NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm interested in the various opinions in the group of Minutemen who are backing up the border patrol along the Mexican/US border. You've got President Bush calling them vigilantes, and Governor Schwarzenegger praising them. Your opinion?

There was an article in the Daily Telegraph about a group of 70yr old minutemen sitting out on the border for 8 hours at a time. That is just stupid, really.

Here is a thread on the same topic full of opinions to peruse:)

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=411031&page=1&pp=15

They're doing their patriotic duty by protecting our nation's borders, and they're providing food, water, and first aid to illegals who run into difficulties while crossing the desert. They are not just patriots, but humanitarians too.

This is what happens when the government won't do its job. Private citizens do it. If the President isn't happy about it, then he can hire some more border patrol.

Thanks Sinuhue. Guess I didn't go back far enough when I went looking for it.

Are they breaking any laws? If not, then I'm all for them. They're simply moving around on public property, as far as I know, not breaking any laws. IF they see something suspicious, they call the authorities.

What's the difference between that and someone in a parking lot who sees someone wander into a convenience store attempting to hide a gun.

Helping enforce the law can only be a good thing, as long as it's done legally.

They're okay, certaily doing what they think is right and so far no one has turned into an illegal hunter as was feared.

But I think the point is moot, since people wanting to cross will simply find another route, just walking around them. It's a very long border.

Oh, and the Mexican government should stop bitching about them and do something for the Mexicans for a change.

The groups been down there for over three weeks now. Have there been any claims of immigrant abuse?

I support them. I hope they continue to attract honest and sensible volunteers. I hope their presence helps stop the continued illegal border crossings.

everyone needs a hobby

i think they are getting more attention than they deserve

But I think the point is moot, since people wanting to cross will simply find another route, just walking around them. It's a very long border.

There is talk of getting enough groups together to cover the entire border from the Gulf to the Pacific.

well that would certainly be a boost to one of the most remote and economically challenged areas of the country, i dont see it lasting past the middle of may when temperatures in the desert start going over 100 degrees every day.

They're helping in a small way the job our government has been doing poorly formany a decade. Mexico boggles the mind. They have so little pride in their nation that they actively encourage their populace to flee northward to go live in a better country. Yeah, yeah, I know it is to bring in more dollars.
I typed an ending for this three times and each ending seemed worse and more idiotic than the last so I have decided to give up.

All the power to 'em, I say (within the confines of the law, of course)

Are they working with law enforcement? Or are they some kind of vilante group?

If its the former, great. I hope they do it well and safely.

If its the latter, there is a problem.

As a resident of one of the states theyre 'defending', I have to say theyre doing a pretty good job.
The first guy they caught crossing the boarder here was lost in the middle of the desert, no food, no water, no shelter. According to the guy (the Mexican) they were fairly polite when they took him to the boarder cops.
If they HADNT been there, the guy would have died.
Running around in the desert right now is NOT a good idea, aside from the fact that its bloody hot were having quite a bad rabies season.
And theres Jaguars :P

I'm interested in the various opinions in the group of Minutemen who are backing up the border patrol along the Mexican/US border. You've got President Bush calling them vigilantes, and Governor Schwarzenegger praising them. Your opinion?


Let's see... we've got armed nut jobes parading around with the Confederade flag and who also have a blood fude with a El Salvadorian gang founded during their civil war whose interduction is a brutal 12-second beating paradeing around my doorstep (I live in Texas)?

Good question.

As if "la migra" wasn't bad enough, now we have extra-legal vigilantes! :rolleyes:

However, I do appreciate that they are helping people that might have died in the desert otherwise. I think there's another group that is doing the same thing (providing water) for purely humanitarian purposes.

Let's see... we've got armed nut jobes parading around with the Confederade flag and who also have a blood fude with a El Salvadorian gang founded during their civil war whose interduction is a brutal 12-second beating paradeing around my doorstep (I live in Texas)?

Good question.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever of these Minutemen abusing any Mexicans? Or are you just spouting out ignorant, mindless opinion?

