NationStates Jolt Archive

Let the games begin.

One of the major reasons i dont have a religion is because of the ridiculousity of some stories preached. Case in point, the parting of the Red Sea and Noah's Ark. I view these stories through a scientific point of view, and they are complete bullsh1t.

Moses: First of all, this is simply impossible. Either it was a reaaaallllllllyyyy low tide, or a tsunami hit. The tsunami scenario is more plausible, but i would expect the Jews to have been swept up as well. Oh well, i guess it just never happened.

Noah: Simply not enough water to cover the Earth. They did a special on this on the discovery channel, about how it was really just a flood of the area that pulled his boat into the sea and made him believe it was the whole world flooded. And plus, how the heck do you get two of every creature on a boat? This is impossible as well.

If anyone would like to disprove any other stories, feel free.

Oh, and btw, if Santa Claus were to exist, he would burn up in the atmosphere at the speed he would need to go. Sorry kidies.

According to Matthew 27, a three-hour eclipse occured when Jesus was put on the cross. Thanks to those lovely people from NASA, this has been proven scientifically false.

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Bible/Contra/External/matt_eclipse.htm

dinosaurs.

there's millions of fossils of em, yet the bible never mentions them. the fossils are carbon dated to be millions of years old, but in the bible the earth was created only a few tens of thousands of years ago. same goes with plenty of other extinct animals.

bible stories arent ment to be taken literally, and the people who wrote the didnt exactally know how the world worked, so give them some credit...... Noah: it was proved that it was just a massive flood, and thats not what the story was about, it was about the fact that he knew that the flood was coming......

it says in the old testament that there is room in heaven for only 700,000 people (aprox, not sure of the actual figure, but it aint much!!)......

bible stories arent ment to be taken literally, and the people who wrote the didnt exactally know how the world worked, so give them some credit...... Noah: it was proved that it was just a massive flood, and thats not what the story was about, it was about the fact that he knew that the flood was coming......

it says in the old testament that there is room in heaven for only 700,000 people (aprox, not sure of the actual figure, but it aint much!!)......

where does it say that.....read it several times...never saw that.....source please....

Not really a disproof... more a question:

"Moses" means (in Hebrew) "Drawn"... supposedly, the Pharaoh's wife gave the name to the boy, because she drew him from the water.

The question is: Why would a Pharaoh name his son (a prince of Egypt, no less), with a Hebrew name?

The other alternative is that the Hebrew version is a corruption: of m'ses, for example - which basically would just mean "born", in Egyptian.

The question is, then: Why would a Pharaoh name his son "born"?

Not really a disproof... more a question:

"Moses" means (in Hebrew) "Drawn"... supposedly, the Pharaoh's wife gave the name to the boy, because she drew him from the water.

The question is: Why would a Pharaoh name his son (a prince of Egypt, no less), with a Hebrew name?

The other alternative is that the Hebrew version is a corruption: of m'ses, for example - which basically would just mean "born", in Egyptian.

The question is, then: Why would a Pharaoh name his son "born"?

Hmm...he would have been circumsised...therefore known to be hebrew......

They never say dinosaurs didn't not exist. As for the rest, it is a question of faith. Of course you can't see miracles as an occurance, because you obviously don't believe that such things are possible. I'm not blaming you, just stating my observation. Going to the 'world-dating' thing. The theologist, if you want to call him that, used the geneology of Jesus to make it. But as we all know, humans weren't on the planet for quite a while. Since a day consists of one revolution of the Earth, when the world was formless, it didn't have an orbit, much less a rotation. Besides, a day could be in reference to how God percieved it. He was, if you're a creation-evolutionist like me, the first being. A day in God's time might be a hundred, a thousand, or even a million years. Oh, and for the eclipse. An eclipse could have occured at that time, but remember that it was getting towards the end of the day when the guards decided to see if He was dead. Since it was already getting dark, the sun could have set on its own and everyone just percieved it as the eclipse. Besides, it was written by His friends. How many times have you're friends made stuff you did seem bigger or more fantastic than it was :D

Peace be with You.

