Right now I have no idea if you are African or European, if you are rich or poor, if you are attractive or ugly, a man or a woman, etc...

People in this forum can lie about who they are, pretend they are something that they are not, but if you spend enough time chatting with a person eventually you get to see a piece of their soul. And that's what really matters in the end, isn't it?

neat!! Can I sell it for anything? I've heared that souls go for alot these days.... :D

neat!! Can I sell it for anything? I've heared that souls go for alot these days.... :D

I have a great reply... but I promised myself no petty squabbling.

Heh heh heh... just my evil sense of humor at work.

Seriously, I'm glad we found agreement about that. I'm a big believer in the power of human instinct, and the variety of behaviors that can be explained by it.

First off, this isn't a complaint about the stupidity of Americunts, this is a complaint about their education system.

I've posted some statistics on this forum a while back showing that America had one of the worst (if not THE worst) education standards in the first western world. In maths, science and english (or american, as some people call it), they had consistently worse results than European or Australasian countries. I've met Americans that can't spell "Australia", regardless of the fact that it is practically considered a continent! A crappy education system, and a overly biased media, as well as a huge sense of superiority, plus meddling way too much in foreign affairs, while the public is more interested in seeing "3 people were shot in a [insert suburb name here] driveway last night", than knowing how the upcoming election in the UK is going to turn out.

After that, there's Americans claiming that they invented things they didn't even invent! It's surprising how many common household items have been made in countries other than America, yet American's claim they created them. It's unbelieveable! Even then, I guess it's ok to have a shitty education system as long as the military is seen as a great and glorious job and the military has the best technology in the world.

Then there's all this bullshit about terrorism. OK, so a tower got kamikazed, and a lot of people died. I understand that, but I don't see how it justifies going to war in 2 countries, creating lies about WHY they invaded [WMD's, connections to OBL, liberating Iraq from Saddam?] This seemingly rabid paranoia the Americans I've seen, met, and heard about in regards to terrorism is stupid. How many Americans died from terrorist attacks in 2000? 0! 1999? 0! 1998? 0!

If America stops concentrating on their military, and foreign affairs, and start focussing on education, etc then maybe they won't be the most despised country (or second most).

Ignorance and Apathy run rampant in America. (in my opinion)

That's my 2c.

I for one prefer a little apathy and ignorance to radicalism and misinformation.


Ever notice America has both?

Nobody's willing to say anything except a couple wackos...(who happen to yell at people on FOX)

First off, this isn't a complaint about the stupidity of Americunts, this is a complaint about their education system.


If you were close to making any sort of valid point after this statement, I'll never know. You've already exposed your twisted and grasping small mind.

I think, Renshahi, that you may find the French, along with most other countries other than the US, were fighting (and winning) wars many hundreds of years before you lot even slaughtered your first Native Indian in cold blood. :mp5:

Um the first US were British so the British were the ones that first killed the Native Americans.
But back to an earlier Renshahi comment, yes violence is the ultimate problem solver. Violence solves everything, if we are in an argument and I kill you, the argument is over. It might lead to more violence but hey, it eventually leads to a winner. This is undebateable. World history has taught mankind this, reason we still have wars. And please dont call me Ignorant becuse of the Violence thing, it is just my opion.

First off, this isn't a complaint about the stupidity of Americunts, this is a complaint about their education system.

I've posted some statistics on this forum a while back showing that America had one of the worst (if not THE worst) education standards in the first western world. In maths, science and english (or american, as some people call it), they had consistently worse results than European or Australasian countries. I've met Americans that can't spell "Australia", regardless of the fact that it is practically considered a continent! A crappy education system, and a overly biased media, as well as a huge sense of superiority, plus meddling way too much in foreign affairs, while the public is more interested in seeing "3 people were shot in a [insert suburb name here] driveway last night", than knowing how the upcoming election in the UK is going to turn out.

After that, there's Americans claiming that they invented things they didn't even invent! It's surprising how many common household items have been made in countries other than America, yet American's claim they created them. It's unbelieveable! Even then, I guess it's ok to have a shitty education system as long as the military is seen as a great and glorious job and the military has the best technology in the world.

Then there's all this bullshit about terrorism. OK, so a tower got kamikazed, and a lot of people died. I understand that, but I don't see how it justifies going to war in 2 countries, creating lies about WHY they invaded [WMD's, connections to OBL, liberating Iraq from Saddam?] This seemingly rabid paranoia the Americans I've seen, met, and heard about in regards to terrorism is stupid. How many Americans died from terrorist attacks in 2000? 0! 1999? 0! 1998? 0!

If America stops concentrating on their military, and foreign affairs, and start focussing on education, etc then maybe they won't be the most despised country (or second most).

Ignorance and Apathy run rampant in America. (in my opinion)

That's my 2c.

well your 2c is worth nothing to me. Great ignorance in an ignorance thread, 0 deaths of terroism before 2001, you have got to be kidding me. American embassys have been blown up many a time, and we have had the oklahoma bombings. Also just for your information my city, Naperville, Illinois, is in the top % for science, all PUBLIC schools not just private. Education is great in some parts of the country *cough, Ivy leagues, cough*

Did I say before 2001? No. Stop trying to put words into my mouth. To carnivorous lickers, my apologies. My friends often call Americans that and I wrote it down without thinking.

Vengard, I'm comparing your schools to those outside America. Your average vs their average. Your score is very poor in comparison. Whether my opinion matters to your or not really doesn't bother me.

Whether my opinion matters to your or not really doesn't bother me.
And yet you post it anyway. ;)

Of course. I like to voice my thoughts, even if no one likes to listen. Some people may call me insane :)

first let me say that i am speaking about americans in general as i was born and raised as an american and i have no right to speak negatively of other nations as i can not properly identify with them. i also speak in generalities here,as all americans are not identical either.

first let me address this from another poster:

"sorry to bust the stereotype, but American's aren't ignorant by nature. We are people too, thanks.

It's called apathy. It happens when you have a peaceful, stable, established government system. As a general statement, everything is working OK so people don't feel the need to get involved.

I for one prefer a little apathy and ignorance to radicalism and misinformation."


ok. um...yeah. americans are both ignorant AND apathetic,that is the primary reason why we are losing our rights quickly and quietly. americans in general are spoiled,lazy,and indifferent. they dont care what happens to others unless it affects them personally. they are all for kicking everyone elses ass over seas until they lose a son or a brother,then they are screaming to pull the troops home. most never ask why we were there in the first place. they swallow all the crap fed to them through the tv,provided by a slanted view generated by a imperfect system. everything is NOT working ok in the USA,but many americans refuse to see it. they are in denial. americans live in a bubble made of lies,false promises,and zealous nationalism. they honestly have no clue what the rest of the world has to offer or what actions they are capable of. americans feel bulletproof. why do you think 9/11 was such a nice little attitude adjustment and a shock? it gave many americans pause,and a healthy dose of doubt. the problem is,they let the government convince them that they need MORE government control. the patriot act and homeland security has stripped away rights that most dont even realize they have lost yet. all it will take is another terrorist attack(real or staged) for everyone to realize just how f*cked they really are. its only a matter of time. yet still they hide their heads in the sand and repeat their mantra..."america is great,america is great,america is...." it really irritates me when americans that have never left their home town talk about other nations like they know what the hell they are talking about. i have traveled abroad,and hey guys,there is a whole nother big world out dere! i didnt realize the level of arrogance and ignorance we had here until i took my first trip out. then you add to this the fact that our own people are calling the government to censor and "filter" all info that comes to tv,radio,and internet to protect the kids. we truly live in our own reality here. i honestly feel sorry for those people when the bubble finally burst. it will be a hard lesson. alot of people dont even realize that the american dollar is losing value,and that our federal government is straining to cover the growing national debt,social security,and all government backed public and private loans. its only a matter of time before the coffers are empty. in the mean time,prices will increase,wages will stagnate,and more taxes will be added by a slowly sinking government. its no wonder we declare war on everyone. war is good for the economy,and we need all the help we can get. the problem is,we are alienating our allies,and that may be the cause of our undoing.

Too lazy to read the whole thread this late at night, has anyone busted him on spelling "ignorance" wrong yet? Talk about ignorant!

Well it's said much intersting things in this post but I will just mention a funny paradox. Because if you are a superpower like the USA that want to use your powers in other countries, you need to have knowleadge and information on other countries and cultures to make correct decision. Also the public need to be inform in internationell issues so you don't have a political and econimical elite that can take care of the international politics withouth little control and intresting from the people.

But if you are as a big countries with so large population like the USA it there easy that you don't learn so much about other countries and don't see the importance of it. Like for example not many people think it is necissary to go abroad on vacation and the news don't find it econimcal to have a lot of international news because the wievers don't have a big intersting in it. So you can end up with a "blind" superpower that really needs to learn about the rest of the world to make correct desicion but because it's so large and important it don't see the importance of it.

How many Americans died from terrorist attacks in 2000? 0! 1999? 0! 1998? 0!



Yes you did say before 2001, and when I said top % I ment the world not just here in the states, you are now 0 for 2.

1) Is there a general ignorence in America of the rest of the world?
2) Why is there that igonrence?
3) Is that ignorence somehow dangerous to them in the long term.

1) Yes, there is.
2) Because people don't care? Because those who do care have to go through more trouble to round up the information? Because "stupid, ignorant" people are easier to rule/guide/influence/lead/ignore than an "educated, informed, outspoken" person? ...
3) Hope so. WAKE UP!!! Get involved and frigging DO something!

Just as an example:
I watch about 4 different news shows per day on several channels, public and private television. When I turn on the news here, first is international news, then national news, maybe local news if it's considered important, both "news" news and "political" news.
During my visits and stays in the U.S. I noticed that there is no outside world represented in the news shows, nomatter which station. It's either the president (when he has to say something bright), or the governor (if even) and then you get "news" about the neighbors' dog who had puppies, the anniversary of the local food mart, how little Johnny almost drowned in the swimming pool because he was neglected by his mommie, the local high school got a new roof, this or that Hollywood star/T.V. celebrity got married/divorced/pregnant/a kid/a new movie, and that's it.
Thank God for the BBC - at least up in NYC I could watch "real" news...
And thanks to the internet (and our German news stations for using it): They put everything online as a movie file :)

ignorance is surely a great threat. it leads people to hate strangers, to fear all the differences. Culture, and particulary geographical culture, is the better way to a peaceful world: try to understand your neighbourg and you surly accept him like he is. This problem is not an exclusivity of USA but for the only superpower on earth it's a bit worrying. :fluffle:

Well, it is a generally well known fact that the American media is by far one of the MOST conservative forums for newsgathering in the world. I've noticed it, and so have all my friends. So we try turning to the other, more liberal, places in the world, such as the Guardian. But sadly, we are but a few in a massive population of ignorance. Americans seem to share one thing: concern for what will affect them within the next few days. If there is a missle coming for us, we want to know, but if there is a new President of the EU, then you'll have to go somewhere else other than the American media to find out more than a name. American media is slanted, and it bugs me, and the future of our children here is bleak without an understanding that there is more to the world than America, the countries to the north, south, and the one with the really old guy in the army uniform (Castro).

