NationStates Jolt Archive

Within your opinion what characteristics define manhood? This question is intended to go beyond the physical and into the mental. What attitude should a man take on, how should he behave?
Is manhood even possible to define, or is it to large of an idea to make any possible assertions? Or is manhood nothing but an illusion, no more than a product of culture, or is it an instinctual, innate idea.

Now I recognise that it may be impossible actually come up with any rational, universal idea of manhood. If you feel you can make a rational generalization concerning manhood, go ahead and try. But to those who only have opinion, and belief, possibly we can discuss why you have you opinion, why you view some behaviours as favourable and others as unfavourable.

In my opinion stoic philosophy bares many of well entrenched ideas of the proper western man, following reason as a guide to behaviour, not letting your mind be overcome by strong emotional passion, and generally being a reasonable and helpful person. Note that I’ve only had an quick introduction to classical stoic philosophy so if I have fallen to error in my assessment I apologise. To that my gut reaction aggress with the stoics, when I see a man emotional freak out when he loses I feel that that’s undignified behaviour. I’d go on but I’ll just open it up to you now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoic

*tries*

...

*explodes*

...

Yeah it's hard to actually get an actual definition for something that almost every culture in the world has different opinions on.

The only differences between men and women should be the physical ones.

I guess the only definition I can give right off the bat is that the most manly thing is to complement woman, just like the most womanly thing is to complement man. And of course, that's recursive, but oh well.

I think that manhood can only be compared relative to womanhood, and I would have to say that manhood is more about action, while womanhood is more about contemplation. Of course, this is all sweeping generalization and gross inaccuracy... Bah.

I'll come up with an answer for this.

Mmm, differences between people shouldn't be dependent on gender. i.e. people shouldn't be limited to the behvioural identity given to them by their gender role.

The only differences between men and women should be the physical ones.
Yup. Although those lines are sometimes blurry! :p But I know what you mean, and I agree.

Manhood is a socially defined group in which the males are rated on 3 separate and distinct characteristics:

1) Material possesions
2) Physical strength
3) Emotional detatchment

This is a product of the idea of the Marketplace Man in today's society in which "the man with the most stuff at the end wins" It is a sad sad fact, and those that posses anything less than teh most of each of the 3 characteristics are deemed feminine. Even homosexual. Which goes into the debate of whether or not masculinity is a front for homophobia, which is true in my mind, but others seem to think differently than me.

My view:

When a boy decides conciously or un-conciously that he is mature enough to be responsible for his actions, takes on responsibility, is willing to develop a work ethic, treats others as he would like to be treated, the list could go on...

Manhood is a sense a...time when a boy becomes respected by those who already have achieved that level in their lives...

Unfortunately, there has been a loss of the "community" and a lot of males have fathered children but few have "raised" them and achieving manhood is quickly becoming a blurred line. There are a lot of males out there who have no sense of what it means to become a man.

The only differences between men and women should be the physical ones.

Seconded.

I am the definition of manhood*!

*disclaimer: this may be completely untrue

The only differences between men and women should be the physical ones.

*agrees*

I think manhood is defined when one becomes a fully integrated member of your particular society, with all rights, privileges, and responsibilities that entails. In other words, when what he contributes to society (monetary, defense, work, home, family) equals or exceeds what is given to him by society. Children after all are to be taken care of and are not expected to give an equal or greater return for that care. Adulthood then would seem to be achieving those returns.

Of course if you listen to Patrick F. McMannus, the true test of a man is sleeping alone in his backyard for the first time. That works too. ;)

Well, if you take what most people seem to think...
Its being a muscle bound idiot who reads at a third grade level, or preferably not at all.
Sleeping with as many women as possible.
Not having ANY ideas of your own.
Absolute conformity.

Thats the basic outline that Ive gotten from society :P

you only acheive manhood when you leave the village to raid your traditional enemies and return with a trophy to prove you have killed one. most real men in america are in prison... or the marines... or marine prison.

