NationStates Jolt Archive

...from Dan Savage at The Onion. God, PLEASE let some of this sink in!

http://www.theonionavclub.com/savagelove/index.php?issue=4117

Some highlights:

The 15 Things I Wish I Had Known When I Was 15
1. Confidence is sexier than big boobs, a tiny waist, or long blond hair will ever be.
2. Medicated face wash will save your life.
3. Fifteen-year-old guys are just as shy around girls as girls are around them.
4. Making the first move is no longer taboo.
5. Chances are, he is not picking up on the subtle "I like you" signals you're sending out. A smile here and "Hi" there will not be enough for him to know you like him; you may have to tackle him in the hallway with a note that spells it all out, in no confusing terms.
6. At 15, three weeks constitutes a "long-term" relationship.
7. Rejection is not the end of the world, unless you make it that way.
8. You have the boobs; you make the rules.
9. That being said, having the power of the boobs is like having The Force; be careful how and when you use it.
10. Not all guys are created equal.
11. Your mom is right; that outfit DOES make you look like a whore.
12. There WILL be rumors.
13. Being fun and funny will get you further than being catty and bitchy.
14. He's not as great as you think he is.
15. The most popular, pretty girl in school is just as awkward and confused as you are.

Adrienne H.
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I work as a teen librarian, which means that a variety of 12- to 18-year-olds attempt to attract each other within earshot every day (it's often as ugly as it sounds). I have three pieces of advice for your 15-year-old female reader. First, don't forget about hygiene! I see a lot of girls that are so busy trying to catch some guy (or girl's) eye that they forget the basics like, uh, showering and wearing deodorant. Second, don't try to be something you're not. I see a lot of girls that go the opposite end of the hygiene thing, and coat themselves with a layer of makeup that's an inch thick. Wearing whore makeup and pants that fall four inches under your ass-crack might get you attention, but trust me, girls, it's not the kind of attention you want. And lastly, get a damn hobby or something! If you want to attract quality guys who are actually going to be interesting, stop giggling when they walk by, and think of something interesting to talk about. Hope this helps!

Acronyms Are Tricky
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What do I wish I knew at age 15? That I should live my life as if I would never have a man. I wish I had known that I should be financially self-sufficient, that I should cultivate interests in things I enjoy, that I should grow friendships that will stand the test of time. I wish I'd known then that I should make a life for myself that I enjoy and find fulfilling. And then if a guy comes along who can complement‹not substitute for‹my life, he is the gravy, not the whole damn meatloaf.

And I wish I had known‹and this is important‹that a good, emotionally healthy man will appreciate me for being a human being with a full life outside of any sexual or romantic relationship. Any man who expects less is not someone I want to waste a Saturday night on, let alone the rest of my life.

Joyful In Baltimore
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It's been 55 years since I was 15, and although I know many things have changed, I'm betting that getting a boy's interest is much the same. Be friendly toward boys in an honest and open way. Practice a genuine smile and use it. Talk to boys that you know and show interest in what they have to say. Keep an open mind about which boys you might like to know better. Don't set your heart on the cute football player, ignoring the quiet guy who sits behind you in math class. Don't go after a boy who is dating someone else. Remember that boys make great friends, and that is just as important as having a "boyfriend." For now, stick with boys within a year or two of your own age. You can branch out later when you have more experience. Don't walk, run from a boy who makes fun of you, doesn't want you to have other friends, or hurts you physically in any way. If he won't leave you alone, get help from an adult. If you do start "going out" with a boy, be sensitive to the cost of dating. Share expenses and look for activities that do not cost much. Don't be in a hurry to become intimate. If you feel that things are moving in that direction, talk it over with someone you trust. Get your birth-control information from someone older who you know has the facts, and do those things you need to do to protect your health and your future.

Remember that not all your relationships will work out. There will be some heartache along the way, but this is a wonderful and exciting time in your life. If you develop honest and open relationships with boys now, you will be setting a good standard for the rest of your life.

Jan
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Two words: Skin care. It sucks to look 35 when you're only 24. Just because you have acne now, girls, that doesn't mean it won't clear up later. Keep it clean, moisturize, and use sunscreen! And not just when you go to the beach, but a mild SPF on even overcast days will keep your skin healthy.

Skin-Care Nazi
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I'm an adult female reader, and this is what I know now that I wish I knew when I was 15:

I wish I hadn't rushed into having sex with a partner. The orgasms I was able to give myself at 15 were great fun, and I was incredibly creative in finding new ways to make myself come. When I started having sex, it was with other teenagers, and the orgasms were few and far between. And the sex really wasn't all that fun.

