NationStates Jolt Archive

I started to post a poll, but decided it wouldn't work for what I wanted so I'm just asking - who are music's elite? Who are the musicians and/or bands that should rank as the "elite" in the world of music? Who has made a difference or changed music and music appreciation in such a fundamental fashion that they deserve to ranked in a class by themselves? I'm posting my ideas. Note, they don't just include rock and roll, I'm talking all through history. My list is not in any particular order and your's needn't be either. I'd just like to know who ya'll think are the "elite"

1. Beethoven
2. Mozart
3. Bach
4. Brahms
5. Louis Armstrong
6. Guy Lombardo
7. Tommy Dorsey
8. The Beatles
9. Elvis
10. Led Zepplin
11. Pink Floyd
12. Janis Joplin
13. B.B. King
14. Billie Holiday
15. Blondie (Deborah Harrie) & Will Smith (D.J. Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince), Run DMC
16. The Rolling Stones
17. The Who
18. Gladys Knight (and the Pips)
19. The Pointer Sisters
20. Buddy Holly
21. Jimi Hendrix
22. Simon & Garfunkel
23. The Grateful Dead
24. Black Sabbath/Ozzy Ozbourne
25. Alice Cooper
26. Frank Zappa
27. Chopin
28. Miles Davis
29. Stravinsky
30. Bob Marley
31. Dizzy Gillespie

Some of you are probably scratching your heads over #15 - I've lumped those 3 together though because they brought rap into the mainstream with the songs "Rapture, "Parents Just Don't Understand," and "Walk This Way (collaberation with Aerosmith). The emergence of rap as a music form and the way it has changed the face of popular music cannot be underestimated and it was these 2 songs that did more to bring rap to the forefront than anything else IMHO. While the muscians involved do not, themselves, rank up there with, say, Led Zepplin, in a "overall" view. The 2 songs noted did as much to change the "face" of music as anything ever has, so they deserve a mention - if only honorable in a strictly ranked list (which this is not).

The best music is Christian Rock and Gospel. :)

SYSTEM OF A DOWN

end of discussion :D

Jimi is on the list twice. Makes perfect sense to me. *nod* [not sarcasm]

Yes...yes it does.

Of course, to me...And I know lots of people don't like this part of me, but don't worry, apparently I'm going to burn in hell anyway, so be happy! But I feel that Sum 41 would rank highly in my list...Not as high as Jimi or Van Halen though, without their guitaring skills, there would be no really good kick ass rock bands...

The best music is Christian Rock and Gospel. :)

*Snort*

Anyways...

Here are my top ten picks.

1.John Coltrane
2.B.B. King
3.Louis Armstrong
4.Jimi Hendrix
5.The Beatles
6.Herbie Hancock
7.Janis Joplin
8.Chopin(One of my Favorites)
9.Prince
10.Frank Zappa

Cher

Totally kidding on that one! I agree with most of your list, Norleans, especially the classical and jazz/blues musicians, the Beatles, and Simon & Garfunkel.

Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Eric Johnson and Eric Clapton pwn all at guitar - definatley 'elite'

The best music is Christian Rock and Gospel. :)

Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice did a lot and almost made my list. However, they haven't "changed" the "face" of music. JCS is easily one of the best "rock opera" productions ever (I've seen it 4 times on stage in London, once in New York and once on the "traveling broadway show" production in Little Rock, Arkansas. I have 3 different record and CD versions of it and the two movie versions) - However, despite this and the existence of other outstanding Christian Rock and Gospel music - No Christian music has "changed" the "music world" like the muscian's I've listed.

Just my humble opinion.

Jimi is on the list twice. Makes perfect sense to me. *nod* [not sarcasm]

That was a mistake, but yeah.

Here, I'll make a top 10 list.

1. Jimi Hendrix
2. Eddy Van Halen
3. Bob Marley
4. Sum 41
5. Bryan Adams "Summer of '69"-That is his only bit I know, but I love that song, and it is even better once you learn how to play it, its a fun song to play
6. AC/DC
7. Guns & Roses
8. Pink Floyd
9. Led Zepplin
10. Miles Davis

1. Beethoven
2. Mozart
3. Bach
4. Brahms
5. Louis Armstrong
6. Stravinsky
7. Miles Davis
8. The Beatles
9. Elvis
10. Led Zepplin
11. Pink Floyd
12. Janis Joplin
13. Jimi Hendrix
14. Billie Holiday
15. Duke Ellington
16. Frank Sinatra
17. The Who
18. Ella Fitzgerald
19. Count Basie
20. Buddy Holly
21. Muddy Waters
22. Simon & Garfunkel
23. Sonny Rollins
24. Black Sabbath/Ozzy Ozbourne
25. Alice Cooper
26. Frank Zappa
27. Lionel Hampton
28. Quincy Jones
29. Hans Elsier
30. Arnold Schoenberg

Changed/Added to your list

I would add Metallica(yes the new stuff is sad and pathetic but one cant forget how early stuff changed metal), DR. DRE/NWA, and Elvis.

*Snort*

Anyways...

Here are my top ten picks.