The only differences between men and women should be the physical ones.

Works for me.

I think you're an adult once you can survive on your own.

The only differences between men and women should be the physical ones.


here here


the only difference is a dick vs vagina and boobs (well non manboobs that is)

Within your opinion what characteristics define manhood? This question is intended to go beyond the physical and into the mental. What attitude should a man take on, how should he behave?
Is manhood even possible to define, or is it to large of an idea to make any possible assertions? Or is manhood nothing but an illusion, no more than a product of culture, or is it an instinctual, innate idea.

Now I recognise that it may be impossible actually come up with any rational, universal idea of manhood. If you feel you can make a rational generalization concerning manhood, go ahead and try. But to those who only have opinion, and belief, possibly we can discuss why you have you opinion, why you view some behaviours as favourable and others as unfavourable.

In my opinion stoic philosophy bares many of well entrenched ideas of the proper western man, following reason as a guide to behaviour, not letting your mind be overcome by strong emotional passion, and generally being a reasonable and helpful person. Note that I’ve only had an quick introduction to classical stoic philosophy so if I have fallen to error in my assessment I apologise. To that my gut reaction aggress with the stoics, when I see a man emotional freak out when he loses I feel that that’s undignified behaviour. I’d go on but I’ll just open it up to you now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoic

I'm not sure off the top of my head if Stoicism would be the best philosophy of the "real man". . .Stoics believed in maintaining dispassion because after all, the world was predetermined and they had no control over anything, a most unmanly way to view the world.

A better philosopher IMO would have been Aristotle. If you read his list of virtues, and his analysis of using reason as a way to determine what was virtuous and what was vicious, I think he makes an excellent case for what a man should be and why he should be it: just, compassionate, rational, moderate, etc, because that is what makes a man truly happy.

I can only give my personal definition of manhood, something I recently talked to my seventeen year old son about. A man is tough, not macho tough, but can-do tough. The men we remember are those who step up and do the hard or distastefull things without comment because they need to get done. They're not afraid to get dirty. They sacrifice of themselves for the good of the many without desire for compensation. They are tender and compasionate or hard and protective in the appropraite times. They are the defenders of those who cannot defend themselves. They recognize and encourage art and science. They are open and honest in all thay do.

When I think of manhood, I don't think of muscled, macho action heros. I think of the pictures I've seen of drawn, lean, leathery settlers in primitive conditions raising families in sod houses.

Those were men.

I can only give my personal definition of manhood, something I recently talked to my seventeen year old son about. A man is tough, not macho tough, but can-do tough. The men we remember are those who step up and do the hard or distastefull things without comment because they need to get done. They're not afraid to get dirty. They sacrifice of themselves for the good of the many without desire for compensation. They are tender and compasionate or hard and protective in the appropraite times. They are the defenders of those who cannot defend themselves. They recognize and encourage art and science. They are open and honest in all thay do.

Those were men.

see, but despite the laste sentence 'those were men', i can describe the equivalent of that man in a women.


Can-do tough attitude - check
no afraid to get themselves dirty - check
will do for others not themselves - check
well-rounded - check
etc.


So I think that in todays society, thats the ideal personhood

see, but despite the laste sentence 'those were men', i can describe the equivalent of that man in a women.


Can-do tough attitude - check
no afraid to get themselves dirty - check
will do for others not themselves - check
well-rounded - check
etc.


So I think that in todays society, thats the ideal personhoodAh but you left out a paragraph of my post. When I think of manhood, I don't think of muscled, macho action heros. I think of the pictures I've seen of drawn, lean, leathery settlers in primitive conditions raising families in sod houses.That is what the comment "those were men" refers to.

Other than that, I don't disagree that the same criteria can be applied to womanhood.