Wishing She Could Turn Back Time
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It doesn't matter if you are skinny, fat, braces, glasses, unpopular, or the most popular girl in school, because when you get out of school, none of this matters anymore. What men want is a woman that believes she is attractive. The more attractive you feel, the more attractive men will find you.

That said, I recommend...
1) Exercise. Men like healthy women. Please notice that I didn't say skinny women, but healthy women. If you exercise and eat healthy, your skin will be bright and smooth, you will feel better about yourself, and you will be active, which all men find attractive.
2) Read. Real men like smart women.
3) Confidence. This is really the most important. If you think that you are a "good catch," men will too.

A Confident Woman In Boston

I endorse these morsels of advice.

After running columns packed with advice for 15-year-old straight boys and 15-year-old straight girls, how can I say no to dedicating a couple of columns to 15-year-old queers? Adult gays and lesbians: What do you know now that you wish you had known at 15? Send it to me and I'll pass it along to all those teen queers.

Just as I was thinking "What sort of heteronormative claptrap is this that Dan is just allowing to sully his column?", I read that. Nice to know it's just temporary. Now, what would I advise young gay guys to do differently... hmm...

I wish I knew about these things when I was fifteen( 2 years ago). And I wish there were so guidelines for boys too. That way I could use it...

What do I wish I knew at age 15? That I should live my life as if I would never have a man. I wish I had known that I should be financially self-sufficient, that I should cultivate interests in things I enjoy, that I should grow friendships that will stand the test of time. I wish I'd known then that I should make a life for myself that I enjoy and find fulfilling. And then if a guy comes along who can complement‹not substitute for‹my life, he is the gravy, not the whole damn meatloaf.

<snip>

Joyful In BaltimoreBut... but... but... But I'm one fine piece of meat! :(

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

Hmm...Good advice. I hope it sinks in. I find that frequently people can read and hear advice that's golden, but can't accept/act on it.

Even the most basic advice is hard to take when you're stuck in a situation where you feel over your head. The "Yes, but.." response comes out more often when you've reasoned yourself into a corner.

I have three pieces of advice for your 15-year-old female reader. First, don't forget about hygiene! I see a lot of girls that are so busy trying to catch some guy (or girl's) eye that they forget the basics like, uh, showering and wearing deodorant.

Hey, some of us have a thing for crusty members of the oppostie sex, y'know? Not for 15 years old though.

Girls these days make me want to jump off a cliff... You can never find any 16 year old girls into politics or anything that dosent include who's the cutest doorag wearing guy in school... blasted doorags

Girls these days make me want to jump off a cliff... You can never find any 16 year old girls into politics or anything that dosent include who's the cutest doorag wearing guy in school... blasted doorags
I have (two of them), just happens to be that they are rabid republicans.

Its fine as long as their not one of those religious warmongrels, then its just screwed up

Girls these days make me want to jump off a cliff... You can never find any 16 year old girls into politics or anything that dosent include who's the cutest doorag wearing guy in school... blasted doorags

The girls at your school don't give a shit about politics, huh? That's funny, that's how all the guys are at my school, except this one pedantic little 8th grader who takes it WAY too far, but even if I still liked him (and hadn't found myself a boyfriend), he already rejected me.

Confidence is sexier than big boobs, a tiny waist, or long blond hair will ever be.

BAH! At 15, guys aren't into confidence and I highly doubt any of the 15 year old girls are using this advice to attract the 'confident but nerdy' looking guy in the corner anyway. BAH! Teenagers are morons, otherwise this is some solid advice, they'll never listen to it though.

But... but... but... But I'm one fine piece of meat! :(

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

uh huh...yea...shure...
me however.. im the entire meal ;-)

message deleted

Girls these days make me want to jump off a cliff... You can never find any 16 year old girls into politics or anything that dosent include who's the cutest doorag wearing guy in school... blasted doorags
Like I said in your "need advice" thread ... practice patience! :p

The girls at your school don't give a shit about politics, huh? That's funny, that's how all the guys are at my school, except this one pedantic little 8th grader who takes it WAY too far, but even if I still liked him (and hadn't found myself a boyfriend), he already rejected me.
A "pedantic 8th grader?" :eek:

uh huh...yea...shure...
me however.. im the entire meal ;-)
:rolleyes:

I believe this is a very good thread, adn I dont' want it to die

I believe this is a very good thread, adn I dont' want it to die

*calls priest and starts digging hole.*
the enivitable will always happen
:(

Girls these days make me want to jump off a cliff... You can never find any 16 year old girls into politics or anything that dosent include who's the cutest doorag wearing guy in school... blasted doorags


you have reminded me that I hate the damned stupid doorags. Is that to cover unwashed hair ?