...and the American media generally leans left... to the American left

Too lazy to read the whole thread this late at night, has anyone busted him on spelling "ignorance" wrong yet? Talk about ignorant!

There would be no point. That's just the inherent irony of NeoCannen. Once he went on a 10-page flaming spree about the proper spelling and abbreviation of mathematics while spelling it 'mathamatics' the entire time. :p

He's one of those guys who complains about a speck of sawdust in someone else's eye when he has a wooden plank in his.

This thread has a typically skewed, anti-American, pro-European (read: arrogant) spin to it.

Really, being aware (as a UK resident) about what's going on in Germany or France is equal to a Floridian knowing what's going on in California. :rolleyes:

I don't buy the hype that Brittish or German youth discuss the Tootsies in Rwanda more than American teens, they discuss the same shit (drugs, getting laid, cars, etc.) That's just rediculous intellectual masturbation on your part. Your average adult American and Britt would know equally what's going down in North Korea or Iraq. This knowledge will obviously be more affluent in cities, whether American or Euro. There's plenty of cockney-speaking hicks in the UK too, who know far more about fucking sheep than they do politics or economics, same with the samll redneck towns in America.

This is just a way that you Europeans try to feel better about yourselves, by assuming that your intelligence far superceded your American counterparts.

It's sensationalist and overblown. Ignorance exists all around the world.

It's hardly localized to our nation alone. Get off it, and come down from your ivory tower, please.


Bravo.

1) Yes, there is.
2) Because people don't care? Because those who do care have to go through more trouble to round up the information? Because "stupid, ignorant" people are easier to rule/guide/influence/lead/ignore than an "educated, informed, outspoken" person? ...
3) Hope so. WAKE UP!!! Get involved and frigging DO something!

Just as an example:
I watch about 4 different news shows per day on several channels, public and private television. When I turn on the news here, first is international news, then national news, maybe local news if it's considered important, both "news" news and "political" news.
During my visits and stays in the U.S. I noticed that there is no outside world represented in the news shows, nomatter which station. It's either the president (when he has to say something bright), or the governor (if even) and then you get "news" about the neighbors' dog who had puppies, the anniversary of the local food mart, how little Johnny almost drowned in the swimming pool because he was neglected by his mommie, the local high school got a new roof, this or that Hollywood star/T.V. celebrity got married/divorced/pregnant/a kid/a new movie, and that's it.
Thank God for the BBC - at least up in NYC I could watch "real" news...
And thanks to the internet (and our German news stations for using it): They put everything online as a movie file :)


So late at night when CNN switches to global news that isn't anything right?

You can find 18 year olds in Germany and Austria who put the Red Cross flag on Greece and say "Is this Switzerland?"

I think ignorance of that kind is a new feat of the newer generations. All the Britney Spears, (c)rap and boyband shit rots the brain away.

yah, someone made a good point... about the United States itself being akin to Europe in that each state is sort of its own country (or each region... South, Mid-Atlantic, New England, Midwest, Southwest, Mountain and West Coast)

Now I really don't think anyone on NS General is calling every North American ignorant, I certainly would not, but I don't think anyone can deny the ignorance of the country as a sum of its citizens, and I don't think anyone can deny that, while other ignorant nations exist, North America certainly is one of the most ignorant.

This may be because of their population size or education system etc but the fact still stands.
IMO, North American news services are the most opinionated and biased organisations of most if not all developed countries. And they do tend to only report on the 'good deeds' of North America or the 'good sides' of international conflict.

Maybe it is good that a lot of US citizens are kept ignorant, given their past history (http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html).

Now I really don't think anyone on NS General is calling every North American ignorant, I certainly would not, but I don't think anyone can deny the ignorance of the country as a sum of its citizens, and I don't think anyone can deny that, while other ignorant nations exist, North America certainly is one of the most ignorant.

This may be because of their population size or education system etc but the fact still stands.
IMO, North American news services are the most opinionated and biased organisations of most if not all developed countries. And they do tend to only report on the 'good deeds' of North America or the 'good sides' of international conflict.

Maybe it is good that a lot of US citizens are kept ignorant, given their past history (http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html).

so... when sources outside America only report the questionable American actions as hideously bad deeds, that's a case of showing less bias?

I think that there are very few who would disagree with me that there exists in America, a serious ignorence of the rest of the world. . This was for me highlighted by the fact that there is in the American Media very little mention of the UK general election, which is something quite monumental in world politics in general. Britain being the worlds 4th most powerful country I think the American media needs to cover it more. I have heard a great deal of reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map. I have three questions here then. Is there a general ignorence in America of the rest of the world, why is there that igonrence and is that ignorence somehow dangerous to them in the long term. I belive the first and last of these questions to be yes. Of the second one, I am unsure.

The UK election isn't as important as you think.

My daughter regularly gets the Geo Quiz on the BBC correct - when I pick her up from school, we're listening to "The World", and I've never heard her get the answer wrong. She's 12. Been doing that for a few years now.

I don't believe that Americans are any more ignorant than people in other countries. Ignorance is dangerous, but it's not a problem peculiar to Americans.

I've personally met plenty of ignorant people in Europe. Highly educated ignorant people, too.

In any case, if you think that's the problem in the US, then what do you, as a citizen of a completely separate country that no longer rules the US, think should be done?

You can't do anything about it.

Big country full of dumb people. Did you know that a Scientific American sevey showed that more than 40% of the population still thinks that humans once co-existed peacefuly with dinosaurs? (this is a 3 year old survey.)

What did you think was going to be the case given the flintstones cartoons?

What did you think was going to be the case given the flintstones cartoons?
When I was younger, I believed the idea that somehow, Europeans were more educated and enlightened than Americans.

And then, in Germany, I saw people reading Bild, and Busen.

Changed my perception forever.

That logic would follow if our nation was actually isolationist. But for the amount of meddling the United States does in other nations' affairs, the ignorance of the rest of the world by the American populace is very unfortunate.

You're failing to make the necessary distinction here, Sdaeriji:

The 'Common' American is, and has been historically, somewhat isolationist. As long as international affairs don't directly impinge on his or her life, he or she could give not-a-damn about what's happening in the rest of the world.

On the Other Hand:

While it's not encoded into the law, there is an 'upper class' in America, composed of Beaurocrats, wealthy businesscritters, Lawyers, and Politicians.
For the most part, that's where your 'meddling' comes from. Most of them know where Luxembourg is located on an unmarked map of europe, and can identify most world leaders not only by name, but by face without-a-name.

it's kind of a two-tiered system-and it's why you get those reports. Most common Americans just-don't-care, they want to be left alone, they want to go on with their lives, and when they're politically active, it's over local matters.

Wars, of course, disrupt this a bit. But only a bit. In Europe, you can travel a fairly short distance and suddenly need to deal with a whole different set of laws, customs, languages, and cultures. Being 'international' is a survival skill when your whole nation would make a couple U.S. states and can be crossed by bicycle in less than two days.

In the U.S. you can travel for a week by car, and still not be anywhere but the United States- you don't have to learn another language, and the laws & Customs are relatively uniform (i.e. if it's illegal where you live, it's probably not legal where you've gone to).

Most Americans don't Need to be 'internationally savvy' to do their day-to-day business.

You're failing to make the necessary distinction here, Sdaeriji:

The 'Common' American is, and has been historically, somewhat isolationist. As long as international affairs don't directly impinge on his or her life, he or she could give not-a-damn about what's happening in the rest of the world.

On the Other Hand:

While it's not encoded into the law, there is an 'upper class' in America, composed of Beaurocrats, wealthy businesscritters, Lawyers, and Politicians.
For the most part, that's where your 'meddling' comes from. Most of them know where Luxembourg is located on an unmarked map of europe, and can identify most world leaders not only by name, but by face without-a-name.

it's kind of a two-tiered system-and it's why you get those reports. Most common Americans just-don't-care, they want to be left alone, they want to go on with their lives, and when they're politically active, it's over local matters.

Wars, of course, disrupt this a bit. But only a bit. In Europe, you can travel a fairly short distance and suddenly need to deal with a whole different set of laws, customs, languages, and cultures. Being 'international' is a survival skill when your whole nation would make a couple U.S. states and can be crossed by bicycle in less than two days.

In the U.S. you can travel for a week by car, and still not be anywhere but the United States- you don't have to learn another language, and the laws & Customs are relatively uniform (i.e. if it's illegal where you live, it's probably not legal where you've gone to).

Most Americans don't Need to be 'internationally savvy' to do their day-to-day business.


Well said and well thought out.
There are a lot of us that need to continue to carry out our "day to day" lives to support ourselves and families. Internationally savvy starts to become more of a luxury. Unfortnately, outsiders can interpret this as ignorance or arrogance when all we're doing is living. But for Americans who are well off, or have a windfall profit, international travel often a priority. So the desire to learn and expand horizons is there.

I can point to at least one UK resident who can't spell to save his own life.

So you can end up with a "blind" superpower that really needs to learn about the rest of the world to make correct desicion but because it's so large and important it don't see the importance of it.


You dont become the world's sole superpower by being "blind". Maybe thats the opinion of the down-trodden in other countries. They have to blame someone for keeping them down, but never themselves.
We have to have friends somewhere. otherwise, you'd all gang up on us and choke us to death.

Well said and well thought out.
There are a lot of us that need to continue to carry out our "day to day" lives to support ourselves and families. Internationally savvy starts to become more of a luxury. Unfortnately, outsiders can interpret this as ignorance or arrogance when all we're doing is living. But for Americans who are well off, or have a windfall profit, international travel often a priority. So the desire to learn and expand horizons is there.

In a hundred years, the EU will be homogenized in the same way.

In a hundred years, the EU will be homogenized in the same way.

:) And the only smart people will be us on the islands.

Did I say before 2001? No. Stop trying to put words into my mouth. To carnivorous lickers, my apologies. My friends often call Americans that and I wrote it down without thinking.