Hmm...he would have been circumsised...therefore known to be hebrew......

Which still doesn't explain how he would get a Hebrew name from Egyptian parents.

Or why, if he was to be 'prince', they would give him a Hebrew name.

The most logical explanation is that the name was 'invented' by Hebrew scholars... either to match an actual prince of Egypt (for whom they did not know the actual name) or to name a fictional figure.

Let the games begin.

One of the major reasons i dont have a religion is because of the ridiculousity of some stories preached. Case in point, the parting of the Red Sea and Noah's Ark. I view these stories through a scientific point of view, and they are complete bullsh1t.

Moses: First of all, this is simply impossible. Either it was a reaaaallllllllyyyy low tide, or a tsunami hit. The tsunami scenario is more plausible, but i would expect the Jews to have been swept up as well. Oh well, i guess it just never happened.

Noah: Simply not enough water to cover the Earth. They did a special on this on the discovery channel, about how it was really just a flood of the area that pulled his boat into the sea and made him believe it was the whole world flooded. And plus, how the heck do you get two of every creature on a boat? This is impossible as well.

If anyone would like to disprove any other stories, feel free.

Oh, and btw, if Santa Claus were to exist, he would burn up in the atmosphere at the speed he would need to go. Sorry kidies.

You have not disproved anything: you have simply expressed an alternate belief. But thanks for playing.

Who was goliath killed by, David or Elahanan?

where does it say that.....read it several times...never saw that.....source please....

There are two references to specific numbers of people:

Revelation 7:3-4 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads... And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel".

and Revelation 14:3-5 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth... These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.... And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God".

Both of which enumerate only 144,000 entrants to heaven... specifically 144,000 Jewish, male virgins that do not lie.

Perhaps the 700,000 number is derived from calculations of how many people you could fit into the dimensions given for the heavenly city?

Revelation 21:16 "And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal".

Who was goliath killed by, David or Elahanan?

Well - David killed him twice, whereas Elhanan only killed him once... so I guess David wins on points.

when moses parted the red sea, it was a miracle...of course you can't prove it scientifically...

Let the games begin.

One of the major reasons i dont have a religion is because of the ridiculousity of some stories preached. Case in point, the parting of the Red Sea and Noah's Ark. I view these stories through a scientific point of view, and they are complete bullsh1t.

Moses: First of all, this is simply impossible. Either it was a reaaaallllllllyyyy low tide, or a tsunami hit. The tsunami scenario is more plausible, but i would expect the Jews to have been swept up as well. Oh well, i guess it just never happened.

Noah: Simply not enough water to cover the Earth. They did a special on this on the discovery channel, about how it was really just a flood of the area that pulled his boat into the sea and made him believe it was the whole world flooded. And plus, how the heck do you get two of every creature on a boat? This is impossible as well.

If anyone would like to disprove any other stories, feel free.

Oh, and btw, if Santa Claus were to exist, he would burn up in the atmosphere at the speed he would need to go. Sorry kidies.



A english teacher at my old school said the same thing on santa clause.

It is impossible to get Two of EVERY Creature in one place anyway.
I mean.
Over 2000 speceis of fly alone.

I plan to write a whole book thoroughly debunking every bible story.

*Sigh

Look, folks, most bible stories are untrue, at least those in the Old Testiment. That doesn't mean they are just there for no reason. They're there to set religious precident and to teach lessons important to religion. Why some of you think they all have to be true for a religion to stand is beyond me.

Silly silly people How are you gona prove that someting does not exist with science when you have to have faith to understand and know that God exists? Like Freeunitedstates said its a FAITH thing. so go on with your little scientific discutions they mean absolutly nothing. God is God. He created you he created me he created evertying. why.. Because he is GOD!

Have a nice day


Oh and the santa Clause thing Thats Elf Magic! Hello!!!

According to Matthew 27, a three-hour eclipse occured when Jesus was put on the cross. Thanks to those lovely people from NASA, this has been proven scientifically false.