Now what do you all think of Ranch Rescue?


http://www.ranchrescue.com/


Basically they patrol the border on private property, they are armed to the teeth, and they intercept and regularly engage and confront, Drug dealers, armed mexican soldiers, and others who are crossing illegally and are armed or up to no good.

They have captured literally TONS of drugs which they turn over to local authorities or federals, whoever happens to respond to the calls.

They only patrol on their own lands or lands they have permission to be on and be armed on. Only members of the group who sign the proper papers may carry weapons (Typical weapon is an AR-15 rifle).

One of their supporters had his house blown to shreds by mexicans with fully-automatic weapons (he literally lived right on the border, but he is still alive and is doing well).




http://www.ranchrescue.com/media.htm

I volunteered with the group for two weeks. I can say most of them were not armed (most only had radios). Those of us who were armed only had weapons to protect us from the creatures that live in the desert. We treated everyone fairly, fed and gave water, and contacted the border patrol. We were just doing the job that the government is supposed to, but refuses.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever of these Minutemen abusing any Mexicans? Or are you just spouting out ignorant, mindless opinion?

I wouldn't worry so much about the Minutemen abusing the immigrants although there's bound to be a few nutjobs that will do it. What's more realistic is the idea that MA-13 will start carrying out the rumored campaign of violence against the Minutemen and it erupts into a full blown war.

Let's see... we've got armed nut jobes parading around with the Confederade flag and who also have a blood fude with a El Salvadorian gang founded during their civil war whose interduction is a brutal 12-second beating paradeing around my doorstep (I live in Texas)?

Good question.
Your stupid.

They arent nutjobs and they arent parading the Confederate flag. Some Latin American Coyotes are pissed because theyre human smuggling rings are threatened, big deal.

And yes, they are armed. I would be too when you consider the fact that you are out in a desert crawling with armed and hostile drug smugglers.

Maybe you dont understand the severity of the situation. 1/10 of the population in the U.S. is made up of illegal immigrants. Thats 30 MILLION PEOPLE. Wouldnt you at least want to KNOW who is getting in, and what they have with them?

I think the illegals probably would liked to get picked up. I saw a report on the news that the US government doesn't even deport them anymore, they just issue the illegals a bench warrant to appear in 30 days and they walk right out the door onto American streets. From there they head off to parts unknown with a small supply of bench warrant toilet paper.

In Orlando Florida they actually had to shut down construction of our new Federal Building because most of the workers were illegal aliens, I kid you not just happened last week.

The next time Al Qaeda skunks us, (and they will) it will be because of our President wanting to keep the border open for cheap workers.

they are doing their duty to keep the dirty spicks from taking over. i'd rather be dead then have spanish be the dominant language in america

They're helping in a small way the job our government has been doing poorly formany a decade. Mexico boggles the mind. They have so little pride in their nation that they actively encourage their populace to flee northward to go live in a better country. Yeah, yeah, I know it is to bring in more dollars.
I typed an ending for this three times and each ending seemed worse and more idiotic than the last so I have decided to give up.
Unfortunately the mexican government isn't exactly encouraging it's citizens to flee "to a better life". What they are encouraging is for it's citizens to get jobs in the US, and send the money back to their families still in mexico. Which is kinda smart, cuz it helps out their miserable economy.

they are doing their duty to keep the dirty spicks from taking over. i'd rather be dead then have spanish be the dominant language in america
Hey, without us the US would not have been able to fight in WW2 and keep their food production up, and now you would be speaking German!!!

And using the metric system. Although that would be good.

And German is not that bad either, at least the spelling is much easier.

The Minutemen are doing something the Federal Government refuses to do, and that's protect our borders. These men work within the confines of the law, and as long as they don't abuse people, I'm definately fine with them working along our borders keeping out illegal immigrants.

The Minutemen are Militia, and Militia are groups of normal citizens who protect their country in times of emergency and this problem with illegal immigrants is definately an emergency.

As usual a bunch of people think this is really, really, really important right along with terrorism. I pity teh fools.

My main problem with this is the term "minutemen." being used for them.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever of these Minutemen abusing any Mexicans? Or are you just spouting out ignorant, mindless opinion?


