NationStates Jolt Archive

not me, i saw a reference to it in another news story and was surprised. i generally follow the news fairly closely but somehow i missed this war in south american ten years ago. damn how many war are there out there that just kinda sail under the radar?

I was aware of that one. Apparently, there's a bit of Ecuador inside Peru where some Ecuadoran soldiers are buried, or something like that.

There's always a war going on between those silly South American countries :p

my mom was in peru during it. there was a tank parked outside her hotel.
i still want to see machu pichu.

yes i knew of it. Just a little border dispute thats all.

Here ya go: http://www.onwar.com/aced/nation/pat/peru/fecuadorperu1995.htm

That has been an ongoing spat for some time. They were at it in 1981 and 1941, as well.

There are lots and lots of little wars that make it under the public's radar screen, most of which happen in little out of the way countries that have also slipped under the radar (stealth wars in stealth countries, if you will).

http://www.onwar.com/aced/nation/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars

http://www.onwar.com/aced/nation/
Yeah, that site is not correct. I just took a look at my country there and they listed WW II under my nation, my country was neutral in WW II and took no part in it.
They did not even list the ONLY 'wars' we have been in, the Anglo-Icelandic Cod War's I II and III. We won all three 'wars' by the way.

There are hundreds of wars that are going on all over the world, but everyone is too selfish to pay attention to them.
When the Tsunami happened, everyone rushed over to give aid
Nobody cares that millions of people are "disappeared" in south america!
It is so ridiculous.

Let's face it, there's always some kind of war or another in Latin America. I don't think that region's had peace for 10 years since the spanish and portaguess left.

The U.S. will go after North Korea. While the U.S. is distracted, China will move into Taiwan. Then, the Japanese will try to stop China. Nations will begin to take sides, and we will plunge into World War 3.

Yeah, that site is not correct. I just took a look at my country there and they listed WW II under my nation, my country was neutral in WW II and took no part in it.
They did not even list the ONLY 'wars' we have been in, the Anglo-Icelandic Cod War's I II and III. We won all three 'wars' by the way.

Only if you ignore that it was a possession of Denmark (occupied by the Germany) and that it was occupied first by the UK and then by the US, as a strategic base in the North Atlantic.

Note that this site lists Iceland as an "Allied Partner": http://www.worldwar-2.net/casualties/world-war-2-casualties-index.htm

[quote]1940 Iceland occupied by British troops.

1941 U.S. forces takes over defense of Iceland and policy of permanent neutrality abandoned.[quote]
http://www.south.is/milestones.html

Every site I've looked at on Icelandic history makes the same (more or less) claims. I'd like to see something disproving that Iceland was occupied and used as a base of naval and air operations. (You made the same claims the last time the site in question came up, and IIRC I responeded with the same information. It's been a while, so I don't remember if you answered or how.)

Only if you ignore that it was a possession of Denmark (occupied by the Germany) and that it was occupied first by the UK and then by the US, as a strategic base in the North Atlantic.

Note that this site lists Iceland as an "Allied Partner": http://www.worldwar-2.net/casualties/world-war-2-casualties-index.htm

[quote]1940 Iceland occupied by British troops.

1941 U.S. forces takes over defense of Iceland and policy of permanent neutrality abandoned.[quote]
http://www.south.is/milestones.html

Every site I've looked at on Icelandic history makes the same (more or less) claims. I'd like to see something disproving that Iceland was occupied and used as a base of naval and air operations. (You made the same claims the last time the site in question came up, and IIRC I responeded with the same information. It's been a while, so I don't remember if you answered or how.)

Iceland was not a "possession" of Denmark at that time, we had home rule. The only link with Denmark we had was that we had the same king, the king of Denmark and the king of Iceland. You see Iceland was a kingdom of it self but just had the same king as Denmark, they had no say in our matters at all.
The fact that Germany invaded Denmark had nothing to do with us, the only thing it meant was that the other country of our king was invaded. Not us.
We decleard neutrality in World War II and that never changed.
It is true that the Canadians, British and Americans invaded our land but the Alþingi, our parliment, was still very much in controll of the nation.
Do you really think just because foreign soldiers come here that we take their side? Don't be naive. The will of the Icelandic people was to stay neutral in the matter and we did. We welcomed the foreign soldiers but that does not mean anything, we would have welcomed the Germans if they had come instead. It doesnt mean anything.
What I am saying is this, the Americans come here with guns and their war. What do you think will happen? The pressure was to much so the status was changed, but thats just paper, the people wanted no part of it and the people are the country.
The staus was changed and instead America would recognize Icelands full independance, not too bad considering the fact that we did not send men to fight or do anything in the war effort. We got what we wanted for nothing.

It is true that the Canadians, British and Americans invaded our land but the Alþingi, our parliment, was still very much in controll of the nation.
And the government promptly signed over Iceland's defense policy to the US.