No problem. People are products of who they associate with. And thinking was one of the main focuses of this thread.

I think this has more to do with laziness and the obvious agenda in almost every media outlet. From the Right, you have Fox News, most of talk radio (go Rush!), and The Washington Post while on the Left you have everyone else: CNN, MNBC, ABC, The New York Times, BBC, The [UK] Guardian, etc. What makes things even worse is that everyone is ratings hungry. Thats why you see an explosion of opinion journalism (which explain's Fox's succes) and the coverage of Michael Jackson instead of the terrorist trial that was taking place in Spain.

Yes, as Americans we do sometimes have a short memory but it's made worse by the media that fills their air time with the most outrageous and stupid things they can find just to get a little higher in ratings. News has become more about ratings competition than finding out the truth. Notice that most media organizations have little reporters everywhere whether they need to be or not just waiting for something to go wrong like someone tripping or something equally unimportant. Imagine if they devoted the bulk of their staff to analysis of events instead of just reactionary reporting.

The 2004 election was a perfect example of this. The American public wasn't swallowing the tripe that both sides were feeding them. We didn't believe John Kerry reallly had "a plan" for everything and we knew that Bush had some serious problems with Iraq. Despite the obvious slant in the media, Americans have been watching and know who is going to say what. Look at the drop in newspaper circulation over the years. When polled by the papers as to why people don't get their newspapers, most say that they go to the internet and already know which papers will take whatever side. You can count on The Wall Street Journal to favor Republicans and the New York Times to favor Democrats.

All I can say is, thanks a lot media for not doing your job. You're not there to change the world. You're simply there to report what happened, not what you'd like to see happen.

I think this has more to do with laziness and the obvious agenda in almost every media outlet. From the Right, you have Fox News, most of talk radio (go Rush!), and The Washington Post while on the Left you have everyone else: CNN, MNBC, ABC, The New York Times, BBC, The [UK] Guardian, etc. What makes things even worse is that everyone is ratings hungry. Thats why you see an explosion of opinion journalism (which explain's Fox's succes) and the coverage of Michael Jackson instead of the terrorist trial that was taking place in Spain.

Yes, as Americans we do sometimes have a short memory but it's made worse by the media that fills their air time with the most outrageous and stupid things they can find just to get a little higher in ratings. News has become more about ratings competition than finding out the truth. Notice that most media organizations have little reporters everywhere whether they need to be or not just waiting for something to go wrong like someone tripping or something equally unimportant. Imagine if they devoted the bulk of their staff to analysis of events instead of just reactionary reporting.

The 2004 election was a perfect example of this. The American public wasn't swallowing the tripe that both sides were feeding them. We didn't believe John Kerry reallly had "a plan" for everything and we knew that Bush had some serious problems with Iraq. Despite the obvious slant in the media, Americans have been watching and know who is going to say what. Look at the drop in newspaper circulation over the years. When polled by the papers as to why people don't get their newspapers, most say that they go to the internet and already know which papers will take whatever side. You can count on The Wall Street Journal to favor Republicans and the New York Times to favor Democrats.

All I can say is, thanks a lot media for not doing your job. You're not there to change the world. You're simply there to report what happened, not what you'd like to see happen.
I agree. The way the media is set up absolutely contributes to polarization, partisanship, ignorance, and shorter attention spans.

:) And the only smart people will be us on the islands.
God Save the Queen!

To help end some of my American ignorance of ROW, in your country how much of your media is either from America or about America? Please list your country becuase I am very intrested in other countries. Also if you know, what is your countries foriegn policy?

Im in the US. I get most of my news from the BBC website, and also read Newsweek and the local paper.

I never have time to watch BBC but if I do I watch Discovery World instead, very intresting stuff about todays world.

I think the reason the US is "ignorant of the rest of the world" is because the "rest of the world" is so damn far away. Those that live in Europe have to work with people of other countries on a daily basis. This means they must be involved in the culture and politics. The US is big enough that Joe Schmoe in Idaho can successfully run a large business without ever meeting a person that cannot speak English. Hence, there is no need to "learn about the rest of the world" or worry about the UK election. Is it self-centered? Yes. Is it wrong? I don't think so.

Spizzo you are 100% correct, most Americans dont do business with Mexico or Canada becuse our nation is HUGE.

so... when sources outside America only report the questionable American actions as hideously bad deeds, that's a case of showing less bias?

The case of being less biased comes from having access to both points of view.

wow pepole who insult america with a country that has a literacy rate of 5 percent way to go. the real united naitons sucks there a bunch of nazi's cuz of the french and all media in america is liberal expect fox liberals are basicly the left hand of satan fag loving limp writsted tree huging morons

"The UK election isn't as important as you think." - Whispering Legs

Prior to 2001, how many Americans thought the Taliban's rise to power was important? After September 11, do you still feel that U.S. citizens don't need to concern itself with what is happening in the rest of the world?

Indust thank you for your great insight.

"The UK election isn't as important as you think." - Whispering Legs

Prior to 2001, how many Americans thought the Taliban's rise to power was important? After September 11, do you still feel that U.S. citizens don't need to concern itself with what is happening in the rest of the world?

America wasnt effected by the taliban, Afghanistan was just an opium field. But we do concern our selves with the rest of the world, we have business in every major country. Our general public isnt effected by the ROW so there isnt great need to know who is in charge of the UK.

"The UK election isn't as important as you think." - Whispering Legs

Prior to 2001, how many Americans thought the Taliban's rise to power was important? After September 11, do you still feel that U.S. citizens don't need to concern itself with what is happening in the rest of the world?

For some people who work in the intelligence community, and whose job it is to know such things, it was important.

Even if every citizen knew what the Taliban were doing (and we did hear news stories prior to 9-11 - the demolition of Buddhist statues by the Taliban were an insight into their policies and beliefs and were big news here), there's precious little the world would have allowed us to do pre-emptively.

As for the UK, it is unlikely that Labour will lose. That being the case, the policies are not bound to change in any substantial way.

I might add that UK residents are unlikely to hijack airliners and fly them into US buildings - with the exception of the members of the Finley Park Mosque.

I think the reason the US is "ignorant of the rest of the world" is because the "rest of the world" is so damn far away. Those that live in Europe have to work with people of other countries on a daily basis. This means they must be involved in the culture and politics. The US is big enough that Joe Schmoe in Idaho can successfully run a large business without ever meeting a person that cannot speak English. Hence, there is no need to "learn about the rest of the world" or worry about the UK election. Is it self-centered? Yes. Is it wrong? I don't think so.

It is self-centered, it is ignorant and it is wrong. There are people from different cultures, from different countries in this very forum. Only the Americans wouldn't know it, because when they see a posting with poor spelling they assume the person who wrote it is an idiot and fail to recognise that English might be the weakest of the three or four different languages that they speak.

This ignorance is harmful, not only to the rest of the world but to Americans, who would rather blame their problems on immigrants and foreign nations than come to terms with the fact that they lost their job, because an American millionaire decided to move an American factory, to India because labour is cheaper there. This ignorance is harmful to American soldiers who go to Iraq and can't figure out why people are shooting at them when they are convinced that they are the executors of liberty and justice in the world. Ignorance is dangerous to Americans when they vote for a President without being aware of the political history of his advisors. (It seems that the Americans were the only people in the world who didn't realise voting for Bush was voting for a war in the Middle East.)

This ignorance is harmful to American soldiers who go to Iraq and can't figure out why people are shooting at them when they are convinced that they are the executors of liberty and justice in the world. Ignorance is dangerous to Americans when they vote for a President without being aware of the political history of his advisors. (It seems that the Americans were the only people in the world who didn't realise voting for Bush was voting for a war in the Middle East.)

I've spoken to many American soldiers who serve overseas, and they all know why they're being shot at. You haven't been on the ground in Iraq - you haven't talked to the children, or to parents, or ordinary people on the streeet in Iraq. They have. They aren't ignorant, and your world view is not "the truth". If anything, they are closer to the source of the truth than you or any European armchair general will ever be. It seems that we DID know that voting for Bush was voting to *continue* the occupation of Iraq.

I didn't see Bush invading any country until after 9-11. We knew we were already involved in Iraq - and the US voters were not ignorant of that fact.

We're just not the quitters that you wish we were - you would wish us to be just like the Americans of the Vietnam period.

Hate to tell you, but your knowledge of US political history is proven abysmal by your ignorance of the fact that no US politician can win office by repeating the Vietnam defeat - by running away from an insurgency.

No matter what the reason for the war.

Spizzo you are 100% correct, most Americans dont do business with Mexico or Canada becuse our nation is HUGE.

Then how do you account for the ads for cheap Canadian pharmaceutical drugs I keep seeing on hotmail and Yahoo?

And while you might not be rubbing elbows with Japanese and German business men, I guarantee the executives that sell you life insurance and finance your house mortgages do.

For some people who work in the intelligence community, and whose job it is to know such things, it was important.

Even if every citizen knew what the Taliban were doing (and we did hear news stories prior to 9-11 - the demolition of Buddhist statues by the Taliban were an insight into their policies and beliefs and were big news here), there's precious little the world would have allowed us to do pre-emptively.

As for the UK, it is unlikely that Labour will lose. That being the case, the policies are not bound to change in any substantial way.

I might add that UK residents are unlikely to hijack airliners and fly them into US buildings - with the exception of the members of the Finley Park Mosque.

1. I was under the impression that the U.S. is a democracy. If the people of the U.S. percieved a threat they could have certainly petitioned and protested until Clinton did something about it.

2. I think the invasion of Iraq has aptly demonstrated that the U.S. government has little respect for the opinions of the rest of the world when it comes to pre-emptive strikes.

3. UK residents are about as likely to hijack an airplane as U.S. colonials are likely to commandeer a ship and dump all the tea into the harbour. (Think IRA)

I think that there are very few who would disagree with me that there exists in America, a serious ignorence of the rest of the world. . This was for me highlighted by the fact that there is in the American Media very little mention of the UK general election, which is something quite monumental in world politics in general. Britain being the worlds 4th most powerful country I think the American media needs to cover it more. I have heard a great deal of reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map. I have three questions here then. Is there a general ignorence in America of the rest of the world, why is there that igonrence and is that ignorence somehow dangerous to them in the long term. I belive the first and last of these questions to be yes. Of the second one, I am unsure.


1, Somewhat; ROW is a big place and given that the only thing this particular brit can find to criticise is a lack of coverage of the U.K. election I don't think ignorance of foreign affairs is a particularly American phenomenon, however Americans are also ignorant of American intervention in the rest of the world both past and present and this makes undrstanding geo-political bla bla bla difficult.

