NationStates Jolt Archive

Then how, for those of you who want to expand gov't power for w/e reason, prevent corruption in the system? I understand that these government powers may be a legitimate function, but I thought I'd raise this conundrum for discussion.....

Then how, for those of you who want to expand gov't power for w/e reason, prevent corruption in the system? I understand that these government powers may be a legitimate function, but I thought I'd raise this conundrum for discussion.....

By lot, like was done in Athens, and the other Greek city states. With an effective civil service which understood the system, and was rotated throughout each office to prevent them ever becoming entrenched in their office.

1) Eliminate private funds from election campaigns.

2) Pass strong ethics laws with stiff mandatory penalties.

3) Maintain politically independant courts that can bring corrupt politicians to trial.

in a country the size of the US or the UK corruption is unavoidable no matter how "small" you make the government. with that many people, there can be no small govt. all you can do is beat it back when it gets out of hand, not unlike crabgrass in your lawn.

strong anti-corruption laws are a must. clear rules as to what is and is not allowed. anti-corruption committees and courts that are not dependant on the good will of those they are investigating or prosecuting

but the biggest check is a bitterly contentious party system where it is to the "other" side's best interest to rat out corrupt politicians and bureaucrats. as in the democrats yapping at tom delays heels.

Then how, for those of you who want to expand gov't power for w/e reason, prevent corruption in the system? I understand that these government powers may be a legitimate function, but I thought I'd raise this conundrum for discussion.....

because giving freedoms to people is allowing them to do corrupt things, but someone's already said that.

but the biggest check is a bitterly contentious party system where it is to the "other" side's best interest to rat out corrupt politicians and bureaucrats. as in the democrats yapping at tom delays heels.
Bullshit, that's far from the reason they're after him and you know it. At least half of the politicians at that level on both sides routinely accept shit like that. It's a distraction tactic, nothing more. Without it, they would have to face both the judicial nominations and the soc. sec. mess.

I have a better question:

If knowledge is power, and power is inherently corrupting, does knowledge then corrupt, and if so then to what degree? The sheer numbers of pedants and dilletantes out there would suggest that the pursuit of knowledge leads many people astray.
And if knowledge does corrupt, how then is one to achieve wisdom? For knowledge is a necessary and undeniable prerequisite to becoming wiser. When what you learn becomes a liability, how can you turn it to virtue?

Bullshit, that's far from the reason they're after him and you know it. At least half of the politicians at that level on both sides routinely accept shit like that. It's a distraction tactic, nothing more. Without it, they would have to face both the judicial nominations and the soc. sec. mess.
DUH of course they dont give a rats ass about corruption. they want to get tom delay because he's a powerful man on the other side. if he were a democrat they would embrace him.

the POINT is that ethics rules give them a way to get tom delay and the by-product of that is that more government officials decide to cut back on their own corrupt practices so they dont get caught the same way. if we are lucky, there will be a free-for-all attack on every ethics violation of every member of congress until every last one of the ratbastards have to pay the price for it.

Hah, keep dreaming.

1) Eliminate private funds from election campaigns.

2) Pass strong ethics laws with stiff mandatory penalties.

3) Maintain politically independant courts that can bring corrupt politicians to trial.

I have to believe that you were reactionary when you posted this and did not place much thought into your responses. Maybe you'd like to clear them up a bit.

1) Eliminate private funds from election campaigns.
Without private funds all you'd have is government funds - and whoever controls the government would control the funds. That would be a dumb idea for someone wantong to limit corruption.

2) Pass strong ethics laws with stiff mandatory penalties.
Laws don't prevent crime, the enforcement of laws does. Passing more and more laws is only lipservice and only mucks up the enforcement of them.


3) Maintain politically independant courts that can bring corrupt politicians to trial.
Unless, of course, those same courts were just as corrupt as the politicians. Just being a judge does not bestow political independance to someone. Given the fact that a judge is appointed for life there is even more potential for corruption and disregard for law and procedure. Giving them all the power with no checks and balance would be foolhardy.

Of course governments are corrupt. What did you expect?

Of course governments are corrupt. What did you expect?
Enlightened indivudals that work for the greater good of a country after rationally discussing the best course of action?

Institute an oligarchy. As long as there's not a single individual holding the reins of power, you should be able to avoid the worst excesses of its abuse.

Or, in other words: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Ensure that no individual has absolute power.

Institute an oligarchy. As long as there's not a single individual holding the reins of power, you should be able to avoid the worst excesses of its abuse.

Or, in other words: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Ensure that no individual has absolute power.
Or is it that the corrupt are attracted by power?

I have a better question:

If knowledge is power, and power is inherently corrupting, does knowledge then corrupt, and if so then to what degree? The sheer numbers of pedants and dilletantes out there would suggest that the pursuit of knowledge leads many people astray.
And if knowledge does corrupt, how then is one to achieve wisdom? For knowledge is a necessary and undeniable prerequisite to becoming wiser. When what you learn becomes a liability, how can you turn it to virtue?

A fine question, worthy of a thread of its own.

Perhaps power does not corrupt by itself?

Also, who sez you can not be wise and corrupt?

Institute an oligarchy. As long as there's not a single individual holding the reins of power, you should be able to avoid the worst excesses of its abuse.

Or, in other words: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Ensure that no individual has absolute power.

Where does that leave God? Blasphemy!

1) Eliminate private funds from election campaigns.

2) Pass strong ethics laws with stiff mandatory penalties.

3) Maintain politically independant courts that can bring corrupt politicians to trial.

You're asking the impossible with no. 3, here.