NationStates Jolt Archive

But you cannot get really drunk if you don't.

What I propose, is lower the drinking age in USA to 18. I mean by law, at 18 you are an adult, and able to make reasonable decisions, and take responsibility for them. You can drive, join the military, have sex, purchase pornography, smoke, have a gun, and vote. So it doesn't make sense that you cannot drink for 3 years too. I mean I'll be out of college, by the time i am allowed to legally drink. And it's not like this law is that enforced: i mean most people in college are not 21, yet they still drink heavily.

So what are your opinions on this?

But you cannot get really drunk if you don't.

What I propose, is lower the drinking age in USA to 18. I mean by law, at 18 you are an adult, and able to make reasonable decisions, and take responsibility for them. You can drive, join the military, have sex, purchase pornography, smoke, have a gun, and vote. So it doesn't make sense that you cannot drink for 3 years too. I mean I'll be out of college, by the time i am allowed to legally drink. And it's not like this law is that enforced: i mean most people in college are not 21, yet they still drink heavily.

So what are your opinions on this?
So, if I understand what you're saying, whatever a significant minority of people would like to see legalized should be? Hmm.

I live in Australia, where the drinking age is ALREADY 18, so I guess I think you should do it too!

But you cannot get really drunk if you don't.

What I propose, is lower the drinking age in USA to 18. I mean by law, at 18 you are an adult, and able to make reasonable decisions, and take responsibility for them. You can drive, join the military, have sex, purchase pornography, smoke, have a gun, and vote. So it doesn't make sense that you cannot drink for 3 years too. I mean I'll be out of college, by the time i am allowed to legally drink. And it's not like this law is that enforced: i mean most people in college are not 21, yet they still drink heavily.

So what are your opinions on this?

Yeah, I agree. There'd probably be even less drinking. Buuut.... it scares the old people.

Old people control the law.

So, if I understand what you're saying, whatever a significant minority of people would like to see legalized should be? Hmm.
I am saying that there is no reason to forbid alcohol to 18, 19, and 20 year olds.

The states all have control over the drinking age within their borders but the Federal government threatens to cut certain fundings if they lower it. So really unless a state grows a pair and decides to stand up to the Federal governemt its going to stay at 21. Though I am for the lowering of the age limit. If I can go to war and die for the country I sure as hell want to be able to get drunk as well.

i think its ridiculous to have adults barred from drinking alcohol. 18 is an adult, 18 should have all the rights of an adult.

i also think that it should be OK for anyone over 16 to drink with parental supervision. thats supervision not just permission.

I'm sixteen, and i find it ironic that in two years I will be considered mature enough to help decide who runs this country, but not responsible enough to have a beer or two with some friends.

On an even more ironic note, its far more easy for the youth of today to get their hands on marijuana, a completely illegal drug, than any sort of alcohol, which is sold at corner stores. (I would know)


I think it would be cool to do it the way france does it, i.e. have two seperate limits. In this case, however, it would be 18 for wine and beer, 21 for everything else, as compared to France's 16 for wine and beer and 18 for everything else.

...at 18 you are an adult...You can drive, join the military, have sex, purchase pornography, smoke, have a gun, and vote.

Note: Emphasis added

More specifically, you can own a rifle. You have to wait until 21 to purchase/own a sidearm/handgun and associated licenses. Should we lower the age for sidearms to 18 as well?

But... back to your question:

Teenagers already go out and get drunk before 18, so if the age is lowered to 18, it simply means they'll be doing it legally sooner. People who want to drink are going to drink, just as people who want weapons will get weapons, regardless of legality.

EDIT: Currently (in Texas at least), minors may consume alcohol in the presence of their parents/legal guardians in their homes. Just FYI.

From my understanding, the drinking age used to be 18. Maybe 10 or 20 years ago? But the decision was made to raise it. 18 seems reasonable to me, but I don't think it will happen.