I never claimed they abused Mexicans, but I have seen the Confederate flags on thier web site, and I got the blood fude information online. But immigrants aren't much threat to me anyway. A lot of men with guns on the border are.

Your stupid.

They arent nutjobs and they arent parading the Confederate flag. Some Latin American Coyotes are pissed because theyre human smuggling rings are threatened, big deal.

And yes, they are armed. I would be too when you consider the fact that you are out in a desert crawling with armed and hostile drug smugglers.

Maybe you dont understand the severity of the situation. 1/10 of the population in the U.S. is made up of illegal immigrants. Thats 30 MILLION PEOPLE. Wouldnt you at least want to KNOW who is getting in, and what they have with them?


Yes. And I belive the border patrol can tell me. And I have seen the Confederate flag parades on their OWN website.

Yes, if you are out there, maybe you should be armed. And if you are out there armed, maybe you shoulden't be out there.

And it's not the fact that the have a blood fude, just that the fighting could wind up on MY doorstep.

I'm sure they mean well. But they could do great harm to their country.

Maybe you dont understand the severity of the situation. 1/10 of the population in the U.S. is made up of illegal immigrants.
That number seems a little bit high, do you have a source?

That number seems a little bit high, do you have a source?

While I agree that sounds high, Australia has at least 50,000 to 100,000 illegals for it's 20 million people so that 1 in 20 to 1 in 40.
Having said that, most of that is UK and US visa overstayers.

While I agree that sounds high, Australia has at least 50,000 to 100,000 illegals for it's 20 million people so that 1 in 20 to 1 in 40.
Having said that, most of that is UK and US visa overstayers.


Probably all surfer dudes.

Not to detract from the conversation or anything but its 'feud' not 'fude'. sorry but it was really pissing me off... Other than that i really don't see what's wrong with what they're doing, it's all legal, much unlike all the people they are guarding against.

They're doing their patriotic duty by protecting our nation's borders,
More like thier biggoted duty. They work thier asses off to get here so they breathe the fresh air of American freedom and you would deny them that right? Legal immigration is so complicated and tied in red tape because our goverment is a bunch of rascist fools.
They are not just patriots, but humanitarians too.
Such humanitarians that as soon as the replenish them they kick them back into thier dustbowl of a country which they were trying to get away from in the first place. "Go back to your rat infested hell you dirty Mexican!"

Foreighners are some of the most hard-working, grateful, people you'll ever meet. Alot better then alot of "real" Americans. It's just old fashioned preadjudice.

More like thier biggoted duty. They work thier asses off to get here so they breathe the fresh air of American freedom and you would deny them that right? Legal immigration is so complicated and tied in red tape because our goverment is a bunch of rascist fools.

Such humanitarians that as soon as the replenish them they kick them back into thier dustbowl of a country which they were trying to get away from in the first place. "Go back to your rat infested hell you dirty Mexican!"

Foreighners are some of the most hard-working, grateful, people you'll ever meet. Alot better then alot of "real" Americans. It's just old fashioned preadjudice.

And in CA, 75% of outstanding murder warrants are for illegal immigrants.

Your stupid.
I love it when people make that mistake.

i cannot give them enough praise!!!

they are the un-organized militia doing what needs to to be done to protect our borders because out current staffing and more importantly the laws favor the illegals.
they break no laws, they just detain illegals and then turn them over to the authorities. best of all they are doing it for free. and extra set of eyes and ears to do the job is always welcomed. and if they are fired upon i fully expect them to defend themselves with all neccisary force. hell if i lived near a border i would probably join them.

just today i was reading a report from last year on the number of convicted rapists, murderers and child molesters, that have been arrested, served jail time and been deported(or worse yet signed a little government form promising they would go back to mexico and then disapear) and then come right back across the border(this is a federal felony).
and because of "sanctuary" laws in certain states like california even if a police officer saw and recognized one of these individuals he cannot arrest them even though it is a federal crime for them to even be in this country.
one police officer went on to say in the report that he doest talk about enforcing immigration laws because of the public backlash it causes in the hispanic communities.
there have been shootouts on american soil by rival coyotes(people/groups that smuggle illegals). over 90% of the murder warrants in california are for illegals(of the 12-15,000 at the time of the article) and 2/3 of the felony criminal warrants are also for illegals.

