NationStates Jolt Archive

Not me. I'm a HUGE Star Trek fan but I don't think Star Trek 2: The Wrath Of Khan is a cinematic masterpeice that rivals such movies as Casablanca or Psycho. I know that such a thing as personal opinion exists, however I just don't see what was all that impressive about those movies. Do I have to read the book to enjoy it? Or do I just have bad taste?

A little of both. You should read the books... AND you probably have bad taste. :p

Well I think about it this way. I didn't see any interesting camera angles, the acting wasn't all that great(in my opinion), and it was long and boring(again, in my opinion). It was colorful and had good cgi and all, but I just didn't find it that interesting. I think it's quite rediculous to consider it one of the greatest CINEMATIC masterpeices, not even close. There was nothing groundbreaking about it.

Star Trek 2: The Wrath Of Khan
Khaaaaaaan!

Sorry.

But the books are better than the films. Easily. Even though the films are damn good.

Khaaaaaaan!

Or the whole version *clears throat*:

Khan: I have done far worse than kill you...I have hurt you...and I wish to go on...hurting you. I shall leave you as you had left me...as you left her. Stranded at the center of a dead planet...marooned for all eternity...burried aliiiiivee

Kirk: KHANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Damn I love my Trekkieness :p

The Lotr movies? They're no good at all. Bloody disappointment, just like the recent Star Wars.

I dont care about the films...I'm just hijacking to say hello to my banana berry fluffle bunny bear.


I got your e-mail and will answer it...I'll be back amongst the living Wednesday....

I dont care about the films...I'm just hijacking to say hello to my banana berry fluffle bunny bear.


I got your e-mail and will answer it...I'll be back amongst the living Wednesday....

I've been worried about your sweet, fine, and foxy self! Tell me all about where you have been in your e-mail!

Kejott, you really do need to read the books to get enjoyment out of the movies. Otherwise, you'll be lost. And if you do read the books, you'll want to read everything else Tolkien wrote, too.

Well I think about it this way. I didn't see any interesting camera angles, the acting wasn't all that great(in my opinion), and it was long and boring(again, in my opinion). It was colorful and had good cgi and all, but I just didn't find it that interesting. I think it's quite rediculous to consider it one of the greatest CINEMATIC masterpeices, not even close. There was nothing groundbreaking about it.
Wait, you didn't see any interesting camera angles? None at all? Nothing in things like forced perspective that made Elijah Wood three feet tall?

Look, I understand not wanting to call it the best film since light was shown through celluloid, but it's ridciculous to go to the other end of the dial. It's not a switch "Greatest ever or worst ever". Christ oh mighty....

*flames everyone who disagress with her in violent and blasphemous language*

im not a film scholar so i cant judge if they are the pinnacle but they are an amazing feat of filmmaking.

ya ya ive been an extreme fan since i was 12 (back in 1969).

but jackson made 3 movies at one time and all of them made sense. AND he avoided doing some really stupid changes to the basic plot.

the CGI is excellent and fits well within the movie (something that can never be said about SW 1 & 2)

it certainly ranks at or near the top of the list of all sciencefiction/fantasy movies ever made.

Wait, you didn't see any interesting camera angles? None at all? Nothing in things like forced perspective that made Elijah Wood three feet tall?

Look, I understand not wanting to call it the best film since light was shown through celluloid, but it's ridciculous to go to the other end of the dial. It's not a switch "Greatest ever or worst ever". Christ oh mighty....

Now there were certain things about these films that were visually enjoyable, but I don't think that qualifies it as THE BEST FILM EVER MADE. Now I don't think it's the worst, because I have certainly seen way way way worse movies.

Well I think about it this way. I didn't see any interesting camera angles, the acting wasn't all that great(in my opinion), and it was long and boring(again, in my opinion). It was colorful and had good cgi and all, but I just didn't find it that interesting. I think it's quite rediculous to consider it one of the greatest CINEMATIC masterpeices, not even close. There was nothing groundbreaking about it.

ditto. LOTR films were okay... but not that great.

