NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I believe I figured it all out. I know that some will agree, some will disagree, and some will just talk shit and belittle me. BUT I am happy to hear it all ,because it only supports my epiphany! I was reading through the forums and suddenly it hit me. Oppostion is a natural occurance ! It will never go away! If you have an idea, there will always be those that hate it. There will ALWAYS be naysayers, and there will always(most of the time) be supporters. Its not how we voice our opinions. Its not how we react to others. It is whether or not we accept that different opinions don't constitute different values or ideals. It only matters that we are good people, not what country we are from, or what political party we belong to. I think that being part of a party is just a way of feeling like we have a voice, but in reality, its just a way to lose our voice in the roar of a crowd. Any thoughts?


P.S. I'm a right leaning centrist, if anyone is wondering.

No, that's wrong.

Honey, I think we've known that for a while. :)

Theres proof! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <!----Runs back to the lab and hooks up the electrodes---->

This is why seperatist groups like the Green Party form.

And they become exactly what they oppose so fast it's hilarious.

Honey, I think we've known that for a while. :)
I'm a little slow, but I'm still proud of my epiphany! :)
(ny the way, thanks for callin me honey! It makes me feel cute)

Oppostion is a natural occurance ! It will never go away!


Actually wrong... Opposition can be removed, there are ways to do so. Camps, firing squads, whatever, you name it.

No, that's wrong.

ha ha ha

Right,

I don't think anyone would disagree if I said that your epiphany is not original. There's some opposition for ya'. But what you said in the end was kind of nice. It doesn't necessarily matter what our views are so much as we stay good to each other. I don't mean to sound too hippy, but I really started this nation states thing so I could make something humorous and incorporate my name into it. Sorry, the politics really are secondary (but then, I'm a worthless English major who smokes pot, so maybe that says something). In all cases, it'd be nice if people would realize that being good to each other matters a lot more than who wins the presidency. Sure, you may end up giving control of a country with infinite killing power to some childish, egomaniacal illigitimate coke-head (not referring to anyone specifically), but as long as we can stay humane, we'll survive. This is one of the reasons (did I mention I'm NOT a hippy) that outlawing marijuana is so ridiculous. Smoking marijuana doesn't harm anyone else (it doesn't support terrorism either, you propaganda-toting Republicans) and rarely even harms the user. As long as we aren't negatively influencing one another, life is good. Keep that in mind, especially if you live outside of America. Then remember to laugh at me the next time we bomb you or use you to make money or displace national debt. We HEART you.

I apologize for the length. Hopefully, someone will make fun of me or call me cute. :mp5:

Right,

Sorry, the politics really are secondary (but then, I'm a worthless English major who smokes pot, so maybe that says something).
:




Sure, you may end up giving control of a country with infinite killing power to some childish, egomaniacal illigitimate coke-head (not referring to anyone specifically), but as long as we can stay humane, we'll survive. This is one of the reasons (did I mention I'm NOT a hippy) that outlawing marijuana is so ridiculous. Smoking marijuana doesn't harm anyone else (it doesn't support terrorism either, you propaganda-toting Republicans) and rarely even harms the user. :mp5:


UUHHMMMMM.......... You said politics are secondary? Damn, I'd hate to see your primary targets! lol

yeah, I realize that sounds contradictory. But you should understand that there are a lot of stupid people who don't like our president, and even some smart people who are uninformed regarding politics. Even puff daddy can tell you he hates Bush. That doesn't mean he knows dick about politics.

You know you are absolutely right. All in all anyways. In a way who cares who is elected president. Does that mean just because some republican or democrat or whatever the party maybe is elected that it forces me to live my life differently. NO!!! I still wake up get dressed and go about my day the same exact way. But that doesn't mean that I don't have views and opinions. I still express my views and opinions everyday. And sometimes to much for some people. You may be totally for whoever is voted but I bet if you really look at that person hard enough, you will find something that you may not like about him or her. I think that it is everyones views and opinions together that makes this country the best.