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Bible/Contra/External/matt_eclipse.htm

it doesnt record an eclipse but the darkening of the sky and it has been verified by roman historians of the time who ould have no reason to lie about it

Silly silly people How are you gona prove that someting does not exist with science when you have to have faith to understand and know that God exists? Like Freeunitedstates said its a FAITH thing. so go on with your little scientific discutions they mean absolutly nothing. God is God. He created you he created me he created evertying. why.. Because he is GOD!

Have a nice day


Oh and the santa Clause thing Thats Elf Magic! Hello!!!

So - anyone who doesn't believe in your 'god' is silly?

Nice.

Surely, you realise that the same view must be held by persons of OTHER faiths, yes?

it doesnt record an eclipse but the darkening of the sky and it has been verified by roman historians of the time who ould have no reason to lie about it

Source? Evidence?

Silly silly people How are you gona prove that someting does not exist with science when you have to have faith to understand and know that God exists? Like Freeunitedstates said its a FAITH thing. so go on with your little scientific discutions they mean absolutly nothing. God is God. He created you he created me he created evertying. why.. Because he is GOD!

Have a nice day


Oh and the santa Clause thing Thats Elf Magic! Hello!!!


What about other religeons which argue there are more than one god?
If i have to have faith to know god exists then that means that god does not exist without human faith.
Therefore God is dependant on us to function.

So - anyone who doesn't believe in your 'god' is silly?

Nice.

Surely, you realise that the same view must be held by persons of OTHER faiths, yes?


um yea. i know that. I was just shareing my opinion on the matter.

Every one has one.

What about other religeons which argue there are more than one god?
If i have to have faith to know god exists then that means that god does not exist without human faith.
Therefore God is dependant on us to function.


Um no He still exists even if you dont beleve in him.

Um no He still exists even if you dont beleve in him.

As you said, everyone has an opinion...

You cannot prove your 'god' exists, can you?

Thus, your assertion that "He still exists even if you dont beleve in him" (sic), is not as much a 'fact' as you imagine.

As you said, everyone has an opinion...

You cannot prove your 'god' exists, can you?

Thus, your assertion that "He still exists even if you dont beleve in him" (sic), is not as much a 'fact' as you imagine.


Eh We will see in the end.

Eh We will see in the end.
Which is an admission that you can prove nothing.

Which makes me wonder why you insist on stating it as fact.

As you said, everyone has an opinion...

You cannot prove your 'god' exists, can you?

Thus, your assertion that "He still exists even if you dont beleve in him" (sic), is not as much a 'fact' as you imagine.


I cannot prove god himself exists but i can prove chrits existance and and give you many reasons why he was the christ not mad or o liar backed up by roman texts

Source? Evidence?
i was told by my history teacher ill try and find out if this topic carries on 2morrow

Which is an admission that you can prove nothing.

Which makes me wonder why you insist on stating it as fact.

do you have any proof that God does not exist? no, so stop stating it as fact.

Which is an admission that you can prove nothing.

Which makes me wonder why you insist on stating it as fact.


Because i said it was a Faith thing. are you not listing to me? im not gona go round and round about this. One of these days some one is gona present God to you and you will have a choice you will eather Beleave or not beleave. I pray that you choose to beleave and have Faith that he is real. But if not Theres nothing much i can do for you accept Pray that you make the smart choice. Im not here to prove my God ( Big G by the way) Hes too Big to have to prove to any one. So i said We will see in the end.

I cannot prove god himself exists but i can prove chrits existance and and give you many reasons why he was the christ not mad or o liar backed up by roman texts


Careful with your assertions, there is only very week evidence from Roman texts - Tacitus refers to one "Chrestus" but was not himself anywhere near Judaea. It is interesting to note the significant Jewish historian Josephus never mentions Jesus.

I cannot prove god himself exists but i can prove chrits existance and and give you many reasons why he was the christ not mad or o liar backed up by roman texts

Sorry, friend.

If you exclude biblical texts, there is NO contemporary evidence that supports the existence of Christ.

