NationStates Jolt Archive

Is AD&D a "real" personality disorder?

All the kids I knew who played it were pretty unpopular, so it must be a personality disorder.

Advanced Dungeons and Dragons? I'd say so. :P

It probably is, but like every medical discovery most of these supposed ADD cases are normal kids that have too much sugar.

Yeah, who wants to deal with THACO?

D&D 3.5 is sooooo they way to go. =)

*sigh*

I am currently reading a D&D book while I surf the forum, and I stumble on this topic.

*remembers fondly calling her girlfriends to cancel a movie night to pull an all nighters with her misfit friends*
Those were the days...

It probably is, but like every medical discovery most of these supposed ADD cases are normal kids that have too much sugar.
read the title of the post carefully...

Yeah, who wants to deal with THACO?

D&D 3.5 is sooooo they way to go. =)
pfeh! 3.5? Second ed hardcore!!!!!!!!1

read the title of the post carefully...

I don't know, it sounds pretty accurate.

read the title of the post carefully...

Damn you and option 4.

Damn you all to hell!!!!

With that note, I always wanted that invisibility cloak.

Is AD&D a "real" personality disorder?

"I want to cast... Magic Missile!"

That quoted, I've never actually played AD&D. I do like to think that my nation is mostly comprised of Rangers, Druids, Monks, and Paladins, though. ;)

Is AD&D a "real" personality disorder?

According to the Israeli Defense Force - yes.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html

Yeah, who wants to deal with THACO?

D&D 3.5 is sooooo they way to go. =)

PAh! Real men play 1st edition or the whitebox edition and spurn such new-fangled developments as THAC0.

According to the Israeli Defense Force - yes.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html

That makes me sad.

PAh! Real men play 1st edition or the whitebox edition and spurn such new-fangled developments as THAC0.

No Hackmaster?

That makes me sad.

Last thing you want in most armies is an independent mind.

Yeth, I finally have a THAC0 of -18! I made thith 80th level fighter-mage-thief-cleric-paladin who can totally kill everything!

DnD is no more or less a personality disorder then any other hobby.

Did you actually mean to type ADD? Cause that would make a lot more sense. If so, my answer is YES IT DOES. I suffer from it, Primarily Inattentive type. And don't try to tell me I "choose" not to apply myself or I "choose" to not do my work and consequently get berated and yelled at by everyone and their dog, because Im sick of hearing it. Id no more choose to be this way then Id choose to be dyslexic.

I do think it's overdiagnosed in America, though, and we don't know half as much about it as we think we do. More often then not it's some other condition entirely, or stupid, ineffectual parents who can't control their children making excuses for their behaviour.

DnD is no more or less a personality disorder then any other hobby.

Did you actually mean to type ADD? Cause that would make a lot more sense. If so, my answer is YES IT DOES. I suffer from it, Primarily Inattentive type. And don't try to tell me I "choose" not to apply myself or I "choose" to not do my work and consequently get berated and yelled at by everyone and their dog, because Im sick of hearing it. Id no more choose to be this way then Id choose to be dyslexic.

I do think it's overdiagnosed in America, though, and we don't know half as much about it as we think we do. More often then not it's some other condition entirely, or stupid, ineffectual parents who can't control their children making excuses for their behaviour.


Someone else did that thread and poll already. I'm just trying to see who actually has it.

PAh! Real men play 1st edition or the whitebox edition and spurn such new-fangled developments as THAC0.

That's ok, I'm not a man at all. =)

Heh. It took me a very long to finally give up DM'ing AD&D for D&D 3.0, and I'm only NOW starting to allow my players to use 3.5. Hmm, wide variety of possible class combos vs. all those prestige classes...which one to choose?

Is it a personality disorder? Well, it might be. At least for us Chaotic types. Our personalities are in a constant state of disOrder.
:eek:

I run a Game Convention in Iowa called Gamicon & I can honestly tell you no it is not a disorder.
I know far too many very successful people who game or have gamed in the past.
Gaming gets the same bad rap as being in band or in theatre in high school.
Thats too bad. it's a fun hobby where you get to interact face to face with others & have fun.

Benefits of gaming:
Helps the young learn to read Charts & Graphs.
Teaches fundementals of statistics
Provides a social outlet to people who would normally hang out in front of a playstation all day.
Improves creative thinking & reasoning
I could go on & on but I think you all get the point.

Vin Diesel plays D&D. I recommend someone telling him he's got a mental disorder.

Vin Diesel plays D&D. I recommend someone telling him he's got a mental disorder.

