NationStates Jolt Archive

What is wrong with Italy? How can they just sit and do nothing while Berlusconi is doing every single thing wrong to his nation?
If you ask me he should be in jail.
He his well on his way dragging the country to hell and people just sit and do nothing.
Oh, and his comment in the EU about the German rep. WTF. What the hell was that? He should have been shot just for that.

So, what do you guy's think about Berlusconi?

What is wrong with Italy? How can they just sit and do nothing while Berlusconi is doing every single thing wrong to his nation?
If you ask me he should be in jail.
He his well on his way dragging the country to hell and people just sit and do nothing.
Oh, and his comment in the EU about the German rep. WTF. What the hell was that? He should have been shot just for that.

So, what do you guy's think about Berlusconi?

Isn't he in the pocket of the mafia?

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending upon your point of view, Italy is a democracy which has a proportional representation system. This means that it is in a permanent state of political turmoil as alliances between politicians determine who runs the country. Berlusconi has a large popular power base, nothing to do with his owning the country's media at all, honest. As such he is the legitimate political leader of the country.

Democracy means that 1,000,000 men are wiser than 1. Or did you not know that.

Italian politics is a unique creature. While the government has allowed Italy its amazing stability and economic growth, it has always been corrupt. In fact, the only non-corrupt politicians in Italy have been the worse ones for the country, like Mussolini. Corruption is against the very essence of Italian life.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending upon your point of view, Italy is a democracy which has a proportional representation system. This means that it is in a permanent state of political turmoil as alliances between politicians determine who runs the country. Berlusconi has a large popular power base, nothing to do with his owning the country's media at all, honest. As such he is the legitimate political leader of the country.

Democracy means that 1,000,000 men are wiser than 1. Or did you not know that.

My country had the first parliment in history, I know what democracy is and I cant see it in Italy. New reports from Italy indicate that Berlusconi has never had such a low popular support rate before.
I also know that a patriot should protect his nation from all that does it harm, domestic harm also. Even protect his or her land from it's own government.
A government is not holy you know.

Italian politics is a unique creature. While the government has allowed Italy its amazing stability and economic growth, it has always been corrupt. In fact, the only non-corrupt politicians in Italy have been the worse ones for the country, like Mussolini. Corruption is against the very essence of Italian life.
Why would corruption be "against the essence of Italian life?" Traditional Italian culture and society places strong emphasis on family ties, loyalty, and blood relations. This leads to corruption and cronyism, so corruption would seem like a dominant and natural theme in Italian history and society.

Its Americas fault!

Italian politics is a unique creature. While the government has allowed Italy its amazing stability and economic growth, it has always been corrupt. In fact, the only non-corrupt politicians in Italy have been the worse ones for the country, like Mussolini. Corruption is against the very essence of Italian life.
Really???? La Cosa Nostra rules that land then?

Its Americas fault!
How's that?

Why would corruption be "against the essence of Italian life?" Traditional Italian culture and society places strong emphasis on family ties, loyalty, and blood relations. This leads to corruption and cronyism, so corruption would seem like a dominant and natural theme in Italian history and society.
Sorry. I didn't mean to add "against". I must have had something on my mind then. My bad.

If someone was honestly trying to kill you and you shot them, well I could understand that. But I don't think anyone should be shot for anything they say. A vote of no confidence for saying something stupid, that I can understand, but shooting people? No. You see, unless you put your mouth against someone's ear and shout real loud, words can't actually hurt anyone. Yes, it's definately helpful to be careful with what you say, but no, I don't think mere words merit someone being shot. Yes, I realize this stance means no shooting of Hitler if he were captured, but that's people's own fault for not making him kill his victims himself.

Really???? La Cosa Nostra rules that land then?
The Italians don't mind. They don't care, so long as it doesn't interfere in their often simplistic lives. To be honest, the only part of Italy anyone ever hears about or knows about is the North. That is mostly the work of a few industrialists, former fascists, and entrepenuers. Then there's Mezziogiorno Italia.

If someone was honestly trying to kill you and you shot them, well I could understand that. But I don't think anyone should be shot for anything they say. A vote of no confidence for saying something stupid, that I can understand, but shooting people? No. You see, unless you put your mouth against someone's ear and shout real loud, words can't actually hurt anyone. Yes, it's definately helpful to be careful with what you say, but no, I don't think mere words merit someone being shot. Yes, I realize this stance means no shooting of Hitler if he were captured, but that's people's own fault for not making him kill his victims himself.
I was being sarcastic.

The Italians don't mind. They don't care, so long as it doesn't interfere in their often simplistic lives. To be honest, the only part of Italy anyone ever hears about or knows about is the North. That is mostly the work of a few industrialists, former fascists, and entrepenuers. Then there's Mezziogiorno Italia.
Very true, the north is the only worthwhile region in Italy... although the northern fascists and entrepreneurs have now been corrupted on a grand scale and get into mafia-style crime that northern separatists always blame the southerners on. For example, the recent Parmalat implosion and the alliance between don Berlusconi and the fascist party of Mussolini's granddaughter.