2, We live in a large nation that borders only two other nations, the bulk of our trade is internal and we are geographicaly and culturaly more diverse that a lot of nations so in our day to day lives we have less need to deal with other nations or their affairs; as for ignorance of Americas role in other nations afffairs, it is selectively mentioned in media and not thoroughly taught in schools, partly because it is a large subject to cover and partly becauseour history and present are incompatible with out mythology of freedom and do-gooderness.

3, Our first type of ignorance is just a slightly bloated version of any other nations ignorance of affairs that don't affect them(I know a less war lovin party might get elected, but the coalition is just there to make things look legit and pick up some of the tab so a UK pullout would just require that the populace tow the party line a smidge harder to still think anything bush has ever done was a good idea). As for the other type we've already been harmed by it and are dealing with its conequences now and I dont feel like rehashing the whole Osama/Saudi thing or explaining why Iran isn't a democracy.

I would als like to say that if it hadn't been for british over-taxation, we never would have picked up the habit of drinking coffee and it wouldnt bee so darn hard to get a decent cup of tea in this country; and on an unrelated note you are a hypocrite and shouldn't be writing a thread about American ignorance when the only examples you can cite are same reports you've "heard of" and a lack of coverage of events in you own country, especially given the state of affairs in the rest of the world, American intervention therein, and American ignorace thereof. Fuck you and the gripe you rode in on.

I've spoken to many American soldiers who serve overseas, and they all know why they're being shot at. You haven't been on the ground in Iraq - you haven't talked to the children, or to parents, or ordinary people on the streeet in Iraq. They have. They aren't ignorant, and your world view is not "the truth". If anything, they are closer to the source of the truth than you or any European armchair general will ever be. It seems that we DID know that voting for Bush was voting to *continue* the occupation of Iraq.

I didn't see Bush invading any country until after 9-11. We knew we were already involved in Iraq - and the US voters were not ignorant of that fact.

We're just not the quitters that you wish we were - you would wish us to be just like the Americans of the Vietnam period.

Hate to tell you, but your knowledge of US political history is proven abysmal by your ignorance of the fact that no US politician can win office by repeating the Vietnam defeat - by running away from an insurgency.

No matter what the reason for the war.


I apologise for not being clearer. When I said that voting for Bush was a vote to go to war I was talking about the 2000 election. Regarding the soldiers who don't know why they are fighting, I am referring to news footage broadcasted by several U.S. networks including FOX, showcasing confused soldiers who said on camera that they can't figure out why these people are shooting at us when "we are only trying to help them".

1. I was under the impression that the U.S. is a democracy. If the people of the U.S. percieved a threat they could have certainly petitioned and protested until Clinton did something about it.

As I recall, everyone else in the world was quite upset when the US did something pre-emptive in Iraq. No nation on earth would have agreed to let the US annihilate the Taliban and conquer Afghanistan on mere "evidence" that some people friendly with the Taliban were "planning" to fly planes into buildings.

2. I think the invasion of Iraq has aptly demonstrated that the U.S. government has little respect for the opinions of the rest of the world when it comes to pre-emptive strikes.

That's because if you wait for UN permission, and your "evidence" turns out to be right, a lot of Americans end up dead. So we act on the "evidence" even if it's wrong.

3. UK residents are about as likely to hijack an airplane as U.S. colonials are likely to commandeer a ship and dump all the tea into the harbour. (Think IRA)
The IRA is quite unlikely to do so. They've had decades to do something that daft, and they would have done it in London first.

why is there that igonrence and is that ignorence somehow dangerous to them in the long term. Of the second one, I am unsure.[/QUOTE]

There is ignorance because we don't feel like we need to know about the rest of the world because we are the most powerful country in the world and thereby everything else and anybody else in it doesn't matter. Europeans are always better about covering world events whenever I get assigned current events quizzes in social studies the first place i go is BBC news and i like it much better than cnn or anything like that much more stuff on those topics. I mean the entire episode about the U.N. declaring Sudan was a genocide was missed by the American media because we're to wrapped up as Americans about what we're involved in this is where the ignorance comes from and it cannot be good.

"America wasnt effected by the taliban, Afghanistan was just an opium field." - Vengard

Give me one good reason why this isn't an ignorant statement.

"But we do concern ourselves with the rest of the world, we have business in every major country. Our general public isnt effected by the ROW so there isnt great need to know who is in charge of the UK." - Vengard

So if there is an outbreak of a contagious disease in a country that supplies the U.S. with bananas, mangos, coffee or other food products the general public isn't affected?

So if there is an outbreak of a contagious disease in a country that supplies the U.S. with bananas, mangos, coffee or other food products the general public isn't affected?

You seem to be of the opinion that unless EVERY American is constantly aware of all of the world's problems, that America is in peril.

Division of labor. People who work in the relevant fields tend to be the most knowledgeable. And people get notified when it's necessary.

Take our Pacific Tsunami Warning Network. It's not necessary for me to log on to their site at all hours watching for tsunami activity. They will call an alert if it's necessary.

Without Googling, are you aware of the exact death count so far in the Marburg outbreak in Angola? Why not? A person could get on the plane and land in your country tomorrow night.

Get real.

So if there is an outbreak of a contagious disease in a country that supplies the U.S. with bananas, mangos, coffee or other food products the general public isn't affected?

Sure, but if there is an outbreak of a civil war in a country that supplies the U.S. with bananas, mangos, coffee or other food products then the prices goes up a few pennies per pound and we talk about the effect on Dole or Folgers' stock prices.

As I recall, everyone else in the world was quite upset when the US did something pre-emptive in Iraq. No nation on earth would have agreed to let the US annihilate the Taliban and conquer Afghanistan on mere "evidence" that some people friendly with the Taliban were "planning" to fly planes into buildings.


That's because if you wait for UN permission, and your "evidence" turns out to be right, a lot of Americans end up dead. So we act on the "evidence" even if it's wrong.


The IRA is quite unlikely to do so. They've had decades to do something that daft, and they would have done it in London first.

Prior to Sept 11, Al Quaeda had attacked the U.S.S. Cole, made previous attempts to destroy the WTC, and attacked U.S. Embassies in other countries. What attacks did Saddam Hussein make that rationalize a pre-emptive strike in Iraq when no action was taken against the Taliban until after Sept 11?

The IRA example was used to show the importance of keeping informed. The truth is I doubt the IRA will ever launch an attack on American soil, but I guess neither of us will ever know this, unless something happens to us directly, or we keep informed.

You seem to be of the opinion that unless EVERY American is constantly aware of all of the world's problems, that America is in peril.

Division of labor. People who work in the relevant fields tend to be the most knowledgeable. And people get notified when it's necessary.

Take our Pacific Tsunami Warning Network. It's not necessary for me to log on to their site at all hours watching for tsunami activity. They will call an alert if it's necessary.

Without Googling, are you aware of the exact death count so far in the Marburg outbreak in Angola? Why not? A person could get on the plane and land in your country tomorrow night.

Get real.

I believe that the greatest threat to world democracy is America's military industrial complex. As Americans are part of the world this includes them too. There have been people who assert on this thread that ignorant people live throughout the world, and I agree. But it is the American government that has established itself as a world leader and so the people who are in the best position to keep this power in check is the American people. To do so they must be informed.

Sure, but if there is an outbreak of a civil war in a country that supplies the U.S. with bananas, mangos, coffee or other food products then the prices goes up a few pennies per pound and we talk about the effect on Dole or Folgers' stock prices.

Actually the price doesn't rise at all, because Dole, Delmonte, Chiquita Brands, Proctor and Gamble, Nestle and Coca Cola exploit their workers to such a degree that when political problems arise in one country they simply pack up and go to another. This is why they are called multi-national corporations. They don't see the world in terms of nationality or ethnicity, they simply look at which places in the world are the best to exploit at the moment and when they need a new place to exploit they'll have no problems sending you or your children to kill or be killed in a foreign land so they can continue to be rich.

How They See Others:

"Only 10% of Americans own passports. They don't need them. An American can travel for a week and still be on home turf. The fact that everyone that lives within 3,000 miles of an American is also an American gives the average citizen a seriously provincial point of view. Because Americans visit foreign countries so seldom (Canada doesn't count), they assume that people all over the world are just like themselves, except for not speaking English or having decent showers.

"Some Americans believe that foreign natives really do speak English (they study in school, you know), but refuse to do so out of prejudice. The delusion that 'they're just like us except for their language, food and clothing' comes from the reality that nearly all Americans descend from foreign immigrants. Thus people in other countries aren't really aliens, they're just potential Americans, or rather, potential hyphenated-Americans."

Character:

"Like every other nation, America thinks it's the best country in the world. The difference is that Americans have proof: people from all over the globe really do make enormous sacrifices to come to the United States, often risking their lives in the process. What more evidence is needed?"

I believe that the greatest threat to world democracy is America's military industrial complex. As Americans are part of the world this includes them too. There have been people who assert on this thread that ignorant people live throughout the world, and I agree. But it is the American government that has established itself as a world leader and so the people who are in the best position to keep this power in check is the American people. To do so they must be informed.

Informed by your warped view of what's going on in Iraq at the street level, or by what our soldiers see there?

And why doesn't the EU form a large military and intervene overseas when necessary or for its own interests? I believe that such a rich set of nations is morally bankrupt for not doing so - and then demanding that the US take action or not take action.

Sudan is a good case in point.

Sudan is a good case in point.


Damn skippy

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-sudan29apr29,0,6605677.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Ah hahaha ha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha , you dipshit.

Informed by your warped view of what's going on in Iraq at the street level, or by what our soldiers see there?

And why doesn't the EU form a large military and intervene overseas when necessary or for its own interests? I believe that such a rich set of nations is morally bankrupt for not doing so - and then demanding that the US take action or not take action.

Sudan is a good case in point.

and thinking that "the greatest threat to world democracy is America's military industrial complex'' refers only to Iraq and not all the times the US has stopped democracy arround the world or it's support for undemocratic regimes that are fending off pro-democracy movements, is pretty damn funny to.

Sorry to bust the stereotype, but American's aren't ignorant by nature. We are people too, thanks.

It's called apathy. It happens when you have a peaceful, stable, established government system. As a general statement, everything is working OK so people don't feel the need to get involved.

I for one prefer a little apathy and ignorance to radicalism and misinformation.Oh dear... :( this represents a large part of America. I represent the other part.