Now there were certain things about these films that were visually enjoyable, but I don't think that qualifies it as THE BEST FILM EVER MADE. Now I don't think it's the worst, because I have certainly seen way way way worse movies.
Okay, but who other than die-hards are calling it the best ever made? I've never even heard die-hards refer to it as best ever made, I've heard it refered to as their favorite movie of all time, but they are under no obligation to consider Citizen Cane as their favorite ever, there is a difference.

Those movies did a difficult thing, created a complete world that sucked the viewer into the experience and they where well made, not a mere factory press movie. If you're not into them it's understandable-epic fantasy isn't for everyone-in fact it's not even for me, but found the movies sucked me in.(and I only made it half way through the books before I decided that they where going to be chasing orcs for the rest of my natural life...) But you have just as much obligation in being realistic in your assessment of the film as you are holding the diehards to or you look even more ridiculous because if you don't you're really just a 'hater,' disliking because people like-an empty and sad existance.

Well I think about it this way. I didn't see any interesting camera angles, the acting wasn't all that great(in my opinion), and it was long and boring(again, in my opinion). It was colorful and had good cgi and all, but I just didn't find it that interesting. I think it's quite rediculous to consider it one of the greatest CINEMATIC masterpeices, not even close. There was nothing groundbreaking about it.

Yeah, I think there's alot of better movies out there but, LOTR was pretty solid. Pretty much everything you said was bang on, the acting in that just drives me nuts partiuclarly Elijah Woods. I just hated his performance, everytime I watch it, it just drive me insane. I thought it was the worst performance i've ever seen in a lead role since Titanic. Good, god, just horrible. Bloom too wasn't all that great. Outside of the acting, I thought it was an overall solid movie, well deserving of a 9 out of 10 on IMDB.

My problem with the films is that he obviously made them with the assumption everyone has already read all of the books.

Gandalf to Bilbo: "And don't blame me about that incident with the dragon."

Uh, excuse me, what dragon?

My problem with the films is that he obviously made them with the assumption everyone has already read all of the books.

Gandalf to Bilbo: "And don't blame me about that incident with the dragon."

Uh, excuse me, what dragon?
Allusions like that create a narrative world. If they, two friends who knew each other and had been through the experience of the dragon, stopped and explained it to each other in full it would have been unnatural and ackward, or was we like to call it "Exposition theater." The truth is, it didn't matter that you knew the details of what happened with the dragon or not-the important part of that conversation was that they where old friends who had been through ordeals, one of which involved a dragon. Those two lines actually gave you all the information you need to understand what was happening there, and was a completely natural exchange.

Okay, but who other than die-hards are calling it the best ever made? I've never even heard die-hards refer to it as best ever made, I've heard it refered to as their favorite movie of all time, but they are under no obligation to consider Citizen Cane as their favorite ever, there is a difference.

Those movies did a difficult thing, created a complete world that sucked the viewer into the experience and they where well made, not a mere factory press movie. If you're not into them it's understandable-epic fantasy isn't for everyone-in fact it's not even for me, but found the movies sucked me in.(and I only made it half way through the books before I decided that they where going to be chasing orcs for the rest of my natural life...) But you have just as much obligation in being realistic in your assessment of the film as you are holding the diehards to or you look even more ridiculous because if you don't you're really just a 'hater,' disliking because people like-an empty and sad existance.

Being a hardcore Trekkie I am discriminated against for obvious reasons because people just don't GET it. As for the LOTR Fans, they just enjoy something that entertains them just like me. It doesn't entertain me as it does them. I'm not trying to be a "hater", not at all. I watched the films with an open mind and with high expectations. I think I listened to the hype and expected more from the film. I was dreadfully dissapointed. It isn't the worst film I've seen but I just couldn't get into it. I prefer Sci-Fi because it seems as if such wonderous things COULD exist if humanity progresses far enough. It sparks my imagination and I certainly do not wish to deter other people from being inspired and entertained by LOTR.

