NationStates Jolt Archive

As everyone in Australia, Turkey and New Zealand know Monday is ANZAC day. For those of you who have no idea what it is I'm not going to explain, it would take too long to explain the impact it has on me and many others.

Firstly Howard asked the Turks to build a road so our nationals can come and visit this sacred site, but then he complains about how it is being done. Be thankful that they did as you asked, they were under no obligation to do so.

Now for the first time no Australian representitive will attend the New Zealand service. At almost all previous ANZAC day ceremonies the Prime Minister has been in attendance in comiserating with the Kiwis, now no one. Where have we gone wrong? This is a terrible day for trans-Tasman relations, it is a day that shames my beloved country. It shows a total disrespect for our long time friends and brothers in New Zealand and the sad thing is Australia is to blame.

There is no New Zealand content is shown on Australian TV (with the exception of Kiwis on "Who wants to be a millionare?"), but we stuff our rubbish onto their screens. No wonder they're fed up with us, they see the worst of our culture on their screens every night! From this they notice they we almost totaly ignore them. This is not how friends act.

We are so suspicious of our neighbours now that they must carry a passport in order to be able to enter Australia, long gone are the days of open borders with New Zealand. These people had our back and we turn upon them? John Howard should not put making new friends ahead of our relations with long time ally New Zealand.

As much as the Kiwis annoy us, this is shameful.
After all it is ANZAC (NZ = New Zealand) day, not AAC day.

No. 1: The Turkish should not have built upon a sight that is sacred to 3 nations, because our dead are buried there and are actually digging up bones as they go along.

No. 2: The New Zealnd Prime Minister actually banned the music of John Farnham(I know he's not good, but it's principle) at the New Zealand service saying it is "not in the spirit of the ANZAC tradition.

No. 3: I am an Australian and have nothing against New Zealand. Besides, the many Aussie Hollywood personalities are, in fact, born in New Zealand.

Ex. Russell Crowe

Finally, no offence buddy, but New Zealand sent troops to Iraq as well.

Yea that all kind of sucks, guess thats why i didnt vote for old howey.
But i guess this is all following in his tradition of degrading relations with the rest of Asia (if NZ is part of asia?) i mean, why wouldnt you sign a non-aggression pact with the other asian nations?
Australia really needs maybe another political party or all the parties have massive reforms or something like that, because right now i dont think any of them should be in charge.

It's just hit ANZAC day.


Open borders sounds like a good idea ^^

Being a NZer I think that Howard should be here, as ANZAC day should be about strengthening ties between NZ and Aussie, but this is just a continuation of Australia walking all over us.
Examples of us getting screwed is the whole NZer goes to aussie and has no public medical cover (for injury we have to pay for any hospital care unless we have private insurance) and we cant go on the benefit for cant remember how long, is about 12 or 24 months or something, whereas an aussie who comes here has full medical cover (by ACC) and could go straight on the benefit if they want.

Personally I lost all respect that I had for helen clarke (although I never really liked her) when she agreed to that

who cares about visiting anzac services, its not as if they are alive to be honoured.

and as for ACC, i thikn that it should cover injuries in any country, the government still gets our money, why does it matter where they pay doctors.
wolud it really matter if i went up to auckland and instead of paying doctors in christchurch or ashburton, they pay doctors in auckland.

No. 2: The New Zealnd Prime Minister actually banned the music of John Farnham(I know he's not good, but it's principle) at the New Zealand service saying it is "not in the spirit of the ANZAC tradition.

I can agree with a lack of John Farnham, I don't think it is appropiate to turn it into a pop culture event.

Here it's just turned 12, which means it's officially ANZAC day, and I have say more than utter dislike I have of Howard (who is going to a BBQ rather than show solidarity for the Kiwis who died alongside the Aussies in WWI, WWII, the Malayan emergency and the Vietnam war, as well as supporting and working alongside them in East Timor, Afghanistan and Iraq) is my contempt for Helen Clark (who is still going along to the Aussie remembrance service) not to have kicked up any fuss over this. It's shameful on both on them. More on Howard though.
Has he made any statement as to why?

No. 2: The New Zealnd Prime Minister actually banned the music of John Farnham(I know he's not good, but it's principle) at the New Zealand service saying it is "not in the spirit of the ANZAC tradition.

Actually I think the music of John Farnham should just be banned. Anywhere, for any reason. Full stop.