Nothing about our government right now is peaceful, we're at war. Our current government is not stable to say the very least, and most things are not working okay. Any American that believes this is unaware of politics, and should probably change the channel from Dr. Phil to the news. What with national debt, lack of employment, cutting of social services, pharmaceutical & energy extortion, raping and future raping of the earth, living in fear of terrorism constantly shoved down our throats by our bullshit leader, moral politics... I could go on all day.

I am American, and I love to watch Parliament on CSPAN2 *cough*, your debates are so reasonable and your politicians have so much compassion that I wonder if I might be living in the wrong place. Although, I will have to admit that I had no idea that you were in the middle of an election. So you are correct in blaming the media for that. But thank you for this thread because now I know.

As far as apathy goes, there is a problem that Americans don't really care about what goes on in politics in their own country. All they seem to care about is that abortion is wrong, gay marriage is wrong, God is right, and they are right even if what they believe has no basis of fact or information.

We are indeed witnessing the fall of the US, but it is good for us. Things are going to have to get REALLY bad, a lot of people will probably have to die, and we will have to dive into a depression as a nation before we can come back up together. That is so unfortunate for me. I am 30 and want to start a family in the next 10 years and it's going to be really hard.

Anyway, I voted for John Kerry. :headbang:

Yes, America is very ignorant of the rest of the World, especially when it comes to countries outside of the Americas. Is this a serious risk to itself? Maybe in the very long term. Here are some of my thoughts on why this may be. Please note, that this is not an attempt to excuse American's shameful ignorance, it is merely an attempt to explain it.

1) American Culture is all about making green, and what pupils take out of the education system reflects this. The pursuit of knowledge is generally believed to be for the sole purpose of making loads of money. Therefore less emphasis is placed on subjects such as world history and geography, that do not lead directly onto a high paid career such as law or medecine. You mentioned reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map. But I would imagine that american children would know a lot more about inflation, interest rates, copyright laws, patents, and tax deductions than their European counter-parts. In fact this bias in Americans pursuit of knowledge goes so far, that any subject that is not directly related to making money is considered boring and geeky, which is a shame because I believe the opposite to be true.

2) The United States is a huge country. This nation has just about every climate you can imagine; arctic, desert, mediterranean, plains, tropical, and temperate. It also has a lot of diversity when it comes to people, races, languages, ethnicities and religions. Therefore there is so much to learn about and visit within the country itself without ever needing to leave. Why go to Spain when you can go to California? Why go to Iceland when you can go to Alaska? Why go to the Alps when you can go to the Rockies? Why London when you can go to New York? Why go to Ipanema Beach in Rio when you can go to South Beach in Miami? (Obviously I can think of lots of reasons why, but most Americans dont see it this way) Therefore if you dont need to go to leave the US, and there is so much to learn about in the US, why bother leaving? And if you never leave then naturally you wont broaden your horizons and will never appreciate just how much more there is out there.

3) Thirdly, the US is a nation of immigrants, many of them poor immigrants who came to the US without an educational background. Thus the importance of knowledge and culture is some what lacking in many family traditions.

4) Finaly, I would put forward the notion that, whilst Americans are very ignorant of say, Europe. How knowledgable are Europeans of America? I bet most Europeans can name the capitals of the UK, France, Italy, and Spain, but can they name the capitals of New York, California, Texas, and Florida?
Thus, to some extent, cross-atlantic ignorance cuts both ways (but probably not in equal proportions).

Vengard, I gave 3 years before. I didn't say "Before 2001".

Carthage and Troy: California etc aren't countries. They're states. I bet that you couldn't name the capitals of all the states and territories in Australia (and there really aren't that many).

Australia is also a country of immigrants, many of them poor aswell. A large percentage of Australian kids still know the capitals of a lot of foriegn countries and can place them on a map.

I think that a few points have been missed here. We cannot blame the American media for American ignorance. America's igornace of world affairs, and even American affairs, is a development of American culture. You say that Amercan's only want to learn if the subject matter involves making money, yet many American teenagers could not give correct change with out a calculator. It is the culture we have created that is to blame for this. Young Americans simply put do not want to learn anything, they are more concerned with the latest basketball highlights and music videos. We as Americans fail to see the profit in hard work and knowlege, all we see is Lebron "King" James making millions at just over 20 years old. America has begun and will continue to fall down the slippery slope of economic and political decay until it finally realizes that knowlege is the basis of power, money and force are simply messengers of power.

California etc aren't countries. They're states. I bet that you couldn't name the capitals of all the states and territories in Australia (and there really aren't that many).

No, I couldn't, but then I am not American, I am British by Nationality.

I think that a few points have been missed here. We cannot blame the American media for American ignorance. America's igornace of world affairs, and even American affairs, is a development of American culture. ...

That's valid. If we get news that is sensational instead of insighful it's because thats what gets ratings. That's capitalism. When we start demanding better news we'll get it.

Young Americans simply put do not want to learn anything, they are more concerned with the latest basketball highlights and music videos.

That's crap. Plenty of children and young adults want to and do learn. I've been out of high school for a decade but i doubt that much has changed. We still have honor societies, straight A students and the more common A&B students. We also still go to college. With many of us paying our own way. If many kids can't make change without a calculator it's because schools have become lax about such skills. Most likely because students have much more to learn today than they did 50 or even 20 years ago. My generation was taking computer classes in grade school. Plus all those character building session. uhg.

4) Finaly, I would put forward the notion that, whilst Americans are very ignorant of say, Europe. How knowledgable are Europeans of America? I bet most Europeans can name the capitals of the UK, France, Italy, and Spain, but can they name the capitals of New York, California, Texas, and Florida?
Thus, to some extent, cross-atlantic ignorance cuts both ways (but probably not in equal proportions).


This is the main problem. Many europeans in here THINK they are knowledgeable about Amercia. After all, they scan reuters and watch the BBC, so they're virtual scholars on Amercia. Maybe Amercians know what they need to know to carry out their day to day living. We dont pretend to have a grasp of the european economy or politics. Europeans, however, portray and intimate knowledge of America on every level. How smug and arrogant.

This is the main problem. Many europeans in here THINK they are knowledgeable about Amercia. After all, they scan reuters and watch the BBC, so they're virtual scholars on Amercia. Maybe Amercians know what they need to know to carry out their day to day living. We dont pretend to have a grasp of the european economy or politics. Europeans, however, portray and intimate knowledge of America on every level. How smug and arrogant.

Maybe I should hold them to the same level they hold me. As an example, if an American hasn't traveled to Europe, they automatically consider you ignorant. Well, I've traveled all (and lived for some time) over Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Central America, India, China, Singapore, and South Korea.

So, from now on, if you're a European, and you haven't been to the US other than for a short vacation, I'll go ahead and say it's not possible (using the same standard in reverse) for you to know America.

Maybe I should hold them to the same level they hold me. As an example, if an American hasn't traveled to Europe, they automatically consider you ignorant. Well, I've traveled all (and lived for some time) over Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Central America, India, China, Singapore, and South Korea.

So, from now on, if you're a European, and you haven't been to the US other than for a short vacation, I'll go ahead and say it's not possible (using the same standard in reverse) for you to know America.

I think the issue is the fact that Europeans IN GENERAL genuinely do know more about the USA than Americans IN GENERAL know about Europe (or indeed anywhere "overseas"). The American medias reporting of foreign and international affairs is notoriously scant. Thus, it is only those small numbers of Americans (and I'm sure we are fortunate that many of them are those Americans that contribute here) that actively seek out news from foreign sources (e.g. BBC etc) on world affairs. On the other hand, the European population is IN GENERAL far more exposed to events in the USA, as European media features far more international news stories.

Another factor is that many many Europeans can understand English and therefore can read American news sources and interact with Americans. Comparitively few Americans can speak other European languages, therefore they do not have access to many (most) European news outlets covering European news and events.

I think it stems from the fact that america is all US people care about, and that a lot of americans are not really affected by the rest of the world does. Where as Europe, Middle East, Asia, and Aus/NZ are very affected by the world due to america's influence.
For example, Americans do not really care who is British PM because americans are not really affected by it. the change of PM in the UK is only going to affect a significant amount of americans by their war stance.
For example some americans do not know even all 50 states of america, and an australian program went to ameica with a world map and asked them to place an absent australia on it. All of them thought Australia is between the UK and US or Africa and South AMerica. Look at jaywalking or any street questioning on TVs the american's lack of knowledge about america is abysmal, let alone the rest of the world. I have to admit some of that is damn funny though.

With all the stuff I've read on this forum, I'd say that it's the rest of the world being ignorant of the United States.

I think it stems from the fact that america is all US people care about, and that a lot of americans are not really affected by the rest of the world does. Where as Europe, Middle East, Asia, and Aus/NZ are very affected by the world due to america's influence.
For example, Americans do not really care who is British PM because americans are not really affected by it. the change of PM in the UK is only going to affect a significant amount of americans by their war stance.
For example some americans do not know even all 50 states of america, and an australian program went to ameica with a world map and asked them to place an absent australia on it. All of them thought Australia is between the UK and US or Africa and South AMerica. Look at jaywalking or any street questioning on TVs the american's lack of knowledge about america is abysmal, let alone the rest of the world. I have to admit some of that is damn funny though.

All of them they showed you on tv didn't know where it was, the USians who knew exactly where it is were not shown because they didn't fit the image the tv show producers wanted to give.
Who are the bigger dullards, the people who help create propaganda or the people who believe it?

Maybe I should hold them to the same level they hold me. As an example, if an American hasn't traveled to Europe, they automatically consider you ignorant. Well, I've traveled all (and lived for some time) over Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Central America, India, China, Singapore, and South Korea.

So, from now on, if you're a European, and you haven't been to the US other than for a short vacation, I'll go ahead and say it's not possible (using the same standard in reverse) for you to know America.

I'm an american and i thinbk you are ignorant because you cited a the sudan, a situation in which the unite states is colaborating with a genocidal regime as an example of why american policy is better than european non-intervention. I fail to see how aiding genocidal despots is preferable to not aiding genocidal despots. perhaps you can enlighten me? Perhaps you could have the decency to respond?

Its fine with me if the Americans do not give a damn about the British General Election - just don't come crying to us when our government doesn't send our troops to bleed on another American mission to expand American oil reserves.

Whatever government gets elected, it would be political suicide for a British Prime Minister to support any American war within the next twenty years. Blair is very lucky that the economy is doing alright (at the moment) - otherwise he would have been chucked out for the Iraq war. If its a Labour or Lib Dem government, then this is doubly likely as they won't want to ruin British-European relations like the last war did.

