NationStates Jolt Archive

A friend and I are writing a short book entitled: The Passion or the Pride (subtitled 'Revision'). It shows the dangers of ideology.
Story: Rainer Stolz, a young neo-nazi, quickly takes control of the remnants of the movement in his gang-rittled city. He shoots the Chairman, the former head, and with his right-hand man, nick named Wagner, begin to take over portions of the city. He wants to bring back what he calls "Proud Germany" in an attempt to make a "revision in history" by creating a Fourth Reich. If you look carefully its an allegory about World War II. Rainer wants to spread his ideology and the people, blindly accepting his empty promises, join him.
I am having trouble however, my co-writer wants at least one character to have compassion for the victims. I want them to be either blind puppets or sadistic tacticians. This is a tricky area and I am not surw which way to call it. What would you suggest?
I would post part of the story but its not appropriate. Thanks.

well, if your going to show the dangers of ideology as you said you are, the best rout would be to make everyone under Stolz a blind puppet. In this rout you can more accuratelly show what happens for those who follow an ideology without questioning it

having the lead character, Rainer, show, just once, compassion for his victims would be an interesting twist you could exploit.
alternatively give one of the minor characters the compassion and have the lead kill him for it - it'd make Rainer even more of a 'sadistic tactician' ;)

Definitely have somebody with different ideas, if not a complete opposite. It will give the story tension and dramatism. If every one thinks the same things or along the same lines, there will be not much conflict.

Think about incorporating that character as a different POV.

I'd have to disagree with having Rainer show compassion. If he's trying to set up a third reich, and has already killed his right hand man, compassion would be completelly against his character

Definitely have somebody with different ideas, if not a complete opposite. It will give the story tension and dramatism. If every one thinks the same things or along the same lines, there will be not much conflict.

Think about incorporating that character as a different POV.
^ what s/he said.

Wow, that's telling.

in a short story i dont see that you have room for the compassion angle. in a novel it would make a good subplot.

I'd have to disagree with having Rainer show compassion. If he's trying to set up a third reich, and has already killed his right hand man, compassion would be completelly against his character
I have one scene in my head. In a torture chamber. He sees someone being drilled in the head with an electric screw driver. The victim looks at Rainer with painful eyes. Rainer points the gun at the victims head and asks, "If he dies, it will be one less of his kind, ja?" He then puts the gun back in its holster and chuckles while his aides give a grim look of compliance. In the end he shoots himself, granting himself the coutesy of a swift death. Something he never granted anybody. Wagner is meant to be a sort of Eichmann, yet you can't help but pity him when he is killed. Rainer's lover, Anne, is a female version of Rudolph Hoess, except she doesn't know what she is doing. She only plans it in ignorant glee.

I suppose a compassionate character could show that some people who would otherwise be moderate can be swept up in ideology given enough propaganda and peer pressure. I'd think that people that would have compassion for a victim of theirs would have been common in the third reich.

I suppose a compassionate character could show that some people who would otherwise be moderate can be swept up in ideology given enough propaganda and peer pressure. I'd think that people that would have compassion for a victim of theirs would have been common in the third reich.
I am not sure if it should be a main character or a minor one.

If you want some of the story I could TG it to you.

I am not sure if it should be a main character or a minor one.

A minor character might get your point across more effectively. You wouldn't expect the leader of an extreme movement to have much compassion for his victims.

And I wouldn't mind seeing the story.

Well, this isn't a question of how to develop characters, it is a question of what characters to develop. Anyways.
Major pro4th character:
Pros - None
Cons - Seems unrealistic, and won't be long lived.
Minor pro4th character:
(By Major/Minor I mean involvement in 4th, not magor minor in amount of time)
Pros- Can live for a long time, has good reason to be compassionate (or at least think about it.) and it seems realistic. Can be killed off to make the reader hate mr 4th.
Minor opposer
Defeats purpose.

one small piece of advice from an older wiser person


DONT TURN THIS IN AS AN ENGLISH ASSIGNMENT



just trust me on this one.

one small piece of advice from an older wiser person


DONT TURN THIS IN AS AN ENGLISH ASSIGNMENT



just trust me on this one.
I won't. My friend and I are writing it in hopes of later publishing it.

Make the character EAT his victims, while grieving over their deaths (which he caused). Be sure to describe the stench of the moist, rotting flesh that fills his nostrils as he nibbles on a man's severed ear.

First... what's the conflict.
1) Man vs Man: who is the Protagonist, who is the Antagonist.
2) Man vs Nature: don't really see that here...
3) Man vs Himself: will he turn from his Neo-Nazi ways?

1) have his right hand man. a young genus actually be working against him. plotting his overthrow by slowy sugjugating and coercing his underlings. Now this underling can actually be Anti-Nazi or whatever they're called.

2) Unless you can show how his ideals can be wrong in a catacltysm... say, a citywide fire that leaves everthing he loves dependant on those who don't follow his ideals.. nah, not really.

