NationStates Jolt Archive

Lets get debatin people.

Lets get debatin people.

Against it. Only the police & the military should have them. No hunting. No feeding the deers. Leave them alone.

Actually, weapons are bad. Ban'em all. Use sticks and stones. Little ones. Silicics. Gravel. Sand. Hey, take mud if you like - that's always good for a good laugh.

I fucking hate weapons. People are too stupid to live around weapons.

No. Weapons. G'Night. (P.S.: Congrats to "Habemus Papam" if you belong to them :) )

Guns are good but the NRA are nuts
Rifles Shotguns Pistols are fine but what the hell do you need automatics for?
you can't hunt with them, if you need it to defend yourself you are a crap shot and you are more likely to hit innocents. there is reasons cops do not walk around with AK-47's
Only people with autos should be Defense Forces and necessay branches of Law Enforcement
Australia gun ownership laws are draconian but at least you don't get shooting sprees anymore

I'm on the left politically

guns are fun, I want to own one but...

1. kids should under NO circumstances own a gun
2. if I got laid off from my job and my (hypothetical) wife left me for my evil boss who bought and destroyed my house. I'd shoot him out of crased anger. Guns + one working finger + mindlessness (from youth, insanity, drunkeness) = dead people
3. If i was being robbed the robber would shoot me faster and more accuratly than i can shoot him
4. no one likes it when young kids accidentally blow their own heads off with dad's pistol

I say just put up NRA stickers on my windows to prevent robbery

but you never know when the zombies will rise and you will need a handy semi-automatic carbine. :sniper:

...but you never know when the zombies will rise and you will need a handy semi-automatic carbine. :sniper:

Oh man - that is so totally me: Good thinking, I totally agree. And we don't even have automatic weapons over here. Only the police. A few. And the military. But John Doe? He's got a fire extinguisher and a kitchen knife. And a swiss army knife, duct tape and chewing gum. But he ain't no MacGyver...

I think gun ownership, on the basic level, should be regulated as little as possible (owner is an adult, hasn't committed a federal offense, had training to use gun). When we start getting up into automatic weapons, I think a permit and more rigorous training should be necessary.

When we start getting up into automatic weapons, I think a permit and more rigorous training should be necessary.

To do what? Kill the postman 'cause your kids look like him?

To do what? Kill the postman 'cause your kids look like him?
That example is of a highly non sequitir nature; really doesn't make any sense to my idea of permits for use of automatic weapons. But hey, as long as you don't threaten to or take away the life of another human (except for self-defense, of course), what you do with your firearm is none of my business

I own a small yellow plastic gun that fires small plastic chickens. I think everyone should own one.

Guns are good but the NRA are nuts
Rifles Shotguns Pistols are fine but what the hell do you need automatics for?
you can't hunt with them, if you need it to defend yourself you are a crap shot and you are more likely to hit innocents. there is reasons cops do not walk around with AK-47's
Only people with autos should be Defense Forces and necessay branches of Law Enforcement
Australia gun ownership laws are draconian but at least you don't get shooting sprees anymore

Do you know the difference between "automatics"? A rifle can be an "automatic", so can a shotgun and a pistol.

The police just walk around w/ AR-15 "assault weapons" w/ the sights on backwards.

Could you show me where the NRA supports non-registered fully automatic? weapons

Against it. Only the police & the military should have them. No hunting. No feeding the deers. Leave them alone.

Actually, weapons are bad. Ban'em all. Use sticks and stones. Little ones. Silicics. Gravel. Sand. Hey, take mud if you like - that's always good for a good laugh.

I fucking hate weapons. People are too stupid to live around weapons.

No. Weapons. G'Night. (P.S.: Congrats to "Habemus Papam" if you belong to them :) )


Classic Hoplophobe.

I'm from North Carolina, and it never fails to amaze me that around here those who most need a gun never have one and those who least need one always seem to feel otherwise.

For instance, if you are a single women whose abusive ex-husband, after having said repeatedly he's going to find and kill you, is about to be let out of jail, GET A F***ING GUN!!!! I can't count how many times I've flipped on the news or read the paper or turned on the radio to hear the exact same story, a few times even twice on the same day. Mrs Y just never thought a good Christian like T-John would ever do such a thing. Well guess what Mrs Y: your Ex was sent to prison. You should have had a gun.

And if you're living in an upper-middleclass suburb whose last serious crime was teenagers stealing the local street sign, what exactly do you have a gun to protect yourself against?? That's something a paranoid schitzophreniac like my crazy aunt would do. And believe me, I'd never attend a single family reunion at her house if I ever found out she had one :eek:.