I am saying that there is no reason to forbid alcohol to 18, 19, and 20 year olds.
Yes there is. Even though 21 seems rather arbitrary, so would 18 be, plus most 18 year old ( including me, when I was that age ) are not capable of handling alcohol in even a semi-mature manner.

Way back when I was 18 we could drink. In fact the first legal drink I ever bought was in a US Navy club when I was 17 after boot camp. In those days you drink at 17 with a US military ID.

I must have really hosed things up because they won't let you kids near it these days. I blame the freaked out baby boomers. They don't want their special lilttle bundles to get all drunk and fall down. Your parents should just staple "Baby On Board" signs to your foreheads and have done with it.

Yes lower it to 18, it works over here. 16 is too young though, 16 year olds are morons.

From my understanding, the drinking age used to be 18. Maybe 10 or 20 years ago? But the decision was made to raise it. 18 seems reasonable to me, but I don't think it will happen.
it was legal to drink at 18 when i was 18, it went back to 21 not too too long after i turned 21. its not going to go back in the foreseeable future.

it doesnt have to be right, it just has to be good politics.

oh yeah i was 18 in 1975

After further consideration, if I could I would retract my vote and put "it should be lower than 18", because it seems to work in other nations.

Yes lower it to 18, it works over here. 16 is too young though, 16 year olds are morons.

In Belgium the drinking age is 16 and you hardly ever see a drunk person. In Iceland the drinking age is 20 and you have what can only be described as a drunken riot in downtown every weekend.

In Belgium the drinking age is 16 and you hardly ever see a drunk person. In Iceland the drinking age is 20 and you have what can only be described as a drunken riot in downtown every weekend.
Thats why I wanted to retract my vote and mark the third choice, but alas...megh.

most 18 year old ( including me, when I was that age ) are not capable of handling alcohol in even a semi-mature manner.

and they don't seem to do too well when you give it to them at 21 either. but this is all just an artifact of the allure of the forbidden.

I am saying that there is no reason to forbid alcohol to 18, 19, and 20 year olds.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/RNotes/2005/809860.pdf

They say minimum age drinking laws have saved about 22,000 lives (cumulative) by 2002. Seems like a reason to me.

Thats why I wanted to retract my vote and mark the third choice, but alas...megh.

It's a fun riot though ;)

Yes there is. Even though 21 seems rather arbitrary, so would 18 be, plus most 18 year old ( including me, when I was that age ) are not capable of handling alcohol in even a semi-mature manner.

Just out of curiosity Eutrusca... When I was 18 I earned my private pilot lisence. I finished my flight instructor rating at 19. I am now 20, I teach people how to fly light aircraft. In my spare time I fly FO on a Kingair. * A small business turbo prop.* I also have time in a Citation I. Now, At most I have been entrusted and have proven myself responcible enough to handle a 6000lb peice of metal flying worth two million through the clouds at 240kts. Now I have been told I can not be entrusted with a beer?

I think lowering the age to 18 would be appropriate considering you can sign up for the military, even before that with parental consent, and you can vote.

I really couldn't care less. I'm 18, and have no desire to drink, but if I did, alcohol is not hard to come by. People are going to be morons about it either way.

In Belgium the drinking age is 16 and you hardly ever see a drunk person. In Iceland the drinking age is 20 and you have what can only be described as a drunken riot in downtown every weekend.

Perhaps it's the countries then. If you lowered the drinking age to 16 here, you'd just have more people in the pubs than drinking at home.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/RNotes/2005/809860.pdf

They say minimum age drinking laws have saved about 22,000 lives (cumulative) by 2002. Seems like a reason to me.


Gee I bet if we raised the drinking age to thirty you'de save even more, probably forty or fifty thousand!

If we raised the driving age to thirty you'de save even more lives!

