NationStates Jolt Archive

Puerto Rico has been a part of the USA for a very long time. (I'm too lazy to look up exactly how long, but it's been more than 5 decades. I'm sure of that.) So this Puerto Rican guy comes up to me today to ask me a question, and he can't put together a sentance in English. He only really speaks Spanish. If Puerto Rico is part of the USA, shouldn't English be taught in their schools?

Puerto Rico has been a part of the USA for a very long time. (I'm too lazy to look up exactly how long, but it's been more than 5 decades. I'm sure of that.) So this Puerto Rican guy comes up to me today to ask me a question, and he can't put together a sentance in English. He only really speaks Spanish. If Puerto Rico is part of the USA, shouldn't English be taught in their schools?
a what?

a what?
Did I misspell it? Ok, but at least I can say it and know what it means.

They've been part of the US since 1898, and they've been in their current commonwealth status since 1952.

If Puerto Rico is part of the USA, shouldn't English be taught in their schools?
Why?

Puerto Rico is part of the US?

Puerto Rico is part of the US?
Sort of.

Puerto Rico is part of the US?
Yup. Free Associated State I think is their status. They have a great deal of autonomy and independence, but doesn't get to vote in Congress and some other things like that.

Actually, it's current status is much closer to the relationship the original states had at the start of the USA.

I've spent the last few years teaching in Public Schools in Nevada, and I know several U.S. children who aren't particularly adept with English, from all cultural and economic backgrounds. Certainly, we can be concerned with the level of proficiency in the language (hopefully without being needlessly pedantic), but I don't believe the Puerto Ricans are any worse as a group than anybody else.

On the other hand, I grew up getting yelled at by my Dad in a language I didn't speak, so I sympathize with how frustrating it can be to not understand what the other person is saying.

Puerto Rico has been a part of the USA for a very long time. (I'm too lazy to look up exactly how long, but it's been more than 5 decades. I'm sure of that.) So this Puerto Rican guy comes up to me today to ask me a question, and he can't put together a sentance in English. He only really speaks Spanish. If Puerto Rico is part of the USA, shouldn't English be taught in their schools?


Why should english be taught in their schools? English is not our official language.

Also, PR isnt a state.

It ought to be, but it isnt.

Puerto Rico is a common wealth of the U.S. Basically they can take all of the government assistance they need and not worry about it and keep their independence (what little they have).

I myself blame the U.S. politicians for letting them leech off the government and not do anything about it.

Puerto Rico is a common wealth of the U.S. Basically they can take all of the government assistance they need and not worry about it and keep their independence (what little they have).


Correction: They can take all the government assistance that Congress authorizes. And they don't get a vote in that Congress, by the way. A Congress that also controls their foreign affairs and defense. Of course, they don't get taxes as much as other states, but since they don't have representation it seems only fair.


I myself blame the U.S. politicians for letting them leech off the government and not do anything about it.

Well, write to your congressman and ask them to grant Puerto Rico full statehood. Although Puerto Ricans themselves are divided on this issue. I think last referendum was something like 50.5 vs 49.5 against statehood.

schools in puerto rico are taught in the local language, which is spanish. english is taught but not everyone actually pays attention in school (SOOOOO different from the rest of the country, eh?) and some people just arent good at learning a second language.

as you might remember from your own language classes in highschool, if you dont practice it you dont remember it. if you speak spanish at home, in your neighborhood and at work, you arent likely to be all that good at english.

Why?
So they can effectively communicate with the vast majority of their fellow citizens.

Well, write to your congressman and ask them to grant Puerto Rico full statehood. Although Puerto Ricans themselves are divided on this issue. I think last referendum was something like 50.5 vs 49.5 against statehood.