There are situations that call for protection and there are situations where having a gun is a liability. I just wish the realities of gun ownership weren't so ass-backwards from what the situation calls for.


The craziest gun owner I ever knew slept with a loaded gun under his pillow. Slept. I use past tense for a reason.

I'm on the left politically

guns are fun, I want to own one but...

1. kids should under NO circumstances own a gun
2. if I got laid off from my job and my (hypothetical) wife left me for my evil boss who bought and destroyed my house. I'd shoot him out of crased anger. Guns + one working finger + mindlessness (from youth, insanity, drunkeness) = dead people
3. If i was being robbed the robber would shoot me faster and more accuratly than i can shoot him
4. no one likes it when young kids accidentally blow their own heads off with dad's pistol

I say just put up NRA stickers on my windows to prevent robbery

but you never know when the zombies will rise and you will need a handy semi-automatic carbine. :sniper:


1. Why not? w/ the proper education and training a 10yr old can be safer and more accurate than the police.

2. If you feel you might do that, you shouldn't own a gun.

3. Not if you practice.

4. Agreed. Which is why education and safety training are most important when young. Cases like this most often occur when the parents try to hide the firearms and act like they don't exist.

1. kids should under NO circumstances own a gun:

Legally, they can't "own" one. However, I think education is essential for kids, including education on firearms, how to repair and keep them, and how to properly use them.

I'm from North Carolina, and it never fails to amaze me that around here those who most need a gun never have one and those who least need one always seem to feel otherwise.

For instance, if you are a single women whose abusive ex-husband, after having said repeatedly he's going to find and kill you, is about to be let out of jail, GET A F***ING GUN!!!! I can't count how many times I've flipped on the news or read the paper or turned on the radio to hear the exact same story, a few times even twice on the same day. Mrs Y just never thought a good Christian like T-John would ever do such a thing. Well guess what Mrs Y: your Ex was sent to prison. You should have had a gun.



Unfortunately, "Gun Safety" groups like HCI and MMM have been spreading the message for years that women should rely soley on the police and orders of protection to keep violent SO's away.

Oh man - that is so totally me: Good thinking, I totally agree. And we don't even have automatic weapons over here. Only the police. A few. And the military. But John Doe? He's got a fire extinguisher and a kitchen knife. And a swiss army knife, duct tape and chewing gum. But he ain't no MacGyver...

hmm... I think Joh Doe needs a bit of community watch attention. You know, just to make sure he isn't sneaking out of the house at night with his little mystery-kit. ;)

"1. kids should under NO circumstances own a gun"

That is very offensive to me. I am an avid shooter (targets, at this point), enjoy skeet shooting and pretty soon, I will be getting into hunting.

I am educated in the safe handing and use of rifles and shotguns. I'm also pretty damn accurate.

Don't presume I'm gun-stupid because I'm young.

I need my gun to protect me from......THEY.

"1. kids should under NO circumstances own a gun"

That is very offensive to me. I am an avid shooter (targets, at this point), enjoy skeet shooting and pretty soon, I will be getting into hunting.

I am educated in the safe handing and use of rifles and shotguns. I'm also pretty damn accurate.

Don't presume I'm gun-stupid because I'm young.

Try not to be offended by him specifically. That's the kind of message that Anti-Rights groups spread, that a "kid" w/ a gun will automatically turn it on themselves or friends because they can't know any better. Hundreds of thousands of "kids" nationwide (including you I presume) are educated properly about firearms and can use them safely.

w00t.

I strongly support ownership of any gun.

If someone tries to get my guns, they will be eating hot lead. Besides, Satanic Priests need to have guns so we can protect ourselfs.

Posted by the Satanic Priest, Lord Medivh

I strongly support ownership of any gun.

If someone tries to get my guns, they will be eating hot lead. Besides, Satanic Priests need to have guns so we can protect ourselfs.

Posted by the Satanic Priest, Lord Medivh

As creepy as that is, the First and Second Amendments are not exclusive to eachother.

you are all so short-sighted and trusting of human nature... you have to realise that this would not just apply to YOU but the rest of the two hundred or so million americans.

Sure you could use the excuse "FI someone wants to shoot someone they'll get a gun no matter what"... but WHY IN THE NAME OF THE GOOD LORD WOULD YOU WANT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM? They'd have to think thoroughly as to what they are doing and by the time they get a gun might second-guess their actions.

