NationStates Jolt Archive

In a conversation I had with other Canadians who have lived abroad, an interesting point was raised. The perception of Canada in the various countries my friends and I haved lived is still of this great "true north strong and free". Going by the news reports and media coverage concerning Canada, almost nothing was ever said about a large number of incidents and continuing difficulties that are quite opposite to the image people have of Canada.

Everywhere I've travelled to, I've encountered at least a few people who wax poetic about our much vaunted medicare system. They are mostly under the impression that its working just fine. Americans in particular have strong, varied and often well thought out opinions on this subject. But none of them knew that the true state of Canadian Medicare system is a complete shambles. 5 and 6 hour waits in the Emergency Rooms of Canadian hospitals is common. Eight month long waiting lists just to get an MRI, the over work and under pay of healthcare workers leading to all kinds of strikes, years of mismanagement and greed. Its all there, and it means Canadians may soon have to swallow the bitter pill of a two-tier medicare system.

Other issues such as the terrible pollution in southern Ontario, almost all of it generated right here in Ontario, the apalling treatment of the First Nations peoples, the long bloody biker wars we've seen, the ever growing number of Crystal Meth addicts all across the country, especially in rural areas, our crumbling military, the AdScam Scandal we're dealing right now, none of it gets mentioned the forgeign countries my friends and I have lived (except in the US, where I can get hold of info otherwise effectively censored by a court-imposed publication ban, but its all from political blogs, not the mainstream media)

I could understand these things being left unsaid if the people in the countries I've lived didn't give a crap about Canada and what happens here. I've met so many Germans who were OBSESSED with Canada. In the Netherlands, Canada's status as Liberators (ww2) means enormous good will and lots of interest in Canada. From my friends comments, in Japan, India, China, Russia, England and America there is definitely enough general interest in Canada that *some* of our scandals and dirty laundry would be worthy of a few minutes of discussion plus a couple soundbites.

I know that Canada has a pronounced inferiority complex. Canadians get all stoked when the forgeign news mentions Canada and all kinds of other silly things. This isn't about that. Its about a seemingly whitewashed reputation that we have abroad. Yeah, we're nice n' polite on vacation and good to get drunk with, but we know how to screw up just as well as any nation.

What the heck is going on here? Is that what CSIS (our intelligence service) spends all its time doing? Censoring any reputation sullying news through any means neccessary? (probably invovles donuts & hockey) Its like our news stops abruptly at our borders, while we read long well researched articles and watch documentaries about foreign political corruption, scandals etc. Nations generally gloat and chuckle when they hear of another nation's follies. So is our dirty laundry being hidden from other countries through some sort of Gov't media protocol? Is it just weird coincidence? Is that we're seen as so bland and harmless we couldn't possibly be as corrupt and scandal laden as the US,Asia and Europe?

Too long. Sum it up in under three sentences

Is that we're seen as so bland and harmless we couldn't possibly be as corrupt and scandal laden as the US,Asia and Europe?

That's it.

yea and u know how everyone thinks the canadian military sucks ass well actually it doesnt the government just doesnt talk about it at all we actually have a good army

You should stop reading the National Post buddy.

It's true that our healthcare system is having problems, but all that talk about long waiting times is bullshit. Due to no small amount of stupidity on my and my friends parts, I've had no small experience with emergency wards and I've never had to wait anywhere near to the 6+ hours that gets quoted all the time.

The dirty laundry that you mention is definitely covered up. Though I feel it's more of a function of our oppression of native peoples and our facillitation of US imperialism. Hell, we collaborated in the coup d'etat of Haiti, sent in troops to relieve the US in Afghanistan so they could be deployed in Iraq. And finally (this happened during Viet Nam too) we refused to send troops to Iraq, while approving billions of dollars of arms sales to the US. i.e. the Canadian gov't approved the sale of 200-300 MILLION bullets be SNC-Lavalin to the US military.

The fact that Canada doesn't really have a military to speak of isn't a very well kept secret. :D

That said, we Americans also have more than our fair share of dirty laundry concerning healthcare--the forty-five million Americans without health insurance. That's more than the entire population of Canada. I'd rather wait six hours for ER treatment and eight months for an MRI (and I personally believe that that is a great exaggeration; none of the Canadians I know have ever complained, even when asked directly) than to be denied treatment for lack of funds or be forced into bankruptcy for said treatment.

