NationStates Jolt Archive

Even if said weapon isn't even in the goddamned country? You can't acquire an AK if there are no AKs to acquire.
Okay, do you know what the going rate internationally for an AK-47 is?

$25.00 for an Ex-Nicaraguan gun.

Moving them, and their ammunition, into a given country (say, Mexico) isn't difficult-it is, in fact, a trivial effort. If you live on an Island, with complete round-the-clock patrols offshore, you might be able to stop a large shipment. If your country has a common border on a landmass, on the other hand, it's just not going to happen.

Smuggling is a time-honoured means of violating bans on all sorts of goods, and guns are actually simpler to run than, say, pot, given the potential value-to-risk ratio, or Freon-12 (which passed Cocaine as far as profitable-to-smuggle into the U.S. three years ago.)

You can fit several thousand dollars worth of iron into the trunk of a buick, and cross into the U.S., Mexico, or Canada at dozens of unguarded crossings.
You can fit over a million dollar's retail (not the wholesale price) into an anonymous container, and have it distributed to the gangs by the time Customs shows up to unseal the cannister.
There was a recent bust at San Diego that made the news-because it wasn't guns, it was RPG's and other heavy-weapons taken off a Norinco shipment, that was only discovered because of a 'tip'. (Recent being 1995, mind.)

Bullets are much, much easier to slip into a country than Freon-12 is, they're smaller, more compact, the containers are more durable, and they don't float or require vast volume for the saleable amount. All you need are bullets and a fair (not even great) understanding of metalworking to have guns.
Including rifled guns, and including rifled guns with decent accuracy, semi or full automatic mechanisms, and big magazines. In WWII, the Danish resistance built submachineguns and light-machineguns right under the Nazi's noses-and the Nazi regime was VERY in favour of restricting access to firearms-having guns or bullets in your possession was a good way to go see a Death Camp first hand-if they didn't summary-execute you first.

Not in the United States, and certainly not illegal in Virginia.

The Hague Convention prohibits the use of expanding or fragmenting bullets in warfare (often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions), but hollow point bullets are one of the most common types of civilian and police ammunition.

So WL is right: they're not illegal, except in international warfare, and hunting in some areas.

The Hague Convention prohibits the use of expanding or fragmenting bullets in warfare (often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions), but hollow point bullets are one of the most common types of civilian and police ammunition.

So WL is right: they're not illegal, except in international warfare, and hunting in some areas.

Right now I'm wearing two magazines with 230gr Remington Golden Saber +P 45 ACP rounds in them. 8 + 1 in the gun, and 8 in the other magazine.

Very hollowpoint, and very legal.

The Hague Convention prohibits the use of expanding or fragmenting bullets in warfare (often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions), but hollow point bullets are one of the most common types of civilian and police ammunition.

So WL is right: they're not illegal, except in international warfare, and hunting in some areas.

I did not know that! Where are they illegal, so I can avoid those places?
Hollow-points are more merciful to the animal than Full-metal-jacket bullets. (in hunting, the objective is to kill the animal as mercifully as possible-this is different from, say, warfare, because a wounded man might be saved. In the wild, an wounded animal becomes prey for the scavengers, and suffers horribly before the end.)

Right now I'm wearing two magazines with 230gr Remington Golden Saber +P 45 ACP rounds in them. 8 + 1 in the gun, and 8 in the other magazine.

Very hollowpoint, and very legal.

Yep, absolutely. It's also the preferred round of most of the world's police forces.

But the minute we declare war on Andorra and you shoot an Andorran, you're in BIG trouble! :D

I did not know that! Where are they illegal, so I can avoid those places?
Hollow-points are more merciful to the animal than Full-metal-jacket bullets. (in hunting, the objective is to kill the animal as mercifully as possible-this is different from, say, warfare, because a wounded man might be saved. In the wild, an wounded animal becomes prey for the scavengers, and suffers horribly before the end.)

New Jersey comes to mind, but there are lots of other reasons to avoid Jersey. ;)

Ah, that's just being paranoid. :)

Besides, it's already been proven that if it *isn't* destroyed, it is inadmissable in the courts.

So basically, they can hang onto the stuff as long as they feel like it. Whee.

I'm all for it.
I also think Prohibition was illegal to begin with.

Ditto that. The war on drugs needs to be stopped.

Hollowpoints are illegal.

Depends where you are.

So basically, they can hang onto the stuff as long as they feel like it. Whee.

If they're caught with it, you're free to file suit... (darn those pesky lawyers!!)

