NationStates Jolt Archive

I read recently that the W-man said this once:

It is impossible to rule the world without the Bible.

I had no idea that the first US President George "entangling alliances" Washington was an imperialist!

I read recently that the W-man said this once:



I had no idea that the first US President George "entangling alliances" Washington was an imperialist!
If true it sounds more like an endorsement of the bible than of world domination.

Hmmm, it may have been commentary on the way the governments of europe worked.

It is kind of difficult to judge his intent without the context in which it was said/written.

I'd like to see a source, as I was under the impression that many of the founding fathers were generally atheists.

I'd like to see a source, as I was under the impression that many of the founding fathers were generally atheists.

Not atheists, deists.

Well I was there, and Georgie did say that.

Georgie was a WASP, not stupid atheist.

The real quote:

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."

He's saying God and the Bible are necessary components of government, without which it cannot be governed in the proper manner. He was not an imperialist, but by today's standards, a fundamentalist.

The real quote:

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."

He's saying God and the Bible are necessary components of government, without which it cannot be governed in the proper manner. He was not an imperialist, but by today's standards, a fundamentalist.

By today's, and especially this board's, standards, everyone who even acknowledges that Christianity(religion) might have a place in society, is considered a fundamentalist. Even an agnostic like myself.

Wow, talk about unwieldy sentences.

goerge washington made peole grow cannabis :cool:

The real quote:

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."

He's saying God and the Bible are necessary components of government, without which it cannot be governed in the proper manner. He was not an imperialist, but by today's standards, a fundamentalist.
And any explanation as to why a deist would say that? I'm pretty damn sure that it's just a case of someone inventing a quote and attributing it to Washington.

The real quote:

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."

He's saying God and the Bible are necessary components of government, without which it cannot be governed in the proper manner. He was not an imperialist, but by today's standards, a fundamentalist.
i wonder what Washington might think of the advanced governments that came before christianity... the Roman Empire, the 'cradle of civiliastion' the ancient Polis of Athens?

those very successful, advanced and 'civilised' governments were immoral, or were 'not governed in the proper manner'? :confused:

if he said a government could not rule in the proper manner without ethics and morals, then i would wholeheartedly agree (they are, of course, subjective, but whatever...)

i wonder what Washington might think of the advanced governments that came before christianity... the Roman Empire, the 'cradle of civiliastion' the ancient Polis of Athens?

those very successful, advanced and 'civilised' governments were immoral, or were 'not governed in the proper manner'? :confused:

if he said a government could not rule in the proper manner without ethics and morals, then i would wholeheartedly agree (they are, of course, subjective, but whatever...)

Well, considering that the US Founding Fathers based their government heavily on Athens and Rome, I'd say he held those governments in very high regard.

And any explanationas to why a deist would say that? I'm pretty damn sure that it's just a case of someone inventing a quote and attributing it to Washington.
Maybe he wasn't as deist as you think.

In Washington's farewell adress he endorsed religion in government, too :
Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?

and to think that I used to look up to George Washington

I'm fairly sure that Washington was christian. It was Franklin, Jefferson, and the other guys behind the scenes who were deists.

By today's, and especially this board's, standards, everyone who even acknowledges that Christianity(religion) might have a place in society, is considered a fundamentalist. Even an agnostic like myself.

Wow, talk about unwieldy sentences.
I cackle at the left's ignorance. It's amazing how I have to defend this sweet Christian girl at another forum and i'm her best friend. She raves about how i'm so nice and wishes I lived near her. :fluffle:

And I'm pretty sure she's aware I worship the devil. HER VIRGIN SOUL SHALL BE MINE! >: D

Well, considering that the US Founding Fathers based their government heavily on Athens and Rome, I'd say he held those governments in very high regard.
quite true.
sorry, i'm in an odd devils advocate kinda mood this eve...

I'm fairly sure that Washington was christian. It was Franklin, Jefferson, and the other guys behind the scenes who were deists.

Actually, Franklin and Jefferson are the only two that I've actually heard evidence for them being deists, and jefferson seemed to waver between deism and Christianity quite a bit.

Actually, Franklin and Jefferson are the only two that I've actually heard evidence for them being deists, and jefferson seemed to waver between deism and Christianity quite a bit.

I think Jefferson was more in agreement with Christ rather than Christanity. As I understand it, the quote on his memorial refers to Christian Clergy of Philadelphia.