Jesus all of you saying "Training is necessary but otherwise its okay" need to learn something about human nature and how it isnt consistant to your own personal habbits.

you are all so short-sighted and trusting of human nature... you have to realise that this would not just apply to YOU but the rest of the two hundred or so million americans.

Sure you could use the excuse "FI someone wants to shoot someone they'll get a gun no matter what"... but WHY IN THE NAME OF THE GOOD LORD WOULD YOU WANT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM? They'd have to think thoroughly as to what they are doing and by the time they get a gun might second-guess their actions.

Jesus all of you saying "Training is necessary but otherwise its okay" need to learn something about human nature and how it isnt consistant to your own personal habbits.
The bit about trading freedom for security...

You can't cure stupidity but you can take guns away from stupid people. No reason to own one unless you are running form the mob. Too many kids getting in trouble and worse. Keep them out of schools please. I teach and i always manage to piss off at least one student every day. Some of these students do not have parents who watch over them or teach them the right way to deal with anger. Add a handgun laying around in Grandpa's closet and this is a recipe for disaster. School should be the one place of safety for kids.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud :cool:

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud :cool:
Freud...I dig Freud. Or at least parts of his theories.

Lets get debatin people.

I have my guns. If you want to take from me, come and get them. ;)

Freud...I dig Freud. Or at least parts of his theories.

Same, some of his stuff was actually really good. The rest of it really does make you wonder HE was the one that had lost his mind. He does have some great quotes, one way or another.

you are all so short-sighted and trusting of human nature... you have to realise that this would not just apply to YOU but the rest of the two hundred or so million americans.

Sure you could use the excuse "FI someone wants to shoot someone they'll get a gun no matter what"... but WHY IN THE NAME OF THE GOOD LORD WOULD YOU WANT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM? They'd have to think thoroughly as to what they are doing and by the time they get a gun might second-guess their actions.

Jesus all of you saying "Training is necessary but otherwise its okay" need to learn something about human nature and how it isnt consistant to your own personal habbits.

So you think disarming Law Abiding Citizens and responsible firearm owners will improve society?

No reason to own one unless you are running form the mob. Too many kids getting in trouble and worse. Keep them out of schools please. I teach and i always manage to piss off at least one student every day. Some of these students do not have parents who watch over them or teach them the right way to deal with anger. Add a handgun laying around in Grandpa's closet and this is a recipe for disaster. School should be the one place of safety for kids.

Or you're a hunter, or collector, or competative target shooter, or skeet shooter, or farmer, or believe in the right of self defense.

The "Gun Free" school zones have worked real well. They allow those students and other who do commit crimes areas where they know there will be nobody able to defend themselves.

That's the kind of message that Anti-Rights groups spread, that a "kid" w/ a gun will automatically turn it on themselves or friends because they can't know any better.

No actually your kids have to be smoking weed too if they're going to shoot themselves. What are you trying to pull here? I know my Harold&Kumar! :D

I believe that (In the U.S.A.), the Right to Bear Arms serves a very important purpose; namely to protect us from enemies. Especially Tyrrany of government.

I also believe that guns are crutches for the weak.

but you never know when the zombies will rise and you will need a handy semi-automatic carbine. :sniper:


thats true.

Its the greatest fear of most north american gun nuts

No actually your kids have to be smoking weed too if they're going to shoot themselves. What are you trying to pull here? I know my Harold&Kumar! :D




NO. the problem willl only arise when your kids try to smoke weed OUT of the gun.

That or if the play computer games.

So a gaming, weed-mad, gun-toting kid is pretty damn dangerous, and should be locked in achurch until they come to there senses.

I'm a Democrat (actually I lean more Green) and I'm extremely fond of guns. I'm also a vegan and I don't even kill insects. I see no reason why responsible people shouldn't be able to own a firearm, provided they show their responsibility through some sort of licensing examination and exercise the proper precautions. Call me a "Hunter S. Thompson Democrat"

So a gaming, weed-mad, gun-toting kid is pretty damn dangerous, and should be locked in achurch until they come to there senses.

Oh. And weed doesn't make you mad. But that's not the debate we're having, is it?

Ownership of guns is a matter of choice. Some people don't like them, they shouldn't have one. Some don't know how to use them, they shouldn't have one until they do. Guns are tools and depend on the owners for their use. I got my first .22 when I was 13 years old, but my dad started teaching me respect for guns and how to use them when I was 4 or 5. I now have 4 guns. (a .303 British Enfield, my .22, a .40 cal. S&W Glock and a .380 Colt Silver Eagle). I know how to use them and don't fear them. I don't care who else does or does not have them, as long as those that do, know how to use them. If you choose not to have them, I don't care. Just because someone doesn't "need" one doesn't mean they shouldn't have one if they want to. I think the odds I'll ever feel a need to use my pistols for self-defense are pretty small. That doesn't mean I shouldn't have pistol since I wanted one and know how to use it.