If I had to write to my congressman for everything that they should be doing right, I wouldn't have time to live my life. I shouldn't be writing to them, they get elected for a reason.

schools in puerto rico are taught in the local language, which is spanish. english is taught but not everyone actually pays attention in school (SOOOOO different from the rest of the country, eh?) and some people just arent good at learning a second language.

as you might remember from your own language classes in highschool, if you dont practice it you dont remember it. if you speak spanish at home, in your neighborhood and at work, you arent likely to be all that good at english.
It would be interesting to have some statistics on the number of Puerto Ricans with Spanish as their mother-tongue that speak a second language (e.g. English) as a result of schooling and the number of mainland Americans with English as their mother-tongue that speak a second language as a result of schooling.

I suspect that a greater proportion of Puerto Ricans would have second language skills than their compatriots on the American mainland.

Puerto Rico is part of the US?

Yeah, it is a territorial commonwealth of the United States with a high degree of autonomy. They do not have any representation in Congress or electing our president, but they do not have to pay federal taxes, either. They hold referenda every so many years. Remaining a commonwealth has won each time, obviously, but in the last one, 1998 or 1999 I think, it only won by a few percentage points over becoming a US state. Independence only ever gets like 5%-10% of the vote.

If Puerto Rico is part of the USA, shouldn't English be taught in their schools?

English isn't the official language of the USA. There is none. There's nothing mandating that any of the states teach English as the primary language; it just so happens that almost all schools do. Schools in Louisiana could teach French as the primary language, and schools in California could teach Spanish as the primary language, if they chose to do so.

It would be interesting to have some statistics on the number of Puerto Ricans with Spanish as their mother-tongue that speak a second language (e.g. English) as a result of schooling and the number of mainland Americans with English as their mother-tongue that speak a second language as a result of schooling.

I suspect that a greater proportion of Puerto Ricans would have second language skills than their compatriots on the American mainland.
It would only make sense. English is much more usefull as a second language in the US than Spanish would be. Many more people speak English.

It would only make sense. English is much more usefull as a second language in the US than Spanish would be. Many more people speak English.
So, why then this discussion?

English isn't the official language of the USA. There is none. There's nothing mandating that any of the states teach English as the primary language; it just so happens that almost all schools do. Schools in Louisiana could teach French as the primary language, and schools in California could teach Spanish as the primary language, if they chose to do so.
That's kind of stupid. Wouldn't it be good to have everyone in the country fluent in the same language? You know, so they could communicate with each other.

So, why then this discussion?
Because I was shocked that a US citizen, most likely born here and not an immigrant, would be unable to communicate in English. My parents moved here from Italy. Both learned English. They didn't have the luxury to learn it as children. They put in the time and effort to learn it as adults.

Correction: They can take all the government assistance that Congress authorizes. And they don't get a vote in that Congress, by the way. A Congress that also controls their foreign affairs and defense. Of course, they don't get taxes as much as other states, but since they don't have representation it seems only fair.



Well, write to your congressman and ask them to grant Puerto Rico full statehood. Although Puerto Ricans themselves are divided on this issue. I think last referendum was something like 50.5 vs 49.5 against statehood.

The last referendum went 50.2% for keeping the status quo versus 46.4% for statehood, with over 70% of the eligible voters voting.

English isn't the official language of the USA. There is none. There's nothing mandating that any of the states teach English as the primary language; it just so happens that almost all schools do. Schools in Louisiana could teach French as the primary language, and schools in California could teach Spanish as the primary language, if they chose to do so.

if it's not the official language, then English is the unofficial official language of the USA.

That's kind of stupid. Wouldn't it be good to have everyone in the country fluent in the same language? You know, so they could communicate with each other.

Well, then, get it changed. Currently there are no official languages.

if it's not the official language, then English is the unofficial official language of the USA.

It is the most widespread language, of course, but there is nothing in the lawbooks mandating English be the language of this country. English was not always as widely used in this country as it is today.

Damn, I forgot to start this thread with "I'm not racist, but". Now everybody's going to think I'm racist against Hispanics.

Because I was shocked that a US citizen, most likely born here and not an immigrant, would be unable to communicate in English.
But Spanish is the majority language in their homeland?!