Thats messed up, as an Australian I will be honouring all ANZACS later this morning when I get over my hangover

hope the mods will pardon my use of expletives, but i feel that one is necessary.
This is a fucking disgrace.

A bit more background on all of this would be most helpful to us uninformed Americans. :)

A bit more background on all of this would be most helpful to us uninformed Americans. :)

Clicky. (http://www.google.se/search?q=anzac&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

A bit more background on all of this would be most helpful to us uninformed Americans. :)
for a start ANZACS

Australian
New
Zealand
Army
Corps

we have a national holiday today to honour those who have fought for us, if anyone is dishonoured I will be pissed off, as im sure you would be.

something equilvent to veterans day

I'm probably going to get beaten to this, but here goes anyway-

At dawn, 25th April 1915, ANZAC (Australia/New Zealand) army corps landed at Anzac Cove in Gallipoli, with the intent of breaking through Turkish lines and advancing on Constantinople. But, to cut a long story short, the ANZACs were absolutely annihilated by Turkish machine gun fire, and withdrew after defending the beach for months. Every year on Anzac Day the Turks hold a rememberance ceremony at Anzac Cove, and they've just finished building a road through part of the battle site, which a lot of people object to. Usually, the Australian Prime Minister is in attendance, but this year, he's left the NZ PM to her own devices and decided not to attend.

I'm probably going to get beaten to this, but here goes anyway-

At dawn, 25th April 1915, ANZAC (Australia/New Zealand) army corps landed at Anzac Cove in Gallipoli, with the intent of breaking through Turkish lines and advancing on Constantinople. But, to cut a long story short, the ANZACs were absolutely annihilated by Turkish machine gun fire, and withdrew after defending the beach for months. Every year on Anzac Day the Turks hold a rememberance ceremony at Anzac Cove, and they've just finished building a road through part of the battle site, which a lot of people object to. Usually, the Australian Prime Minister is in attendance, but this year, he's left the NZ PM to her own devices and decided not to attend.
I think your safe, say what you want about our PM but if you bad mouth the ANZAC's then im gonna be pissed and hunt you down :)

my great grandfather was an ANZAC, my Grandfather is a Vietnam vet, my father served in East Timor and the solomon islands, my two cousins are currently in Iraq, my uncle served in the first gulf war, and i'm a Private in the local army reserve regiment. Trust me, i'm not planning on bad mouthing them. And if that's how it sounded, i apologize in advance :)

my great grandfather was an ANZAC, my Grandfather is a Vietnam vet, my father served in East Timor and the solomon islands, my two cousins are currently in Iraq, my uncle served in the first gulf war, and i'm a Private in the local army reserve regiment. Trust me, i'm not planning on bad mouthing them. And if that's how it sounded, i apologize in advance :)
Thats okay then :)
I apologise for the attack but im alittle drunk and this is something I feel very strongly about, im thinking of joining the reserves at the end of the year

Thats okat then :)
I apologise for the attack but im alittle drunk and this is something I feel very strongly about, im thinking of joining the reserves at the end of the year

that's ok :)

you should definately join the reserves. It's awesome fun and the pay is great, too :)

that's ok :)

you should definately join the reserves. It's awesome fun and the pay is great, too :)
I probably will if im guaranteed to be posted here in SA (probably Edinbrough) and if I can get through the medical, concidering I have SVT (not sure if I should even tell them about it) me and a mate from work are pretty determinded to join

I probably will if im guaranteed to be posted here in SA (probably Edinbrough) and if I can get through the medical, concidering I have SVT (not sure if I should even tell them about it) me and a mate from work are pretty determinded to join

If you don't tell them about the SVT, they'll never know, will they? ;)
As long as you've got an IQ over about 40, and know how to follow orders, you're pretty much guaranteed to get in.

something equilvent to veterans day

More like veterans day, 4th of July and an international non-religious holy day all rolled into one.

In his defence he wanted to honour someone who has been cleaning Aussie graves but he could have done this after making an appearance at the NZ ceremony.

Made you New Zealand didnt lay a Wreath at the Sydney Ceremony(im not sure if we should- i didnt see Australia lay one in Wellington?)

In his defence he wanted to honour someone who has been cleaning Aussie graves but he could have done this after making an appearance at the NZ ceremony.

Made you New Zealand didnt lay a Wreath at the Sydney Ceremony(im not sure if we should- i didnt see Australia lay one in Wellington?)

Either way I think Australia is not being a good friend, brother and neighbour to the NZ allies.