Sorry, I shouldn't have posted. My posts are either too inisghtful to warrant any further discussion of a topic; or so stupid that they scare of other posters from entering the intelligence black hole I have created. This leads to me regularly killing threads and in this case, it was the latter cause.

Forgiveness please!

Sorry, I shouldn't have posted. My posts are either too inisghtful to warrant any further discussion of a topic; or so stupid that they scare of other posters from entering the intelligence black hole I have created. This leads to me regularly killing threads and in this case, it was the latter cause.

Forgiveness please!

*goes onto knees*
Hail Bogstonia, please allow us to bask in your posting glory.
We are no worthy of your conversational brilliance, please teach of your might
:p

*goes onto knees*
Hail Bogstonia, please allow us to bask in your posting glory.
We are no worthy of your conversational brilliance, please teach of your might
:p

Rise up my son. I shall lead you on a journey of conversational fulfilment! I am the light and the way!

I, the lingual deity, shall guide my brothers through the darkness of poor grammar and lowly banter to a place of unheralded informative discussion, free from the vices of post boosting and the bastardisation of our languages. The forums of Earth shall be remade with posters in my image and all who do not abide by me will be cast into bulletin boards of evil code and ignorant opinions!

Follow me to enlightenment!

My advice for 15 year olds?

Muddle through it, college is a lot more fun.

Also beware of adults. Right now you are stinky, spotty, and annoying smart asses. The only thing an adult (who suddenly finds you facinateing) wants from you is cheap labor or sex, (probably both).

Also beware of threads like this one. "Offering Advice" unsolicited and out of the blue to a targeted age group is a common lure used when fishing for the underaged in chat rooms. Let the police who patrol chat rooms for cyber sexual predators check out the poster of this thread and never ever reply.

Never trust anyone online. Never give any personal info.

Wow -- I was just indirectly accused of grooming NS teenage girls for my own slimy, nefarious purposes. As a public school teacher, I can assure you this post was designed to answer a lot of the questions I've seen in some of the other threads that actually asked for advice. My fingerprints are on file with state and national databases as per licensing procedure -- I've got nothing to hide. I'm not at all insulted by the implication that I might be a person looking to lure someone -- in fact, I'm glad you posted that, because it's certainly true that adults who prey on teenagers tend to do so in the guise of sage advisors. My school just torched one a few months ago, in fact. That's why I included the one response to Savage from the woman who said "beware of older men."

I see so much misinformation, urban legend and claptrap passed off as fact in the halls of my high school that I feel a need to try to address it in an anonymous way, and a way I would never be able to at my school. Frankness about such important topics is frowned on if not prohibited for reasons I can grasp, but not support.

Anyway, thanks for all of your posts. I tried.

Bump, dammit.

Bump...?

Advice I wish I could give to a 15 year old me:

Buy... Microsoft... IPO... stock.

"You have the boobs, you make the rules."

That's one I didn't agree with. What kind of sexist bullshit is that? What if I said, "You have a penis, you make the rules" as advice to teenage males to hold and cherish throughout their lives? I'd be called a sexist pig.

I'm glad I've never dated a girl who thought that merely having boobs meant she had some kind of executive, legislative or judicial power over anyone.

Like I said in your "need advice" thread ... practice patience! :p
I agree with him here... you're 15 - have fun! Serious relationships are a drain on life, and sex is not the be-all and end all, nor is the thrill of chase.

Girls these days make me want to jump off a cliff... You can never find any 16 year old girls into politics or anything that dosent include who's the cutest doorag wearing guy in school... blasted doorags

Um... I'm 15 (close enough) and I do care about politics, not doorags, as do my friends, who also happen to be 15-year-old girls. So this is a very bad generalization. :headbang:

"You have the boobs, you make the rules."

That's one I didn't agree with. What kind of sexist bullshit is that? What if I said, "You have a penis, you make the rules" as advice to teenage males to hold and cherish throughout their lives? I'd be called a sexist pig.

I'm glad I've never dated a girl who thought that merely having boobs meant she had some kind of executive, legislative or judicial power over anyone.
dude, that above rule for girls hits a little too close because its true. They say "no", it means no. Last guy we had rape a girl in my area was literally lynched outside the courthouse--haven't had anny repeat offenses and nobody has done the same within the county for 5 years. Who said chilvary's dead?