Alright captain obvious. 'Nuff said.

No, that's wrong.
roflmao, that was brilliant :D

roflmao, that was brilliant :D

No, THAT was brilliant. :gundge:

Aw, I love that post-epiphany buzz! I recently had an epiphany about comprehensional boundaries in an infinite universe, so I know the feeling. Metanoia is my word of the week. Yay for metanoia.

Actually wrong... Opposition can be removed, there are ways to do so. Camps, firing squads, whatever, you name it.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm oppression. *profuse salivation*

Well, I believe I figured it all out. I know that some will agree, some will disagree, and some will just talk shit and belittle me. BUT I am happy to hear it all ,because it only supports my epiphany! I was reading through the forums and suddenly it hit me. Oppostion is a natural occurance ! It will never go away! If you have an idea, there will always be those that hate it. There will ALWAYS be naysayers, and there will always(most of the time) be supporters. Its not how we voice our opinions. Its not how we react to others. It is whether or not we accept that different opinions don't constitute different values or ideals. It only matters that we are good people, not what country we are from, or what political party we belong to. I think that being part of a party is just a way of feeling like we have a voice, but in reality, its just a way to lose our voice in the roar of a crowd. Any thoughts?

P.S. I'm a right leaning centrist, if anyone is wondering.
Opposition is not only "natural," it's vitally necessary. No one person or group of people is perfect and it's often very difficult to see the flaws in our own thinking, especially if it's something about which we are enthusiastic. The great value in opposition is in calling us to account and keeping us honest.

Aw, I love that post-epiphany buzz! I recently had an epiphany about comprehensional boundaries in an infinite universe, so I know the feeling. Metanoia is my word of the week. Yay for metanoia.
Metanoia Definition: From the Greek 'meta,' 'beyond,' and 'nous,' 'mind.' Refers to a revelatory or illuminating spiritual experience that cannot be described. Biblically, it has been interpreted as repentance.

Oppostion is a natural occurance !

Sorry to sound demeaning, but you need a "Duh!!" option on the poll.

I already said duh once. Get your stuff together, dawg. And then go f--k yourself.

cordially,
Adolf Jesus Hitler

I already said duh once. Get your stuff together, dawg. And then go f--k yourself.

cordially,
Adolf Jesus Hitler

Why censor the letters U & C? saying 'fuck' is permitted here. Telling other players to 'go f--k' themselves isn't.

This is why seperatist groups like the Green Party form.

And they become exactly what they oppose so fast it's hilarious.


Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster

- The Nietzsch.

"Duh."

Of course there will always be opposition. I don't remember who it was who said something like "It's the most obvious ideas which are the most violently opposed." There will always be naysayers and there will always be yes people.

However, that doesn't mean that "It only matters that we are good people, not what country we are from, or what political party we belong to." On the contrary, the fact that people have all sorts of opinions shouldn't lead you to believe that all opinions are equivalent (this is called relativism, and it's evil), but on the contrary, to try harder to find what is right and wrong. The fact that there are always people to believe in an opinion doesn't mean that all opinions are the same, it just means that what people think doesn't matter. Except when they're smarter than you and/or are one of those Dead White Men you hear about.

The other extreme to relativism is fanatism, believing that your opinion is superior to all others for no good reason. The key to maintain a balance between those two evil extremes is, when confronted with an alien point of view, to not address it from your perspective but from the other person's. Try and see what they mean when they argue something, and why they say it. When you find an objection, don't assume that the other is an idiot (unless they are). Consider the possibility that the other person may have already taken this objection into account, and may actually have an answer for it.

Once you gain skills at this way to look at life and ideas, you will find that your mind has been greatly expanded. But then you'll realise how narrow-minded your fellow human beings can be, and you'll wonder if it really was worth the trouble.

:confused: This whole thread is wank. The "epiphany" is just saying that people have different opinions, and that it's nice when people are nice. Which is obvious.