and for the previous poster who suggested the mexican government do something about it. the US DEA will not even share information with thier mexican counterparts due to the level of corruption in the mexican government and military. recently military officials assigned to the mexican government anti-narcotics agency were arested for drug trafficking and illegal imigrant trafficking. soldiers including all the way up to generals are routinely paid off to escort drugs in to the US.

now stop and thing about that
a foreign military power is making armed incursion on US soil and the only people willing or able to do something about it are the citizens like the minutemen.

a US border patrol officer in the article complained when told by the mexican government that thier troops were on US soil because they "got lost"
if they were lost, why weren't they asking directions, instead of shooting at us?

border patrol officers also complain that the criminal gangs that run the drugs are better equipped then they are with body armour, automatic weapons and nightvision gear etc...

i will bring home the article tommorow if you want more direct statistics(they gave quite a few).

http://www.minutemanproject.com/photos/photos_2005apr02_rallies.html


Confederate flags right here, ladies and gentlemen.

Now, back in the day, people paradeing the Confederate flag on the border of a country that consists 80% of hispanics was an international incident.

Guess times have changed, huh?

The funniest thing about the whole Minuteman "Jingo In" was that Sean Hannity broke federal law on tape and still wasn't arrested. He went down there to walk with them, talk with them, find out how they're feeling and, as a lark, decided to cross the US-Mexico border. Pushed barbed wire out of the way to do it. Then crossed back.

This is, of course, illegal as the entire span of the US-Mexico border does not qualify as a legal port of reentry. And his film crew got it all on tape.

While a petty and vindictive part of me dies a little to think that he broke the law on video and wasn't arrested, it does make me wonder if he might have a point about the border patrol not really being on top of their game.

Now, back in the day, people paradeing the Confederate flag on the border of a country that consists 80% of hispanics was an international incident.

Mmmh... isn't Mexico technically 100% Hispanic (whatever that means)?
And the Confederate flag really has no meaning to Mexicans, so it shouldn't be a problem.

http://www.minutemanproject.com/photos/photos_2005apr02_rallies.html


Confederate flags right here, ladies and gentlemen.

Now, back in the day, people paradeing the Confederate flag on the border of a country that consists 80% of hispanics was an international incident.

Guess times have changed, huh?

Confederate flag..... Note the "singular" as in ONE... And it is the "North Carolina Battleflag" to be more specific.... The rest of the flags are California, Colorado, Texas, U.S., Kentucky, Massachusetts, Arizona, Maryland... I also saw a POW/MIA, United States Marine Corps, and United States Air Force flag.

The groups been down there for over three weeks now. Have there been any claims of immigrant abuse?
There was a news report of some guys that saw a guy passing the border who made him put on a shirt that said something like 'my friend caught an illegal alien and all he got me was this lousy shirt" and then they took a bunch of pictures of him. they let the guy into the states, and then he turned in the minutemen... haha

I love it when people make that mistake.
haha, it's not my stupid, it's your stupid...

Yes. And I belive the border patrol can tell me. And I have seen the Confederate flag parades on their OWN website.

Yes, if you are out there, maybe you should be armed. And if you are out there armed, maybe you shoulden't be out there.

And it's not the fact that the have a blood fude, just that the fighting could wind up on MY doorstep.

I'm sure they mean well. But they could do great harm to their country.

Yes, there was one at the rally-we can see that in the 'Photos'. I thought the sign "Behind every Bush you find a Fox" to be more political-you have to remember that the North Carolina Battle Flag doesn't carry the same significance everywhere you go. In many subcultures in this country that aren't sheet-wearing sociopaths or neo-nazis, it's more or less a "rebel" thing the way that kids wearing baggy-pants is a 'rebel' thing in other subcultures. These guys are pissed because the Fed won't do the job. (not can't, but won't)

(For my fellow americans who don't know-Vincente Fox is the president of Mexico. the aforementioned sign is a dig at the U.S. administration and a dig at the Mexican government. Thus proving you don't have to be a Democrat to dislike Bush...)