Within your opinion what characteristics define manhood? This question is intended to go beyond the physical and into the mental. What attitude should a man take on, how should he behave?
Is manhood even possible to define, or is it to large of an idea to make any possible assertions? Or is manhood nothing but an illusion, no more than a product of culture, or is it an instinctual, innate idea.


Manhood as a product of culture? My answer to that depends on how much Jung or Campbell I've read before, mostly. I mean, my personal beliefs aside, there is a case for archetypes in gender roles common between cultures and even a collective unconsious which defines gender roles. Yeah, I think culture has something to do with how manhood is expressed, but I think it's entirely possible (and a fascinating thought) that there are universal tendencies of manhood--underlying its expression--across cultures.

Read Macbeth :D

see, but despite the laste sentence 'those were men', i can describe the equivalent of that man in a women.


Can-do tough attitude - check
no afraid to get themselves dirty - check
will do for others not themselves - check
well-rounded - check
etc.


So I think that in todays society, thats the ideal personhood

This isn't a "men's only" club we're talking about here. Aristotle was quite clear about making no real distinctions between what was good for men and good for women. Neither did Plato.

In other words, we're not trying to define manhood in a way that puts women back in the kitchen; we're just trying to define what the best man would be like. So there's no need for the feminist critique.

As a side note, if you're looking for the ideal characterization of what a "real man" is, the two literary characters that spring out in my mind are Atticus Finch from To Kill a Mockingbird and Aragorn from LotR.

Aragorn from LotR.
I would add Frodo to the list, unless you'd rather he be an example of a real Hobbit. :D

To me, the ultimate man would be a warrior-poet. A man able to both think and do. A worker, a fighter, a feeler, a lover and a thinker. The character Cyrano from Cyrano de Bergerac springs to mind as an example. The ultimate man would devote his time to keeping his body and mind in perfect condition. He would be an idealist, and would fight for his ideals. He would be ambitious, though not greedy. He would never be gluttenous or lazy.
Suffice it to say that I am *far* from the ultimate of malehood.

As for the perfect woman... That will take some serious thought.

I can only give my personal definition of manhood, something I recently talked to my seventeen year old son about. A man is tough, not macho tough, but can-do tough. The men we remember are those who step up and do the hard or distastefull things without comment because they need to get done. They're not afraid to get dirty. They sacrifice of themselves for the good of the many without desire for compensation. They are tender and compasionate or hard and protective in the appropraite times. They are the defenders of those who cannot defend themselves. They recognize and encourage art and science. They are open and honest in all thay do.

You took the words right out of my mouth! :)

While the above paragraph is completely true, I would say the only truly measurable test of manhood is when a man takes full responsbility for his own actions, regardless of the consequences to himself.

Originally posted by Xenophobialand

...we're not trying to define manhood in a way that puts women back in the kitchen; we're just trying to define what the best man would be like. So there's no need for the feminist critique.

Thanks for beating me to the punch! :)

A Strong Moral Character.

To me three things summarises a true man
The ability to do what is right and/or what is necessary.
The ability to admit to mistakes/actions and take the consequences
The ability to take any hard knocks that life gives and get on with it.

People say "I don't want to do that so I won't"
Men say "I don't want to do that but it is necessary/right so I will"

That not to say those who can not are not men, but this is what every man should be able to do.

Manhood is when a man fully understands that even the adult world is populated by petty and childish people. When you realise this and accept it/get on with life, you have reached manhood.

Manhood is also a word used by people who can't say 'penis' because they're convinced it's soooooo naughty

When you get hair on your weewee, then you're a man

Manhood for me?

Responsible, open minded. Confident but not arrogant.
Compassionate. Accountable.
Supportive without saying "I told you so".
A little humble. Modest but not shy.
Not leaving a dirty diaper on his child because thats the "mother's job".
Able to earn a living and support his dependants, but vacuuming because it needs to be done, cooking and cleaning because he can and actually wants to.
Helping to build the winning "pinewood derby" car.
Learning to spackle-the hard way.
Making sure the little things are always done-cel phones always charged, cars are always full of gas and in good service.