3) He is forced to shoot his love interest when it's shown that she is an enemy... thus forcing him to question the path he walks. infact, he could start to change the government and if/when he fails, the suicide can be his way of Attoning for all of his crimes.

Second. is there a lession and how does he learn it.

Third. Every hero has a trial... a tempering so to speak. what is his?

too hackneyed. it should have a morbid ending and he should eat people like I said.

First... what's the conflict.
1) Man vs Man: who is the Protagonist, who is the Antagonist.
2) Man vs Nature: don't really see that here...
3) Man vs Himself: will he turn from his Neo-Nazi ways?

1) have his right hand man. a young genus actually be working against him. plotting his overthrow by slowy sugjugating and coercing his underlings. Now this underling can actually be Anti-Nazi or whatever they're called.

2) Unless you can show how his ideals can be wrong in a catacltysm... say, a citywide fire that leaves everthing he loves dependant on those who don't follow his ideals.. nah, not really.

3) He is forced to shoot his love interest when it's shown that she is an enemy... thus forcing him to question the path he walks. infact, he could start to change the government and if/when he fails, the suicide can be his way of Attoning for all of his crimes.

As for the trial, the main character wants control over the city, to unite it and create a Fourth Reich. He has no humane qualities.

Second. is there a lession and how does he learn it.

Third. Every hero has a trial... a tempering so to speak. what is his?
Man vs Man: The neo-nazis VS the other gangs
Man vs Self: the people accepting the ideology

I wouldn't say protaganist, but maybe he is a sort of anti-hero. His right-hand man took him to his first nazi meeting, though main character was already well-educated in te subject. I was going to have the main character shoot his love interest during the final battle.

Sigh... ok fine New Genoa... just for you...

First... what's the conflict.
1) Man vs Man: who is the Protagonist, who is the Antagonist.
2) Man vs Nature: don't really see that here...
3) Man vs Himself: will he turn from his Neo-Nazi ways?

1) have his right hand man. a young genus actually be working against him. plotting his overthrow by slowy sugjugating and coercing his underlings. Now this underling can actually be Anti-Nazi or whatever they're called. In the end, he stops the overthrow and eats the rebels.

2) Unless you can show how his ideals can be wrong in a catacltysm... say, a citywide fire that leaves everthing he loves dependant on those who don't follow his ideals and to survive, he eats everyone ... nah, not really.

3) He is forced to shoot his love interest when it's shown that she is an enemy... thus forcing him to question the path he walks. infact, he could start to change the government and if/when he fails, the suicide can be his way of Attoning for all of his crimes. but not before he eats her dead body, the commander who forced him to shoot her, the Guard who gave him the gun he used to shoot her and the Commanders Dog as well... oh and he dies not by shooting himself, but of chronic indigestion.

Second. is there a lession and how does he learn it. you know... like Ketchup is better than Tobasco or something.

Third. Every hero has a trial... a tempering so to speak. what is his? maybe, he's out of barbeque sause or something.

Sounds innovative and revolutionary. I commend you. However, now that I see its potential success, I'm claiming copyright to it. You may claim copyleft though.

Sounds innovative and revolutionary. I commend you. However, now that I see its potential success, I'm claiming copyright to it. You may claim copyleft though.Nah... I perfer CopyCenter...

ohhh...Kinkos... :D

This reminds me of the lead up to 1984. I like the premise of your novel, but I am going to have hard times distinguishing them from 1984. Somebody, previously mentioned having characters with strong opposite views, I like that idea.

Man vs Man: The neo-nazis VS the other gangs
Man vs Self: the people accepting the ideology

I wouldn't say protaganist, but maybe he is a sort of anti-hero. His right-hand man took him to his first nazi meeting, though main character was already well-educated in te subject. I was going to have the main character shoot his love interest during the final battle.
you should watch Legends of the Galatic Heroes... great Anime series.

basically you have two Star Civilizations, one Emprical, the other Democratic/Republic. and you watch them slowly switch from one to the other.
The Empirical one becomes a Republic while the Republic become Monachial/Dictatorial.

100 + episodes. Space Opera at it's finest.

Nah... I perfer CopyCenter...

ohhh...Kinkos... :D
You seem like a writer of sorts. Want to join in on the book?

This reminds me of the lead up to 1984. I like the premise of your novel, but I am going to have hard times distinguishing them from 1984. Somebody, previously mentioned having characters with strong opposite views, I like that idea.
He doesn't expand it past a few miles or so because the other factions finally take over his territory and he kills himself in his bunker. Like I said its an allegory about World War II.

You seem like a writer of sorts. Want to join in on the book?
I dabble... nothing really serious. but this is your baby... I'll help but more as an Idea man so not really worthy of a tagline.

I dabble... nothing really serious. but this is your baby... I'll help but more as an Idea man so not really worthy of a tagline.
Okay. I have written short stories, but this will be my little gem.

bump