I own a small yellow plastic gun that fires small plastic chickens. I think everyone should own one.

i want the chicken gun from ratchett and clank :gundge:

"1. kids should under NO circumstances own a gun"

That is very offensive to me. I am an avid shooter (targets, at this point), enjoy skeet shooting and pretty soon, I will be getting into hunting.

I am educated in the safe handing and use of rifles and shotguns. I'm also pretty damn accurate.

Don't presume I'm gun-stupid because I'm young.


i happen to agree with him..no child should have unsupervised access to a fire arm EVER..period.

supervised? sure...education is the key...

Oh. And weed doesn't make you mad. But that's not the debate we're having, is it?


*whispers* i think that part was sarcasm

i happen to agree with him..no child should have unsupervised access to a fire arm EVER..period.

supervised? sure...education is the key...

No child under, say, nine years old, maybe. Depends on the circumstance and the child. Education means you can exercise control over an object or concept autonomously as well as under instruction.

*whispers* i think that part was sarcasm
*whispers*Sometimes it's hard to tell, with some of the good people you encounter here.

No child under, say, nine years old, maybe. Depends on the circumstance and the child. Education means you can exercise control over an object or concept autonomously as well as under instruction.


nope, i don't think a child under 18 at oldest, 16 at youngest, should have unsupervised access to a fire arm...

your kid likes to go hunting? go with him

your kid likes to shoot skeet? go with her

i've had two friends shot and killed, one was 14 shot by a 17 year old friend with a .357 in the face, the other was 17 shot by his 13 year old cousin with a .22 in the chest (direct shot to the heart, eh bled to death in a couple of minutes or less)...no child should EVER have unsupervised access to a fire arm

*whispers*Sometimes it's hard to tell, with some of the good people you encounter here.

good point

Oh. And weed doesn't make you mad. But that's not the debate we're having, is it?
You mean Reefer Madness was all a big lie? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

nope, i don't think a child under 18 at oldest, 16 at youngest, should have unsupervised access to a fire arm...

your kid likes to go hunting? go with him

your kid likes to shoot skeet? go with her

i've had two friends shot and killed, one was 14 shot by a 17 year old friend with a .357 in the face, the other was 17 shot by his 13 year old cousin with a .22 in the chest (direct shot to the heart, eh bled to death in a couple of minutes or less)...no child should EVER have unsupervised access to a fire arm

I took my .22 out by myself when I was 14. I never even came close to shooting anyone. The problem is with training and education and respect for what a gun can do. I'm sorry for the loss of your friends, but it sounds like 2 kids were not properly educated on gun safety. At 14, I would never have had my gun in a position where someone could get shot by accident. It depends on the background and maturity of the child - a blanket prohibition isn't called for until you get down to, maybe, age 12 or so.

I took my .22 out by myself when I was 14. I never even came close to shooting anyone. The problem is with training and education and respect for what a gun can do. I'm sorry for the loss of your friends, but it sounds like 2 kids were not properly educated on gun safety. At 14, I would never have had my gun in a position where someone could get shot by accident. It depends on the background and maturity of the child - a blanket prohibition isn't called for until you get down to, maybe, age 12 or so.

respectfully disagree *shrugs*

having been that age, and knowing the bullshit that goes through a pubescent mind, i don't trust kids with guns..hell, i would like to say anyone under say 30..maybe 25...but that's extreme.

there is no reason at all for a person under 16 to be out alone with a gun. none.

nope, i don't think a child under 18 at oldest, 16 at youngest, should have unsupervised access to a fire arm...

your kid likes to go hunting? go with him

your kid likes to shoot skeet? go with her

i've had two friends shot and killed, one was 14 shot by a 17 year old friend with a .357 in the face, the other was 17 shot by his 13 year old cousin with a .22 in the chest (direct shot to the heart, eh bled to death in a couple of minutes or less)...no child should EVER have unsupervised access to a fire arm

Clearly parents have to evaluate the need for guns and the interest their children have in hunting. I think sixteen is extreme in most circumstances. Children need education to properly handle guns, but can learn effectively at a young age to appropriately use them. Most kids I knew on farms were proficient by ten years-old, and some without farms hunted with those same kids at the same age, without problems. I would wonder what type of education those child-murderers you gave as example had.

there is no reason at all for a person under 16 to be out alone with a gun. none.