Oh, yeah, I forgot, the Republicans passed that bankruptcy bill a couple of weeks ago that bundled medical debt with unsecured consumer debt in making it harder to discharge during bankruptcy. :rolleyes:

*resumes duties as an American corporate serf*

I had to watch C-SPAN (an American cable service providing coverage of political events of interest) coverage of the Canadian House of Commons to realise that there was a scandal going on within the government. Had I not stumbled upon Martin's furious self-defence on the floor, I wouldn't have known anything about any sort of crisis. And even after that, I had to go out of my way to find a webcast of CBC's The National to find any other details about it.

I know those of you in Canada get at least some form of U.S. news programming, so I know you know we hear almost nothing of your national politics. It seems fairly odd, considering you're our closest neighbour, we speak the same language, and we share a big wide open border.

The only inclination I got of any Canadian dirty laundry was a special the NBC show "Dateline" did about the attempts to assimilate the indigenous people, but it was focusing on events that occured many decades ago.

all health care systems are screwed, because we spend too much on military, 300 million a year wolud provide a new hospital for fucks sake, but no, they by new LAVS, and they build a $2b highway in auckland at the expense ef the rest of the country which will increase inner city trafficr problems

We dont need new hospitals, we need staff to monitor them, who arent overworked and overpaid. New hospitals...how about reopening all the closed ones...maybe that will help?

Futhure more the coin spent on the military is nothing when compared to the mismanagment of funds from the liberals and that fancy dancy governer general we have. Adscam, imagen how much of that money could've helped the hospitals.

But none of them knew that the true state of Canadian Medicare system is a complete shambles. 5 and 6 hour waits in the Emergency Rooms of Canadian hospitals is common.

last time i was in the ER (maybe 6 months ago) it took somewhere between an hour and an hour and a half to get in. i'm pretty sure if it had been more serious i would have been treated faster, it was just an almost broken nose and mild concussion.

Eight month long waiting lists just to get an MRI

i had one quite a few years ago and i waited a week or two..

Lies. All lies. No one lives in Canada and you know it.

Lies. All lies. No one lives in Canada and you know it.

I myself have openly said I'm an American. *pukes at the thought* But I suppose you have the mailing addresses of everyone else in this thread? :rolleyes:

Every nation does. It's just how well you do it.

In a conversation I had with other Canadians who have lived abroad, an interesting point was raised. The perception of Canada in the various countries my friends and I haved lived is still of this great "true north strong and free". Going by the news reports and media coverage concerning Canada, almost nothing was ever said about a large number of incidents and continuing difficulties that are quite opposite to the image people have of Canada.

Everywhere I've travelled to, I've encountered at least a few people who wax poetic about our much vaunted medicare system. They are mostly under the impression that its working just fine. Americans in particular have strong, varied and often well thought out opinions on this subject. But none of them knew that the true state of Canadian Medicare system is a complete shambles. 5 and 6 hour waits in the Emergency Rooms of Canadian hospitals is common. Eight month long waiting lists just to get an MRI, the over work and under pay of healthcare workers leading to all kinds of strikes, years of mismanagement and greed. Its all there, and it means Canadians may soon have to swallow the bitter pill of a two-tier medicare system.
Not in Alberta. Other provinces, perhaps.

Other issues such as the terrible pollution in southern Ontario, almost all of it generated right here in Ontario, the apalling treatment of the First Nations peoples, the long bloody biker wars we've seen, the ever growing number of Crystal Meth addicts all across the country, especially in rural areas, our crumbling military, the AdScam Scandal we're dealing right now, none of it gets mentioned the forgeign countries my friends and I have lived (except in the US, where I can get hold of info otherwise effectively censored by a court-imposed publication ban, but its all from political blogs, not the mainstream media)
Pah. Some of the problems you mentioned are entirely regional, and others of a specifically political nature, and hence unimportant if I were discussing Canada with others.

I could understand these things being left unsaid if the people in the countries I've lived didn't give a crap about Canada and what happens here. I've met so many Germans who were OBSESSED with Canada. In the Netherlands, Canada's status as Liberators (ww2) means enormous good will and lots of interest in Canada. From my friends comments, in Japan, India, China, Russia, England and America there is definitely enough general interest in Canada that *some* of our scandals and dirty laundry would be worthy of a few minutes of discussion plus a couple soundbites.

