NationStates Jolt Archive

This was a very interesting TV programme on just now, actually based on real events. Although the parents were played by actors, all of the lawyers, psychiatrists and social carers played themselves in the re-enactment of this tragic case.

A white couple and a black couple were both unable to conceive so both underwent IVF treatment. An embroyo was produced by the black parents but in an extraordinary mistake, this embroyo was placed into the womb of the white woman.

9 months later, the white woman gave birth to a black boy who they named Jo. Of course, this was completely unexpected and genetic tests were run by hospital. They eventually discovered that genetically Jo was the son of the black couple, who had been unsuccessful at achieving pregancy despite 4 rounds of IVF treatment. They were told this and demanded that as he was genetically their son he should live with them. However during the first 10 months of his life, he was raised by the white couple as their son - he was in most conventional senses their son by birth and treated him no differently.

In court the two cases had very little by which to distinguish them.

The black couple had been caused emotional trauma by the failure of IVF - the black woman had turned to shoplifting baby clothes after each attempt at IVF failed. The woman had also attempted to barge into the house of the white family in order to see Jo. However in most respects, they were a respectable couple. The crux of their case was the issue of colour: in a black house hold, they argued, the baby would know intrisically that there was nothing at all wrong with his colour where as in a white house hold, the parents wouldn't be able to give such steadfast support.

The white couple argued that they had provided Jo with a stable and loving home for the last 10 months and that there was no good reason for moving him. They were in a loving relationship. However there was some hostility from the white grandparents who advocated the view that he would be, in effect, an alien in the household because of his colour. The social carer also argued that the transistion would not effect Jo at this early stage in his emotional development. However they argued that the bond between a birth mother and the child was stronger than that of genetic parents. Also it was noted that the white parents had felt threatened by the black woman's attempt to see her son and had therefore denied her the right to visit while legal proceedings were under way.

The judge announced that the case had to be judged on the emotional interests of Jo. He came to the conclusion that it was in the emotional interests of the baby to be raised by people of his own colour who would be able to provide better emotional support when it was time for Jo to confront a potentially racially hostile world. As the social worker had ruled that it would not be damaging to move the baby, the judge proclaimed that the baby would be given to the black couple with the proviso that the white couple be granted once a month access to the child.

Of course this was an exceptionally difficult case and I am not sure what I would have done were I the judge. Due to the very technological nature of the case (IVF etc) there was no precedent for the judge to follow. So I ask what would you have done?

The bible tells us what we shoud do when something like this happens. Offer to cut the baby in half and give each person half of the bably.

Who the fuck cares about the color of the people involved?

Thats harsh, the babys color shouldnt matter

I think he should be given to his biological parents. If he was older, I would say that he should stay with whoever raised him, but since he was still an infant, his real parents would probably be the best thing for him, regardless of race.

Who the fuck cares about the color of the people involved?

The judge. His ruling was mostly based on the fact that he was of Afro Carribean descent and the fact that the white parents would not be able to fully cope with fact. The white parents would only be able to tell him that his colour was nothing to be ashamed of while with the black parents the child would instinctivly know his colour was fine (thats near word for word of what the black father said as his argument).

I agree with the judge. edit: this'll be enough... let's not start a flame war.
sorry.

The bible tells us what we shoud do when something like this happens. Offer to cut the baby in half and give each person half of the bably.

I don't think the wisdom of Solomon would have applied in this case -- it rather sounds like both women desparately wanted the boy, but I suspect both would prefer him to live rather than to die.

This is a very difficult question. On the one hand, the black woman was unable to conceive despite multiple IVF treatments. So if the white woman hadn't been mistakenly implanted with the wrong embryo, there would be no boy to claim. However, not all of the white family supported having a black child -- some family members clearly find it distasteful. I would argue that having grandparents that didn't like you could have considerable impact on a child.

I don't really know what I would have decided if I were the judge. I'm very glad that the white couple were at least granted visiting rights. If he can have the love of both sets of parents, and they behave maturely and cooperate instead of competing for his attention, then this can still have a reasonably happy ending for everyone.

I still feel bad for a woman to have a wanted baby and not be allowed to keep it though.

she who went thru the pregnancy and gave birth should have the right to own teh baby. it's her property now. it wasn't her fault the hospital messed up, a doctor should give the black parents one of their kids to compensate, or do as many IVF's as it takes for free until they are successful.

At the least, she should be allowed to be a godmother or 'auntie' or something.

She obviously cares about the kid.