Do you really think just because foreign soldiers come here that we take their side? Don't be naive. The will of the Icelandic people was to stay neutral in the matter and we did. We welcomed the foreign soldiers but that does not mean anything, we would have welcomed the Germans if they had come instead. It doesnt mean anything.
The will of the people doesn't really matter. Not many American people supported the Vietnam War but the government fought anyways. In WWII, all that mattered was that the Allies had a fuckload of money and soldiers, so Iceland really wasn't in a position to turn down the Allies' suggestion that airports and military roads be built on Iceland to help against the German forces. Iceland didn't do much in the war, but clearly it was a component of the Allied war effort since supplies and manpower passed through and used it as a base against the Nazis. The fuss about "neutrality" is purely semantic... there is never any real neutrality. Nazi Germany would not have survived as long if it did not import supplies from Sweden and use the banking services of Switzerland. Sweden and Switzerland though technically "neutral" in WWII, definitely were involved in the war.

And the government promptly signed over Iceland's defense policy to the US.

Like I said, we got recognition as an independant nation form America. It was a smart move.

The will of the people doesn't really matter. Not many American people supported the Vietnam War but the government fought anyways. In WWII, all that mattered was that the Allies had a fuckload of money and soldiers, so Iceland really wasn't in a position to turn down the Allies' suggestion that airports and military roads be built on Iceland to help against the German forces. Iceland didn't do much in the war, but clearly it was a component of the Allied war effort since supplies and manpower passed through and used it as a base against the Nazis. The fuss about "neutrality" is purely semantic... there is never any real neutrality. Nazi Germany would not have survived as long if it did not import supplies from Sweden and use the banking services of Switzerland. Sweden and Switzerland though technically "neutral" in WWII, definitely were involved in the war.

The peoples will is what the government serves so the peoples will does matter. Things work in other ways here then it does in America, you go to war because it is the biggest business in America and your government really doesnt care about you the people. It needs you but they dont really care what you think about issues.
It is a fact noted in your history.
Germany never wanted to invade Iceland, only once did Adolf Hitler talk about it and the idea went out of his head just as fast as it came to him. Sure they calculated what it would take but then found it to be a waste of manpower and war goods. Iceland was too far away from Norway and it would be to great a risk to re-arm, re-man and re-fuel the soldiers, planes and ships here. Also the risk of loosing ships on the way was to great.
We would have given the foreign militaries some areas of land were they could have built what they needed, airports and such anyway.
They never would have attacked us if we had refused, it would have gone into negotiations. You didnt want to seem like tyrants now did you.
Being neutral in the war just meant that you did not pick a side, it also meant that a neutral nation could trade with all nations involved.
We were neutral as a people same as Sweden, Ireland and Swiss and many others.

Like I said, we got recognition as an independant nation form America. It was a smart move.
It was definitely smart for Iceland to join the Allies. The air force base at keflavik still provides a lot of income for the nation.

The peoples will is what the government serves so the peoples will does matter. Things work in other ways here then it does in America, you go to war because it is the biggest business in America and your government really doesnt care about you the people. It needs you but they dont really care what you think about issues.
I doubt that the Icelandic government interviewed all the Icelandic people about whether or not to turn over all defense policy to the US. It was closer to "the US just showed up, gave them a document to sign, and they did," because Iceland didn't really have anything to lose by joining the Allies. There was definitely something to gain, because Allied military bases would mean money and employment for Icelanders.

It is a fact noted in your history.
True, the government here doesn't care about peoples opinions and the US didn't care about the Icelandic people's opinions either when the american military moved in to Iceland in WWII. I don't know what the average Icelander's opinion about which side the country should support, but even if they leaned pro-Axis or neutral, in the end it was the US/UK governments that decided to make Iceland an allied base. Although being an isolationist of sorts, I disagree with the American decision to keep a base in Iceland forever.


Germany never wanted to invade Iceland, only once did Adolf Hitler talk about it and the idea went out of his head just as fast as it came to him. Sure they calculated what it would take but then found it to be a waste of manpower and war goods. Iceland was too far away from Norway and it would be to great a risk to re-arm, re-man and re-fuel the soldiers, planes and ships here. Also the risk of loosing ships on the way was to great.
We would have given the foreign militaries some areas of land were they could have built what they needed, airports and such anyway.
They never would have attacked us if we had refused, it would have gone into negotiations. You didnt want to seem like tyrants now did you.
Being neutral in the war just meant that you did not pick a side, it also meant that a neutral nation could trade with all nations involved. We were neutral as a people same as Sweden, Ireland and Swiss and many others.
It goes beyond innocent trade when a "neutral" nation supplies one side with military goods. Sweden exported enormous quantities of iron ore to the German industry during the war. They even allowed german troops to pass through Swedish soil on their way to Norway and Finland. There is no true neutrality. A country's actions will always help one side or the other. Switzerland also played a role in Axis finance and transportation. Although it is easily argued that Iceland (the country as a whole, not just the people) was far less neutral than Sweden or Switzerland, because the Allies actually built army bases on Icelandic soil.