And he got Dame Judy Dench to play with him! =)

Oh... I've been parodied! :eek: :sniper: ;)

pfeh! 3.5? Second ed hardcore!!!!!!!!1

Raise yer hand -- who remembers D&D (not AD&D) when it came with a sheet of punch-out *chits*, and not dice?

Raise yer hand, ya old farts -- who *owned* that edition?


Simon -- who still has a mint copy of B2:Keep on the Borderlands

<snicker>

Raise yer hand -- who remembers D&D (not AD&D) when it came with a sheet of punch-out *chits*, and not dice?

Raise yer hand, ya old farts -- who *owned* that edition?


Simon -- who still has a mint copy of B2:Keep on the Borderlands

<snicker>
Guilty as charged.
Although a good friend of mine can go a step further & has a first edition where Halflings are actually called Hobbits

For those of you who remember 1st and 2nd edition stuff, the group I play in recently went through an updated (to 3.0) version of The Temple of Elemental Evil. Every now and then, our GM would read out the 1st-ed. stuff still listed in there like "The doors can be removed and have a 30GP encumbrance" or "the bugbears speak Evil".

It is a mental illness when you spend time debating which version is better. You guys are just too cheap for the new stuff. Feats rock

It is a mental illness when you spend time debating which version is better. You guys are just too cheap for the new stuff. Feats rock

Yar!

It is a mental illness when you spend time debating which version is better. You guys are just too cheap for the new stuff. Feats rock
But prestige class blows.

But prestige class blows.

Many of them do. They're either useless, or horribly overpowered. I haven't actually bothered with any of them yet.

But prestige class blows.

Most of them do, yeah. But there are a few gems.

Like Chocolate Goddess, i use to pull all nighters to play AD&D. I was there when they went through the first major overhaul and whatnot (you know, when they eliminated the assassin character class).

Back then, my DM and i weren't considered "obsessed" so much as into devilry or something. I'd reply with AD&D was not just an outlet but was a way to further my imagination. Plus, i really didn't start reading real books until i got into Forgotten Realm books.

I don't think AD&D is a "disorder" or "disease" but if someone is totally obsessed with it...then there is probably an underlying issue that needs to be addressed.

But if this thread was all done in fun and not to be taken seriously, then change my poll response from "no" to "can i join your campaign"

Long Live Drizzit Do'Urden

Is AD&D a "real" personality disorder?

Maybe that premasticated pap put out by Wizards of The Coast. (D20 is EVIL!!!)

Then again, if AD&D is a personality disorder, does that make SCA a full-blown Psychosis?

Raise yer hand -- who remembers D&D (not AD&D) when it came with a sheet of punch-out *chits*, and not dice?

Raise yer hand, ya old farts -- who *owned* that edition?


Simon -- who still has a mint copy of B2:Keep on the Borderlands

<snicker>

EEERP!! When 'Elf' was a Class...

i've played AD&D, D&D 3.0, and 3.5
some things in all of them i like and do not like, but what rally matters is if you have a good group of players and especially a good DM. fortunatly for me for the last few years i have(until he joined the marines) he has literlally read every single D&D book published and can make some twisted fun games, but in the end it is just a game. play what version you will. :fluffle:

Raise yer hand -- who remembers D&D (not AD&D) when it came with a sheet of punch-out *chits*, and not dice?

Raise yer hand, ya old farts -- who *owned* that edition?


Simon -- who still has a mint copy of B2:Keep on the Borderlands

<snicker>
Guilty as charged. My copy of B2 and B4 are both beat to hell.

That was good stuff. The new edition is so overcompilcated and overpower it is no fun to play. And to think they made a third edition to "simplify" and "streamline" the game.

The "saddness" or "nerdyness" (as it's technically known) of any role playing game is well known (and scientifically proven) to be inversely proportional to the quanity of beer available to players.
Or to put it simply. More beer = better game.
It's also fun to find your team mage has fallen asleep in a pool of drool at a critical moment or that the DM can't count to more than ten without borrowing fingers.
Ah, happy memories!

I've seen the rulebooks. You had to be deranged to understand Thaco. That's all I have to say.

I've seen the rulebooks. You had to be deranged to understand Thaco. That's all I have to say.

*is deranged*

Third Edition did away with THAC0

*is deranged*

Third Edition did away with THAC0

Thank god. That was the single most intimidating feature of AD&D for new players.

Yeah, I know. I play 3rd ed. But AD&D was the one with the Thac0.

For those of you who remember 1st and 2nd edition stuff, the group I play in recently went through an updated (to 3.0) version of The Temple of Elemental Evil. Every now and then, our GM would read out the 1st-ed. stuff still listed in there like "The doors can be removed and have a 30GP encumbrance" or "the bugbears speak Evil".