The EARLIEST independent verification is nearly 100 years too late, and commonly identified as a forgery.

do you have any proof that God does not exist? no, so stop stating it as fact.

I haven't stated any such thing.

I have stated there is no proof that god DOES exist... that is not the same as saying there IS proof that he does NOT exist.

Because i said it was a Faith thing. are you not listing to me? im not gona go round and round about this. One of these days some one is gona present God to you and you will have a choice you will eather Beleave or not beleave. I pray that you choose to beleave and have Faith that he is real. But if not Theres nothing much i can do for you accept Pray that you make the smart choice. Im not here to prove my God ( Big G by the way) Hes too Big to have to prove to any one. So i said We will see in the end.

Making too many assumptions, my friend.

I WAS a Christian, and have since lost my faith in the Christian 'god'

You stated as a fact "Um no He still exists even if you dont beleve in him"... which is clearly unprovable. That is my contention... you are stating your 'belief' as though it were 'fact'.

You make the assertion, also, that 'believing' is the "smart choice" - and yet, still, all you have is opinion.

Why should I believe your 'choice' is in ANY WAY smart? Why should anyone believe that your 'god' is real?

It seems to me that, in the absence of proof, the 'smart' choice would be to suspend judgement.

Careful with your assertions, there is only very week evidence from Roman texts - Tacitus refers to one "Chrestus" but was not himself anywhere near Judaea. It is interesting to note the significant Jewish historian Josephus never mentions Jesus.

the Josephus one is contested i admit

however Cornelius TaciTus said when referring to christian persecutewd by nero "...christus" (another spelling for christ)" the founder of the name, was put to by Pontus Pilate, procurator of Juda in the region of Tiberius"

Look, folks, most bible stories are untrue, at least those in the Old Testiment. That doesn't mean they are just there for no reason. They're there to set religious precident and to teach lessons important to religion. Why some of you think they all have to be true for a religion to stand is beyond me.

I wouldn't expect the Bible stories to be true, except that everything else in the Bible is interpreted as EXACTLY RIGHT by religion. Either the Bible is all completely right, or it isn't. And if you're willing to admit that some of these are parables, then maybe all of "God's rules" should be open to interpretation.

the Josephus one is contested i admit

however Cornelius TaciTus said when referring to christian persecutewd by nero "...christus" (another spelling for christ)" the founder of the name, was put to by Pontus Pilate, procurator of Juda in the region of Tiberius"

And where did Tacitus get his info from eh? He could well have been reporting what he had heard from Christians, there is no evidence it is based on official documentation.

The fact the most contemporary source (Josephus) doesn't mention it at all makes it highly suspicious.

Making too many assumptions, my friend.

I WAS a Christian, and have since lost my faith in the Christian 'god'

You stated as a fact "Um no He still exists even if you dont beleve in him"... which is clearly unprovable. That is my contention... you are stating your 'belief' as though it were 'fact'.

You make the assertion, also, that 'believing' is the "smart choice" - and yet, still, all you have is opinion.

Why should I believe your 'choice' is in ANY WAY smart? Why should anyone believe that your 'god' is real?

It seems to me that, in the absence of proof, the 'smart' choice would be to suspend judgement.



Eh do what you want then.. But by my Faith and Millions of others Faith, God Exists, thats all the proof I need. But i guess i have my own proof that i hardly can share. Becuse you would not beleave me and would call me crazy or turn it round and try to say its someting else. Do what you want. as i said before In the End we will see who is right. But for my Opinion I know that i know that i know that i know i am Right that my GOD exists.

In Genesis 6:15: Ark= 300 cubits (140m) long, 50 cubits (23m) wide, en 30 cubits (13,5m) high.
If we put in every known family of species and consider that everything that is known now is an mutation of those families we come at:
0,022 cubical metres per family. That isn't much. Especialy when you want to feed them (which is a hell of a job, since that are a lot of mouths to feed).

Consider the next thing: Galileo proved that not every heavenly (space) body revolves around earth. He had to withdrew that since the church had some interesting arguments (like torture). We now know that galileo was right.
Also: people said once said that earth was flat. Those were also millions. We consider them now also as wrong.

