NationStates Jolt Archive

In the next part of my series of threads on genocides (previous two have been on Ireland and Japan), I now ask the question, who was worst out the two nastiest totallitarian dictators of the 20th Century?

Hitler, by a small amount. He both embarked on a program of genocide and was responsible for the outbreak of a war that killed tens of millions of people, so he wins. Plus, in terms of sheer sadism I'd say he wins, barely. Stalin killed more, however, so this must also be considered.

I think you're both forgetting about Mao Zedong. He killed more people than both Stalin and Hitler

god dammit that's a deceptively hard question. i'm going with stalin, tho. he was slightly more deceptively prickish.

Stalin once mused "To kill one is a tragedy, to kill a million is a statistic."

Stalin's Russia victimized thousands more of her own people than Germany did the people of The Third Reich and her conquered countries.

Though Hitlers Germany spread his idealology of hate throughout most of Europe and victimized his people as well as the people of other nations and cultures. Leaving behind a legacy of anti-semitism and racism.

Both Dictators deserve to burn in eternal flame, you can hardly say one is worse than the other.

Hitler, by a tiny, tiny bit.

Hitler, by a small amount. He both embarked on a program of genocide and was responsible for the outbreak of a war that killed tens of millions of people, so he wins. Plus, in terms of sheer sadism I'd say he wins, barely. Stalin killed more, however, so this must also be considered.
http://www.solargeneral.com/library/105HolocaustQuestions.pdf

Hmm... I answer the poll question and the results are tied... 6-6-6.

Seems appropriate.

Well my own opinion is that Stalin was worse, escpecially in terms of death tolls. Some estimates say that by the time he had died 20 million Russians had been killed and 1/5 of the Russian population was in prison.

Feh, Mao is much worse than either of those two

Stalin caused more deaths, though i don't think he 'order' as many people to be executed. Hitler was also the leader of a vile racist ideology.

I would say Hitler is the worst, but both men are terrible.

I think you're both forgetting about Mao Zedong. He killed more people than both Stalin and Hitler
Really? Possibly, but through less direct methods. Stalin and Hitler actually deliberately killed more by death camps and genocide, Mao killed more people as a (presumably accidental) side effect of his horrible national agricultural policies.

It's a tough call .. I guess by a margin Hitler, but they were both awful.

It depends on who you are. If you're a jew or anything else the Nazis hated, the answer is obvious. But if you're a white man that the Nazis probably wouldn't discriminate against, you probably stood a greater risk of being killed at random by Lenin than by Hitler. The Nazis disposed of their prisoners more horrifically, but Lenin killed a big heap of people himself.

I think they were both genocidal scumbags and both as bad as each other. Stalin did kill more but he had more time in power than Hitler (I think).

Compared to Stalin and Mao, Hitler wasn't that bad.

That's my opinion anyway.

Hitler was still a fascist pig though. And Stalin and Mao definitely didn't get Communism right.

Stalin caused more deaths, though i don't think he 'order' as many people to be executed. Hitler was also the leader of a vile racist ideology.

I would say Hitler is the worst, but both men are terrible.

By most modern standards, Stalin was an anti semite. He feared Jewish zionism just as much as Hitler did, especially towards the ends of his life. Indeed recently released files from the Russian government show that Stalin was actually planning to unleash a Terror specifically against the Jewish population just before he died. Indeed the Doctors Plot and the Leningrad Case were both actions taken against Jews (the Leningraders had written to him to suggest that the Crimea be given to the Jews as their home land). Paulina Molotova, the Jewish wife of Stalin's longest standing magnate and comrade, was arrested by Stalin because she was Jewish.

Stalin also took actions against certain classes and nationalities. During the first decade of his reign, much of his time was spent with the elimination of the kulak class - the prosperous business farmers. He also unleashed several specific terrors against the Ukrainains and the Georgians (the region he was from ironically) because they were non Russian.

In the next part of my series of threads on genocides (previous two have been on Ireland and Japan), I now ask the question, who was worst out the two nastiest totallitarian dictators of the 20th Century?

ARE YOU CRAZY! stalin was one of the best leaders that ever lived!

ARE YOU CRAZY! stalin was one of the best leaders that ever lived!

Yeah....tell that to the 10 - 20 million Russians he killed. I am sure they would believe you.

The only reason Stalin hasn't received the same popular vilification as Hitler is because he joined the Allied side in the Second World War.

Yeah....tell that to the 10 - 20 million Russians he killed. I am sure they would believe you.

The only reason Stalin hasn't received the same popular vilification as Hitler is because he joined the Allied side in the Second World War.

neither of them are really heard around here. but that's cause we weren't in the world war 2. and if he killed them they were likely bad for the country.

neither of them are really heard around here. but that's cause we weren't in the world war 2. and if he killed them they were likely bad for the country.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I cannot explain the sheer magnitude of the Stalinist Terrors in a thread because the atrocities are so huge, so wide ranging and so awful, it deserves a full thread.