The green party is about certain political stances (notably environmentalism), and always has been. It has not become anything it opposed.

If Venus Mound can give me one good reason why relativism is either evil or false, then they will be my hero. What makes any opinion good, then?

:confused: This whole thread is wank. The "epiphany" is just saying that people have different opinions, and that it's nice when people are nice. Which is obvious.

The green party is about certain political stances (notably environmentalism), and always has been. It has not become anything it opposed.

If Venus Mound can give me one good reason why relativism is either evil or false, then they will be my hero. What makes any opinion good, then?
I second that question.

What makes any opinion good, then?Well, that's your opinion.

;)

I would say that nazism and other totalitarian systems are the proof ad absurdum of the evils of relativism. If you decide that any opinion is acceptable just because it is held, then the unacceptable becomes acceptable. To prevent that, we all need some sort of a moral compass.

If you look at the belief system of every society you see similarities which can't be just a coincidence. Some moral rules are pretty much universal, such as decency, justice, honesty, respect for the given word, concern with common good, some form of marriage, some degree of private property, wanting one's children to have a better life than one had, etc. All these elements point to the fact that there is an eternal, universal human nature, which has a moral aspect which must be upheld.

Of course we don't know exactly what it is, although we're pretty sure it has something to do with "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." We can argue pretty much all night about what exactly it is, but I think you can't deny the fact that there is a universal moral standard that we mustn't deviate from.

Relativism abrogates this standard. It puts beliefs which annihilate man and beliefs which make man conform to his nature on the same level. In short, as I've said, it makes the unacceptable acceptable.

And that's unacceptable. :)

Aw, I love that post-epiphany buzz! I recently had an epiphany about comprehensional boundaries in an infinite universe, so I know the feeling. Metanoia is my word of the week. Yay for metanoia.

What was your epiphany?

Ok, I see your point about extreme systems. Sorry to be in-your-face.

You said yourself that we can't know what these universals are, so how can we discuss something that we can never have any knowledge about?

You don't have to accept extreme views if you are relativist; we can all agree that the world is a better place because people accept that killing other people for no reason (for example) is wrong. It's called a social contract: if we behave for the good of the community, it is more likely to prosper. We don't need unexplainable absolute morals to see that.

Well, I believe I figured it all out. I know that some will agree, some will disagree, and some will just talk shit and belittle me. BUT I am happy to hear it all ,because it only supports my epiphany! I was reading through the forums and suddenly it hit me. Oppostion is a natural occurance ! It will never go away! If you have an idea, there will always be those that hate it. There will ALWAYS be naysayers, and there will always(most of the time) be supporters. Its not how we voice our opinions. Its not how we react to others. It is whether or not we accept that different opinions don't constitute different values or ideals. It only matters that we are good people, not what country we are from, or what political party we belong to. I think that being part of a party is just a way of feeling like we have a voice, but in reality, its just a way to lose our voice in the roar of a crowd. Any thoughts?


P.S. I'm a right leaning centrist, if anyone is wondering.

You just realized this?

Look at the history of US politics.. It itself has been teaming with opposition... Even from the moment of its inception under the new constitution.... The founders who took part immediately broke into groups..

Since then it has been one group vying with another, and splinter groups shooting out or being born inbetween, because no one can honestly and completely agree with all the ideologies and beliefs of another...

Welcome to life... where groups evolve, vie with one another for power... And attempt to take control of others for complete domination of their ideals...

Whether it is:
1. Strong Government vs. Limited Government vs. No Government
2. Theonomy vs. Secularism
3. Moral Order vs. Social Order vs. Libertine Thought
4. Capitalism vs. Socialism

No one can agree on all parts...

Welcome to the real world... I hope you enjoy your stay.... Please keep all appendiges inside the vehicle at all times....