Originally posted by Jbic
But by my Faith and Millions of others Faith, God Exists, thats all the proof I need.

By my beliefs and the beliefs of millions of others, God DOESN'T exist. Ooh, that's irrefutable proof against him/her/it alright. :rolleyes:

Edit 1: But for the sake of the argument, I would have to agree with Grave_n_idle - it's best to suspend judgement on the topic of the existance of God (as well as the existance of other theoretical elements, such as time and numbers).

Eh do what you want then.. But by my Faith and Millions of others Faith, God Exists, thats all the proof I need. But i guess i have my own proof that i hardly can share. Becuse you would not beleave me and would call me crazy or turn it round and try to say its someting else. Do what you want. as i said before In the End we will see who is right. But for my Opinion I know that i know that i know that i know i am Right that my GOD exists.

And, as long as you state it as your opinion, everything is just peachy.

But, if you are going to assert that your 'god' is 'fact', I call foul... and demand evidence.

By the way... just because lots of people believe it... doesn't make it true.

I know present the following scientific theories which are widely held as truth:

Theory of Everything
String Theory
Superstring Theory
Bosonic String Theory.

With these theories, one must recognize that not all can be readily understood. Dimensions exist that we cannot understand simply becasue we do not live in those dimensions. The theories also leave the door open for a god to live within the greater dimensions. Therefore, science proves that God CAN exist, and that we CANNOT understand it all.

Oh, and by the way.

Science has also had lots of trouble with religion. Let us bring up the multiply miracles in which a person is suddenly healed. In the case of the Catholic faith, the Vatican launches an all out scientific investigation. Even non-believing scientists are used. Many times, all sides agree that science cannot explain the event and therefore it is deemed a miracle.

Don't rely on science in all cases, especially when science cannot always rely on itself.

I know present the following scientific theories which are widely held as truth:

Theory of Everything
String Theory
Superstring Theory
Bosonic String Theory.

With these theories, one must recognize that not all can be readily understood. Dimensions exist that we cannot understand simply becasue we do not live in those dimensions. The theories also leave the door open for a god to live within the greater dimensions. Therefore, science proves that God CAN exist, and that we CANNOT understand it all.

Science has never denied that 'god' CAN exist...

It just cannot prove that 'god' DOES exist.

Oh ye of little faith.

Oh, and by the way.

Science has also had lots of trouble with religion. Let us bring up the multiply miracles in which a person is suddenly healed. In the case of the Catholic faith, the Vatican launches an all out scientific investigation. Even non-believing scientists are used. Many times, all sides agree that science cannot explain the event and therefore it is deemed a miracle.

Don't rely on science in all cases, especially when science cannot always rely on itself.

I think you have a distorted view of what science 'does'.

Science generates mechanisms to attempt to explain what is observable.

You don't 'rely' on science... you use it to provide possible explanations for the phenomena you record.

I could, however, equally say that you shouldn't always rely on religion, for the very same reason.

Then there is the matter of the talking snake...Scientists have proven it's impossible for a snake to talk.

Then there is the matter of the talking snake...Scientists have proven it's impossible for a snake to talk.

They can't prove that's impossible, only show that it's improbable. They can only point out that there is no physical evidence for snakes to have that ability, nor any verified and testable incidents of snakes talking. Scientifically its highly, highly unlikely, but from a physical standpoint, ANYTHING is possible no matter how absurd. And who knows, maybe snakes hissing is communication... using the mouth... hence talking?

They can't prove that's impossible, only show that it's improbable. They can only point out that there is no physical evidence for snakes to have that ability, nor any verified and testable incidents of snakes talking. Scientifically its highly, highly unlikely, but from a physical standpoint, ANYTHING is possible no matter how absurd. And who knows, maybe snakes hissing is communication... using the mouth... hence talking?

I doubt lab-tests are necessary for that one... Though it would be fun seeing people in white coats talking to different kinds of snakes and noting the responses they get. Or maybe they are using the wrong kind of apple. Or maybe it was really a parrot and not a snake...