Being a hardcore Trekkie I am discriminated against for obvious reasons because people just don't GET it. As for the LOTR Fans, they just enjoy something that entertains them just like me. It doesn't entertain me as it does them. I'm not trying to be a "hater", not at all. I watched the films with an open mind and with high expectations. I think I listened to the hype and expected more from the film. I was dreadfully dissapointed. It isn't the worst film I've seen but I just couldn't get into it. I prefer Sci-Fi because it seems as if such wonderous things COULD exist if humanity progresses far enough. It sparks my imagination and I certainly do not wish to deter other people from being inspired and entertained by LOTR.
I'll make two points then let you be-

First is-people need to learn to manage this 'hype' thing that keeps letting them down. Because a lot of people like it and your friends think you should see it does not mean that when you watch it you will be shattered to your core, your identity will be forever changed, your taxes done, and you will not have flown through time. It means that people liked the movie. If you go into a movie with exagerated expectations that means you have expected too much from a movie. Don't do that, you'll get a lot more joy out of movies. That goes for everybody. An open mind does not mean going into the movie expecting it to deliver orgasms. It means going in to a movie expecting to watch a movie.

Second, and this is not to be hostile but just to point something out-if you start a thread about how not-great something is, with out it being solicited-thats hatin'. Sorry. Whats the point, otherwise? Why, unsolicated, would you decide to 'set the record straight' and tell us you don't like the movie? Now I'm not going to be as harsh as I would normally be (usually it involves the 'go be into something you joyless husk'-I won't direct that at you), but I will say that starting a thread just to proclaim your dislike of a movie is a archetypical hater move. Hard to see it as anything else. Especially when you give the caveat that you prefer sci-fi over fantasy-sort of removes any relevance to you not liking the film.

If I'm having trouble sleeping at night, I put in LOTR and I'm out in 45 seconds.

Tolkein's a hack who uses flowery prose and pretty names to cover up the fact that there's no real story except the one he stole from Aeschylus - and stole badly, I might add. Most people fell for it. I did not.

I'll make two points then let you be-

First is-people need to learn to manage this 'hype' thing that keeps letting them down. Because a lot of people like it and your friends think you should see it does not mean that when you watch it you will be shattered to your core, your identity will be forever changed, your taxes done, and you will not have flown through time. It means that people liked the movie. If you go into a movie with exagerated expectations that means you have expected too much from a movie. Don't do that, you'll get a lot more joy out of movies. That goes for everybody. An open mind does not mean going into the movie expecting it to deliver orgasms. It means going in to a movie expecting to watch a movie.

Second, and this is not to be hostile but just to point something out-if you start a thread about how not-great something is, with out it being solicited-thats hatin'. Sorry. Whats the point, otherwise? Why, unsolicated, would you decide to 'set the record straight' and tell us you don't like the movie? Now I'm not going to be as harsh as I would normally be (usually it involves the 'go be into something you joyless husk'-I won't direct that at you), but I will say that starting a thread just to proclaim your dislike of a movie is a archetypical hater move. Hard to see it as anything else. Especially when you give the caveat that you prefer sci-fi over fantasy-sort of removes any relevance to you not liking the film.

And I have two points for you.

First: If everybody and their mother says a movie is GREAT then I expect it to be. I think it's about time I stop having faith in the intellectual capacity of other human beings, because lately I have been dissapointed by such atrocities on film. From The Ring to The Grudge, all a bunch of crap when everybody loved it.

Second: I only started this thread because I was annoyed at the audacity of people who claim that this is the best film of all time. I can't even begin to put into words how irritating that is. I just needed to get it out of my system, and it helped.

I understand you weren't trying to flame me, however I am not hating, I am not a hater, I am just sick of people claiming second rate moviemaking to be the essence of god him(she? it?)self.

Sure, the Lord of the Rings movies are pretty great as a literary adaptation... But, after having read the books, you realize that everything good in the movies is from the books, and everything that makes it not work is stuff that was tacked on. All of the little changes, modifications and additions they made to the story, in my opinion, all serve to hurt rather than support the central story. I totally understand the need to cut out certain things for time reasons, most notably the Scouring of the Shire... but it really harms the story. The Scouring is one of the most important events in the book, and to cut it out means that the film trilogy is missing a proper ending. Other things that make no sense, and tampered with Tolkien's story unnecessarily:

