NationStates Jolt Archive


Are humans that special?

Iztatepopotla
21-04-2005, 15:56
This is an intriguing piece that's making me think a lot on the nature of intelligence and humanity.

Source (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/04/20/ape.research.ap/index.html)

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Dr. Sue Savage-Rumbaugh sounds like a proud mother when she speaks about her brood of bonobos, eight ultra-intelligent apes that will take part in unique language research meant to shed light on their nature and maybe our own.

The first two bonobos will make the 16-hour road trip from the Language Research Center at Georgia State University to their new $10 million, 13,000-square-foot home near downtown Des Moines later this month. All eight -- three females and five males -- will arrive at the Great Ape Trust of Iowa by mid-May.

Bonobos, a species of ape from the Congo, are the most like humans, Savage-Rumbaugh said. They constantly vocalize "as though they are conversing" and often walk upright.

"If you want to find a human-like creature that exists in a completely natural state ... that creature is the bonobo," said Savage-Rumbaugh, an experimental psychologist who is one of the world's leading ape-language researchers.

If the apes are able to learn language, music and art, once thought to be distinct to humans, then "it strongly suggests that those things are not innate in us," she said.

"Those are things that we have created, and create anew and build upon from one generation to the next ..." she said. "Then we have the power to change it and make it any other way. We could have an ideal world, if we but learn how to do it."

The bonobos will be able to cook in their own kitchen, tap vending machines for snacks, go for walks in the woods and communicate with researchers through computer touchscreens. The decor in their 18-room home includes an indoor waterfall and climbing areas 30 feet high.

The longevity of the project is unlike any other.

The animals, which have a life span of up to about 50 years, will be allowed to mate and have families -- and develop cultures that will be studied for generations to come, Savage-Rumbaugh said.

Visitors are allowed, but they must understand that the Great Ape Trust is not a zoo, she said.

Using a network of cameras and computers, the bonobos can see visitors who ring the doorbell -- and will be able to choose through a computer touchscreen who will be permitted into a secured viewing area.

"Only if they want to open the door can you enter," Savage-Rumbaugh said.

Karen Killmar, an associate curator at the San Diego Zoo, said the Great Ape Trust is unlike other research programs.

"There's studies all over the place in terms of intelligence and learning ability and behavior," she said, "but to be able to sort of pull it all together in one place I think is a wonderful opportunity to give us a much clearer picture of what our closest relatives are."
Drunk commies reborn
21-04-2005, 16:02
Yeah, that's great. And when the apes rise up and enslave humanity like in that Charleton Heston movie we'll know who's to blame.
Kroblexskij
21-04-2005, 16:04
seems to be a bit ott expecting the apes to cook and talk via touch screen. but interesting nonetheless
Iztatepopotla
21-04-2005, 16:05
Yeah, that's great. And when the apes rise up and enslave humanity like in that Charleton Heston movie we'll know who's to blame.
Your next boss may be a monkey!!!

Heck, for some that may already be true :)
Vittos Ordination
21-04-2005, 16:06
The bonobos sound like better roommates than I have.
Sith Dark Lords
21-04-2005, 16:09
I did a little speed reading and there's nothing there that says Bonobo's are sex crazed little maniacs.

Their entire social structure revolves around sex....wait...that sounds a lot like us.
Armed Bookworms
21-04-2005, 16:12
Yeah, that's great. And when the apes rise up and enslave humanity like in that Charleton Heston movie we'll know who's to blame.
Nah, the bonobos will be too busy having hedonistic orgies to enslave humanity.
Ekland
21-04-2005, 16:13
The bonobos sound like better roommates than I have.

This may be true, but I am willing to bet that your roommates don't try to gang rape your ass. :D
Ariddia
21-04-2005, 16:42
This is an intriguing piece that's making me think a lot on the nature of intelligence and humanity.
<Snip>

That's one of the most fascinating things I've read recently. I'll be very interested to see how the situation evolves. It's high-time people started viewing intelligence in relativistic terms anyway. (Anyone remember the ape who once asked, in sign-language, if he could have a pet cat?).
Teh Cameron Clan
21-04-2005, 16:50
im spechul :D
Eutrusca
21-04-2005, 16:56
This is an intriguing piece that's making me think a lot on the nature of intelligence and humanity.