They can't prove that's impossible, only show that it's improbable. They can only point out that there is no physical evidence for snakes to have that ability, nor any verified and testable incidents of snakes talking. Scientifically its highly, highly unlikely, but from a physical standpoint, ANYTHING is possible no matter how absurd. And who knows, maybe snakes hissing is communication... using the mouth... hence talking?


No, no, it's impossible. They do not possess structures necessary for the sounds to be formed to talk.

No, no, it's impossible. They do not possess structures necessary for the sounds to be formed to talk.

Maybe a ventriloquist played a really nasty trick on Eve?

Maybe a ventriloquist played a really nasty trick on Eve?


Well, there were only two other people who could speak - god and Adam...

my money is on god being the ventriloquist, git that he is

Well, there were only two other people who could speak - god and Adam...

my money is on god being the ventriloquist, git that he is
Or Satan :)


But it wasn't a snake, it was a lizard. He became a snake AFTERWARDS, when God got pissed off and removed his legs.

They can't prove that's impossible, only show that it's improbable. They can only point out that there is no physical evidence for snakes to have that ability, nor any verified and testable incidents of snakes talking. Scientifically its highly, highly unlikely, but from a physical standpoint, ANYTHING is possible no matter how absurd. And who knows, maybe snakes hissing is communication... using the mouth... hence talking?

That brings up an interesting point. Technically, IF the universe was infinite, then there would be an infinite amount of earths. That means that for EVERY possibility, no matter how small, it would happen an infinite amount of times. So, right now, on an infinite amount of earths, a little green man pops out of your a$$ as you are reading this, does a riverdance and kills himself with a pencil.

That brings up an interesting point. Technically, IF the universe was infinite, then there would be an infinite amount of earths. That means that for EVERY possibility, no matter how small, it would happen an infinite amount of times. So, right now, on an infinite amount of earths, a little green man pops out of your a$$ as you are reading this, does a riverdance and kills himself with a pencil.

Nope.

Only if there is an inifnite amount of matter. The universe can be infinite but if matter is not then there are limits on what happens.

I know present the following scientific theories which are widely held as truth:

Theory of Everything
String Theory
Superstring Theory
Bosonic String Theory.

With these theories, one must recognize that not all can be readily understood. Dimensions exist that we cannot understand simply becasue we do not live in those dimensions. The theories also leave the door open for a god to live within the greater dimensions. Therefore, science proves that God CAN exist, and that we CANNOT understand it all.

? I don't think String Theory is hat widely held as truth - its pretty far out there, and shooting for a unified theory is rarely credible until you have incredible results.

Pro Tip: If you're going to make outrageous claims like "there are miracles all the time and science is just like, "Wow man, God must really exist and stuff, we're stumped!"", provide a source.

And also realize that there are thousands of things science couldn't explain that were attributed to God's powers, which were later explained by science. See: Lightning, rain, the formation of stars, and just about every natural phenomena ever

? I don't think String Theory is hat widely held as truth - its pretty far out there, and shooting for a unified theory is rarely credible until you have incredible results.

It is a bit out there, but it is simply an example of how scientists are showing that not all things are physically explainable becuase there are things we cannot grasp due to are limited number of dimensions.

No, no, it's impossible. They do not possess structures necessary for the sounds to be formed to talk.

Mutation. People once said it was impossible to break the sound barrier. Same with manned flight. Science has among it's tenets the principle of falsibility - if I showed you a snake that talked you would have to accept that it was, in fact, possible, yes?

I wouldn't expect the Bible stories to be true, except that everything else in the Bible is interpreted as EXACTLY RIGHT by religion. Either the Bible is all completely right, or it isn't. And if you're willing to admit that some of these are parables, then maybe all of "God's rules" should be open to interpretation.

You see, thinking that everything is exactly right is as wrong as thinking everything in there is wrong. Everything in the bible is there for a reason, that doesn't mean you take it as it's written and nothing can possibly be different from what has been said because God says so. The stories themselves are not based on eye-witnessed accounts. They are man's interpretation of the word of God.