I look forward to when America asks for our troops and we get the great honour of saying no.

All of them they showed you on tv didn't know where it was, the USians who knew exactly where it is were not shown because they didn't fit the image the tv show producers wanted to give.
Who are the bigger dullards, the people who help create propaganda or the people who believe it?

Our own education institutions gather statistics on school children's performance. Things like 42% of children with at least a 5th grade education are unable to find the Pacific ocean on a map. Assuming that it's not a road map of Newark that's pretty sad, and not propoganda.

Just because you can see how such material could be manipulated for propoganda purposes, that doesn't mean that it is, nor that you're in a position to call anyone else a dullard just because you think that the state of things reflects badly on our country.

Its fine with me if the Americans do not give a damn about the British General Election - just don't come crying to us when our government doesn't send our troops to bleed on another American mission to expand American oil reserves.

Whatever government gets elected, it would be political suicide for a British Prime Minister to support any American war within the next twenty years. Blair is very lucky that the economy is doing alright (at the moment) - otherwise he would have been chucked out for the Iraq war. If its a Labour or Lib Dem government, then this is doubly likely as they won't want to ruin British-European relations like the last war did.

I look forward to when America asks for our troops and we get the great honour of saying no.


Dont count on it in our lifetimes.

Our own education institutions gather statistics on school children's performance. Things like 42% of children with at least a 5th grade education are unable to find the Pacific ocean on a map. Assuming that it's not a road map of Newark that's pretty sad, and not propoganda.

Just because you can see how such material could be manipulated for propoganda purposes, that doesn't mean that it is, nor that you're in a position to call anyone else a dullard just because you think that the state of things reflects badly on our country.

42% of what children? Where are these stats gathered? Sadly it makes a difference. I'm sure that results gathered from my meduim sized city in Iowa would differ quite a bit from those of inner city Chicago students. There no doubt That the American school systems have flaws but I suspect that the 42% figure could be a case of "man bites dog".

I think a lot of Americans are pretty retarded and probably dont know what the Eu is. But I think there is a large minority that cares a lot about global politics and are quit intelligent. I think debaters in general are very very knowledgeable about the rest of the world because they spend everyday reading all kinds of different internet articles i.e. guardian, bbc, aljazeera, mail and guardian, foreign affairs, and probably 40 other international sources and then goes on to give speeches on the ROW every single weekend :)

oh by the way these are American high school debaters .......probably numbered in the 50 thousand range

Most of my fellow Americans ( the ones I meet everyday, not the NSers) seem abysmally stupid. But that's alright, 'cause it makes the fools think I'm smart. :p

"Only 10% of Americans own passports. They don't need them. An American can travel for a week and still be on home turf." - The Eternal Kawaii

The same can be said of Canada, Russia and China. (Which are larger than the U.S.)

"The fact that everyone that lives within 3,000 miles of an American is also an American gives the average citizen a seriously provincial point of view." - The Eternal Kawaii

This is true, if you include, African Americans, Latin Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans...

"Because Americans visit foreign countries so seldom (Canada doesn't count)," - The Eternal Kawaii

Maybe it should.

"...they assume that people all over the world are just like themselves, except for not speaking English or having decent showers." - The Eternal Kawaii

How many countries have you showered in?

"Some Americans believe that foreign natives really do speak English (they study in school, you know), but refuse to do so out of prejudice." - The Eternal Kawaii

I'm Canadian, I speak perfect English, but while travelling abroad I encountered an American who was so obnoxious that I pretended I didn't understand him.

"The delusion that 'they're just like us except for their language, food and clothing' comes from the reality that nearly all Americans descend from foreign immigrants." - The Eternal Kawaii

The only ones who didn't are living below the poverty line on reservations.

"Like every other nation, America thinks it's the best country in the world. The difference is that Americans have proof: people from all over the globe really do make enormous sacrifices to come to the United States, often risking their lives in the process. What more evidence is needed?" - The Eternal Kawaii

The U.S. is not the only country that accepts refugees, and there are plenty of Americans looking for work in foreign countries.

You dont become the world's sole superpower by being "blind". Maybe thats the opinion of the down-trodden in other countries. They have to blame someone for keeping them down, but never themselves.
We have to have friends somewhere. otherwise, you'd all gang up on us and choke us to death.

Sorry for answerign so late: Well I didn't say that you get to be a superpower by being blind. The reason a countries gets to be a superpower is very many diffrents ones, that can be debated in another thread. But a good booktips is "the origin of the modern world" by Robert B. Marks.

But if you get so powerfull as the USA and have a so big population almost 300 millions, the interest for other countries can diminish. Ecpecially if you have a capitalist media that see the lacking interest in foreign affairs and therefore don't air so much foreign news, that leads to even less interest, creating a vicious circle. And that this can be a big problem because for example USA as a superpower have a very big affect on the world and therefor the american people should be informed and see foreign affairs as a important issue. I don't like personalatack but I would say that you show some paranoi or atleast mistrust about the rest of the world, so maybee you should learn more about the world, and see that most of us are nice.

"Yes, America is very ignorant of the rest of the World, especially when it comes to countries outside of the Americas. Is this a serious risk to itself? Maybe in the very long term. Here are some of my thoughts on why this may be. Please note, that this is not an attempt to excuse American's shameful ignorance, it is merely an attempt to explain it." - Carthage and Troy

Unfortunately people use these explanations as an excuse.


"1) American Culture is all about making green, and what pupils take out of the education system reflects this. The pursuit of knowledge is generally believed to be for the sole purpose of making loads of money. Therefore less emphasis is placed on subjects such as world history and geography, that do not lead directly onto a high paid career such as law or medecine. You mentioned reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map. But I would imagine that american children would know a lot more about inflation, interest rates, copyright laws, patents, and tax deductions than their European counter-parts." - Carthage and Troy

While there are millions of children who do not recieve an education in third world countries, those that do have a superior eductaion to most American public school students. This is primarily because they have a respect for education and a respect for their teachers. I have spoken to many American teachers who have taught and are currently teaching in third world countries and they are impressed by the attention and respect the children give to them.


"2) The United States is a huge country. This nation has just about every climate you can imagine; arctic, desert, mediterranean, plains, tropical, and temperate. It also has a lot of diversity when it comes to people, races, languages, ethnicities and religions. Therefore there is so much to learn about and visit within the country itself without ever needing to leave." -Carthage and Troy

While the U.S. is one of the largest countries in the world, it is not the only country that possesses a diversity of landscapes. On a recent trip to Colombia I encountered snow capped mountains, lush tropical rain forests, arid deserts, mangroves, swamps, and white sand beaches. I was also surprised to discover that not only are there people of European, African and Native American ancestry, but there are a lot of people of Oriental and Indian extract as well. And, unlike the U.S., there are communities of Africans who still speak Bantu, and Native Americans who speak various dialects including Chibcha, Wayuu and Quechua.


"Why go to Spain when you can go to California? Why go to Iceland when you can go to Alaska? Why go to the Alps when you can go to the Rockies? Why London when you can go to New York? Why go to Ipanema Beach in Rio when you can go to South Beach in Miami?" - Carthage and Troy

Someone from China can make the same arguement regarding Mongolia, the Himalayans and Hong Kong.


"3) Thirdly, the US is a nation of immigrants, many of them poor immigrants who came to the US without an educational background. Thus the importance of knowledge and culture is some what lacking in many family traditions." - Carthage and Troy

It is the immigrants who are responsible for importing culture to American society. The vast majority of American music (including New Country) is influenced by Africans. Most the best directors and actors in Hollywood are foreigners. Even the name, American, by which they address themselves is imported. From my own personal experience I would say that it is the hyphenated, second generation Americans who are more informed about the rest of the world (through their own family history) than those who think that only the ancestors of Anglo-Saxons have the right to call themselves American.


"4) Finaly, I would put forward the notion that, whilst Americans are very ignorant of say, Europe. How knowledgable are Europeans of America? I bet most Europeans can name the capitals of the UK, France, Italy, and Spain, but can they name the capitals of New York, California, Texas, and Florida?
Thus, to some extent, cross-atlantic ignorance cuts both ways (but probably not in equal proportions)." - Carthage and Troy

The inability to name the capital of a country is not a sign of ignorance. What is ignorant is the inability to recognise that we are all inhabitants of the same planet and that as a self proclaimed leader of that planet the U.S. has a duty to learn from the successes and failures of civilizations that are older and wiser.

That's valid. If we get news that is sensational instead of insighful it's because thats what gets ratings. That's capitalism. When we start demanding better news we'll get it.

That's crap. Plenty of children and young adults want to and do learn. I've been out of high school for a decade but i doubt that much has changed. We still have honor societies, straight A students and the more common A&B students. We also still go to college. With many of us paying our own way. If many kids can't make change without a calculator it's because schools have become lax about such skills. Most likely because students have much more to learn today than they did 50 or even 20 years ago. My generation was taking computer classes in grade school. Plus all those character building session. uhg.


I'm curious to know what these character building sessions were. Sarcastic remarks aside this is something I've never heard of before.

I think the issue is the fact that Europeans IN GENERAL genuinely do know more about the USA than Americans IN GENERAL know about Europe (or indeed anywhere "overseas"). The American medias reporting of foreign and international affairs is notoriously scant. Thus, it is only those small numbers of Americans (and I'm sure we are fortunate that many of them are those Americans that contribute here) that actively seek out news from foreign sources (e.g. BBC etc) on world affairs. On the other hand, the European population is IN GENERAL far more exposed to events in the USA, as European media features far more international news stories.

Another factor is that many many Europeans can understand English and therefore can read American news sources and interact with Americans. Comparitively few Americans can speak other European languages, therefore they do not have access to many (most) European news outlets covering European news and events.

The language barrier is not an excuse. Many international newspapers have online English translations of their daily news.

The language barrier is not an excuse. Many international newspapers have online English translations of their daily news.
Yes, and as an American, I speak a number of languages other than English.

Considering that about 1 out of 4 Americans speak Spanish, and still others speak other languages, you can't say we're only speaking English over here.

Yes, and as an American, I speak a number of languages other than English.

Considering that about 1 out of 4 Americans speak Spanish, and still others speak other languages, you can't say we're only speaking English over here.

I didn't.

And regarding the British/American debate as to which of you is more ignorant, it scares me to read some of your postings and realise just how little the people from two of the most powerful nations on the earth know about the rest of the world.