Nothing is wrong with italy. It is one of the greatest countries in the world.

True, taxes are high, but no-one pays them.

You have to remember that in the 60 years since the downfall of Mussolini, Italy has had sixty plus different governments. In effect, whoever is in power is largely irrelevant. I like that.

The other thing is, if Italy's black economy is considered, it is probably the richest country in Europe.

Very true, the north is the only worthwhile region in Italy... although the northern fascists and entrepreneurs have now been corrupted on a grand scale and get into mafia-style crime that northern separatists always blame the southerners on. For example, the recent Parmalat implosion and the alliance between don Berlusconi and the fascist party of Mussolini's granddaughter.

Oh rubbish, southern Italy is delightful. I have vacationed there.

How's that?
Well after WWII they setup the political scene and got rid of all the former leaders and Instilled The Mafia!

Well thats how i heard it!
Plus Italy drives on the wrong side of the road?

Plus Italy drives on the wrong side of the road?

Only if you are from the commonwealth (excluding Canada).

Oh rubbish, southern Italy is delightful. I have vacationed there.
Ordinary people in south Italy have a lot less economic opportunities than the north because the region is quite poor and the land unproductive. The southerners plus the influx of North African immigrants in Sicily are Italy's underclass. A nice vacation where the locals work hard for your tips doesn't change the fact that the setting is not as ideal for them as it is for you. A big complaint of Italians in the north is the pervasive corruption and poverty down south which they believe drags the whole country down.

Its Americas fault!

Yes, now there's a man of reason. Get a grip.

they aren't exactly sitting around doing nothing.

in any case, the problem with italy is that it never fully dealt with the issue of fascism, and there are deep political divides between the left and the right. real ones, not the piddly bullshit americans are on about.

Very true, the north is the only worthwhile region in Italy... although the northern fascists and entrepreneurs have now been corrupted on a grand scale and get into mafia-style crime that northern separatists always blame the southerners on. For example, the recent Parmalat implosion and the alliance between don Berlusconi and the fascist party of Mussolini's granddaughter.
Well, it's Italy. It'll probably never change.j
What's weird, though, is that the fascists are allying with many others in Italian politics. Fascists and Italians do not mix.

Ordinary people in south Italy have a lot less economic opportunities than the north because the region is quite poor and the land unproductive. The southerners plus the influx of North African immigrants in Sicily are Italy's underclass. A nice vacation where the locals work hard for your tips doesn't change the fact that the setting is not as ideal for them as it is for you. A big complaint of Italians in the north is the pervasive corruption and poverty down south which they believe drags the whole country down.

While it is true that southern italy is not as rich as the north, I think that the case is vastly overstated. Many parts of southern Italy are very modern and quite cosmopolitan. Take Naples for example. Additionally, northern Italy is also very corrupt.

As to the immigrant problem, that is something that is endemic throughout Europe.

they aren't exactly sitting around doing nothing.

in any case, the problem with italy is that it never fully dealt with the issue of fascism, and there are deep political divides between the left and the right. real ones, not the piddly bullshit americans are on about.

Uh-uh, but Italian governments are notoriously ineffective when it comes to enforcing their will, so it doesn't matter as much, does it?

That's very different to, say, the UK, where people tend to do what the government tells them.

Oh rubbish, southern Italy is delightful. I have vacationed there.
Only for the tourists. The region is as different from the north as night is different from day. The Southern Italians rely on the North for welfare. They have a far worse economy. And they are more traditional in their ways.

Only for the tourists. The region is as different from the north as night is different from day. The Southern Italians rely on the North for welfare. They have a far worse economy. And they are more traditional in their ways.

Are you saying that they are unhappy? Are human rights abuses being commited there? Is it some secret Afganistan?

All the people I met in southern Italy, and have met from southern Italy, do not share your opinion.

Not everywhere has to be like the US or UK you know.

Well, it's Italy. It'll probably never change.j
What's weird, though, is that the fascists are allying with many others in Italian politics. Fascists and Italians do not mix.
The fascists allying with others is just the nautral workings of parliamentary democracy I suppose. It seems these fascist/nationalist parties are driven less by a strictly "fascist" ideology of authoritarianism than by nationalism, xenophobia, and anti-communism. My understanding is that the growth of Mussolini's party and the northern secessionist party Liga Nord is mainly based on fear of immigrants and in the latter case, fear of the south's poverty/criminal reputation. Many northern Italian separatists are racists and not only look down upon African immigrants but also southern Italians which they don't see as fully white European.

Are you saying that they are unhappy? Are human rights abuses being commited there? Is it some secret Afganistan?