Chaotic, surely?


EDIT: hands up if you understand why the joke 'one day we will have coffee and T2' is funny.

PAh! Real men play 1st edition or the whitebox edition and spurn such new-fangled developments as THAC0.

Yay Eldritch Wizardry.

AD&D as a personality disorder? Only if you were like the guy in this one.

http://gprime.net/video.php/magicmissile

SPOILERS

"I live in a world of dungeons too. The one which we're taking you to is called the county jail"

Ah, video & computer games. So addictive they make cocain and heroin look like Tylenol. You'd step over your own mother just for one more go. AD&D is a top-tier gaming addiction. It might not be a personality disorder but it sure does get way too REAL sometimes!

It might not be a personality disorder but it sure does get way too REAL sometimes!

Yes, but what a valuable learning experience it can be. A sphere of annihilation is not the answer to all of life's little problems.

All you option 4ers, drop by irc.darkmyst.org #archipelago_ooc (my DnD 3.5-based RP channel)

[/spam]

Chaotic, surely?

No, these were evil bugbears. =)

EDIT: hands up if you understand why the joke 'one day we will have coffee and T2' is funny.

=( Must be before my time.

It exists but it is horribly overdiagnosed. Also, the symptoms of many psychological "disorders" are often very similar during childhood. What seems like ADD at age 5 could be discovered to really be Autism at 13.

Roleplaying worries me.

Don't get me wrong, I love it. And I was right there saying "What are you on about, it's nuts to say there is anything bad about it, it's just an imaginative hobby"

I think there's something more going on. It's an imaginative hobby, it's a nice, fun social activity. It often incorporates problem solving. All brilliant.

But, here's a nice extra point, and what makes it so fun for some people.
It lets you pretend to be someone else.

Not everyone takes advantage of that, not everyone wants to. Not everyone has the right sort of gaming group to get the "right" sort of advantage.

And, it's not always a bad thing. I like pretending to be someone different to me. I'm usually playing a few games, and my characters tend to be very different to each other.

But, hey, we all know what it's like to really identify with a character? To go "I really love this character"? To look forward to getting to play the character (or as some players in my group say, "I get to be X tonight". I know it's joking).
And, that's not always bad. A certain amount of identity exploration can be good for you, and if you're not entirely happy with your own identity (I want to be a rock star!) you get to play it out, and get some of the feelings, by playing that character in the game.

But, I've also seen arguments over the games. I've seen people genuinely upset when their character gets insulted. I've had more arguments with my girlfriend over roleplaying issues than most anything else. She identifies really strongly with her characters, and loves getting to play them. So she gets upset when she doesn't get to play, or something makes the game not-fun for her.

Perhaps the problem is that it's just "too fun", or that it's sometimes fun, but not always. But I really do think identities are important to us as humans, and a game that lets you explore different identities is special in some way. Not all of which is good. For people that are having relationship problems, it can be really important to take a step back, and realize that it is, after all, just a game. And not worth damaging actual relationships over.

ah, rant over. I really do love roleplaying, especially the white wolf exalted series. It's just great. And the good points, for me and my friends, definately outweight the bad points.

Obviously your mileage may vary, depending on the type of games you play and your group.

It exists but it is horribly overdiagnosed. Also, the symptoms of many psychological "disorders" are often very similar during childhood. What seems like ADD at age 5 could be discovered to really be Autism at 13.
And this is MY personal bugbear.

I have ADD. I really struggled through school. Now everyone I talk to seems to have ADD. Sheesh.
At the risk of doing the worst possible thing, I can't help but think "No, you don't have ADD, you're just lazy or don't concentrate".
Everyone seems to be dyslexic these days, too.
I'm dyslexic, and how often do I make spelling mistakes? I have a dyslexic friend who *can't* spell properly, despite his efforts. There are certain patterns of mistakes that dyslexic people make (at least the types of dyslexia that I'm familiar with), and more often than not, it just seems like they can't be bothered putting in the effort to spell properly. Or aren't smart enough.

Gah, just so sick of people glibly saying how they have all these problems. It seems disrespectful to the people who have serious issues, and struggled through them. I'm lucky, I have little to no negative effects from any of my problems, although I really did have to work hard to get through them while I was younger. My parents get a huge amount of the credit for forcing/helping me through it too.