I know that Canada has a pronounced inferiority complex. Canadians get all stoked when the forgeign news mentions Canada and all kinds of other silly things. This isn't about that. Its about a seemingly whitewashed reputation that we have abroad. Yeah, we're nice n' polite on vacation and good to get drunk with, but we know how to screw up just as well as any nation.

What the heck is going on here? Is that what CSIS (our intelligence service) spends all its time doing? Censoring any reputation sullying news through any means neccessary? (probably invovles donuts & hockey) Its like our news stops abruptly at our borders, while we read long well researched articles and watch documentaries about foreign political corruption, scandals etc. Nations generally gloat and chuckle when they hear of another nation's follies. So is our dirty laundry being hidden from other countries through some sort of Gov't media protocol? Is it just weird coincidence? Is that we're seen as so bland and harmless we couldn't possibly be as corrupt and scandal laden as the US,Asia and Europe?
Yes, we have our problems, like every other nation, but those things we have in common with other nations are just the very things to get played down. It's not a matter of white-washing, it's just that when you're touting what makes Canada special, it should be the *special* things that you talk about. All the rest can be taken for granted. Do you really think any (for example) Germans moving to Canada would be surprised to find out we have Crystal Meth here? or bikers? or pollution?

I was all ready to address this question with an affirmative, but the examples you gave are not a matter of hiding dirty laundry at all. Canadians do hide their dirty laundry --it's part of our 'polite' image --but I was thinking more along the line of things that Canada has *done* to other nations.

I had to watch C-SPAN (an American cable service providing coverage of political events of interest) coverage of the Canadian House of Commons to realise that there was a scandal going on within the government. Had I not stumbled upon Martin's furious self-defence on the floor, I wouldn't have known anything about any sort of crisis. And even after that, I had to go out of my way to find a webcast of CBC's The National to find any other details about it.
That's because it's so "old news" already our nightly broadcasters have abandoned it for more interesting news. Most Canadians are bored with it and wishing Harper would just shut up already.

the forty-five Americans without health insurance.
I know what you mean, but I thought this was funny and had to point it out...lol.

I had to watch C-SPAN (an American cable service providing coverage of political events of interest) coverage of the Canadian House of Commons to realise that there was a scandal going on within the government. Had I not stumbled upon Martin's furious self-defence on the floor, I wouldn't have known anything about any sort of crisis. And even after that, I had to go out of my way to find a webcast of CBC's The National to find any other details about it.

I know those of you in Canada get at least some form of U.S. news programming, so I know you know we hear almost nothing of your national politics. It seems fairly odd, considering you're our closest neighbour, we speak the same language, and we share a big wide open border.

The only inclination I got of any Canadian dirty laundry was a special the NBC show "Dateline" did about the attempts to assimilate the indigenous people, but it was focusing on events that occured many decades ago.
With the ad scandal thing, there was a press ban in Canada for a while when things first broke out. Now it's everywhere you look, but initially it was quiet here.

I used to hide my dirty laundry. Well, more like burned my soiled undies when I was a kid, didn't want mom to see the skid marks. She always wondered where all of my underwear went.

I had to watch C-SPAN (an American cable service providing coverage of political events of interest) coverage of the Canadian House of Commons to realise that there was a scandal going on within the government. Had I not stumbled upon Martin's furious self-defence on the floor, I wouldn't have known anything about any sort of crisis. And even after that, I had to go out of my way to find a webcast of CBC's The National to find any other details about it.This Ad thing has touched a nerve with most voters...

it can take down the Charest gov... and brake down the Country...

You heard it here first.

With the ad scandal thing, there was a press ban in Canada for a while when things first broke out. Now it's everywhere you look, but initially it was quiet here.
Not quite; there was a ban only on the testimony of three key witnesses in the Gomery Commission investigation.

This Ad thing has touched a nerve with most voters...

it can take down the Charest gov... and brake down the Country...

You heard it here first.


It will "take down" a majority provincial government that is immune from a non-confidence vote until the next election and slow down the rest of the country?

Or did Charest get promoted to Prime Minister over the weekend without anyone in the news noticing?