Meanwhile why did NZ not get a free trade agreement with the US? They sent troops to Iraq, did you get a diffrent bribe to us?

It is well known John Howard is a Brown Nosed Gnome!

I actually bought a book from Readers Diagest about 3 weeks ago and as i expected the majority of it is Australian even though it was advertised as NZ and OZ the content is so slim on NZ its disapointing.

I was surprised by the coverage on Sky Australia this morning no mention of New Zealand was made in relation to fighting by the reporters(well i didnt see any)

But a War Veteran did mention us and said we got the furthest inland bar the original charge by small bands of Aussie forces on the first day that got easily picked off after the original break out!

Meanwhile why did NZ not get a free trade agreement with the US? They sent troops to Iraq, did you get a diffrent bribe to us?
Ah but we only sent them as part of the UN to rebuild the local communities not to stick our heads out and get shot up!
Funny story
The Libs here were protesting our involvment in Iraq when the Invasion first started because we had a Frigate(1 of 3)in the Persian Gulf.
But the thing is we had been inspecting goods going in and out of Iraq for the UN and also on Anti-Terrorist duties our actual involvment in Iraq was nil at that point.

Ah but we only sent them as part of the UN to rebuild the local communities not to stick our heads out and get shot up!
Funny story
The Libs here were protesting our involvment in Iraq when the Invasion first started because we had a Frigate(1 of 3)in the Persian Gulf.
But the thing is we had been inspecting goods going in and out of Iraq for the UN and also on Anti-Terrorist duties our actual involvment in Iraq was nil at that point.

Are the libs in your country left or right? :confused:

who cares about visiting anzac services, its not as if they are alive to be honoured.

I know a large number of people who would be deeply insulted by this comment.

I'm one of them.

And no, I'm not going to explain why; it's one of those things that if you can ask the question, you won't understand the answer.

But back to topic; yes, it is disgraceful. The government should stop taking New Zealand for granted; we're supposed to be partners and friends, not overlord and vassal.

On the one hand it's crappy. But on the other there's John Stewart. And he's right. "New Zealand is Australia's own personal Canada." So a certain amount of dissing has to be expected. New Zealand can always cling to their entertainment lead.

Are the libs in your country left or right? :confused:
Probably left mind you they argue for the sake of it!
Did you read the Wiki ANZAC thingy?

Some info for the peeps!

New Zealands Population 1,000,000
1909 Territorial force was increased to 30,000
This allowed a fast movement of troops for the cause.
Although Compulsary to join it was not compulsary to serve oversea's.
But many signed up.

First involvment
SAMOA
1413 men sent to capture The German Colony of Samoa do so unopposed.

Main Body
14th of October 8427 men and 3815 Horses leave NZ to join up with Australian Contingent.
NZ composition
4 Infantry Battalions
4 Mounted Rifle Regiments
1 Field Artillary Brigade
Supporting units

25th of April
NZ forces minus Mounteds land on Gallipoli.
8 Months of fighting insues
British,French,India,SA(?)and Irish forces in South.

Aussie forces make break out and rush forward unsupported reesulting in the isolated bands being wiped out.
Of the 12,000 Aussies and 3100 NZers that first land 2,500 or so dead are recorded.
NZ has 600 Casulties more thanthose killed in 3 years of the Boer war.
Turkish counter attack repeled by Australians andWellington Battalion Commanded by LT-COL William Malone(New Zealands Officer Training School is named after him!)

Chailek Dere
Weak point that overlooks ANZAC Positions to be attacked by ANZAC troops
Otago Battalion to help OZ forces but cannot get off the beaches as they are too congested and arrive 90 minutes late.
OZ troops went any way and are decimated
Otago comes up and Turks hold fire untril Otago's are to close to miss.
Survivers hold on for 2 days.
Of the 800 Otago half are killed wounded or missing.
100 total casulties.

End of April beginig of May
8000 Anzac Casulities
14,000 Turkish

The ANZAC beaches were only to hold Turkish forces and act as a deterrent.
On the British beaches they sat on their hands waiting for reinforcements instead of pushing onto their objective oly 10km away easily takeable on the first day!
Some ANZAC forces redeployed to break out of 5 km beach head on 8th of May.Ordered to attack in early daylight they are mowed down by machine gun fire.
1000 Aussies fall in 500 meter advance.
total front line extended 800 meters over 3 days for 6000 casulties(771 NZ).
NZ 14 days on peninsula = 2000 casulties.

