NationStates Jolt Archive

Assume for a moment that the current AdScam political scandal in Canada causes the current Liberal Party government to fall. Further assume that this gives the Parti Québécois just enough impitus to secede (the 1995 referendum failed by about one a percentage point, IIRC).

What happens next?

The US annexes Quebec, deports anyone speaking French, and gives it back to Canada.

well working with your assumptions, i'd say there would be another referendum in Quebec. And as much as i don't want to see it happen, it will probably come out as a favour to seperate.

But then again, that's a simple view. The whole process it will of course be more complicated, with the entire country involved.

I can understand where the Quebecois are coming from because i live with a lot of them on campus. What i cannot agree with--even from the 1995 referendum-- was the fact that if sovereignty was granted, Quebec would become it's own "nation," yet it would still adopt the canadian dollar and be integrated economically. It was a pick and choose game and i don't agree with that at all.

The current status of Quebec within Canadian federalism is different than many other provinces. Granted, while it is still a "province" it has many other rights that other provinces don't--for example, immigration authority which should be under federal juridiction. Also, Quebec is often given the chance to represent itself as a french canadian entity at Francophonie summits throughout the world, again a representation that should be co-ordinated from Ottawa. So seperation, if it is going to be promoted under the same principles of the 1995 referendum is merely a way for the world to recognize Quebec as a "nation," while many changes, apart from politic make up will be subtle if not existent.

(note, this is my opinion on the matter because i know how sensitive this issue is).

Well, given current polling numbers - 47% in favour of and 53% against...it is posisble for the numbers to swell in favour of, especially considering that the Bloc is gaining a strong foothold in Quebec these days, pushing out the Conservatives, who don't have much of a chance there statistically... Which could mean that we might be faced with another referendum.

well working with your assumptions, i'd say there would be another referendum in Quebec. And as much as i don't want to see it happen, it will probably come out as a favour to seperate.

Erm, that Québéc secedes [i]is one of the assumptions. ;)

[quote]But then again, that's a simple view. The whole process it will of course be more complicated, with the entire country involved.

I can understand where the Quebecois are coming from because i live with a lot of them on campus. What i cannot agree with--even from the 1995 referendum-- was the fact that if sovereignty was granted, Quebec would become it's own "nation," yet it would still adopt the canadian dollar and be integrated economically. It was a pick and choose game and i don't agree with that at all.

The current status of Quebec within Canadian federalism is different than many other provinces. Granted, while it is still a "province" it has many other rights that other provinces don't--for example, immigration authority which should be under federal juridiction. Also, Quebec is often given the chance to represent itself as a french canadian entity at Francophonie summits throughout the world, again a representation that should be co-ordinated from Ottawa. So seperation, if it is going to be promoted under the same principles of the 1995 referendum is merely a way for the world to recognize Quebec as a "nation," while many changes, apart from politic make up will be subtle if not existent.

(note, this is my opinion on the matter because i know how sensitive this issue is).



So what happens after it secedes? Whither Canada? What of the Maritimes, separated from the main part of Canada?

So what happens after it secedes? Whither Canada? What of the Maritimes, separated from the main part of Canada?
like Alaska separated from washington state...

The sky is not going to fall...and the maritimes are not going to sink....trust me.

I don't know why Québec wants to secede. Really, apart from the pride and that sentimental fluff, it doesn't make sense. What kind of political clout are they going to have? The US is going to piss all over them, it already does so with Canada, it will do much more over Québec. What economic power are they going to project? Plus, Québec already has problem keeping its population numbers up, how are they going to attract more immigrants on their own?

...The US is going to piss all over them, it already does so with Canada...are you Amerikano by chance?

are you Amerikano by chance?
From America, not the US.

Assume for a moment that the current AdScam political scandal in Canada causes the current Liberal Party government to fall. Further assume that this gives the Parti Québécois just enough impitus to secede (the 1995 referendum failed by about one a percentage point, IIRC).

What happens next?
Some sort of union with France I should think but they would have a hard time keeping the loyals out.

From America, not the US.so..where from amigo?

Assume for a moment that the current AdScam political scandal in Canada causes the current Liberal Party government to fall. Further assume that this gives the Parti Québécois just enough impitus to secede (the 1995 referendum failed by about one a percentage point, IIRC).