1.John Coltrane
2.B.B. King
3.Louis Armstrong
4.Jimi Hendrix
5.The Beatles
6.Herbie Hancock
7.Janis Joplin
8.Chopin(One of my Favorites)
9.Prince
10.Frank Zappa

Hmm, Chopan and B.B. King - good additions, I can go for that.

OOOPS Elvis was already there Im such a N00B.

anyone said Black Sabbath yet? how about Iron Maiden?

Ed Wolbank

AH! I'm the only who likes Bob Marley here?! Sheesh, I guess none of yas celebrated 4/20....*walks off singing* Don't Worry, Be Happy...

Dizzy Gillespie, Nat King Cole. Duke Ellington, and Charlie Parker would also make my list.

anyone said Black Sabbath yet? how about Iron Maiden?

Sabbath has come up, and it's about time Iron Maiden did

1. Beethoven
2. Mozart
3. Bach
4. Brahms
5. Louis Armstrong
6. Stravinsky
7. Miles Davis
8. The Beatles
9. Elvis
10. Led Zepplin
11. Pink Floyd
12. Janis Joplin
13. Jimi Hendrix
14. Billie Holiday
15. Duke Ellington
16. Frank Sinatra
17. The Who
18. Ella Fitzgerald
19. Count Basie
20. Buddy Holly
21. Muddy Waters
22. Simon & Garfunkel
23. Sonny Rollins
24. Black Sabbath/Ozzy Ozbourne
25. Alice Cooper
26. Frank Zappa
27. Lionel Hampton
28. Quincy Jones
29. Hans Elsier
30. Arnold Schoenberg

Changed/Added to your list

Stravinsky? - hmm, OK, I can buy that.
Miles Davis? - He's on my list, I just added him :)

AH! I'm the only who likes Bob Marley here?! Sheesh, I guess none of yas celebrated 4/20....*walks off singing* Don't Worry, Be Happy...

Actually, that was written Bobby McFerrin, but anyway....

sum41 is a really wierd choice

but the original lists didnt mention any of the beginners of punk rock... but then again we are talking about "music" and not just "rock" ... which makes sum 41 and even more crazy choice

none of you have said Paco de Lucia or Andres Segovia....... for shame.

none of you have said Paco de Lucia or Andres Segovia....... for shame.

Well, damn. Andres Segovia would make my list anyday!

none of you have said Paco de Lucia or Andres Segovia....... for shame.
Sorry, sorry, don't hit me! *cowers*

Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Eric Johnson and Eric Clapton pwn all at guitar - definatley 'elite'

Fantastic muscians, along with Eddie Van Halen, Ted Nugent, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Carlos Santana and Jeff Beck - but IMHO they didn't "change" music (though Carlos Santana and Stevie Ray Vaughan came close).

Actually, that was written Bobby McFerrin, but anyway....

Nah, a verse in a Bob Marely song. I think that verse is used in a couple of his songs. But nothing beats Three Little Birds, great song to listen to, especially at the beach....But don't get me wrong, not denying ole Bobby wrote a song "Don't Worry, Be Happy"

The Doors
Radiohead
Nine Inch Nails

I can't believe no one had mentioned The Doors yet...

AH! I'm the only who likes Bob Marley here?! Sheesh, I guess none of yas celebrated 4/20....*walks off singing* Don't Worry, Be Happy...

Sorry, I'm overwhelmed with the quik replies - Marley makes my list too and I celebrate 4/20.

Nah, a verse in a Bob Marely song. I think that verse is used in a couple of his songs. But nothing beats Three Little Birds, great song to listen to, especially at the beach....


Meh, whatever, I'm not too overly familiar with Marley's stuff, perhaps i should listen to more of his stuff

Sorry, I'm overwhelmed with the quik replies - Marley makes my list too and I celebrate 4/20.

YES! Marley rules all! In fact, he shall be bumped to number wait a tick, what number was he on my list...Well, whatever, he becomes number 2...okay, that sounded bad, he is RANKED at 2nd place...that sounds much better...

however talented he was, you really shouldn't be promoting a drug addict that sang about "the good side" of substance abse..

Dizzy Gillespie, Nat King Cole. Duke Ellington, and Charlie Parker would also make my list.

I added Dizzy. Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker and Nat King Cole - IMHO they emulated styles that went before them and had already been created - note I don't say they weren't great at what they did, I just don't see them as "changing" things. Same with Sinatra (someone mentioned him).

Hmmm... I'll come back to this tomorrow, but any list of those who have 'a difference or changed music ' and includes Alice cooper, but leaves out Ike Turner (for all his faults the writer of the first real Rock'n'Roll tune - Rocket '58) or Bill Haley and the Comets (first R'n'R to go mainstream) has some points I would argue with.

Some of you are probably scratching your heads over #15 - I've lumped those 2 together though because they brought rap into the mainstream with the songs "Rapture" and "Parents Just Don't Understand."

I would argue for Run DMC ahead of Will Smith here as far as breaking rap into the mainstream goes, but I think at least a nod of the head should go the The Clash for being the first white band to experiment with rap in The Magnificent Seven and other tunes on their 1980 Sandinista! LP. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Rapture wasn't released till 1981 (I'm too lazy to check my vinyl collection). Of course, actually giving credit to some of the real inventors of rap as a musical form wouldn't go amiss - Fatback Band perchance?