Turks counter Attack
Turks move 45,000 troops to ANZAC beaches as it is seen as the most vulnerable position.
Air recon spots movements and with newly arrived reinforcments 10000 Turks are casulties for the loss of 160 dead and 500 wounded.
The Defending force was only 12500 strong!
Ths action put to rest British fears that the Anzacs so bold and agressive in attack may not be so resolute in defence.

24th of May a cease fire is agreed and so the bodies which were being pile up were buried in unmarked graves.
The Australians used their Tallest soldiers in the burial party to look at turkish positions and Artillary was moved for fear that the Turks had seen them-The following morning those old positions were shelled!

ANZAC Trench renamed Quinn's Post after being extended and renamed by Captain H Quinn.
It was only meters away from the Turkish trench and constantly under the threat of being over run.

Aussies develop Periscope Rifle allowing offensive defense without defenders showing themselves above trenches.
Malone arrives at Quinn's and increases this.
"Malone's arrival marked a complete change in the conditions bnoth at Courtneys and at Quinn's.A man of powerful will and of especial directness and simplicity,he enforced a strict orderliness,however great the effort needed to attain to it."

MAlone tidied up the trench system paneling it creating wire to catch Turkish Grenades and Bombs having a slopped Terrace behind the trench to act as a rest area and increased Sniper activity.

August 6 Line Pine
100,000 new troops arrive and Aussies are used as a diversion at lone pine losing 2000 casulities Turks lose 7000 7 VC are awarded including one to a NZ born.

NZ Rifles clear path to Chailak Dere Maori participate in fighting.
Malone says something along these lines
"We had to wait for the Maori to come back down they looked so alike to the turks it would have been laughable if the situation wasnt so serious!"

Malone's Battalion charges Chunuk Bair to be supported by 7th Glouchesters and 8th Welsh and the Auckland Battalion followed by rest of NZ Brigade

7th and 8th act like cowards forcing an extension of the Wellingtons line to take up the slack from the cowardly British!
Wellingtons take the position from light Turkish defence but without the British who had ran down the hill the position it is hard held only by continous Bayonet and shovel attacks.

Howards a chump anyway. I'm not surprised that this is the kind of thing he would do.

who cares about visiting anzac services, its not as if they are alive to be honoured.

Quite a few people care. The ANZAC event I went to yesterday was so packed you couldn't get in the door.

its too bad about all of this... although I am an American I am well aware of the sacrifice that Australian and New Zealand troops were asked to endure at Gallipoli, and elsewhere (France, Belgium, Palestine, Syria to name most of the big battles, not to mention the various wars since). I always thought that ANZAC Day was damned near sacred down under. What happened?

Leave it to politicians to muck things up.

They do it here to though. Must be a universal characteristic of politicians.

Ah but we only sent them as part of the UN to rebuild the local communities not to stick our heads out and get shot up!
Funny story
The Libs here were protesting our involvment in Iraq when the Invasion first started because we had a Frigate(1 of 3)in the Persian Gulf.
But the thing is we had been inspecting goods going in and out of Iraq for the UN and also on Anti-Terrorist duties our actual involvment in Iraq was nil at that point.

we're actually down to 2 now, the HMNZS canterbury got decommissioned recently

Sorry New Zealand. We don't all think like Howard... :(

My father was a 20 year career soldier who did two tours of Vietnam so I grew up an army brat and had the ANZAC traditions very firmly ingrained into me.

To be honest I don't really care if the politicians go to each others events or not. They aren't the important ones. The veterans are. I know my father never gave a tinkers what the pollies did or had to say on ANZAC day. As long as his mates turned up for the dawn service and the march, and he could spend the afternoon in the RSL with them catching up on their family news and reliving the past he was a happy man. The Aussie veterans know the New Zealanders were there by their side and appreciated every second of it. That all that counts in the end.

its too bad about all of this... although I am an American I am well aware of the sacrifice that Australian and New Zealand troops were asked to endure at Gallipoli, and elsewhere (France, Belgium, Palestine, Syria to name most of the big battles, not to mention the various wars since). I always thought that ANZAC Day was damned near sacred down under. What happened?

Leave it to politicians to muck things up.

They do it here to though. Must be a universal characteristic of politicians.

Oh, it is. Just seemingly not to Howard.

We all love Johnny Howard, when he decides to stay in America of course.

As everyone in Australia, Turkey and New Zealand know Monday is ANZAC day. For those of you who have no idea what it is I'm not going to explain, it would take too long to explain the impact it has on me and many others.