What happens next?

Easy. They separate, and 20 years later they come back bitching that their economy colapsed and their population is dwindling.

Separation is really a stupid idea, with very few bennefits. Québec is already the spoiled rich kid (read: province) in Canada, they have more freedom than any other province. If they want to leave, that's fine. That's their choice. But you'll bet there will be pretty angry people on both sides.

Some sort of union with France ...I have lived in Quebec, and I can tell you they dont like the French very much...

In a way they admire the US...and they will adopt the US currency and Postal system...

first on a trial basis...and if there is an agreement on a permanent basis...

they will inmediately stregthen their trade with the US...specially electricity sales to NY and all New England...

It's about pride. I might have a different insight than a lot of y'all because Ilive in South Carolina, part of the south in the USA where the bitterness of the civil war still leaves a vague bitter taste. The point being pride plays a strong point in people's opinions at a time. Most probably won't realize the certain hardships they'll have to go through if they break with Canada until it happens. At the moment, most people have sectionalism on the brain to an extreme level.

I myself as I don't know too much about the issue don't really have an opnion.

so..where from amigo?
Mexican, living in Canada at the moment.

I have lived in Quebec, and I can tell you they dont like the French very much...

In a way they admire the US...and they will adopt the US currency and Postal system...

first on a trial basis...and if there is an agreement on a permanent basis...

they will inmediately stregthen their trade with the US...specially electricity sales to NY and all New England...
Good.

i cant stand quebec,if there gonna be a leach and suck off the US let them one less parasite for us to worry about.at least people wont think all Canadians are french

In a way they admire the US...and they will adopt the US currency and Postal system...

first on a trial basis...and if there is an agreement on a permanent basis...


Whaa? The Quebecois tend to be the most anti-US in Canada! It's hard to imagine them adopting an American system of anything after what the US did to discourage Frankophones in Maine.

the future of Canada is in the hands of a Frog...

Whaa? The Quebecois tend to be the most anti-US in Canada! It's hard to imagine them adopting an American system of anything ....Im an US-American living in Quebec...I should know better than you.

that doesnt mean you know about all of quebec and the US.

that doesnt mean you know about all of quebec and the US.It means what i just said...nothing more, nothing less.


It means that I should know better than him...as advertised.

no it doesnt.
just becuase i am Canadian that doesnt mean i know everything about Canada.

assuming he is a Canadian...If he was an USamerican living in quebec for 10 years...then yes he knows the degree of sympathy Quebequers have for "les Americains"

no it doesnt.
just becuase i am Canadian that doesnt mean i know everything about Canada.
for what you have typed so far...you know very little about "les Quebecois"

He's not saying he knows everything about the US or Quebec. He's giving his opinion based on inferences he can make. I can't believe y'all are actually even fighting over who knows Quebec better.

I can't believe y'all are actually even fighting over who knows Quebec better.I would prefer it does not happen...
but Quebec is going to separate...Largely because they know almost nothing about the quebecois.

I just want to clarify something.

Back in 1995, when the referendum failed by only one percent, I heard rumors that parts of Canada said they would petition to become at first territories in the US and shortly afterwords would be granted statehood. I can't remember which provinces were mentioned, but does anyone know if there was any truth to this?

Just my two cents.

If Quebec seceded and a war followed, the US would step in immediately. As much as it hurts for me to say this, America is heavily dependent on imports from Canada, lumber, grain, oil, electricity, etc. That and America would not be to keen about a war being fought just over the longest unprotected border in the world. Perhaps the US would even have to maintain a demilitarized zone along the Canadian/Quebec.

But as for the seperation of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and New Foundland, that is a BS excuse and little more. Hawaii is seperated from the rest of the US by thousands of miles of ocean and Alaska is also seperated by thousands of miles.

I would prefer it does not happen...
but Quebec is going to separate...Largely because they know almost nothing about the quebecois.
This is true. But still makes no sense to me, what do the quebecois expect to gain from it? Québec has a lot of political maneouverability inside Canada, and being inside Canada gives them the ability to exercise greater independence than if they were their own country, where they would be at a greater disadvantage playing the political game against Canada and the US instead of against Ontario and British Columbia.