Perhaps if coyotes are approaching his or her family's herd, or if crows are in his or her family's silo? Or should they allow their livelihood's destruction out of fear their education is incomplete? And don't kids under sixteen need to defend themselves in some instances, like the rest of us? How about the kid walking his family's week's revenue from their store to the bank in a crime-prone neighborhood, should they go unarmed?

respectfully disagree *shrugs*

having been that age, and knowing the bullshit that goes through a pubescent mind, i don't trust kids with guns..hell, i would like to say anyone under say 30..maybe 25...but that's extreme.

there is no reason at all for a person under 16 to be out alone with a gun. none.

Respectfull disagreement noted. Also, maybe today, a person under 16 shouldn't be out with a gun unsupervised due to the changes in society since I was 14 back in 1974. I'll concede that possibility. However, I assure you that when I was 14 and took my gun out squirrel, rabbit and coon hunting by myself, there was no concern over safety.

I think you should be able to own a gun, but you should have to keep it in a registered gun storage facility. You can then check it out, kind of like a library, for when you need to go hunting, kill your boss, etc...

You don't need a gun to protect yourself from a robber, especially one who has to check out his guns. If you know who has the guns, then you can more easily tell who kills someone.

Of course, this means there would be illegal rings of gun sellers, just like with alcohol during prohibition, but you could then have a 10 year sentence for someone who holds a nonregistered, nonchecked out gun.

You know what, nevermind, that plan would never work. Maybe when you are born, you should get a gun and that is the only gun you can have the rest of your life.

I don't think anyone under 21 should be able to buy a gun. I wouldn't trust myself to own a firearm. I can use them, but it's probably not a good idea to put one in my hands and let me loose. The cat population in the unlucky city would plummet....

As far as gun ownership among adults, banning guns altogether don't make much sense. So it's illegal to own a gun. If you're intent on committing murder or robbing someplace, what's one more charge on you if you get caught? And if you don't get caught, then you haven't lost anything by illegally procurring a gun. So the criminals own the guns and Citizen Joe has very little protection of his own. If said criminal knows or suspects that Citizen Joe and Citizen Joe's neighbor own guns, he's much less likely to hassle their neighborhood. Kennesaw Georgia instituted a mandatory gun law requiring all households to own at least one gun. Crime rate dropped like a stone. I'm not saying this is the way to go, but it's something to keep in mind.

As far as teaching kids about guns we could always, you know, let parents decided for themselves raise their own kids accordingly and deal with the consequences of their parenting.

Guns are good, not having guns is, well, not so good, I can't own a gun... yet, but plan too once I move into my own house, or whatever passes for my living quarters when I move out. To those against guns I ask why, if you have a reason, a good reason, not just because or MMM or HCI statistics, real statistics, not polls or other things like that, STATISTICS. I also challenge you to move to the inner city, then put a sign in your yard, or on you balcony, or your door, you get the idea right, the sign would say "no guns here, with a picture for the illiterate criminals, then you can tell us how soon you get robbed after moving in.

Because I don't want everyone taking ourselves too seriously...

US Gun Statistics
Various Sources
2-2-5

(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

(Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services)

Guns
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. Yes, that is 80 million.
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. Not everyone has a gun but almost everyone in the US has at least one doctor. I'm not even going to tell you about lawyers because most of you would go into shock, panic and seek medical attention.

Automatic weapons are regulated in this country, you need a federal background check, a state license and an inspected safe to own an automatic weapon and several states do not permit them

now semi-automatic weapons are a different story

You can't cure stupidity but you can take guns away from stupid people. No reason to own one unless you are running form the mob. Too many kids getting in trouble and worse. Keep them out of schools please. I teach and i always manage to piss off at least one student every day. Some of these students do not have parents who watch over them or teach them the right way to deal with anger. Add a handgun laying around in Grandpa's closet and this is a recipe for disaster. School should be the one place of safety for kids.

Then YOU should have a gun.

nope, i don't think a child under 18 at oldest, 16 at youngest, should have unsupervised access to a fire arm...

your kid likes to go hunting? go with him

your kid likes to shoot skeet? go with her

i've had two friends shot and killed, one was 14 shot by a 17 year old friend with a .357 in the face, the other was 17 shot by his 13 year old cousin with a .22 in the chest (direct shot to the heart, eh bled to death in a couple of minutes or less)...no child should EVER have unsupervised access to a fire arm

I would be finding new friends. Your current ones are morons.

Then YOU should have a gun.

Might quiet some of the little turds down. :)