Just out of curiosity Eutrusca... When I was 18 I earned my private pilot lisence. I finished my flight instructor rating at 19. I am now 20, I teach people how to fly light aircraft. In my spare time I fly FO on a Kingair. * A small business turbo prop.* I also have time in a Citation I. Now, At most I have been entrusted and have proven myself responcible enough to handle a 6000lb peice of metal flying worth two million through the clouds at 240kts. Now I have been told I can not be entrusted with a beer?
Surely you already know that you were not the "typical" 18 year old, yes?

It's 18 up here in Canada, and everything is ok, so I went for 18

Perhaps it's the countries then. If you lowered the drinking age to 16 here, you'd just have more people in the pubs than drinking at home.

I don't know why it's such a drastic difference. We had a prohibition on beer&wine untill 1986 (make them drink vodka to counter the drinking problem? That makes sense :rolleyes: ) Since the lighter stuff was legalized and the closing times of pubs was no longer restricted, things have improved and people drink less. I don't know the reason for it, but the strict laws seem to encourage people to drink.

Yes lower it to 18, it works over here. 16 is too young though, 16 year olds are morons.
You know, some people in NS are 16, and get offended.

Surely you already know that you were not the "typical" 18 year old, yes?

Very much so. I have seen haven't even moved out thier parent's basement yet. I see the points on both sides. I still have a good laugh that I could rent a light twin but I could not get a rental car.

Gee I bet if we raised the drinking age to thirty you'de save even more, probably forty or fifty thousand!

Probably. Alcohol has even less of a practical purpose than marijuana and over 15,000 people die each year in alcohol-related accidents - 40% of all traffic deaths. Seeing as how there's no real positive purposes to alcohol, less so than even marijuana or some other illegal drugs, we should really be moving to make it less accesible, rather than more so.

I don't know why it's such a drastic difference. We had a prohibition on beer&wine untill 1986 (make them drink vodka to counter the drinking problem? That makes sense :rolleyes: ) Since the lighter stuff was legalized and the closing times of pubs was no longer restricted, things have improved and people drink less. I don't know the reason for it, but the strict laws seem to encourage people to drink.

Where are you from? I agree that part of the allure for underage drinking is that it is illegal. I just don't think 16 year olds, or at least enough of them, are responsible enough to be getting drunk. If it stops them though, that's fine, it's a weird world we live in.

You know, some people in NS are 16, and get offended.
You're right. Morons was too harsh a word, I apologise. I just think that at that age, people are controlled as much by their hormones and peer pressure as they are their own thoughts. Though if they are going to let them have sex at 16, might as well let them have booze too I suppose, they go hand-inhand very well anyway.

Probably. Alcohol has even less of a practical purpose than marijuana and over 15,000 people die each year in alcohol-related accidents - 40% of all traffic deaths. Seeing as how there's no real positive purposes to alcohol, less so than even marijuana or some other illegal drugs, we should really be moving to make it less accesible, rather than more so.

Surely you know that the forbidden substance is used alot at hospitals? And it's not that great an evil. The Americans allready tried the total prohibition thing and it didn't work out.

Where are you from? I agree that part of the allure for underage drinking is that it is illegal. I just don't think 16 year olds, or at least enough of them, are responsible enough to be getting drunk. If it stops them though, that's fine, it's a weird world we live in.

Iceland, though, like the finnish (I've never seen anything like finnish people drinking, it's nuts) we are known to be quite extreme when it comes to alcohol (there are theories that this stems from the climate and the light). But from what I've seen, the french and the belgians don't really have any restrictions on alcohol and they seem to handle it better than most other places.

I think it's irnoic really how in Europe there's no drinking age on things like wine and beer and they aren't abused. In America though, you have 15 year old kids gettnig bootlegged whiskey.

Europeans do it right. They water the stuff down a lot and give it to the child when they're young, like 4 ish and teach them the way to be responsable with it then.

Really, 21 is a ridiculous minimum age. However, I think the adoption of European and British (there is a difference on this issue) drinking practices would be wise. Get some proper cosy old-man pubs. And some decent ale, for heaven's sake.