It was definitely smart for Iceland to join the Allies. The air force base at keflavik still provides a lot of income for the nation. Agreed.



I doubt that the Icelandic government interviewed all the Icelandic people about whether or not to turn over all defense policy to the US. It was closer to "the US just showed up, gave them a document to sign, and they did," because Iceland didn't really have anything to lose by joining the Allies. There was definitely something to gain, because Allied military bases would mean money and employment for Icelanders.
Don't be naive. Most people here did not want to be involved in the war, it wasnt our war.
The U.S. didnt just walk in with the documents, it went through the proper channels in Alþingi and to the Prime Minister. Then they talked about it and signed.


True, the government here doesn't care about peoples opinions and the US didn't care about the Icelandic people's opinions either when the american military moved in to Iceland in WWII. I don't know what the average Icelander's opinion about which side the country should support, but even if they leaned pro-Axis or neutral, in the end it was the US/UK governments that decided to make Iceland an allied base. Although being an isolationist of sorts, I disagree with the American decision to keep a base in Iceland forever.
True but they did care what the Icelandic government thought about it. You do understand that America didnt just show up one day. They went through the proper channels.
The avarage oppinion of the Icelanders was leaning far neuteral at that time.
America signed an agreement and for some reason, that is the cold war being over, they are breaking it. Not big surprise really.



It goes beyond innocent trade when a "neutral" nation supplies one side with military goods. Sweden exported enormous quantities of iron ore to the German industry during the war. They even allowed german troops to pass through Swedish soil on their way to Norway and Finland. There is no true neutrality. A country's actions will always help one side or the other. Switzerland also played a role in Axis finance and transportation. Although it is easily argued that Iceland (the country as a whole, not just the people) was far less neutral than Sweden or Switzerland, because the Allies actually built army bases on Icelandic soil.
It's not like the neuteral nations really know or support what the buyer is dooing with the goods.
The neuteral nations are only doing what is best for thei econamy and nation.

I never knew they fought a war in 1995.

I'd also like to point out that it's incorrect to say that Denmark took part in WWII, just like it's incorrect to say that Iceland did. This is just to back the point that the site is incorrect by the way.

Denmark was occupied after 1941. It disappeared off the maps for a couple of years and as such, during WWII, there was no Denmark to speak of. The only involvement in the war was a few thousand danish people that got drafted and then the resistance (which took two years to start up properly unfortunately, after that it pretty much continued until Berlin surrendered).

Denmark was not involved in WWII because during WWII, it was part of Germany.

stupid wars.. human greed!!

The debate the way I see it:

The people of Iceland wanted to remain neutral in World War II.

The government of Iceland wanted an economic deal and was willing to trade with either side.

The US/UK made the first offer.

Does that sum it up?

And in responce to Kookoobird: war is humanity's way of life. Open up a history book sometime.

The debate the way I see it:

The people of Iceland wanted to remain neutral in World War II.

The government of Iceland wanted an economic deal and was willing to trade with either side.

The US/UK made the first offer.

Does that sum it up?

That sums it up, very good.

We have come to terms.

We have come to terms.
Agreed.

supposedly Earth starts a war every 6 months!

I'd also like to point out that it's incorrect to say that Denmark took part in WWII, just like it's incorrect to say that Iceland did. This is just to back the point that the site is incorrect by the way.

Denmark was occupied after 1941. It disappeared off the maps for a couple of years and as such, during WWII, there was no Denmark to speak of. The only involvement in the war was a few thousand danish people that got drafted and then the resistance (which took two years to start up properly unfortunately, after that it pretty much continued until Berlin surrendered).

Denmark was not involved in WWII because during WWII, it was part of Germany.
I hope by Drafted you mean willingly joined up!(I know there was conscription)but
Denmark probably had like the 3rd Highest number of people in the SS behind Germany and Holland

Iceland was not a "possession" of Denmark at that time, we had home rule. The only link with Denmark we had was that we had the same king, the king of Denmark and the king of Iceland. You see Iceland was a kingdom of it self but just had the same king as Denmark, they had no say in our matters at all.

Yes, I'm re-reading some of that now. Apologies.