I would prefer it does not happen...
but Quebec is going to separate...Largely because they know almost nothing about the quebecois.

A Quebecois friend of mine said it the other way around:

That the Quebecois would separate because they know almost nothing about the rest of Canada. He said he was personally a separatist until he got to know some of us western Canadians, and realized we weren't like he had been told and believed.

Québec has a lot of political maneouverability inside Canada, and being inside Canada gives them the ability to exercise greater independence than if they were their own country..Give me one example of a country that gained statehood...and lost political maneouverability...or independence or whatever....

keep in mind that quebec is about 1/4 the size of Canada (land, population and economy)

The last thing a new Quebec nation would want to do is play two world powers. That'd be like begging for the independence to be taken away.

I know almost nothing about Quebec, but from what y'all are saying, they have it good and don't realize it. That'll be their downfall.

If Quebec seceded and a war followed, the US would step in immediately.
War? I doubt the Canadians would go to war over Québec's secession. That would be unpolite.

War? I doubt the Canadians would go to war over Québec's secession.
I think its extremely unlikely...

but if it does happen...yes, I think the US would "peacify the borders"

I think its extremely unlikely...

but if it does happen...yes, I think the US would "peacify the borders"

Or sell arms to both sides. Either one.

If Quebec seceded and a war followed, the US would step in immediately. As much as it hurts for me to say this, America is heavily dependent on imports from Canada, lumber, grain, oil, electricity, etc. That and America would not be to keen about a war being fought just over the longest unprotected border in the world. Perhaps the US would even have to maintain a demilitarized zone along the Canadian/Quebec.

Canada isn't mid 19th century America. First of all, any seperation would be based on a referendum, not on military action. I also must disagree with the recurring use of the term "secession." In all reality, the question posed to Quebecers in the past referendums didn't suggest a Quebect that would be a completely seperate nation. Also pollsters are now asking Quebecers whether they support Independance if it means remaining a part of Canada with an Economic and Political partnership. Not exactly Civil War style "secessation"

Give me one example of a country that gained statehood...and lost political maneouverability...or independence or whatever....

Bangladesh, half of subsaharian Africa, a good chunk of SE Asia and part of the middle East. Agreed, they never had that much maouvering capability, but neither does Québec in the grand stage.

keep in mind that quebec is about 1/4 the size of Canada (land, population and economy)
Exactly. And Canada is about, what? 20% the US economy? maybe less? That would mean Québec would have to go against an economy 300% larger and another one 2000% larger. And in a world that includes China and India, that's not a good position.

And Canada is about, what? 20% the US economy? 7% is the number

BTW Bangladesh did not lose independence when they gained statehood...its the other way around.

7% is the number

BTW Bangladesh did not lose independence when they gained statehood...its the other way around.
Yes, technically they become sovereign states and that means nobody can tell them what to do or not inside their own territory. Unless they want to trade with another country, or not be invaded, or bring in tourists, etc. etc. There are all these rules between nations, some nations are powerful and have a lot of say in the making of these laws. Others aren't so powerful and can't say as much, even if they want to. The less powerful you are, the less you can pick and choose.

Sure, Québec will gain the power to make French the only official language and take the Queen off their currency, but they will also lose a few other things.

Im an US-American living in Quebec...I should know better than you.


Your only seeing your small region of Québec then because over the vast majority of the province he is right and they are /highly/ anti-american. this from a French-Canadien away for schooling in more sane regions of the world.

Your only seeing your small region of Québec then because over ....And what is in your opinion the "small region of Quebec" ???

and what sane region of the World are you talking about...???

reminds me ot the "civilized world" statement

Canada isn't mid 19th century America. First of all, any seperation would be based on a referendum, not on military action. I also must disagree with the recurring use of the term "secession." In all reality, the question posed to Quebecers in the past referendums didn't suggest a Quebect that would be a completely seperate nation. Also pollsters are now asking Quebecers whether they support Independance if it means remaining a part of Canada with an Economic and Political partnership. Not exactly Civil War style "secessation"

Kind of sounds like China/Taiwan to me.