Are all Swiss Germans able to converse fluently to their Swiss French compatriots in French and vice versa? Can all Swedish-speakers in Finland speak fluent Finnish (the answer is no for many (although falling) in the Österbotten region), can all French Canadians speak fluently to their English language compatriots and v.v. etc etc etc....

Damn, I forgot to start this thread with "I'm not racist, but". Now everybody's going to think I'm racist against Hispanics.

and you're a communist too!

So they can effectively communicate with the vast majority of their fellow citizens.
I guess they have English as second language, but you can't force them to be good at it.

Damn, I forgot to start this thread with "I'm not racist, but". Now everybody's going to think I'm racist against Hispanics.
Even if you did that, they'd think you're racist. :)

As for the matter at hand, does Puerto Ricans go a lot in the states? If they stay merely in Puerto Rico, which speaks Spanish, I don't see why they should learn english.

But Spanish is the majority language in their homeland?!

Are all Swiss Germans able to converse fluently to their Swiss French compatriots in French and vice versa? Can all Swedish-speakers in Finland speak fluent Finnish (the answer is no for many (although falling) in the Österbotten region), can all French Canadians speak fluently to their English language compatriots and v.v. etc etc etc....

Actually, the Swiss are remarkably fluent, as a whole, in all four languages of their nation. Not to say that they are all fluent in all four, but a majority are.

Even if you did that, they'd think you're racist. :)

As for the matter at hand, does Puerto Ricans go a lot in the states? If they stay merely in Puerto Rico, which speaks Spanish, I don't see why they should learn english.
There are plenty of Puerto Ricans in NY, NJ, and PA. Probably also in FL, but I'm not sure of that.

If I had to write to my congressman for everything that they should be doing right, I wouldn't have time to live my life. I shouldn't be writing to them, they get elected for a reason.
How are they going to know what they're supposed to do if you don't tell them?

Democracy doesn't end at the polling booth, you know? It just starts there.

Actually, the Swiss are remarkably fluent, as a whole, in all four languages of their nation. Not to say that they are all fluent in all four, but a majority are.

It's nonsense to say generically that the Swiss are remarkably fluent in Romansch. But, certainly the Swiss are very strong at learning their fellow national languages - but it's by no means universal. For instance, fairly recently one German-speaking canton (may now be more than one) made French no longer a compulsory language in school (students could now choose English or something else instead).

It is the most widespread language, of course, but there is nothing in the lawbooks mandating English be the language of this country. English was not always as widely used in this country as it is today.

then when, since this country became a country, has English been the first language for a smaller percentage of people than it is now?

even with the huge waves of immigration from places like ITaly and Poland and Scandinavia (etc.), they still pretty much had to learn English once they got here. Does anyone have any grandparents or great-grandparents who came over from Europe who don't speak english?

whereas now, many of our immigrants are not learning english.

Even if you did that, they'd think you're racist. :)

As for the matter at hand, does Puerto Ricans go a lot in the states? If they stay merely in Puerto Rico, which speaks Spanish, I don't see why they should learn english.

There is a huge Puerto Rican minority in New York City. About half of all ethnic Puerto Ricans live in the United States.

It's nonsense to say generically that the Swiss are remarkably fluent in Romansch. But, certainly the Swiss are very strong at learning their fellow national languages - but it's by no means universal. For instance, fairly recently one German-speaking canton (may now be more than one) made French no longer a compulsory language in school (students could now choose English or something else instead).

Fine, other than Romansch. Jerk. :D But they're all rather fluent in French, German, and Italian.

Fine, other than Romansch. Jerk. :D But they're all rather fluent in French, German, and Italian.
They are not universally!! It's just not factually correct.

Why do you call me a jerk?

then when, since this country became a country, has English been the first language for a smaller percentage of people than it is now?

even with the huge waves of immigration from places like ITaly and Poland and Scandinavia (etc.), they still pretty much had to learn English once they got here. Does anyone have any grandparents or great-grandparents who came over from Europe who don't speak english?

whereas now, many of our immigrants are not learning english.