...checking Wikipedia... In 1981 Blondie became the first mainstream act to feature a rap in their hit "Rapture." ... okay. they should either have a listen to Sandinista! or explain why The Clash weren't a mainstream band...


Aside from that I'll note that Guy Lombardo is the only person that made me go 'who?' on your list. I would have added a couple more of the originators of jazz styles to your list there: John Coltrane being the most prominent example... and having said that, listing Led Zeppelin without listing Robert Johnson is surely a slip on your part, no? - what a deal: the devil got his soul and we got the roots of rock'n'roll.

Nine Inch Nails

I certainly think that Kraftwerk or possibly Tangerine Dream earn a place as electronic music innovators well up the queue before them.


I can't believe no one had mentioned The Doors yet...

Mah. They were a good band, I guess, but they were hardly innovative, were they? Just another garage band with added delusions of metaphysical and poetic significance...

EDIT: I find it somewhat surprising that John Cage hasn't made the lsit: he has certainly had a massive effect on the way we think about music, one which certainly overshadows many of the entriwes on your list, but I understand that focusing too much on the academic/classical trdition would produce just the same kind of ;liost that we havbe all seen before with C20th/21st music tackled on the end as a coda. (no pun intended).

however talented he was, you really shouldn't be promoting a drug addict that sang about "the good side" of substance abse..

Uhh, who are you speaking of? Billie Holiday? Janis Joplin? Elvis? Bob Marley? Jim Morrison (the Doors)? Keith Richards (The Rolling Stones)? Deborah Harrie (Blondie)? George Harrison (the Beatles)? Jimi Hendrix? Miles Davis? Roger Waters (Pink Floyd)? John Bonneham (Led Zepplin)?

I'm not promoting drug use, I'm asking who made good music. Get off your high horse.

Uhh, who are you speaking of? Billie Holiday? Janis Joplin? Elvis? Bob Marley? Jim Morrison (the Doors)? Keith Richards (The Rolling Stones)? Deborah Harrie (Blondie)? George Harrison (the Beatles)? Jimi Hendrix? Miles Davis? Roger Waters (Pink Floyd)? John Bonneham (Led Zepplin)?

I'm not promoting drug use, I'm asking who made good music. Get off your high horse.

That was a bit uncanny: I was considering posting pretty much the same list myself.

Eminem.



He proved that anybody can be very succesful even if the music is not of their culture.

Uhh, who are you speaking of? Billie Holiday? Janis Joplin? Elvis? Bob Marley? Jim Morrison (the Doors)? Keith Richards (The Rolling Stones)? Deborah Harrie (Blondie)? George Harrison (the Beatles)? Jimi Hendrix? Miles Davis? Roger Waters (Pink Floyd)? John Bonneham (Led Zepplin)?

can't say i'm a big fan of any of them. just because you're a musician doesn't mean you can't be a good role model.

can't say i'm a big fan of any of them. just because you're a musician doesn't mean you can't be a good role model.

Holy sheeIte! You serious? No likey Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, Jimi Hendrix, The Rolling Stones, etc?! Ah well, to each their own....


Bob Marley rulez! http://img183.echo.cx/img183/5229/dance58pt.gif

Don't worry about a thing
Cause every little thing is gonna be alright
Don't worry about a thing
Every little thing is gonna be alright

Hmmm... I'll come back to this tomorrow, but any list of those who have 'a difference or changed music ' and includes Alice cooper, but leaves out Ike Turner (for all his faults the writer of the first real Rock'n'Roll tune - Rocket '58) or Bill Haley and the Comets (first R'n'R to go mainstream) has some points I would argue with.



I would argue for Run DMC ahead of Will Smith here as far as breaking rap into the mainstream goes, but I think at least a nod of the head should go the The Clash for being the first white band to experiment with rap in The Magnificent Seven and other tunes on their 1980 Sandinista! LP. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Rapture wasn't released till 1981 (I'm too lazy to check my vinyl collection). Of course, actually giving credit to some of the real inventors of rap as a musical form wouldn't go amiss - Fatback Band perchance?


...checking Wikipedia... In 1981 Blondie became the first mainstream act to feature a rap in their hit "Rapture." ... okay. they should either have a listen to Sandinista! or explain why The Clash weren't a mainstream band...


Aside from that I'll note that Guy Lombardo is the only person that made me go 'who?' on your list. I would have added a couple more of the originators of jazz styles to your list there: John Coltrane being the most prominent example... and having said that, listing Led Zeppelin without listing Robert Johnson is surely a slip on your part, no? - what a deal: the devil got his soul and we got the roots of rock'n'roll.

Absolutely the best reply to my original post yet. I accept your knowledge without significant debate. I will say that you are right about "The Clash" being "first" but Blondie made the mainstream splash in a bigger, more important way IMHO. Same with Robert Johnson, you know who he is and so do I, but Everyone knows who Led Zepplin is. He may have "led the way" but they broke the ground. Bill Haley& the Comets? Hmm, maybe, I want to think about that. Run DMC? I think I could go with that as it regards their collaberation with Aerosmith and Walk This Way I'll add them to #15.