But still, I now say "I have ADD. Sure. I see it as an advantage, not a disadvantage. It made some things harder, but others easier."
I say "Yeah, I'm dyslexic actually, but that just made me pay attention to my spelling more. I'm over it."

stupid overdiagnosing doctors, don't they know pills won't solve everything? Or labelling people won't fix their behaviour.

And this is MY personal bugbear.

I have ADD. I really struggled through school. Now everyone I talk to seems to have ADD. Sheesh.
At the risk of doing the worst possible thing, I can't help but think "No, you don't have ADD, you're just lazy or don't concentrate".
Everyone seems to be dyslexic these days, too.
I'm dyslexic, and how often do I make spelling mistakes? I have a dyslexic friend who *can't* spell properly, despite his efforts. There are certain patterns of mistakes that dyslexic people make (at least the types of dyslexia that I'm familiar with), and more often than not, it just seems like they can't be bothered putting in the effort to spell properly. Or aren't smart enough.

Gah, just so sick of people glibly saying how they have all these problems. It seems disrespectful to the people who have serious issues, and struggled through them. I'm lucky, I have little to no negative effects from any of my problems, although I really did have to work hard to get through them while I was younger. My parents get a huge amount of the credit for forcing/helping me through it too.

But still, I now say "I have ADD. Sure. I see it as an advantage, not a disadvantage. It made some things harder, but others easier."
I say "Yeah, I'm dyslexic actually, but that just made me pay attention to my spelling more. I'm over it."

stupid overdiagnosing doctors, don't they know pills won't solve everything? Or labelling people won't fix their behaviour.

I could make a joke about you being dislexic and this being a thread about AD&D not ADD but I'm not that much of a prick. Instead, can I ask a serious question?

What is ADD that seperates you from those who are just lazy and don't concentrate. What seperates you from those who are cases of doctors who are too eager to diagnose everyone as ADD. Why weren't you able to just control it at your will? What's it like, is basically what I am asking.

I could make a joke about you being dislexic and this being a thread about AD&D not ADD but I'm not that much of a prick. Instead, can I ask a serious question?

What is ADD that seperates you from those who are just lazy and don't concentrate. What seperates you from those who are cases of doctors who are too eager to diagnose everyone as ADD. Why weren't you able to just control it at your will? What's it like, is basically what I am asking.

Extremely good question, and unfortunately I don't have all the answers. The main reason is because when I was going through therapy for ADD I was very young, so I only got the laymans description.

Heh, I wasn't the person that brought up ADD, but please, make jokes such as that as much as you want. I certainly do. While my spelling is fine (since I take care, and have trained it), I often make dyslexic mistakes while reading. Or even just ignore words. I make mistakes like that all the time, often with them turning out quite amusing.
See, the interesting thing is, I don't read by looking at each individual letter (nobody does, really), I read by glancing at the sentance as a whole. And I make the usual dyslexic mistake of shuffling letters in my mind, but since most of the time that doesn't make sense, I semi-automatically re-read it properly. So I usually only make mistakes when my brain can mistakenly shuffle the words into another form that still make sense (kinda). Which means when I misread, I often get something sensible-sounding. Which usually doesn't make sense as part of the paragraph. Which is often very funny, to my mind at least.
There was a comic with the words:

Dyslexics untie!

Took me a while to work out why that was funny. It's my favourite comic.

Anyway, that's dyslexia, not ADD. ADD "sufferers" often have dyslexia.

OK, what seperates ADD people from just lazy people? Firstly, people with ADD have their brain work in a different way. Not better or worse, just different. People, generally, think the same way. If you get a relatively simple problem, and give it to a lot of people, most will come up with the same solution. ADD people think slightly differently, and, depending on the problem, are likely to come up with a different solution. (interestingly enough, if everyone has ADD, they are likely to all come up with the same "different" solution). So, not better or worse.
The upshot of this is that most of the problems that "normal" people can solve easily have already been solved. The problems that ADD people can solve easily, but normal people can't, are less likely to have been solved, since there are less of us.
Which is why many people believe that Leonardo Davinci, Gallileo etc. had ADD. Nobody pays attention to the people who do equally amazing things, because it is "just obvious" since that's how their brains work.