Firstly Howard asked the Turks to build a road so our nationals can come and visit this sacred site, but then he complains about how it is being done. Be thankful that they did as you asked, they were under no obligation to do so.

Now for the first time no Australian representitive will attend the New Zealand service. At almost all previous ANZAC day ceremonies the Prime Minister has been in attendance in comiserating with the Kiwis, now no one. Where have we gone wrong? This is a terrible day for trans-Tasman relations, it is a day that shames my beloved country. It shows a total disrespect for our long time friends and brothers in New Zealand and the sad thing is Australia is to blame.

There is no New Zealand content is shown on Australian TV (with the exception of Kiwis on "Who wants to be a millionare?"), but we stuff our rubbish onto their screens. No wonder they're fed up with us, they see the worst of our culture on their screens every night! From this they notice they we almost totaly ignore them. This is not how friends act.

We are so suspicious of our neighbours now that they must carry a passport in order to be able to enter Australia, long gone are the days of open borders with New Zealand. These people had our back and we turn upon them? John Howard should not put making new friends ahead of our relations with long time ally New Zealand.

And did your leader get up and come over to Australia for a service?
And wait - wasn't it New Zealand that pulled out of the ANZUS treaty - so technically Aust and NZ are not even allied any more - youve already snubbed australia

its too bad about all of this... although I am an American I am well aware of the sacrifice that Australian and New Zealand troops were asked to endure at Gallipoli, and elsewhere (France, Belgium, Palestine, Syria to name most of the big battles, not to mention the various wars since). I always thought that ANZAC Day was damned near sacred down under. What happened?

Leave it to politicians to muck things up.

They do it here to though. Must be a universal characteristic of politicians.

Its more than that - i think it seems to be an obligation they take a vow on when coming to power

And did your leader get up and come over to Australia for a service?



Helen Clark went to the australian service at Gallipoli, yes. (If that's what you're asking)

I found Howard's move deeply insulting too. Very insensitive and damaging to the already strained relationship between our two countries.

At least Kim Beazley went...

Helen Clark went to the australian service at Gallipoli, yes. (If that's what you're asking)

The original post of this topic was to complain about John Howard not going to NZ - i was wanting to know whether Helen Clark came to Australia - because im doubting she did.
Therefore i dont see what people are complaining about

And did your leader get up and come over to Australia for a service?
And wait - wasn't it New Zealand that pulled out of the ANZUS treaty - so technically Aust and NZ are not even allied any more - youve already snubbed australia

we didnt "pull out", after the anti-nuclear movement of the 70s and 80s, we declared that no nuclear power or arms could enter our country.
the yanks with their policy of 'neither confirm nor deny' were then unable to send any ships into our waters, they then decalraed that they colud no longer defend us, and ANZUS fell apart.

ANZUS was a treaty with oz, nz and usa anyway, we still have the canberra pact as well as various other treaties regarding collective security for the south pacific.

and its a good thing that ANZUS did crumble, because otherwise we would b over in iraq right now supporting those terrorist bastard yanks.

EDIT: another ocntributing factor in the demise of ANZUS was that tha yanks believed it te be an alliance against communism (whcih was how we got dragged into vietnam as capitalist pigs). while new zealand and australia saw it as a means of ensuring safety in the pacific, specifically in regards to japanese resurgence

The original post of this topic was to complain about John Howard not going to NZ - i was wanting to know whether Helen Clark came to Australia - because im doubting she did.
Therefore i dont see what people are complaining about

No, the origional post (amoungst other complaints) was mainly about howard choosing to go to a bbq over the New Zealand service, which is held at Chunuk Bair on the Gallipoli peninsula in Turkey. The story is here. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3258701a11,00.html)

And did your leader get up and come over to Australia for a service? ...snip... youve already snubbed australia

I am an Australian, my 'leader' is John Howard but no, he did not come here for a service. He went from Iraq to Turkey, which is understandable because he wouldn't make it home and then to Turkey for the Dawn Service. Not to attend or have a representitive at the New Zealand service in Gallipoli, while he is there in Gallipoli just seems shameful. As an Australia I am sorry if that sentiment of mateship somehow snubs Australia.

I am an Australian, my 'leader' is John Howard but no, he did not come here for a service. He went from Iraq to Turkey, which is understandable because he wouldn't make it home and then to Turkey for the Dawn Service. Not to attend or have a representitive at the New Zealand service in Gallipoli, while he is there in Gallipoli just seems shameful. As an Australia I am sorry if that sentiment of mateship somehow snubs Australia.