The elves showing up at Helm's Deep
The relegation of Gimli to comic relief
The way the Uruk-Hai look like they where being "spawned" underground or something. Oh, and the Wargs that looked like Hyenas. what was that about??!
Faramir being "seduced" by the ring in some vain attempt to introduce some pointless friction. Same with the emphasis on the relationship between Faramir/Boromir and their father, Denethor.
The cutting out of the Old Forest, and Tom Bombadil (one of the most mysterious and important characters in the trilogy)
The inevitable "grab my hand Frodo!" ending, with him dangling off of a ledge about to fall into lava. Please... :rolleyes:
and most annoyingly of all:
the feeble attempt to incorperate a love story into the film. Aragorn falling off of a cliff only to be rescued by some kinda vision of Arwen, all that ridiculousness about Narsil being reforged months after the Fellowship left Rivendell, all the pointless flashbacks and little asides with Agent Elrond ( ;) ) and Arwen... It just feels tacked on, like they're trying to bend the narrative into this hollywood mold even though the story obviously isn't primarily a straightforward love story.

Oh, and of course - wings on the Balrog :p I'm sure there's loads more I can't quite remember, I havn't read the books in a little while... But it still really grated on me.

The continuity in the films really bugged me as well... - the way they transitioned to those huge, panoramic views... Sure they where beautiful, but after a while i was thinking "hey... they where just on the edge of a forest... how the hell did they get to the top of that mountain so fast???" :p Bizarrely, the scale of Middle Earth as portrayed in the films was quite a bit larger than the way i imagined it from the book.

so... yeh. good fantasy films, but they're not truly Lord of the Rings, at least as I know it. :p

ahem... rant finí.

If you ask me UHF is the pinnacle of cinema acheivement. Hot Dogs on a Twinkie with Cheese Whiz! Genius!

Random Guy: "Where would I find books on Astronomy?"
Conan the Librarian: (Picks up guy by collar) "Don't chou know tha Dewey Decimal System?!"

I'm really tired of everyone complaining about how bad LOTR is. It's not the best movie of all time, but it's probably the best fantasy/sci-fi of all time. That's your own opinion, I guess. But how would you make a better Lord of the Rings movie? Go ahead and try, because that's the closest that'll ever come to being both Lord of the Rings and good. Whenever they took out Tolkien, or added something, they were doing it to make the movie better. One big thing is the "Grab my Hand, Frodo!" bit. This is what we call a climax. You can't have a big decision solved by him just lying there. Then Sam could just pick him up. It works great in books, just like having your villian as a floating eyeball, but it can't cut it on the screen. Just like Gollum falling off the edge. Frodo's had so much story invested in him, he can't just be a bystander in all this. Once again, try and make it better. There's no way you would be able to. I'm a film-maker too, and Lord of the Rings inspired me a lot.

I'm really tired of everyone complaining about how bad LOTR is. It's not the best movie of all time, but it's probably the best fantasy/sci-fi of all time. That's your own opinion, I guess. But how would you make a better Lord of the Rings movie? Go ahead and try, because that's the closest that'll ever come to being both Lord of the Rings and good. Whenever they took out Tolkien, or added something, they were doing it to make the movie better. One big thing is the "Grab my Hand, Frodo!" bit. This is what we call a climax. You can't have a big decision solved by him just lying there. Then Sam could just pick him up. It works great in books, just like having your villian as a floating eyeball, but it can't cut it on the screen. Just like Gollum falling off the edge. Frodo's had so much story invested in him, he can't just be a bystander in all this. Once again, try and make it better. There's no way you would be able to. I'm a film-maker too, and Lord of the Rings inspired me a lot.

It may be the best FANTASY movie of all time but it is certainly NOT the best SCI-FI movie of all time. Personally the best Sci-Fi movie is a tie between ST2:TWOK and ST8:FC.

Well they left out 2 of my favourite parts of the series (Bombadil and the Hobbit War), so I was dissapointed. It was a good movie, but it wasn't even the most enjoyable of the year. Pirates of the Caribbean had alot better acting(who can possibly beat Johhny Depp, he is by far the best actor of this generation) and entertained me alot more. The books were among the best I have read, but I like The Hobbit over any of the trilogy. Their sets were probably the among the best ever. The jawdropping scenery they worked so hard to create pretty much carried the movie.

What on Earth do you mean, it was most definitely the greatest ever promotional movie New Zealand tourism has ever put out.