I certainly think that Kraftwerk or possibly Tangerine Dream earn a place as electronic music innovators well up the queue before them.




Mah. They were a good band, I guess, but they were hardly innovative, were they? Just another garage band with added delusions of metaphysical and poetic significance...

EDIT: I find it somewhat surprising that John Cage hasn't made the lsit: he has certainly had a massive effect on the way we think about music, one which certainly overshadows many of the entriwes on your list, but I understand that focusing too much on the academic/classical trdition would produce just the same kind of ;liost that we havbe all seen before with C20th/21st music tackled on the end as a coda. (no pun intended).

You didn't intend the pun, but it was actually a really good one.

That was a bit uncanny: I was considering posting pretty much the same list myself.

Great minds think alike. :cool:

Holy sheeIte! You serious? No likey Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, Jimi Hendrix, The Rolling Stones, etc?! Ah well, to each their own....

well they're ok, not really my genre or message though..

I certainly think that Kraftwerk or possibly Tangerine Dream earn a place as electronic music innovators well up the queue before them.

Actually, I think Iso Tomita would be in your electronic music short list (His rendition of Holt's The Planets is fantastic). But I'm not convinced that they "changed" music's "face." What they did is brilliant and innovative, but did it change the way society as a whole views music? I don't believe it did, anymore than Tubular Bells did, despite their creativity and genius.

I hope to see more replies, but I want to thank those that have posted so far. I did not expect such a well received thread. :)

Elgar.

Itzhak Perlman and/or Yo Yo Ma?

I'd have to say The Who, Jimi Hendrix, Alice Cooper, Ozzy whether he was with Black Sabbath or solo, B.B. King and Louis Armstrong. You could use other bands like Van Halen, AC/DC, and a personal favorite Blue Oyster Cult.

In no particualr order, except for KoRn 'cuz they are the BEST:

1. KoRn
2. The Cure
3. N.W.A.
4. Jimi Hendrix
5. The AquaBats
6. Slipknot
7. Eminem

I might have missed several, but you have an idea.

I agree with most of the picks mentioned so far, but I must say, number one, most important composer of all time would have to be Arnold Schönberg.

Eminem.



He proved that anybody can be very succesful even if the music is not of their culture.

ORIGINAL POST COMPLETE WITH LAUGHABLE ERRORS: Elvis go their first, no?

EDIT: Elvis got there first, no?

you missed

Richard James of Aphex Twin
Isaac Albinez
Cliff Burton
Bradley Nowell
Les Claypool
Peter Murphey

thats all I can think of right now

in completely random order, my picks are: Johnny Cash, B.B. King, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Zakk Wylde, John Lee Hooker, Miles Davis, Prince, Elvis, and a few others

There's been one HUGE omission in this thread. Everyone who enjoys rock music should hang your heads in shame for not thinking of/knowing about this man. Leo Fender. He only invented the electric guitar. I can't think of ANYTHING that changed music more.

Possessed. they were a HUGE influence on the start of metal, as were Death.

i am surprised David Bowie isnt on there.

Chuck Berry

Gospel rock funk!

The original list is great but you left out a whole genre of music.

Bluegrass Music
The Monroe Brothers
The Carter Sisters
Lester Flatts and Earl Scruggs

You missed Lynyrd Skynyrd, that's bad since they were at the beginning of Southern Rock


You missed the outlaws of country music that gave way for a lot of the lyrics and styles that we have in rock.

Johnny Cash
Waylon Jennings
Willie Nelson
Merle Haggard

Honky Tonk Music
Hank Williams Sr.


Oh yeah and Patsy Cline.

you might not like country and bluegrass music but you have to include these people among the elite IMO. :)

The Sex Pistols.

ORIGINAL POST COMPLETE WITH LAUGHABLE ERRORS: Elvis go their first, no?

EDIT: Elvis got there first, no?


You must not have ever heard any of Elvis' gospel tunes. The man could seriously croon. And yes even though I'm not a religious person I LOVE gospel music.

In modern music:

The Beatles
The Beach Boys
Elvis
Led Zeppelin
David Bowie
Johnny Cash
Marvin Gaye
Sam Cooke
Nirvana
Beck
Radiohead
Miles Davis
John Coltrane
Jimi Hendrix
Stevie Wonder (How could I have forgotten him?)

Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Eric Johnson and Eric Clapton pwn all at guitar - definatley 'elite'

Agreed :) Plus Malmsteen, Petrucci and Portney. And Opeth. I love Gary Moore too. And then totally different people such as James Brown, Nina Simone and Stevie Wonder.

Remeber, we're talking about the best of the best here. Not your favorite band, but the people who really defined music. Heres my list- I dont particuraly like some of them, but these are the guys who really ROCKED. Or rapped, later on.

