NationStates Jolt Archive

I haven't lived an exemplary life for most of my life, and only recently consider myself "saved" - that is, I have the gut feeling that I'm on better terms with God.

And not to say that my religion or way is any better than anyone else's - it's just what's worked for me.

And not to go into "show me a proof of God's existence". I've seen enough to convince me - I'm not interested in proving it to anyone else.

The question I'd like to leave you with is this:

Why are so many religious people so convinced that they are "saved" in the sense that they are now permanently "clean" - they believe that somehow this experience has transformed them into something "better" than other people, and that somehow, they are in a position to save and judge others?

Why are so many religious people so convinced that they are "saved" in the sense that they are now permanently "clean" - they believe that somehow this experience has transformed them into something "better" than other people, and that somehow, they are in a position to save and judge others?

i think those who are truely religious and christian don't look down on others of different religious affiliation. they just want others to know because if they know they have a chance to choose what they want. any good christian will respect those of other religions

I think that religion can help but is not necessary for everyone to have a spiritual life

Sometimes I think that it is the religions fault for creating such judgemental followers, at the same time telling people not to be judgemental, they tell you to go out and tell everyone that their way of living is wrong and you can help save them from eternal hellfire.

I know quite a few people in diff religions that aren't that way and can see the hypocricy of doing such things. Those people I can respect when they speak about their religion.

It's nice that you don't seee your way as teh only way.

I've also experienced spirit enough to believe in its existence without doubt.

It is yet another example of how the world has affected even the church. People think that they are saved and so they can do whatever they want. Wrong If one is truly saved, he/she will not return to his/her old ways. That is the principle of being reborn comes from anyways. And on being able to judge others, on a spiritual level I assume. True it is said that if you can't convince someone, "dust your feet" and be done with them, but don't look down upon them as if you are better. That's pride right there. And the Catholic Church with the Confessional. A priest is still a man, he cannot forgive sin, only God can.

Why are so many religious people so convinced that they are "saved" in the sense that they are now permanently "clean" - they believe that somehow this experience has transformed them into something "better" than other people, and that somehow, they are in a position to save and judge others?

Well I think you must be mis-interpreting what they are saying then.

Christians are not in a position to save others. They are in a position to spread the word about Jesus and about who he was and what he did.

Chrisitians cannot judge others sin, because sin is something we all have. Plank and wood come to mind. We can explain what is and isnt a sin but we cant label people sinners because everyone is a sinner. No one is better/worse for that.

Why are so many religious people so convinced that they are "saved" in the sense that they are now permanently "clean" - they believe that somehow this experience has transformed them into something "better" than other people, and that somehow, they are in a position to save and judge others?

What do you mean 'many.' It's more like 'virtually all' religious people*. Those who are convinced that they are damned soon lose interest in it, and stop bothering people with their 'sky-pixie' stories.

Take india for example. You'll just be walking down the street, and there will be a crowd of people standing around some deranged old fuck because he is a 'holy man' and has invariably done something stupid like not wash for 20 years. Meanwhile, despite this outward manifestation of mental subnormality, he'll be happily dispensing advice to all and sundry.

Name a religion, and it's usually chock-full of adherents who are judging the rest of the world, because of their 'special' insight to the nature of god.

The epicureans were right.

*Except for those that have the decency to go live in caves and be hermits.

Why are so many religious people so convinced that they are "saved" in the sense that they are now permanently "clean" - they believe that somehow this experience has transformed them into something "better" than other people, and that somehow, they are in a position to save and judge others?
i've never met such a religious person, but i don't doubt they exist...i do believe that i am "clean", as u put it, but only in the sense that my sins have been washed away, that is i can enter heaven. i detest it when others go around giving christians a bad name by seeing themselves as better....my only answer to your question is that they are hyppocrites, whether by choice or accident. i'd like to point out the story of the pharisee and the tax collector in the Bible, where he who is holy and knows it ceases to be so, while he who is not and is repentive becomes so.