In a local Moscow town, there was an old woman who Stalin viewed as one of his favourites. She would sit in the local soviet at town meetings and would say when people walked in:

"I have never met that man before but I can tell by the glimmer in his eyes that he is an Enemy of the People"

Those unfortunates were arrested, tortured and shot (if they were lucky). If they were unlucky they were sent to the gulags.

It depends on who you are. If you're a jew or anything else the Nazis hated, the answer is obvious. But if you're a white man that the Nazis probably wouldn't discriminate against, you probably stood a greater risk of being killed at random by Lenin than by Hitler. The Nazis disposed of their prisoners more horrifically, but Lenin killed a big heap of people himself.

Though it also depends largely on your definition of Evil/Bad.

Hitler killed (methodically) from Hatred and a need to Scapegoat.
Stalin's methodical killings were much more politically calculated.

Hitler perpetrated a Genocide, Stalin was a "simple" political mass-murderer.

By the numbers, and by the risk factors to the general population, Stalin was worse. By Ideology Hitler was worse... but at least you had a better chance of not being randomly targeted for the Camps (or a Workers Cooperative (Farm), or sent off to build a "Secret City" in Siberia, or whatever) by the Nazis.

Though, IMO neither was as "bad" as Pol Pot.

(Though the difference is akin to the difference between being within one mile of either a 10, 20, or 30 MT nuke...)

It depends on who you are. If you're a jew or anything else the Nazis hated, the answer is obvious. But if you're a white man that the Nazis probably wouldn't discriminate against, you probably stood a greater risk of being killed at random by Lenin than by Hitler. The Nazis disposed of their prisoners more horrifically, but Lenin killed a big heap of people himself.

You mean Stalin. Lenin was a good guy.

You mean Stalin. Lenin was a good guy.
While Lenin was not a good guy, Stalin was far worse.

Lenin dissolved parliaments, launched wars of aggression, ordered political executions carried out and the like. Nowhere near the level of Stalin though.

Though it also depends largely on your definition of Evil/Bad.

Hitler killed (methodically) from Hatred and a need to Scapegoat.
Stalin's methodical killings were much more politically calculated.

Hitler perpetrated a Genocide, Stalin was a "simple" political mass-murderer.

By the numbers, and by the risk factors to the general population, Stalin was worse. By Ideology Hitler was worse... but at least you had a better chance of not being randomly targeted for the Camps (or a Workers Cooperative (Farm), or sent off to build a "Secret City" in Siberia, or whatever) by the Nazis.

Though, IMO neither was as "bad" as Pol Pot.

(Though the difference is akin to the difference between being within one mile of either a 10, 20, or 30 MT nuke...)

Yeah that's also something I've thought about a lot, but the thing you have to realize is that Stalin's killings weren't really well thought out; they were more or less random [and yeah I meant Stalin, thanks for pointing that out heh]. Stalin was a very paranoid man, and his mental instability is easily compared to Hitler's.

I still wouldn't want to live in either, but I'd probably rather chance Germany since I'm white.

Yeah that's also something I've thought about a lot, but the thing you have to realize is that Stalin's killings weren't really well thought out; they were more or less random [and yeah I meant Stalin, thanks for pointing that out heh]. Stalin was a very paranoid man, and his mental instability is easily compared to Hitler's.

I still wouldn't want to live in either, but I'd probably rather chance Germany since I'm white.

This is what I posted 15 minutes earlier:

By most modern standards, Stalin was an anti semite. He feared Jewish zionism just as much as Hitler did, especially towards the ends of his life. Indeed recently released files from the Russian government show that Stalin was actually planning to unleash a Terror specifically against the Jewish population just before he died. Indeed the Doctors Plot and the Leningrad Case were both actions taken against Jews (the Leningraders had written to him to suggest that the Crimea be given to the Jews as their home land). Paulina Molotova, the Jewish wife of Stalin's longest standing magnate and comrade, was arrested by Stalin because she was Jewish.

Stalin also took actions against certain classes and nationalities. During the first decade of his reign, much of his time was spent with the elimination of the kulak class - the prosperous business farmers. He also unleashed several specific terrors against the Ukrainains and the Georgians (the region he was from ironically) because they were non Russian.

Stalin's murderous sprees usually had some target involved.

This is what I posted 15 minutes earlier:

By most modern standards, Stalin was an anti semite. He feared Jewish zionism just as much as Hitler did, especially towards the ends of his life. Indeed recently released files from the Russian government show that Stalin was actually planning to unleash a Terror specifically against the Jewish population just before he died. Indeed the Doctors Plot and the Leningrad Case were both actions taken against Jews (the Leningraders had written to him to suggest that the Crimea be given to the Jews as their home land). Paulina Molotova, the Jewish wife of Stalin's longest standing magnate and comrade, was arrested by Stalin because she was Jewish.