Another aspect of ADD (which stands for Attention Deficit Disorder last time I heard, but seems to be renamed every so often) is the...deficit disorder. I see, hear, taste just as well as you or anyone else. I don't have any problems with that. I do, however, have a problem processing all the incoming information from my senses, my brain tends to block some of it out. I still see perfectly fine, hear perfectly fine, all that. But, here's an example, if I'm driving, and a friend on the side of the road waves to me, I won't see them, at all. I'm paying attention to what is happening, I know they are there, I won't run them over, and if they step into the road, I'll stop. But my brain isn't processing enough to notice that they are my friend, or that they are waving to me.
I'll keep doing stupid things, just from not noticing. I'll happily walk into my bedroom, wander around, do some things, wander out. And my girlfriend will say "I took the sheets off the bed, you need to make it before going to sleep". I won't have realized that the sheets were removed. Even though it's completely obvious when I go back. Yeah, it makes me feel stupid quite often. Still, it's not a particularly big problem, my eyes still work. If there was a ninja sitting in the room, I'd see him (or maybe not, since ninjas can turn invisible!). I just don't notice things that seem unimportant.

Now, along with not getting quite as much sensory information, we have this other issue, that a lot of ADD people don't even know about. Our brains still want to receive a normal amount of information. This is why a lot of ADD people have trouble concentrating, for me it's like...I get bored easily, and want to do something interesting. I have trouble concentrating. If I *force* myself to concentrate, my mind wanders (and it's not always easy to notice when that happens), and I start thinking of something else. I don't know if it's an ADD trait or not, but I have absolutely no ability to multitask, if my mind wanders, I will have no idea whatsoever what the conversation is about. My eyes will keep reading down a page in a book, I'll turn the page, and while I'm thinking about the other topic, I won't know what happened. I'll turn my attention back to the book, and not know what happened for the last few pages. I'll re-read those pages, and it will be entirely new. I literally had not read them before.
This is the difference between someone with ADD and someone lazy who just isn't concentrating. I can actually be genuinely concentrating on something, putting effort into it, and still have my mind go off on a tangent. I cannot force my mind to stay on the topic. It says "I want more input", and so it goes off to think about something that is more "interesting" to it. Or makes me do something that gives it more input (like misbehaving in class? I don't know, I never had much of a hyperactive compotent, but I think that's caused for the same reason).
When I'm alone, I'll do things like rap my knuckles against a wooden table as I walk past, like I'm knocking on it. It gives a slightly stronger sensation to my brain. Or run my fingers up and down my leg, or keep rubbing the stubble on my chin. These are all other tricks to get more sensation to my brain, and don't happen nearly as often when I'm talking to people, or doing something that provides lots of sensations (like playing a computer game, or watching a movie). It happens a lot when I'm doing something that doesn't cause many sensations, like reading a book.
Oh, and I know I'm saying things like "my brain makes me do this", it doesn't really work like that. Obviously, my brain is me, there aren't two different people here. When I rap my knuckles against something, it's more an absent minded sort of thing, like tapping a pen against the table, that I do without thinking. It was only later that I learnt what it was. And, yes, it happens with non-add people too. Just not as often.

can I control it with my will? Yes and no. To an extent, I can go "I've got to learn this work" and just keep at it until I learn the work. Does that mean I don't get distracted? No. Does it mean I'll just have to put in more time, and keep getting back to the work each time I get distracted? Yes.
More importantly, instead of learning to "control it with my will" I've learnt to accept who and what I am. As I said, I don't think it's a disadvantage. It just means I'm different. I've learnt that it's mostly a waste of time for me to learn work by reading books. I skim through the book. I find something interesting. I get a friend also studying the topic, and I start a discussion with them. Wherever possible, I learn by doing. I'm a programmer, I couldn't learn by reading books. I could learn by writing some code, getting stuck, and looking it up in the book. I couldn't learn mathematics, because I couldn't *do* anything with it. At least, nothing that was meaningful to me. (I also have mental retardation in mathematics, which makes it harder).

There are lots of things I have more trouble doing because of ADD. But there are some things that I'm just brilliant at (not trying to be vain) - I have very good spacial perception (a lot of ADD people do), very good sense of causality, cause and effect, my logic is extremely good. I believe that having ADD helps me as a programmer. It means I can never remember what the command names are, but who cares? I can look that up in ten seconds, using the internet, or built in tools. Trivial. I can't look up how to structure my program.

Also, most of the negative effects of ADD do wear off after time (do they actually wear off, or do we just get better are finding other ways around them?) By the time I was 20 I really didn't have any problems because of my ADD. Except for the not noticing things, really. That seems to be permanant, just like the fact that my girlfriend teases me about it permanantly.

I know that this post makes me seem like I have a ton of mental problems (and I did have some pretty severe learning problems at school), I'd like to say that I don't consider myself to have any problems. I was blessed with natural intelligence (again, not trying to be vain, just recognizing that I was lucky!), which did help me through some of the tougher times (when I really did genuinely believe I was a stupid, hopelessly dumb person. I could only imagine if I was born average or stupid!). I have mathematical retardation, for me that means that I have a state-average mathematical IQ, since the rest of my intelligence is well above average. I've been through university, and yes, I even passed university math classes! I'm very proud of that, even if I did fail four times. Funny how I'm most proud of the class I was worst at and hated the most.