English has been the first language for the majority of people in this country since its inception. But it has not always been as wide of a margin as it is now. A substantial minority of "Americans" in the period right after the American Revolutionary War did not speak English. Think of Germans in Pennsylvania, Dutch in New York, the French in Louisiana, Spanish in Florida, etc. etc. They all spoke languages that weren't English.

And for the record, my great-grandparents on my mother's side emigrated here from Italy, and they did not know how to speak English by the time they died, god rest their souls.

Puerto Rico has been a part of the USA for a very long time. (I'm too lazy to look up exactly how long, but it's been more than 5 decades. I'm sure of that.) So this Puerto Rican guy comes up to me today to ask me a question, and he can't put together a sentance in English. He only really speaks Spanish. If Puerto Rico is part of the USA, shouldn't English be taught in their schools?

...sentence...

How much Spanish do you speak? Other language?

Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States.

They are not universally!! It's just not factually correct.

Why do you call me a jerk?

Because I didn't even think of Romansch....

It was just in jest, anyway. Don't take it so hard.

Because I didn't even think of Romansch....

It was just in jest, anyway. Don't take it so hard.
So which was the fourth Swiss national language you were thinking of? You stated four.

I'm not taking it hard, I just don't feel it's necessary. It may be a cultural thing, Americans and English-speakers do use a large number of profanities far more casually than some other language speakers - I guess that makes them hold less value (i.e. you hear something so often, it no longer shocks).

So which was the fourth Swiss national language you were thinking of? You stated four.

I'm not taking it hard, I just don't feel it's necessary. It may be a cultural thing, Americans and English-speakers do use a large number of profanities far more casually than some other language speakers - I guess that makes them hold less value (i.e. you hear something so often, it no longer shocks).

Yeah, I wouldn't even think of "jerk" as a profanity, so I suppose that says much about the prevalence of insults like that in my culture.

English has been the first language for the majority of people in this country since its inception. But it has not always been as wide of a margin as it is now. A substantial minority of "Americans" in the period right after the American Revolutionary War did not speak English. Think of Germans in Pennsylvania, Dutch in New York, the French in Louisiana, Spanish in Florida, etc. etc. They all spoke languages that weren't English.

And for the record, my great-grandparents on my mother's side emigrated here from Italy, and they did not know how to speak English by the time they died, god rest their souls.

fair enough. i figured the Pennsylvania Deutsch had been assimilated by the time the revolution was over.

There are plenty of Puerto Ricans in NY, NJ, and PA. Probably also in FL, but I'm not sure of that.
Well, those should learn english.

But then it's the same problems with Little Italy, little China, little Luxemburg, etc. It's more of an immigration occurence than anything.

I concur with the people who said that English is not the official language, so it's absurd to expect people to learn English.
I think the reason that immigrants from the previous century, and the 19th century learned English is because of the rampant xenophobia that went on then, and it was an attempt to fit in. While xenophobia still exists today, it's not as rampant as it once was.
Stalin required everyone to learn Russian, so the question "why doesn't everyone speak the same language"? is a bit totalitarianistic to me.
And, lastly, I think it's absurd to expect people to learn English as a second language when most of the people who speak it as a first language don't do so very well. Concentrate on them, first.

...sentence...

How much Spanish do you speak? Other language?

Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States.
I speak Italian fairly well, and enough German to get by as a tourist.

I speak Italian fairly well, and enough German to get by as a tourist.

Come parlate italiano?

Even if you did that, they'd think you're racist. :)

As for the matter at hand, does Puerto Ricans go a lot in the states? If they stay merely in Puerto Rico, which speaks Spanish, I don't see why they should learn english.

My mother is Puerto Rican. SHe moved with her mother and sisters to Connecticut when she was a year old. She had a very hard time learning English. SHe did, eventually. And fluently. But when my sister and I were born, she insisted on speaking ONLY english. So I never really learned spanish until High School. Personally, I wish she taught us both growing up. Young children pick up languages much easier than adults do.