You know, some people in NS are 16, and get offended.

Hell, I'm 16 and I agree with him. Except for me, of course; I'm awesome.

I think it's irnoic really how in Europe there's no drinking age on things like wine and beer and they aren't abused. In America though, you have 15 year old kids gettnig bootlegged whiskey.

Europeans do it right. They water the stuff down a lot and give it to the child when they're young, like 4 ish and teach them the way to be responsable with it then.

what the fuck are you talking about? to my knowledge every country in europe has a drinking age on wine and beer. often its lower than the limit for spirits, but still. don't make shit up on whim.

Yes lower it to 18, it works over here. 16 is too young though, 16 year olds are morons.

I resent that, its a tad stereotypical, but yes, most people my age can't make a responsible choice.

Hell, I'm 16 and I agree with him. Except for me, of course; I'm awesome.
Hehe, good stuff.

Make the legal drinking age 19 just to keep it the hell out of high schools. Beyond that, let the kids go nuts. And police could be encouraged to look the other way if the underage drinker is a college student and is out of HS.

Keep the drinking age at 21. High schoolers get the alcohol whether it's legal or not, so at least make it hard for them so they can learn how to make fake ID's early in life.

Keep the drinking age at 21. High schoolers get the alcohol whether it's legal or not, so at least make it hard for them so they can learn how to make fake ID's early in life.

speaking of which, as a 16 year old...

-avoid holograms
-avoid magnetic strips; the fake ones are usually just ink.
-go for an out-of-state id, preferably far away

places to go if you're in the tristate area:
best locale is NYC, specifically some of the tattoo parlors in greenwich village and a few shops in Times Square.


21 my ass; my freshman year a friend of mine's biology class spent a full class period passing around a water bottle full of vodka while the teacher lectured. like i said earlier, its easier to get narcotics than alcohol, which just shows how out of whack the country's priorities are.

I think it's irnoic really how in Europe there's no drinking age on things like wine and beer and they aren't abused. In America though, you have 15 year old kids gettnig bootlegged whiskey.

Europeans do it right. They water the stuff down a lot and give it to the child when they're young, like 4 ish and teach them the way to be responsable with it then.
When I was 13, I got REALLY drunk.
After that, I learned my lesson, and haven't been drinking more than one drink per week.

what the fuck are you talking about? to my knowledge every country in europe has a drinking age on wine and beer. often its lower than the limit for spirits, but still. don't make shit up on whim.

To buy it yeah, not to drink it though.

To buy it yeah, not to drink it though.

in only a few countries.

you're still retarded.

When I was 13, I got REALLY drunk.
After that, I learned my lesson, and haven't been drinking more than one drink per week.

word. in september 2004 I drank myself almost to the point of being comatose. .210 blood alcohol content when i came into the hospital, three and a half full glasses of vodka (and these were big glasses), the works. I've learned my lesson since then, and I've been very careful and responsible about what i do and how i do it.

Yes, 16 years olds should not be allowed to drink for many reasons. Mainly because they are young and impressionable. Intoxication is glorified everywhere and it is sucked in to the adolescent mind.

Think about this, most teenagers get their driver's license when they are 16. An overwhelming percentage of these teens have at least one (if not more) wreck in their first year of driving. Now, if alcohol was thrown into that equation wouldn't there be an enormous increase in the occurence of accidents and deaths in young people?

Yes, 16 years olds should not be allowed to drink for many reasons. Mainly because they are young and impressionable. Intoxication is glorified everywhere and it is sucked in to the adolescent mind.

Think about this, most teenagers get their driver's license when they are 16. An overwhelming percentage of these teens have at least one (if not more) wreck in their first year of driving. Now, if alcohol was thrown into that equation wouldn't there be an enormous increase in the occurence of accidents and deaths in young people?
I think that most people get at least one wreck during their first year of driving. Age has nothing to do with it.