Well, ignorance is there throughout the world.
But of course, in every country that is rich and prosperous, some of the citizens get lax and are not so interested in the world around them. I don't see anything wrong about that, it happens.
There are a lot of smart people in the US, a proportional amount enough to make the US the engine of the world's economy and the leader in military, technology etc.
I have met lots of Americans on chess servers etc. Do I find them the couch potatoes some people think they are? No, some are quite intelligent. It really makes you wonder where are the couch potatoes anyways.
But, I would really like to object, or rather, protest, the so-called American culture. Some aspects, such as being independent are really good I think, since I come from the Far East. But, others such as McDonald's, pop stars, Coke etc... Did you know 1 in 3 American children are obese? It comes from malnutrition `and` over eating junk food, empty calories. Well, can you say that those children and their parents are 100% ignorant of it? They should hear a bit from the media and other sources, but they are happy to exchange a bit of their health for some unhealthy habit.
Overall, the American elite and middle class are not ignorant.And they consist of a large portion of Americans. And if they are ignorant, they don't belong there. And if they are there, the are not making a big difference, nor are they well off. And if they are well off ,America is losing it, and if America is losing it, we should see the result by the end of the next few decades, whether or not America is still a leader, or has imploded.
Then again, I do not totally agree with the American style of life. The overspending and low savings rate. Did you know that American consumers have trillions of debt, that are owned by foreign investors(mostly central banks.) What does a middle-class do when he has a huge rise in his salary? Buy a bigger house(the so-called financial advisor says the interest on the mortgage is tax deductible, but there's a point where your income is so high that you can't further deduct taxes), buy better car etc.
The bloating trade deficit, if it is to be continued, will have a drastic effect upon the Americans and the world economy. As Warren Buffett puts it, its like a farmer selling off portions of his farm to overconsume. We will await to see how the Americans will resolve the problem.
And I think much improvement could be made on the Americans. More efficiency and a smaller government are the more obvious ones. Ignorance is definitely ubiquitous worldwide, you can't make a man know everything no? Although ignorance in some matters have caused the Americans as a whole to suffer in a way.(Social security is going bankrupt, lots of Americans have no savings and are going to live on zilch in their retirement, the govt's promise will soon be seen to be a blank check, and of course, overconsuming the wrong products due to the massive advertising campaign made by the media.)

I didn't.

And regarding the British/American debate as to which of you is more ignorant, it scares me to read some of your postings and realise just how little the people from two of the most powerful nations on the earth know about the rest of the world.

What did you think was inaccurate about my knowledge of the outside world?

What did you think was inaccurate about my knowledge of the outside world?

I was speaking in general about comments made by both American and British patriots. This doesn't mean that I think all Americans and Brits are ignorant. I know many who are very insightful. But if your question is sincere just review some of your own posts and the various replies and see if your own attitude towards the rest of the world has changed by being a part of this forum.

I was speaking in general about comments made by both American and British patriots. This doesn't mean that I think all Americans and Brits are ignorant. I know many who are very insightful. But if your question is sincere just review some of your own posts and the various replies and see if your own attitude towards the rest of the world has changed by being a part of this forum.

I'm being sincere. But I haven't changed my attitudes towards the outside world because of this forum.

In fact, the only person who has changed my mind about anything is another American, Cat-Tribe.

-
I would als like to say that if it hadn't been for british over-taxation, we never would have picked up the habit of drinking coffee and it wouldnt bee so darn hard to get a decent cup of tea in this country

Actually, Britain repealed all of the taxes except the minor Stamp Tax before the Boston Tea Party, due to the anger of the people. It was because tea became cheaper so suddenly, that the Boston Tea Party was staged by tea smugglers, because they were losing their profits. Also, America was very lightly taxed - in Britain, the British had to pay for American defence (against the French, etc. ) as well as for the defense of the rest of the Empire and other wars against other countries. However, the real issue in America was that they felt they had no repersentation to London, and feeling themselves to be British, were annoying by the fact they seemed to have no equal say. Britain learned from the American War of Independance - that's were the British Commonwealth of Nations came from - giving colonies "responible government" while them still being linked to Britain.

I think that there are slightly more "ignorant" people in America (at least ignorant of the ROW). I tend to blame this on the US's poorly funded education system and the culture where quite a few "ignorant" people voice their opinions VERY LOUDLY. There are loud, ignorant Europeans, but over here there's more of a culture of "best keep quiet and not make a fool of yourself".

I think Europeans and Americans (generally) have different view points on how to deal with the world. Europe has had great success with the EU, and tend to go with the international insitution option, while the US looks to the UN's record in Rwanda, etc, and trys to go it alone if the UN doesn't back it up.

As for the arguement "why doesn't Europe make it's own army and intervein in crisises" (it was mentioned earilier), that's a difficult issue over here. Mainly the problem is that some people don't want an EU army. Another is that, let's face it, European countries can't intervene elsewhere without the US's say so - as seen in the Suez Crisis, where America stopped the British and French from otherthrowing the Eygptian leader, by refusing to 1. back the attack and 2. fund the Brits when the Bank of England, strained by WWII ran out of money to fund the blockade. Later the Americans had problems (predicted by the British and the French) of the Eygptian leadership getting too close to the Soviets. Since then European intervention only happens outside of peacekeeping at America's say-so.

Washington doesn't want to see an EU army either - it loosens their control of Europe through NATO (heavens forbid the uppity Europeans making their own choices).

I think Europe going on about American "ignorance" is because they feel America has turned its back on the international way (the US was the main founder of the League of Nations and the UN) which is generally seen as the best way over here, and through America's fumbling of Foreign policy due to the lack of knowledge on the area it's working in - for example, after/near the end of WWII, the US was looking for the prinicpal of self-determination to be put into practise in Europe - that different groups of people will rule themselves. Very noble, but Britain hasitly pointed out that this would make Germany bigger than it was before the war.

While Europeans to have a lot of different countries and cultures so close to them, travel to any other country at all is good for getting different perpectives. It's a pity America's disadvantaged in this (that it's 5 hours flight to Europe/North Africa and long way away from Japan and Austrailia).

I think both Americans and Europeans have an equal level of aggrogance (very high).

It's not so much knowledge of different countries and cultures that what is needed, but an awareness and repect for other peoples and a willingness to learn about them before intervening. While the US really needs to learn this because it affects the world in a big way, the rest of us should remember it too.

I'm being sincere. But I haven't changed my attitudes towards the outside world because of this forum.

In fact, the only person who has changed my mind about anything is another American, Cat-Tribe.\

Hey, Whispers, tell me what Cat changed your mind about.

I happen to be another American who is regularly appalled by my neighbors ignorance. But then I live in rural Oklahoma, and Jessica Simpson would be appalled. :p

\

Hey, Whispers, tell me what Cat changed your mind about.

I happen to be another American who is regularly appalled by my neighbors ignorance. But then I live in rural Oklahoma, and Jessica Simpson would be appalled. :p

He corrected me on the 2nd Amendment. I still think it's a natural right (the individual right to the means for self-defense). Just not a clear individual Constitutional right as far as the Supreme Court is concerned.

I haven't heard a single thing about the UK elections except for on this forum. And I live in the wonderful cultural mecca of oklahoma city. If we don't know about it then it ain't important (y'all).

Oh yes, and this is a bad thing. Most folks in this part of the country are utterly unaware of the rest of the world and don't really care. In a global society you have to know something about the other countries, cultures, and people you will come into contact with.

I would hasten to add that Cat, to a fault, argues using facts.

It's a refreshing change from "you suck" and "guns are evil, man" and "you fucking American", or "I hope all Americans die".

I'm sure other people might have a chance at changing my mind, but they aren't trying very hard.

I think that there are very few who would disagree with me that there exists in America, a serious ignorence of the rest of the world. . This was for me highlighted by the fact that there is in the American Media very little mention of the UK general election, which is something quite monumental in world politics in general. Britain being the worlds 4th most powerful country I think the American media needs to cover it more. I have heard a great deal of reports of American 12-13 year olds being unable to sucessfully point to Canada or Mexico on a map. I have three questions here then. Is there a general ignorence in America of the rest of the world, why is there that igonrence and is that ignorence somehow dangerous to them in the long term. I belive the first and last of these questions to be yes. Of the second one, I am unsure.

Speaking as an American, hell yes there is a danger. Ignorance of any type is bad, but ignorance of your surroundings is a biggie, second only to an ignorance of history, which is exactly what we're experiencing in greater numbers in this country.

There are people that live here that don't even know how many states there are in the union, so don't think you're all special because Americans don't know much about you, because they know less and less about themselves with each passing generation.

Why is there this ignorance? Blame it on a school system that seems to be less interested in educating students and more in preparing them to be "productive members of society." Viable job skills and the ability to be economic assets is now more important than making sure that they know who they are, where they came from, and what's going on in the rest of the world outside of the market. Welcome to capitalism run amuck.

Why is there this ignorance? Blame it on a school system that seems to be less interested in educating students and more in preparing them to be "productive members of society."
Schools can only do so much. Blame it on the parents who do nothing to instill an interest in learning on their children. Parents need to start taking an active role in their childrens education.

Sorry for answerign so late: Well I didn't say that you get to be a superpower by being blind. The reason a countries gets to be a superpower is very many diffrents ones, that can be debated in another thread. But a good booktips is "the origin of the modern world" by Robert B. Marks.

But if you get so powerfull as the USA and have a so big population almost 300 millions, the interest for other countries can diminish. Ecpecially if you have a capitalist media that see the lacking interest in foreign affairs and therefore don't air so much foreign news, that leads to even less interest, creating a vicious circle. And that this can be a big problem because for example USA as a superpower have a very big affect on the world and therefor the american people should be informed and see foreign affairs as a important issue. I don't like personalatack but I would say that you show some paranoi or atleast mistrust about the rest of the world, so maybee you should learn more about the world, and see that most of us are nice.


Many europeans in this forum continually challenge American's knowledge of the rest of the world and there appears to be a common misconception that we are all ignorant.
I say that those people are the ignorant ones, assuming so smugly that they have an idea of what Americans know or dont know. I know that these opinions are based on unfounded jealousy.
I have a passport. So does everyone else in my family. We are well travelled in both the US and abroad. Is the US larger than europe? Yes-and I've been all over both. I've been on and off the beaten path-I dont just stick to the tourist areas-I've spent time amongst the "locals". I know a great deal about the US and its history. I know a great deal about Europe and it's history as well. Its possible I more aware than you on both subjects.
From listening to you and many others in here, its clear that you know far less than you would have us believe about the US and even of europe.