...Last guy we had rape a girl in my area...so he was killed before or afte the ruling?

after, during transport...it was a pretty open-shut case and she testified against him. cops didn't care too much about it, just saved them the trouble of arranging it to happen to him in County.

...just saved them the trouble of arranging it to happen to him in County.You mean...It save them the electric bill for the execution?

dude, that above rule for girls hits a little too close because its true. They say "no", it means no. Last guy we had rape a girl in my area was literally lynched outside the courthouse--haven't had anny repeat offenses and nobody has done the same within the county for 5 years. Who said chilvary's dead?

Because I do not think any partner gets to enforce "rules" on anyone doesn't mean I'm pro-rape, or anti-having-rights.

1. Dont dress like a bum, dress like a man
2. Show confidence without being a jerk
3. For god sakes get a haircut
4. Girls respect dependability
5. You would be suprised what manners can get you
6. You have the balls, you make the rules
7. Make the right rules
8. Stick to your guns, even if you know your outspoken
9. Have some class!
10. When you meet a girl see how she treats her father, thats how she will treat you
11. Remember, girls think a job at McDonalds is cool, but WOMEN wont.
12 . Remember to be a caveman from time to time
13. Remember to be a gentleman most of the time
14. A car with bondo on it is cool at 15, its not at 30
15 Learn everything you can, dont let anyone do something for you that you could do yourself

.

Making the first move is no longer taboo.

<snip>

Chances are, he is not picking up on the subtle "I like you" signals you're sending out. A smile here and "Hi" there will not be enough for him to know you like him; you may have to tackle him in the hallway with a note that spells it all out, in no confusing terms.


This is so true... I figured out the first one when I was thirteen - way ahead of my time there :)

The second one I figured out the hard way. Men just aren't subtle. Understanding this, using subtleties to tell them things just isn't going to work. Its not their fault, its just how they think. So ... if you want something, just tell them straight out!

1. Dont dress like a bum, dress like a man
2. Show confidence without being a jerk
3. For god sakes get a haircut
4. Girls respect dependability
5. You would be suprised what manners can get you
6. You have the balls, you make the rules
7. Make the right rules
8. Stick to your guns, even if you know your outspoken
9. Have some class!
10. When you meet a girl see how she treats her father, thats how she will treat you
11. Remember, girls think a job at McDonalds is cool, but WOMEN wont.
12 . Remember to be a caveman from time to time
13. Remember to be a gentleman most of the time
14. A car with bondo on it is cool at 15, its not at 30
15 Learn everything you can, dont let anyone do something for you that you could do yourself

Scrap #6 and you've got a (nearly) perfect guideline; both of you should have a equal say in a relationship.

As a little thing to add to that, if women want to be respected and wish not to be discriminated by men, they will not discriminate men and respect them for what they are.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind women, lesbians, gays, or straights for that matter but as soon as you get either pushy, or intollerable of others I introduce you to the business end of my whacking stick.

Scrap #6 and you've got a (nearly) perfect guideline; both of you should have a equal say in a relationship.

As a little thing to add to that, if women want to be respected and wish not to be discriminated by men, they will not discriminate men and respect them for what they are.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind women, lesbians, gays, or straights for that matter but as soon as you get either pushy, or intollerable of others I introduce you to the business end of my whacking stick.


Nope, six stays. A boy who is becomming a man needs to learn to be incharge. A ship can't have 2 captains, a household cant have two heads. However, part of being a good captain on a ship is listening to the advice of the XO (2nd in command). Same with a household. A man needs to be in charge, but he better learn to listen to the what the wife has to say before he makes his decision

Nope, six stays. A boy who is becomming a man needs to learn to be incharge. A ship can't have 2 captains, a household cant have two heads. However, part of being a good captain on a ship is listening to the advice of the XO (2nd in command). Same with a household. A man needs to be in charge, but he better learn to listen to the what the wife has to say before he makes his decision

I disagree with your assesment of WHY number 6 should stay, but I believe that six is absolutely essential.

A household is not a military command but rather an alliance of two equal partners. For one to dominate the other at all times is innefficient, cause no man is better equipped to deal with life in absolutely every situation; there are times where either partner needs to understand that they are at a disadvantage.

Thus "You have the balls, make the rules" should be placed right up there with "You have the boobs, make the rules" BOTH sexes have equal say.