If they're caught with it, you're free to file suit... (darn those pesky lawyers!!)

Yeah, and filing a suit against the government does WONDERS. :rolleyes:

Gah...

Yes, because poverty stricken illiterate societies work *so* much better.Exactly, when's the last time a private school had a shooting?

I'm sick of people blaming Goths for the Columbine shootings.

Attention: Those kids weren't goths, most *real* goths don't shoot people and are actually pacifists.

I'm not gothic, but I'm friends with a few...call me a semi-goth.

Ah, that's just being paranoid. :)

Besides, it's already been proven that if it *isn't* destroyed, it is inadmissable in the courts.
You think the courtroom is the only thing you have to worry about?

Yeah, and filing a suit against the government does WONDERS. :rolleyes:

Gah...

Hey... like we're not jousting at windmills already? ;)

You think the courtroom is the only thing you have to worry about?

IF the feds wanted someone to disappear, they hardly need the background check to make it happen...

So, as far as the background check goes, yes.

I'm sick of people blaming Goths for the Columbine shootings.

Attention: Those kids weren't goths, most *real* goths don't shoot people and are actually pacifists.

I'm not gothic, but I'm friends with a few...call me a semi-goth.

Actually, most goths died out several centuries ago.

Hey... like we're not jousting at windmills already? ;)

Sorry, forgot my :D

Guns & Knives being banned wouldn't solve that many problems. People could still kill people with every day objects such as pens & pencils (in schools or in offices), which could make excellent instruments for killing if they were applied in the right way.

Being hit by a peice of ordinary lettuce would be lethal if the lettuce was travelling fast enough!

Also, people are animals (ALL people. I do not see myself as superior to anyone else, and infact often see myself as inferior because I think less than others before I do things). No matter how much one attempts to escape & rise above this, they will still be governed by instincts. </soapbox>

Well of course, education's to blame. How did we miss that?
.


given the quotes aroount 'free' I think he was refering to the sad and authoritarian state of American schools where we herd children together so they don't cause trouble while mom and dad are at work, give them a bunch of dumb rule, fake like we teach them something other than how to fall in line and the leave them to do what children do when left alone with nothing fun or productive to do, that is form cliques and reenact lord of the flies. Or maybee thats just me. he could be bitching about paying taxes to educate other peoples kids or something like that.

Or maybee thats just me. he could be bitching about paying taxes to educate other peoples kids or something like that.

When $0.74 out of every tax dollar is going towards education, and the test scores haven't budged in a decade, I think one has a right to bitch.

I don't mind public education. The nation needs it. But right now (I worked in a school system for 3 years), it's more corrupt than Chicago in the 30s.

There's no quick fix solution to what happened at Columbine. No piece of legislation is going to guarantee that this incident isn't repeated (as it already has multiple times.) There's something wrong with our society. Our lives are getting more comfortable, yes, but there's a culture of violence and neglect building. All the people who think this would stop if only Marilyn Manson stopped making records or if only kids didn't bully are incredibly short-sighted. The basic root of the problem is that no one ever gave a goddamn for those kids; not the parents, not the peers, not the school. Why would anyone? Sometimes I worry that modern culture has us so anesthetized that soon we'll all end up a bunch of psychos in trench coats with a grudge to bear against some vague "other."

When $0.74 out of every tax dollar is going towards education, and the test scores haven't budged in a decade, I think one has a right to bitch.

I don't mind public education. The nation needs it. But right now (I worked in a school system for 3 years), it's more corrupt than Chicago in the 30s.


Amen, my in the last few years in my schooldistrict we've been losing quite a fight with boardmembers who like to not maintain buildings and then demand that we build new multimillion dollar schools right next to residentially zoned farmland they own. And these multimillion dollar schools don't seem quite as nice as the tab makes the out to be, but we are assured that plain painted steel shelf-and-a-hook lockers really do cost $150 each even when you buy them 300 at a time. so you would be more in the first column of bitching about the state of the system not that we have one. ive had three beers since last post so sorry if i am uninteligible

When $0.74 out of every tax dollar is going towards education, and the test scores haven't budged in a decade, I think one has a right to bitch.

I don't mind public education. The nation needs it. But right now (I worked in a school system for 3 years), it's more corrupt than Chicago in the 30s.

Yah, most unions these days are quite corrupt.

On a side note, your location is off of Rage For Order, isn't it?

Yah, most unions these days are quite corrupt.

On a side note, your location is off of Rage For Order, isn't it?

don't mention unions while im drunk.