My mistake - I didnt read the whole thing properly till now - that was pretty rude of Johny

My mistake - I didnt read the whole thing properly till now - that was pretty rude of Johny

He upsets everyone ... except the USA.

My mistake - I didnt read the whole thing properly till now - that was pretty rude of Johny

OK, no problems. Glad it's all sorted. :)

No Australian went to New Zealand for a service either, however their Prime Minister did come to our service in Gallipoli. Once again you misunderstand me, I am not saying John Howard going to Gallipoli was snubbing the Kiwis, I am trying to say that leaving before New Zealand had conducted its ceremony to have a BBQ is snobbing them. He was already there, but he choose not to attend. If you don't agree then we shall just have to agree to disagree.

It's strange 'cos I thought if anybody was going to a BBQ, it would have been Beazley.

we didnt "pull out", after the anti-nuclear movement of the 70s and 80s, we declared that no nuclear power or arms could enter our country.
the yanks with their policy of 'neither confirm nor deny' were then unable to send any ships into our waters, they then decalraed that they colud no longer defend us, and ANZUS fell apart.

ANZUS was a treaty with oz, nz and usa anyway, we still have the canberra pact as well as various other treaties regarding collective security for the south pacific.

and its a good thing that ANZUS did crumble, because otherwise we would b over in iraq right now supporting those terrorist bastard yanks.

EDIT: another ocntributing factor in the demise of ANZUS was that tha yanks believed it te be an alliance against communism (whcih was how we got dragged into vietnam as capitalist pigs). while new zealand and australia saw it as a means of ensuring safety in the pacific, specifically in regards to japanese resurgence

a few things.... first, there are New Zealanders in Iraq serving alongside Australian forces. Secondly, New Zealanders were in Vietnam under the auspices of the SEATO (South East Asian Treaty Organization) ... that organization collapsed after the end of Vietnam and was replaced by ASEAN (which I don't believe includes Australia or New Zealand or the US).

although a bit inflammatory, otherwise you have a point. The post war ANZUS treaty was an outgrowth of the US / New Zealand / Australian alliance in World War II and the observation that the Australians and New Zealanders made that the Brits weren't doing a very good job defending them.

As everyone in Australia, Turkey and New Zealand know Monday is ANZAC day. For those of you who have no idea what it is I'm not going to explain, it would take too long to explain the impact it has on me and many others.

Firstly Howard asked the Turks to build a road so our nationals can come and visit this sacred site, but then he complains about how it is being done. Be thankful that they did as you asked, they were under no obligation to do so.

Now for the first time no Australian representitive will attend the New Zealand service. At almost all previous ANZAC day ceremonies the Prime Minister has been in attendance in comiserating with the Kiwis, now no one. Where have we gone wrong? This is a terrible day for trans-Tasman relations, it is a day that shames my beloved country. It shows a total disrespect for our long time friends and brothers in New Zealand and the sad thing is Australia is to blame.

There is no New Zealand content is shown on Australian TV (with the exception of Kiwis on "Who wants to be a millionare?"), but we stuff our rubbish onto their screens. No wonder they're fed up with us, they see the worst of our culture on their screens every night! From this they notice they we almost totaly ignore them. This is not how friends act.

We are so suspicious of our neighbours now that they must carry a passport in order to be able to enter Australia, long gone are the days of open borders with New Zealand. These people had our back and we turn upon them? John Howard should not put making new friends ahead of our relations with long time ally New Zealand.

John Howard didn't complain about how the road was being built although everyone else did, few australians even knew he had asked for it to happen until some aussie pointed it out.

Also both the Australian and NZ PM's went to ANZAC Cove for ANZAC day so to say we aren't comiserating together is stupid.

Don't get me wrong my two fav countries other than australia is NZ and UK.

Basically your making something out of nothing I mean the NZ's wouldn't let us have John Farnham sing there and they had to put up with the fricken BEEGEE's instead.

Basically your making something out of nothing...

You could be right, I could be over reacting. However, even if I am over reacting I find this a disturbing symptom of a larger problem.

You could be right, I could be over reacting. However, even if I am over reacting I find this a disturbing symptom of a larger problem.

I find it very disturbing, even though I really know nothing about it.

I heard that Johnny was pre-occupied with flicking his light switch and couldn't make it to the New Zealand ceremony. Oh well, at least his priorities are sorted out.