I guess to sum this up...
ADD is real, it makes your brain work in a different way.
It makes some things harder. This is a problem because, since everyone else can do them relatively easily, it looks really bad. School won't stop making you memorize dates in history class just because you have ADD. Because people are used to what sort of topics are hard and easy to them, and most other people, it seems like you are stupid in some areas. This can be very difficult until you learn to deal with it.
It makes some things easier. When you learn your strengths, you will be a much happier person. I've learnt what I'm good at, and all in all, I'm happy with how I am, including my ADD.
It makes you do some things that may seem weird to other people. These usually happen when I'm alone, but I can't speak for other people. Again, nothing good or bad, just different.
It is NOT an excuse to not work, or to say that you can't do something. I passed university math. I can spell fine. Even if I couldn't do either of those things, I could damn well try. And, when I say "I'm bad at maths" I mean that "I" am bad at maths. Not "My ADD stops me doing maths". It's part of who I am. When I get bored and don't pay attention, there is nobody to blame but myself. Even if the reason I'm not paying attention is my ADD, that just means I need to find some other way of learning my work.

*bows* ok, I'm all finished. Happy to answer any questions.

This is all just from my own personal experience, I know there are different flavours out there, so other people may experience something different.

Is AD&D a "real" personality disorder?
Say what??? Since when has AD&D been called a "personality disorder?" :confused:

in addition...

...I used to have tablets to help my ADD. Especially my memory, it was really terrible when I was at school (which didn't help none. Forgetting to do homework, or what you were taught that day isn't fun. And people assume you're just lazy/not paying attention)
Funnily enough, I stopped taking the tablets because I kept forgetting to take them. Yep, I can laugh about it now :)

Most medication for people with ADD is an amphedamine, same as drugs like speed (although swallowed as a tablet, and in relatively small doses, so you don't get a high, or get addicted). And, like speed, it makes you "see everything" and get an overload of input. Which, for people with ADD who aren't getting enough input, should set it just right.

Which is why once you have your tablets you can concentrate again, and stop misbehaving. Your brain isn't trying to get the extra stimulus that it's missing.

but..hey...maybe I'm weird. I don't like the idea of giving amphedamines to kids just because they are misbehaving, unless there's a genuine chemical reason for it. One of the reasons I have a problem with overdiagnosing people with ADD.

Say what??? Since when has AD&D been called a "personality disorder?" :confused:
Don't you pay attention to what religious nutbars are saying?

I had a friend sent out of his classroom because the religious nut teaching him saw his AD&D book. It had a picture of a werewolf on the cover. Werewolves aren't natural creatures, therefore aren't creatures of god, therefore are evil. Therefore, he shouldn't have that book.

Bad, bad child!

Heh, religious nuts amuse me. (no disrespect to sensible religious people!)
I just wish they didn't get so much media or political attention, and people didn't take them so seriously.

Extremely good question, and unfortunately I don't have all the answers. The main reason is because when I was going through therapy for ADD I was very young, so I only got the laymans description.

See, the interesting thing is, I don't read by looking at each individual letter (nobody does, really), I read by glancing at the sentance as a whole. And I make the usual dyslexic mistake of shuffling letters in my mind, but since most of the time that doesn't make sense, I semi-automatically re-read it properly. So I usually only make mistakes when my brain can mistakenly shuffle the words into another form that still make sense (kinda). Which means when I misread, I often get something sensible-sounding. Which usually doesn't make sense as part of the paragraph. Which is often very funny, to my mind at least.

OK, what seperates ADD people from just lazy people? Firstly, people with ADD have their brain work in a different way. Not better or worse, just different. People, generally, think the same way. If you get a relatively simple problem, and give it to a lot of people, most will come up with the same solution. ADD people think slightly differently, and, depending on the problem, are likely to come up with a different solution.

The upshot of this is that most of the problems that "normal" people can solve easily have already been solved. The problems that ADD people can solve easily, but normal people can't, are less likely to have been solved, since there are less of us.

I don't have any problems with that. I do, however, have a problem processing all the incoming information from my senses, my brain tends to block some of it out. I still see perfectly fine, hear perfectly fine, all that. But, here's an example, if I'm driving, and a friend on the side of the road waves to me, I won't see them, at all. I'm paying attention to what is happening, I know they are there, I won't run them over, and if they step into the road, I'll stop. But my brain isn't processing enough to notice that they are my friend, or that they are waving to me.