Yes, 16 years olds should not be allowed to drink for many reasons. Mainly because they are young and impressionable. Intoxication is glorified everywhere and it is sucked in to the adolescent mind.

Think about this, most teenagers get their driver's license when they are 16. An overwhelming percentage of these teens have at least one (if not more) wreck in their first year of driving. Now, if alcohol was thrown into that equation wouldn't there be an enormous increase in the occurence of accidents and deaths in young people?

the country should instead concentrate on making the drinking of alcohol seem like less of a serious thing. I have friends who've driven home drunk against their will because if they didn't their parents would have found out and gotten really pissed. theres a lot of pressure on kids to succeed in this day and age, especially with college applications and the like, and the concept of being caught indulging themselves scares my age group more than the actual indulging itself. were drinking not such a big deal, my friends would have been able to call their parents to come pick them up, ensuring a safe ride home. yes, they've all gotten home safely so far, but its only a matter of time.

It's been said before but it bears repeating for maximum lollitude

If having the drinking age at 21 has saved so many lives... Why don't we just ban alcohol altogether?!

This isn't serious.

I think that most people get at least one wreck during their first year of driving. Age has nothing to do with it.

You may be right on that. BUT, if you legalized alcohol to 16 year olds that are new drivers, don't you think that there would be a dramatic increase in wrecks and deaths?

the country should instead concentrate on making the drinking of alcohol seem like less of a serious thing. I have friends who've driven home drunk against their will because if they didn't their parents would have found out and gotten really pissed. theres a lot of pressure on kids to succeed in this day and age, especially with college applications and the like, and the concept of being caught indulging themselves scares my age group more than the actual indulging itself. were drinking not such a big deal, my friends would have been able to call their parents to come pick them up, ensuring a safe ride home. yes, they've all gotten home safely so far, but its only a matter of time.

If that were really the case, I think they might have lowered the age by now. But, you can never tell with the American government.

It's been said before but it bears repeating for maximum lollitude

If having the drinking age at 21 has saved so many lives... Why don't we just ban alcohol altogether?!

This isn't serious.

The United States attempted to ban alcohol. In 1919, the 18th ammendment was ratified, making alcohol as illegal as marijuana, or cocain.
Needless to say, it didn't work. It became an illegal enterprise. Mob bosses began buying out bars in cities and using them to sell alcohol, all you had to do was know where to find these little bars. I forgot what they were called. In fact, this is how Al Capone made most of his money early on.

Yes lower it to 18, it works over here. 16 is too young though, 16 year olds are morons.


Let me just state that morons exist in all age brackets. :D

Leave it where it is, the dedicated will get it illegally and kill themselves, saving the rest of us.

Let me just state that morons exist in all age brackets. :D

Leave it where it is, the dedicated will get it illegally and kill themselves, saving the rest of us.

I agree. :)

in sweden you can have (legal) sex at 15
vote and be examined by the military at 18 (you got to be real lucky/unlucky to be accepted into the military today)

you can legally drink at 18 (bars and such) but you cannot purchase the heavier stuff till your 20 (dosnt stop a 13-14 year old to acuire booze tho)

in sweden you can have (legal) sex at 15
vote and be examined by the military at 18 (you got to be real lucky/unlucky to be accepted into the military today)

you can legally drink at 18 (bars and such) but you cannot purchase the heavier stuff till your 20 (dosnt stop a 13-14 year old to acuire booze tho)

and i agree 18 is a sutible age to start drink.

They should either lower the drinking age to 18 or raise the draft age to 21. If you're adult enough to lay down your life for your country, in my opinion, you are also old enough to drink. Period.

In the time of Socrates, people were not considered legal adults until the age of 25. Looking at the ridiculous state of my country at the moment, that wouldn't be a bad position to adopt...

I am saying that there is no reason to forbid alcohol to 18, 19, and 20 year olds.
..except biology.