This IS news! Thanks for breaking the story to the rest of who were under this strange assumption that it was primarily a federal issue...

It will "take down" a majority provincial government that is immune from a non-confidence vote until the next election and slow down the rest of the country?

Or did Charest get promoted to Prime Minister over the weekend without anyone in the news noticing?

This IS news! Thanks for breaking the story to the rest of who were under this strange assumption that it was primarily a federal issue...Charest will lose next elections due to the Ad thing...Maybe Martin will too.

The Bloc Quebecois is going to win quebec in a landslide...

In a conversation I had with other Canadians who have lived abroad, an interesting point was raised. The perception of Canada in the various countries my friends and I haved lived is still of this great "true north strong and free". Going by the news reports and media coverage concerning Canada, almost nothing was ever said about a large number of incidents and continuing difficulties that are quite opposite to the image people have of Canada.

Everywhere I've travelled to, I've encountered at least a few people who wax poetic about our much vaunted medicare system. They are mostly under the impression that its working just fine. Americans in particular have strong, varied and often well thought out opinions on this subject. But none of them knew that the true state of Canadian Medicare system is a complete shambles. 5 and 6 hour waits in the Emergency Rooms of Canadian hospitals is common. Eight month long waiting lists just to get an MRI, the over work and under pay of healthcare workers leading to all kinds of strikes, years of mismanagement and greed. Its all there, and it means Canadians may soon have to swallow the bitter pill of a two-tier medicare system.

Other issues such as the terrible pollution in southern Ontario, almost all of it generated right here in Ontario, the apalling treatment of the First Nations peoples, the long bloody biker wars we've seen, the ever growing number of Crystal Meth addicts all across the country, especially in rural areas, our crumbling military, the AdScam Scandal we're dealing right now, none of it gets mentioned the forgeign countries my friends and I have lived (except in the US, where I can get hold of info otherwise effectively censored by a court-imposed publication ban, but its all from political blogs, not the mainstream media)

I could understand these things being left unsaid if the people in the countries I've lived didn't give a crap about Canada and what happens here. I've met so many Germans who were OBSESSED with Canada. In the Netherlands, Canada's status as Liberators (ww2) means enormous good will and lots of interest in Canada. From my friends comments, in Japan, India, China, Russia, England and America there is definitely enough general interest in Canada that *some* of our scandals and dirty laundry would be worthy of a few minutes of discussion plus a couple soundbites.

I know that Canada has a pronounced inferiority complex. Canadians get all stoked when the forgeign news mentions Canada and all kinds of other silly things. This isn't about that. Its about a seemingly whitewashed reputation that we have abroad. Yeah, we're nice n' polite on vacation and good to get drunk with, but we know how to screw up just as well as any nation.

What the heck is going on here? Is that what CSIS (our intelligence service) spends all its time doing? Censoring any reputation sullying news through any means neccessary? (probably invovles donuts & hockey) Its like our news stops abruptly at our borders, while we read long well researched articles and watch documentaries about foreign political corruption, scandals etc. Nations generally gloat and chuckle when they hear of another nation's follies. So is our dirty laundry being hidden from other countries through some sort of Gov't media protocol? Is it just weird coincidence? Is that we're seen as so bland and harmless we couldn't possibly be as corrupt and scandal laden as the US,Asia and Europe?

It's true. Canada is massively f***ed right now. We need a change in government, but not nessicarially to either the Conservatives or NDP. None of the parties are good for Canada right now.

It's true. Canada is massively f***ed right now. We need a change in government, but not nessicarially to either the Conservatives or NDP. None of the parties are good for Canada right now.

Canada has been in dire straights since 1958, when our government opted to finance American Missile Defence instead of subsidizing the Avro Arrow program. After that we became a protectorate of the U.S. and all our brightest aerospace engineers went to work for NASA and Lockheed Martin. Then, after NAFTA was signed Canadian businesses started being replaced by American franchises. To be honest, I don't blame the politicians, they're only doing what they have to do to survive next to the greatest military industrial complex the world has ever seen. Maybe the best thing for us to do is petition the U.S. to become a state. We would still have some regional control over domestic affairs and at least this way we would benefit from their expanding economy, especially once they start sucking money out of Iraq.