Source (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/04/20/ape.research.ap/index.html)
Humans are no more "special" than anything which lives. We have become the dominant species on Earth because we evolved larger brains, opposable thumbs, and highly developed speech. This is not to be interepreted as privilege, but as both gift and responsibility. As I have said before, I suspect that we, as conscious beings, are part of a continuing effort on the part of the universe ( or God, or whatever term you choose ) to become self-aware. Our purpose as sentient beings is to protect and nurture all life.
Eutrusca
21-04-2005, 16:58
im spechul :D
Yes you are, but we won't go there! :D
Teh Cameron Clan
21-04-2005, 17:00
Yes you are, but we won't go there! :D

:mad:
Willamena
21-04-2005, 17:13
Are humans that special?
For the simple answer to that question, just try replacing "bonobos" with "human" in that story, and then analyse your own feelings towards it.
Lunatic Goofballs
21-04-2005, 17:16
This may be true, but I am willing to bet that your roommates don't try to gang rape your ass. :D

You lose. Pay up. :D

:eek:
Lunatic Goofballs
21-04-2005, 17:17
The Real World: Ape Edition. :D
Sith Dark Lords
21-04-2005, 17:18
the whole roommate rape thing reminds me of a possible urban myth story that circulated around the barracks when I was doing my time.
Iztatepopotla
21-04-2005, 17:22
For the simple answer to that question, just try replacing "bonobos" with "human" in that story, and then analyse your own feelings towards it.
Mmm... nope. Doesn't do anything for me. Sorry.
Sure, I feel more affinity towards a human than to a bonobo, in the same way that I feel more affinity towards my fellow Mexicans than Nigerians, but doesn't make me feel that humans are that separate from some other species in the animal kingdom.
The crux of the matter is: what's intelligence? is having lots of it necessarily a good thing? how are humans different from animals and how are we similar? can animals express themselves? do they have a sense of self? do they have morals? do they have "humanity"?
Pyromanstahn
21-04-2005, 17:41
The crux of the matter is: what's intelligence? is having lots of it necessarily a good thing? how are humans different from animals and how are we similar? can animals express themselves? do they have a sense of self? do they have morals? do they have "humanity"?

Animals obviously have the potential for all of those things, but even if they are starting to get some of them, we have them without a doubt, and far more. I don't think that other animals showing signs of intelligence should mean that our intelligence is any less special.
Dempublicents1
21-04-2005, 17:45
what's intelligence?

Great question!

is having lots of it necessarily a good thing?

Depends on how you use it. =)

how are humans different from animals and how are we similar?

We are animals. =)

can animals express themselves?

Some can. Did you know that Bonobos have an intricate sign language generally used during sex?

do they have a sense of self?

At least some do. When they first starting teaching chimps sign language, people questioned whether it was simple parrotting or actual communication. Among the tests they used to show that they really were talking to the chimp was one where they handed him a stack of pictures and asked him to sort them into two piles - humans and apes. He got every single one right, save one - he put his own picture in the human pile.

do they have morals?

In social animals, absolutely.

Chimps again - have a complex social structure with very set rules that don't seem to be instinctual. For one, incest is absolutely looked down upon.

Some monkeys - have a since of injustice. Become very angered when given a lesser reward than another for the same work. (Only seem to show empathy towards close friends/family members, but that's present in humans too).

Wolves - allow fighting, especially with the lowest member of the pack. However, punishment is swift if one member of the pack actually harms another.

do they have "humanity"?

Guess that depends on how you define it.
Sith Dark Lords
21-04-2005, 17:50
intelligence is the ability to deal with and understand new problems that arise.

All animals are intelligent, we just have a varying degree of intelligence.

Pigs found out that mud can be used to cool their bodies. That in itself is a very intelligent process to maintain proper body temperature.

We're all intelligent, it depends on how we use that intelligence.
Ekland
21-04-2005, 17:51
Humans are no more "special" than anything which lives. We have become the dominant species on Earth because we evolved larger brains, opposable thumbs, and highly developed speech. This is not to be interepreted as privilege, but as both gift and responsibility. As I have said before, I suspect that we, as conscious beings, are part of a continuing effort on the part of the universe ( or God, or whatever term you choose ) to become self-aware. Our purpose as sentient beings is to protect and nurture all life.

Just for the sake of asking a philosophical question.

A gift from whom and a responsibility to do what, why? Furthermore, purpose is by nature designated by a creator. For instance if a person drafts a plan to invade Mexico the designated purpose is, well, to invade Mexico, if someone makes a butter knife it's designated purpose is to cut butter, etc, etc...

So, how did we come to have a purpose? If we don't have one, do we then have nothing to live up to?