I'll keep doing stupid things, just from not noticing. I'll happily walk into my bedroom, wander around, do some things, wander out. And my girlfriend will say "I took the sheets off the bed, you need to make it before going to sleep". I won't have realized that the sheets were removed. Even though it's completely obvious when I go back. Yeah, it makes me feel stupid quite often. Still, it's not a particularly big problem, my eyes still work. If there was a ninja sitting in the room, I'd see him (or maybe not, since ninjas can turn invisible!). I just don't notice things that seem unimportant.

Now, along with not getting quite as much sensory information, we have this other issue, that a lot of ADD people don't even know about. Our brains still want to receive a normal amount of information. This is why a lot of ADD people have trouble concentrating, for me it's like...I get bored easily, and want to do something interesting. I have trouble concentrating. If I *force* myself to concentrate, my mind wanders (and it's not always easy to notice when that happens), and I start thinking of something else. I don't know if it's an ADD trait or not, but I have absolutely no ability to multitask, if my mind wanders, I will have no idea whatsoever what the conversation is about. My eyes will keep reading down a page in a book, I'll turn the page, and while I'm thinking about the other topic, I won't know what happened. I'll turn my attention back to the book, and not know what happened for the last few pages. I'll re-read those pages, and it will be entirely new. I literally had not read them before.
Dude! You just described me the way I've been ever since I can remember!

There was no such thing as "ADD" when I was growing up. People just told me that either I was lazy or just couldn't concentrate very well. Most of it seemed to fade a bit as I got older, but I still get accused of being "absent minded" now.

Dude! You just described me the way I've been ever since I can remember!

There was no such thing as "ADD" when I was growing up. People just told me that either I was lazy or just couldn't concentrate very well. Most of it seemed to fade a bit as I got older, but I still get accused of being "absent minded" now.
Absent minded is my watchword! *shrug* yeah, it doesn't seem to have faded as much as the rest for me either. I've just learnt to put things I need to take with me in the doorway, things like that. Doesn't always work in every situation (I can't remember to stop for bread on the way home. ever.)

I find with the absent-minded thing, I'm most absent minded when I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing. If someone asks me to do something (and I hear and pay attention to what they are asking), if I stop what I'm doing, turn to them seriously, say "Yes, I'll get that done" I'm much more likely to remember. Something to break up what I'm doing, so I pay complete attention to remembering this. Writing down what I have to do also helps (even if I don't look at the note). Doesnt' work every time (see above about bread), but it does help. Hopefully it'll help for you :)

Pity, it really helped me knowing that I had ADD. Knowing that if something just doesn't work for me, I should try other methods. I think it's great that ADD is now a recognized disorder, I just wish it wasn't so overused.

Earths Orbit, thanks for that. That was a really good and informative read. It educated me a lot about the disorder and certainly put things into a different perspective for me [I've been very skeptical about ADD in the past]. I agree with you that it certainly is over-diagnosed [which is probably what caused my negative attitude towards it, it seemed like every child who didn't behave perfectly must have ADD]. You seem to have a good attitude towards it as well, taking it in your stride. Good stuff man.

Yeah, anyone still playing that is pathetic. Upgrade, fools! Upgrade! 3.5!!!

<bored tone>Pshaw, seriously, playing D&D at all? Move on, people.</bored tone>

In all seriousness, I don't play any D&D anymore, I find White Wolf's exalted much more to my style.
Still fantasy, set in a fantasy world (although not a D&D lord-of-the-rings style world)
It's very epic, where the main characters can fight hoardes of enemies single handedly (oh, like 20th level fighters can't already do that!), but at least there is an explanation for why characters can do that (they are exalted, a type of magical being)

I find the white wolf system is much more flexible when making different character types, I can represent a lot more of what I want from my character with the game mechanics. Well worth a look, even if you were turned off by the "mature" vampire and werewolf games.

Is AD&D a "real" personality disorder?
No. It's not classified as a Personality Disorder, it's classified as a Childhood disorder. Personality disorders are totally different.