Lets take this back to sex. The boy wants to have it 100%, the girl doesn't 100%. That means they don't have it because the girl doesn't want it, tie goes to the defender. The boy's desire does not override the girl's...but neither can the girl tell that boy that he cannot have sex, just that he cannot have sex in a relationship with her (hopefully, only at that time). Literally, if the boy takes exception to this, he can go elsewhere; he does not need to stay and put up with it.

When you view your partner and yourself as equal partners in a relationship, the give-and-take becomes more apperant. But that means you HAVE to negotiate. You must communicate with your partner to make sure neither one of you is getting screwed. That is where things get difficult.

Arguments are part of a relationship. If you ever hear of a couple who's "never been in a fight" that couple has merely not REACHED its first fight yet. For whatever reason, someone's been backing down.

Its healthy to disagree, and by extension, its healthy to squabble with your partner in a productive manner. Just remember that you're fighting against your partner to find the best solution to a problem...not fighting for some obscure victory.

Nope, six stays. A boy who is becomming a man needs to learn to be incharge. A ship can't have 2 captains, a household cant have two heads. However, part of being a good captain on a ship is listening to the advice of the XO (2nd in command). Same with a household. A man needs to be in charge, but he better learn to listen to the what the wife has to say before he makes his decision

Are you a bit of a sexist tit-head, cus you really did sound like that when you said that. I'm a 15 year old boy and i don't think that.

Um... I'm 15 (close enough) and I do care about politics, not doorags, as do my friends, who also happen to be 15-year-old girls. So this is a very bad generalization. :headbang:

I agree.

Nope, six stays. A boy who is becomming a man needs to learn to be incharge. A ship can't have 2 captains, a household cant have two heads. However, part of being a good captain on a ship is listening to the advice of the XO (2nd in command). Same with a household. A man needs to be in charge, but he better learn to listen to the what the wife has to say before he makes his decision

I don't think that a man should be in charge, necessarily. My dad thinks he's in charge, but my mom really is the head of the household. So even if you think that's the way it should be, it doesn't mean it is true.....

Nope, six stays. A boy who is becomming a man needs to learn to be incharge. A ship can't have 2 captains, a household cant have two heads. However, part of being a good captain on a ship is listening to the advice of the XO (2nd in command). Same with a household. A man needs to be in charge, but he better learn to listen to the what the wife has to say before he makes his decision
and yet its utterly inappropriate for a 15 year old boy. a kid who needs to dominate his girlfriend is one who will only end up with weak girls of low self esteem.

perhaps when he IS a man and ready to settle down he and his fiance can talk about the implications of "you have the balls you make the rules" and decide if that is OK with both of them.

and yet its utterly inappropriate for a 15 year old boy. a kid who needs to dominate his girlfriend is one who will only end up with weak girls of low self esteem.

perhaps when he IS a man and ready to settle down he and his fiance can talk about the implications of "you have the balls you make the rules" and decide if that is OK with both of them.
We seem to be missing number seven. The point of "you have the balls, you make the rules" and "you have the boobs, you make the rules" is that you don't make the wrong ones, because both of you have damn near equal power over each other.

and yet its utterly inappropriate for a 15 year old boy. a kid who needs to dominate his girlfriend is one who will only end up with weak girls of low self esteem.

perhaps when he IS a man and ready to settle down he and his fiance can talk about the implications of "you have the balls you make the rules" and decide if that is OK with both of them.

I think you are forgetting number 7:know the right rules to make. Doing the foolish thing or the dangerous thing is not the right thing. I am suggesting men need to take charge with #6, but I am reminding them not to over do it with #7

We seem to be missing number seven. The point of "you have the balls, you make the rules" and "you have the boobs, you make the rules" is that you don't make the wrong ones, because both of you have damn near equal power over each other.
actually i think the point of "you have the boobs you make the rules" is to counteract the tendency of women/girls to be dominated by men/boys. we tend to be easily cowed by guys. its a reminder that we can "take our tits and go home". its a reminder that we DO have power and we dont have to submit to anything we dont want to do just to keep a boy. i dont see it as a license to be queen bitch but rather to stand up for ourselves. a girl who makes all the rules is as offensive as a boy who does.

the balls rule is just a silly reflection of that. his natural right to dominate has gone by the wayside. sure he can say "if im paying for the movie i get to choose what one we see" but he cant say "you have to have sex with me" or "you cant see your best friend anymore".

its not a matter of the right rules, its a matter of personal integrity. you make the rules that you need to follow. but you cant make rules for someone else and expect them to follow them without question. your rule can be "no sex before marriage" (a very reasonable rule) but the other person can disagree and walk away. your natural female or male attractions will cause them to think it over carefully before they go that far.