I am of the opinion that Genisis and some parts of the rest of the bible are meant to be taken figuratively to help us learn God's message and will. Jesus often taught through parables. It could be that some parts of the bible do so as well.

I'm kind of reminded of Douglas Adams comment of "After a man was nailed to a tree for saying how nice it would be if everyone were nice to each other". Leaving aside mircles, overly large boats, timelines, and talking snakes, can we at least agree that treating everyone with respect and as how you would like to be treated is a good idea? No matter where it came from?

And yes, this question is for both sides of the great talking snake debate.

If miracles could be explained scientifically, they would not be miracles would they? Its the very fact that it is impossible except through divine intervention that makes a miracle a miracle.

Just because an occurence can be explained by science doesn't mean that it isn't the will of God/Odin/Zeus/The Great Purple Unicorn Zaranuthisiana. If you look at it from a religious standpoint, a lot of things in the world are the will of whatever you see as god, and are still explainable.

As for the Bible specifically, I do not believe that it is the one and only truth, but I do agree that at least part of it has at least part of the message. Science will one day prove the existance of at least one god, and maybe magic to for all we know... And then everyone will just say, "well i'll be damned! Now, how can we exploit it for our own personal benefit?"

No garuntee that it will be the god that you want it to be, or I want it to be. It could be Odin, YHVH, Zeus, Her Great Purpleness, or even Cthulu for all we know, but I think that it will happen one day.

The best option for this proof comes from proving String Theory: all matter in our dimension is composed of strings vibrating down from a higher dimension... Strike the right note, change the vibration, change part of reality.

And they actually are close to finding proof for the String Theory. Or, at least, close to doing something that may provide proof. They are working on making subatomic singularities in a proton accelerator. They theorize that these singularities will last for a matter of nanoseconds before dissipating. But the question is, what will they dissipate into, since singularities are essentially holes in our dimension? Some people think that it will be strings. If it is, then we have our answer.

I'm kind of reminded of Douglas Adams comment of "After a man was nailed to a tree for saying how nice it would be if everyone were nice to each other". Leaving aside mircles, overly large boats, timelines, and talking snakes, can we at least agree that treating everyone with respect and as how you would like to be treated is a good idea? No matter where it came from?

And yes, this question is for both sides of the great talking snake debate.


Codemning non-believers to an eternal fire is hardly nice is it?

The bible is a viscous book, and makes a concerted effort to destroy reason as the basis for knowledge - thus undermining one of the fundamental principles of science and all rational thought.

As for the sound barrier, who said it could not be broken and what scientific support did they give?

Mutations don't give the sudden appearence of a voicebox, except perhaps those caused by genetic modification induced by humans.

Codemning non-believers to an eternal fire is hardly nice is it?
Never said it was. Deciding that someone has no intelligence due to their religion isn't nice either though.

The bible is a viscous book, and makes a concerted effort to destroy reason as the basis for knowledge - thus undermining one of the fundamental principles of science and all rational thought.
Uh... okkkkaaaaay. I can accept vicious in places (collecting foreskins isn't a hobby that will win you friends, at least I HOPE not), but not in all places. But an all out effort to destroy reason?

As for the sound barrier, who said it could not be broken and what scientific support did they give?
Was this from another post? Because I didn't mention it.

Some good stuff to read

Was this from another post? Because I didn't mention it.

Yes it was. Two birds with one post.

The very nature of 'faith' is an attack on reason. It requires there to be an alternative way of obtaining knowledge based on an entirely irrational footing.

It's been an interesting read...

Personally I believe that you need more faith to believe God doesn't exist! I mean what are the chances of life just exploding out of absolutley nothing?!?! Incredible... And what of evolution, I can understand micro-evolution slight adaptations to surroundings but to think my ansestors were swinging about in trees? I mean how did the fish get up there in the first place?! It all seems a bit too far fetched to have happened for no particular reason.