What you've said is a very broad generalization, it would be like if I promised that a meteor could fall out of the sky and hit you.....It could happen, but probably won't; the fact the I promised you doesn't change any of the odds...When someone says something, then someone is going to react, that's part of being human; When we enconter something we react and form an opinion, the only thing that you really said was that, that opinion we form is going to be either positive or negative which by means of elimination....those are the only 2 choices therefore it would have to be one of the 2, the fact that you just now realized that leads me to believe that you are a very slow learner wheather that's true or not, it's just my opinion.

Ok, I see your point about extreme systems. Sorry to be in-your-face.No problem.You said yourself that we can't know what these universals are, so how can we discuss something that we can never have any knowledge about?I didn't say that we can't know anything, we do have the elements I've mentioned. The details are what's hard to pin down--and it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. The Habeas Corpus, the Amendments to the U.S. Constitution, the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and others are all attempts to do this. They may not be perfect, but it's good that such attempts are made, don't you think?You don't have to accept extreme views if you are relativist; we can all agree that the world is a better place because people accept that killing other people for no reason (for example) is wrong. It's called a social contract: if we behave for the good of the community, it is more likely to prosper. We don't need unexplainable absolute morals to see that.Ah, yes, but the concern for the common good isn't the same as a moral concern. As you said, it's for the good of the community: it's because it makes people's lives easier/better, not because it's morally right.

Of course, if you're an utilitarian you believe that the concern for the common good is all we need, but I believe that's unrealistic. Humans have concerns beyond their welfare, moral concerns. Therefore, an utilitarian society which is based only on common good is not enough. Of course we need a social contract and we need to work toward a better society, but "better" doesn't just mean practically better, because then you start to think that killing old people and the handicapped instead of having them in costly institutions is more cost efficient, and that turning people into food (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/) is just the best idea you've had all day.

Also, there's the problem that a social contract only works in a society. There's no such thing as a universal social contract, even though the UN wishes there were.

And, sorry for breaking down your quote, I know some people don't like that, but I wanted to address the specific points in your post.

The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 87)

VM,
When we argue about moral issues, we don't talk about why what we are saying resembles a perfect moral fact, just that we think society would be better if things were a certain way. Do you really think we are communicating with some objective truth on what's right and wrong? How would that work? I know it's unpalatable, but exceptions like cannibalism can be explained by cultural norms and stuff (not everyone agrees its wrong, probably including our ancestors).

That's enough for me to rely on the social contract (and the world as a whole is a society). Especially when the idea of morals being objectively right or wrong is so unexplainable. Who makes the decision about them?

Well, I believe I figured it all out. I know that some will agree, some will disagree, and some will just talk shit and belittle me. BUT I am happy to hear it all ,because it only supports my epiphany! I was reading through the forums and suddenly it hit me. Oppostion is a natural occurance ! It will never go away! If you have an idea, there will always be those that hate it. There will ALWAYS be naysayers, and there will always(most of the time) be supporters. Its not how we voice our opinions. Its not how we react to others. It is whether or not we accept that different opinions don't constitute different values or ideals. It only matters that we are good people, not what country we are from, or what political party we belong to. I think that being part of a party is just a way of feeling like we have a voice, but in reality, its just a way to lose our voice in the roar of a crowd. Any thoughts?


P.S. I'm a right leaning centrist, if anyone is wondering.
no shit... humans are competitive animals.. we've known it for years.. good job here's a cookie

I've had an Epiphany!!!!!
But that was just her stage name, right?

Wait. you can fucking say fuck in this forum. but you can't tell another person to go f--k themselves. well, then i suppose it made sense that i censored the middle letters, now fucking doens't it. fuck. as long as fuck i don't fucking fuck someone by saying the f-word to them then i can say fuck all i want? just clarifying. fuck. i want to f--k jenna bush.

sorry, this was from like 43 fucking posts ago. just fucking ignore me. you f--kers.

love,
satan

I voted for the first option because I have no idea what your talking about. But don't worry, it's not personal. ^.^