I think that religion can help but is not necessary for everyone to have a spiritual life

Sometimes I think that it is the religions fault for creating such judgemental followers, at the same time telling people not to be judgemental, they tell you to go out and tell everyone that their way of living is wrong and you can help save them from eternal hellfire.

I know quite a few people in diff religions that aren't that way and can see the hypocricy of doing such things. Those people I can respect when they speak about their religion.

It's nice that you don't seee your way as teh only way.

I've also experienced spirit enough to believe in its existence without doubt.

Interesting viewpoint. The idea is not to tell everyone that they're wrong, nor should it be. That, I believe, is a matter that one must realise for themselves - nobody can tell you you're wrong (on this, anyway) - you have to work it out for yourself.

What I mean by this is that you shouldn't go pointing fingers at people and accuse them of being damned, going to hell etc. Not only is that self-righteous (which isn't good in the eyes of God), it doesn't usually work.

I personally hate the word religion, as religion is considered rules and regulations. Yes, there are certain rule per se that one is expected to live by (ie the ten commandments) but there are some pointless reglulations in many denominations of the Church.

I also don't understand the division among the various denominations. Yeah, I understand why it exists (humans giving in to their temptation) but I wonder why people don't realise how much it acts to their denomination's detriment. I personally do not call myself to be of a specific denomination (indeed, I choose to call myself a non-denominational Christian).

I am not the type to discredit the views of other denominations - as their views are essentially the same; it is merely the outworkings which are different. I choose this action because I understand the precise reason why the denominations exist: there are different types of people, and different methods of service etc. work for them.

That said, I don't agree with the Mormon's addition of the extra book/s which disagree with the rest of the Bible.

And the Catholic Church with the Confessional. A priest is still a man, he cannot forgive sin, only God can.

he can forgive sin; but he's not doing that for the person instead of God. he merely helps the person along. you are there because you are confessing and are asking forgiveness from God through the priest

What do you mean 'many.' It's more like 'virtually all' religious people*. Those who are convinced that they are damned soon lose interest in it, and stop bothering people with their 'sky-pixie' stories.

Take india for example. You'll just be walking down the street, and there will be a crowd of people standing around some deranged old fuck because he is a 'holy man' and has invariably done something stupid like not wash for 20 years. Meanwhile, despite this outward manifestation of mental subnormality, he'll be happily dispensing advice to all and sundry.

Name a religion, and it's usually chock-full of adherents who are judging the rest of the world, because of their 'special' insight to the nature of god.

The epicureans were right.

*Except for those that have the decency to go live in caves and be hermits.

I can say what I have met many people who adhere to a certain religion but feel that there are many roads up the mountain and that they all lead to the same peak.

Interesting viewpoint. The idea is not to tell everyone that they're wrong, nor should it be. That, I believe, is a matter that one must realise for themselves - nobody can tell you you're wrong (on this, anyway) - you have to work it out for yourself.

What I mean by this is that you shouldn't go pointing fingers at people and accuse them of being damned, going to hell etc. Not only is that self-righteous (which isn't good in the eyes of God), it doesn't usually work.

I personally hate the word religion, as religion is considered rules and regulations. Yes, there are certain rule per se that one is expected to live by (ie the ten commandments) but there are some pointless reglulations in many denominations of the Church.

I also don't understand the division among the various denominations. Yeah, I understand why it exists (humans giving in to their temptation) but I wonder why people don't realise how much it acts to their denomination's detriment. I personally do not call myself to be of a specific denomination (indeed, I choose to call myself a non-denominational Christian).

I am not the type to discredit the views of other denominations - as their views are essentially the same; it is merely the outworkings which are different. I choose this action because I understand the precise reason why the denominations exist: there are different types of people, and different methods of service etc. work for them.

That said, I don't agree with the Mormon's addition of the extra book/s which disagree with the rest of the Bible.