Being prepared and being able to correct otherwise troublesome situations-not only for yourself, but family and friends.

***Being the person those in your life call for help.*

There's more in my opinion, but I dont want to wear anyone out.

I can only give my personal definition of manhood, something I recently talked to my seventeen year old son about. A man is tough, not macho tough, but can-do tough. The men we remember are those who step up and do the hard or distastefull things without comment because they need to get done. They're not afraid to get dirty. They sacrifice of themselves for the good of the many without desire for compensation. They are tender and compasionate or hard and protective in the appropraite times. They are the defenders of those who cannot defend themselves. They recognize and encourage art and science. They are open and honest in all thay do.

When I think of manhood, I don't think of muscled, macho action heros. I think of the pictures I've seen of drawn, lean, leathery settlers in primitive conditions raising families in sod houses.

Those were men.

Women can do that too, and historically, there are many examples who did.

When you get hair on your weewee, then you're a man


That was around 13 for me. I didnt feel like a man yet, but started smelling like one.

Suddenly I want a Manwich.

Anyway, manhood .... that's easy enough:

The minute a boy figures out that he cannot live in accordance with how he wants things to be, but rather must live in accordance with the way things are; he becomes a man.

That was around 13 for me. I didnt feel like a man yet, but started smelling like one.
Yes, manhood smells bad...... But at least it's not womanhood

Within your opinion what characteristics define manhood? This question is intended to go beyond the physical and into the mental. What attitude should a man take on, how should he behave?
Is manhood even possible to define, or is it to large of an idea to make any possible assertions? Or is manhood nothing but an illusion, no more than a product of culture, or is it an instinctual, innate idea.

Now I recognise that it may be impossible actually come up with any rational, universal idea of manhood. If you feel you can make a rational generalization concerning manhood, go ahead and try. But to those who only have opinion, and belief, possibly we can discuss why you have you opinion, why you view some behaviours as favourable and others as unfavourable.

In my opinion stoic philosophy bares many of well entrenched ideas of the proper western man, following reason as a guide to behaviour, not letting your mind be overcome by strong emotional passion, and generally being a reasonable and helpful person. Note that I’ve only had an quick introduction to classical stoic philosophy so if I have fallen to error in my assessment I apologise. To that my gut reaction aggress with the stoics, when I see a man emotional freak out when he loses I feel that that’s undignified behaviour. I’d go on but I’ll just open it up to you now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoic

Guys should know when they enter manhood by just feeling mature and ready to start seeing a girl in his mind, while mentally and physiclly controling his urges for sex with her.

Yes, manhood smells bad...... But at least it's not womanhood

Hey! Least we don't smell, we just find out about twelve or thrteen that we can have kids. You forget us girls are the only reason guys can be fathers :fluffle:

hunting/gathering and protecting the clan

hehe

Within your opinion what characteristics define manhood? This question is intended to go beyond the physical and into the mental. What attitude should a man take on, how should he behave?
Is manhood even possible to define, or is it to large of an idea to make any possible assertions? Or is manhood nothing but an illusion, no more than a product of culture, or is it an instinctual, innate idea.

Now I recognise that it may be impossible actually come up with any rational, universal idea of manhood. If you feel you can make a rational generalization concerning manhood, go ahead and try. But to those who only have opinion, and belief, possibly we can discuss why you have you opinion, why you view some behaviours as favourable and others as unfavourable.
Even after all this time, I'm not really sure what is meant by "manhood." I suspect the term is too subjective to define with any degree of certainty. My own preference is for "maturity" as a concept, which means to me that a person has reached the point where they are aware of their place in the universe and have come to terms with it.