Not quite; there was a ban only on the testimony of three key witnesses in the Gomery Commission investigation.
It's been some time since I've got a newspaper, so I really have no clue what is going on.

I do know that I would rather have Martin than Harper in power. Even if Martin is corrupt, better corrupt than bigotted.

A nation of drama queens. This sponsorship thingy is nothing to get all worked up about. Pork-barrel politics and backroom deals in Ottawa are sooooo not new, and sooooo not the exclusive domain of the ruling Liberal party. Tory governments have gotten up to similar hijinks in the past - Mr. Harper makes me snigger with his righteous (self-righteous, surely?) indignation.

I'm no fan of Mr. Martin, and sure I'd love seeing a change in Ottawa - but damned if I'll vote in a regional, political rump-end party with a policy mandate 180 degrees off of my own political compass. I don't want change so badly that I'm willing to elect people who will do nothing to expand my freedoms while at the same time do everything in their power to undermine those things I value in Canadian society.

Thanks but no, try me again once you've figured out there's such a thing as a 'Red Tory', and that your party does nothing whatsoever to address the concerns of 'progressive' conservatives, Mr. Harper. 'Til then, you'll always be (for me, anyway) the parochial, social-conservative Reform party from the backwaters of the uber-christian bible-belt of Alberta.

I'll most likely be voting NDP in the upcoming election, whenever that may be (and I for one, hope that won't come until after we hear the final word from Justice Gomery on the sponsorship scandal. Why? I like to make informed decisions, that's why. I'd also like to see Parliament have a chance to actually get some work done, and quit with the day-to-day business of hatching schemes to oust the minority gov. It's getting old really fast). Not that my mind is made up on the NDP, I just tend to vote that way - unless I have a damn good reason to vote for someone else.

But the bastard offspring of the Reform/Alliance party and the worst aspects of the old Tory party? Fat chance. Want to talk scandal? Let's not forget Peter McKay and HIS backroom deal with Steve Harper that has left the traditional constituency of the former Progressive Conservatives with the Liberal party as the only political party that comes close to representing their political point-of-view. McKay didn't just betray David Orchard and Joe Clark, he betrayed his constituents, his party, and ultimately, his country. Now there's scandal for you. Don't hear about THAT enough in the National Putz.

I know what you mean, but I thought this was funny and had to point it out...lol.

Corrected. :D

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/01/parliament050501.html


Well, no surprise here. The reformed Tories aren't about getting any work done, just using Parliament's time (and our public dime) to try to set themselves up as the next bunch of corrupt bastards to run our lives. Jeers for playing silly power games.

Cheers for any Parliamentarians who are honestly trying to do their jobs.

(Silence ensues).

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/01/parliament050501.html


Well, no surprise here. The reformed Tories aren't about getting any work done, just using Parliament's time (and our public dime) to try to set themselves up as the next bunch of corrupt bastards to run our lives. Jeers for playing silly power games.

Cheers for any Parliamentarians who are honestly trying to do their jobs.

(Silence ensues).


:rolleyes: The liberals are corrupt, the conservatives are not yet corrupt. IT takes a few years for any party to become as corrupt as the liberals.

Just vote for the NDP or greens then if your left wing, I dont get it. The liberals need to be wiped out before they can reform....

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/01/parliament050501.html


Well, no surprise here. The reformed Tories aren't about getting any work done, just using Parliament's time (and our public dime) to try to set themselves up as the next bunch of corrupt bastards to run our lives. Jeers for playing silly power games.

Cheers for any Parliamentarians who are honestly trying to do their jobs.

(Silence ensues).

Wow, but your Parlaiment sounds so much like our Congress! (You've got more political parties, but still...)

Sometimes you just need to Un-Elect enough of the bastards to remind the rest who it is they allegedly are supposed to be working for. Here in the States, the '94 elections made certain surviving incumbents a lot more responsive to their districts than they were before '94. (not all, sadly, but a bunch) One of the flushed even came back a few years later and took Unresponsive-Republican Senator Slade Gorton's seat-and she's doing a half-decent job of representing the State!
Obviously, Canada needs a '94-style political enema to remind the Parlaiment that their jobs aren't lifetime appointments with Noble's privelages...

"Throw the Bums OUT!"