Stalin also took actions against certain classes and nationalities. During the first decade of his reign, much of his time was spent with the elimination of the kulak class - the prosperous business farmers. He also unleashed several specific terrors against the Ukrainains and the Georgians (the region he was from ironically) because they were non Russian.

Stalin's murderous sprees usually had some target involved.

Those plans against the Jews [like with Hitler's] were a result of obsessive paranoia and the mental urge to find a scapegoat for everything. It's always been trendy for people to hate Jews; I'm not claming Stalin was any exception. I don't know what you're trying to get me to admit here: he may have been planning to strike a certain demographic but you can't deny that killed a lot more different kinds of people than Hitler did.

what is better?dictature or dictature?that is the question.
now what is better? hypocracy(like now)? or dictature?
choose comrade.choose or die

The general quality of life in Nazi Germany was much higher than in Stalinst Russia, so I would say that Russia would have been worse. Plus, you stood a greater chance of getting killed in Russia than you did in Germany, as any group of people that Hitler tried to exterminate, so did Stalin (except for communists, obviously).

Those plans against the Jews [like with Hitler's] were a result of obsessive paranoia and the mental urge to find a scapegoat for everything. It's always been trendy for people to hate Jews; I'm not claming Stalin was any exception. I don't know what you're trying to get me to admit here: he may have been planning to strike a certain demographic but you can't deny that killed a lot more different kinds of people than Hitler did.
I dunno...Hitler had it out for all non-"aryans." He certainly wanted to exterminate the Poles, he also wanted to exterminate Gypsys, various ethnic groups, and the like. They both had pretty broad based killing schemes. After all, of the eleven million who died in Hitlers concentration camps, 6 million were Jewish and the other five were something else.

If you're just considering deaths, you must also consider the time they were in power. Stalin killed 10-20 million in about 30 years, Hitler 11 million in 12 years. So While Stalin has an average of 300,000-600,000 a year, Hitler averages 900,000 a year, up to three times as many. (Though using statistics like this is horrific, make no mistake). That said Hitler didn't really start the methodical killing until 1939 (IIRC 'only' about 25,000 (or perhaps it was 250,000, still much less than in the war time) were sent to camps in 1939), so in his height Hitler was possibly worse, purely based on the number killed.

id say pol pot too

(the killing fields was on tv today)

he managed to combine genocide with the wholesale destruction of infrastructure, dismantaling of society and the murder of everyone with any education

Just put in the next poll: Worst killer in Earth history human or human? and then we got nice time to ponder. Oh but what if those marsians start to run things and put their shit on us?EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK :headbang:

Hitler. He killed 11 million in death camps, ideologically motivated deaths. Stalins deaths, while no accident, werent out of hatred. Hitler killed 11m in death camps alone, with less than half of stalin's population. Hitler provoked a war where 55m or more died.

I would take a chance in soviet russia, over hitler's germany. I am an atheist who is enthusiastic about joining the military. They would have loved me.

Hitler. He killed 11 million in death camps, ideologically motivated deaths. Stalins deaths, while no accident, werent out of hatred. Hitler killed 11m in death camps alone, with less than half of stalin's population. Hitler provoked a war where 55m or more died.

I would take a chance in soviet russia, over hitler's germany. I am an atheist who is enthusiastic about joining the military. They would have loved me.

Until Stalin started getting paranoid because you were popular among the soldiers.

Until Stalin started getting paranoid because you were popular among the soldiers.
"Popularity is a tool of the capitalist oppressor! Die, filthy capitalist pig!!!"
:sniper:

:D

Until Stalin started getting paranoid because you were popular among the soldiers.

But I'm an unpopular person. Im the kid at school who hangs around popular people, but doesnt say anything for fear of being rejected. Im perfect.

But I'm an unpopular person. Im the kid at school who hangs around popular people, but doesnt say anything for fear of being rejected. Im perfect.

Well, that's obviously part of your sinister plan to seize power from Comrade Stalin. Off with your head!

*waits patiently for somebody to say that the modern US is worse than both of them put together...with snakes in them.*

Hitler. He killed 11 million in death camps, ideologically motivated deaths. Stalins deaths, while no accident, werent out of hatred. Hitler killed 11m in death camps alone, with less than half of stalin's population. Hitler provoked a war where 55m or more died.

I would take a chance in soviet russia, over hitler's germany. I am an atheist who is enthusiastic about joining the military. They would have loved me.

me too. and plus i'm in favour of a totalitarian government.

*waits patiently for somebody to say that the modern US is worse than both of them put together...with snakes in them.*
You have a point, I'm rather surprised this thread hasn't attracted any of the anti-American trolls that like to call the neocons a Nazi regime yet...

Stalin's regime was worse. Instead of killing other people, he killed his own people. That and he stained the name of Communism with his evil.

Hitler.

Corrupt communism is bad, but not as bad as Nazism.

Killing millions of Jews and disabled people is a horrible act.

Stalin killed, but not to the extent that Hitler did