1. The beatles (this one's obvious)
2. Elvis
3. Rolling Stones
4. Nirvana
5. Marley
6. Janis
9. Simon and Garfunkel
10. Pink Floyd
11. Greenday
12. AC/DC
13. The Who
14. Led Zeppelin
15. Jimi Hendrix
16. The Who
17. Prince
18. Ozzy
19. Eminem
20. Metallica

We are talking about the "elite" of music. Doesnt that mean we should include the best of every field? Even the crappiest, most dreaded: pop. If your talking solely in the field of shitty pop music, you might want to mention pop's "elites" such as hanson, the spice girls, the backstreet boys, Destiny's child, beyonce, n sync, j-lo, and of course, britney spears. Not that i ever listen to them.

the old dudes... Sweet 16:

1. Mozart (absolute genius... the best)
2. Bach
3. Beethoven
4. Handel
5. Chopin
6. Tchaikovsky
7. Vivaldi
8. Verdi
9. Brahms
10. Haydn
11. Schubert
12.Wagner
13.Rachmaninov
14.Mendelssohn
15.Grieg
16.Liszt

Remeber, we're talking about the best of the best here. Not your favorite band, but the people who really defined music. Heres my list- I dont particuraly like some of them, but these are the guys who really ROCKED. Or rapped, later on.

1. The beatles (this one's obvious)
2. Elvis
3. Rolling Stones
4. Nirvana
5. Marley
6. Janis
9. Simon and Garfunkel
10. Pink Floyd
11. Greenday
12. AC/DC
13. The Who
14. Led Zeppelin
15. Jimi Hendrix
16. The Who
17. Prince
18. Ozzy
19. Eminem
20. Metallica

We are talking about the "elite" of music. Doesnt that mean we should include the best of every field? Even the crappiest, most dreaded: pop. If your talking solely in the field of shitty pop music, you might want to mention pop's "elites" such as hanson, the spice girls, the backstreet boys, Destiny's child, beyonce, n sync, j-lo, and of course, britney spears. Not that i ever listen to them.

Wait a minute --- You deleted the Sex Pistols (dunno why they were below Nirvana in the first place), and replaced them with Green Day? Come on...!

No one mentioned Victor Wooten for bass, but he really changed everything and made the bass all the more accepted, and Bela Fleck & Flecktones for instrumental music.

I added Dizzy. Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker and Nat King Cole - IMHO they emulated styles that went before them and had already been created - note I don't say they weren't great at what they did, I just don't see them as "changing" things. Same with Sinatra (someone mentioned him).
Not to be too confrontational, but are you kidding me?

Duke Ellington's band almost created the big band-it was his band that started writing down the licks that the sections would play during solos. He was credited more or less with 'legitamizing' jazz by writing it down, actually arranging jazz. He set the tone for big band and swing, defined the style. You'd put Tommy Dorsey in but not Ellington, because Ellington was derivative? Huh?

And Dizz, but not Bird? It was Bird who started using the new harmonies in Bop, it was Bird that extended the solo line. It was Bird that personified, again setting the standard, of Bop. There is debate in who started Bop-was it Monk, Roach, Feather, Bird, Dizz-but there should be no doubt who mastered it-who, of all the Bop players, is most emulated. The one where you can find no equal. Who played like Bird before bird?

Nat King Cole I would just argue is an incredible talent and while he maybe didn't invent a style he certainly put a stamp on it. Being the first black host of a tv show has to count for something...

WHY IS BOWIE NOT ON ANYBODYS LIST :angry:

All this mention of AC/DC, and you forget who influenced them. One of Angus Young's influences is Muddy Waters of Memphis blues fame. With that in mind, Muddy Waters trumps AC/DC for who influenced who. Which means a riff inspired by AC/DC, of which I've heard in many other songs, could actually be a variation of something Muddy Waters thought up, or was insapired to perform by one of his influences. Take that as you will.

WHERE IS WAGNER!!!!!

Seriously, a poet and a visionary, one of the greatest composers of all time, his epic operas can only be described as genious.

My list

1 Wagner
2 Mozart
3 Verdi
4 Delibes
5 Bizet
6 Gounod
7 Greig
8 Carl Maria von Weber
9 Rimsky Korsakov
10 Gershwin

(and i luv Berstein hehe)

Is Shane MacGowan already in any list? If not, he should be.

All this mention of AC/DC, and you forget who influenced them. One of Angus Young's influences is Muddy Waters of Memphis blues fame. With that in mind, Muddy Waters trumps AC/DC for who influenced who. Which means a riff inspired by AC/DC, of which I've heard in many other songs, could actually be a variation of something Muddy Waters thought up, or was insapired to perform by one of his influences. Take that as you will.
I think that you have to look at it carefully. If we just look at influences we have to erase most of the list and boil a lot of them down to Pope Gregory (which, I would argue, deserves to be on the list as the guy who finally went, "You know, you guys need to find a way to start writting this stuff down.." but anyway). I think if you took an influence from a style and adapted it to another style and made it your own, then thats valid. Thats what all the genius' did. The genius is finding out something works where others never thought to even check.

Now, if you think of rock as simply a derivative of blues, and that can be argued, it's a little trickier, but I would say that I don't often confuse Water's and Young's guitar playing and while I might see the influence of on in the other, they don't seem to be the same.

Not to say that I think that Young deserves to be on the list, I don't listen to metal so I can't judge, I was just addressing the reasoning.

For me, I would have to say the Specials. They brought unknown Jamaican dance music to the mainstream, mixing together with the more modern music, and preaching a message of unity between races.

Who are music's elite?