This Ad thing has touched a nerve with most voters...

it can take down the Charest gov... and brake down the Country...

You heard it here first.

Rigth now the feeling in quebec is pretty nationalist (with a yes at 54% in survey), but next election are still 2 years from now and we have a big tendancies to forget scandal. They should remake our moto to: "Je me souviens... de rien". So dont be so sure about Quebec leaving anytime soon. Also Charest is incredibly good at sinking himself, so we will probably lose the next election, but it should not be in an anti-canada feeling.

But on the federal scene we are just so screwed. We got a conservative party for the west, the liberal in ontario, the bloc in quebec and the NPD in maritimes and other place. They all have radicaly different politics views... Its like having our population devised in 3 categories while none of them have enougth power to rule the country.

I dont think conservative will have the strength to get the majority on day because of theire position on some issue like gay marriage. In the other hand, im so tired of seing these liberal laughting at us will they burn our money.

Rigth now the feeling in quebec is pretty nationalist (with a yes at 54% in survey), but next election are still 2 years from now and we have a big tendancies to forget scandal. They should remake our moto to: "Je me souviens... de rien". So dont be so sure about Quebec leaving anytime soon. Also Charest is incredibly good at sinking himself, so we will probably lose the next election, but it should not be in an anti-canada feeling.

But on the federal scene we are just so screwed. We got a conservative party for the west, the liberal in ontario, the bloc in quebec and the NPD in maritimes and other place. They all have radicaly different politics views... Its like having our population devised in 3 categories while none of them have enougth power to rule the country.

I dont think conservative will have the strength to get the majority on day because of theire position on some issue like gay marriage. In the other hand, im so tired of seing these liberal laughting at us will they burn our money.

Finally someone who knows "les Quebecois"...

Im sticking to all my predictions:

1 the bloc will get record numbers.
2 Charest will lose next elections.
3 Quebec will separate.

The AD scandal has accelerated the prossess...

Who cares if Quebec secedes? Does it really matter that much?

Montreal, last I visited, had turned into an economic cesspool.

Finally someone who knows "les Quebecois"...

Im sticking to all my predictions:

1 the bloc will get record numbers.
2 Charest will lose next elections.
3 Quebec will separate.

The AD scandal has accelerated the prossess...

Just as long as Quebec doesn't try to force itself on the U.S.!! ;)

Bilingual Canada has walked the long-way-round to try and accomodate Quebec-(I watch, er...watched, Canadian teevee for the first four years at my current address-it was clearer than the local U.S. channels.)
This will set a record of sorts, though-no Canadian Constitutional Crisis for almost eight years!

No it doesn't! I mean, I'm part of it, and I don't hide mine - *points to nice BIG laundry pile on the floor* - see?!

:rolleyes: The liberals are corrupt, the conservatives are not yet corrupt. IT takes a few years for any party to become as corrupt as the liberals.

Just vote for the NDP or greens then if your left wing, I dont get it. The liberals need to be wiped out before they can reform....

The seeds of the Reform/Alliance/New Tory corruption were sown by Steve Harper and Peter McKay when McKay sold out the Progressive Conservative party in his quest for personal power. When the Conservative party only speaks for certain conservatives (i.e. western, ultra-christian social-conservatives), it does not deserve a popular mandate to govern a country, let alone a constituency, wherein the idea of conservatism is intrinsically linked to fiscal conservatism and social progressiveness, not the backwoods, small-minded outlook of Mr. Harper's bastard-child Conservative party.

These aren't the same Tories your mums and dads voted for, people. No, you always knew where you stood with Robert Stanfield, Joe Clark, and the like. Not so these "new" Tories - they're just a bunch off American-asskissing, Republican wanna-bes.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

The new Tories are just as corrupt as the governing Libs,

Who cares if Quebec secedes? Does it really matter that much?

Montreal, last I visited, had turned into an economic cesspool.

Montreal, though recently being touted more and more as a tourist destination, never fully recovered from the FLQ Crisis/the rise of the PQ/the Anglo Exodus/interminable referenda/universal uncertainty.

Like most places, it's nice if you've got some cash. It's nothing like it was thirty years ago, though. Bigger, but not as vibrant, or as vital. On the whole, I'd say Montreal lost part of it's character mid-way through the 80s.