However, everyone has their own opinions and I respect that as I hope they respect mine...

Yes it was. Two birds with one post.
Ah, ok, that makes more sense then. ;)
The very nature of 'faith' is an attack on reason. It requires there to be an alternative way of obtaining knowledge based on an entirely irrational footing.
I would argue that you are equating faith with the literal interpretations of the Bible as presented by fundalmentalists, not faith. There are many Christians, myself included, who (hmm, believe isn't quite the right word, neither is accept, but they'll have to do) believe and accept the arguments and evidence of science. There are also credible scientists (not the mysterious ones who have 'proved' the Bible right, real ones) who are also men and women of faith, and who do not let their faith blind them, or bind them.

Yes, I agree with evolution and the Big Bang, it makes sence and fits the currently gathered evdence. Science changes, but always with the discovery of new evidence. The Bible is a good book, filled with advice on how to live a good life as a good person (hence my treat all with respect post), but I don't think it was ever ment to be taken litterally. Faith then is something profoundly personal, a notion that it is right and just to live a right and just life and to treat all as you would like to be treated.

And since it is personal, I don't see it being right to ram it down someone's throat.

For stories of floods, raising from the dead, and all that, couldn't tell you for sure. Science says no, and they're most likely right (nothing ever being positive). But I see nothing wrong with having faith that humanity might just have a bright future, and faith that treating all others with respect is important. I don't see how that is an alternate way of knowing either. But I would like your thoughts.

I think that if you are a Christian but doubt the miracles (raising from the dead, etc) you should get yourself to South America or SE Asia - S Korea is a good one, and seek out the churches there... Miracles galore! Believe what the Bible says it's true! People in Argentina rise from the dead all the time! It's amazing! I've seen a guy with a club left foot. People prayed and his foot grew back - unbelieveable I know but it happen! His left leg was slightly shorter than his right and he was asked if he wanted the left leg to grow or the right to shrink slightly - you beauty!

I think that if you are a Christian but doubt the miracles (raising from the dead, etc) you should get yourself to South America or SE Asia - S Korea is a good one, and seek out the churches there... Miracles galore! Believe what the Bible says it's true! People in Argentina rise from the dead all the time! It's amazing! I've seen a guy with a club left foot. People prayed and his foot grew back - unbelieveable I know but it happen! His left leg was slightly shorter than his right and he was asked if he wanted the left leg to grow or the right to shrink slightly - you beauty!
Ano... Nan da Hell?

*Sigh

Look, folks, most bible stories are untrue, at least those in the Old Testiment. That doesn't mean they are just there for no reason. They're there to set religious precident and to teach lessons important to religion. Why some of you think they all have to be true for a religion to stand is beyond me.

You see, this is the problem. Half the christians say the bible is the literal, word of god, truth, and the other half say it is metaphors. So even the christians can't agree over their most important text.

As a mix of history, myth and metaphor the bible works very well. As the word of god, it's laughable.

I plan to write a whole book thoroughly debunking every bible story.

That wouldn't be a good idea. First, it would be huge, noone would want to read it. Second, there are too many Christans in power in the world for it to ever be taken literaly. And last, but not least, there are already countless books, documents, etc. trying to do just that.

You could try if you wanted to devote your entire life to it though...

It's been an interesting read...

Personally I believe that you need more faith to believe God doesn't exist! I mean what are the chances of life just exploding out of absolutley nothing?!?! Incredible... And what of evolution, I can understand micro-evolution slight adaptations to surroundings but to think my ansestors were swinging about in trees? I mean how did the fish get up there in the first place?! It all seems a bit too far fetched to have happened for no particular reason.

However, everyone has their own opinions and I respect that as I hope they respect mine...
And what are the chances that 'gods' could exist? Wow! No evidence, ever... so the chances must be infinitesimally small.

And - even if gods could exist - what are the chances that only ONE god would exist? Wow. The odds are even lower!

And - if there was only one god... what are the chances that the bible (hardly the first religious document) would be the one to 'get it right'?

Appealing to probability is a logical fallacy, my friend.