The fact that Germany invaded Denmark had nothing to do with us, the only thing it meant was that the other country of our king was invaded. Not us.
We decleard neutrality in World War II and that never changed.
It is true that the Canadians, British and Americans invaded our land but the Alþingi, our parliment, was still very much in controll of the nation.
Do you really think just because foreign soldiers come here that we take their side? Don't be naive. The will of the Icelandic people was to stay neutral in the matter and we did. We welcomed the foreign soldiers but that does not mean anything, we would have welcomed the Germans if they had come instead. It doesnt mean anything.
What I am saying is this, the Americans come here with guns and their war. What do you think will happen? The pressure was to much so the status was changed, but thats just paper, the people wanted no part of it and the people are the country.
The staus was changed and instead America would recognize Icelands full independance, not too bad considering the fact that we did not send men to fight or do anything in the war effort. We got what we wanted for nothing.

The point was that Iceland should rightfully be listed as being involved in WWII, even though it was a (semi - due to the defence agreement) neutral party, by way of it's having been used as a Allied base. The listing is certainly unclear, and could benifit from a specific write up. But to say that Iceland took no part in that war is, IMO, ignoring history.

Would you say that other neutral who were occupied or othwise invaded took no part?

AFAIK, only Switzerland, Portugal, Ireland, and Sweden can claim to have been completely neutral throught (and even those claims may be debatable, from what I read).

Also, note that I haven't at all said that the people of Iceland ever took a side.

So, would youy agree that the site was correct in listing Iceland as having been involved in the war, even if it was not an active or willing (for the most part) participant?

Don't be naive. Most people here did not want to be involved in the war, it wasnt our war.
The U.S. didnt just walk in with the documents, it went through the proper channels in Alþingi and to the Prime Minister. Then they talked about it and signed.

Don't be naive. The people's opinions didn't matter. The "proper channels" were merely courtesies that the US went through to humor the Icelanders. As you said, the US signed a formal agreement so America wouldn't appear tyrannical. The US and UK could just as well swooped in and confiscated land in Iceland without a written agreement. But the US chose not to do this, in order to put up the appearance that Iceland's role with the Allies was mutually agreed upon. Although it is clear that it was the US, not Iceland, that decided Iceland should be a part of the Allied war effort.

True but they did care what the Icelandic government thought about it. You do understand that America didnt just show up one day. They went through the proper channels.
The avarage oppinion of the Icelanders was leaning far neuteral at that time.
America signed an agreement and for some reason, that is the cold war being over, they are breaking it. Not big surprise really.
That proves again that the Iceland people's opinions did not matter in WWII. The Icelandic people may have been neutral, but the US had a lot of money and resources that enabled it to pressure the Icelandic government into giving concessions.

It's not like the neuteral nations really know or support what the buyer is dooing with the goods.
The neuteral nations are only doing what is best for thei econamy and nation.
Read more about WWII. Many historians believe that Sweden's exports of iron lengthened the war by two years. Sweden's played a huge role in the axis side. You're being naive here... of course the Swedes knew what their iron was used for. After all, Germany was rolling over France and Russia with Panzers, if you were Sweden would you expect that Germany would be building spoons with your iron? Of course they'd be using your iron for tanks.

England several times tried to get Sweden to stop the iron exports, but Sweden continued. The Swedes even filled out specific orders for ball bearings and machine parts for German tanks, guns, planes, etc. This is not neutrality, this is actively supporting the war effort of one side of the war. What was best for Sweden's economy was also best for the Axis powers.

Which countries? Never heard about Ecuador.

Is it Équateur in french? Ah...

They did not even list the ONLY 'wars' we have been in, the Anglo-Icelandic Cod War's I II and III. We won all three 'wars' by the way.

We should have another Cod War. This time, Iceland won't be able to win by crying to NATO about closing the base at Keflavik, since nobody cares now the Cold War is over.

Never knew about that.

I knew that...jk

Well there are plenty of wars that aren't known...like the one that was decided with a chess match

my personal favorite was the Soccer War fought in the 1960s for a couple of months between Honduras and Guatemala....

the war in question here made the US network news for a couple of weeks before the OAS managed to broker a cease fire.. it was basically a series of border skirmishes

my personal favorite was the Soccer War fought in the 1960s for a couple of months between Honduras and Guatemala....

I thought it was Honduras and El Salvador

Who would fight a war over Soccer?

Tennis is the obvious choice!

We should have another Cod War. This time, Iceland won't be able to win by crying to NATO about closing the base at Keflavik, since nobody cares now the Cold War is over.
Look around you, just beacause Iceland stood up against the British invaders each naton in the world has a right to a 200nm exclusive fishing zone.
The world wouldnt stand for it if you came here again, even if you did come you would have to deal with the Icelandic Coast Guard and that has been a big problem for you in past year.
Today the fish stocks are small so there wouldnt really be a point for a 4th one.
As to your comment on the Keflavík base, well. What was really the point of having a defence force here if they were not willing to defend our waters???
Made more sence to close it then to keep them here.

I thought it was Honduras and El Salvador

you are probably right.. its been a while since I read about it and I was pretty young when it happened so don't remember the details well