All the people I met in southern Italy, and have met from southern Italy, do not share your opinion.

Not everywhere has to be like the US or UK you know.
It's not necessarily that they don't like it. I have relatives in Firzonone that would agree with me.

The fascists allying with others is just the nautral workings of parliamentary democracy I suppose. It seems these fascist/nationalist parties are driven less by a strictly "fascist" ideology of authoritarianism than by nationalism, xenophobia, and anti-communism. My understanding is that the growth of Mussolini's party and the northern secessionist party Liga Nord is mainly based on fear of immigrants and in the latter case, fear of the south's poverty/criminal reputation. Many northern Italian separatists are racists and not only look down upon African immigrants but also southern Italians which they don't see as fully white European.
My great-grandpa was from southern Lazio. He wasn't a Northerner, but he was discriminating to my grandmother, a second generation Sicilian. He accused Sicilians of being false Italians.
It's not exactly that bad these days, but it obviously exists. In fact, during WWII, the Italian army needed interpreters for the soldiers from different regions to understand eachother.

Uh-uh, but Italian governments are notoriously ineffective when it comes to enforcing their will, so it doesn't matter as much, does it?

not in much of a unified way, at least. sections of the government there have shown themselves more than willing to engage in all sorts of fucked up shit to get what they want.

Italian politics is a unique creature. While the government has allowed Italy its amazing stability and economic growth, it has always been corrupt. In fact, the only non-corrupt politicians in Italy have been the worse ones for the country, like Mussolini. Corruption is against the very essence of Italian life.
This helps explain Chicago. Although if I remember correctly the Daley's are Irish. Hmmm, the Sicilians lost out to the Irish, how sad.

not in much of a unified way, at least. sections of the government there have shown themselves more than willing to engage in all sorts of fucked up shit to get what they want.


That's every government, ever, in the history of the world.

This helps explain Chicago. Although if I remember correctly the Daley's are Irish. Hmmm, the Sicilians lost out to the Irish, how sad.
I only know a bit about the mafia during prohibition. As far as I know, Al Capone dominated Bugsy Moran's Irish mafia.

What is wrong with Italy? How can they just sit and do nothing while Berlusconi is doing every single thing wrong to his nation?
If you ask me he should be in jail.
He his well on his way dragging the country to hell and people just sit and do nothing.
Oh, and his comment in the EU about the German rep. WTF. What the hell was that? He should have been shot just for that.

So, what do you guy's think about Berlusconi?


He isnt a bad guy at all. He is a true Italian. Again said it before. Be careful with the threats to national leaders.

He isnt a bad guy at all. He is a true Italian. Again said it before. Be careful with the threats to national leaders.
Sarcasm is not a threat.

Italy seems like one of those lucky countries that - in the post war era -seem to just "keep on keepin' on" in spite of whatever happens on at the top. I don't like Berlusconi much as a leader, and he seems like an insincere fellow all-around.

Sarcasm is not a threat.

What you percieve as sarcasm can be percieved by others as a threat. Not saying either or with your case.

What you percieve as sarcasm can be percieved by others as a threat. Not saying either or with your case.
Well that is somethong "others" will have to deal with. Freedom is a great thing, you can say and do anything that you want as long as it is legal. Free speach is legal so if I really did mean it (wich I did not) there is no harm done unless I really did go ahead with it and shot him.
There are many leaders that I don't like, i.e. Berlusconi, but I would never harm any of them in real life.
I was being sarcastic, it's funny how most Europeans and Americans don't really get it.

That's every government, ever, in the history of the world.

well obviously. but not all governments have a history of fascist terrorists working with the police and army to blow up train stations so they can blame it on the anarchists and communists. or at least not many of them get caught doing it.

It's difficult to know which countries posters are from, and there is no body language, so we can't tell when people are being sarcastic. Probably best to avoid sarcasm unless you make it very obvious, particulary when talking about shooting people. There are many people in this world who are perfectly serious when they say someone should be shot. I have no way of telling if you are one of them or not.

It's difficult to know which countries posters are from, and there is no body language, so we can't tell when people are being sarcastic. Probably best to avoid sarcasm unless you make it very obvious, particulary when talking about shooting people. There are many people in this world who are perfectly serious when they say someone should be shot. I have no way of telling if you are one of them or not.
Are you kidding me????? I don't want to shoot any person, really!!!

What is wrong with Italy? How can they just sit and do nothing while Berlusconi is doing every single thing wrong to his nation?
If you ask me he should be in jail.
He his well on his way dragging the country to hell and people just sit and do nothing.
Oh, and his comment in the EU about the German rep. WTF. What the hell was that? He should have been shot just for that.

So, what do you guy's think about Berlusconi?

You want corrupt, look at Paul Martin! (Canada, kids).

Yes, now there's a man of reason. Get a grip.
You do realise i explained myself sweetie!