I understand what the idea is in trying to help people who may be "lost" and trying to help give them a better life, or bring happiness/peace into their life. I don't think many churches do that though. I think they do it in regards to a belief that they are right while everyone else is wrong and are going to suffer eternally for it. At east thats how they push it onto their own members as that is what I hear coming out of their mouths when they try to preach it to me.

It's the concept of the priest serving as an intermediary though. It's not required. The tearing of the veil on Christ's death affirms this. The laypeople can go straight to God himself through prayer and ask for forgiveness. There is no need for a third party like a priest. "I acknowledged my sin unto thee... I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin..." Psalm 32:5 (KJV)

It's the concept of the priest serving as an intermediary though. It's not required. The tearing of the veil on Christ's death affirms this. The laypeople can go straight to God himself through prayer and ask for forgiveness. There is no need for a third party like a priest. "I acknowledged my sin unto thee... I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin..." Psalm 32:5 (KJV)

sometimes people need reassurance and answers on what to do. you don't always get that from god or the bible

I know, I know. It's just that the overemphasis on that guidance has caused people to lose sight of God.

I can say what I have met many people who adhere to a certain religion but feel that there are many roads up the mountain and that they all lead to the same peak.

How do you account for the fact that Islam and Christianity contradict each other. Both (or none) cannot be true at once. Religion is not a choice like picking a flavour of ice-cream, It's much more important than that, why else is there all these arguments about it?

How do you account for the fact that Islam and Christianity contradict each other. Both (or none) cannot be true at once. Religion is not a choice like picking a flavour of ice-cream, It's much more important than that, why else is there all these arguments about it?

Me, I could care less about religion myself. Those that I know who follwo their own religion but accept others as being just as valid (despite contraditions - as we know the Christian bible contradicts itself, so how could it contain any truth at all?) because they only see their religion as a sort of sign post pointing them in the direction they want to go. They may all use different roads, but they are all headed toward the same peak. :P

Personally I think religion is more of a hinderance but that is only for the people who take everything they read or hear form their religious leaders so literally.

(despite contraditions - as we know the Christian bible contradicts itself, so how could it contain any truth at all?)

Would you like to point out some contridictions, or other inconsistances you see that you dont understand. And not just little trivial ones, but ones with actual consequence.

Those who judge generally aren't actually sure that they're saved - and *that* is why they are so pushy.

If you aren't secure in your faith, you need the approval of others to be more sure.

Would you like to point out some contridictions, or other inconsistances you see that you dont understand. And not just little trivial ones, but ones with actual consequence.

No I wouldn't like to do that.

I am not making any cases against any religions. I am not here to disprove anything. Merely putting my my two cents about why I think so many religious peeps act like they are better than other people that don't share the same beliefs.

What you are asking for NC is something that shoudl be in another thread and has no doubt been posted in many other threads over and over and over...

How do you account for the fact that Islam and Christianity contradict each other. Both (or none) cannot be true at once. Religion is not a choice like picking a flavour of ice-cream, It's much more important than that, why else is there all these arguments about it?

Actually they have both parts of the truth. Granted, it matters which sect/group of the religion, but you will find a kernal of truth within each.

You see, the argument should not be that your church/religion is the only one with answers, but that your church has the most!

I personally find my own religion has the most of them all, but there are many peices of truth in others that cannot be denied. It just all religions seem to lose focus and add stuff that takes away true message of god.

Example, Muhammed didn't say women must cover themselves any more than men(both are supposed to dress modestly). But the religion practices that women need to instead...

Why are so many religious people so convinced that they are "saved" in the sense that they are now permanently "clean" - they believe that somehow this experience has transformed them into something "better" than other people, and that somehow, they are in a position to save and judge others?
I think some of these people have genuinely misunderstood things. As far as God is concerned the only difference between and Charles Manson is that I have a relationship with Christ. I'm no better than anyone else. A Christian who witnesses is just one beggar telling another begga where they've found food.