EDIT: Currently (in Texas at least), minors may consume alcohol in the presence of their parents/legal guardians in their homes. Just FYI.
It's that way in New York too; I think it's a federal law. If a parent wants to serve their 5 year old scotch, they can.

It used to be 18, but then it got changed (late 70's, I believe). I personally don't have an opinion either way, because people are going to drink if they want to.

In the time of Socrates, people were not considered legal adults until the age of 25. Looking at the ridiculous state of my country at the moment, that wouldn't be a bad position to adopt...

Of course girls got married at age 13. :rolleyes:

Iceland, though, like the finnish (I've never seen anything like finnish people drinking, it's nuts) -SNIP-
What!?! You utter bastard! An insult like that can only lead to a drinking duel! Choose your poison.

Surely you know that the forbidden substance is used alot at hospitals? And it's not that great an evil. The Americans allready tried the total prohibition thing and it didn't work out.
Morphine is used at hospitals, too. Whats you're point?

For most of Junior High and High, I spent my summers in Europe. I went by myself and lived with relatives, mostly in Germany, but also in Belgium and The Netherlands. It always felt so weird coming back to Canada and not being able to order a beer with my meal (while only 16)

I've been drunk all over the place, and one thing I noticed, especially at events like Oktoberfest is that most Americians can't hold their liqour. I live in a city with the biggest Oktoberfest outside of Munich, right here in southern Ontario. Hordes of American college kids descend upon the city to take advantage of the lower drinking age.

For some reason, your average group of American college kids can't just get drunk and have good time with eachother. They seem to beleive that its only a good drunk if you get incredibly loud and noisy, puke somewhere you really shouldn't, berate the police officers called inh to haul their ass out of the bar, pick fights and just generaly act like the most arrogant and rude group of drunken lager-louts ever to have had a pub-crawl.

I'm not saying that Canadians and most Europeans never act this way when drunk, and I'm not saying all Americans do. The distinction however is that what for a Canadian is the occasional exception to the rule, to a GROUP of Americans IS the rule.

I think if they were allowed to legaly drink at an earlier age, they'd have gotten all that annoying stuff out of their systems by age 19 or 20.



Even here in Canada, where the drinking age is NINETEEN (its only 18 in Quebec, to my knowldge) there is a considerable amount of underage drinking, usually starting around age 14 or so. Many people ask "If they're gonna get drunk anyway, why try to stop them?"

It seems to work in Germany, The Netherlands and Belgium, and the teenagers there are no less prone to being wild than the ones over here.

Of course girls got married at age 13. :rolleyes:

Yes, but they weren't having children that young, unlike today's society, where you have unmarried 13 year olds becoming mothers... :rolleyes:

Yes, but they weren't having children that young, unlike today's society, where you have unmarried 13 year olds becoming mothers... :rolleyes:
Yes they were, except, possibly in Sparta (not where Sophocles was). And how is unmarried 13 year olds becomming mothers worse than married 13 year olds becomming mothers. On the contrary, it was worse, because it was the norm, rather than the exception.
Edit: Sorry, I meant Socrates.

Yes they were, except, possibly in Sparta (not where Sophocles was). And how is unmarried 13 year olds becomming mothers worse than married 13 year olds becomming mothers. On the contrary, it was worse, because it was the norm, rather than the exception.

For starters, because menarche did not occur in many girls at age 13 in that day and age. The age at which menstruation occurs is directly related to health and nutrition, hence the reason why we have girls reaching menarche earlier in the modern day, due to better overall health and nutrition, and other factors such as hormones in meat. Also, most people that married that young lived with the parents and were chaperoned until they were old enough to live on their own and start families.

How is it worse? The first thing that comes to mind is that there is no husband to care for the new mother and her child, provide shelter, clothes, food, etc.

I thought it was already 18... Of what country are you talking about?

I thought it was already 18... Of what country are you talking about?

U.S.A. The legal drinking age here is 21 in all states, due to federal pressure applied by threatening to withhold federal highway funds unless state legislatures complied.