Hey! Least we don't smell, we just find out about twelve or thrteen that we can have kids. You forget us girls are the only reason guys can be fathers :fluffle:
Pffft. What do you think we have Arnold Schwarzenegger for? Surely not politics or something....... oh wait

you only acheive manhood when you leave the village to raid your traditional enemies and return with a trophy to prove you have killed one. most real men in america are in prison... or the marines... or marine prison.or in TJ

or in TJ
Or the white house

how many women they've been with. thats all they need to know

how many women they've been with. thats all they need to know

:rolleyes: Yeah...so...basically, how many diseases you have?

Within your opinion what characteristics define manhood? This question is intended to go beyond the physical and into the mental. What attitude should a man take on, how should he behave?
Is manhood even possible to define, or is it to large of an idea to make any possible assertions? Or is manhood nothing but an illusion, no more than a product of culture, or is it an instinctual, innate idea.

Now I recognise that it may be impossible actually come up with any rational, universal idea of manhood. If you feel you can make a rational generalization concerning manhood, go ahead and try. But to those who only have opinion, and belief, possibly we can discuss why you have you opinion, why you view some behaviours as favourable and others as unfavourable.

In my opinion stoic philosophy bares many of well entrenched ideas of the proper western man, following reason as a guide to behaviour, not letting your mind be overcome by strong emotional passion, and generally being a reasonable and helpful person. Note that I’ve only had an quick introduction to classical stoic philosophy so if I have fallen to error in my assessment I apologise. To that my gut reaction aggress with the stoics, when I see a man emotional freak out when he loses I feel that that’s undignified behaviour. I’d go on but I’ll just open it up to you now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoic

I don't know that I see stoicism as the answer. It is an important characterist of manhood to be in control of ones emotion, but it is just as important to be aware of ones emotions and what they tell us about the world around us. A man possessed of genuine "manhood" will be as capable of compassionate, benevolent goodness as reasoned action. He will act on the basis of principle and right, but will also have the understanding to do so in a compassionate and in so far as possible, inoffensive manner.

Or the white house

ohhh...that s brillant.

Ya the thread is alive!!!!

Edit: But someone must say something inflammatory to keep it alive!

My view:

When a boy decides conciously or un-conciously that he is mature enough to be responsible for his actions, takes on responsibility, is willing to develop a work ethic, treats others as he would like to be treated, the list could go on...

Manhood is a sense a...time when a boy becomes respected by those who already have achieved that level in their lives...

Unfortunately, there has been a loss of the "community" and a lot of males have fathered children but few have "raised" them and achieving manhood is quickly becoming a blurred line. There are a lot of males out there who have no sense of what it means to become a man.

Great answer and I agree.

Start with the 10 basic tennants of chivalry. Those without a religion can ignore numbers 1,2 and the latter half of 7.
1. Thou shalt believe all that the church teaches and shall obey all her commandments.
2. Thou shalt defend the church.
3. Thou shalt respect all weaknesses and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
4. Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
5. Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
6. Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy.
7. Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
8. Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word.
9. Thou shalt be generous, and give largesse to everyone.
10. Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against injustice and evil.

Notice this above tenants say nothing about treating women like dirt. So to the above I would add "Be courteous and considerate towards women."

Now onto emotional detachment. Men live in two worlds, the business world and the family world. When in the business world, men have to have a certain amount of emotional detachment or coldness. This allows them to make better buisness decisions without undue influence.

When dealing with family however, this coldness can destroy a family. Men should show love and affection towards their family. The absence of a father can have profound impacts on children, especially daughters.

In summary, men should have integrity, show love towards their families, but still be able to compete in the buisness world.

Men live in two worlds, the business world and the family world.

Pfft ... so you're saying artists and poets can't be men? Business world, my ass.

Pfft ... so you're saying artists and poets can't be men? Business world, my ass.
No, that's not what I'm saying. If the man doesn't live in the corporate world, then that's entirely fine. But for men who are in the corporate world, they use their emotional detachment as a buisness advantage. Artists and poets can be as much of a man as the CEO of of Fortune500 company.