Honestly, if you're growing closer to God, you should be more aware of the sin in your life. When Issaih saw God in the temple he knew how sinful he was "Woe am I for I am a man of unclean lips and come from a people of unclean lips and my eyes have seen the Lord Almighty" You realise the only clean in your life comes from the Grace of God, not anything you've done.

Would you like to point out some contridictions, or other inconsistances you see that you dont understand. And not just little trivial ones, but ones with actual consequence.
There's already another thread for this called "Bible Contradictions". Let's try and keep this thread close enough to on topic.

I can say what I have met many people who adhere to a certain religion but feel that there are many roads up the mountain and that they all lead to the same peak.

I'll bet none of those roads was atheism though.

And those who believe in the many roads, tend to judge other people who claim that their sky-pixie told them that there is only one road. All of this, naturally, based upon the teachings of the particular sky-pixie in question.

Religious people are judgmental, and prejudiced. It's the nature of religion.

I'll bet none of those roads was atheism though.

no, none of those people were atheistz. lol

I don't see why a person who doesn't believe in God would say something like that. Although I guess it's possible. *shrug*So I will concede that point to you. Although I will say that I think Atheism can lead to spirit.


And those who believe in the many roads, tend to judge other people who claim that their sky-pixie told them that there is only one road. All of this, naturally, based upon the teachings of the particular sky-pixie in question.

There may be some who act that way yes, but I dont want to make any generalizations. but I would argue that the person who believes in only one road is not getting judged for their belief but for their insistance on pushing their beliefs on others.


Religious people are judgmental, and prejudiced. It's the nature of religion.

I think that judging people is a human thing, not a religious thing. Religion just uses it effectively.

It is yet another example of how the world has affected even the church. People think that they are saved and so they can do whatever they want. Wrong If one is truly saved, he/she will not return to his/her old ways. That is the principle of being reborn comes from anyways. And on being able to judge others, on a spiritual level I assume. True it is said that if you can't convince someone, "dust your feet" and be done with them, but don't look down upon them as if you are better. That's pride right there. And the Catholic Church with the Confessional. A priest is still a man, he cannot forgive sin, only God can.

It doesn't say that. Jesus said, shake the dust from your feet to the disciples about people who didn't help them. That was only referring to the Jews and he said so very specifically. I hate when people misquote the bible.

Actually they have both parts of the truth. Granted, it matters which sect/group of the religion, but you will find a kernal of truth within each.

You see, the argument should not be that your church/religion is the only one with answers, but that your church has the most!

I personally find my own religion has the most of them all, but there are many peices of truth in others that cannot be denied. It just all religions seem to lose focus and add stuff that takes away true message of god.

Example, Muhammed didn't say women must cover themselves any more than men(both are supposed to dress modestly). But the religion practices that women need to instead...

ok, ok I'll rephrase what I said to make it clearer, Islam and Christianity can't both be wholly true, it's either or nothing.

But yes, I agree that every religion has some grain of truth, just some are closer to the truth than others.

No I wouldn't like to do that.

I am not making any cases against any religions. I am not here to disprove anything. Merely putting my my two cents about why I think so many religious peeps act like they are better than other people that don't share the same beliefs.

What you are asking for NC is something that shoudl be in another thread and has no doubt been posted in many other threads over and over and over...

You stated that the Christian Bible contridicts itself, I quoted you saying it. I am therefore entitled to challenge you on it.

Why are so many religious people so convinced that they are "saved" in the sense that they are now permanently "clean" - they believe that somehow this experience has transformed them into something "better" than other people, and that somehow, they are in a position to save and judge others?

Surely cannot give you an answer to that question - but I strongly believe that those "saved, better people" are the most ignorant people around: They are not saved, they are eternally condemned to believe their own lie. You will act accordingly when truely touched by the grace of God (or however else that might show) but definitely not in putting yourself to the top - that sounds more like a trick "Satan" or some other "evil one" would pull :D

As for you, Whispering Legs, it's a good feeling, isn't it?