They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

And any-one who says this is definitely not a Christian

Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

More here
http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm

I think the farewell address sets out exactly what he meant by the quote at the top. He basically thought that society and law could not cope without the moral sense of people to support them, and that morality had to come from the bible. I agree with him on the first point, and had I lived in his time I would probably have agreed with him on the second.

Hmmmmm

Well you have to remember that the times were different back then, too. I think Christianity's toehold on the word was firmer, there was more fear of the christian God and more pressure to be christian. Also, a good number of the colonists were Puritans... perhaps there's some politics to beliving somewhat in their religion? Don't want riots or anything

I'd like to see a source, as I was under the impression that many of the founding fathers were generally atheists.

well, Washington was actually part of the secret organization of masons, which is, in truth, a religion.

Hmmmmm

Well you have to remember that the times were different back then, too. I think Christianity's toehold on the word was firmer, there was more fear of the christian God and more pressure to be christian. Also, a good number of the colonists were Puritans... perhaps there's some politics to beliving somewhat in their religion? Don't want riots or anything

well, duh, the pressure was stronger. you were basically an outcast in you weren't a Christian. reference, Salem witch trials

I read recently that the W-man said this once:
"It is impossible to rule the world without the Bible."

more like
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible"

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/chr_heritage.html

I read recently that the W-man said this once:



I had no idea that the first US President George "entangling alliances" Washington was an imperialist!

Actually that quote is off an on refferend either to Washington or Madison.... It is what is known as a "questionable" quote... It is found everywhere in Revisionist claims, yet the quote cannot be sourced reliably to any founding father to which it has been scribed to...

I can however bring up several Washington quotes with reliable sources...


I have often expressed my sentiments, that every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.

George Washington, letter to the General Committee of the United Baptist Churches in Virginia, May, 1789


The blessed Religion revealed in the word of God will remain an eternal and awful monument to prove that the best Institution may be abused by human depravity; and that they may even, in some instances be made subservient to the vilest purposes. Should, hereafter, those incited by the lust of power and prompted by the Supineness or venality of their Constituents, overleap the known barriers of this Constitution and violate the unalienable rights of humanity: it will only serve to shew, that no compact among men (however provident in its construction and sacred in its ratification) can be pronounced everlasting an inviolable, and if I may so express myself, that no Wall of words, that no mound of parchm[en]t can be so formed as to stand against the sweeping torrent of boundless ambition on the side, aided by the sapping current of corrupted morals on the other.

George Washington, fragments of the Draft First Inaugural Address, April 1789


The establishment of Civil and Religious Liberty was the Motive which induced me to the Field — the object is attained — and it now remains to be my earnest wish & prayer, that the Citizens of the United States could make a wise and virtuous use of the blessings placed before them.

George Washington, letter to the Reformed German Congregation of New York City, November 27, 1783



The foundation of our Empire was not laid in the gloomy age of Ignorance and Superstition, but at an Epoch when the rights of mankind were better understood and more clearly defined, than at any former period, the researches of the human mind, after socia

George Washington, Circular to the States, June 8, 1783


The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights.

George Washington, to the Annual meeting of Quakers, September 1789



We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition, and that every person may here worship God according to the dictates of his own heart. In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man's religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.

George Washington, letter to the Members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793


Among the features peculiar to the political system of the United States, is the perfect equality of rights which it secures to every religious sect.

James Madison, letter to Jacob de la Motta, August 1820


Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect.

James Madison, letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774


That diabolical Hell conceived principle of persecution rages among some and to their eternal Infamy the Clergy can furnish their Quota of Imps for such business,

James Madison, letter to William Bradford, January 24, 1774


The civil rights of none, shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext infringed.

James Madison, proposed amendment to the Constitution, given in a speech in the House of Representatives, 1789

What that ealier quote was, was an invention by the Revionist movement... They have a tendency to "invent" support for their claim in America's founding, merely to further their goal to turn America into pre-enlightment period of European history, where religion was used to further war and bloodshed...

Washington smoked cannibis and Benjimen Franklin wanted Louis and Clark to keep an eye out for prehistoric creatures on their expedition.

Be glad that we have received their wisdom, hard won by the sweat of their intellects. Build upon it. Don't bind yourself to their wisdom and folly both.

We today are as great as Washington was, and just as human.