Gotta go against the judge on this one. The world's big, people are small, the particularities of the social heritage of those who contributed his genetic material isn't nearly as important as growing up in a stable home. After ten months it's beyond doubt who his parents really are, and though he likely will not retain any "grown up" memory the trauma of losing them will undoubtably leave an indelible impression. The other family that actually gave birth to him invested a lot of time and resources in bringing him into being, a cost that is real, and can't be discounted. While I'm sure the contributors of his genetic material appreciate it, and would have been glad to do so themselves, they didn't. Furthermore, while I'm sure anyone would find the appearent loss of such an important part of one's identity (an ability to have children) extremely stressful, the fact that the would-be mother acted out it such a socially unacceptable way is a pretty big red flag. That's a lot of pressure for a child to come into, particualrly given that as far as he's concerned he's already lost his first set of parents who loved him very much. If anything their victory only makes the wife, who's appearently prone to acting out when highly stressed, more keenly aware that he is their ONLY chance. The presupposition that genetic material and culture ought to match up is ridiculous on it's face given that over the sum of human experience this is the boring exception to the vastly more successful and exciting rule. A fact which most educational systems, through their emphasis on local history as opposed to heredity, implicitly recognize.

Biological parentage doesn't mean anything in the long run. All it affects is your gene set. Who raises you is the important part, because they are the ones who shape your personality and provide you with emotional support. Race really isn't a factor in this. Or at least, it shouldn't be. If all races really are 'equal' why should it even matter what color a child is born? I think that this is actually a pretty racist descision.

I agree with the judge's decision, but strenuously disagree with his reasoning behind it. As far as I am concerned, black and white have nothing to do with it.

This is a case of the white woman becoming the unwilling, unknowing surrogate mother to the black couple. The genetic parents own the material used to produce the embryo, and they released that material to the hospital under the agreement that it would be implanted into the black mother, to produce a child which they would assume responsibility for. They did not release their claim to ownership of that material.

I think it's a tragedy for the white couple, who are clearly the victims in this case. The white woman was, unknowingly and unwittingly, placed in the position of a surrogate mother. It's quite likely that their embryo was implanted in the black woman, and lost. To care for a baby from conception to 10 months means great sacrifice and emotional attachment, and to lose the child after that investment is just terrible. However, they cannot claim the baby just because he was accidentally implanted in the wrong woman. The biological parents own their own genetic material, and did not agree to release it to another party... hence, the baby is theirs.

As the victims in this case, the white couple deserves compensation, and visitation rights are the very least they could ask.

White and black have nothing to do with it. It's strickly a property dispute.

The bible tells us what we shoud do when something like this happens. Offer to cut the baby in half and give each person half of the bably.
those should be programed into NS :D :P

I would have left the baby with the white parents, because the black parents had as stated suffered mental and emotional trauma from the repeated failure at getting pregnant and that's just not a healthy environment for a child, i should know i was raised by crazy parents it's hell.

Also, the white couple seemed to have a very loving relationship and a love for the baby that i just couldn't break. the black couple only loved the child because they found out it was genetically thiers and that they hadn't managed to concieve on thier own. had they seen him on the street i am betting you they wouldn't have been about getting him back because they wouldn't know he was thiers.

Genetic link does not make a parent. i mean my favorite parent was not my own, it was my best friends mom who treated me like a second son. she taught me more than my own parents did and she supported me when my parents kicked me out of the house. that being said. love is what makes a woman a mother and a man a father, not genetics.

If i had to judge this case i would have left things as they were and allowed the black family visitation. it takes a village to raise a child after all. each parent could give something to his life experience the others couldn't and there's no issue that love can't work through. when he got older and had to identify with his race, who's to say the white family couldn't help him through that. true they'd have no experience with what it is to be black but to say they couldn't help him is just like saying that the only help a black man can count on is from black people and that's almost as racist as having black bathrooms and white bathrooms from back in the 20's anyway that's my two cents worth

wow im glad i wasnt that judge, what an extremely difficult case!

i would normally rule in favor of the person who carried the child. in my opinion gestation makes motherhood more than genetics.

color would have NO bearing on the case.

the bio-parents did not give their embryo away. they would not have given it away. they desperately wanted that child themselves.

they were unsuccessful in conceiving and may well have lost this very child if he had been implanted into his bio-mother

the birth parents have been involved for the baby's entire life. they loved him from day one, the bio-parents have already mourned his loss.

the baby was still extremely young

i think i would have ruled as the judge did, that the baby belonged with his bio-parents. his extreme youth and their lack of consent for him to be placed in another woman being the deciding factors (well along with his genetic tie to his bio-parents)

the birth parents never wanted THIS baby even though im sure they love him as much as anyone can love a new baby (which is alot). they did not ask for a donor embryo, they wanted their own bio-baby

the situation sucks big time especially since there can be no blame put on either couple. no one did the wrong thing to bring this on themselves.

so i would rule that the best interest of the child is paramount and a baby belongs with his bio-parents in the absense of other reasons for him to not be with them. the agony of his birth parents do not constitute a reason to keep him with them.

and i would rule that the invitro place would have to work with the birth parents to make sure they get to bear their own child.