The following is from http://www.psychologynet.org/dsm

Antisocial Personality Disorder (impulsive, aggressive, manipulative)
Avoidant Personality Disorder (shy, timid, "inferiority complex")
Borderline Personality Disorder (impulsive, self-destructive, unstable)
Dependent Personality Disorder (dependent, submissive, clinging)
Histrionic Personality Disorder (emotional, dramatic, theatrical)
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (boastful, egotistical, "superiority complex")
Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (perfectionistic, rigid, controlling)
Paranoid Personality Disorder (suspicious, distrustful)
Schizoid Personality Disorder (socially distant, detached)
Schizotypal Personality Disorder (odd, eccentric)

As far as the research on dopamine secretions and behaviour go, I would suspect that ADD/ADHD has more of a physiological basis. The acquisition of personality disorders like the ones mentioned above may be influenced by extremes in the environment during early childhood, and those influences may exacerbate inherent organic differences, but they may also be curbed and redirected in a secure and loving environment. To put it simply, I believe there is more Nature at play in ADD/ADHD, and more Nurture at play in Personality Disorder. That being said, I know ADD/ADHD individuals who far exceed the average person's capacity for receptiveness to stimuli, and who, when they are offered educational opportunities that cater to their wandering train of thought, demonstrate their intellect in a refreshing way. You might want to read some Oliver Sacks, as he has some very inspiring stories of people who appreciate their neurological differences, and flourish as a result.

snip

You may want to take a closer look at the title of the thread. :D

Originally Posted by PsychologyNet
First Person Shooter (impulsive, aggressive, manipulative)
Puzzle Gamer (shy, timid, "inferiority complex")
Strategy Gamer (impulsive, self-destructive, unstable)
2D Platformer (dependent, submissive, clinging)
RPGers (emotional, dramatic, theatrical)
Arcade Gamer (boastful, egotistical, "superiority complex")
The Sims Player (perfectionistic, rigid, controlling)
Edutainment Users (suspicious, distrustful)
Retro Gamers (socially distant, detached)
Text Adventurers (odd, eccentric)


FIXED :)

All the kids I knew who played it were pretty unpopular, so it must be a personality disorder.

Oddly enough, my students (who are NOT AFRAID to let me know anything re: fashion faux pas, how boring the work is, and what they think of my taste in movies) tell me that the fact that I like Sci-Fi and RP is cool.

My god, what a change from when I was in high school! ;)

Where's my rapier? ;)

Strategy Gamer (impulsive, self-destructive, unstable)
RPGers (emotional, dramatic, theatrical)

Guilty of both :p
Now where's that bomb?

Hmm... wonder if having ADD improves your save vs spell rolls, charm, chaos etc.

You may want to take a closer look at the title of the thread. :D
Oh. Err. Pissflaps.
/gets hat and coat

Hmm... wonder if having ADD improves your save vs spell rolls, charm, chaos etc.
Increases save vs fascination
Increases save vs chaos
Decreases save vs distraction (coloured lights?)
and definately increases your spot difficulty

I'm getting a d20 tattoo on my heel this year, building four story to scale (5ft to 1 in) castle, and my friends have convinced me to change one of our spare rooms into a gaming room. We're going to paint different terrains on the walls. We might be extreme but we're not sick.

But it doesn't interfer with our lives - though we do all nighters all the time - I still have two jobs and just graduated from college on the dean's list while working on home improvements and getting married.

EDIT: 2nd Editon (with tweeking... I really don't see what's so difficult to understand about THACO)

EDIT: 2nd Editon (with tweeking... I really don't see what's so difficult to understand about THACO)

Someone remind me here: did THAC0 still have the rule about natural 20s being able to hit the next five better armour classes or so, or did that die out with 1st edition?

AD&D is m ost definatly a disorder. They really messed up when they started having different races.

Elf should be a Class, goshdarn it!

According to the Israeli Defense Force - yes.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html

This is incredibly amusing.

I'm busy trying to figure out how to change a bunch of my 2nd Edition characters into 3rd Edition. I'm quite attached to some of them.

I'm busy trying to figure out how to change a bunch of my 2nd Edition characters into 3rd Edition. I'm quite attached to some of them.
See official WotC website - there are free, downloadable rules of how to convert your character.

See official WotC website - there are free, downloadable rules of how to convert your character.Thanks. :fluffle:

No

And popularity isn't really a measurement for a disease.

One could also ask... are FPS players mass murderers? If you follow certain newspapers in Germany... yes... we are.

Some people do have handicapping attention problems that are solved through medication. But even then, I'm not sure that they don't lose more than they gain.

However, AD&D is quite largely a fabrication. To quote the Jargon (http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/weaknesses.html) file: "These syndromes are over-diagnosed and over-treated. After all, people in authority will always be inconvenienced by schoolchildren or workers or citizens who are prickly, intelligent individualists - thus, any social system that depends on authority relationships will tend to helpfully ostracize and therapize and drug such `abnormal' people until they are properly docile and stupid and `well-socialized. "