My problem in answering this question is this: what do you mean by "elite"? See, the thread has included artists that are well-known and justly so, as well as some that were innovators or originators -- are they truly elite? I've always thought that all creativity, but especially music, goes through three fairly distinct phases:

INNOVATION: Some musicians (it is NEVER just one) who are well-versed in the music of current popularity begin to take their own craft in a different direction. They add influences and fuse genres or styles in order to create something different and/or new. It's very rare for true innovators to become popular or even recognized as innovators by a wide audience in their own time, or even their own lives.

PERFECTION: These are the musicians who "break out" and become the first who are widely celebrated for what is perceived as a "new" sound. In fact, these are those who were in the right place at the right time with the right sound (and, sadly, since August of 1981, the right look) to become consumable and therefore popular.

MANNERISM: "Top 40" acts who cash in on the genre's perfection or who add just enough of a twist to make it theirs without necessarily becoming an innovator. At this point, fame here becomes a matter of individual taste on the part of the widest audience. Dilution and overexposure live here, but that doesn't mean that all who are mannerists are bad musicians, composers or lyricists. In fact, many are really good.

As you're probably able to figure, these three phases certainly overlap. Some artists have been in more than one phase, and a rare few are in all three. One genre's mannerists get tired of it and re-create themselves, and the cycle began anew. I believe this cycle applies across all genres, though in modern popular music, it can damn near happen overnight anymore. Add the Internet and file sharing, and forget about delineation anymore! But this pattern is really easy to see in choral/operatic/concert/symphonic music before the 20th century, and also clear in jazz from its birth to about 1969 or so.

Long story short, I can't really identify anyone as being elite -- all phases are important and all musicians within them have their role (even if it's to be a nonexample!). So I'll just make my pitch for the three phases and some examples I see from them:

INNOVATORS
Guido d'Arezzo (early choral music and sight-singing)
Guillaume Dufay (early motets)
Claudio Montiverdi (first real opera, Baroque choralist)
Alessandro Scarlatti (Baroque harpsichordist, concerto composer)
Haydn (virtually invents the modern symphony)
Beethoven (shreds Classical form and introduces motives)
Hector Berlioz (shreds orchestration and introduces programmatics)
Carl Maria von Weber (revolutionizes opera)
Richard Strauss (introduces orchestral FORCE and the tone poem)
Arnold Schonberg (serialism, tone rows)
Charles Ives (abstraction)
John Cage (relative insanity & silence)
Luis Moreau Gottschalk (melds Romantic France w/ New Orleans)
Buddy Bolden (likely first jazz notable)
Ma Rainey (made Bessie Smith possible)
Scott Joplin (birthed ragtime and Jelly Roll Morton)
Louis Armstrong (invented the jazz soloist and vocal improvisation)
Billie Holiday (blurred the line between voice and instrument)
James P. Johnson (invented stride piano)
Meade "Lux" Lewis (invented boogie-woogie)
Fletcher Henderson (invented the big-band sound and arrangements)
Duke Ellington (takes jazz to the concert hall)
Thelonious Monk (off-angle composer/pianist; bop pioneer)
Charlie Parker (played for himself, not his audience; bop pioneer)
Louis Jordan (jump blues w/big band presages rock 'n roll)
Eddie Jefferson (jazz band for vocals; lyricized solos and invented vocalese)
Miles Davis (spanned several genres, defied them all; invented fusion)
Dave Brubeck (odd meters made even, throughcomposed jazz composition)
Horace Silver (modern funk owes a lot to him)
Quincy Jones (as producer)
Ornette Coleman (Form? Tonality? Boundaries? What are those?)
Grandmaster Flash/Sugarhill Gang (rap)
Kraftwerk (clang!)
Thomas Dolby (build-your-own synth and make it sound good)
Harry Chapin (storyteller as singer for far more than 3 minutes)
Nile Rogers (disco; producer)
Hugh Padgham/Eric "E.T." Thorngren/Todd Rundgren (producers)

AND MANY MORE...please don't flame me for forgetting your favorites!

PERFECTORS
J.S. Bach
Mozart
Beethoven
Brahms
Alban Berg
Aaron Copland
Bessie Smith
Louis Armstrong
Sarah Vaughan
Joe Williams
Coleman Hawkins
Count Basie
Duke Ellington
Lester Young
Jo Jones
John Birks "Dizzy" Gillespie
Art Blakey
Ray Brown
Clifford Brown
Elvis Presley
The Beatles
Stephen Sondheim
George/Ira Gershwin
Irving Berlin
Carmen McRae
Jon Hendricks (Lambert, Hendricks & Ross)
Chuck Berry
Pink Floyd
Rolling Stones
The Clash
Run DMC
Ozzy Osborne
Blondie
Donna Summer
Steely Dan
Ray Charles
George Clinton
Stan Kenton
Bobby McFerrin (he's more than his hit...which was an accident)
The Police
They Might Be Giants
Nirvana/Pearl Jam
AND MANY MORE......