"were here to organize workers to fight together so the common man can stand up to big government and huge corporations. how should we go about that?"
"we could fight for a system in which politicians cant be bought by moneyed intrests!"
"fuck that lets buy politicians and perpetuate that sytem!"
"yes indeed!"
"i agree"
"me too"
...
Transcript of recent afl-cio meeting, no really.

:( The scary thought is this, we are lucky that ther haven't been more incidents like Columbine, or Paduka Kentucky. Bullying is something that can't really be stopped only controlled. Big kids will always pick on smaller kids or kids that aren't athletic or, good acotrs...so on and so on. Healthy compotition is one thing, but down right crulety is just plain wrong. I remember a book and for the life of me I can't rememeber the title, but it was based on a woman that lived in Conneticut and was teased her enitre high school and middle school life for being either ugly, or wearing the wrong clothes, or not being talented enough to fit in. Allot of bullies think teasing is being funny or just joking..not true at all. Most emotional scars will heal, but psychological scars take the longest time to heal, or in some cases never heal at all. Parents, psychologists, psychatrists, or counslers for as much as they want to make the hurt and pain go away have no clue as to what it is like to be made fun of or picked on unless they themselves have been thorugh something like it at any point in their own lives. Let's see what other ideas we can come up with to changethis.

There's no quick fix solution to what happened at Columbine. No piece of legislation is going to guarantee that this incident isn't repeated (as it already has multiple times.) There's something wrong with our society. Our lives are getting more comfortable, yes, but there's a culture of violence and neglect building. All the people who think this would stop if only Marilyn Manson stopped making records or if only kids didn't bully are incredibly short-sighted. The basic root of the problem is that no one ever gave a goddamn for those kids; not the parents, not the peers, not the school. Why would anyone? Sometimes I worry that modern culture has us so anesthetized that soon we'll all end up a bunch of psychos in trench coats with a grudge to bear against some vague "other."There is one quick fix, and I already mentioned it: Shut down the government schools. I don't know of any home-school or private school shooting ever taking place. I can't imagine that any private school would allow this sort of thing to ever happen. I'm sure there are plenty of good people in the public schools, but their hands are tied in ways that private schools never have to worry about.

To kill without skill... now there's an unusual statement.

It does take skill in order to kill with a pistol. It isn't like the movies. If I move, and the typical policeman is shooting at me from the typical distance of 7 yards, he's going to fire at least 5 shots before he hits me - maybe more, depending on the police in your jurisdiction. And they've had lessons.

If my daughter has a Glock in a holster, and you step into a room and start raising a pistol to fire, you can expect the first of her rounds to enter your skull approximately half a second into your arm coming up. After that, subsequent rounds will enter ever 0.11 to 0.13 seconds.

If you haven't the skill, you won't know what hit you. And no one will recognize your head, either.
Still, a gun is much easier to master than so many other weapons. Your daughter sounds impressive, but you don't always have to be that good to use a gun effectively. Someone with a handgun who's never fired a shot in his life still has a decent shot at stopping a master swordsman attacker before he's killed. His chances will vary depending on several factors, but his odds are always better with a gun than any other weapon with which he has no real skill.

There is one quick fix, and I already mentioned it: Shut down the government schools. I don't know of any home-school or private school shooting ever taking place. I can't imagine that any private school would allow this sort of thing to ever happen. I'm sure there are plenty of good people in the public schools, but their hands are tied in ways that private schools never have to worry about.

I'm not sure if that's an altogether logical thought... because after all... public schools teach a lot of kids... and if you take these kids (the majority of which are good) out of these schools, then the problem will not be solved. You'll simply have another problem on top of the original one.

Besides, closing public schools may result in thousands of disgruntled, gun-wielding parents raising hell, and I'm sure people don't want that.

Yah, most unions these days are quite corrupt.

On a side note, your location is off of Rage For Order, isn't it?

Yep.

Yep! I had "Right side of my mind" for awhile, but I don't think too many folks know the Q2K album... :(
BTW: They're opening for Judas Priest this tour... and are only playing a pre-MINDCRIME setlist! Just the EP, Warning & Rage! (I have tix to the Mohegan Sun Casino show in CT...)

Yep.

Yep! I had "Right side of my mind" for awhile, but I don't think too many folks know the Q2K album... :(
BTW: They're opening for Judas Priest this tour... and are only playing a pre-MINDCRIME setlist! Just the EP, Warning & Rage! (I have tix to the Mohegan Sun Casino show in CT...)

Yeah, I kinda lost interest after Empire. :(