Now that I'm grown up, I don't learn languages easily. And that annoys me. I'd like to know several, and I probably never will. :(

Everybody speaking the same language is highly overrated. However, one of the primary causes of different language(geographic isolation) is rapidly vanishing. The world is shrinking. The Internet makes distance virtually irrelevant. Eventually, as time goes by, languages will die. Or merge. I suspect that if the world unites under a global language, it will be and odd mix of english and chinese.

Everybody speaking the same language is highly overrated. However, one of the primary causes of different language(geographic isolation) is rapidly vanishing. The world is shrinking. The Internet makes distance virtually irrelevant. Eventually, as time goes by, languages will die. Or merge. I suspect that if the world unites under a global language, it will be and odd mix of english and chinese.
As in the Firefly TV series. :)

I just wanted to mention Firefly because it rocks. I now return you to your discussion.

There used to be a fairly large french speaking community in Maine until fairly recently. The democrats took care of them though. Closed their high schools and what not and made them all learn english. So it can be done.

There used to be a fairly large french speaking community in Maine until fairly recently. The democrats took care of them though. Closed their high schools and what not and made them all learn english. So it can be done.

Well, yeah, it can be done, but should it?

There used to be a fairly large french speaking community in Maine until fairly recently. The democrats took care of them though. Closed their high schools and what not and made them all learn english. So it can be done.

What? They didn't secede? Didn't create an FLM?

Can you imagine what would happen in Canada if the feds tried to force people to stop speaking French?

There used to be a fairly large french speaking community in Maine until fairly recently. The democrats took care of them though. Closed their high schools and what not and made them all learn english. So it can be done.

the American state of Maine got its name, of course, from the French state (or region?) of Maine.

What? They didn't secede? Didn't create an FLM?

Can you imagine what would happen in Canada if the feds tried to force people to stop speaking French?
They tried. They even sent a large number to Louisiana. The rest just wouldn't give up, so the English government just stopped trying. That's partly why there's such a pro-French movement in Quebec - yes, they can hold a grudge that long.

They then thought that it would be easier to make the natives not speak their language. And they were being very succesful in that, but then they grew a conscience.

the American state of Maine got its name, of course, from the French state (or region?) of Maine.

Province. I believe they're called provinces in France.

Come parlate italiano?
Bene, ma no tropo bene. Non tengo amici che parlano la lingua Italiana per praticare.

My spelling and grammar may be attrocious. I said I speak it fairly well, and I can read it, but my writing is probably bad.

Bene, ma no tropo bene. Non tengo amici che parlano la lingua Italiana per praticare.

My spelling and grammar may be attrocious. I said I speak it fairly well, and I can read it, but my writing is probably bad.

Ah. Il mio italiano è abbastanza difettoso. Posso ottenere attraverso che cosa desidero dire, ma la mia grammatica è atrocious. Ho un vocabolario piuttosto completo, almeno.

You'll notice my grammar is pretty horrifying, too. A native Italian-speaker is going to see this and be offended. :D

And on that note....

Whats the deal with airline food? ;)

What? They didn't secede? Didn't create an FLM?

Can you imagine what would happen in Canada if the feds tried to force people to stop speaking French?

Well, they were fairly upset about it. But nothing happened.

Bear in mind this only happened like 30-40 years ago. Once in a while you see older french speaker on the local news complaining about it.

Fun Fact: I've actually had my car worked on by an Acadian.

a what?
*applauds*

They tried. They even sent a large number to Louisiana. The rest just wouldn't give up, so the English government just stopped trying. That's partly why there's such a pro-French movement in Quebec - yes, they can hold a grudge that long.

They then thought that it would be easier to make the natives not speak their language. And they were being very succesful in that, but then they grew a conscience.

LOL - There's been a pro-French movement in Quebec since before the French lost the battle at the Plains of Abraham.

But point taken - I can see how watching French Maine losing their language rights would make Quebec very concerned.