MANNERISTS (again, they don't necessarily suck, they're just popular)
Johann Strauss (the waltz guy)
Handel
Ravel/Debussy
Ralph Vaughan-Williams
Benjamin Britten
Olivier Messaien
Richard Wagner
George M. Cohan
Jelly Roll Morton
"Fats" Waller
Rodgers & Hart/Hammerstein
Andrew Lloyd Webber
Benny Goodman
George Benson
Al Jarreau
Tommy/Jimmy Dorsey
Glen Miller
Pat Boone/Johnnie Ray
Guy Lombardo (for you, Norleans)
Lionel Hampton
Cab Calloway
Jaco Pastorius/Joe Zawinul (Weather Report)
Bing Crosby
Frank Sinatra
Nat "King" Cole
Little Richard
Manhattan Transfer
Bruce Springsteen
Billy Joel
Aerosmith
Elton John
The Eagles
XTC
Eric Clapton
Madonna
Michael Jackson
Sting
No Doubt
Kiss
Cherry Poppin' Daddies
Eminem
Sean "P. Diddy' Combs
Sarah MacLaughlan
TRUST ME, THERE'S PLENTY MORE OF THESE......

To be sure, much of this is my P.O.V., but even if you disagree with my choices, it'll make you think about why you do. I hope. So there's no elite, there's just music, love it or hate it.

AND MANY MORE...please don't flame me for forgetting your favorites!
"You total hack! How could you forget Eric Dolphy, Pharoah Sanders, Rashaan Roland Kirk, Art Ensemble of Chicago and SUN RA!!! Pff. Poser." Totally kidding. Not about the mentions, about calling you a hack and a poser.



And you mentioned these guys:
Cherry Poppin' Daddies
which means I'm not alone. I usually have to mention that name from under a blanket with my hands over my head and quickly shout out "they'rebetterthanthatsongyesitwasplayedtomuchI'msorrybutIstilllikethem"

I met Bobby McFerrin the year before "Don't Worry, Be Happy" came out. I was already a fan on a chance encounter with one of his albums. At the time I was into all that weird usage stuff, like Stanley whatshisname that played guitar by hammering the fret like a piano and cats like that, so a guy who used himself as a drum and made vocal weirdness was right up my alley. He was a cool guy, with disturbingly talented kids. Cornilius Bumpus was even cooler, but thats another story...

im surprised that theres only been a few fleeting mentions of radiohead so far.

although they have not influenced that many bands (probably because they are so unique), they are, i think, the most succesful band to combine innovation with sucess. i mean that every album radiohead make is in a different style to the last, and they have all (with the exception of anything pre-the bends) been utterly amazing albums. the band are known perfectionists, obviously fantastic musicians (especially the guitarist jonny greenwood, who ranks first in my top three british guitarists of the nineties, along with john squire (stone roses) and graham coxon (blur)). i think what is most amazing about radiohead is how they can, just through listening to one of their albums, make you feel suicidal (which may not be a good thing).

so yeah, radiohead at the top of my list. then the beatles, then kraftwerk, then NWA or someone.

I think the Clash should be on there. Their protopunk started the punk scene altogether -- it was very small until then. They continue to inspire punk rockers to this day, despite how much the music has changed since their time. Anti-Flag, Crass, Bad Religion, Cheap Sex, Black Flag, Sex Pistols, Circle Jerks, Dead Kennedys, NOFX... the list could go on.

Then again, the punk scene in the last ten years has been completely corrupted by pop rockers like Green Day, Blink 182, Sum 41, Nirvana... So, perhaps nothing stays sacred.

Oh well, enough rambling.

Anyone mentioned Billie Holiday yet?

And kraftwerk should be there too.

Possessed. they were a HUGE influence on the start of metal, as were Death.

Do you seriously believe that metal didn't start until 1983 or thereabouts?

1.Mendelssohn
2.Tchaikovsky
3.Dvorak
4.Mozart
5.Brahms
6.Beethoven
7.Green Day
8.Avril Lavigne
9.Simple Plan
10.Led Zepplin
11.50cent
12.Black Eyed Peas

Then again, the punk scene in the last ten years has been completely corrupted by pop rockers like Green Day, Blink 182, Sum 41, Nirvana... So, perhaps nothing stays sacred.

Go listen to Bleach and In Utero.

My top ten picks are...

1. Kaizers Orchestra
2. Bad Religion
3. Led Zeppelin
4. The Beetles
5. B.B. King
6. Black Sabbath
7. The Ramones
8. Johnny Cash
9. Beethoven
10. Ramstein

Comments...

I would put the Red Hot Chili Peppers up there as well m(if we're building on the initial list) they basically invented the whole rap-rock genre.

And well, Beck should go somewhere too. I mean, the man is amazing.

Oh, and also, was Bob Dylan on there? You have to give some credit to quite possibly the best lyricist out there.