Stop thinking that you know what our population knows or doesnt know. Stop believing the bias against the US.
We have a pretty good standard of living because we made a pretty good standard of living. We didnt take it from you.
Learn about yourself and worry about fixing your own problems and lose the haughty, arrogant attitude that you have us all figured out.

Schools can only do so much. Blame it on the parents who do nothing to instill an interest in learning on their children. Parents need to start taking an active role in their childrens education.

I agree that's a big part of the problem, however the cirriculum is shifting away from history and geography and focusing more on job-related areas and teaching. I realized this when I was having a discussion with my girlfriend's daughter, a high school senior at the time, and mentioned the American Revolution, to which she replied, "The what?"

"Didn't you take an American Studies class?"

"Yes."

"They didn't say anything about the American Revolution? Boston Tea Party? Paul Revere? Anything?"

"Nope."

She got out of that class with a B. I had to sit down and give her a two hour overview of the events leading up to the Revolutionary War and highlights of the war itself so I could rest in good conscience...

She did learn, however, how to put take apart and put together computers.

Many europeans in this forum continually challenge American's knowledge of the rest of the world and there appears to be a common misconception that we are all ignorant.
I say that those people are the ignorant ones, assuming so smugly that they have an idea of what Americans know or dont know. I know that these opinions are based on unfounded jealousy.
I have a passport. So does everyone else in my family. We are well travelled in both the US and abroad. Is the US larger than europe? Yes-and I've been all over both. I've been on and off the beaten path-I dont just stick to the tourist areas-I've spent time amongst the "locals". I know a great deal about the US and its history. I know a great deal about Europe and it's history as well. Its possible I more aware than you on both subjects.
From listening to you and many others in here, its clear that you know far less than you would have us believe about the US and even of europe.

Stop thinking that you know what our population knows or doesnt know. Stop believing the bias against the US.
We have a pretty good standard of living because we made a pretty good standard of living. We didnt take it from you.
Learn about yourself and worry about fixing your own problems and lose the haughty, arrogant attitude that you have us all figured out.

I think that's a very unfair and unjust charge - as bad as those Europeans who live up to the stereotype you deplore. If you note my earlier contribution, I deliberately overtly stressed that I wasn't declaring all Americans are ignorant of the rest of the world etc. However, you cannot deny that the rest of the world's events/news receives far less coverage in USA than American news receives in the rest of the world's (especially European) media - especially if you've travelled in Europe, thus you hopefully caught our media occasionally whilst travelling here.

you had to go and say something: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/18392729?source=Evening%20Standard&ct=5

lol, sure you wouldn't rather have the US ignore you?




note: I just couldn't resist. this post is not supposed to be taken seriously, but the humour in someone commenting about the US ignoring the UK elections and then the UK consulate being bombed in the US is to great to resist.

Heh, I read "ROW" as "Risk Of War" before I looked inside this thread.

Schools can only do so much. Blame it on the parents who do nothing to instill an interest in learning on their children. Parents need to start taking an active role in their childrens education.
Its a bit of both, the schools really are that bad, my hischool frequently closed the labrary and kicked me out so the football team could watch game videos and that school gave me the unique honor of being in the tallented and gifted program(I scored 99-97 percentile on every test they ever gave me) and special ed(I had "ADD"). However it was my father that instilled me with a proper respect for the intrinsic value of knowledgethat has allowed me to apply my literacy to things beyond the latest Stephen King novel.

I'm curious to know what these character building sessions were. Sarcastic remarks aside this is something I've never heard of before.

They take time out of the student regular classes to teach them how to have self respect and how no to hit people who've made you angry, things that aren't so bad but should be learned at home. Another problem with these teachings in my opinion is that they fail students. It seems to teach them that are all great and worthy without trying anything. "You don't have to succeed because you are a wonderful person just as you are." That wouldn't be so bad if you added to it.... "But do your homework, learn to spell and when you fail at something important keep trying until you get it right."

Its a bit of both, the schools really are that bad, my hischool frequently closed the labrary and kicked me out so the football team could watch game videos and that school gave me the unique honor of being in the tallented and gifted program(I scored 99-97 percentile on every test they ever gave me) and special ed(I had "ADD"). However it was my father that instilled me with a proper respect for the intrinsic value of knowledgethat has allowed me to apply my literacy to things beyond the latest Stephen King novel.

:) Hey now Steven King's novels contain some wonderful examples of mythology, struggle for morality and the importance of self reflection.

1. Bush is responsible for America's ignorancy.
2. Why do American's need to know about the United Kingdom(England) I mean sure there a nice bunch does it really concern something thats happening on another continet.
3. HOLY CRAP THERE ARE KIDS WHO DON'T KNOW WHERE CANADA OR MEXICO ARE! My God does the United States need better teachers or a better educational system(hey don't care if we don't use your metric system Europe okay? not that I hate European's but who cares if we don't use there metric system.)

well... I'm glad I live in Canada

I would hasten to add that Cat, to a fault, argues using facts.

It's a refreshing change from "you suck" and "guns are evil, man" and "you fucking American", or "I hope all Americans die".

I'm sure other people might have a chance at changing my mind, but they aren't trying very hard.

I'm disappointed to see that my efforts are not being recognised. But this statement leads me to believe that you think that either Americans in general are well informed as to what is going on in the rest of the world, or that they don't need to know what is going on because their politicians will take care of international problems for them.

2. Why do American's need to know about the United Kingdom(England) I mean sure there a nice bunch does it really concern something thats happening on another continet.

Firstly, the United Kingdom is not just England. It is Scotland, Wales, Northen Ireland and England

Secondly, they don't 'Need' to be aware of it but for their own benefit it would be educating for them. I still get cross at the number of Americans who think that Liberalism is left wing and that Socialism is evil. Americans should rearly examine the British election and indeed democracy working in many other countries to make them more aware of the world around them and to show them that their version of democracy is not the best, and that there are others which work just as well, if not better.

"Many europeans in this forum continually challenge American's knowledge of the rest of the world and there appears to be a common misconception that we are all ignorant." - Carnivorous Lickers

You've neglected to include the many non-Europeans who are a part of this forum.


"I say that those people are the ignorant ones, assuming so smugly that they have an idea of what Americans know or dont know. I know that these opinions are based on unfounded jealousy." - Carnivorous Lickers

It would be ignorant to make such an assumption. I'm sure that there are many people in this forum, who live in other parts of the world, and have it better than you.


"I have a passport. So does everyone else in my family. We are well travelled in both the US and abroad. Is the US larger than europe? Yes-and I've been all over both." - Carnivorous Lickers

When you talk about Europe are you including Russia?

"I've been on and off the beaten path-I dont just stick to the tourist areas-I've spent time amongst the "locals". I know a great deal about the US and its history. I know a great deal about Europe and it's history as well. Its possible I more aware than you on both subjects." - Carnivorous Lickers

Probably, but the title of this thread is "America's ignorance of the ROW a serious risk to itself?" The ROW is a lot bigger than just the U.S. and Europe.

You and some of the other responders to this thread seem to be taking this debate very personally. Try to keep in mind that this debate has nothing to do with the British elections or whether Europeans have a better education system. This thread is to determine whether or not ignorance of what is happening in the rest of the world is a threat to the U.S.

I agree that's a big part of the problem, however the cirriculum is shifting away from history and geography and focusing more on job-related areas and teaching. I realized this when I was having a discussion with my girlfriend's daughter, a high school senior at the time, and mentioned the American Revolution, to which she replied, "The what?"

"Didn't you take an American Studies class?"

"Yes."

"They didn't say anything about the American Revolution? Boston Tea Party? Paul Revere? Anything?"

"Nope."

She got out of that class with a B. I had to sit down and give her a two hour overview of the events leading up to the Revolutionary War and highlights of the war itself so I could rest in good conscience...

She did learn, however, how to put take apart and put together computers.


It seems to me the school system is replacing abstract thinkers and philosophers who might challenge the authority of the ruling class with technicians who will serve them.

They take time out of the student regular classes to teach them how to have self respect and how no to hit people who've made you angry, things that aren't so bad but should be learned at home. Another problem with these teachings in my opinion is that they fail students. It seems to teach them that are all great and worthy without trying anything. "You don't have to succeed because you are a wonderful person just as you are." That wouldn't be so bad if you added to it.... "But do your homework, learn to spell and when you fail at something important keep trying until you get it right."

Is this reserved for students with behavioural problems or are all students subjected to this?

:) Hey now Steven King's novels contain some wonderful examples of mythology, struggle for morality and the importance of self reflection.

... and little girls that can set people on fire!

... and little girls that can set people on fire!

Now what do you think that was a metaphor though?

Now what do you think that was a metaphor though?

If your intended question was... "Now what do you think that was a metaphor for?"

To be honest I have no idea, but I was just watching Firestarter the other night and I'm thankful as hell that some of the women I've dated don't have that kind of power.

If your intended question was... "Now what do you think that was a metaphor for?"

To be honest i have no idea, but I was just watching Firestarter the other night and I'm thankful as hell that the women I've dated don't have that kind of power.

Yah, sorry about that, I tend to multi-task and, hence, sometimes I miss bits out.

What you assumed was correct. Nevertheless, a prepubescent girl who only sets 'certain' people on fire. Pretty deep stuff if you ask me. I wouldn't write Steven King off as rubbish per se. Maybe you should read the books.

Yah, sorry about that, I tend to multi-task and, hence, sometimes I miss bits out.

What you assumed was correct. Nevertheless, a prepubescent girl who only sets 'certain' people on fire. Pretty deep stuff if you ask me. I wouldn't write Steven King off as rubbish per se. Maybe you should read the books.

I wouldn't write Stephen King off either. But I'd rather psychoanalyse real people then fictional.

I wouldn't write Stephen King off either. But I'd rather psychoanalyse real people then fictional.

Aye, but it is not about the individual, it is about society. So it isn't examing the abstract charater, but rather his perception of our common community at the time he wrote it. So, in respect of Steven King, his work is at least as relevant as shakespere, if not moreso. Thus it is a legitimate area of study.

Metapoetic, if you will.

Isolationist, aye? So, then I guess in turn the world should ignore us, I mean to be fair.

It is hard to ignore the country that is trying to rule the world and fuck it at the same time.
For example, america says "No Isreal you can not attack those who have been attacking you for years with sucicide bombs and the like, but it is ok for us to destroy a country that might have had a person who attacked us once"

It's kind of sad that America is supposedly so "ignorence" compared to the rest of the world...and yet, it is still an extremely powerful nation if not the most powerful. What does that say about the other countries?