I started to post a poll, but decided it wouldn't work for what I wanted so I'm just asking - who are music's elite? Who are the musicians and/or bands that should rank as the "elite" in the world of music? Who has made a difference or changed music and music appreciation in such a fundamental fashion that they deserve to ranked in a class by themselves? I'm posting my ideas. Note, they don't just include rock and roll, I'm talking all through history. My list is not in any particular order and your's needn't be either. I'd just like to know who ya'll think are the "elite"

1. Beethoven
2. Mozart
3. Bach
4. Brahms
5. Louis Armstrong
6. Guy Lombardo
7. Tommy Dorsey
8. The Beatles
9. Elvis
10. Led Zepplin
11. Pink Floyd
12. Janis Joplin
13. B.B. King
14. Billie Holiday
15. Blondie (Deborah Harrie) & Will Smith (D.J. Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince), Run DMC
16. The Rolling Stones
17. The Who
18. Gladys Knight (and the Pips)
19. The Pointer Sisters
20. Buddy Holly
21. Jimi Hendrix
22. Simon & Garfunkel
23. The Grateful Dead
24. Black Sabbath/Ozzy Ozbourne
25. Alice Cooper
26. Frank Zappa
27. Chopin
28. Miles Davis
29. Stravinsky
30. Bob Marley
31. Dizzy Gillespie

Some of you are probably scratching your heads over #15 - I've lumped those 3 together though because they brought rap into the mainstream with the songs "Rapture, "Parents Just Don't Understand," and "Walk This Way (collaberation with Aerosmith). The emergence of rap as a music form and the way it has changed the face of popular music cannot be underestimated and it was these 2 songs that did more to bring rap to the forefront than anything else IMHO. While the muscians involved do not, themselves, rank up there with, say, Led Zepplin, in a "overall" view. The 2 songs noted did as much to change the "face" of music as anything ever has, so they deserve a mention - if only honorable in a strictly ranked list (which this is not).

Puttng the Who behind Led Zeppelin makes baby Jesus cry.

Puttng the Who behind Led Zeppelin makes baby Jesus cry.

Cool, it's a win-win. I'm happy, Jesus is sad.

Cool, it's a win-win. I'm happy, Jesus is sad.

:(

I would put the Red Hot Chili Peppers up there as well m(if we're building on the initial list) they basically invented the whole rap-rock genre.

cough... Aerosmith & RUN DMC doing a version of Walk This Way passed you by? Nevermined the earlier mentioned white guys experimenting with rap like Blondie and The Clash?

Puttng the Who behind Led Zeppelin makes baby Jesus cry.

They are not in any particular order!!

Anyone mentioned Billie Holiday yet?

And kraftwerk should be there too.

Billie is #14 on the original list.

Kraftwerk - nope. Good stuff, yes. Changing music forever, nope.

Kraftwerk - nope. Good stuff, yes. Changing music forever, nope.
Not to be argumenative, but if you take into account that what they where doing was very new given the novelty of what they where using-and the influence that they had on Afrika Bambaata and other early hip-hop pioneers-and then the influence that hip-hop has had, I think that you could argue that Kraftwerk did in a very tangible way change music forever.

Not to be argumenative, but if you take into account that what they where doing was very new given the novelty of what they where using-and the influence that they had on Afrika Bambaata and other early hip-hop pioneers-and then the influence that hip-hop has had, I think that you could argue that Kraftwerk did in a very tangible way change music forever.

Good point - tell you what, how about an "honorable mention?"

I would put the Red Hot Chili Peppers up there as well m(if we're building on the initial list) they basically invented the whole rap-rock genre.

umm, Blondie beat by almost a decade - so no.

And well, Beck should go somewhere too. I mean, the man is amazing.

Amazing yes, but this is about more than amazing - Beck picks up what Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughun didn't live to finish (same reason Eric Clapton and Eddie Van Halen don't make the list).


Oh, and also, was Bob Dylan on there? You have to give some credit to quite possibly the best lyricist out there.

Let me think on that - I could be convinced on that idea I do believe.

Trying to keep to as-yet-unvoiced suggestions here...

I definitely think Joni Mitchell should be added if anyone from the past few decades should- she's been around for about 40 years and still producing, damn near every non-hardcore rock has done a cover of one of her songs (or, in many cases, she wrote a song for a more popular artist), and she's considered pretty deeply influential in all the hippie-peacenik circles.

And, I'm trying to decide whether the fact that I hate Big Star/Alex Chilton is enough to override the fact that they influenced most of my favorite bands and pretty much every flash-in-the-pan. Third/Sister Lovers is some kind of cult classic, though I find it to be 90% self-indulgent tripe. They're pretty definitive power-pop/pre-emo - in the same vein as Gin Blossoms, Coldplay, Wallflowers/Better than Ezra, Modest Mouse, and as many people who are good-but-forgettable as you like.

Anyone mentioned Sonic Youth yet? I'm sure somebody said stuff about R.E.M. (maybe worth a mention, if the list grows long enough, they influenced the scene itself more than the music therein), and Beastie Boys (who I hate, but they did perfect the RapRock mixture- more a complete end-product than an influence). I don't remember seeing The Pixies, but they generally get on these lists.

Oh, and also, was Bob Dylan on there? You have to give some credit to quite possibly the best lyricist out there.

Let me think on that - I could be convinced on that idea I do believe.

A pretty good argument could probably be made for Woody Guthrie in favour of Dylan: yes, Dylan broke that kind of music into the mainstream, but it was massively influenced by Guthrie. I would probably go for WG as an innovator here, but feel tempted to throw in the name of Alan Lomax just to further complicate things: a man who pretty much singlehandedly changed the way we all think about american folk music, old time, the blues and gospel.